[Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)]

Which LBS Stage do you think you are mostly at now? (pick main one)

Denial (shock, confusion)

1 (1.7%)

Bargaining (trying to figure out why, planning, adjusting)

1 (1.7%)

Anger (fear, resentment)

3 (5.1%)

Depression (despair, exhaustion)

13 (22%)

Acceptance (detachment, calm, control)

33 (55.9%)

Renewal

8 (13.6%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: October 27, 2017, 04:41:15 AM

[MyBrainIsBroken]

There are some of us who still deeply love our spouses....so how does that work in a new relationship?

This question really sums up my problem. Any new relationship would be a sham, just like the MLC relationships.

This discussion has been interesting but I'd like to know when we're going to get back to Treasur's problem solving technique.

OK. Step 2...now we describe the problem as factually as we can.
The problem is that I still experience overwhelming pain related to my wife's BD

This problem of mine hasn't gone away and I think I've ruled out replacing my wife with somebody else as a potential solution. That may work well for some people but some of us, including me, aren't wired that way.

Now what Treasur? I hope I don't sound needy if I ask what is step 3?

[Anjae]

There are some of us who still deeply love our spouses....so how does that work in a new relationship?

I don't know. But it seems to work for some, that still deeply love their spouse and are in a new relationship.


This question really sums up my problem. Any new relationship would be a sham, just like the MLC relationships.

This discussion has been interesting but I'd like to know when we're going to get back to Treasur's problem solving technique.

The problem is that I still experience overwhelming pain related to my wife's BD

But, in a few years, things may change. Or may not, but I hope they will. Keep feeling overwhelming pain for years on end is not a good thing.

Being unable to use our funcional arm for 6 months or longer is almost impossible if one is alone.

For me the thing become that I love being alone too much. It is not a good thing. Humans are meant to be paired and I would like a new relationship.

[Mitzpah]

Interesting...

Some days I feel that I have the weight of the world on my shoulders in terms of problems and I apply my individual technique of facing it and solving (or at least putting some effort in that direction) what I can, letting go of what I can't.

Most of my problems are practical, however, I hear you all about the problems we face as we age and have to go at life alone. My super independent mother is finding things VERY difficult without my father.
It is true that we live in a paired society and she finds herself having to rely on me or my brothers for assistance in varied areas. On my part, I find it difficult to shoulder her dependency in addition to my own issues of being alone for everything.

Letting go - I guess it is different for everyone, for me, it is intentionally letting it go to God, admitting that there is nothing I can do, remembering that God sees me and He loves me.

I never agreed to this and I do not like the situation I was left in...totally against my will. I continue to miss what I wanted in life, a family, to be loved by my husband, to grow old together and to continue to live our lives with one another.

This is one of the things I am constantly giving up to God and His will - I don't see any way to fix it myself and I am not open to another relationship.

So, I guess I don't have any problems, right?

I am not bitter, nor do I have time to wallow, I am too busy! The longing for a restored relationship is still there as well as the loneliness. I can't consider it a 'problem' because there is no solving in sight.

Just my rambling thoughts on this acceptance thing

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I can't consider it a 'problem' because there is no solving in sight.

I'm working on attachment with my therapist. Some children, myself included, grow up in an environment where they are unable to form a secure attachment with an adult caretaker. There are several kinds of insecure attachments. The kind I believe that I developed is called disorganized attachment.

A child with a secure attachment turns to an adult caretaker for comforting and reassurance when they're upset, scared, or hurt. A child with a disorganized attachment has the same instinctual need to turn to an adult caretaker but the situation is complicated by the fact that the adult caretaker is the one who is upsetting, scaring, and/or hurting them. These children often freeze in stressful situations because the person they would normally turn to is often the source of their distress. This is referred to as the unsolvable problem.

My therapist told me I'm in a situation that should seem very familiar to me because the situation with my wife is the same one I grew up with, where the person I love is the person who is hurting me. This is the same situation all LBSes face. The unsolvable problem.

My primary stress response is not fight or flight, it's freeze. That's where I'm at now. Am I standing or am I freezing? Or am I standing because I'm freezing? Or am I freezing because I'm standing? It makes no difference. The end result is the same. I'm back to dealing with the unsolvable problem.

This brings up the question how did I solve the unsolvable problem from my childhood? The answer is that I grew up, met and married my wife, and formed a secure attachment with her, which is called an earned secure attachment. I finally found somebody who I could always count on to be there for me. My therapist thinks that is why I'm having such a hard time coping with my wife's MLC. Because it takes me all the way back to my dysfunctional childhood.

[Treasur]

OK. Step 2...now we describe the problem as factually as we can. How often does it happen? What are you doing or not doing when it is happening? What else happens? What else? Who notices?

Brain, you and me are playing - anyone else?

Right, my problem..... how to build a different life when I liked a lot of the old one.

How often does it happen? Every day but for shorter periods of time now.
What am I doing/not doing? Spending time dealing with the left-over rubble of my old life, paperwork and possessions. Spending time on this board. Reading things about MLC, depression, infidelity, trauma. Not spending time with old or new friends, so still hiding away a bit. Not focusing on my business. Not making concrete plans or commitments for more than about a month ahead. Still avoiding some things that need action or decisions.
What else happens? I still only sleep in short bursts and wake up very early. I don't eat much and never cook. I still have conversations in my head with my H sometimes. I talk about him/the D to mutual friends more than I talk about my own life. The house is a mess, and I no longer have a daily routine. I am struggling to stop smoking. I walk a lot. I run sometimes. I make plans but often cancel or change them. I still cry sometimes. I read a lot, but don't watch tv. I no longer try to influence my H. I don't snoop and I don't expect much of him and choose limited contact with him.
Who notices? My day-to-day life is pretty invisible to anyone else. My friends notice if I talk about my H. My friends notice if I stop returning their calls or go quiet for a few days. My friends who live near me notice if I am thinner or seem anxious or am smoking more. My L and estate agent notice when I am slow to respond. My work contacts notice that I seem to be unavailable and too busy to meet them. The lady in the local supermarket (who suffered from depression herself) notices if I seem cheerful or down when I go in most days to buy milk, cat food and cigarettes. Oh, and my cat notices that he is not getting as much attention as he used to.

Let's see if anyone else joins us on Step 2 in the next couple of days, Brain? Step 3 will be about picking some things to stop, start and continue, small actions that focus on the behaviours associated with the problem

[Treasur]

Some of these really interesting discussions, and the different perspectives (and entirely legitimate differences in POV), seem to be to sit at the nub of both Acceptance and Renewal.

Ignoring MLC for a moment (and how nice it is to do that  ), put simply, life threw us a massive pie in the face. Because the pie happened to involve our spouse, that pie also shook the foundations of huge parts of our life - tangible things like money, other relationships like our children, our mental and physical health, our emotions, our beliefs about the past, our current priorities and our plans for the future. It is hard to pick a bit of my life which is untouched by this Huge Pie.

Acceptance is a series of personal steps in how we see the reality of the Pie, what we think it means and how we decide to scrape the mess off our faces. It is probably about our control, and putting a small gap between us as a person and the effects of the Huge Pie, between who we are and what has happened in to our life. So, things like 'letting go' will mean different things to different people and they might evolve over time too, either because our perspective on the Pie changes or because the impact of the Pie does.

Renewal is probably a post-Pie thing. We don't deny the Pie or the effects or how hard it was to scrape the bits off. Now, we're trying to decide what to try to clean, repair, throw away or create. And working out what we need internally and externally to do that.

I've found some of these 'life lessons' quite thought-provoking - what does Control, Detachment, Love, Forgiveness etc mean for me in a post-Pie life http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=6.0. And how can I use that to build my own bridge to Renewal, irregardless of what the Pie is doing or if there are more Pies coming my way...

[Mortesbride]

This is a slightly bigger post but a lot of what you guys were saying got my thoughts flowing so here they go.

I was re reading these posts when I had said I need to stop reaching out to him when I am sad.

I am feeling low today, and the urge is to reach out to him. If he was here I would want to walk over and just cuddle him. Not because he has been nice to me lately, or anything, that is just 14 years talking I guess.

For some reason when I am sad I don't know how to fix it without him. That is clearly a problem. I don't know what that problem is but it is horrible. I don't know how to self soothe myself. All I want is to sit on the couch and be held by him. The thought that may never happen again is absolutely terrifying to me.

I just want him to tell me he loves me and that may never happen again. I loved my family, I loved our marriage, and it is all just gone. But I also know I had a fantasy of him in my head. Our relationship was lop sided from the start. I was all the responsibility, the future thinker, the planner, the fixer, and pursuer. He was here for the fun, and the positive stuff, but he left the grown up stuff, decisions, and difficult emotional stuff to me. He would always try to please others first, even if that meant upsetting me. I was expendable because he knew I would love him anyway. And he was right. But at the same time...I know that isn't healthy. But my heart doesn't care, it just wants that back, because it is the only happiness I have known.

I just cry all the time, and then get random spurts of denial or something when I think ''It will be okay, we will make it'', and then I just get a horrible images of him with OW or something and I ended up angry or crying again. It never stops. I am so exhausted.

I then read into everything. If he doesn't answer the phone he must be out with OW, and I get upset, when reality is he could just be sitting in his room at his mums house. Most of the time I can control these impulses to get angry, or text, or call. But this weekend I couldn't. I was upset about something and over reacted and its pure panic.

I feel alone in the dark, trying to piece together my tear stained puzzle, before he breaks the pieces even further.


Nah your post was spot on. I don't know if I love him, or just how I feel around him. Like many people here I grew up without knowing true unconditional love. I do not feel anyone has truly loved me, and I was always chasing and trying to prove myself worthy of it. I don't understand why people just throw others away like they are nothing, just because it doesn't suit them. It is such a cruel thing to do, but I do the opposite.

I love people I KNOW are flawed, because I have only ever known flawed people. And I am not referring to the fact that everyone is a little flawed. I am talking I have a bi polar hypochondriac mother...who knows what I am going through, calls me up to tell me about her new bumper sticker on her car, and never even ask about how I am doing. My father was a womanising cheater, physically angry and abuse, no one could live up to his expectations, and vary likely had NPD. Me and my sister are not close, because after our upbringing we came out very very different. She is hostile, angry, cruel, and does not care for anyone unless she can get something from them. She is convinced everything bad about our life was my fault, even though I am only 1.5 years older than she is.

So you see I do not know what a 'normal' person is. I do not know how I could even handle or interact with one, I think maybe the people I find 'boring' are actual the normal ones? I have learned to adjust myself to interact with the person in front of me, I do not acknowledge myself or my needs. I am here for others, and that makes me happy. But I know that isn't how it should be.

I know in my core I value honesty, loyalty, bravery, truth, family, and unconditional love. I have an amazing sense of adventure, and I want to try new things or go new places, and see things in the world. Nothing of material value gives me pleasure, I enjoy the moments, the experiences. I am also very funny, and can make light of a situation that really isn't funny just to break the tension. I can feel when another person is in pain, and when they aren't being honest.

But I don't know how to cope with being alone. It is a loneliness that is terribly painful, a silence that can not be filled, an ache I don't know how to soothe. And when I don't feel this, when I am with him and this goes away, I think that is love.

But equally I look around me at other men, but they just aren’t right. They aren’t as handsome, or as funny, or grab my attention. It feels like they have no substance. I do not know every laugh they have, or joke, or what makes them smile. We could be in a crowded shopping centre and I would know when my husband was walking up behind me, from his pace or the way he breathes.. or something. I never had to turn around to know it was him, even if I was not expecting him. We have the same exact thought, and will turn to laugh at something we find funny, without having to say anything. So I know that what I feel isn't just about filling the void with anyone. I need to fill the void, but I only want him?! I don’t know if that is my deep loyalty streak, if that is from 'love', or if it is just unhealthy attachment.

Mybrainisbroken, what you said on attachment is very interesting. Given my dynamic and my wiring I too think I must have a disorganised attachment and I will be looking into that.

[Treasur]

Ok, Bride, so if you had to nail the biggest problem right now...is it how to self-soothe? Or something else?

[Mortesbride]

Yes I suppose that would be a good first step. How to soothe my emotions without someone else.

[Treasur]

Ok Bride, then break it down into what it looks like right now. No whys and what ifs, just what and how

Step 2...now we describe the problem as factually as we can. How often does it happen? What are you doing or not doing when it is happening? What else happens? What else? Who notices?