[Anjae]

I am wondering why you noticed it on other sites but not on HS, Absolutely Fabulous.

We always say the choice is up to the LBS. RCR has it in her articles. There are many here who have made their choice.

Wonder if that is what you have on your site/business. Anyway, either you didn't pay enough attention to what has always been written on HS, or, for some reason, you decided to start a fuss.

As to the LBS gets to decide, they have always gotten to decide, IMO. Whether the MLCER comes back, or not. True, as a newbie we can't see it, we think our lives have been destroyed forever, but the destruction is only temporary. We all rise like a phoenix from the ashes, some take longer than others, but it happens IF WE CHOOSE.

This. And, like I mentioned above, that has always been said on HS.

AF, You were not clear on your first post that you were refering to MLCers that return, nor it it clear on the thread title. However, regardless, the choice is always up to the LBS.

As xyzcf said, anyone can post on a HS thread. Discussion are exactly that, discussion threads.

I do, however, agree that, some issues may be not seen the same way by a newbies or early timer and by a mid or long timer.

It is false that a MLCer returns when the LBS has found someone new. We have several LBS in new relationships, even marriages, and their MCLer has not returned. I have had a boyfriend. Mr J didn't return. Before anyone asks or it becomes a point of arguments, I didn't had the boyfriend to try to make Mr. J return. I may, or may not, have a new boyfriend in the future, but that, again, will not be to try to make Mr J return.

What is also false is that a MLCer returs when the LBS is healed, not angry and has done the work on themselves. Barbie's husband returned when she was none of those things - Barbie threads are very open on the matter. Mamma's Bear husband returned when she was far from healed, and, that I recall (it was years ago), she hadn't worked on hersrlf at all. We have no shortage of LBS who have done tons of work on themselves and their MLCer is still deep in crisis.

IN YOUR THREAD IT NEVER SOUNDED LIKE YOUR H WAS ASKING TO COME HOME. HE JUST HAPPENED TO BE AROUND.

Not all MLCers ask to come home. Some are always around, some never leave. And most don't exactly ask "can I come home".

HONESTLY, I DONT THINK THERE IS ANYTHING TO BE DISCUSSED ON THIS THREAD. IF THE MLCER ASKS TO COME HOME ,DONT WE ALL KNOW THAT WOULD BE OUR DECISION ? !!!!!!

Maybe not. But, as indicated by the icon, this is a discussion thread.

18 months is still a newbie.

As for non standing sites, there are many of us here who are not standing. I am not standing. I never was. However, there are still a million issues that a spouse MLC brings, even for those like myself that have a MLCer who, after over a decade, is still in Replay, that require the support of people who understand.

So far, HS is the only site I have liked enough to join and I feel at ease here.

Wonder why HS brings you down, Tyks. It does not bring me, Ready2, Learning, Nah, In It, and several other non-standers down. The fact we are not standing also doen't bring the standers down.

[Ready2Transform]

Mamma's Bear husband returned when she was far from healed, and, that I recall (it was years ago), she hadn't worked on hersrlf at all. We have no shortage of LBS who have done tons of work on themselves and their MLCer is still deep in crisis.

I am friends with Mamma Bear outside of HS, and I don't know if this perception comes from our open talk about her H's OW (back in those days, we talked about the OW in general far more) or her ability to view her situation with a sense of humor. But rest assured, MB was a model stander, and as a person stronger than I'll ever be. She did her mirror work and fought the good fight. I agree with what you're saying that there's no 'formula' for how to be the perfect stander that assures a return, but I wanted to clarify about MB.

[cplnorton]

Heck, I will jump in.  This is my thoughts at roughly a year in.

When I first joined this forum, all I wanted to hear was she would be back.  I wanted to hear that she still loved me and this MLC madness was not her fault and she was not in control of her actions.     

Basically I was in denial.  I thought I had a closer connection with my wife than all the rest of you.  All this talk that MLC takes years, there is no way that can happen to me.  This is temporary.  Mine will be back in a few months, because she loves me.  And she can't live without me.  Basically I thought my case was special.  IT WASNT. 

But then as time passed I started to realize it's all wishful thinking and I accepted it.  I accepted I'm not different than the rest of you.  I've accepted this is HER fault, and even though MLC made it worse.  She still was probably a sh@tty person at her core, and I only saw in her what I wanted to see.  I think now these people are flawed and broken, and it just comes out at midlife because they can't deal with it anymore. 

I think it will be years before she ever wanted to come back.  And when she does want to come back, which I do believe she will try years from now, she will be completely broken and not the person I once loved.   I think if I wait for her, I will wait years for her, and when she does come back broken.  I will probably spend additional years again trying to fix her.  And in that time I will probably be bomb dropped several more times and I will see my kids hurt over and over as well.   

I ended my stand about 2 months ago because I came to the conclusion all I was doing was enabling her bad behavior.  Before I ended my stand, she really did not call, and did not text me.  She didn't even really respond to texts I sent her.  She made me chase her and loved every second of the attention, as she played a victim to her white trash OM.  The second I quit and she tried a few anchor checks and didn't get a response.  She picked up on it andstarted to chase me. And you know what, it's driving her crazy.  And I'm seeing much more moments of clarity.  Because I was her safety net so she woudln't fall.  But she knows that is gone now.  And she has to deal with all her turmoil.  Not me.   

But in my experience the longer it takes you to reach this thinking, I think the longer your MLC will be in the tunnel.  What is their incentive to get out of the tunnel if they know you will always be there to pick them back up?  And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom.  I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior. 

I mean these people act like kids right, or even teenagers?  How would you treat your kid or teenager if they did this to you? 

If I could go back one year and tell myself one thing on how to handle this, this is what I would tell myself.

1) Take the Divorce as fast as you can.  Take it while they still feel guilty and they are in the fog.  Then take as much as you can, because you have one shot at this, and your home and in some cases, Custody, is at stake.  Don't drag it out, don't try to prolong it.  You can always get remarried if you want to someday.  But I see so many try to stop the divorce and later regret it, because the MLC wakes up enough that they go after the stuff they would have gave you before. 

Plus the Divorce doesn't change anything in the mind of MLC.  They still act the exact same as they did before the divorce papers were signed.  I didn't notice any difference with mine. 

Basically move on with your life, and forget about them.  Live like they aren't coming back.  Because if you live like they will come back someday, you will be stuck, and I guarantee you will only make this last longer, and yourself even more miserable. 

[Anjae]

I can only go from what LBS write on HS.

It comes a bit from the talk about her husband's OW, but also from lots of what Mamma Bear posted about herself/her beaviour/her interactions with her husband.

Her husband had a lot of issues, and I do not recall her doing much work on herself, more just keeping being her funny self and going with the flow. Which may even be a great away of going about this whole mess.

In fact, I am not even that sure that a lot of work on ourselves is going to be of much use. Not saying we shouldn't do some, but, it may make more sense to just keep living, like Mamma Bear did.

We end up becoming so worried with the whole work on yourself that we may forget to live and have fun.

I think it is important to highlight that there really isn't a one size fit all, no formula to be the perfect stander, or non stander, and what may work great for one person/couple may be a disaster for another.

[Searching4Answers]

Thanks Anjae and R2T - I have often wondered how Mamma Bear was. I was pretty sure that her H returned but I never her saw come back here with an update.

[xyzcf]

cplnorton:

And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom.  I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior.

It is their crisis and I am 100% convinced that there is nothing that we say or do that can change their crisis.

We don't stop them from hitting rock bottom. Some are able to sustain their constant running and replay behavior for several years and never crash.

Many long time LBSers have very little contact with their MLCer. There are hardly any LBSers from when this site started in 2010 who continue to post so you do not know what they are doing in their lives or their interactions with their MLCer.

I am not sure what you think long time LBSers are doing to enable the MLC in their spouses. I have not lived on the same continent as my husband since 2009. I have very limited contact with him, mainly having contact with our daughter for events such as when she graduated and was married. I have nothing at all to do with his life.

Yet I am standing for our marriage because it is not about how long it takes or whether or not he returns....it is my belief of what God intended when we were married 40 years ago.

One off the common phrases that we tell LBSers is to live as though they are never coming back. It may take a while for LBSers to get over the trauma and grief of this sudden and unexpected end of their marriages, but in their own time, they will. We do not "make" their crisis last longer. That just is not how this works.

It is also advised not to pursue the MLC and to get on with your life. That has always been the message of HS since I became a member in 2010.

[cplnorton]

I have to give a personal shout out to Absolutely Fabulous.  Because she changed my whole outlook on this.

She reached out to me several months back when I was lost and checks on me almost daily.

To be honest, like several on this post, I didn't want to hear what she had to say.  Because it was hard to hear.  because all I wanted anyone to say to me was that my ex wife will be back. 

Absolutely Fabulous and I started to talk and she slowly started to tell me a few things I didn't want to hear.  And to her credit she did it in the best way possible.  She watched for sings that I was ready and she did it subtle at first, but give me some kicks when I needed it.  And got me to start thinking.  And I realized she was right.

I see many on this forum that were like me.  I see many that are stuck.  They aren't really living.  They are living in a shadow of what their old life was.  In the meantime they are missing out so much on life.  And what got me thinking was, as the MLC'er works their way out of the tunnel, why would they even want to come back to the LBS if we are just as weak as they are?

Basically think about what you are attracted to?  Are you attracted to weak, pathetic, and sad?  Or are you attracted to, strong, independent, intelligent, and confident?

It's all human nature.  And Absolutely Fabulous really got me to see this.  I honestly think if she didn't, I might have been one of those that were stuck.

So to me, even though she said some things I didn't want to hear early on.  I'm so glad I listened and thought about what she had to say.  Because it helped me to move on.  And a side effect of this is.  My MLC is chasing me now.  Where she wasn't before.   

I think that is all Absolutely Fabulous is doing here.  She saying some things that are hard for some on this post to hear, because many are like I was,  in denial.  They still only want to hear their MLC will come back.  Which is ok.  It really is.  We all process this differently. 

But the sooner you can get to fully detached, and moving on with your life, and finding new happiness.  I think you will be so much better off.  I think we sometimes do a real disservice by telling new people on the forum to be the beacon of light for the MLC to come home to.  I think we should be creating a beacon of light for ourselves and not worry what happens to them.   

What do they always say about love.  If you love something, let it go, and if it doesn't return it wasn't your's to begin with? 

I think you have to fully and completely let them go, and the sooner you get there, the better. 

I honestly agree with Absolutely Fabulous on this.  I think all she is trying to do is help some people who are stuck. 

Just listen to what she is saying with an open heart, it really changed my life.  And I'm forever grateful for it.

[Anjae]

Thanks Anjae and R2T - I have often wondered how Mamma Bear was. I was pretty sure that her H returned but I never her saw come back here with an update.

You're welcome.

She did, long ago. But said she wouldn't be more around since she wanted to focus on her/their life.

How does one enable someone one does not see and, in many cases, have not seen in years? No idea.

On the other hand, some people have a live-in, or always around MLCer and their MLCer hits rock bottom and returns, that was Mamma Bear case. She never cut contact with her husband.

Therefore, doing one thing may work with one person, but not with another.

[Tyks]

Angae, 18 months is not a newbie. HS keeps me stuck because it continually reminds me of the pain of bd and the first year of turmoil. I enjoy reading certain posters with my morning coffee but there has never really been a lot of support for nonstanders. It is like we have the plague or  are devil's children bc we do not allow our self respecf to be trashed.

Some people tell us to live like they are not coming back ... but does that not involve moving on in all aspects of our lives? We are supposed to get a life and do our mirror work ... but some think that something is wrong with us as soon as we announce we are not standing.

I think this forum should be broken up into two parts. Standers/reconciliations and nonstanding/moving on bc no matter where we are in this journey we still need support. I have met some amazing people here and am grateful everyday for the support I received as a "newbie" but now I, like many others, need a different kind of supoort. I need the atta girl for buying my own house or the you go girl if I have a date etc. I am sure there are many more who would like to see this happen

[cplnorton]

cplnorton:

And I think a lot of the people on this forum don't ever really let them hit rock bottom.  I see people talking on here that have been in this for 5 or 10 years and it sounds like they almost enable the MLC to continue their behavior.

It is their crisis and I am 100% convinced that there is nothing that we say or do that can change their crisis.

We don't stop them from hitting rock bottom. Some are able to sustain their constant running and replay behavior for several years and never crash.

Many long time LBSers have very little contact with their MLCer. There are hardly any LBSers from when this site started in 2010 who continue to post so you do not know what they are doing in their lives or their interactions with their MLCer.

I am not sure what you think long time LBSers are doing to enable the MLC in their spouses. I have not lived on the same continent as my husband since 2009. I have very limited contact with him, mainly having contact with our daughter for events such as when she graduated and was married. I have nothing at all to do with his life.

Yet I am standing for our marriage because it is not about how long it takes or whether or not he returns....it is my belief of what God intended when we were married 40 years ago.

One off the common phrases that we tell LBSers is to live as though they are never coming back. It may take a while for LBSers to get over the trauma and grief of this sudden and unexpected end of their marriages, but in their own time, they will. We do not "make" their crisis last longer. That just is not how this works.

It is also advised not to pursue the MLC and to get on with your life. That has always been the message of HS since I became a member in 2010.

I think it's very simple.  He knows you are waiting for him.  Your MLC knows he can give you a call tomorrow and you will take him back.  That is enabling to him.  Because he knows no matter how bad he acts, you are there for him. 

As a man when I used to date in high school.  And I was childish and immature, I had a girl that I didn't really care for.  But I knew she really liked me.  And I could have done anything to her and she would have always taken me back.  I didn't choose her first, but in a pinch when I had no one else, I knew I could call her and she would be there in a second.

She was my backup.  I think many woman LBS on this page are backups, when all else fails for the MLC, they are old reliable and the MLC knows this.  Even though you spent all those years married to them.  They have regressed back to the immature a##hole I was back as a teenager, and are probably thinking the same way I did back then.

But Don't be a backup.  Don't let your MLC treat you like a backup.  He will never respect you until you respect yourself enough to not tolerate that behavior.

My one backup I had as a teenager,  finally got fed up with my stupid sh@t and not only found someone else, but she told me exactly what she thought of me when she did.  And she told me as confident as she could have.

And you know what, it made me realize how special she was.  And I didn't think of her as a backup anymore.  In fact it really made me sort of want her.  lol  As messed up as that childish thinking it is.  I doubt our MLC think much different.

I don't know your situation, but I know how men think.  Especially immature men that think a woman will do anything for him.   Maybe start to think about how he perceives you in this.  Just a thought you know?