[Yo]

Hola!
Starting a new thread! H in Replay still after a little bit more than 3 years and me struggling to set limits...

My last thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=11129.0

After two years of not knowing anything I had news about OW in a very ugly way and directly from her

I don't know if they are together or this was an act of insecurity but that is not what I worry about the most
My concern is how to set limits because he is acting like always when we had a fight, angry two days and after that he comes to my house like everything is ok and like if he has rights over me

Today he called D7 and told her he will come to see her, "to my house" the one that he doesn't pay or care about!
 when he came I opened the door and called D7, then I went upstairs to left them alone but he started to say in a very rude way that I was being childish, again D7 in the middle
I came downstairs and stay to make D7 feel less anguish and he stopped saying things

When he left I called him to say that he doesn't have the right to come to my house and act like that and less in front of D7 but I realized that it was pointless, his attitude was so arrogant! I believe like right now he really thinks he has the right and he is right!

Is not just like he doesn't want to be with me and prefers to be with OW or acting like a teenager
is like he needs me around to be hurting me

I haven't had the guts to tell him to stop coming and I would like to
And, I don't know if I would like to say that just to set limits or deep inside me I am expecting a positive reaction (to be honest)

I feel like we went backwards, both of us!
For several months he was showing a little bit of consciousness and I was doing good with detatchment and now... uugh
Definitely backwards and bad!

[Yo]

Hola!

OW keeps trying to talk to me, today she called me from another phone number, when I answered she started to explain that she wasn't the person that did all the charade to fool me and send the picture with H, I told her that I didn't have anything to talk to her and she should stop calling me, she told me that she was doing it to have a closure, like if I care!
I just hang off the phone

She kept calling and calling so I took a screenshot of the calls (five!) and sent it to H and asked him to please tell her to stop,
H told me that he'll do something about it

It took around 10 minutes and he called me back and told me that she'll never call or contact me again
He told me that he was very sorry for putting me in that situation and that he told her to stop trying to hurt me because he had hurt me enough so he would do anything to stop someone else do that to me, specially her

I told him that I appreciated to have talked to her but I appreciated even more the apologies because that was something that I needed from him
He cried

Something funny that happened is that when they were dating, 2 and a half years ago, someone called to our business (I thought it was her) and H ask to our worker if the voice was soft so I always thought she had a sweet voice and it was something that bugged me all this time (silly! I know) today when I finally heard her voice, I realized that she is not sweet, she is not better than me, not even near, she is not nice, and definitely not someone that I should waist my time or energy with
She said that she wanted a closure but she gave me one!
I felt relieved!

[Ready2Transform]

Some things are really a blessing in disguise, Yo. The "affair down" description is not a myth, and usually time is our friend in showing us. You handled it all so well, and I'm glad you got what sounds like a sincere apology from your H as well. Big hugs! It's an emotional rollercoaster to deal with!

[Limboland2018]

She wasn’t looking for closure. She was trying to feed off and perhaps make you feel insecure or gather information on you and your relationship with your Ex. A delusional and self serving woman. That type of person loves sucking goodness out of kind people and drawing them into their toxic web. So glad you rejected the calls. The levels these people will sink to remain involved in drama and destruction is incredible.

[UrsaMajor]

I have to agree with Limbo here... OW wasn't looking for "closure" but rather (IMHO) it was a sort of "anchor check" in reverse to see if you were still in play and had any "influence" over your Mid-Lifer.... When he told her to stop, she realized that you ARE still in play and that she is likely on the loosing side of the fence... so all of HER insecurities (and believe me, there are LOTS of them) came to the surface...

She really does need to go take a long walk off of a short pier and disappear...

And H needs to get his head out of his .... fog.... and quit being a Richard Cranium....

[Treasur]

She wasn’t looking for closure. She was trying to feed off and perhaps make you feel insecure or gather information on you and your relationship with your Ex. A delusional and self serving woman. That type of person loves sucking goodness out of kind people and drawing them into their toxic web. So glad you rejected the calls. The levels these people will sink to remain involved in drama and destruction is incredible.

This ^^^^
It is pretty textbook behaviour for ow types.  .....and not your circus, of course, as you said. She was working to her own agenda which was almost certainly to provoke some kind of reaction or contact from your h.....there is a reason why they call this stuff a 'drama triangle' 
All you can do....as you have tried to do....is remove yourself from the triangle. And if she continues to try to contact you (and she may) then you may need to take further legal steps without asking your h for 'help' like a TRO or a legal letter saying that this will be your next step.

[Yo]

Thanks a lot friends! I found useful every word that you wrote, thank you very much!
I wrote a reminder to me of each of your advices...

Ready2= rollercoaster (always while in MLC)
Limboland= ow= toxic web
UrsaM (I had to look what Richard Cranium is) 😄 you always make me laugh and that is a must while we are LBS s! I really would like her to disappear!
Treasur= not my circus!!!!

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it

[UrsaMajor]

UrsaM (I had to look what Richard Cranium is) 😄 you always make me laugh and that is a must while we are LBS s! I really would like her to disappear!

Google is your friend <snort>

[Yo]

Yes! Google and Alexa helped 🤓😄

[Yo]

Hola!!!

I am reading some of your posts, is good to be back!
With online school the work has been tripled, my students are struggling with emotional issues after Covid and anyway we have to keep covering the program, I am exhausted but blessed with health and a job

Update:
Apparently OW's charade worked well but not for her...
H started therapy on his own and he hasn't missed his appointments (I didn't ask to, his idea!)
I am being cautious and don't talk at all about it but, I really would like to know 🤭
Some times he looks very happy and others is like he is here but his mind in another place, but since that day he has been calm and nice
Finally he sold his sporty motorcycle and bought an "old people's bike" not a Harley but an Indian and I am really, really happy about it
It is very significant for me! He actually cried, because he is old, he said, but he said that he was ready for it! We'll see...

[UrsaMajor]

[Yo]

Hola!
I was very happy about H going to therapy and the motorcycle change but...
Update
H sold his truck, the one that he used to do home service (pick pets up and medical consultation) and bought a new Camaro
Do I have to explain more?...
His D is going to University in August and she needed a small car, the situation is difficult as almost everywhere around the world, 30 % of the incomes were home service, and I can keep going...

Just when I thought that he were going out of Replay...
My fault to have expectations I know, but it was a low blow anyway

The first thing that crossed my mind was a clear picture of him and OW in the car and then I realized how bad it was to our business as well

I told him that I was done, and I really would like to
but the truth is that I keep suffering about his behavior, caring about him and hoping

He has been mad at me since last Saturday because I told him I was done with him and besides that, he is acting like I am the one that is crazy because I don't understand his needs and don't want to have the relation that he wants with him (I don't even know what kind of relationship) of course he again, act like a monster saying tons of crap

I don't know if he was trying to come out of Replay and then went back or he never left that stage
The point is that I would like to have the courage to move on and stop being a stander

[Songanddance]

Hi Yo - remember replay takes a long time and so your expectations might have led you to believe that his latest actions were signs he was coming out and going into the next phase. 

MLC is not linear - it is loops and circles until the MLCer chooses to break the cycle and then the next phase is a series of loops and circles.

Sorry to say this but 3 yrs in and still with OW - he is still in replay - he may be cycling in and out of it but if she's in play so is he.

Are you done?  Well and truly done? Or are you desperate not to have any more expectations so that saying "You're done" is a way of telling yourself off because you had expectations and it's easier to think you're done because it will prevent you from having expectations.

When you're done - there is no doubt because you know that you know that you know you are done.

H will of course flounder that you have said you're done because his anchor is rocking.   However try distancing yourself even more now so that you can detach those pesky expectations from emerging.  Then decide if you are done.

[Yo]

Thank you Songanddance!
 I don't really know if I am done, you are right!
I don't know if he is with OW, he says he is not (hard to believe) but that doesn't change the fact that he is still in Replay
So I am trying to distancing as you say, for the first time I haven't answer his calls in the last couple of days, I hope to be strong enough to keep being like that
Thank you very much again

[barbiedoll]

I truly wonder why it is so difficult to get to a place called " done".  I wonder that for all of us LBS . I have seen almost every LBS including Song, Courage and most especially me .. Barbiedoll. I have been to "done" fully , completely and utterly, only to return to the possibility this marriage may well work out.  Why do we do that?   I know the reasons for myself ( at least most of them) but I do wonder what others think this is about.  Many of these MLCer's deserve "done" and that is a reality and yet we do not stay in that done place.   I see you YO ...going back and forth. Its OK , I get it . I have done the same . Its painful and I wonder what else we could be doing with these years that would give us personal happiness, contentment and freedom from this horrible passenger seat of a mlcer .

[Yo]

I don't know why neither Barbiedoll! Maybe because we were happy with them before and we think that we can have that again?, or maybe because is in our nature to be fixing broken things?
Or maybe because deep inside we haven't realized that we deserve better (that is worse)
Thanks for letting me know that you have been there too, it makes me feel not so broken 💕

[barbiedoll]

I read a post the other day that said .      " I was never broken after all!    I was just profoundly hurt and betrayed".       I think there is much truth in this, even though we feel so shattered.   We reacted to betrayal like humans do.   We are not so much broken as we are broken hearted. We are normal after all.

[Yo]

Loved it! Thanks ❤

[Limboland2018]

Maybe we go back and forth because we are addicted to the drama? Just a thought.

[9393roo]

Hi Yo,

I might be the poster child for showing how non lineal MLC really is.  I used to think my H was in one place when he was actually in quite another, as I would find out later.  Now my mindset is he is somewhere in MLC, not sure where, not sure what’s coming next, but he is for sure there.  I brace myself, detach and let him be where he is.  Those darn expectations creep in and start to take over.  I’ve been there many times. 

I disagree about being addicted to drama.  I think the opposite, we want calm so badly that we look past many red flags that are still waving.  In the calm moments the last few years is where i see my best growth. 

I too have been “done” so many times.  This is my red flag that I need to detach again.  Two steps forward one step back.  The dance of the MLCer continues. 

Sending you hugs.

Roo

[Marchingforward]

I agree with Roo. All I want is peace and no drama. I think we do look for that so badly we miss the flags, or we maybe don’t see them as flags.

I also thought H was way out of replay and really he wasn’t. Moments of lucidity during that long T and G last year but in hindsight, no where near done with MLC.

I too have said “done” more times then I can count.  Who knows why I’m not truly done. As I continue to grow and strengthen, maybe there will come a day when I really am done. It’s not yet though.

[barbiedoll]

I do not feel I am someone addicted to drama whatsoever. I would like to have a "normal" partner ...not a deeply avoidant one.  Unfortunately , my husband may well say the same thing about me ...why do I have this " anxious-preoccuppied " spouse who will not leave me alone?   There is something in that dynamic that is hard to leave, even if it is the best thing to do. My observation has been that the large majority of MLC'ers are avoidant of...everything actually. That is hard to live with.  And yet we continue to stay attached somehow . this is interesting read

https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-anxious-and-avoidant-partners-find-it-hard-to-leave-one-another/

[Treasur]

I agree with Roo too....but can see that others perspective might be different.
For me, there was definitely a point when I longed for peace, sanity and kindness more than I longed for my h or my m.

[Marchingforward]

t dynamic that is hard to leave, even if it is the best thing to do. My observation has been that the large majority of MLC'ers are avoidant of...everything actually. That is hard to live with.  And yet we continue to stay attached somehow .

https://www.theschooloflife.com/thebookoflife/why-anxious-and-avoidant-partners-find-it-hard-to-leave-one-another/

I love this! I've been working on attachment wounds over the past few years. I was definitely anxious preoccupied while H is 100% avoidant. I'm happy in that I no longer respond anxiously (for the most part) with him or with others.  However, it's a long road of healing for me, and I have no idea if H will ever get to the point where he is no longer avoidant. What is most interesting to me is the "pull" of that attachment to him. The article describes it just right--it's like electric, sparks, just feels good and right.  Again, while I have been working hard to manage anxiety, and honestly I don't really ask a lot of my H when it comes to showing me affection because I know I don't actually NEED that from him, I do continue to feel that bit of "instant attraction" or whatever when we are together. I know that's a result of our deep, attachment wounds.

Another great suggestion is this podcast. It talks a lot about attachment types and ways to heal them in adults, if anyone is interested. I found is very helpful.

https://dharmapunxnyc.podbean.com/e/repairing-attachment-wounds-in-adults-a-summary-of-five-practices/

[Acorn]

Thank you for the update, Yo!

Just when I thought that he were going out of Replay...

Why do we sometimes make assumptions about what stage MLCer might be in?

I wonder if it is because we mistakenly conflate the end of MLC and a positive outcome for marriage... 

Is that why some of us stand?

Do we unconsciously insert ‘the state of marital relationship’’ in brackets next to ‘the stages in MLC’?

I asked myself these same questions in the past...

We read time and again that the issues that caused MLC has nothing to do with M, and I agree. (Marriage could have been mostly blissful or rather dysfunctional — MLC does not discriminate.)

Then, it would be prudent not to link MLCer’s resolution of his issues with a favourable marriage outcome.  I know when I weaned myself off linking the condition of our marriage to H’s crisis stages, it helped me tremendously with detachment, healing and enjoying my life again. 

As far as we are concerned, H’s resolution of crisis was a precondition for our reconciliation, not the cause of it.

Just my view...

[Treasur]

Do we unconsciously insert ‘the state of marital relationship’’ in brackets next to ‘the stages in MLC’?

I think perhaps, Acorn, most of us do. At least for a while. Or perhaps we insert 'hope that the relationship can be repaired'. Part of the cognitive dissonance of something that isn't about us or our marriage, yet that has such a profound impact on both maybe?

The simple truth gleaned from so many stories here is that in reality your relationship is usually dead in the water at BD.
And that Standing is perhaps more about a choice as to whether you are prepared to keep a door open, even a sliver, if/when they resolve their crisis. Or before the circumstances of life shut it naturally perhaps.
Rarely the message that any of us want to hear when we first come here though.

[Yo]

Wow! Interesting points of view and all of them useful, thank you all!
As always the summary is detachment! So difficult but necessary
And about focusing in stages, I was trying to analyze why some of us are too in to that and I guess that is because the first thing we saw when the light of this forum was presented to us, was a list of behaviors divided in 6 parts, where the first steps were exactly how our H or W was acting,
Anyway, definitely, this trip must not be related to a positive outcome for marriage and that, so difficult too but necessary

[Father5]

I think the other part of the thought process at least for me was that life was so good at one point. I mean truly blissful. I would literally ouch myself and ask what I did to deserve such a wonderful and fulfilling life. Kids , house , vacations and a beautiful family. I had it all. I stood at least in the beginning because I wanted that back.


   I know for me that changed over time. I stand for different reasons now. I would like my marriage back but not at the same cost it would have taken on me a year ago.

[Yo]

Same thinking Father5, thanks for sharing!

[Yo]

Hola!!!
Greetings everyone!

After the Camaro situation I have been working on detatchment a lot.

Around 3 weeks ago we have a big talk!
H had been trying to have a physical relationship with me and I was avoiding it

Finally he asked me what was happening and I answered honestly, from my heart and without fear of what would be the reaction (I guess that is part of detatchment)
I told him that I thought that if he had everything he wanted from me without a commitment from him, he would be in a comfort zone and that it would be difficult to go out from there and nothing would change

His answer was something that I have been reading here all the time and coming from a MLCer is shameful for a LBS, I mean, I should know! Not him! 😄
Long story short, he told me that since his issues have nothing to do with me, nothing that I'll do or not would change the outcome of his story...
I know! Basics!!!
Since then I took a break that I hope can turn in to long term situation,
a break from being careful with my words or actions because of what he would do or say or think,
a break of being thinking in strategies to make him come out of the crisis or to make him stay more with us

Since that day I enjoy each moment, I enjoy every day when he comes and has lunch with us, I enjoy when he kisses me or hugs me, but I enjoy too when he leaves and I can do my stuff

The communication is better and finally the three of us have fun when we are together, maybe is because I am being myself and for the moment I don't expect, or maybe because he feels free to work on what he needs, I don't know why and I don't really care... for the moment

I even think that I made a big issue with the Camaro, he works really hard and is a successful person in his profession, we have everything we need, he had always wanted that car and he deserves it! And nothing changed
So I tell him how handsome he looks driving the car and how much he deserves it
He already feels guilty for so many things and I am not going to cooperate with that

So far so good! Still standing but not expecting

[Milly]

Hola Yo! So good to hear that things are as pretty good with you. I like how you are detaching and how the distance is letting you see things about your H differently. Very interesting to hear that your H said that his issues are nothing to do with you, basically you didn't cause them. Mind you, this is quite something for a MLCer to acknowledge. Thanks for sharing this information.

We do worry so much about how to behave around them because underneath we take on the blame for the braking of the marriage. And although we definitely can always learn to be a better version of ourselves, we did not cause this disastrous BD our Hs landed on our families.

[Yo]

Hola!!!!

I am back! and is really nice to see your message Milly! it warmed my heart from the moment I saw your name!

Things are ok and pretty much as same as last time I wrote here, I am still being myself always, I am not being careful with my words (I am not rude, just not walking on egg shells anymore) and no more strategies.
we are still separated but gradually H has been increasing the time he spends with us, i don't ask or call, but just because is his responsibility to fix the relationship as he is fixing the other things in his life.

I think that I am healing pretty well, how couldn't I if life has presented me priceless lessons, like last month...
 I found out that OW's girlfriend had entered in to the business  that I am doing and I was really upset about it, I kept thinking on it and I lost my focus, at the end of the month this girl did ok and got to the level I wanted to get, and I not just didn't get it but I went a level down. I felt like the athletes that before finishing the race turn their head to see who is coming behind them and loose seconds because of it that make them loose the race. Lesson learned! I am running a race that everybody can run but I am only competing against myself.

Surprisingly H was very supportive about it and I know that this was helpful to get the best thing out of the situation
He is acting a little bit more as the wise man that he used to be, good for him!
and about me... I had to start the race all over again... but wiser!  good for me!

This Thursday is H's birthday and today he was telling me that he wanted to have dinner with his kids, D and me at my house, so I guess it is going to be fun, it has being long time since the 5 of us were together, I have seen his son sometimes but all together is another thing to celebrate! I miss the kids

So far so good! Still standing but not expecting
send you hugs

[Yo]

Hola!
Almost one year since my last post! Sometimes I came in to the site to read some of yours to remember basics to keep standing!
Keep learning from all of you wise people!
The good news are that H is reconnecting finally! He has been doing this for about a year and every day is a better day with its ups and downs.

THIS IS IMPORTANT! When MLCers reconnect,
it doesn’t mean that relationship is fixed or things are going to be as they used to be!
A lot of things happened! And people grow differently  and change.

In my case, we are not living together, we have a relationship, a very healthy one but not in the same house. He has dinner every day with D9 and me and sometimes he stays with us, we go out and spend important dates with the family or friends as a couple but not ready to be back together as we used to be. I have been growing a lot at work and he has been working a lot fixing the things that he did and loving  himself again, both of us healing!
I am really enjoying this relationship with the old? or new? H back and don’t know if we are going to come back to live together but I am not closed to the possibility in the future.

How do I know he is back? Well this is difficult to explain but I’ll try…
The first thing to say is that it has been happening for at least a year, so, no “surprises” or touch and goes or being in limbo when his body is here for a at least a year
Always being there for us! Maybe sometimes with mistakes or not in the best way, but always trying to prove that he’ll always be there doing his best
He LISTENS! and PAYS ATTENTION to others, specially us
Not everything is nice! Sometimes we have different opinions or situations, we are humans! But he solves things with feet on the ground
He accepts that his parents are not going to change and is there for them with love (I believe this is part of the new H)
I can continue with the list but the thing is that you can feel peace in your heart, maybe a big part of it is the non-attatchment but is like when Acorn explained that you’ll know that is baked without opening the oven because of the smell of baked cake

It was good to be back to the forum and post again, now I am going to continue reading posts and keep learning….

Icon updated to "Reconnecting" by agreement with RCR

[UrsaMajor]

You managed to save your thread from the Inactive list! 

So happy to hear that things are going better and better for you and H.

Reconnection/reconciliation is NOT for the faint of heart and not all of us will get to experience it but, for those that do, the joy must be incredible.

I wish you all the best as you make your way forward with the "new and improved" H and look forward to your next updates.... maybe a little sooner than a year?

Reconnection/Reconciliation stories are few and far between - we could use more of them....

[Songanddance]

THIS IS IMPORTANT! When MLCers reconnect,
it doesn’t mean that relationship is fixed or things are going to be as they used to be!
A lot of things happened! And people grow differently  and change.

In my case, we are not living together, we have a relationship, a very healthy one but not in the same house. He has dinner every day with D9 and me and sometimes he stays with us, we go out and spend important dates with the family or friends as a couple but not ready to be back together as we used to be. I have been growing a lot at work and he has been working a lot fixing the things that he did and loving  himself again, both of us healing!
I am really enjoying this relationship with the old? or new? H back and don’t know if we are going to come back to live together but I am not closed to the possibility in the future.

THIS IN BUCKETLOADS!!!!

Reconnection is tough but only if you don't set the boundaries for what you want. It is not a romantic bed of permanent roses, dinners and declarations of love. It is about finding what is right for you, your marriage and your family. 
I see that you are 5 yrs in since BD and reconnection started about 2021. This is pretty much the same pattern I had with H beginning to reconnect after 4 yrs although we have now separated because H has had other diversions!  (sigh)
I am so thrilled to read how cautious and yet positive you are, I am thrilled to see that you are protecting your heart and keeping your head in all of this.

If you can come back a little more often and just journal - it really helps newbies see that after the shock of BD and end of replay there is still a long way to go and that reconnection is simply that - reconnecting.

Reconnection has many positives and I am delighted to see that you have many positives and that you see it as a different kind of journey.

Keep posting when you can!

[MadLuv]

Wow Yo,  thank you for the update. Hope you can continue to journal your journey. So happy for you and always nice to see a couple working their way back to each other ❤️

[Yo]

Thanks for your posts and good wishes! MadLuve, Sunganddance and UrsaMajor! ❤️  Is really good to hear about you!!!
Of course I am going to keep posting! Is not that I can give an advise or something like that but maybe newbies can avoid to make the same mistakes I did and I keep doing sometimes 😬

I always read in this forum that we LBSs should focus in ourselves in order to use this journey as an opportunity to grow but it took me a long time to understand it and I was most of the time observing and analyzing H’s life like if doing that something would change!  How arrogant I was pretending other person life could  be in my hands!
The only life is in my hands is mine, and of course my daughter’s life, she depends on me….

I know is easy to say, don’t pay attention to the love of your life when he is with OW or forgetting what a wonderful life you had together, but once I understood it was when everything started to change “for me”

What it worked for me and still works, is
first find something that I’ll like a lot to have or would like to do
then make a list of steps to get it
and finally start working on it
And every time that my attention went back to H I took the list and kept working on that

I love to travel! i wanted to do it and for that I needed money so my list started with find another job or start my own business, and then the list keeps  going and suddenly my mind was working for me and my heart was content,
And the most important thing, I was giving to my daughter the chance to follow a pattern of reaching goals instead of being waiting for something that was not in my hands with a sad heart

So maybe that can be helpful to start the detachment that we need to be happy and in peace
I am still working on it 😄

[Limboland2018]

Hi Yo

So glad to hear your positive news. I think we are pretty much on the same timeline. My ex came back into our lives beginning January 2021. He wanted to get back with me but I wasn’t ready and don’t know if I’ll ever be able to move beyond the hurt.   Like your mlcer, mine is involved in our lives a lot more especially my daughters but he still doesn’t live in the same country.

I love how you mentioned you’re a role model for your daughter. I think I’ll start writing a list too! I just completed a degree but really would like to start my own business too!

So glad to hear your updates and it just reminds all of the left behind spouses that these mlcers can come back into our lives. It’s just whether we choose to have them.

[Curiosity]

Yo, it’s so good to read your updates. And while you may not think you can give advice, just sharing your story provides such valuable insight. All of our stories have their differences and some of the differences are huge, but the fundamental ideas around focusing on yourself, being your best self, recognizing that the MLCer’s choices are his or her own to make and that their motivations are usually not clear to us (and often not even clear to them!)… those are all pretty consistently true. For an LBS, especially a new one or one whose situation has recently changed, just knowing that others are navigating similar journeys is such a comfort. Not that we would wish this journey on each other, but it’s helpful to know that others are on similar journeys of their own.

[FaithWalker]

So good to hear from you Yo and to get an update.  Looking forward to more updates in the future.   

[Yo]

Hola!

Thank you for your posts! ❤️

Limboland, did you start the list? You are going to be amazed with the things that are going to come up out of it!
Curiosity, thank you for encouraging me to keep posting!
Faithwalker, Thank you for being here!!!!

I would like to have more time to post but after my “lists” lots of good things have come to me and one of them is a new job as I told you, that has been improving in a very short time. I have been offered a promotion! I have to slow down with my business just for a few months but I think it worth it.

All these great things have been happening since I change my focus, instead of being worried about H and crisis I directed my thoughts and energy to me.
I just analyzed what I wanted to be and have, just for me and myself, and then started to work in thoughts, to believe that I worth it. My lists were very important because I felt that it was just one step and once I was there it was just another one. So here I am in the process to have a better life each day!

Related to H I don’t really know what was first, if I stopped looking at his crisis and that helped, or him getting out of the tunnel and that made it easier to me. I would like to think that I did a good job with detachment but maybe external factors helped.
Maybe is not related at all but to be honest I don’t care. 😄

Talking about H, sometimes he is the old H with all the nice things that made me fall in love with him, mostly the part that makes me feel safe.
And sometimes the new H appears, but almost always with a positive outcome.
Last week he told me that he wanted  to start a new hobby, and is to build scale cars or motorcycles, he said that is something to help him with his patience and tolerance and to work with the frustration in order to be a happier person!  Nice!

I have to wake up early in the morning so I have to go but I’ll be around.
Just remember that is not greater wealth than peace of mind and peace of mind comes from not wanting to change others. ❤️

[Curiosity]

Wise words about peace of mind and not wanting to change others. I notice that my W sometimes behaves like the person with whom I fell in love, sometimes more independent and caught up in her own interests… but then I realize that that’s true of me too. When we first got involved, W and I were joined at the hip - rarely spent much time apart, participated in hobbies together. Now, we have grown to accept and (certainly in my case) cherish the differences as much as the similarities. It’s great to spend time together but pursuing our individual interests is also rewarding. Even the differences in how we go about doing the housework are helpful - we don’t step on each other’s toes, we each take on some of the things that the other person doesn’t like doing.

What matters is the mindset and emotional state underlying those separate interests and activities - are we doing it to avoid spending time together, or are we pursuing our separate interests in order to be the best versions of ourselves that we can, recognizing that that’s essential to a healthy relationship?

[Yo]

That is the same exact questions I have!
I wonder if couples that haven’t passed through this crisis, end up like this, to be the best version of themselves or avoiding something as you say Curiosity…

[Curiosity]

It’s true… I mean, I have seen couples who were together in high school and who are now, in their 70s, every bit as much in love as they were back then. They are truly living their best lives as individuals and together. I can’t even have envy or any other negative emotion, because it’s so heartwarming to see these people who are complete, whole individuals and who so perfectly complement each other. But realistically, there are couples together just as long, who are codependent or who bicker or who just seem to coexist without any deeper connection. Maybe those couples, in some cases, have avoidance issues that just never escalated to MLC, and they just adapted to the unhealthy aspects of their relationships. I mean, no individual is perfect and certainly no relationship is perfect. But healthy partnership should be something that enriches the lives of both people, not just a safety net to avoid being alone.

And I think that it is certainly possible to find that later in life or as a second chance - either with a new partner or through genuine reconnection and reconciliation with a healed MLC spouse. It might not have the fairy tale aspects of childhood sweethearts who were always deeply in love (and I’m sure even those relationships had their hard times), but it’s every bit as real and perhaps even more cherished in some cases because of the work it took to get through the struggles.

[Yo]

Yesterday I was talking to a good friend and she explained her marriage divided in 3 stages
First years, infatuation
Next years, rising kids and hard work
Last years, enjoying a detached love with a sense of peace
And I was thinking that this is how I feel about my process  but the difference is that hers was gradual and our had a 5 years or more of a gap with a constant  roller coaster 
and maybe this is why we are sometimes expecting a fairy tail when reconnection or reconciliation…

And talking about other thing, maybe is not important but I would like to share anyway…
H used to be strong and cold minded whit sad news or things like that
I remember that he had a very important situation (which I think triggered his crisis)
He had to brake in to his aunt and grandmother’s house because they didn’t answer the phone and found a very shocking picture, he was the one that called the police, identified the people who did it, and arrange the funeral. He was sad and mad but centered and calm
Now he can’t even stand bad news, last week I was telling him that our friends kid died, to know if he wanted us to visit them or something but he stopped me and told me that he didn’t wanted to know what happened. 
This is not the first time that I notice he can’t with this kind of things. I just listen and understand but is really sad to see that his heart is really hurt 😔

[MadLuv]

Yo- My XH is similar. After we lost our 14 year old daughter to cancer he could not handle anyone coming in at work and saying they were upset they lost their Grandmother or anyone for that matter. He said they had more years then her. He had no empathy at all.

[Yo]

Hola!
MadLuv,  I understand your H can’t handle someone else talking about a lost, nothing can be compared with the lost of a child! I admire your strength and warm heart. Thanks for being here!

Update…
Today I  have an interesting talk with H,
MIL has have some issues, I don’t know if is a mental situation or just emotional but is something that she has been struggling with since H was a little kid.
For years she had been ok checked by a very good doctor but lately it seems like meds are not working.
H told me that sometimes he thought that he was having the same issues as his mother because he felt anxiety, depression and some other feelings like those, and that he was really scared about it,
he says that now he knows it isn’t, but he can’t still say the word “crisis”, is like he is starting to understand what happened to him but for some reason is not completely comfortable talking about it.

I understand now why he didn’t want to go to therapy, he says that he didn’t wanted to be medicated and be like absent like his mother during his childhood
Is really sad! And it makes me think, again, that MLC is directly related with childhood issues

Despite all the things that are happening in his life, he takes the time to ask how I feel and how my day is going. He listens and give opinions about it which makes me realize  that he is not self centered anymore.

[Acorn]

Hi Yo, it’s good to read your recent posts and see that there are positive developments in your husband and relationship.

You seem to be realistic in your assessment of the situation by not indulging in assumptions.  At the same time, you refuse to take on the attitude of ‘glass half empty’ but rather, see and appreciate positive developments.  That attitude perhaps explains the vibe I get from your posts — you seem to be at peace with where things stand in terms of his healing and relationship.  You are not in a hurry for a full marital reconciliation, you do not rub his nose in the mess he made, you have no need to exact your pound of flesh by laying out all his ‘sins’ and demanding apologies (I’m of the opinion that they will come in due time when he is healed and grown enough; preferably, in action.).

What I appreciate about your posts is that you have not engaged in denigrating your husband, you did not poke him to try to fix him, you did not lecture at him with a holier-than-thou attitude, or share with him your analysis of what’s in HIS head, etc.  In short, you showed understanding and compassion, all the while upholding the dignity of both of you and maintaining the boundaries that are enforceable at your end.  In my humble opinion, you have shown what a loving and empathetic stander looks like. 

I wish you further wisdom and strength as you continue on with what you have been doing. 

Hugs!

[Yo]

Hola!

Acorn!!!!!!!! Lots of right guesses I did them thanks to your advice!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH! You were and still are an inspiration to all of us!
The part that you said about not demanding the apologies, you are right, I haven’t, but to be honest some times I would like him to do that 🤭

I think that he is trying some times to compensate some things with actions such as bringing food so I don’t have to cook or buying new tires for my car, he listens a lot, even when my talk is not interesting for him. And I know that is a way to say I am sorry, but it would be nice to hear it.
Anyway I am happy for what he has improved and for my own good and peace of mind, I try to appreciate every effort he makes.

[Acorn]

The part that you said about not demanding the apologies, you are right, I haven’t, but to be honest some times I would like him to do that

I get it completely, Yo.  Who knows, he may express how remorseful he is for all the pain he caused when you least expect it.  I dare say, by that time (if that happens), you won’t need to hear them but will appreciate them all the same.  What really counts is his actions as he seems to be showing you. 

‘Sorry you were feeling hurt.’ Is a throwaway statement, almost blaming the victim.  ‘It pains me deeply that I hurt you so much.  I’m so sorry.  Please forgive me’ is meaningful, I’d say.  That came when I least expected — while taking out the garbage and recycling together.

[Songanddance]

Sorry you were feeling hurt.’ Is a throwaway statement, almost blaming the victim.  ‘It pains me deeply that I hurt you so much.  I’m so sorry.  Please forgive me’ is meaningful, I’d say.  That came when I least expected — while taking out the garbage and recycling together.

And sometimes that genuine remorseful apology may not come. That recognition of the actions the MLCer took and the hurt they inflicted.  My H still hasn't said this and he still thinks my S should get over his feelings of animosity towards him.  H has acknowledged frequently that I have been hurt and he has said that he is truly sorry "that I was hurt" but he has never taken the total responsibility for it neither has he understood what that really means .   It's been 9 years now and we are separated. I doubt highly I will ever hear the words of accountability and for me it really is important that he does this.  Really important regardless of what happens to us. 

Each situation is different. And each LBS has her own boundaries.

[Treasur]

I agree with Song that some of us may never get that. Whether we do or we don’t, and how we choose to live with that, does not I think invalidate our wish to hear it.

At a simple level perhaps, if we don’t hear someone say a) what I did was wrong and b) I understand that I really hurt you and I wish that I hadn’t, I guess it might be quite hard to not feel some doubt that they could do something similar again if they think what they did was ok or take no responsibility for their actions and effects or if it does not seem to hurt them that they hurt us.

[Yo]

Thanks for your posts Acorn, Songanddance, Treasure! ❤️

I noticed that I was expecting an apology and a new relationship with H, but after what he has done, the relationship that we had before the crisis was not enough, I needed more, maybe because before, I was not hurt and now after the ow, the monster episodes, and all the ugly stuff, I found myself wanting more than what H was before MLC.
Is this because I have changed? because I don’t love him like I use to? or because I am not over it yet?

I was thinking about it because last week we were talking about a situation that I had at work and he just told me that I was being a crybaby, that I should solve it or let it go (he said in a nice way) I thought that he was harsh but then I remembered that he use to be like that! Always more practical than emotional, and I was expecting him to pat me on the back, but that is not him!!! The worst thing is that I used to love that about him!
Maybe is just a very simple and not important event but I realized that sometimes I still have expectations and that I don’t know where I am but not because of him but me

[Songanddance]

I was thinking about it because last week we were talking about a situation that I had at work and he just told me that I was being a crybaby, that I should solve it or let it go (he said in a nice way) I thought that he was harsh but then I remembered that he use to be like that!

If my H had said that "I was being a crybaby" to me at any point- MLC or not - I would have asked him to "get lost".   

Your H has a point - solve it or let it go - but there are ways and means of speaking that can say the same but they allow you to arrive at that conclusion. 

If he always used to be this way - it is likely he is going to continue.  He doesn't seem to have an empathetic approach to your concerns.

My H was sometimes like that but when I faced a massive crisis at work and he was well and truly in MLC with OW - he was surprisingly supportive. He would throw away comments such as " Stand up to her (my boss) tell her she's wrong" but on the whole he never said " let it go" because he understood how important it was to me.  He also supported my resigning a year later even though he realised that he would have to pay all of the bills including the mortgage and that was a shock to him.

It comes down to what you want out of a relationship Yo. 
Do you want your H and a restored marriage regardless of how much he hasn't changed or you?
Or do you want something different for yourself?
Do you want a relationship where your feelings are validated not necessarily sympathised with but a more empathetic and reasonable response to your fears/doubts/worries?

Is this because I have changed?   We all change - whether we like it or not because I don’t love him like I use to? who knows what love really is except for what we want it to be or because I am not over it yet?  I don't think we ever "get over" the breakdown of our marriages. We move forward, we grow and we understand much more but we let it go rather than"getting over it " Getting over it is a bit like losing a match - "get over it there'll always been another chance to win."  You can't really say that about a marriage.

[/size]

[Treasur]

Is this because I have changed? because I don’t love him like I use to? or because I am not over it yet

Perhaps a bit of all three?

I agree with what Song wrote above. I don’t see how this kind of experience cannot change us in some ways, or at least change our lens. And that includes seeing our spouse differently. Not necessarily good or bad, or less or more, but differently.
I saw a quote recently that said Acceptance is about being where you are and starting from there.
But perhaps it takes a little while to work out where you actually are.....

How did you respond when your xh called you a cry baby, Yo?

[Acorn]

Dear Yo,

We are all aware of the fact that one cannot direct or should try to manage(manipulate) another person’s feelings, thoughts, or verbal output.  However, we have total control over how we respond to them.  (These are the first things we learn as LBS if we didn’t fully grasp this simple life truth before BD.)

If I were in your shoes, I may consider the following.  Always just a ‘sample of one’ view!

If I was hurt by my H’s comments, I can:

- Fire back with an insult
- Proceed to lay out all his mistakes/faults and teach him how to speak politely
- Simmer quietly in anger and resentment

None of the above (plus numerous more negative ways of communicating with others) would be a mature or beneficial way of managing my relationship with any human being, let alone my husband. 

Or

- Read the situation and determine if the ‘cry baby’ and ‘how to manage your responses’ comments were yet another example of Mansplaining, which is a part of H’s general misogynistic and arrogant attitude that permeated throughout our relationship. (If the answer is ‘yes,’ I would take that as a very loud wake up call and it will be up to me how to respond to that kind of attitude and relational dynamics.)

- Use the rule of 3, pick the right moment, and then express calmly and politely how I felt about his comments.  It’s up to him how he responds to that, going forward. 

- If H had been loving, respectful, consdierate and courteous toward me but made a mistake, forgive and move on.  God knows I have made lots of mistakes, too…

Just my 2 cents’ worth.

Hugs! 

[Yo]

I think I didn’t translate correctly, actually I don’t really know what words to use but I’ll try to explain without justify his behavior…
It was more like “don’t complain when you can solve it” I wrote in the last post that it was something that I use to love about him, the part when he don’t let me surrender,
but now I take some things that come from him differently, like if I just want him to be very sweet without the adults part when you have to place your feet on the ground
and that is why I had those questions in my mind that, by the way, you guys answered  great to me! Thanks!

I hope to be being objective, I am surely going to analyze it

[Songanddance]

It was more like “don’t complain when you can solve it” I wrote in the last post that it was something that I use to love about him, the part when he don’t let me surrender,

That creates a different perspective. However, were your feelings actually validated in that conversation?  Saying the word "Don't" makes things worse usually. 

We might wholly appreciate not being allowed to "surrender" in a situation where we could actually be part of the solution. My take on it though is this -the use of the word "cry baby".  My H now understands that I need to vent when something upsets me - and so he now lets me do that. 
Sometimes we just need to have a good cry - crying is healthy (unless done to excess as we all know post BD). THereafter the conversations we have with those nearest to us are shaped by how we feel after having our feelings validated.

This is what is meant by growth as a whole.  The LBSer will infinitely grow faster than the MLCer.  The MLCer may not grow at all - they may just simply adapt more appropriately. 

RCR is quite clear that MLCers who once through the majority of the crisis - will return to much of their pre crisis attitudes and behaviours. MLC does not make a brand new person emerge. Flashes of the old person will constantly appear.  For example.  You say that your H always used to give you comments or phrases such as "Don't complain if you can solve it"  and seems to be doing so again.  That is fine - however it's how it's said that differs. 

If he says something like this again - as Acorn suggests - apply the rule of 3 and then consider how you would respond to that.  Might it be " Thank you for your words . I do have a solution and I was venting my frustration. I would have appreciated you understanding that"
Or might it be " Has it ever occurred to you that I might just want to vent my feelings and frustrations? "

or might it be " I hear you H - and I understand where you are coming from. For now though - I'm going to vent and stew for a little while because it helps me process the solution"

Let me give you a crude example. 34 yrs ago,  I was in the process of giving birth to my oldest D and H who was generally v supportive throughout said as I was beginning to really struggle with the last set of contractions "  Ok S&D focus on something nice and tell yourself the pain is just in your thoughts.  the pain is just in your head and thoughts"
The midwife shook her head laughingly and my response was " I can tell you right now H that the pain is most definitely not in my head and if you like to swop with me you are more than welcome" 
H never lived that comment down.........  But this is my point.  He hated to see me in physical pain and tried to be helpful - it was just not the right thing to say at that time.

[Yo]

Thank you S&D! I pictured you all calm in the middle of the contractions saying a very eloquent phrase to your  H! 😂😅
But you are right! I’ll apply what Acorn suggested, the rule of 3, and will continue analyzing if this is what I want.

[Yo]

Hola!
I just jumped in to the forum after a year! Happy to be here and happier because I am here for a different reason than I was 5 years ago.
I used to be here looking for advice, someone to tell me what to do or something to make me feel better. I always found love, and I always felt that I was not alone, thank you for that!

Today I am here to let you know that anything can be possible and that everything can be alright even if things are not going to be as you think, wish or plan. Just keep working on you and don’t let the process of your spouse distract you, you can’t do anything about it!

We are happy and blessed, working in our relationship with love, very differently than I would thought because we don’t live together and honestly is something that was not in my mind because of the old style traditions that I have as a Latin woman, but it turned the right way for us so far!
For me to keep growing without the distraction of his process and for him to keep working on it.  This way we have been capable to start all over again but in a wiser version because of the experience.

Trust the timing of your life, and stop trying to calm the storm, CALM YOURSELF! The storm will pass! ❤️

[thissucks7788]

Hi Yo,
So happy you posted an update and I'm thrilled things are going so well for you.  I read through your story and found it very helpful to me (My H has been back home for about a year).  So many of your thoughts and questions that you asked yourself have applied to me and my situation as well.  As I always say, reconciliation has its own set of pitfalls and isn't for the faint of heart.  It isn't the same relationship as before. I notice differences but mostly in how I feel about it/him.  I always thought of H as my best friend who I could trust to the depths of my soul and felt free to share anything/everything.  After what happened, you really can't go back to that or at least I haven't as of yet. (I know it is still early for me)

We are living together, but like you, I've taken to reaching some of my own goals and trying to provide my own sense of safety. It's hard for you to think of your H as a safe space after all of the harm caused. When H left, I got a new job and picked up old hobbies which kept me occupied to some extent.  Even with him at home, I have started on a new work certification course and have been working toward that goal.  BTW, I found your lists inspiring. 

Thank you for providing some kind of roadmap (although I know everyone is different-as Acorn says-"sample of one").  I just want you to know that I appreciate you coming back to give us insight and I hope that things continue to go great for you!
B

[Yo]

Hola thissucks!

I am really happy that you found something helpful in my story!  Is the only reason I came in again to the forum, to let someone know that despite the difficult times, you can be alright, enjoy and be happier,

I know is not easy and you have a lot of questions but I guess that is part of the process and I am not talking about MLC but your process!  You have been through a lot!!!! and forgetting, forgiving and adapting is not over when they comeback!

I believe that what is helping me the most is keep focusing in myself and updating my lists, and to know that nothing is going to be the same BUT that doesn't mean that is wrong! simply different and why not, much better,  because you growth!

 Congratulations on your work certification! Yay!
 And not just because it keeps you occupied but because everything that makes you open your mind to be better in one field, is going to make you better in all the parts of your life!

Sending you lots of love! ❤️