[kikki]

Because my H has shown some moments of awareness of the damage and destruction (at times), or maybe this is only when he has chosen to articulate his awareness to me, I do know that it is there, at least for brief periods.

Should I ever bring it up again, he defends his position.  Is this denial, or is this the 'fog' rolling back in?  We may never know.

I think he is such a confused mess in his head (and soul  ), that he has reverted to his FOO style of 'coping', which is to carpet sweep and carry on. 
Drives me bonkers, but the more I learn about how they actually functioned, and the sinister stuff that was carpet swept, the more I understand how my MLCer is able to do it now to us.

What a mess they are.

[stayed]

No argument there Kikki, THEY are a MESS!!    It is actually totally bazaar.  The problem is, these partners of ours, were truly good partners.  Wonderful fathers/mothers/partners in every good sense out there... THEN THIS CRISIS STRUCK! 

Makes it so difficult to let go, because most of us, really had had wonderful lives!

Hugs Stayed

[kikki]

Nodding my head Stayed, nodding my head.

[blackice]

mine is more aware now of what he is doing than he was. before he was adamant about how this was the best for everyone now he is realizing the kids miss him and he and i are hurting from it all. he is more aware yet he is also more stubborn about making it all work that he is driving himself crazier.

[kikki]

he is more aware yet he is also more stubborn about making it all work that he is driving himself crazier.

Blackice, do you mean he's more stubborn about making his life of escape work?

If so, I am seeing exactly the same thing with my MLCer

[blackice]

yes he is being more stubborn about making his escape life work. he even recognizes he isn't happy there yet he refuses to let it go. he has to work through it on his own, but he has already ended up in the crisis center once already so i hope he figures it out soon for his own mental health.

[Ready2Transform]

Nodding here, too.  And I would love to be enlightened enough to say that I love my husband so much, that if this is what it takes for his "spiritual journey" - the sacrifice of everything I hold dear - I would gladly give it for him to be whole.  But frankly, it just makes me want to gag.  If this guy is on some Buddhist retreat blowing about how he wouldn't trade back every one night stand just for one day of the 6 years he missed with his daughters, because it made him some sort of great man now, then to hell with that.  Ego still fully engaged!  I hope part two has something acknowledging his wife's struggle.  Because honestly - it still sounds his remorse over the loss of his family is all about him.  Do they every FULLY get it?!  Of are we, in the end, just so worn down, there's no fight left in us? 

I know it seems somehow wonderful to see this man, in the end, choose his wife as his healer.  But what has she gone through in the meantime?  What had to be destroyed to make her the woman who had 'moved on'?  I'm just really questioning it all.  And I still have no doubt that his tipping point, besides the chemical effects of the depression all of those life events put him in, was probably treatable low T given his age.  But he DID make choices.  This isn't an amnesia fog.  It really makes me think about what and who exactly I'm standing for, even in the best case scenario.

[Musica]

Very interesting discussion/ story. Joining to hear the next instalment!

Thanks xx

[kikki]

Ego still fully engaged!  I hope part two has something acknowledging his wife's struggle.  Because honestly - it still sounds his remorse over the loss of his family is all about him.  Do they every FULLY get it?!  Of are we, in the end, just so worn down, there's no fight left in us? 

Glad you articulated that Ready.  I'm wondering the same thing.
Especially for the ones who dribble on 'forever' and cause far more destruction that the earlier returners.

yes he is being more stubborn about making his escape life work. he even recognizes he isn't happy there yet he refuses to let it go. he has to work through it on his own, but he has already ended up in the crisis center once already so i hope he figures it out soon for his own mental health.

Sorry to hear that Blackice, but I do know what you mean.  Living through the same thing here.

[Anjae]

By the end, the "crashing in depression" part began to tell us something new.  Like L & others here expressed, how does this actually happen?

The crashing depression? Stress and agitation. Rock botton? According to my cousin and other former MLCers I know, one day they can no longer carry on, they have the aha aha moment. Would say it has something to do with the crazy hormones getting the best of them and they left drained and flat. Rock bottom depression (Liminality) being a time of more calm (compared to Replay) may allow their bodies and minds to go back a little to the way it was before.

Too bad many of them don't comprehend this until it is too late.

Or they comprehend but are trapped in their fog?

OW/OM are a distraction, but one that cause too much damages and allows the MLCer to keep running. It is irrelevant who the OW/OM are, the fact they exist prolongs the crisis. It would be very different if MLC did not had a OW/OM. Or if the affair was like normal ones.

What about our less energetic MLCers, the ones who creep along, and never have that endorphin crashing, adrenaline fading WTF hangover... how long do they take?  Ten, fifteen years?

Less, I think. And judging from my wallower cousin, whose whole crisis was much shorter than super high energy Mr J, a wallower can be much faster than an high energy MLCer.

Interesting, Albatross.

So, J, your MLCer friend, like many other MLCers, does not regret the damage he caused, maybe because he is still friends with his x-wife, and like many other MLCer has a nice post crisis live. It is often the less fortunate LBS who ends up with a not so cool life.

OP, detach, let go and boundaries are not going to bring them out of crisis. Let alone vanishers. Vanishers have no contact with the LBS and their crisis only ends when it ends. Ironically I still think if I had not turned my uber clinger into a vanisher his crisis would had been shorter. Or maybe not.

Putting more pressure upon the already pressured and stressed LBS, give them one more thing to worry: enabling the MLCer depression, is not fair. And does not make sense. If MLC is an individual crisis and a MLCer is going to do what they will do no matter what, no point in adding to the LBS burdens by making a LBS feel like we are responsible for their depression. We are not. Nor for how long it lasts.

The problem is, these partners of ours, were truly good partners.  Wonderful fathers/mothers/partners in every good sense out there... THEN THIS CRISIS STRUCK! 

It is the fact that they were good partners that makes it a crisis. If they have always been this way there was no crisis, just their normal selves. Therefore, the issues must be the crisis and not the person. On the other hand the crisis is the person while the crisis last. Catch 22.

Ego still fully engaged!  I hope part two has something acknowledging his wife's struggle.  Because honestly - it still sounds his remorse over the loss of his family is all about him.  Do they every FULLY get it?!  Of are we, in the end, just so worn down, there's no fight left in us? 

Yep, he seems to still be full of himself. No remorse? Really? There may be no fight left is us but that is because we said: enough, not one more once of energy waisted in nut MLCer. Everyone here knows if I would go back I would had divorced on the spot and would not waste a minute with Mr J.

And since I think MLC is about stress and other hormones out of balance, for me this is all a bit senseless. All it would require it would be to balance the levels.