Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Happylight on February 16, 2024, 01:44:36 PM
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I have been going through this for a while now, but more recently found this forum. I have read lots of posts and thought I would share my story.
M-23 T-24
LBS(Me-47)H-49
S20,D16,D11
In hindsight this journey started long before I knew.
In the Spring of 2021 I started feeling like I was walking on eggshells. We were arguing a lot more. H had a motorcycle for a while, but he joined a motorcycle club. He cut his hair in a mohawk style. I thought it was a result of a lot of things that were going on with Covid. Our oldest graduated from high school that May and left for college in August. In September of 2021, we had a big argument over some comments that I made to long time friends that he perceived as disrespectful. He said he wanted a divorce, we argued, he dropped some bombs about some traumas from teen year that he has experienced that I had never heard about. He got emotional, but it was resolved. Walking on eggshells continued, but we had many good moments also. Life was busy, with work and kids and his increasing participating in MC.
In September of 2022 he became angry while we were on a camping trip. This time I saw the monster. He was very hateful, and finally I said fine. I went to sleep in the back part of the camper, but he came to me a little while later crying and saying he didn't know what was wrong with him. Over the next few months he was spending more time away from home with friends, he was drinking more and it was concerning me.
In beginning of Feb 2023 I was gone for a work conference, and when I came back, I could tell something was really off. However, like others, I had no idea what was about to happen. I kept pushing him for several days to tell me what was going on, and finally when he came home late after being out drinking he gave me ILYBNILWY and 50 reasons for the irretrievable breakdown of our marriage--which were all my fault. He was bringing up a completely appropriate relationship with my son's junior high coach (5 years prior which I now realize was projection) among many other things. He told me that he wanted a divorce and was moving out to our RV.
For the next 3 months he stayed at home. We still had a relationship and slept in the same bed. He was cold and distant, but would only blow up or bring up the split after drinking. He came home at night except when he was on a motorcycle ride. April 2023 he started sleeping in our son's room. May 2023 he moved out to RV.
After he moved out, he became very confusing because I now understand he is a clinging boomerang. He would say he loved me and wanted to be with me. He would come to the house daily, and He would want me to come to RV, but we would have random explosions where he would perceive something I did as a problem, he would project and spew with monster, but would then the next day would come close again. I always attributed the behavior to drinking. In July 2023 he told me he wanted to take me on a trip for my birthday. We went on a trip for 3 days you would have never known that there was any problems between us.
A week after that I went to visit him at RV and accidentally caught him with OW. He had hidden it really well. She revealed that they had been seeing each other for 8 months. I handled a lot poorly, but I was so thrown off by it. Other than that night, he refuses to admit she even exists or existed. I have not talked to her other than that night--she is over 20 years younger and from what I did learn, so many things that he doesn't like in a woman. The very next day he reached out to me again. He told me he wanted a divorce that night, but never took action. I honestly have no idea what the status of their relationship is--she lives like an hour away and earlier on his behavior had a pattern which is not present, but again, I really don't know.
I tried starting to detach a bit more, but struggled. In September or October he started coming over more and spending the night. He would come over almost every day and started taking me out on dates. I was following some advice from a group that supports standing for marriage, but didn't really dive into MLC stuff until later in the fall. I thought we were building and working on reconnecting.
Thanksgiving 2023 we had a great week together and great day, but that night he decided to throw everything in the pantry away to help the family be more healthy, and then was going to get in the car and take off. I told him not to leave because he had been drinking and we had a huge argument, my son intervened and told him to leave. He also called my parents for support. My youngest was crying over everything in the pantry being thrown away. He left to go hunting and came back 3 days later and told me not to talk to him. We pretty much were almost no contact for 3 weeks or so--only contact regarding kid events. During this time he started reaching out to the kids and seemed to be trying to reconnect with them. Then he asked if he could come over for dinner. He thanked me for dinner. Since then I think has been trying to reconnect, but it comes and goes. He will connect and then move away for a few days. I have not seen Monster since Thanksgiving.
We spent Christmas together. Since Christmas, he has spent at least a couple nights a week at the house, we went on a family weekend away, and he took me to the deer lease for a weekend. He has honored requests I have made to not leave without saying goodbye.
We have not had any relationship status talk in months. Every opportunity he has had to separate us financially etc, he does not. I work full time and make decent money, but he earns more than I do. He has not complained at all about my spending and has made sure financial needs are met.
During this time, I started working out again, have lost 30 pounds. I started learning how to play piano, saw a counselor for a while (she actually said that I was pretty self aware and reflective), started bible study more regularly, cooked more, cleaned house more, went to the firing range on my own, started being more aware of my dress, makeup hair, get nails done regularly, and most recently learned how to crochet. Next, I am working on a garden at home. I have done a huge amount of reading and reflection on relationships, the 4 horsemen, forgiveness, and MLC. At this point, I am aware, that I would be considered a high value woman.
A few weeks ago he texted me when he was out of town with his buddy (buddy stays with him during the week but is in the process of relocating and he frequently goes to his land out of state). He said he wanted me to know he loved me, that I am the image of purity to him, and that he shouldn't tell me these things because they make him seem needy. He said he wanted to talk to me when he returned, but that was 3 weeks ago, and we haven't had a talk.
Lately, he has admitted that he has been having panic attacks, and I think he has been a little scared. They feel like a heart attack, but he has had them checked out in the past. He has also said he is afraid he might be having alcohol withdrawal, which I take as an acceptance that he knows he might have a problem. I have been much better and mirroring his communication and not reaching out when he is dark. However, I do find that at times after I reach out, he seems to communicate a lot more. I keep trying to get on with my life. When I start struggling I try to sleep or pick up a new hobby. Very few people in my life know that we are separated even though it has been a year. He has been calmer and shared some reflections of things (about life and kids) that seem to reflect a much calmer and more rational state of mind. We come from very different backgrounds, he is highly intelligent and successful, but growing up his life was harder. Both of his parents have passed away in their 50s, and I have both of mine. He has little to no contact with his siblings. He has a GED and I have a master’s degree (which seems to bother him), but I work in education and it is more required, his field allows more for experience.
I think he is reconnecting slowly. Any advice or insight is helpful. Until I learned about the clinging boomerang, I thought I was losing my mind!
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Not sure I’m the most useful or appropriate responder, but weekends can be quiet so I wanted you to know you were heard until better folks come along to share their advice. My first thought, funnily enough, was that you might want to go back and read Hopeandfaith’s story who just posted an update, bc there may be some similarities in her situation and yours.
A few weeks ago he texted me when he was out of town with his buddy…..said he wanted me to know he loved me, that I am the image of purity to him, and that he shouldn't tell me these things because they make him seem needy. He said he wanted to talk to me when he returned, but that was 3 weeks ago, and we haven't had a talk.
From reading stories here over the years, this is exactly what clinging boomerangs seem to do. Pop up, big declaration that sounds like it means something, then away they go. I think it makes it much harder to detach or see the wood for the trees bc of course most LBS believe - or want to believe understandably - it means some kind of progress towards the reconnection they want. But anecdotally, that is often not true; it’s more like an emotional burp. Bc these folks are driven by emotions turned up to 11…and those emotions can change between a Tuesday and a Thursday. Keeps you on the rollercoaster though, I’d imagine.
If this is how it seems to be, what do you want to do about it?
What do you think is in your best interests and best for you and your kids?
How can we best support you figuring out how to meet your own goals?
It sounds as if, in addition to whatever potential MLCish thing is underpinning his behaviour, there are two other big elephants in the situational room. Ow (or owomen) are one. And I’m so sorry you had to find out about ow the way you did; that must have been awful. I don’t know what your pov is about infidelity. Again, based on stories here, it is usually wise to accept that someone has lied to you makes it much more likely that they are still lying about other things. It can be a bit of a shock, almost like a series of small BDs, as the truths come out. Which of course often with time and events, they do. And his refusal to discuss it is not imho a good sign of reconnection, more an ongoing attempt to compartmentalise when it suits him. And to keep getting whatever it is he wants to keep getting from his interactions with you, your kids and the secrecy.
The other of course is his drinking. Again idk what your pov is about this, if it pre-dates BD or how much life experience you have of being around people who have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. But of course these folks lie and compartmentalise too, don’t they? It’s the nature of the beast. Which raises some really difficult questions for those that love them about the balance between supporting and inadvertently enabling.
So, three things at least….ow, drinking and whatever underpins his particular crisis. None of which are either caused or fixable by you.
So, what do you want to do with that?
Same question really….if this is how it currently is, how much or how little of it do you want to allow into your life and your kids’ lives? What is acceptable to you to work with and what is not? And what kind of boundaries do you want to put in place for the bits that are not? How can we best support you?
No judgement from me, regardless of your answers, if you choose to share them here. I can pretty much guarantee that there is not one single thing you have experienced, done, thought or felt that has not been shared by other LBS here at some point. You are not alone. You are not crazy. But you are in a situation which is profoundly distressing and confusing. One that is not primarily about you, but that doubtless affects pretty much every part of your life that you value most. There is no easy one size fits all solution for that; only a process, usually with some trial and error, of figuring out the sanest, wisest way for you to navigate it. And lots of invisible folks here who want to support you and your kids as you do. :)
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Thank you for words of kindness.
For now, I will continue standing. I understand that I have choices, do feel very strongly about the vows that I made. For me, the vows that I made aren't negated by someone else's actions. At some point, I may decide that I will release myself, but the time hasn't come for me yet.
I would like to figure out how to detach a little more. Also, I know I should have had more boundaries in the past, but I have learned a lot. A few weeks ago I requested that he not leave the house without letting me know he's leaving (he would leave while I was walking the dog or in the shower), and he has made a point to show that he is respecting that request. Currently, I am not sure if I need to put any new boundaries in place.
A couple of changes in the last couple of weeks. He started taking some blood pressure medicine and has dramatically cut down his drinking. The combination really seems to have taken the wind out of his sails. He seems a lot more withdrawn. However, when he is with me, he seems kind, helpful, and like he wants to be there. When I text him, he is responsive if I need something. I have tried to detach more by only messaging when I truly need something. He's been running and avoiding (with drinking and other behaviors) for a couple of years now, and I don't know what it means that he isn't engaging in those behaviors right now.
An additional complicating factor--He has a friend that is staying with him in the RV currently. It is an older guy that he respects a lot. He sold his house and was supposed to move out of state once his job wrapped up, but his job has lasted longer than expected, so he is there during the week and travels to his wife out of state most weekends.
As for avoiding talking about anything, I haven't tried to mention or bring up anything in a while now. I am not sure how to know when the time is right to try to ease into those types of conversations since most things advise avoiding relationship talk. I have been trying to avoid additional chaos in my kids' lives. So, I have tried to avoid making too many changes at home. I haven't said negative things about their father. They are pretty intuitive (even though I have kept details from them) and in their own times have let him know a couple of times that they are angry with him, that I haven't said anything to them, but that they can see who is here. He seems to realize the distance he has created with kids and has been making some additional efforts with them in the last three months. He has also admitted to not handling certain things well with them in the last 2 years, which is a huge shift.
I am just trying to figure out if I am on the right pathway regardless the outcome. The waiting is a killer...
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Hi Happylight and welcome to HS.
I have been standing for our marriage for many years. There are some other places that support my beliefs but I have benefitted a great deal from what I have learned about MLC here.
I wrote today on another thread that I had difficulty with the word “detach”. There are so many memories, dreams that are not in my conscious control. What made more sense to me was accept what is. This was a better way for me to support my beliefs about marriage and what has happened to change him so greatly.
You might wish to look into Al Anon for support. As you know there is nothing you can do about his drinking.
As you stated, the waiting is very hard.
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Hello Happy and "welcome" to the party that no one ever wanted a forced invitation to attend.
A little word on "detachment." The way it is bandied about here suggests different things but, going WAY back into the past when RCR first coined the term, it was seen to mean getting control of your own emotional well being and "detaching" your emotional well-being and stability from the emotional rollercoaster of the Mid-Lifer.
Later it was seen as some as meaning to detach from the MLC'er in some form or another and to retreat/isolate/remove one's self from the equation where the Mid-Lifer was involved or to detach one's self from the memories (the REAL memories) of the relationship that was there prior to the bomb going off. This would, naturally lead to the distancing of the LBS from the MLC'er and that is where some of the longer-term standing members of the forum take issue with the term I believe.
True "detachment" (as least as the term was initially meant) is a way of maintaining control over the one thing that you actually have control over and that is yourself. The Mid-Lifer has the emotional stability of a bowl of Jello on a hot day. Therefore, getting our own emotional basis under our control instead of being attached to the radical ups and downs of the MLC'er is what it is all about.
As RCR said once upon a time (and I am paraphrasing this), it is imperative that we (the LBS) detach our own emotions from the emotional Rollercoaster that is the MLC'er in order to avoid being whipsawed by their emotional turmoil. The main reasons for this are that a) we are NOT the cause of said turmoil (as much as they would LOVE to have us take that responsibility for them like we took the responsibility for many other things in our lives together a our marriages), and b) we can not control their emotional state of mind anymore than we can control the path of a tornado... but we CAN control our own state of being. We just need to take the ti9me to learn how to do that again as an individual instead of as a couple...
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A few weeks ago I requested that he not leave the house without letting me know he's leaving (he would leave while I was walking the dog or in the shower), and he has made a point to show that he is respecting that request. Currently, I am not sure if I need to put any new boundaries in place.
You might find it useful to read up a little on boundaries. I don’t know why him telling you when he’s leaving is important to you, but you are right that it is a request. And bc it is based on HISactions not YOURS, it is not in your control and therefore not a boundary as such.
An equivalent boundary might look more like ‘I don’t like people coming and going in my home without my knowing about it’ (as an example) and if someone is unable or unwilling to meet that, then I will change the locks/put the chain on the door when I am at home/take legal action if necessary to prevent them accessing my home etc etc (bc there are lots of possible choices we can make to honour our own boundaries).
Some boundaries are situational…if I find myself in x situation, this is what enables me to cope ok with the situation. And they can change as a situation changes. Some are more absolute, more about our own deeper sense of self and apply across most/all situations, so those tend not to change much or be dependent on a given situation. And sometimes we find out what our basic boundaries REALLY are bc we are placed for the first time in a situation that tests them….which can mean we find out things about ourselves than can be surprising or even uncomfortable.
And boundaries tbh are important actions, ours and others, as opposed to words.
But it tends to be centred on what OUR boundary line is actually ABOUT for US. And it takes a bit of trial and error to get the hang of boundaries if we are not used to then.
What boundaries do you feel you need and why? Or what do you see as the effects of not having them if as you say, you are not sure if you need different/new ones?
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I appreciate the input on detachment. I do appreciate the different definitions and I feel like they may help me a little more. I am much less impacted by his actions than I used to be, but not completely unaffected. I do think the boomeranging has made it much more difficult. The information I have learned about the MLC has helped me to process things in a much less emotional manner.
I understand what was shared about boundaries. I should have had some boundaries in response to monster, (projection, spewing, rage), but did not understand as well what was going on. However, I haven't seen monster in almost 3 months now, but if he does return, I think that I will be able to use a boundary for my own well being.
I understand that the boundary is for me. I also believe he is cake eating--particularly in terms of meals. Him eating the food at home isn't hurting me at all, so I don't believe a boundary is needed, but he is getting the best of both worlds in many ways here.
The kids have no desire to visit him at the RV and it is difficult with the additional person staying there, so his visits to the house are when he sees the kids. Many resources I have read also say that the less things are changed in the home, the easier it is for them to return. So much of his behavior doesn't seem particularly permanent. He really has no more clothing with him than he would have on a vacation. He washes his clothes at the house and his closet and dresser are still mostly full. He has made no attempt to find a different living situation. At one point, he mentioned moving into the bedroom upstairs, but that was when his buddy was supposed to be gone, so as I stated, I am not sure what impact that living situation is having on everything.
I have recently realized that, really, my whole life, my friendship were based on/built off of work related activities or kid related activities. Although I still have the same job, I have actually been working to have more balance with work, and life has changed in the last couple of years with kid-related activities. The number of people that actually know my situation in my circle is very small--around 10 including my parents, my kids, and my sister. Mutual acquaintances don't know--although I think a few have figured it out. This transition occurred on the tail of covid and lots of situational changes due to our son graduating and our daughters getting older, so many mutual social situations had already disappeared. This has left me feeling kind of isolated. I have done a lot on building and growing myself, but it has been mostly in isolation. I don't know how to do things just for the sake of being social. In some ways, keeping up with everything, doing my workouts, being the default parent has me tired and feeling overwhelmed, but also, I think that I need to do something to branch out. Thinking about it makes me tired too.
I think that I am also a bit burned out. I have had my moments, and I have cried, and done stupid things, but I have never completely fallen apart. I have always kept moving forward and took care of what needed to be done--adding more to my checklist at home. Some days I just don't want to do anything, but also get frustrated when I am not productive and there is so much nobody else is doing.
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I don't know how to do things just for the sake of being social. In some ways, keeping up with everything, doing my workouts, being the default parent has me tired and feeling overwhelmed, but also, I think that I need to do something to branch out. Thinking about it makes me tired too.
I think that I am also a bit burned out. I have had my moments, and I have cried, and done stupid things, but I have never completely fallen apart. I have always kept moving forward and took care of what needed to be done--adding more to my checklist at home. Some days I just don't want to do anything, but also get frustrated when I am not productive and there is so much nobody else is doing.
IMO, if thinking about it makes you tired, you are probably not ready for it. The time will come when you feel ready. Or an opportunity will present itself. Try to trust yourself - you already said that you have previously built things (paraphrasing) - so, you can build ;) you can transfer that skill. When you are ready. Something I did, was try to say 'yes' to as many invites as I could. Now, I know I am on the mend, as I can turn things down, and look forward to nights in. I am now contemplating the 'new people' phase, but it's been 18 months for me.
Yes, you are very likely emotionally exhausted. Remember, fallow periods allow for new growth. I was the same as you. Had a bit of a 'lost' day today (hence I am here ;) ) but they get fewer and further between.
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The Mid-Lifer has the emotional stability of a bowl of Jello on a hot day. Therefore, getting our own emotional basis under our control instead of being attached to the radical ups and downs of the MLC'er is what it is all about.
Yes, I felt that I was literally attached to a ship listing at sea, bobbing up and down with big waves threatening to take me under. Once I realized that there was an OW (like most I couldn't comprehend that was true), then I realized I was also attached to her by being attached to him.
So I had to cut the line for a period of time, so to speak, to survive. I needed to not drown and then right my ship. Then, with time, I could heal and have a better view of what was happening and even make my way to shore for some stability.
It really felt like I was drowning, that I couldn't breathe due to the pain, until I learned to focus on me and learned coping strategies, which included exercise.
It's a very tough thing to go through.
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Trying to figure out how to really keep my expectations down.
Friday my H decided to buy a new sectional for our living room-he asked me about it and I said I didn't really care, so he bought it. He did not want his recliner moved out of the living room even though it doesn't go with the new furniture. He spent almost the entire weekend at the house. He seems to be connecting with the kids more. He has also started walking the dogs with me sometimes, which is something that he hasn't done in the past, and he hasn't been working out with weights which he had been doing with vigor for most of the crisis. It's hard to put my finger on some of the changes. Before I knew what was happening he seemed angry and irritable all the time--and that I could do nothing right, and then he was withdrawn and cold or hot, then he was kind of manic and very loving. Now, he seems warm and more considerate, but deflated and kind of quiet and withdrawn. Sometimes, when he is at the house, it seems like none of the last couple of years--especially the last year, ever happened.
I keep telling myself he might randomly completely disappear on me, but it is very hard to live through these things and not have any expectation in them. How do you keep yourself in check, but still allow them to build back with you--especially if they haven't broken the silence yet?
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I am really struggling this last week. I am not sure if it is just burnout, exhaustion or what. The thing is, nothing has happened that should cause things to be harder for me. In a lot of ways, things in our situation and interactions have improved. However, I currently feel like depression is lurking nearby, like quicksand, threatening to suck me under. I am having to push myself so much to continue on with all my daily activities.
Why, after more than a year, am I struggling so much the last couple of weeks?
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Depression is part of the LBS journey towards acceptance. Don’t be afraid of it. Know it’s something that has to happen and give yourself the time and grace to work through it. Things will become clearly and more peaceful on the otherside.
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Trying to figure out how to really keep my expectations down.
Friday my H decided to buy a new sectional for our living room-he asked me about it and I said I didn't really care, so he bought it. He did not want his recliner moved out of the living room even though it doesn't go with the new furniture. He spent almost the entire weekend at the house. He seems to be connecting with the kids more. He has also started walking the dogs with me sometimes, which is something that he hasn't done in the past, and he hasn't been working out with weights which he had been doing with vigor for most of the crisis. It's hard to put my finger on some of the changes. Before I knew what was happening he seemed angry and irritable all the time--and that I could do nothing right, and then he was withdrawn and cold or hot, then he was kind of manic and very loving. Now, he seems warm and more considerate, but deflated and kind of quiet and withdrawn. Sometimes, when he is at the house, it seems like none of the last couple of years--especially the last year, ever happened.
I keep telling myself he might randomly completely disappear on me, but it is very hard to live through these things and not have any expectation in them. How do you keep yourself in check, but still allow them to build back with you--especially if they haven't broken the silence yet?
and
I am really struggling this last week. I am not sure if it is just burnout, exhaustion or what. The thing is, nothing has happened that should cause things to be harder for me. In a lot of ways, things in our situation and interactions have improved. However, I currently feel like depression is lurking nearby, like quicksand, threatening to suck me under. I am having to push myself so much to continue on with all my daily activities.
Why, after more than a year, am I struggling so much the last couple of weeks?
Uhmmmmmmm .... Read your two last posts.....
Does the term "whipsawed" ring a bell? Rollercoaster?
On one side you are dealing with a Mid-Lifer that APPEARS to be showing some signs of .... what.... pulling his head out of his ..... fog.... but at the same time, your gut is telling you that this might just be some sort of "touch-and-go" and he might just pull a "Where's Waldo" on you.
Unless you are this guy with trying to hold both sides together in one coherent exercise
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMWRqenNpNDBvNXQ1MnZ5d280bzNkbmxteHA5MDk2c21oeTltb3J1OSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/LWQVG2QJwUgla/giphy.gif)
You should not be surprised to feel wiped out once in a while.... It is fully normal....
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I am really struggling this last week. I am not sure if it is just burnout, exhaustion or what. The thing is, nothing has happened that should cause things to be harder for me. In a lot of ways, things in our situation and interactions have improved. However, I currently feel like depression is lurking nearby, like quicksand, threatening to suck me under. I am having to push myself so much to continue on with all my daily activities.
Why, after more than a year, am I struggling so much the last couple of weeks?
Don’t underestimate the physical toll that this can take. The anxiety, the unknown, the waiting for things to happen, the trying to interpret what has already happened, these are not natural states of being and they can really adversely impact a person, not just emotionally but physically.
On Wednesday I had one of my follow up visits for cancer. They uploaded the scan results to my portal Wednesday night so I read something on the scan that sounds scary, with no knowledge of what it actually meant, and I had to wait until later today, when I have my appointment with the oncologist. And I was thinking that that is a little bit analogous to the LBS watching and reading and listening and looking for clues and signs of something happening, something that’s changed, etc. What is the same is that anxiety of knowing (but not really knowing at all) just a little bit, just enough to get the imagination going in all sorts of directions.
Do you have a therapist? Your health and wellbeing is the most important thing here.
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On Wednesday I had one of my follow up visits for cancer. They uploaded the scan results to my portal Wednesday night so I read something on the scan that sounds scary, with no knowledge of what it actually meant, and I had to wait until later today, when I have my appointment with the oncologist. And I was thinking that that is a little bit analogous to the LBS watching and reading and listening and looking for clues and signs of something happening, something that’s changed, etc. What is the same is that anxiety of knowing (but not really knowing at all) just a little bit, just enough to get the imagination going in all sorts of directions.
Do you have a therapist? Your health and wellbeing is the most important thing here.
I really hope that your appointment went well, and that the scary stuff can be dealt with. I do think that is a good analogy.
I went to a therapist for a while. She did help, but really it was. a lot of just me recapping things that had happened. She said she would continue to see me if I wished (my benefits were running out and would have been higher out of pocket), but that I was very aware, pretty insightful, and if I felt like going back to school I should consider therapy as a new career. She was very supportive and understanding of my efforts to stand for my marriage, which I have heard is not always the case with therapists.
I have been trying to continue on with my routines and activities--exercise, piano, walking, crochet--these things have helped in the past year, and they are all new routines in the last year. I also try to take a hot bath every night.
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Happy,
In the beginning therapy for me was very helpful. Just getting to a safe place to let it all out was great. Now that I have a better handle on what is going on I go less but I find the session’s helpful.
As for hobbies that sounds great! I want to learn how to play the guitar and maybe I’ll add piano to the list. I did dancing lessons early on, had a blast. Keep up the good work working on yourself!
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Journaling a bit...
Several months ago, while praying, I heard a very clear message to "Be Still." I have been working very hard at that, and for the most part have been pretty successful. However, as more time passes, and as he seems to move closer to me and the family, it seems like it gets harder.
As I wrote, last week he bought a new sectional for the house. This week we had to get a new washer. He asked me which one I wanted and then ordered it. He also bought new pillows for the bed at the house--for him and for me.
Last week he spent Saturday and Sunday (and both nights), this week he came over Thursday, Friday, and Sunday nights. He worked from the house on Friday, worked Saturday morning, took me to get a new washing machine, but then left. He showed up again Sunday morning and spent the day and night. He spends some of the time at the house playing video games, which is something he did before he moved out, but hadn't done for about 8 months, and he just picked up again in the last month or so. He also seems to be going to bed at night and getting up earlier. He was often complaining that he didn't sleep well, and had been having panic attacks, which I think the way he was living was impacting that (routines, habits, and living in ways that were incompatible with his beliefs.).
He made a statement about getting old and that it sucks. This seems like progress because he is starting to accept that he is aging and he is being impacted by the aging.
We seem to be largely past the projection and spewing. I do know it could return, but it has been a little over 3 months since it last showed. There have been lots of other little things that have changed and I don't seem to be able to completely detach from what they mean. I am definitely doing things much different than what I did at the beginning, but it does seem that as soon as I withdrew and was able to detach, he came back started with possible reconnecting behaviors and threw me off. I've moved forward with my life, but have not moved on. I think that as long as I have not moved on, I think I will be impacted by his changes even though at times I wish this was not the case.
I think he is still in escape and avoid mode, but I suspect spiraling down toward depression and withdrawal. Although I don't know or see everything (and I've stopped with any additional snooping or investigation), I still see much less of the high energy replay activities, behavior, and attitude. There seems to be less arrogance about him as well. The bomb drop that I think was the beginning of escape and avoid was about 18 months ago, but the second bomb drop which really brought me into the crisis was about 13 months ago.
I am trying to hold fast to my routines and changes that have been made in my life in the past year. I know that I am better for them. In fact, if I wasn't already married to the idiot for 23 years with history, life, and 3 kids, I wouldn't waste my time on him. Isn't that crazy? The Alienator's and the replay behaviors make our MLCers feel more valuable, but in my eyes they are really taking away value.
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I know that timelines are difficult. I know that it is slow. That being said, I have to ask. Returns and/or reconnections--can they just drag on forever?
H seems to be moving closer, but it is baby steps. He seems to be slowly spending more and more time at the house. In the past week he has been at the house literally every day, and spent pretty much all day there (either hanging out or working from home) 3 full days and spent the night 3 nights. The amount of time at the house seems to be very slowly increasing and sometimes we have a few steps back. For months he never spent the night at all and we wouldn't see him for several days at a time. This gradually increasing pattern occurred in the fall (Sept-Nov), we had a huge argument over Thanksgiving and it reset, and he pretty much disappeared for about 3 weeks. Its been building again since Christmas time.
I am having a hard time managing expectations and finding my balance. It seems like as soon as I get a rhythm and find my balance, things shift.
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Returns and/or reconnections--can they just drag on forever?
When this site first started, I think it was 2010 or so, RCR and other researches on MLC put a timeframe as 2-3 years for the crisis to last. That was later upgraded to 3-7 years. There are stories now of these changes in our spouses lasting a decade or more......
You cannot really set any expectations about how long.....and when a spouse continues to interact on some level, it's difficult not to have hope and expectations that he is working through the crisis and coming closer.
A great deal of patience is required and the ability to let go of any type of outcome.
In fact, if I wasn't already married to the idiot for 23 years with history, life, and 3 kids, I wouldn't waste my time on him. Isn't that crazy?
It's not crazy. We never wanted this to happen, it was not our choice. We do not automatically stop loving someone who has withdrawn their love from us.
Several months ago, while praying, I heard a very clear message to "Be Still." I have been working very hard at that, and for the most part have been pretty successful. However, as more time passes, and as he seems to move closer to me and the family, it seems like it gets harder.
Those words, they bring a certain amount of peace but then we don't see any "progress" and we start to doubt what God tells us.And we know, God's timing is not our timing...we just wish it would hurry up!
My BD was a very long time ago and we have contact with one another. He is mainly the one who initiates, and our relationship is "superficial"...mainly because I don't want to hear about his "life" so our conversations are limited. It still affects me to hear about his life, so I limit any discussion when he brings some things up......the changes in him are still very apparent.
On the other hand, I know a few people and there are some stories here...that even if they reconnect or return, it still takes time to work through all that has happened.
I am having a hard time managing expectations and finding my balance. It seems like as soon as I get a rhythm and find my balance, things shift.
That will get easier with time.
Continue to build a life...we have often said "live as though he is never coming back"....hard to do but not impossible. :)
My therapist told me that I can choose from one day to another whether I wish to see him or not. That gave me the freedom to realize that I am more in charge of my life than I thought.
You talked about therapy. Initially I saw a therapist that was basically talk therapy where I would discuss every detail of what was happening, what he said, what he did. That was helpful in the early year or so. After time, I realized I was "stuck", and I found a therapist that does mind/body work...specifically dealing with trauma and how it affects our nervous system. Working with her helped me a great deal to become more relaxed, at peace and able to feel joy once more.
I found Rejoice Ministries very helpful in letting go and trusting God's plans for my life and my "prodigal's".
Letting go of timelines is hard...we just want to know, one way or the other, when is this going to be over? Every situation is different. I have and will continue to keep a place for him in my life but that doesn't stop me from living a full and interesting life without him.
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Reconnections (real ones) happen with all the speed of
(https://media.giphy.com/media/144qyNvvUIGtZm/giphy.gif)
because the Mid-Lifer has a whole huge pile of FOO Poo to work through first....
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I’d encourage you to try to take his behaviour at current moment face value (eg he is spending more time at home bc he wants to and you are not preventing him ) rather than reading too much more into its significance than that. Partly bc it seems to ebb and flow driven by things that probably are invisible to you rather than being a straight line. Including sadly the fingers of ow in the proverbial life pie. Mostly bc that sense of watching and waiting is rather tiring for you as a way to live.
Your first post said that with hindsight you think this was brewing for a couple of years pre BD, which is common. It would be unusual to see an MLCer come out of it quicker than they unravelled into it at least based on stories here. And there’s a lot of truth imho in the simple adage that if you are still confused, the game is still afoot.
What are you currently hoping for?
What would be an early solid marker of direction towards that for you?
What is your PoV about the issue of time?
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Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?
What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving? Isnt this more escape and avoid?
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Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?
What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving? Isnt this more escape and avoid?
I do not believe I am in reconciliation. I know that reconnection doesn't necessarily = reconciliation. I do think we are still in escape and avoid. For me, silence hasn't been broken and we have had no direct discussion about our relationship in over 3 months now. I think for true reconciliation to happen they have to accept responsibility, but from what I have read, that can take a while to occur.
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Does reconciliation only take place once the MLCer has acknowledged what they did, take full responsibility, show genuine remorse, and work to make things right?
What if they never accept responsibility and continue to blame OW for them leaving? Isnt this more escape and avoid?
I do not believe I am in reconciliation. I know that reconnection doesn't necessarily = reconciliation. I do think we are still in escape and avoid. For me, silence hasn't been broken and we have had no direct discussion about our relationship in over 3 months now. I think for true reconciliation to happen they have to accept responsibility, but from what I have read, that can take a while to occur.
How long is a while, in general?
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Mostly bc that sense of watching and waiting is rather tiring for you as a way to live.
Your first post said that with hindsight you think this was brewing for a couple of years pre BD, which is common. It would be unusual to see an MLCer come out of it quicker than they unravelled into it at least based on stories here. And there’s a lot of truth imho in the simple adage that if you are still confused, the game is still afoot.
It is exhausting. That makes a lot of sense... I know that it isn't over. I just never imagined it would still be this hard over a year out. I do feel like he is at least around 18 months into reply/emotional regression or escape/avoid.
What are you currently hoping for?
What would be an early solid marker of direction towards that for you?
What is your PoV about the issue of time?
I mean ideally hoping for reconciliation, but I guess I wish it was more clear to me what direction I should take. I hope that at some point I will know for sure if it is time to walk away. I don't know if there is a solid marker or if it will just be something I am more sure of over time? I am a high anxiety person and tend to try to base all my decisions on research and best practice data otherwise I get frozen. Learning all I can about a topic is how I've dealt with my anxiety. I've taken medication periodically in the past, but if I can function without them, I prefer to not be on them. As for time, I had given myself till at least the end of the school year, and then said I would reassess at that time. I set this timeline almost a year ago before I really learned about MLC, and it seemed so long at the time. Now, it seems like that is approaching rather quickly, and I guess it scares me a bit. I have moved forward with my own growth in so many ways, but I also feel isolated by my stand. I don't share it because many people wouldn't understand, but I at the same time feel like I am trying to hide something or that I am not living authentically.
I am also tired from keeping up with everything on my own--parenting, working, meals, house, etc. I have always had the mental load, but I lately I feel like--ALL THE THINGS make me want to scream and go on strike-- I have to cook another meal or take out the trash again, or get up and get my younger two up and moving. My middle did just get her DL, which has helped with some of the load. I just had to give myself permission to have my oldest son pick up pizza for tonight.
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How long is a while, in general?
I have read that for some people to take full ownership has taken a couple of years, but often they show actions before they show words.
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How long is a while, in general?
I have read that for some people to take full ownership has taken a couple of years, but often they show actions before they show words.
A "couple of years" is relative..... A couple of years from what starting point?
What does green taste like?
Some here have been reconnecting for several years now (Songanddance, Barbie) and their MLC'ers are still avoiding responsibility. Acorn, on the other hand, has a former MLC'er that has stepped up to the plate and accepted their part in the $#!tshow they created.....
Thinking that, after a certain amount of time, something magic is going to happen is akin to poking yourself in the nose with a Barbecue fork.....
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Well it's been a couple more weeks. I still feel in general he is moving closer. Trying to let go of expectations continues to be hard. I think that rather than letting go--after a while you just become trained to understand a+b does not always equal c. I find myself more tired even though things haven't been bad.
This month, In the last 20 days he has spent 12 nights at home and has been at the house I think at 18 days. The other night he was being very clingy--saying he loved me, that I was amazing, that I was USUALLY RIGHT, beautiful, a high value woman, and on him mind constantly....and I pushed a little. I got some projection and a little bit of anger, but nothing like previous times, and at some point he even said that in a couple of days we will get over this and be back to how we have been (not together but not apart either), and told me about discussing being married with a younger MC member I have never met. I asked if MC member knew he was married because I assumed he had just been pretending we were not together anymore when he was out with them/new people, and he said that he did.
He invited me to go on a ride with him this weekend (Fri-Sun). This is a ride that the went on with his buddies that I have known for our entire relationship, and it was an annual ride that they have taken for many years, but I was unable to join due to obligations with our children and school. Also, he didn't go on this ride in the last year. This time, I have a friend helping with my youngest, and my older two can drive, so I am taking off work on Friday to go. Taking off work to enjoy life is also growth for me. I have always felt so much obligation to be "responsible."
Other things that have happened. Our D16 totaled her car--not fun. I called him and he answered (it was Saturday night and I didn't think he would). After he knew I was handling it and that she was Ok, he still met us at the house and stayed. In months past, after finding out she was ok, I feel like he would have just let me handle it and checked on her the next day. He has also told me I can ask for anything I need for the kids and he will change or cancel his plans if he has to--I feel like this is a change in mindset because even pre-crisis I was having to handle many things because of his motorcycle club conflicts.
Do they sometimes think about returning home, but refuse to admit it to themselves or follow through because of pride? I feel like often he makes excuses for the reasons he stays--sometimes he admits he wants to see me, but often it is weather, work the next morning, etc. Even though he now seems to see me in a different light, and he has accepted that there were things that he could have handled differently with the kids in the last couple of years, I don't think that he is really ready to admit or own up to all the lies, mistreatment, and broken promises with us.
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Journaling...
We went on our weekend ride. It was interesting for several reasons. This trip is one that he has taken with his childhood buddies for years. He used to ride with them before he got involved in MC (motorcycle club which I think has been a big part of replay). I have never been able to go because our kids were younger and I didn't have anyone that could fill in. He didn't go on it the last year. These guys are like family to him. I thought they knew we were kind of separated. I never said anything, but I got the feeling that they were not aware. There were several occasions where it seemed to me that he carefully crafted sentences or made statements to avoid any reference to the fact that he has been living in the RV. I also observed certain things about his behavior and desire for approval and recognition that I had never noticed before --I think it was there, I just never recognized it as such. Since he has never taken me on this trip before, he could have easily gone without me this time. So, I think it was a positive.
At this point, he has chosen to spend 16 out of 24 nights this month with me, and as been by the house and spent time there pretty much every day of those 24.
I am also starting to learn more about God's message to me to --"BE STILL." Originally, I had taken it as not pushing or trying to make something happen, but to learn to wait. Recently I have realized that sometimes, it means not responding, reacting, or arguing my points. I have realized that sometimes, when I don't say anything in reaction to unreasonable statements or decisions, he rethinks and will come back with something that makes more sense, but if I argue, it makes him dig his heels in.
I do believe that he has been a high energy replayer --he engaged in high energy replay activity for well over a year (about 17-18 months). I think he is still in replay, but it seems to be less high energy. Does replay "wind down" gradually? From what I have read, it seems like it is a downhill slope toward depression. An analogy that I could make, it seems like it can be a swing slowing down--it keeps going but loses altitude over time and will eventually stop.
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Some here have been reconnecting for several years now (Songanddance, Barbie) and their MLC'ers are still avoiding responsibility. Acorn, on the other hand, has a former MLC'er that has stepped up to the plate and accepted their part in the $#!tshow they created.....
Thinking that, after a certain amount of time, something magic is going to happen is akin to poking yourself in the nose with a Barbecue fork.....
Last weekend we went on a trip for the weekend, and it went pretty well. I have the feeling that his oldest friends in the world don't have any idea of the magnitude of the upheaval that has gone on between us. That at least tells me that he isn't sure enough of anything to make it solid by sharing with people that matter.
He definitely seems to be spending more and more time at home. He works from there as many days as he can (when he goes into the office, he doesn't actually work with people in person so he might as well work from home), and has spent the night there 10 days out of the last 14. Two days ago he made the kids take out all the trash (while I was out walking) after I mentioned it was trash day, yesterday he did all of his laundry and put it away (most of his clothes have been at the house the whole time), and he unloaded and loaded the dishwasher and cleaned up kitchen --again while I was out walking. These are not big things, but definitely positive signs since he has little to none of these things for well over a year now.
He has admitted that he handled some things with our kids poorly in the past (when he was in the anger stage he was very reactive and argumentative with teenagers as well). Issues that we fought about in the past where he angered me or was derogatory in some way (and I let him know), have been rephrased or handled differently when they come up again Example: Discussing the concept of being a stay at home mom--I'm a teacher and we never even discussed me staying at home, but at one point (our youngest was already 10) when discussing he made me sound like he believed I was negligent and selfish because I had worked --I said that was unfair because I didn't decide that all on my own and we had never discussed it, but when this came up recently he front loaded by saying that we decided that I would work, but if he could do it again he thinks he would try to see if we could work that out.
We are 18 months from first bomb drop that I suspect was the beginning of replay, (he said he wanted a divorce and was really mean, but within a couple of hours was begging and pleading for forgiveness and said he didn't know what was wrong with him), but he was engaging in replay behaviors by then. The bomb drop that truly clued me in to what was really going on was only 14 months ago. I suspect he might be at the end of replay and kind of swinging back and forth between replay and depression/liminality.
In reading Hearts Blessings materials, she said that MLCers will sometimes sneak home, where they just gradually return. I get the feeling that he is not ready for discussions at this point. However, I am thinking that if we do continue down this path, we have to have a conversation at some point. I know that several others have been in reconnection for a while. Do I wait to see if he will come to me?
Advice or insight appreciated!
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In reading Hearts Blessings materials, she said that MLCers will sometimes sneak home, where they just gradually return. I get the feeling that he is not ready for discussions at this point. However, I am thinking that if we do continue down this path, we have to have a conversation at some point. I know that several others have been in reconnection for a while. Do I wait to see if he will come to me?
Advice or insight appreciated!
Hi Happylight,
you seem to be doing well : well done ! And you have seen that when you "ARE STILL", you husband is moving in the right direction. And well, to be true, at a slower pace than you may wish ? (see snail/turtle drawing)
Even if I am no expert in reconnection phase, I understand your need/want of THE CONVERSATION. I often have also the temptation to engage it, then I remember that doing nothing is sometimes the best way of action. You write it yourself : I get the feeling that he is not ready for discussions at this point.. I guess you can trust your feeling.
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We are 18 months from first bomb drop that I suspect was the beginning of replay, (he said he wanted a divorce and was really mean, but within a couple of hours was begging and pleading for forgiveness and said he didn't know what was wrong with him), but he was engaging in replay behaviors by then. The bomb drop that truly clued me in to what was really going on was only 14 months ago. I suspect he might be at the end of replay and kind of swinging back and forth between replay and depression/liminality.
I get the feeling that he is not ready for discussions at this point. However, I am thinking that if we do continue down this path, we have to have a conversation at some point.
Be careful of stage watching. Reconnection will happen very slowly and the spouse will be the last person to reconnect with.
Correct - there is no point having any kind of discussions yet for quite a while and if there are to be any they need to be organic and "spontaneous". You cannot say to an MLCer in early stages of reconnection " We need to talk".
Just be still and let it be......
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For what it’s worth, If I could do it all over again? I would have exited door left and allowed my now XH to just live the life completely how he thought he wanted. Conversations and savior thinking just can’t help the situation. They need time to clear their warped thinking and see it all more clearly. For the LBS however it is so hard to do.
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For what it’s worth, If I could do it all over again? I would have exited door left and allowed my now XH to just live the life completely how he thought he wanted. Conversations and savior thinking just can’t help the situation. They need time to clear their warped thinking and see it all more clearly. For the LBS however it is so hard to do.
It is so very hard to do--especially when they are in and out! I started tracking since I think he has been increasing--he spent 11 nights away from the house in March, and I think there was only one day we didn't see him at all. He was at the house from Tuesday -Saturday morning this last week. I was preparing myself because I could tell he was getting stressed by week end. He left Saturday afternoon and I have only heard from him on a few limited things--he did respond immediately when I sent text regarding our daughter's softball schedule this week. Nothing about this is fair, and the fact is, ending my stand isn't going to fix the fact that I still have to continue to be the defacto parent in the house.
This Sunday at church was the story of the prodigal son. I have heard many lessons on this through the years. I saw and heard it in a different light this weekend. One aspect was a line about the son--"When he returned to himself," (I am not sure what translation it is), but I was like--Was he having an MLC? The other thing that stood out me was a part about the father covering the son's shame, which he did by welcoming him back, giving him clothing and sandals. We are called to be like the father, but often as the standing spouse, we feel like the other son. The one who stayed and did the right thing and become angry because they feel they aren't recognized. I am trying to hold on to this now.
It is odd some of the changes I am seeing that I didn't notice earlier. His music choices seem to be returning back....he used to be a classic rock guy and he changed over to outlaw country slowly over time before the bomb drop....I am now hearing classic rock again frequently. He switched his preferred drink from Whiskey to tequila a few months prior to bomb drop, and now has switched back. He always wore white undershirts and switched to black undershirts and now has switched back to white (the imagery of the old white hat cowboys vs blackhat cowboys comes to mind here). These are small things, but it is so crazy to see these things happening. I am hoping the switch back is a good sign.
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You will find with time so many things yourself more clearly. We are so focused on them and what they are doing for so long and when they are in the picture it is hard to disconnect and see things only from Your view. My XH hated country music and was all of a sudden buying country for his ipod on itunes. I found an email list of songs from his unreciprocated OW3 and that explained that.
After the divorce when I was transferring music for him I asked if there was anything I didn’t need to transfer over. He said, you can get rid of all the country. 😂🤣 Also, once I discovered OWife he said, she just lets me be. Well, he was buying nair by the buckets with rubber gloves and scrubbies. D33 told me, OWife said she will not deal with any man hair. It all has to go!! Well, XH body is a bear. Buckets of nair make sense now. So much for being accepted as is 😂🤣
They just do the craziest things and their logic is insanity. It is hard to watch and hard not to point out . Its all a train wreck you desperately want to watn them of, but they are standing in front of the train on the track and they cant hear you. So, you can’t save them.
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Another night at home. I have noticed that he starts to seem overwhelmed and struggles to deal with some of the chaos that the kids cause, but seems to be aware of it and try to contain it. That is stressful for me because 1)I HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT ALL THE TIME (and don't get to runaway 2) I try to mitigate their chaos to make things less stressful because I want him to be there for the kids 3) I fear negative emotions just make him want to leave (which I do know isn't my problem). My stand has little impact on the parenting. If I end my stand, it won't change this part of my role. I also have made every effort to reduce impact of this on my kids.
He lived at home for 3 months after bomb drop because there was not any availability at the RV park. After he moved out (11 months ago) He was never a vanisher, but There were months where we didn't see him for several days at a time and he didn't spend the night at home for several months. It first started with a night every now and then. Then maybe once or twice a week. He now seems to be averaging being home every day and spending the night 2 out of 3 nights on average.
All my life I have been an avid reader. I loved to read. Since crisis started, I cannot seem to get into reading anymore. It is really sad to me, and I don't understand why. I have listened to a few audio books, but most have been self-help style books. Has anybody else experienced this? I have several new hobbies, learning piano, crochet, plus I have been cooking from scratch more, working out daily, and doing bible reflection on a daily basis. I just really wish I could find my love for reading again. I pick books up and nothing seems to catch me like it used to, and when I do read I find myself forcing to finish instead of tearing through books in a day or two.
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All my life I have been an avid reader. I loved to read. Since crisis started, I cannot seem to get into reading anymore. It is really sad to me, and I don't understand why. I have listened to a few audio books, but most have been self-help style books. Has anybody else experienced this? I have several new hobbies, learning piano, crochet, plus I have been cooking from scratch more, working out daily, and doing bible reflection on a daily basis. I just really wish I could find my love for reading again. I pick books up and nothing seems to catch me like it used to, and when I do read I find myself forcing to finish instead of tearing through books in a day or two.
I couldn't read for quite a long time. My own understanding is that the same "space" where I would read is where I would experience anxiety. The anxiety was much more charismatic and sucked up all the oxygen leaving little room for anything particularly "intellectual". I picked up more hands-on hobbies like hiking and working out.
In my case, I let the books pile up. I stopped trying. I gave up control. I had the thought that forcing myself was a type of self-inflicted violence "for my own good". I decided to trust that I knew what was truly for my own good and listen to that part of me that was protesting. I would still order ones that sounded interesting but wouldn't even bother to open them. Slowly (UNBEARABLY slowly), eventually, the joy and curiosity returned. I'm now back to my normal reading habit, though a little bit more judicious and exotic. I drop books left and right these days, whereas before I would always finish them. I still have that book pile, but the elements have all turned over. Like life, nothing really ends you just flow through it.
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I couldn't really focus on books for a while and I too am an avid reader. I did keep reading (slowly) and I went for short stories, or books with simplicity e.g. I read Christ Stopped at Eboli, The Salt Path, among others. Both are about paring life right back to basics, and are also very beautiful. For me in the wake of BD, my mind was racing around - I think that is a symptom of the trauma, being sort of hyper alert. So the slowness of these books was great. A lot of great literature involves us entering imaginatively into another world or context though and it's hard to do this when we are utterly consumed with what has recently happened. When we are trying to makes sense of our own immediate world. Anyway, try not to worry, this joy, and many others, will come back.
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After the Atomic BD, I was in the middle of a launch campaign for a satellite and up to my ears in documentation. Reading the excruciatingly detailed technical stuff was OK for me (that Hyper-focus KayDee mentioned) because it gave me a very specific focus to work on but, other than that, I couldn't even read a newspaper.... I'd forget what article I was reading if I had to go to Page 3. I tried to continue reading one of the "for fun" books I had started before ABD and could NOT follow the story line more than a page....
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I agree with everybody here! I'm also a massive reader and 2 years post BD I'm getting back into it slowly.. But it still takes me a lot of willpower to turn to a book instead of devices or TV.
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I could read all about MLC and related topics with no issues, but couldn’t handle TV shows at all and was a lover of crafts and I could not do anything creative at all. It took 2 years before I could. For me, my brain was just so overwhelmed with the tragedy and confusion of it all. Just the basic “ I can’t even think straight” so wasn’t capable of anything normal for a while.
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I could read all about MLC and related topics with no issues, but couldn’t handle TV shows at all and was a lover of crafts and I could not do anything creative at all. It took 2 years before I could. For me, my brain was just so overwhelmed with the tragedy and confusion of it all. Just the basic “ I can’t even think straight” so wasn’t capable of anything normal for a while.
I do think part of my problem is the brain overload--both piano and crochet are new skills for me, but I can't push too hard on the learning. I easily become frustrated when it is challenging. I am learning, but taking it slowly. I try to work on those things for like 10 minutes a day at least. Maybe I need to rebuild my reading capacity also.
More time spent at home. Like I've shared before, its hard when he's there so much. He is at the house so much, and it is hard to say exactly what is changed, but when you've been around somebody for so long, you can pick up on a lot of changes in person even if you can't always put a finger on exactly what it is. He seems much less angry than he was, and also less manic. He isn't working out anymore (which he actually has worked out regularly pretty much our entire relationship). He is spending a lot of time at the house scrolling on his phone, playing video games, or he will ask if I want to watch TV. Spends lots of time there, but then will be gone for a night or two, and sometimes comes to the house and works from home in between. He's sleeping a lot--like 9-10 hours a night and then will still take a nap.
A couple of things have happened. One, there were pretty big layoffs at his work. He kind of expressed to that it was stressful because people he had worked with for a long time got laid off. I also, had a mishap with weights while I was working out and ended up with a bruise on my face (honestly I'm lucky that it's only a small bruise). He has expressed concern that people are going to think he hit me-only like 10 people in my life have any idea what is going on with us. He even texted me and asked if anybody asked me about it. I think its really interesting because although it hasn't been physical abuse, I feel like what he has put me through has been worse. What if everything he has done left a mark that showed on the outside?
I know that not everybody understands or supports standing for your marriage. From what I understand, many who are abused feel ashamed. I know that none of it is my fault, but I won't share what I am going through because many will make me feel ashamed for standing and not leaving. I am not going to judge others for divorcing, but in my mind, when you say "For better or worse," people don't really mean it. They mean for better or not so good, but they don't truly have any idea what "worse" can actually look like.
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Happylight,
Two things you said resonated with me
What if everything he has done left a mark that showed on the outside?
I thought about this too and was so thankful that people couldn't see the damage from the outside. At least people who didn't know me couldn't tell (unless I was crying). I can see how some may find healing in expressing this in art or something like that. I had the image in my mind of him taking a flame thrower to me psychologically.
This also allowed me to have a tiny inkling of what people who are physically damaged by someone else have to go through since that damage is both visible and invisible. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of seeing and having such a reminder of the abuse with a physical manifestation. The Boston Marathon bombings happened during the early stages and my mind couldn't even comprehend being a runner and surviving the damage from that. I still can't imagine.
I know that not everybody understands or supports standing for your marriage.
Yes, I used to think, "throw them to the curb" when hearing about infidelity. I understand it is complicated and don't judge people for standing or divorce. I do advocate for LBS healing as paramount either way.
This is so hard, any way we look at it.
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I could read all about MLC and related topics with no issues, but couldn’t handle TV shows at all and was a lover of crafts and I could not do anything creative at all. It took 2 years before I could. For me, my brain was just so overwhelmed with the tragedy and confusion of it all. Just the basic “ I can’t even think straight” so wasn’t capable of anything normal for a while.
I so wish there was a "Yeah, that^^^^" button. I also could read anything mlc, but a book? Nope. Short story even, nope. Creative, nope. Brain was stuck between overdrive (what happened, how to deal with it, getting a job, taking care of kids, etc) and exhaustion. I didn't dream for many years that I could remember.
As to what other people say to you, they aren't living your life. You have to process this in your own way. People here will give you suggestions based on their own experience and a lot of us started out standing, then something happened to change that. Some are still standing after years and years. The only thing most everyone here will tell you is to make sure you take care of yourself. You didn't cause this, you can't fix it. You can't nice him back. I had an 18 month live in and I stood until. My until was when he filed for divorce. At that point, for me, that marriage was done. If he ever came back, it'd be a different relationship. Everyone's mileage will vary. But mine started coming home late and leaving the front door unlocked or even open. That was a no go for me as I had children in the house so I told him home by midnight or the extra lock goes on. I was not putting our lives in danger. He only missed that one time because I locked him out, so he never missed "curfew " again. He could be as angry as he wanted, our safety came first.
But I sure got tired of people saying I should be "over it by now" whenever that now was. Sorry, Bucko, you don't get to tell me when I'm over it. Each of us gets to choose how we move forward with our life, and you can change your mind weekly, daily, hourly if you want.
Live ins are very hard. I joined meetups (coloring, ghost hunting and driving off road) because they didn't take any true brain processing power, but did take me away from reality for a short time. Just a suggestion.
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Live ins are very hard. I joined meetups (coloring, ghost hunting and driving off road) because they didn't take any true brain processing power, but did take me away from reality for a short time. Just a suggestion.
I don't have a true live in. He stayed for almost 3.5 months after bomb drop (I think he was waiting for a spot at the RV park to open up), then he didn't spend a night at the house for 4 months after he moved out (maybe once randomly), but then in September of 23 started spending a night or two a week. The last two months he has spent around 4 nights a week at home, and comes over almost every day even when he doesn't stay. As much as I hated when he was gone full time, it has been a different challenge for me to find my equilibrium with the back and forth. Its hard on me, but he sees the kids more, and he is treating me well. I have also noticed, that if somebody tells him or asks him to stay or come over when he is gone, he will usually use the excuse to come over--for example, my son asked him if he could move his motorcycle in the garage on a Saturday, so he ended up coming over and spending the night. It's really frustrating because I keep thinking, well maybe he will just stay, and then he leaves again....
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I have also noticed, that if somebody tells him or asks him to stay or come over when he is gone, he will usually use the excuse to come over--for example, my son asked him if he could move his motorcycle in the garage on a Saturday, so he ended up coming over and spending the night. It's really frustrating because I keep thinking, well maybe he will just stay, and then he leaves again....
This is why face-huggers (see below) aka Clinging Boomrangs
(https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbGZwa2R1Nm1xbWV2dWx2bWN6dWVwcHV2bzZ6N3BxcGoyZjNlbmxnbiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/l3V0d6rmSuzSwcb0Q/giphy.gif)
can be so hard on our mental health and equilibrium..... Those pesky anticipations/expectations keep popping up..... and then we end up disappointed when things don't pan out. This is where it is so crucial (and so freaking difficult) to NOT have any expectations....
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Those pesky anticipations/expectations keep popping up..... and then we end up disappointed when things don't pan out. This is where it is so crucial (and so freaking difficult) to NOT have any expectations....
I literally tell myself over and over--he's going to leave, he's going to leave, but I guess that is an expectation as well. I mentally can say, no expectations, but my emotions don't always play along.
Its been a few weeks and the pattern has continued. He has been spending at least 4 nights a week at the house, and even when he leaves he is usually there until 6 or 7 pm. This weekend I again got some I love yous, and you are an amazing mother. It will be kind of sporadic that he decides he feels very intensely about me. I have seen that he feels drained and tired by the kids sometimes, but I haven't seen "monster" since around Thanksgiving. I realized that I haven't gone over to the RV in over 6 months now. I don't know if that has impacted his choices--knowing that I am not going to come to him.
I have seen that he seems more engaged with the kids, and I wonder if he notices the tiny steps that they are taking in his direction--like my D17 going into his office to seek him out when she got back from her band trip, or my D12 asking him to change the hallway light bulbs outside her room (he was kind of amazed at how much reaction he got from her for doing this). For months, they haven't asked things of him around the house or sought him out unless they absolutely had to.
I am working hard on just keeping on with my life, but I do find I am tired. It is hard that I can't ask for anything in terms of my emotional needs, and I usually only ask for support with tasks when I literally need to be in two places at once.
Lately he has made more comments to me about how he needs to workout (he hasn't in about 4 months now), he's gaining weight, and he feels old.
I have noticed so many tiny changes to habits that are interesting to observe: changed back to whiskey as drink of choice (tequila had been in for about 18 months), switched back to white undershirts, music preferences leaning back toward more classic rock, switched back to lace-up boots for daily wear instead of wearing his motorcycle boots all the time, only is taking his bike out like once a week instead of multiple nights and weekend rides. The biggest one for me is he just seems much less angry in general. For a couple of years he was so angry and irrational and couldn't have rational discussions about topics. I was aware of this, but thought it was just the MLC that people talked about, and that I would have to weather the storm. I have watched the stuff about bomb drop and not really being multiple bombs drops etc. I know that we have been in this turmoil for 2-2.5 years with multiple bomb drops, replay behavior for about 19-20 months, 15 months since he said he wanted to move out (when I realized MLC is really deep), and we are coming up on a year since he "moved out." I put moved out in quotations, because he never really moved out...he just took the RV out of storage and started spending time there.
This end of school year time is always so hectic. I had promised myself I would stand at least through the end of the school year, and then reassess. It seemed like such a long time when I set that goal. The end of this month marks a year since he moved out, his 50th birthday, and the end of the school year. We have seen definite progress, but I still don't know where we will end up. I don't have any idea how to handle his birthday this year. So many things I don't ask and don't say. I promised myself I wouldn't put him in a position to have to lie to me since I think it would just cause more damage. I don't know that he is doing anything that he would have to lie to me about , but I don't know for sure, so I ask very few questions.
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Struggling. I should be happy, right.? Things are heading in the right direction. He just spent a solid week here—the longest time in a year -and was actually present and connected for it, which hasn't happened in probably ????? He’s calm, we aren’t arguing or fighting.
I am wiped out. I am so tired. I am struggling to make myself do all the things that need to be done. When he’s away, I distract myself and stay busy and I get a lot done. Right now I just feel like my tank is just empty and I find it very frustrating. I still have no answers or information other than anecdotal based on observations and years of knowing a person. I don’t feel angry or sad—just tired.
He joked this week about his AARP invitation he got in the mail. He was very grateful for some things I did for him and for the kids. He has told me to just do what I think is best because he trusts me when I asked for advice on something financial. He cleaned and reorganized his office here at the house. He has spent a lot of time playing his video game, which he hasn’t done for about a year.
I feel like lots of positives, but not knowing where the finish line is or even if there is one is hard.
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Fwiw - and a lot of us know that feeling - I think that kind of deep tired is a sign that your current approach (whatever it is) is taking too much from you. So, it’s perhaps a signal that a change in what you do, or more likely your mindset about what you’re doing, might need a refresh.
I feel like lots of positives, but not knowing where the finish line is or even if there is one is hard.
I can see that your ‘hands off’ approach is giving your h the freedom to come and go as he pleases, and that this approach is producing some of the positives you see. I’m assuming that, bc of that, you probably don’t want to change your approach. And as you obviously know all too well, you can’t control his behaviour. So it seems to me that the only thing left is to change your mindset a bit, the frame if you like that you are putting around what’s happening.
Others who, unlike me, have lived through something like this will hopefully come along with their insights. But I wondered if you can try to turn off that sense of waiting for that ‘finish line’. What if you knew there wasn’t one? Or that it’s beyond your imagination right now and behind quite a few curves in the path yet to come? If you tried to find a way to live in the moment, what might that look like? Can you find a way to be mostly content with the life you have right now as opposed to what might be? Or do your actions now only make sense to you if you feel you are investing in that finish line?
No easy answers, I know. And very personal. Really not a one size fits all. But if you can’t change the current situation with your h, and you don’t want to change your current approach, then all I can see left is to change how you think about both the situation and your approach.
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I can see that your ‘hands off’ approach is giving your h the freedom to come and go as he pleases, and that this approach is producing some of the positives you see. I’m assuming that, bc of that, you probably don’t want to change your approach. And as you obviously know all too well, you can’t control his behaviour. So it seems to me that the only thing left is to change your mindset a bit, the frame if you like that you are putting around what’s happening.
You are correct in the thought that what I am hesitant to change things because we do seem to be making progress. I don't know if he still leaves because he is still taking space. He was gone less than 24 hours this time--left around 5 pm and was back home by 10AM, and pretty much stayed in contact with me most of the evening. I would like to ask where he goes or what he's doing, but as I said, I don't want to put him in any situation to lie to me, and the times he is leaving seem to be fewer and growing shorter in duration.
He spent time this weekend, cleaning his office, which was the one area in the house I haven't touched in the last year. He ordered two new swiffer mops for the house--one for upstairs and one for downstairs. He has been directing the kids to do their chores and putting our youngest to bed....something that hasn't happened in a year. He's been thanking me for cooking and doing other tasks (that I've been doing all along), and when I leave for work in the morning he tells me to give him a hug.
I'm wondering if eventually he will open a discussion, or if he gradually just wants to return to the "before."
My fatigue may also be related to the fact that it is the end of the school year, I work in education and we are all just exhausted at this point. Tempers run high and tolerance and energy seem to be low. Add to that the 1 ZILLION things kids have at the end of school year that I am trying to balance as well.
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He continues to be at home, but nothing has been "said." The other night he went to a bike event and I was super suprised when he came back that evening. I didn't comment at all--I really don't know if he is looking for a reaction or not.
I get the sense that sometimes our kids and all their events and all the noise (especially our youngest) is overwhelming. **Sarcasm warning** I get it, its overwhelming for me too, and some of us haven't had a break from it in the last 18 months--while others, well, have gotten to be part time parents. There are so many things that I think in my head, but don't actually say out loud.
Journaling events: He cleaned up the kitchen for me and told me to rest when I got home from work. He also was changing out exhaust fans in the bathroom. He hadn't really done any tasks around the house in the last year +. Even when he is going to leave, he comes over and hangs out at the house.
Our son's 21st birthday is Friday, and he plans to be here to celebrate, but he did tell me he "has someplace he as to be" this weekend. I am thinking MC business, but I don't know for sure, and I didn't ask. I do wonder if he even remembers that it is mother's day. He has never been good about remembering that ahead of time (even in the good days), and sometimes hasn't even really done anything for it, so I guess this year probably won't be any different.
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Journaling a bit.
There has been another shift in behavior. We went from him staying at the house 4 nights a week (for about the last 3 months) back to one or two . He has also been spending less time at the house in general. He turned 50 last week. We didn't do anything much (per his request), but I did cook him a nice dinner, made a dessert for him, and got him a present. Friday night he asked me to dinner, he told me had a great time, enjoyed spending time with me, and was very affectionate. He shared things about work, and trouble sleeping. Later, when we were at home, it seemed like he almost abruptly pulled back, and said he had to leave.
He is not spending much time on his motorcycle--I feel like he was constantly riding during the height or replay. On Friday, when I left, He said he was taking his bike, and It had been so long since he rode he had to charge his bike battery. He has had a big change at work (reorganization and new boss), and I do see evidence that he is diving into work. He had made comments in the past that he was tired of his job and the company and that he was doing the bare minimum to get by, but his current behavior contradicts that mentality. I can tell that, in general, he is going to bed early and sleeping a lot. I can tell because, when I am around him, he is going to bed early and getting up early, which was his behavior historically, but had not been that way in the last several years. He had been staying up late and sleeping in. In general, he seems calmer. He isn't getting worked up about politics or angry with the kids. I definitely had the phase of walking on eggshells where he was angry about everything--long before I knew what was going on. I haven't seen monster in 6 months now, and he had been coming out at least every couple weeks for a good year prior. In the past several months he is usually very supportive and complimentary of me. His driving does seem a bit more aggressive at times though. He does seem quieter in terms of communication. He sends me random texts at least once day---sometimes it is more, but if I don't reach out to him, he will usually send me something--a tweet he saw, a recipe, a link....random thoughts, but then there are stretches were he goes quiet (12-18 hours sometimes). If he doesn't respond to me, I won't text him again until he reaches out. When we talk, it does seem like often will jump on a reason to come over. He also teased me when I said I was waking up in the middle of the night that I should have called him and he would come over.
Looking back, I am pretty sure replay started around 20 months ago--maybe a little more. I know stage watching is dangerous, but just watching behavior patterns and knowing him for so long, I do feel he is in withdrawal and depression territory. He randomly messaged me that he noticed that a lot of Dads on popular TV shows are portrayed as useless or evil. He still shows no signs or indication of wanting to divorce or change financial arrangements and access. He shows no signs of making his own residence more permanent. He has also asked me why I don't ask him when I need to use his truck or why I haven't asked him to help with certain things. It is like he doesn't understand why I wouldn't reach out to him. Why I don't ask questions that might result in a lie, why I don't ask for help that he is going to fail to respond to. I haven't said these things to him, but I feel them and think them. The other night he was saying I should handle our daughter in a different manner at night, and I wanted to tell him, feel free to be here and handle it then, but I didn't. I just agreed that something was a problem and moved on. This biting my tongue and not making sarcastic comments is a big change for me--Staying quite, standing still, praying a lot.
I was looking forward to end of the school year because I was feeling quite tired, but this week, with more down time, I have been feeling a bit more melancholy. Even though it is just a year, there is a big difference between this year and last year in terms of how much the kids need me or how much they are out of the house too. At one point, my goal was to stand till the end of this school year, and it seemed such a long time. I wonder if that is another thing that is causing me to flail around a bit. I never said that I was going to end things at the end of the school year, but rather that I refused to take any action before then.
Anybody have insight into a Clinging Boomerang and how the Depression and Withdrawal impacts them? I've been reading again trying to gain insight, and did read that those that engaged in an affair feel a very deep sense and almost overwhelming sense of shame on the other side. We haven't discussed in a while, but the last time he mentioned the umbrella of " all the things in the past" he seems to not be able to believe that I would be able to let them go or forgive him.
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I posted previously that I have been struggling with reading for entertainment, which is something I loved my whole life. I feel like I have made a little progress on that front. I have been listening to some audio books, and it seems to be having some impact on my desire to read again. I had a coworker publish a book, which I finished in about 3 days.
As a teacher, the shift to summer is an adjustment for me. I have a tendency to think I should have to take a bit to adjust, but maybe I need to allow myself more grace in transitioning. I think that also, there is a bit of adrenaline and focus that pushes me through the end of the school year craziness, and that let down along with fatigue can take a minute to get past.
It is weird that his current behavior has some elements of drawing closer, but other elements of distance. His affection for me feels a lot more connected and not manic like it has been in the past year (once we got past the I'm not in love with you anymore bit), but instances are further apart. He's sharing some things about work, but not necessarily other things that are going on. I don't ask about things because I don't want any lies, but maybe I should ask about things more? Maybe he thinks I am not interested or don't care? I know that trying to figure them out is exhausting and I should try to detach and not worry about it. I have gotten better. I do think that some of my fatigue is do to the constant trying to keep myself in check, biting my tongue, not saying everything I think, not starting fights, and not making demands. None of those things will help, but it is work to control all my instincts.
For now, I guess I focus on me and continue forward. I am thinking about taking on some projects around the house--Just worried that I will regret that once I get started.
He is also talking about taking a family vacation this summer --apparently our youngest asked him if we were going anywhere on vacation this summer. He was talking about plans and messaging a friend about a beach house. We will see...
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I posted previously that I have been struggling with reading for entertainment, which is something I loved my whole life. I feel like I have made a little progress on that front. I have been listening to some audio books, and it seems to be having some impact on my desire to read again. I had a coworker publish a book, which I finished in about 3 days.
As a teacher, the shift to summer is an adjustment for me. I have a tendency to think I should have to take a bit to adjust, but maybe I need to allow myself more grace in transitioning. I think that also, there is a bit of adrenaline and focus that pushes me through the end of the school year craziness, and that let down along with fatigue can take a minute to get past.
maybe I should ask about things more? Maybe he thinks I am not interested or don't care? I know that trying to figure them out is exhausting and I should try to detach and not worry about it. I have gotten better.
I imagine we have all been there Happy. I certainly have. Not so much now, but earlier on, I kept thinking somehow my 'responses' where wrong. But how can we respond to the barrage of mixed messages? Damned if we do, damned if we don't. And it is not us that is all over the place, cycling like crazy. Not us that, out of the blue, blamed and abandoned. I personally think if we stay civil and calm = Medal. Or better, Knighthood and/or canonization. I don't mean to be glib, but our spouse's crisis also throw us into our own crisis. And as we all know, it is traumatic and can have very real impacts on our mental and physical health. We really do need to attend to ourselves. That you are his calm and safe haven, that's good enough IMO. If this question really bothers you, you could say a one-off statement that expresses that you are open to hearing how things are with him (as long as you are strong enough that is).
As to the home improvement adventures - this was such a gift to me. I was left with a half-renovated house. I thought I could not bear to do any of it. One wet weekend I picked up a paintbrush, popped on an audio book, and well, now the house is beautifully mine :)
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That you are his calm and safe haven, that's good enough IMO.
As to the home improvement adventures - this was such a gift to me. I was left with a half-renovated house. I thought I could not bear to do any of it. One wet weekend I picked up a paintbrush, popped on an audio book, and well, now the house is beautifully mine :)
I have been much better at being the calm place and safe harbor.
I didn't start on any major home improvements, but I did put together some above ground garden beds, hauled home 16 50lb bags of soil, and planted a garden. I have also done little tasks around the house, like rearranging the back porch.
He has been a bit more affectionate. He also has been texting me at night when he gets back to the RV from his bike nights, and then again in the morning. He also found out that I had scheduled my colonoscopy and immediately offered to take me. He has been talking about work more and taking phone calls regarding his motorcycle club in front of me or where I can overhear. He spoke of the storm we had the other night, and asked if it woke me up. I mentioned that I wake up a lot at night and he asked if I think of him--I told him I did, which is true. I'm not sure what his point was in that, but I know he did want to hear that I think of him.
I need to make a plan for some other things I need to take on for myself this summer. I got my nails done today, and have plans to go to a friend's tomorrow for some pool time, and to visit my parents in the evening.
Still working on standing still...
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More journaling.
I have lots of positives. We had a nice family outing to the aquarium for Father's Day. I cooked him dinner and we gave him some gifts. He was very grateful and expressed appreciation and thanks. He seems to be continuing to try to improve on relationships with and reconnect with the children. He is spending a lot of time at the house playing his video game, but he does pick up tasks like taking out the trash (I swear he didn't do this for like 9 months even though he has been at the house frequently throughout) and small repair needs. His calmness continues. He also told us that he is making an effort to eliminate the use of certain curse words, which is not something that I had really complained about, so something he decided to do just on his own. I have noticed that the motorcycle club outings seem to be a little more of a task/to-do item, and he is participating in fewer outings with the club. He stayed at the RV for a few more nights than he had been, in the last few weeks, but this week was here Saturday-Tuesday away on Wednesday, and then back Thursday. He also surprised me last night when he got home from work by telling me to get dressed so we could go out for oysters. He shared more about things with work and motorcycle club members and interactions. I'm not sure if it is a negative or not, but a reorganization happened at work--he has a new boss and some additional duties as well as an intern(male) to supervise. He is having to put in a lot more hours to keep up with everything. On one hand, I see that it is wearing him out, but I can tell he enjoys mentoring the intern, and I think a part of him is rising to the new challenge. Before, it seemed like he was doing the bare minimum to get by at work, which he claimed to like, but I don't actually think he felt rewarded by it (this partly is just due to me knowing him and understanding his personality). Several things came up regarding kids and parenting and he was highly complimentary. When I expressed that I wished I had made some different decisions when they were younger, he told me "Stop that, you can't do that to yourself. You did the best you could with the information you had at the time, and you always went above and beyond to try to make sure you were making the best choice and doing all that you could to support the kids and put them on the right path." He also told me that as a club they were talking about having younger kids and he used me as an example for all that is required to keep things together and that not all the members have wives/mothers of their children that do as much and they needed to understand that it was a lot. I swear, he always acted like it was just what I was supposed to do and no big deal.
He also accepted an invitation to family event from my sister for the first time in 18 months.
So, I do feel like we are making progress. He expresses a lot of gratitude for me, he spends a lot of time here, he tells me he enjoys our time together, he has said he loves me and that he thinks I am the most beautiful women he has ever known--he doesn't say these things constantly, but has said them in the last few months. I just wish I knew what was going on inside. The turmoil appears to be gone. He doesn't speak of feelings, our relationship, or crisis-related events. I keep hoping that he will say, I am ready to be home full time. If possible, it seems like we are moving even slower than before. I am not sure because a lot of the work in this stage has less external indicators?
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Another week goes by.
I continue to see small changes. One this week, his job has changed in the last month due to reorg, and it has been fairly intense. New boss, additional responsibilities, more visibility---seems to be spending a lot more hours. I think they realized that they were drastically underutilizing him. He was honest and said for a while he was able to accomplish everything he needed to get done in about 3 hours of work a day--now has jumped up to 8 or more. It is tiring because he isn't used to it. I told him I was sorry that this transition has been hard, and his response was --don't be sorry, I am blessed that I have job security. This is not a guy that throws the word blessed around. Maybe God is working on him. I do worry that the job stress will make him feel like escaping again, but, I have also thought that it may be part of the withdrawal phase that he is burying himself in work. I have also thought that it might serve to ground him and give him purpose again in a positive way....regardless not in my control anyway.
He is also making a huge attempt to eliminate his use of foul language. I find this interesting because it wasn't something I really complained about, although our youngest daughter would make comments about it.
He has without saying anything spent the night at the house more and more. He has also skipped several bike events. I haven't encouraged him to quit or said a negative thing about the club at all....he just doesn't seem to have the energy for it.
He has been expressing a lot of gratitude for the things that I do for him--making him breakfast or picking something up at the store that he needs. I find this interesting because for years I have carried a lot of the load and didn't get many positives at all.
This weekend we were invited to a 1st birthday for my sister's baby--he hasn't been to any family event my family hosted for 18 months (although honestly there were several I just didn't invite him to). I asked him to come, and he agreed, but I thought he might decide not to come at the last minute (and he still could). However, he had something come up with the motorcycle club, and he told me he made arrangements to meet up with them after the party. So, he is making an effort to attend.
He had me a plan a family weekend at a cabin on a nearby lake for vacation.
In a lot of ways he is showing that he has no intention of leaving the family or separating more. He has shown that he does love me and is showing more respect for me than he did in several years leading up to crisis. However, he doesn't seem ready to come all the way home yet, and he is still not wearing his wedding ring. I can see him being one of those guys that just doesn't wear one. We discussed a MC buddy getting married, and I asked him if the guy even knew he was married, and he was like ---yeah he knows I am married. A year ago when I said something about being married, he was like, we aren't really (which of course yes we were, but he needed it to be like that in his head). He really still hasn't broken the silence. Sometimes, he will feel talkative and he shares things about work or his motorcycle club, but he still doesn't really talk about our relationship. I have gotten additional reminders to Be Still. I am trying. Closer, but still so far....
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I’d encourage you to try to take his behaviour at current moment face value (eg he is spending more time at home bc he wants to and you are not preventing him ) rather than reading too much more into its significance than that. Partly bc it seems to ebb and flow driven by things that probably are invisible to you rather than being a straight line. Including sadly the fingers of ow in the proverbial life pie. Mostly bc that sense of watching and waiting is rather tiring for you as a way to live.
Your first post said that with hindsight you think this was brewing for a couple of years pre BD, which is common. It would be unusual to see an MLCer come out of it quicker than they unravelled into it at least based on stories here. And there’s a lot of truth imho in the simple adage that if you are still confused, the game is still afoot.
What are you currently hoping for?
What would be an early solid marker of direction towards that for you?
What is your PoV about the issue of time?
Was there a reconciliation in the end?
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Can we just remove all of the posts about this? I don't know if any of them are relevant to my posts at all.
Done - I had to go into each post and remove it but thy are no longer in your thread... ...
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Well, it has been another month. Nothing is clearer. I thought we had made some break throughs and then we head back into the confusion.
In July we went on a family vacation. During this time, we completely operate as a normal family. So we haven't had an argument or disagreement or anything in months now. I haven't seen any monster in almost 9 months. In fact, he often sings my praises. When we went on the trip, we did have a disagreement about something. He misunderstood the way I reacted to something and was kind of rude about it. I said, that is not the way I meant it, you can't presume to know what I was thinking, and I am not going to continue to allow you to talk to me this way. I disengaged. A while later, he said he was sorry and that he understood what I was saying. He hugged me. He told the kids that their mother was an angel. A little while later he asked if I forgave him, and something he said made me wonder if he was asking for forgiveness for more than that. This was the first time he had asked for forgiveness for anything since the nuclear bomb drop 18 months prior. Since then, I do feel like he has pulled back some.
His comings and goings to the house don't really seem to have a pattern or predictability like they used to. He has actually been away a bit more than he was. However, last week he got sick, and he came here. Part of me saw that as good, he was sick and he came home for comfort. However, he then exposed me, and as a result, I ended up missing the first day of school with Covid.
There have also been several things that are weird. He texts me at 4AM a current picture of his parents' house that his brother sent--his parents passed away almost 20 years ago. On several occasions he has said things to me about plans (regarding kids) that he seems to think he talked to me about, but did not. Memory is definitely bad. He had some major changes at work, but seems very focused on it, but also stressed out by additional obligations and expectations. Besides the fact that he isn't here all the time, he doesn't really show any signs of trying to separate us. He still keeps most of his clothes and belongings here. He takes his dress shirts off when he comes over after work and leaves it on the end of the bed. If I'm not home when he expects me to be, he asks where I am. I just don't see signs that he is determined to actually end anything.
I am really trying to detach. It is really hard with the coming and going. Only I can know when I'm done, and part of me wants to stop with this because I am afraid it won't end and I need to let myself heal. However, another part of me is just not ready to let go, but am frustrated at that fact. It makes me want to shake things up. It seems like this should be easier by now.
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Maybe I missed it in previous posts but I have to ask: Is OW still in the picture? The fact that he comes and goes as he wishes is a red flag for me but that is just my take on things.
From way over here in the cheap seats, he's sitting on the fence and enjoying his cake... He has his family and he has whatever it is he has when he is not with you all...
Of course, I am a bit jaded/cynical too so take it with a few grains of salt......
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Most of us vets who have been here a while and read a lot of stories are a bit more cynical, I think, bc we see patterns that look familiar. Whereas, for you, this is your life and you’re in it and it’s more particular.
I agree with UM but I think the real issue tbh is what your own instinct is saying. One can speculate endlessly about why these folks do what they do - usually the answer is some version of ‘bc it works for me at the moment’. What might or might not work for you is rarely in the mix imho - one is a kind of appliance really.
So the real question is not why/what he’s doing but if it is acceptable to you as a way to live. If it is on balance, you’ll probably keep on the same path. If it isn’t on balance, then you’ll change your path and decide to say No, Not Like This and Not Until. Not to effect his behaviour, but to take more control over what you allow to come through your life door. And to ask yourself the question about what YOU are getting right now from this relationship as it is? Which often leads us to some squirmy realisations that are not easy either.
Imho - and it’s normal and common for LBS - that usually takes some kind of internal shift to believing that you are neither the problem nor the solution. And that can be a bit of a painful shift so many of us try to avoid it.
So, what do you feel you need most right now?
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I am really trying to detach. It is really hard with the coming and going. Only I can know when I'm done, and part of me wants to stop with this because I am afraid it won't end and I need to let myself heal. However, another part of me is just not ready to let go, but am frustrated at that fact. It makes me want to shake things up. It seems like this should be easier by now.
Some MLCers are like your husband. They leave all their possessions with you, go on vacations as a family, send pictures of family homes, not remember things that he talked to you about..all very much a part of their crisis.
It takes a very long time to get "easier". Many feel that the best way to detach is to limit contact or go no contact while other LBSers have always continued to have some contact with their spouses. In the end, we get to choose.
For myself, I think because I feel that his crisis is something that was unavoidable and not in his control, and the weirdness of it all, the abrupt and 180 degree changes in him, allowed me to want to be there for him should he need it...I also didn't want to dread if I had to encounter him or be upset by his existence, to heal and be able to be in his presence so that it does not shake me.
Over time (and it took a long time but I am glad I went this route) he remains an important part of our family and for that, I am grateful.
I haven't seen any monster in almost 9 months. In fact, he often sings my praises.
MLC is not about us or our marriage. They may leave us and we take that personally and it creates a huge wound in us, the betrayal, the abandonment, the rejection but really their crisis is something beyond the bonds of marriage...not all of them monster, certainly not all of them "hate" us and for many, once they get through their crisis, they will acknowledge to others and possibly even to us, that they never stopped loving us.
You go about building a life of your own.....live as though he is never coming back. Set boundaries if that feels comfortable to you. I believe acceptance of what is is more helpful than "detach"...for I see the word "detach" as trying to force me into something that doesn't fit...he was in my life for 35 years and will always remain important to me but I accept that he doesn't want than anymore...but he still wants a connection and I am willing to allow that.
My own view.
Create a life that is pleasing for you.....look after your family and find peace in knowing that you listen to your own inner self to make choices that are best for you and your family.
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Maybe I missed it in previous posts but I have to ask: Is OW still in the picture? The fact that he comes and goes as he wishes is a red flag for me but that is just my take on things.
From way over here in the cheap seats, he's sitting on the fence and enjoying his cake... He has his family and he has whatever it is he has when he is not with you all...
I honestly don't know --my gut was saying that she was gone for a while--but in the last couple months I am not as sure. I don't know a ton and he mostly would never even acknowledge the relationship, but I do know from snooping that she had two young children and neither father was around--honestly I think it was probably one of those situations where he became friends with her (she worked where he got his hair cut), and didn't expect it to turn into anything else because she was pregnant at the time. It could be someone new I guess. He monstered at me and villainized me pretty frequently for about 10 or 11 months. He accused me a lot of cheating on him. That stopped after a period where we had very minimal contact which was about 8 months ago.
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So the real question is not why/what he’s doing but if it is acceptable to you as a way to live. If it is on balance, you’ll probably keep on the same path. If it isn’t on balance, then you’ll change your path and decide to say No, Not Like This and Not Until. Not to effect his behaviour, but to take more control over what you allow to come through your life door. And to ask yourself the question about what YOU are getting right now from this relationship as it is? Which often leads us to some squirmy realisations that are not easy either.
Imho - and it’s normal and common for LBS - that usually takes some kind of internal shift to believing that you are neither the problem nor the solution. And that can be a bit of a painful shift so many of us try to avoid it.
So, what do you feel you need most right now?
I have reached the point where I realize I am not the problem or the solution. However, I think a lot of my kids. This has been hard, but they have no knowledge of anything outside knowing that we had a few arguments and that he isn't at the house all the time. A divorce would be another hit for them. Also, if I am really honest, it would feel like I quit or gave up (although it may not be accurate), is not something I do not do easily at all. I am a person that commits to things and sticks with them--jobs, volunteering, showing up for things in general.
I am working on going more dim even when he's around. I am trying to step away from the things that I just do out of habit for him (like making him a plate to take for his lunch with leftovers). I am trying to only respond to texts that absolutely need my response. I have always tried to be kind and welcoming and lead by example--treat him in the way that I want to be treated, but I am really trying to take a step back. I am still trying to avoid the 4 Horsemen in interactions--I have a strong tendency to be a smartass and sarcastic. I have a friend that is Ok with me texting her every time I am thinking about texting him.
The thing is, in terms of what I need--he can't provide for me. I would like to have consistent companionship and dependability. I am quite capable of handling most things myself, and he has continued to contribute financially (I think being a provider is very important to him). I have always worked, but he does make about twice what I do, and provides insurance for all which is huge. I have always said that I would not divorce. If he wants a divorce, he would have to get one, but now he seems to be ok with this.
I have seen more flares with anger and irritation in the last few weeks than I had seen in a while, but I have also seen more of an effort to walk them back or admit that he is wrong than he EVER had before. Despite what ever else is going on, I have seen some positive changes to things that have been negatives in his behavior for many years. I have make a concerted effort in last several months to not ask anything that might make him feel like he has to lie. So, I just don't ask anything most of the time. However, he will ask where I am if not home.
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It takes a very long time to get "easier". Many feel that the best way to detach is to limit contact or go no contact while other LBSers have always continued to have some contact with their spouses. In the end, we get to choose.
For myself, I think because I feel that his crisis is something that was unavoidable and not in his control, and the weirdness of it all, the abrupt and 180 degree changes in him, allowed me to want to be there for him should he need it...I also didn't want to dread if I had to encounter him or be upset by his existence, to heal and be able to be in his presence so that it does not shake me.
Over time (and it took a long time but I am glad I went this route) he remains an important part of our family and for that, I am grateful
MLC is not about us or our marriage. They may leave us and we take that personally and it creates a huge wound in us, the betrayal, the abandonment, the rejection but really their crisis is something beyond the bonds of marriage...not all of them monster, certainly not all of them "hate" us and for many, once they get through their crisis, they will acknowledge to others and possibly even to us, that they never stopped loving us.
You go about building a life of your own.....live as though he is never coming back. Set boundaries if that feels comfortable to you. I believe acceptance of what is is more helpful than "detach"...for I see the word "detach" as trying to force me into something that doesn't fit...he was in my life for 35 years and will always remain important to me but I accept that he doesn't want than anymore...but he still wants a connection and I am willing to allow that.
My own view.
Create a life that is pleasing for you.....look after your family and find peace in knowing that you listen to your own inner self to make choices that are best for you and your family.
I am working on my own choices, and I don't want our relationship to be acrimonious. He has acknowledged that he loves me. I think that is part of what is making his current behavior difficult. Although it was hard when he was monstering and I was the villian and he was busy rewriting history etc, his behavior made sense. The staying away and justification for things that he was doing made sense (I mean a kind of twisted sense since it wasn't based on fact etc, but if I was awful it made sense that he wouldn't want to be with me). Now, he has made it very clear that I am not awful--that I am beautiful, amazing, a fantastic mother, an angel, and a badass. That makes less sense to me. I know MLCers don't make any sense at all, so I guess that it is ridiculous that I should try, but it is just part of my basic makeup to analyze patterns and the psychology of things.
He has hinted at some childhood trauma that was not disclosed for many years, so I do have some sympathy. I want my children to have their father, and what I am doing now seems to be the best way to have him in their lives more. It may be based on his whims or whatnot, but I worry that if he can't come when he wants, they may seen him less. I say nothing negative about him to the kids. I try to show compassion and empathy. I know that I can't control their relationship with him and it is not my responsibility, but I also want to do everything I can to make it easier for them to maintain a good relationship with their father.
We keep on going with the day to day--I just need to work on not worrying about what he has planned and just do what I want. Obviously, if he wanted to make sure he saw me, he would communicate more.
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I want my children to have their father, and what I am doing now seems to be the best way to have him in their lives more. It may be based on his whims or whatnot, but I worry that if he can't come when he wants, they may seen him less. I say nothing negative about him to the kids. I try to show compassion and empathy. I know that I can't control their relationship with him and it is not my responsibility, but I also want to do everything I can to make it easier for them to maintain a good relationship with their father.
In what you have wrote, you can see the things do not add up...many here have tried to understand their behavior and actions...Mermaid researched a great deal about the pathology of their crisis. Others too and there were many threads devoted to the theories of what caused our loved ones to change so drastically.
It doesn't matter how old the children are. They are also traumatized by the loss of the father/mother they knew.
One of the many resources that address this is Leila Miller's Primal Loss. The Now Adult Children of Divorce Speak.
"Despite vastly different circumstances and details, the similarities in their testimonies are striking; as the reader will discover, the death of a child's family impacts the human heart in universal ways."
So we face our own pain and also see the pain in our children because their MLC parent doesn't make sense to them either.
It doesn't always happen, some MLCers walk away and there isn't any opportunity to save the remnants of the family, but...the LBSer can make a difference in creating a "safe" environment for the children to continue to have a relationship with their MLC parent.
I work with neglected and abused children. Best practices try to maintain family ties. Sometimes that means supervised visits with the parents when their are safety issues, neglectful and abusive parents are given many chances, many therapeutic interventions and support to enable the children to continue to see their parents, even those who are incarcerated. There are a great deal of resources provided, caseworkers, judges, guardian ad litem, therapists, CASA advocates and others doing everything we can to make this work.
So, I ask, families that are in crisis, like ours are....assisting our children to maintain a relationship with their MLC parent falls on us. And it's hard because we are very very hurt too.
You are doing well by not saying negative things about him, by showing him empathy and compassion for you are teaching your children the realities...that sometimes a parent stops being a parent...perhaps because they are physically or mentally sick and at this point in time, they cannot be the parent they should be.
But there is hope. It is never too late to mend the damage that was done by their crisis.
My daughter was old enough to see that something had changed drastically in her father but she was angry and would have turned her back on him. She and I worked through this, ultimately it was her decision but I helped support her, and opened my home to to him when we could be together as a family.
I think I wrote this else where recently, his divorce ended our marriage, it did not end our family.
Over the years, he has started contacting her more and spending more time with her.....I am grateful when I see them chatting and laughing together and I know this is best for her and also for him.
This would not have happened if I had shut him totally out of my life and my home. But that too was my choice and it was the right choice for my family.
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It doesn't matter how old the children are. They are also traumatized by the loss of the father/mother they knew.
One of the many resources that address this is Leila Miller's Primal Loss. The Now Adult Children of Divorce Speak.
"Despite vastly different circumstances and details, the similarities in their testimonies are striking; as the reader will discover, the death of a child's family impacts the human heart in universal ways."
Thank you for this post. It did help. I am also a big believer that God can put direction in front of us in interesting ways. I went to go look for the book you referenced above. I found a book by the same author called, Impossible Marriages, Redeemed. It has stories of marriages that were redeemed. The author is Catholic and it is big on the Catholic faith (which is actually how I was raised although I don't currently practice). However, in the forward it talks about for better or for worse, and how at its worst, the marriage can become your cross to bear. I know that not everybody feels the same on this topic, but for me, it was a message and a reminder to carry on. That's what I heard when I stumbled across this book at a time I was losing hope.
In the past week, I have continued being kind. He was distant last week a bit, and away for the weekend. He has been at the house the last 3 nights, and I have noticed that he is not drinking. This is a guy that was drinking large amounts at what I believe was the height of replay. I had seen more moderation in months past, but he had still been drinking several drinks every day. I have not said anything or asked about it. I'm not sure if I should. I guess it is a good thing?
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My faith became more important after BD, even though it's always been there. It is what keeps me grounded and also reflects how I live my life and how I treat my husband.
"Love one another as I have loved you" is central to Christ's commandments and further exploration is to love even those who hate you, who hurt you....a tall order for sure.....yet, this has allowed me to continue to be the same person on my interior as I was before BD.
Hard to trust God's plans when I wanted so much to be a married woman.
I once read about if you think of a tapestry, and you are looking at in from the underneath, it is pretty messy with strings and knots but if you turn it over, there is a beautiful picture on the top side.
I found Rejoice Ministries a great help in allowing me to see this crisis from a different world view than what the world tells us. There are daily devotionals that are scripture based and a very strong belief in the power of prayer.
Many MLCers will engage in addicted behavior, drinking, gambling, drugs, affairs.....it's an attempt to fill the emptiness and the void that they are experiencing. If he is drinking less, it is possible that he is recognizing that his drinking is a problem.
Al-Anon is a very good place for people who are dealing with aa loved one who has an addiction.
I too have always shown kindness and acceptance to my husband. Things are more peaceful between us and we have family times together...vacations and holidays like Christmas and somehow, as dysfunctional as this seems to the outside world...it works for us.
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It's been a while since I posted. The back-and-forth roller coaster continues. It has been a long time since I pushed at all regarding our situation. A few weeks ago, I did. He became upset, restated some of the vilification/blaming points, and said that maybe we should make our situation more formal. I did confront him about how he says he is here for the kids, but he will be here and then nobody knows when he will show up again. Despite saying he wanted out, he stayed that night and stayed every night for a week. He seems very fatigued and somewhat withdrawn. He is also doing stuff around the house that needs to be done. A toilet, a dripping faucet...things that have been annoying and have been issues for a while. He is all over the place--he asks me on a date, then he cancels. The last couple of days he has been in and out of the house a couple of times a day. I sense that he is restless. He leaves the house, but messages. He goes out of town for a weekend and seems very affectionate when he returns. I feel like he is fighting within himself.
He is so confusing, but it does seem he's conflicted. I am conflicted as well. However, God is still showing up for me. A week ago, I was praying that I was so tired, and I needed a sign to hold on and keep going. Within a couple of hours, a coworker emailed me a song with the lyrics: "Sometimes the only way through it as a Hallelujah, sometimes the only thing to do is to give it all to ya." I feel like this was the sign I asked for--keep hanging on. But it is frustrating.
I think I am doing better with balancing my emotions, but it has been so long now, I am just tired and struggling to keep going with everything. I am also starting to struggle with some hormonal changes, and those are weighing me down as well. I just feel frozen. I have done many things at home, but I feel like I am just stuck and can't move on with my life. I feel like time is frozen for the waiting. He still has taken no actions to actually move on. I think that he is mentally struggling with how he can possibly love me, and have treated me like he did. He also can't back out of what he said he wanted because that means that what he has done was wrong. I am committed to my marriage. As long as I am married, I will maintain my marriage and try to be the light to lead him back. He has made no move to end our marriage. I said for better or worse, and lots of people say that, and they mean it, until they don't. At some point, I believe that he will come out of this MLC, and make some kind of move. He doesn't seem to really want to end our marriage though. He has had ample time and opportunity. When he was gone, he messaged me to check in about kids, but he messaged me instead of messaging them directly.
He doesn't seem to be in the manic replay phase that he was since around the fall of 2021 before the bomb drop (first one October 22) until about 10 months ago. Since then, his energy level seems to have dropped dramatically, he quit working out. He is still drinking, but he seems to be working to moderate a lot more. He has made some other changes, like cutting back on cursing. However, I still sense some anger below the surface. I know that only he can come through it, and it will take time. I do struggle to keep the snarky responses, irritability, and restlessness at bay.
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Good to read an update HL
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Updating and reflecting now--sitting at around 2 years since I became aware something was wrong--how wrong, I didn't know, but wrong. A year ago, at Thanksgiving, was our last BIG blow up.
I have discontinued logging when he is at the house versus when he is gone, but he does seem to be spending more nights at home. Sometimes it seems like he leaves because he knows he said he didn't want to be at home. He's still living in our RV, nothing more permanent. He seems very low energy. At the onset of this whole thing, he was high energy --going and going moving more and more into the motorcycle club and lifestyle, which I think led to some other things as well. Now, his motorcycle has been in the garage for the last 6 weeks or so. I haven't asked him about any club events or activities in a while, and he hasn't mentioned anything. He has trouble sleeping at times, but also sleeps for long periods of time--like 9 hours and then taking a nap. When he's away, in my mind he's always out living it up, but has made several comments about how he has watched a horse racing or monster truck shows all day long. This last week he was only gone for two nights. About 6 weeks ago was the last time I questioned our situation, and during this conversation, he was not angry like he had been in the past. He seemed tired and depressed, but said he didn't want us, that he didn't have to tell me where he was going, that what he did in the past for our relationship was never enough----and then proceeded to stay for a solid week, which just didn't seem to line up. I feel like we might be dealing with depression/withdrawal. Many say that replay is the hardest, but during the time that I identified as replay, he would be very angry with me, but also draw towards me very strongly and with lots of emotion. Lately, he just doesn't seem to have much emotion at all....like he doesn't have the energy for it.
I am usually going and going getting all the stuff done around the house and for the kids. I think he feels guilty for not doing as much, and honestly it seems like he just doesn't have it in him. We were also discussing the kids and he said he had broken their trust by not showing up for certain events. Ironically, this is something that I had always harped on being important. In general he doesn't say or share much at all, but I do pay a lot of attention to details and behavior. As well as being low energy, his memory seems AWFUL. He constantly asked me for information about things that he has asked about before (schedules with kids, my schedule, holidays, sports, etc). He can't seem to make connections between things.
I feel like I am called to continue to stand by my vows. It is hard and at times I still feel sad and overwhelmed. I am continuing to learn to play piano and to keep up with my walking and workouts. At times I still feel angry that I am having to do most of the heavy lifting for parenting, but that is out of my control, and nothing that can be done about it, but to do it as best as possible. I hope one day he will break his silence and I will get a better glimpse of what is going on.
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Thank you so much for sharing this update, Happylight! Brilliant work keeping up with absolutely everything in the midst of this confusion. Sending love and positivity- you’re doing an amazing job! 💗
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So an just an update. I continue to struggle with frustration at the slow progress and trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Thanksgiving came and went smoothly. He stayed for several days in a row.
He stays, he seems content, we don't fight, he talks about things like replacing the fence at the house and other projects that have to be done. We watch TV shows together. If you walked through our house, you would never know that he has "moved out." He leaves clothes on his side of the bed. His closet is full. His dresser has stuff on it. His office has all his stuff, his bike is in the garage. He actually doesn't use another address. So basically, he has the RV that he goes and stays at a few nights a week. Insurance enrollment just happened and he asked me for input on any changes and didn't make any moves to separate me.
He had my daughter wrap gifts, and she said Mom--all the gifts are for you. He brought me some supplements to help with shoulder pain. When I'm not home, he asks where I am. However, he doesn't like to tell me anything that is going on with him. Often, I think its just because he wants to be in control and not because it is something that is nefarious. Usually when he away, he still stays in contact--sends me texts and responds to things that I send or ask. Many times I have decided I won't reach out to him first (trying to go a little dim) and he always will bridge the gap.
Changes that occur to women in their late 40's have been hitting me hard this last six months. I struggle with not sleeping well, and therefore fatigue. I am having trouble with working out because of injuries--this is after doing fairly similar workouts for the entire year previous to that without any issues other than normal soreness. It's hard to be in this situation when I want to feel and look my best and I'm struggling to workout and feel like my body is falling apart. I am taking many different vitamins and supplements, try to eat good whole food, drink water, limit alcohol, exercise, and get sleep...so I feel like I am doing my part.
While I am intent on my stand, I do still struggle with making decisions based on what I think he is going to do or say. For example, I was asked to attend a conference for work in April. This whole thing blew up when I came back from a work conference two years ago, so I think I have some association between the two. I am trying to move past that, but I haven't yet told him of my plans to attend. It has always been the case that he could leave without worrying about anything, but I have to make sure that everything is taken care of if I have to go somewhere. Part of me wonders if he will also associate the trip with what happened before--I suspect that when I was gone before was when he crossed the line with OW.
From all my reading and processing, I know that while I may have been able to make different choices in the past, I also know that his choices were his alone. They were choices--although he has tried to blame them on me. However, I still feel somewhat stuck in limbo. I wonder if he does feel like I am an obligation, but nothing more.
I do believe see evidence of stages--his behavior has changed through this. I've read that he will come through this or he won't. I've been in the dark for almost this entire thing (although I am extremely observant of behavior and habits). DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?
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DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?
Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.
What you do does affect you. So it does matter a great deal. Make your health and wellbeing the center of your attention.
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This ^^^^
It sounds as if some bit of you is waiting for something. Do you know what that is?
Meanwhile, the tough reality is that you have some kind of semi-detached husband in name only living in an RV. Fwiw, I would plan things like your conference excluding any need for him or expectations of him at all. If you feel you struggle bc some of your choices are contingent on what you think he might say or do, imho the easiest way to deal with that is some blend of removing him from your decision-making/planning and being as clear-eyed as you can be about the reality of what you see in front of you right here and right now without speculating about what might come next. Bc that is a known….the future, not so much….and you can change your approach when/if your h brings something different to the table.
What would you do if he didn’t exist, if you were actually a completely solo woman? Lots of us out here lol, and we find work-arounds for things that used to need a spouse or another responsible adult. We do things differently, stop doing some things, ask for help from other humans or buy the practical support we need. Imho, do that….find a new approach that does not depend on anything he does or says, or doesn’t.
Reinventing is quite right. You may still be believing that what you do or don’t do has more influence on his behaviour than it actually does right now, based on the evidence. Which is LBS normal lol.; imho the LBS reality is a bit more like the ‘horse to water’ principle, you can choose to keep a door open to something better, but you really can’t make someone else want it open or walk through it in a way which is acceptable and good for you.
But what you do with you and your life DOES matter and you DO have influence over that.
And if he doesn’t like that much - and he may not as he probably finds the current semi-detached comfortable enough to keep doing it - just remind yourself that you are simply and honestly dealing with some of the practical effects of a spouse who chose to change the nature of your marriage and family as it was and chooses to live separately someplace else.
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I do believe see evidence of stages--his behavior has changed through this. I've read that he will come through this or he won't. I've been in the dark for almost this entire thing (although I am extremely observant of behavior and habits). DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?
When we have the type of contact you do, we are able to see changes, it's not linear, sometimes they will revert back to an earlier stage. The hard part is not thinking that somehow they are making "progress" because there is no way to predict what will be when they exit the crisis. And progress doesn't mean they will come home.
I used to be fearful that I might do something that would push him further away, that would affirm to him that he was right in leaving me but I totally agree with Reinventing
Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.
My own assumption, not based on any factual data, is that there are some things that "might" impact what kind of relationship you will have in the future. Your own growth and detachment for a start. Acceptance of his crisis and being "kind" might allow a better relationship in the future. Understanding of his crisis, allows you to let him be, give him the space he needs.
Being "kind" isn't the right word perhaps but what that looked like for me is responding to his texts, offering support when he had surgeries, including him in our family times and accepting when he wanted to have dinner or drop in for tea. There are no demands made and no expectations, but there is unconditional love. Over the years, I realize that he trusts me and I am a safe place for him. He is not my "friend" but he remains an important part of my life.
But a very small part...I continue to find my own path, knowing that I am alone to face the realities of getting older.
I always have followed my inner voice, it can be very strong at times and it doesn't steer me wrong.
I also receive gifts, thoughtful and frequent from him..it was and continues to be his love language I think.
As for the changes you are experiencing in your late 40's...it's frustrating isn't it? To have always been physically fit and active. I am turning 70 in a few days and I just am not as strong as I once was physically and I hurt. I continue to build strength with weights and yoga and have lots of PT to deal with some particular issues. Yoga is particularly helpful to me and always has been.
I think that science is now rethinking the role of hormone replacement therapy for women, so you might want to investigate that.
It is confusing to have a husband who is like yours...my son in law, who never knew his father in law before his crisis, will watch us together in the kitchen and remark "mom, I just don 't understand. You are cooking and laughing and teasing one another, your favorite tunes are playing, you are enjoying a glass of wine...I just don't understand".
Welcome to the club.
Your worries about attending the conference are normal. It's a trigger for you. The trauma that we have experienced by their crisis makes us alert and on guard, overly cautious, hypervigilant....face those feelings, perhaps journal them and expressing them here or to a close freind can also help to get the fear out that something you might do will make things worse. It won't.
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DOES WHAT I DO MATTER?
Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.
What you do does affect you. So it does matter a great deal. Make your health and wellbeing the center of your attention.
Thank you for this reminder. I have tried to make sure I frame my actions like this, but I constantly have to remind myself...even two years later. I don't know if this is because of the constant back and forth--its hard to keep your sea legs when the boat constantly has people jumping on. and off.
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This ^^^^
It sounds as if some bit of you is waiting for something. Do you know what that is?
Meanwhile, the tough reality is that you have some kind of semi-detached husband in name only living in an RV. Fwiw, I would plan things like your conference excluding any need for him or expectations of him at all. If you feel you struggle bc some of your choices are contingent on what you think he might say or do, imho the easiest way to deal with that is some blend of removing him from your decision-making/planning and being as clear-eyed as you can be about the reality of what you see in front of you right here and right now without speculating about what might come next. Bc that is a known….the future, not so much….and you can change your approach when/if your h brings something different to the table.
What would you do if he didn’t exist, if you were actually a completely solo woman? Lots of us out here lol, and we find work-arounds for things that used to need a spouse or another responsible adult. We do things differently, stop doing some things, ask for help from other humans or buy the practical support we need. Imho, do that….find a new approach that does not depend on anything he does or says, or doesn’t.
Reinventing is quite right. You may still be believing that what you do or don’t do has more influence on his behaviour than it actually does right now, based on the evidence. Which is LBS normal lol.; imho the LBS reality is a bit more like the ‘horse to water’ principle, you can choose to keep a door open to something better, but you really can’t make someone else want it open or walk through it in a way which is acceptable and good for you.
But what you do with you and your life DOES matter and you DO have influence over that.
And if he doesn’t like that much - and he may not as he probably finds the current semi-detached comfortable enough to keep doing it - just remind yourself that you are simply and honestly dealing with some of the practical effects of a spouse who chose to change the nature of your marriage and family as it was and chooses to live separately someplace else.
Fortunately, I know that he will handle things when I go to the conference. I will make plans to have things handled, and of course their behavior is unpredictable, but I am really pretty sure that he will just stay at the house while I am gone. I guess my fear is that telling him will elicit some kind of reaction that I won't like or will dig up issues that haven't been dealt with and will feel like a setback--even if it really isn't. It's avoidance of the situation on my part, which I know isn't healthy.
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When we have the type of contact you do, we are able to see changes, it's not linear, sometimes they will revert back to an earlier stage. The hard part is not thinking that somehow they are making "progress" because there is no way to predict what will be when they exit the crisis. And progress doesn't mean they will come home.
I used to be fearful that I might do something that would push him further away, that would affirm to him that he was right in leaving me but I totally agree with Reinventing
Since his MLC wasn't because of you, about you, or your marriage, what you do doesn't affect it.
My own assumption, not based on any factual data, is that there are some things that "might" impact what kind of relationship you will have in the future. Your own growth and detachment for a start. Acceptance of his crisis and being "kind" might allow a better relationship in the future. Understanding of his crisis, allows you to let him be, give him the space he needs.
Being "kind" isn't the right word perhaps but what that looked like for me is responding to his texts, offering support when he had surgeries, including him in our family times and accepting when he wanted to have dinner or drop in for tea. There are no demands made and no expectations, but there is unconditional love. Over the years, I realize that he trusts me and I am a safe place for him. He is not my "friend" but he remains an important part of my life.
But a very small part...I continue to find my own path, knowing that I am alone to face the realities of getting older.
I always have followed my inner voice, it can be very strong at times and it doesn't steer me wrong.
I also receive gifts, thoughtful and frequent from him..it was and continues to be his love language I think.
As for the changes you are experiencing in your late 40's...it's frustrating isn't it? To have always been physically fit and active. I am turning 70 in a few days and I just am not as strong as I once was physically and I hurt. I continue to build strength with weights and yoga and have lots of PT to deal with some particular issues. Yoga is particularly helpful to me and always has been.
I think that science is now rethinking the role of hormone replacement therapy for women, so you might want to investigate that.
It is confusing to have a husband who is like yours...my son in law, who never knew his father in law before his crisis, will watch us together in the kitchen and remark "mom, I just don 't understand. You are cooking and laughing and teasing one another, your favorite tunes are playing, you are enjoying a glass of wine...I just don't understand".
Welcome to the club.
Thanks for the warm welcome to club...can I please revoke my membership? :P.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses.
I live in limbo. It is my choice, I know that, and I struggle every day with deciding if I stay here or not. I had always said if he wanted a divorce, he would have to get one, but it doesn't look like he will do that. It is hard to think of him not returning, when in many ways, he never really completely left. I know that I am the only one to know when I am done, but it isn't as easy for me as just saying Ok, I'm done. I guess I will just know when I am really ready to be done. I saw an Instagram post the other day that said, "And she kept giving grace. Even when it was hard. Even when it was heavy. because God made her for more. And this is how the healing came." I am hoping that is true and that in time healing will come in some form. Either by being at peace with being done, or by the healing of my marriage.
One thing I have learned is that I don't always need to comment or share my thoughts. Last night, we were watching TV, and the male character was in an accident and was in the hospital with his wife by his bed. He said, "I hope that if i am ever in the hospital, you will make sure my hair and beard don't look all crazy." I wanted to make some biting comment about our situation or his assumption that I would be there, but instead, just answered honestly and said, "Of course I would."
I actually found an online service that provides perimenopause and menopause care through chatting with a doctor. I am starting a hormone patch this week. Friends say it has helped immediately, so fingers crossed.
Friendship is a hard thing for me. Hardly anyone in my life even knows we are separated, so I have probably withdrawn and avoided really forming a lot of friendships. My daughter even said the other day that I didn't really have any friends. My closest friends are coworkers (some of which I have worked with for 15+ years). My friendships over the years tended to be connected to my children in some way, and now they are getting older and moving on to new things and those friendships don't seem to stand the test of time. I am going to have to work toward forming some new friendships, but I just don't know if I am ready right now.
I am in my last week before Christmas break and I am just putting one foot in front of the other. Here's to moving forward and hope.
"People speak of hope as if it is this delicate, ephemeral thing made of whispers and spider's webs. It's not. Hope has dirt on her face, blood on her knuckles, the grit of the cobblestones in her hair, and just spat out a tooth as she rises for another go."
----My middle name is literally Hope.
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Well, here we are in February --staring down at the 2 year mark of when the Atomic Bomb Drop happened. We are still married. It has become rare for him to be away from the house more than a night or two a week, and usually not for more than 24 hours at a time.
I am still mostly dealing with a wall of silence. There is a new component though. He has been sober (as far as I can tell) since New Year's. I am not sure if this is just a cleanse of sorts (sober January), but we are a couple days into February now, and I don't think he's had anything. Alcohol has been a daily thing for him pretty much since I believe crisis started-- near the beginning of Covid crisis. In the last several months, the alcohol intake has been much more controlled than it was--maybe he was preparing to stop...Anyway, it wasn't until he quit, that I became aware of how much it impacted how I interact with him. Now, I am having a harder time with reading him. I had become so used to dealing with him in that state, and didn't realize how much it impacted my interactions. I have read that being sober after drinking as much as he did, can cause a period of anhedonia (lack of ability to experience pleasure or joy) so basically depression. If anyone has experience with what a person goes through during the first month of sobriety, I would be interested in hearing experiences. He has spent a LOT of time playing video games.
In the last month he spent a LOT of time fixing up my car--installing a new stereo, backup camera, and hands free controls. It took him a long time, and I kept expecting him to get frustrated when he hit bumps along the way. These were not things I had asked for, but I did let him know they are greatly appreciated.
I have realized that A LOT of his moving out is window dressing. He hasn't ever moved his computer, most of his clothes, cleaned off his dresser, or even gotten mail at the RV park.
I have been doing the HRT for almost two months now, and blissfully, am sleeping through the night again. In terms of exercise, I did find out that my shoulder pain was caused by a torn rotator cuff and labrum. The pain and impact on my workouts has been frustrating, but I am trying to work on a new workout plan that incorporates my PT and avoids the things that aggravate it.
I finished crocheting my 3rd big blanket this year, and a couple of scarves as well. I am starting to try new patterns and stitches, but I like things that are repetitive. Continue to work on learning piano. Moving into pre-advanced lessons and my progress is getting much slower despite daily practice. I've only been playing about 19 months though, so not too bad.
All in all--still trucking along. Still standing. Still putting one foot in front of the other to figure it out. My kids are struggling with life--hard to tell if it is all related or just their ages etc. I fear that this experience could set them up for their own crisis in the future. All I can do is be my best me, support how I can, and PRAY.
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That's good that he's been sober. Hopefully it continues!
Love that last sentence, that about sums up what we need to focus on.
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If anyone has experience with what a person goes through during the first month of sobriety, I would be interested in hearing experiences. He has spent a LOT of time playing video games.
He has traded one addiction (alcohol) for another (dopamine) via Videogames. Dopamine is also released when we do things for other people that are appreciated. Dopamine is the only Neurotransmitter that humans have figured out how to "hack" unlike Endorphines (coming from physical exercise/exertion) or Oxytocin (released when we have physical bodily contact like hugging). Dopamine is released with swiping on your phone, the short 20-second video clip, playing video games (getting lost in a virtual world) or doing things that earn us praise.
Take that as a piece of information in your arsenal of knowledge.
UM
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Thank you for this insight...it does make sense.
If anyone has experience with what a person goes through during the first month of sobriety, I would be interested in hearing experiences. He has spent a LOT of time playing video games.
He has traded one addiction (alcohol) for another (dopamine) via Videogames. Dopamine is also released when we do things for other people that are appreciated. Dopamine is the only Neurotransmitter that humans have figured out how to "hack" unlike Endorphines (coming from physical exercise/exertion) or Oxytocin (released when we have physical bodily contact like hugging). Dopamine is released with swiping on your phone, the short 20-second video clip, playing video games (getting lost in a virtual world) or doing things that earn us praise.
Take that as a piece of information in your arsenal of knowledge.
UM
Just a quick update. He has spent most nights at home, but still withdrawn, playing video games, but also calm and kind when we interact most of the time. It just seems like it is hard for him.
He surprisingly asked me if I wanted to meet him for lunch tomorrow. My guess is that he doesn't remember that tomorrow is Valentine's Day (we never really made a big deal out of it in the past either). I am a teacher, so it doesn't usually work for my schedule to meet up, although we have done it on occasion pre crisis. I told him I had a meeting at the original time he proposed, but said I could meet later and he agreed. I am somewhat stressed about it. Would he want to meet for lunch in order to give me unhappy news, or is this an attempt at reconnection? I never would have thought him to be a guy that would meet me in a public place to give me bad news and then send me back to work, but there are lots of things that I had thought he would never do. I guess I will find out tomorrow. I took the afternoon off, just in case it goes South, but I didn't let him know that.
He seems to have now been sober about 6 weeks. He has still not mentioned it at all, so I am not sure if this is temporary stop to drink or he means to not drink again. He might not know right now. I have refrained from bringing any alcohol into the house, and I have only had a couple of drinks while getting my nails done during that same time period.
As I have said before since he has never really left, I have an up close view for the changes he's been through. I do feel like he has moved out of replay--we are now past 2 years since the bomb drop that blew everything up, but 2.5 years past the bomb drop that he walked back, and almost 4 years since I started seeing signs of the crisis. He is much more still and quiet. He's sometimes irritable, but monster hasn't shown his face in over a year now, and he had been around for a good year to 18 months before the bomb.
I am trying to stay balanced. Do self care. I am much more back on track and focused at work in general, but I am finding myself very tired lately. I am trying to focus on self care, progressing on my piano playing, and starting a new crochet project.
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The one thing I have learned is it is rarely as bad as we make it in our heads.
I suspect lunch will be ok.
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The one thing I have learned is it is rarely as bad as we make it in our heads.
I suspect lunch will be ok.
Yep.... Once bitten, twice shy as the saying goes. We can become our own "Prophet of Doom" because we have been betrayed so badly so we are on guard and being to "expect" that things will go to Hades in a handbasket when we are dealing with the Mid-Lifer...
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The one thing I have learned is it is rarely as bad as we make it in our heads.
I suspect lunch will be ok.
You guys were right. Lunch was fine. I feel a little stiff with him because I really don't have any idea where he is mentally or emotionally right now.
Observations from the cheap seats....
He continues to stay at the house about six nights a week. He goes to work and comes back home-nothing in between. On weekends he doesn't go anywhere. He continues to to be sober. He plays video games, and stays up late most nights. He seems withdrawn in terms of affection and his libido seems to have dropped off a cliff, but he is not cold or angry. He is usually calm and sometimes seems far off, but will help with things that I ask for help with, and doesn't reject hugs or pats of affection.
He continues to take a back seat with parenting although he connects with our youngest more frequently. He seems to be giving our oldest two a lot more grace during discussions than he used to. He will say things like they will get it figured out, or they may mess up, but we will just have to support them (which has usually been my stance), while he has usually been a lot more harsh. I find that very interesting from a psychological perspective. I was a kid who pretty much did "the right things." Was a pretty good student, was driven, participated in extra curriculars, stayed out of trouble, had a job, went to college, etc. I had a few stumbles along the way of course, but he struggled a lot more on his teenage pathway and choices. Our kids got his ADHD, and have struggled a lot more along the path of entering adulthood (we have a 21 year old and a current high school senior). I wonder if he was judging them as himself, and now he is trying to give himself more grace and room to make mistakes (which I guess I have done for him). He has also mentioned ways that he broke their trust in the past--like not showing up to performances or games (which was something that I had always emphasized as being important).
He seems to be more focused on work and spending more hours working. He is not a federal employee, but his work has been requiring more time spent in the office and not working remotely. They have been pushing this for several months now, but for a while, he still would work part of his day remotely and then go into the office for a minimal amount of time. During heavy replay, I was worried his job would be impacted because of his attitude and amount of time spent with other activities.
He does not seem to be associated with the motorcycle club any longer. He hasn't spoken of it in months, his motorcycle has mostly been in the garage for the last several months. This is also interesting because he had actually been voted President of his chapter last year, and he previously had activities multiple times a week.
As for me, I finished my 3rd big crocheted blanket for the year. I also did a few scarves since picking this up a year ago. I have struggled with some injuries due to working out --rotator cuff tear and tendinopathy in my hip and glute. This has resulted in regaining about half the weight I had lost--which has been frustrating. I had hoped cutting out alcohol would benefit me with weight loss, but it has not. I continue to walk regularly (91 miles in January and 40 so far in February), stretch regularly, do bodyweight exercises and do rehab exercises for shoulder. I have also continued to learn to play piano for the last two years. I have used an app and a keyboard to learn, and am now moving on to pre-advanced. Progress is a lot slower than it used to be, but I do enjoy it, and it is something I have wanted to learn most of my adult life. I seem to be more focused and on track at work, but also at balance with work. Previously I may have spent too many hours trying to do everything at work. I am getting back to reading a bit. For a while I was doing really well with cooking, but now I am struggling a bit to feel inspired to cook again. I think some of that is just because I am still carrying a lot of the day to day tasks for the whole family as well as working, trying not to strangle my teenage and pre-teen daughters, and trying to keep my own mental health together. I really struggle with allowing myself to have "lazy time," and I find that it is worse when he is at the house all the time.
I write some of these things in case others are seeing the same things, but also for me to go back and see where we were.
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Ah... Living with teenagers......
You can't live with 'em and you can't hang 'em by their toes from the ceiling fan either....
I have 2 at the moment when they come to me for their "dad weekends."
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Another month or so has gone by. I am just so tired. My sleep has been better since starting HRT, but I seem to need more of it. I have been reading lots about cortisol and stress and I wonder if my body is just exhausted from being under stress for so long at this point.
More updates from the observational cheap seats....
We are now about 10 weeks sober. He still hasn't said anything about it. I have not quit drinking completely, but am only drinking occasionally in very limited amounts when he is not around. As for being around--he has been at the RV about 1 night a week, but sometimes it is 10 days between the times he goes. He as at home pretty much the rest of the time. He is calm, and a few times irritable, but nothing at all like the two years leading up to the bomb drop. Sometimes, I am wondering if this was what he was like before this whole thing started and I just don't remember anymore, of if is he is just different now. I keep wondering when/if he will decide that he doesn't need to keep the RV at the RV park (as opposed to storage) anymore. I used to LOVE camping in the RV, but I don't feel like I could enjoy it for family vacations anymore, so I don't know what will happen with that in the future. He still hasn't broken the silence, and has said even less over the last 10 weeks than he did over the past two years. I feel like it is possible we could be dealing with something referred to as PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome), which is a period of withdrawal after the acute symptoms have dissipated, but body hasn't returned to a normal baseline yet. Symptoms include: Foggy thinking/trouble remembering, Urges and cravings, Irritability or hostility, Sleep disturbances—insomnia or vivid dreams, Fatigue, Issues with fine motor coordination, Stress sensitivity, Anxiety or panic, Depression, Lack of initiative, Impaired ability to focus, decreased libido, and Mood swings --MANY of these things overlap with MLC to begin with. He has been playing his video game nonstop. I did think he quit his motorcycle business because he hadn't done anything in months and he had been doing things with club continuously, but apparently he is still involved, just seems a lot less.
Even though he is basically living back at home, in many ways he is still separate--like living parallel, and it doesn't feel like he is fully re-engaged, so I just keep giving him space, and trying to continue on with my life.
I keep going with work (STEM teacher), mom stuff, and trying to better myself (workouts, piano, crochet). It's hard to do all that stuff and not be exhausted all the time. During spring break I did a mini redo for my daughters' bathroom--painted cabinets, walls, doors, trim, added new cabinet hardware, deep cleaned, and organized drawers. We also took a trip to Ikea and got some new yarn for some future projects. The weather has been gorgeous here and I have really enjoyed having the jeep top off--its a thing that really makes me happy!
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Who is this "we"?
I don't mean to come across as heartless, but I see a lot of predictions. For example, the location of the RV, and anticipated family vacations. This is on top of your adoption of the role of observational therapist. I imagine having a firm sense of knowledge feels empowering, but knowledge without action is a forgotten book, and the action necessary is entirely NOT yours to take.
I don't mean to chide you or even give you advice, but did want to note those aspects as they really stood out to me.
Another month or so has gone by. I am just so tired. My sleep has been better since starting HRT, but I seem to need more of it. I have been reading lots about cortisol and stress and I wonder if my body is just exhausted from being under stress for so long at this point.
I can relate to that almost bottomless tired. I would only be able to sleep for a few restless hours a night, in between rounds of night sweats. It was insane I ever managed to do anything during the day.
During spring break I did a mini redo for my daughters' bathroom--painted cabinets, walls, doors, trim, added new cabinet hardware, deep cleaned, and organized drawers. We also took a trip to Ikea and got some new yarn for some future projects.
And nice work improving the house! The satisfaction of boxchecking is always great, plus I imagine future you will be quite grateful for the upgrades.
The weather has been gorgeous here and I have really enjoyed having the jeep top off--its a thing that really makes me happy!
This is great. I also find myself rolling down the windows and bumping some tunes during the transition from winter to spring.
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I find myself agreeing with Zartheit that you might be standing a bit closer than you intend to do in your observation, although we all get how difficult it is to do in a situation like this. Essentially, from over here in the very cheap seats, it sounds as if your h is basically ‘camping out’ at your house, physically present but not much more. Probably not even as engaged as a friendly visitor let alone a partner in your family and domestic life? And as we LBS know all too well, there’s a tendency in that kind of situation to look for signs and confirmations, to assume we know things we can’t, to fill in the gaps. Partly bc living like this is hard, partly bc our nervous system sees it a bit like living around an unexploded bomb or dangerous dog imho. Even if our brains don’t want to think that way, the lizard bits of our brains FEEL that way. With all the effects that come with it.
That was a pretty long list of symptoms and speculation about where your h might be at. I’d suggest gently that you might find it more useful to replace him as a symptom focus and turn your eye to you. What are YOUR symptoms right now? Where do you feel you are at? You mused on whether cortisol and prolonged stress might account for some of your exhaustion…again jmo, but yes that’s possible. You might find it really helpful to read up about that - Bessel van der Kolk is good on this stuff, but there are others who explain more about how our autonomic nervous system works under significant prolonged stress. You might find it helpful to reflect on what kind of exhausted you are, what makes you feel 5% better or 5% worse. To look at your current basics around sleep, food and exercise. To experiment with things like yoga or mediation or walking if you don’t already do these things. To keep a simple journal to help you observe your progress and challenges. To set a goal, maybe just a single simple word that represents how you’d LIKE to feel, what ‘not exhausted’ means to you and how you know where you are from day to day. In short, to throw away the paragraph about your marital ‘camper’ and replace it with one about you 😜
A bit of you may be feeling that if you don’t observe him, how will you know what is going on and if he is reconnecting or not. Again, humbly, I’d suggest two things….that if he is reconnecting, you can trust yourself to feel that bc it will be consistent and obvious and different. It really is ok to trust yourself, to trust your gut instinct about when a quacking thing is a duck or not. You’re smart and you’ve been at this for a while now….you can trust you. Even though it’s true that most LBS lose that confidence for a little while…but it’s ok to reclaim it.
And that, unless you have him locked in a shed for 24 hours a day, your observations of him drinking or his mindset or activities or ow are all based on limited data and outwith your control pretty much anyway, so it’s a bit of a cheese less tunnel. So, not very useful to you imho. He will do or not do, choose or not choose x or y based on how he currently sees himself and the world, based on what currently works best for him or not. He will change - or not - based on much the same, so leave him to figure it out. You get to decide what is acceptable in your home and in your life, that’s what boundaries are for, but you don’t get to control everything else or what others think or feel or do. Even if that’s a bit frustrating. 😝