Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Jackolar12 on January 02, 2014, 11:27:40 PM
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Hi all can we try to define how far in is bomb drop,some say it's the start,others half way mark, can we have an informed debate about this please, and can someone make this a sticky topic for me,or tell me how to do it .
Regards
Jackolar 12
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Start here:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.0
I would say from all I've read & hindsight that BD occurs years after the beginnings of a midlife crisis. My h started to show irritability & depression about 3 to 5 years before BD. It seems that timeline is fairly typical; it takes years to build up to a point where the mlcer goes looking for 'remedies'.
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Hi Calamity, thanks for the contribution my ex started to act out of character in 2008 and dropped the bomb 7/11/2011 I remember it well it's etched in my soul,I hope other members will give their views on time lines.
Regards
Jackolar12
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Hi old pilot how do I get to stick this thread to the first page of the forum for feed back?
Jackolar12
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Jack:
From my experience Bomb Drop did not occur until I started questioning my X's activities. I think it is more a response to the LBS's actions than an indicator of location on the MLC path.
Mac
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Thanks Mac the ex blindsided me I did not see anything strange,but with hindsight she didn't come home from her work party till the early hour about two years before,perhaps it was the start of her infidelity.
After bomb drop she went for it big time.
Regards
Jack
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I am intrigued by this topic.
In hindsight, I would have to say that my husband was in a slow descent into the crisis for a few years before bomb drop. We had a mini bomb drop just shy of a year prior to the actual bomb drop.
I too was blindsided by the bomb drop but I saw the signs of discontent with his life and his anger for a long time prior but the anger and discontent was not ever solely directed at me except for that mini bomb drop that made no sense to me at all. If only I had known...
Thank you for starting this thread and I am very interested to see everyone's replies.
Hugs.
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Hi Living With Hope everyone's contribution will be great and I'm sure we will gather some useful info from this, your contribution has reminded me about a car accident my ex and son were in towards the end of 2008. When I arrived at the scene my wife and son were in the ambulance and I only asked what happened and the ex jumped down my throat which was totally out of character for her as she was the Mary pop pins type,and after your contribution this may have been a mini bomb drop,she actually mentioned this in monster spew after the main bomb went off, so I see this as linked,keep the intel coming everyone and let's bounce ideas about and find commonalities.
Regards
Jackolar 12
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I think the MLC started at least 1 1/2 - 2 years before BD; BD was December 2012 so looking back it probably started early 2011 or late 2010. I think BD occurred because H had finally found a willing OW; he had the now or never attitude, he met OW early November 2012. He had been looking at dating sites for good 2-3 years though. It is hard to look back and pin point the beginning, it has been so long since I have seen the H that I fell for :( it happens so slowly in the beginning that we don't really recognize anything going on.
As far as when BD occurs in the scheme of things, I tend to think it is somewhere around 1/2-3/4point. It takes a few years of everything coming to a head, then boom we get BD. BD begins replay that averages about 2 years or so, then you have the time that they are coming out of the tunnel, not sure what the average time is for that. I'm think probably 1-2 years. So 2-3 years before BD, 2-3 years replay, 1-2 years post replay; 6-7 years total. Just my thoughts on it ;)
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I think mine started to slowly descend a few years before bd. really slowly. My laid back h would get overwhelmed easily. Found a new group of friends, the drinking started, he wanted to eat better, run and talked about dying his hair black for a long time. Thank goodness he never did. He also wasn't really a family man.
Problem is, because he started disconnecting and started his MLC years ago, he says he's been living a lie and has been miserable for a long time. Prob is he's right. Does it ever dawn on them that their depression/MLC was what was making them miserable? I think that really counts against my case! He HAS truly been unhappy for a long time. Because he's been in MLC.
So are we saying that the three years prior to bd counts towards the estimated timeframe of 2-7 years??
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So are we saying that the three years prior to bd counts towards the estimated timeframe of 2-7 years??
No, I believe BD really starts the time frame. I am pretty sure there is an article about this (or a blog). We can't really qualify when their MLC started if you are talking about the dissatisfaction with life that is pre-BD.
It definitely takes time for their MLC to simmer to a head when they drop the bomb or start replay activities. In hindsight, I can see that my H was noticeably detaching from our family more than a year prior to BD. His dissatisfaction with his job which has been a huge part of his MLC started even a couple of years prior to BD.
I think that replay lasts a lot longer than 2 years in pretty much all MLCers.
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I think my H's started after my dad passed away in 2010..he withdrew, got to where he wouldn't do things that he used to do..like gardening, fishing, hunting, playing with the kids..H just really changed. I left n took the boys shortly after that, then I had told Hbi had an affair a cpl yrs before that n H really went to crap after that. So in my case, I think it started about 3 yrs before H actually physically left home.
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Hi Jockolar,
We are now just into 2014 and I am involved in a protracted D with W but let me throw some so time lines out at you (this is a concise version of my time lines)
1993: W and I met (we had really fun times together)
1995: W and I got engaged we had good times but we always seemed to have little fallouts where either of us sulked for weeks.
1997:Married we argued on our honeymoon
1998 W walked out on me and went to her mothers, however we got back together when I agree to sell my house and buy one with W.
2001: We have D12, very bad pregnancy we nearly lost both of them. When W better and D12 at home, out of the blue I get a venomus spew from W which shock me to the core, it was so abusive towards me and my family that I had to write down every word she said because I knew its significance would be explained in future years. This was the first appearance of monster but it disappeared and was not seen again for a few years.
2004: W screamed at me this marriage is over and we had a long period of no talking.
2005: I discovered PA just as it started, it carried on through 2006 as EA even though we tried to reconsile.
2007: ILYBNILWY The EA went back to PA continued but ends. W attempts to reconcile. Also dis cover a PA ongoing since 1999 “someone she talked to about our marriage problems”.
2009: I tell W F off I’ve had enough but she begs me to stay in the M.
2010: We are still together but FIL sick with Cancer, my mother suffering with diabetes and heart failure, no time for us to look at our problems.
2011: Both parents die, I discover W still in contact OM from 2005 so I tell her its over. W first begs me to stay then wants to D but does nothing about it.
2013: W involved with OM#2 and files for a D. OM bins W after 9 months.
2014: D ongoing and W trying to screw me for every penny I have.
see if you can pick a BD out of all that.
Lanzo
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My H was really thrown into depression with my father's death, too. Also his son left for college, he ruptured a disc in his back and needed surgery, I was traveling when this happened and he thought I was having an affair. All of this happened within a 6 month timeframe about three years ago. He started blaming me for everything Summer of 2012, affair started in Jan. 2013, I found out in February. We've reconciled off and on since then and he hasn't moved out because of money. I'm not so sure it is MLC or if he has just been unhappy with our marriage for a long time and never expressed it.
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Lanzo.... Must say that it's a roller coaster of a relationship for 10 plus years. Is it MLC?
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Lanzo.... Must say that it's a roller coaster of a relationship for 10 plus years. Is it MLC?
Yes, I now know it as MLC, prior to that I thought she was just a WAW, 2007 to 2010 I was on the DB site and employed all of their techniques, that along with our parent illness and quite a few stand offs where neither of us did anything probably delayed her journey by a few years.
Lanzo
WAW =Walk away wife
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I would say my BD was about 6-8 months into crisis, looking back now there were signs that I didnt recognize as MLC till BD
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That's a really good point broken heart any one got some input we can use ?
Love and hopes Jackolar
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Hi broken hart I have not got an accurate view to give you at the momment let's see what this thread brings it seems to be a sticky topic lets hope my mentor ,Ready To Transform can help me on this as it seems so important to everyone.
Regards
Jackolar 12
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Hi everyone it seems this thread is really important to everyone can Roller Coaster make it a sticky thread at the front of the forum for nubees to access to give them guidance in this nightmare.
Love and hope jackolar
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Lanzo.... Must say that it's a roller coaster of a relationship for 10 plus years. Is it MLC?
Yes, I now know it as MLC, prior to that I thought she was just a WAW, 2007 to 2010 I was on the DB site and employed all of their techniques, that along with our parent illness and quite a few stand offs where neither of us did anything probably delayed her journey by a few years.
Lanzo
WAW =Walk away wife
i feel for you Lanzo you have had such a bad time jackolar
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Great question Jackolar!
I reckon H's withdrawal, unhappiness and discontent started about 2009ish, maybe earlier. BD was Sept 2012.
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I think it was HeartsBlessing that references BD as 1/2 - 3/4 through the process. It is my understanding that HB doesn't post here any longer but I believe Thundarr recently posted a link to HB's website if you want to read more from her. Her observations come directly from her experience with her H.
Here is the timeline of the stages that HB saw with her H:
Pre-Midlife: Accommodation
Separation
Rejection & Refusal - Denial (1 - 6 months)
Resentment - Anger (3 - 9 months)
Escape & Avoid (Covert Depression) (2+ years)
High-Energy: Replay
OR
Low-Energy: Wallow
Liminality or Liminal/Overt Depression (2.5 - 6 months)
Rebirth - Withdrawal (3 - 12 months)
Reintegration - Acceptance (6 - 9 months)
I think that the MLC starts before BD and counts towards the overall process; problem is that we can't really pinpoint the start so it doesn't help anything. I believe it was RCR that stated that the only stage that we can really pinpoint is replay so we commonly use BD as a starting point.
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Great question Jackolar!
I reckon H's withdrawal, unhappiness and discontent started about 2009ish, maybe earlier. BD was Sept 2012.
hi Sunny we are all having a hindsight with this thread it's good for our soul love jackolar
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Great question Jackolar!
I reckon H's withdrawal, unhappiness and discontent started about 2009ish, maybe earlier. BD was Sept 2012.
Thank you Sunny it's important we all know from our experiences to help others that's what we are all about love Jackolar
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I think the MLC started at least 1 1/2 - 2 years before BD; BD was December 2012 so looking back it probably started early 2011 or late 2010. I think BD occurred because H had finally found a willing OW; he had the now or never attitude, he met OW early November 2012. He had been looking at dating sites for good 2-3 years though. It is hard to look back and pin point the beginning, it has been so long since I have seen the H that I fell for :( it happens so slowly in the beginning that we don't really recognize anything going on.
As far as when BD occurs in the scheme of things, I tend to think it is somewhere around 1/2-3/4point. It takes a few years of everything coming to a head, then boom we get BD. BD begins replay that averages about 2 years or so, then you have the time that they are coming out of the tunnel, not sure what the average time is for that. I'm think probably 1-2 years. So 2-3 years before BD, 2-3 years replay, 1-2 years post replay; 6-7 years total. Just my thoughts on it ;)
Hi searching 4answers the time line is similar to mine love and hope jackolar
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I think the MLC started at least 1 1/2 - 2 years before BD; BD was December 2012 so looking back it probably started early 2011 or late 2010. I think BD occurred because H had finally found a willing OW; he had the now or never attitude, he met OW early November 2012. He had been looking at dating sites for good 2-3 years though. It is hard to look back and pin point the beginning, it has been so long since I have seen the H that I fell for :( it happens so slowly in the beginning that we don't really recognize anything going on.
As far as when BD occurs in the scheme of things, I tend to think it is somewhere around 1/2-3/4point. It takes a few years of everything coming to a head, then boom we get BD. BD begins replay that averages about 2 years or so, then you have the time that they are coming out of the tunnel, not sure what the average time is for that. I'm think probably 1-2 years. So 2-3 years before BD, 2-3 years replay, 1-2 years post replay; 6-7 years total. Just my thoughts on it ;)sounds about right to me love and hope jackolar
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So are we saying that the three years prior to bd counts towards the estimated timeframe of 2-7 years??
No, I believe BD really starts the time frame. I am pretty sure there is an article about this (or a blog). We can't really qualify when their MLC started if you are talking about the dissatisfaction with life that is pre-BD.
It definitely takes time for their MLC to simmer to a head when they drop the bomb or start replay activities. In hindsight, I can see that my H was noticeably detaching from our family more than a year prior to BD. His dissatisfaction with his job which has been a huge part of his MLC started even a couple of years prior to BD.
I think that replay lasts a lot longer than 2 years in pretty much all MLCers.
Hi Trusting mine is just starting her third year anyone else like to add to this regards jackolar
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I think it was HeartsBlessing that references BD as 1/2 - 3/4 through the process. It is my understanding that HB doesn't post here any longer but I believe Thundarr recently posted a link to HB's website if you want to read more from her. Her observations come directly from her experience with her H.
Here is the timeline of the stages that HB saw with her H:
Pre-Midlife: Accommodation
Separation
Rejection & Refusal - Denial (1 - 6 months)
Resentment - Anger (3 - 9 months)
Escape & Avoid (Covert Depression) (2+ years)
High-Energy: Replay
OR
Low-Energy: Wallow
Liminality or Liminal/Overt Depression (2.5 - 6 months)
Rebirth - Withdrawal (3 - 12 months)
Reintegration - Acceptance (6 - 9 months)
I think that the MLC starts before BD and counts towards the overall process; problem is that we can't really pinpoint the start so it doesn't help anything. I believe it was RCR that stated that the only stage that we can really pinpoint is replay so we commonly use BD as a starting point.
yes I would agree but we may need to re evaluate to include the lead up time what do you think Roller coaster?
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I am not sure those time frames are really accurate for stages of MLC.
Also, I think that there is absolutely no way of knowing when they actually started to slip into crisis so I don't think there really is any way to determine how far in BD is. Yes, we can see when they started seeming different but it is so subtle and creeps in so slowly that I am not even sure an MLCer in hindsight could pinpoint it exactly. All I know is that my husband has been in crisis for what feels like forever.
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I am not sure those time frames are really accurate for stages of MLC.
Also, I think that there is absolutely no way of knowing when they actually started to slip into crisis so I don't think there really is any way to determine how far in BD is. Yes, we can see when they started seeming different but it is so subtle and creeps in so slowly that I am not even sure an MLCer in hindsight could pinpoint it exactly. All I know is that my husband has been in crisis for what feels like forever.
There is nothing 'accurate' in reguards to timelines; that was a timeline that was experienced by Heartsblessing and her situation. There is no 'one size fit all'.
I agree there is no way of knowing when the MLC started but in hind sight we can see things that we didn't pick up on at the time.
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does it really matter?
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does it really matter?
That's exactly what I was thinking because the crisis will last as long as it lasts. I have learned not to think about timeframes because they are much much longer in my case than I thought possible. In other cases they are shorter.
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does it really matter?
Does it really matter in the grand scheme of it all - no probably not as it has been said before it will go on as long as it needs to.
But for me in the darkness of it all, sometimes I need to look at time frames to help me process what is happening to my world. At the beginning those time frames that RCR put down seemed obscene and too long but it gave me an idea on how serious this crisis was/could be. As time marched on, it made me really aware of how time could be my friend. Now as I am getting very tired and exhausted, it brings me hope that it could end.
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I am not sure those time frames are really accurate for stages of MLC.
Also, I think that there is absolutely no way of knowing when they actually started to slip into crisis so I don't think there really is any way to determine how far in BD is. Yes, we can see when they started seeming different but it is so subtle and creeps in so slowly that I am not even sure an MLCer in hindsight could pinpoint it exactly. All I know is that my husband has been in crisis for what feels like forever.
how long is forever Trusting and do you have any hindsight to share?
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does it really matter?
that's why we are debating the thread twilight regards jack
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Jackolar, "forever" is really about five years. I am five years and two months past what I consider my first BD and two months will be five years since my marriage BD. And like I said, I could tell in hindsight my H was detaching from our family at least a year prior to that (I could tell something was "off" but had no idea what. He was there but he wasn't, if that makes sense). He started blaming his job (one of the four enemies of the MLCer) at least a year or so before that probably. I can't remember. My MLCer started out high energy around the time of BD but has mellowed into a low energy wallower.
What I have learned through this journey is that there is no point in stage watching. The stages are not linear. Depression and withdrawal occur throughout. I don't think we will really know where they are (such as past liminality) until after the fact. My H was angry at first but that also seemed to have burned out a couple of years ago. I do also believe they un-MLC the same subtle, slow way they slid into their MLC. I believe my H MAY be slowly creeping his way out. I won't bet money on it though. After four years of pretty much ignoring the kids, for the past few months (maybe almost a year now) he has been increasingly involved in their lives, spending more time with them, FINALLY helping me a little bit with driving them to activities, and being aware of them. I will finally cautiously say I think he is reconnecting with them. But not me. Yet.
My situation is a bit different in that my H has never moved out. He wallows in the basement.
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I had bd#1 November 2010, bd#2 march 2012 and then final bd#3 may 2012. He moved out then but still stayed here when he wanted, he was awful monster the minute he Bd#3, that was when he had ow to move on to.
I believe h mlc started 2009. He had work issues, couldn't get any and so started business. I became pregnant mid 2009. He was horrible about money, he wasn't earning and using our house savings to live off. I became very reactive, pregnancy was really bad and scary. 2010, he started pulling away from the family, more and more meetings away from home, back late three times a week ... Increased in 2011. That was the really bad year and when he started looking around for someone else. I had baby and kind of felt abandoned. 2012 he's gone. So, about two years pre bd for me. I'm. Nearly 2 years post bd, so looking at four, four and a half years mlc horror. My daughter is four in April, it's been a tough time.
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TZ, yes I know it doesn't matter when we think rationally; all these cases are individual & the timelines are estimates. But sometimes I just need to calculate...it's a boost or something when I am emotional & needy--for example during holidays. It goes like: IF I am lucky...& IF he... Okay I'm pathetic [worse, I have been known to google the satellite image of ow's house :D ::) ].
We know nothing of the our mler's stage except in the rearview mirror.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_replay_stage-obsession.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_replay_stage-obsession.html)
PS. My h is in replay & has been there a mighty long time [well into year 3].
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Jackolar, "forever" is really about five years. I am five years and two months past what I consider my first BD and two months will be five years since my marriage BD. And like I said, I could tell in hindsight my H was detaching from our family at least a year prior to that (I could tell something was "off" but had no idea what. He was there but he wasn't, if that makes sense). He started blaming his job (one of the four enemies of the MLCer) at least a year or so before that probably. I can't remember. My MLCer started out high energy around the time of BD but has mellowed into a low energy wallower.
What I have learned through this journey is that there is no point in stage watching. The stages are not linear. Depression and withdrawal occur throughout. I don't think we will really know where they are (such as past liminality) until after the fact. My H was angry at first but that also seemed to have burned out a couple of years ago. I do also believe they un-MLC the same subtle, slow way they slid into their MLC. I believe my H MAY be slowly creeping his way out. I won't bet money on it though. After four years of pretty much ignoring the kids, for the past few months (maybe almost a year now) he has been increasingly involved in their lives, spending more time with them, FINALLY helping me a little bit with driving them to activities, and being aware of them. I will finally cautiously say I think he is reconnecting with them. But not me. Yet.
My situation is a bit different in that my H has never moved out. He wallows in the basement.
hi Trusting thank you for the advice I'm two years in so I have a way to go and my ex is a complete vanisher still in replay, I hope things go well for you all
Regards jackolar
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TZ, yes I know it doesn't matter when we think rationally; all these cases are individual & the timelines are estimates. But sometimes I just need to calculate...it's a boost or something when I am emotional & needy--for example during holidays. It goes like: IF I am lucky...& IF he... Okay I'm pathetic [worse, I have been known to google the satellite image of ow's house :D ::) ].
We know nothing of the our mler's stage except in the rearview mirror.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_replay_stage-obsession.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_separation_replay_stage-obsession.html)
PS. My h is in replay & has been there a mighty long time [well into year 3].
Jack:
From my experience Bomb Drop did not occur until I started questioning my X's activities. I think it is more a response to the LBS's actions than an indicator of location on the MLC path.
Mac
hi Calamity thanks for your input and I too go over things in my mind a lot when I'm down trying to understand a crazy situation, mines starting her third year of replay and this will take a long time before she wakes up,look after yourself.
Regards
Jackolar
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I had bd#1 November 2010, bd#2 march 2012 and then final bd#3 may 2012. He moved out then but still stayed here when he wanted, he was awful monster the minute he Bd#3, that was when he had ow to move on to.
I believe h mlc started 2009. He had work issues, couldn't get any and so started business. I became pregnant mid 2009. He was horrible about money, he wasn't earning and using our house savings to live off. I became very reactive, pregnancy was really bad and scary. 2010, he started pulling away from the family, more and more meetings away from home, back late three times a week ... Increased in 2011. That was the really bad year and when he started looking around for someone else. I had baby and kind of felt abandoned. 2012 he's gone. So, about two years pre bd for me. I'm. Nearly 2 years post bd, so looking at four, four and a half years mlc horror. My daughter is four in April, it's been a tough time.
Hi Toughtimes thank you for your input,my ex kept her secrets well and though I look back and see subtle differences in her character and behaviour approximately two years prior to BD when she hit me with it she went into full monster spew and that was scary stuff indeed,so mine is two year build up and two year standing after major bomb drop.
Regards
Jackolar
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I think this is the curse of the LBS, we want to understand some 'absolutes' about when things started and how long 'things' (crazy behaviour, affairs, subsequent marriages) can be expected to last so that we can then 'start' putting a 'timeline' around how long we will 'stand' or 'tolerate' xyz behaviour. We LBS then believe we can 'manage' for a period of time until our spouse wants to come home.
I still have a huge timeline that I did on a roll of lining paper to help me make sense of my exH's erratic and horrid behaviour - it actually went back to early 2000 (which is when the first distant rumblings of his MLC started) but escalated from early 2006 and hit another high in late 2008 when we lost his Grandma and his final connection to his Mum (who died when he was 15 and his first BD and childhood wounding which is at the core of his MLC in my view)
My first real indication that something was really wrong was when my exH left after I confirmed his affair on 30.9.09 (14th wedding anniversary and I had a huge bouquet of my favourite flowers with a note telling me I was his world and he loved me forever!!). So that is the date I use as Bomb Drop because that was the date that my whole world changed for ever and I then had to learn how to survive. All of the other horrid weird stuff in the time leading up to his departure were little warning shots and I was responding to them the same way I had always done, thinking I was married forever and this was just a rough patch we were going through.
The simple reality is that there isn't a whole loads of MLC specific research out there and we witness some amazing discussions here on the Forum, intelligent discussions around nature vs nurture, brain chemistry impact on MLC, addiction impact on MLCers. This is a phenomenal forum for mulling over and discussing thoughts and issues important to us as we navigate our spouses MLC.
The bottom line for me to learn was that I cannot control anyone else's actions. I can only control me and once I 'got that' and the long long timescales of being involved with someone who is in crisis I started to live my life again for me and my 2 children.
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I think this is the curse of the LBS, we want to understand some 'absolutes' about when things started and how long 'things' (crazy behaviour, affairs, subsequent marriages) can be expected to last so that we can then 'start' putting a 'timeline' around how long we will 'stand' or 'tolerate' xyz behaviour. We LBS then believe we can 'manage' for a period of time until our spouse wants to come home.
I still have a huge timeline that I did on a roll of lining paper to help me make sense of my exH's erratic and horrid behaviour - it actually went back to early 2000 (which is when the first distant rumblings of his MLC started) but escalated from early 2006 and hit another high in late 2008 when we lost his Grandma and his final connection to his Mum (who died when he was 15 and his first BD and childhood wounding which is at the core of his MLC in my view)
My first real indication that something was really wrong was when my exH left after I confirmed his affair on 30.9.09 (14th wedding anniversary and I had a huge bouquet of my favourite flowers with a note telling me I was his world and he loved me forever!!). So that is the date I use as Bomb Drop because that was the date that my whole world changed for ever and I then had to learn how to survive. All of the other horrid weird stuff in the time leading up to his departure were little warning shots and I was responding to them the same way I had always done, thinking I was married forever and this was just a rough patch we were going through.
The simple reality is that there isn't a whole loads of MLC specific research out there and we witness some amazing discussions here on the Forum, intelligent discussions around nature vs nurture, brain chemistry impact on MLC, addiction impact on MLCers. This is a phenomenal forum for mulling over and discussing thoughts and issues important to us as we navigate our spouses MLC.
The bottom line for me to learn was that I cannot control anyone else's actions. I can only control me and once I 'got that' and the long long timescales of being involved with someone who is in crisis I started to live my life again for me and my 2 children.
Thank you MovingForward for your contribution,I know the little things that happen pre bomb drop we don't register at the time and if spotted we would react and try to help them but the crisis will occur regardless of our efforts,wishing you well.
Regards
Jackolar
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My experience of the time frame alters sometimes when I'm remembering an event in the past and begin to see that there was clearly something "wrong" at that time but didn't have enough of a string of things to fit them together to make the MLC diagnosis.
I think, from my reflections, it was at least two years before BD. BD was instigated my me because I insisted on knowing what was wrong with my H because he was acting so strangely. In hindsight, he had been showing me "signs" for a long time. He only BD'd me because I insisted on knowing why he was acting the way he was and that was the catalyst for him continuing the behaviour, now, far more openly with the depression, crying, anger etc., whereas before he was imploding all the time.. I could see he was but couldn't figure out why. Unfortunately, now I do know and ignorance was bliss for a while.
It does seem like a very long road without many clear signposts and a lot of fog. I'm grateful for this forum and the wonderful help.
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I think there are more clues about when it all began when the mlcer starts showing overt depression but there are clues in replay, too.
Listen to the things they say, what they allude to when they monster and project, and in their actions and innactions during replay. Not just with you but with everyone else and themselves.
I pinpoint the start of my h back to 7 years ago when his stepfather died.
It was slowly simmering, in fact, he was so cold and indifferent to the Oger's death, at thevtime I thought: yes! We can now move on....
How wrong was I. But my h is an introvert and passive aggressive.
2006 was also the time where my agoraphobia was at its worse, our daughter started high school, her period and was a very confused little girl about her sexuality. Bless her, she thought she was a lesbian.
She isn't by the way.
2006 was also the time his mother came back on the scene and thus bringing the nasty past back to life.
From then until 2009 I can not pinpoint anything major, although 2009 was when I crept out of my agoraphobia and regained confidence in myself, freedom and lust for life.
Ah, just remembered: h started his own construction business with his druggy buddy. It didn't work too well. It was doing Ok, but not good enough for my h and his buddy who then had unrealistic ambitions.
Druggy buddy pulls out and starts his own windows business, leaving h behind, and reaping all the rewards of what my h had taught him. Druggy buddy was pretty much his apprentice before that.
2010: symptoms of mlc start to show. I can feel something isn't right but I put it down to life stresses. H buys a brandnew VW sports van, gorgeous vehicle h said: I work hard, I want something to show for it and I deserve it. I validated and saix: yes, you do!
March:2010, we go onto a new business, ran by me in support so that h could carry on with his day job.
Business was doing good, then h has a fall out with our associates and bam! Business pulled from under our feet.
I was devastated, I had worked hard to set it all up and yes, h, felt guilty for the loss and he should as he actuality double crossed our associates. Greed!
His greed grew and grew. He started to resent the kids, saying that whdn he was 16 he had left home and was autonomous (yesh, you were and look where that got you today, autonomous without choice and parental support). Why should our kids want that or why should we as their parents?!!!!! H, I am guessing, felt he was dealt an unfaircdeal and as he coped with it (ish) everybody should experience it. Whatever. Kids and I humoured him, although the kids now tell me they hated him for suggesting they should leave.
2011: D then just turned 16 and was self harming. We found out through school. She was bullied. I took over because h was a bot useless, D went through counselling and we closed that door.
No problems with her since but massive trigger for h.
His physical mlc symptoms start to show: bad stomach, loss of appetite, bad indigestion, insomnia, fractured sleep, anxiety, anger, night sweats etc....I am getting the blame:it's you waking me up in tne night, it must be you!
Then, anything I cooked was making him ill, so I try and try to fix that, but anything I did or said was wrong.
I am still oblivious to his mlc and just carry on.
I go out more, to gal and to give him space. If I stayed he withdrew, if I went out , he withdrew. I now feel he was setting me up for failure.
Of course by then, my a ctions were seen as needy and clingy.
2012: replay begins
He goes off to Amsterdam with druggy buddy, then Canada on his own.
Both places he had fond memories off.....without me there. Back to age 16_19.
I get a nasty blast of his tongue after I joked about him and prostitutes in Amsterdam, he says: you should be gkad I don't on you, so and so does it all the time to his wife AND she's beautiful.
Ouch!
I brushed it off. Then true withdraw came, I grew more and more desperate to get through him, without being aware of it and october 2012 I get:
Don't love you anymore
Don't fancy you amymore
You do everything for me
I need my own space
We can still be friends, we have to.
I convince him to give it another shot, he agrees because :he still have feelings for me.
2 weeks later, I realise he's not into it all and he tells me that he has no feelings for me whatsoever and he only slept with me because the sex was good. Manipulation, I was desperate and aiming to please, and he knew it! Treated me like a ow basically,
After that he clang and clang until oct 2013 when I put a stop to the clinging/cake eating madness. 2 weeks ago he turns it against me and tries to make it sound like it was his idea. Control freak!
Now, he's bought all the mlc toys and accessories. They bring him joy but shortly.
He's moved 4 times, none of the locations are permanent or even his.
Anyway, it is not until you some crazy behaviour that you can see it for mlc.
And don't confuse triggers for causes. Triggers awaken the bad feelings already firmly planted but dormant. That's when the $h!te hits the fan and we get the blame for making him them 'feel that way' and we get the blame, sometimes, for jyst being present at the times.
Look into theor FOo issues because I think that most of the time that is were the patterns and blue prints of their replay lay. They feel pushed to act upon those awakened feelings.
Everything becomes about their feelings and emotions.
My h doesn't really want to let me go, I know that now after 2 weeks of crying over freshly dropped bd 2: I never want to see or heae from you ever again.
I had kade complaints you see, and that, I'm sure, poked the freshly awakened feelings of failure and rejection in him.
With my h, it's all about the Foo,
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My experience of the time frame alters sometimes when I'm remembering an event in the past and begin to see that there was clearly something "wrong" at that time but didn't have enough of a string of things to fit them together to make the MLC diagnosis.
I think, from my reflections, it was at least two years before BD. BD was instigated my me because I insisted on knowing what was wrong with my H because he was acting so strangely. In hindsight, he had been showing me "signs" for a long time. He only BD'd me because I insisted on knowing why he was acting the way he was and that was the catalyst for him continuing the behaviour, now, far more openly with the depression, crying, anger etc., whereas before he was imploding all the time.. I could see he was but couldn't figure out why. Unfortunately, now I do know and ignorance was bliss for a while.
It does seem like a very long road without many clear signposts and a lot of fog. I'm grateful for this forum and the wonderful help.
Thank you Summer90 for your input, it would seem so far with this thread that a two year lead in to bomb drop is a popular theme,with your insight I can see a catalyst with my ex as she was treating me so badly at the time I refused to go to a friends wedding party with her and things went down hill from there,take care.
Regards
Jackolar
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Jackolar, "forever" is really about five years.
I think if you look to my situation and that of Boobo that "forever" can be a bit more than 5 years, but maybe mine is an extreme case. But I do tend to agree there is a kind of 2 year run up to some sort of bomb is dropped on you. Replay can go "forever" so its not a straight forward one size fits all.
So does it all matter ? maybe yes, maybe no, but it all makes for an interesting debate.
Lanzo
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The seeds for W MLC were planted with major FOO issues and compounded with death and deathbed disclosure of secret from MIL 5 years ago (the only parent W knew).
W had previously always been on top of everyday budget and done an excellent job. I was the big ticket item budget guy. We hadn't done any big ticket items for about three years. Every time I looked at finances for these the financial picture was exactly as expected.
BD: 3/13
A week later W disclosed an accumulation of debt.
A week after that I dig around and find debt issues much bigger than portrayed.
Debt run up began of course around two years prior to BD.
There is something to this two year thing.
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Jackolar, "forever" is really about five years.
I think if you look to my situation and that of Boobo that "forever" can be a bit more than 5 years, but maybe mine is an extreme case. But I do tend to agree there is a kind of 2 year run up to some sort of bomb is dropped on you. Replay can go "forever" so its not a straight forward one size fits all.
So does it all matter ? maybe yes, maybe no, but it all makes for an interesting debate.
Lanzo
Thank you Lanzo the more we know the more we can pass on to others,thank you for your perspective.
Regards
Jackolar
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What a great thread.....
I struggle with my /H's timeline because there have been a number of things that have happened to him over the years (some avoidable, some self inflicted etc). I listed my first BD as Dec 2011 when he told me in a restaurant whilst we were having a family lunch that he did not want to be included in family weekend plans any longer. He felt trapped and wanted his own space to browse shops and wanted freedom (ha ha ha...how naive I was)........... Well, this bit of space ended up being a night out every weekend, and then some shopping on his own, camping trips, gadget buying, kitchen purchases, a new car because the existing one did not fit his lifestyle or image, and apparently it was time to live life the way he wanted to because he would wake up in 10 years time and either die or realise he had done 'nothing'. He wanted to ignore the capital payment on the mortgage for a while and enjoy ourselves because it was the only time we had (I was totally taken in) All seemed to make sense at the time, he had an excuse for everything. His complaints about me got worse - silly really because I still did not know what was going on.
He has admitted he has been depressed 'for years' and I actually think he is right. There was always something a bit off - in the beginning when we were together he was happy, everyones friend and I think he just became darker as the years went on. I honestly think that S being born was a trigger, not because of S exactly but because I stopped working. I think that had a lot to do with this whole thing. He felt burdened by the financial responsibility. But I can also see odd events back to 2003 and he was always very different after a few drinks......what is it they say about alcohol and the shadow? So was this just 'him', depression or MLC? I really cannot tell when this whole thing started.
All I can say is in the last few months, when monster has not made an appearance, there has been a totally different personality appear, one that I had not see before. Where my H is in this process, I really do not know. H has been in replay for over 2 years now. I would like to think he may be approaching the tail end of it, but I know thats wishful thinking!
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I think there are more clues about when it all began when the mlcer starts showing overt depression but there are clues in replay, too.
Listen to the things they say, what they allude to when they monster and project, and in their actions and innactions during replay. Not just with you but with everyone else and themselves.
I pinpoint the start of my h back to 7 years ago when his stepfather died.
It was slowly simmering, in fact, he was so cold and indifferent to the Oger's death, at thevtime I thought: yes! We can now move on....
How wrong was I. But my h is an introvert and passive aggressive.
2006 was also the time where my agoraphobia was at its worse, our daughter started high school, her period and was a very confused little girl about her sexuality. Bless her, she thought she was a lesbian.
She isn't by the way.
2006 was also the time his mother came back on the scene and thus bringing the nasty past back to life.
From then until 2009 I can not pinpoint anything major, although 2009 was when I crept out of my agoraphobia and regained confidence in myself, freedom and lust for life.
Ah, just remembered: h started his own construction business with his druggy buddy. It didn't work too well. It was doing Ok, but not good enough for my h and his buddy who then had unrealistic ambitions.
Druggy buddy pulls out and starts his own windows business, leaving h behind, and reaping all the rewards of what my h had taught him. Druggy buddy was pretty much his apprentice before that.
2010: symptoms of mlc start to show. I can feel something isn't right but I put it down to life stresses. H buys a brandnew VW sports van, gorgeous vehicle h said: I work hard, I want something to show for it and I deserve it. I validated and saix: yes, you do!
March:2010, we go onto a new business, ran by me in support so that h could carry on with his day job.
Business was doing good, then h has a fall out with our associates and bam! Business pulled from under our feet.
I was devastated, I had worked hard to set it all up and yes, h, felt guilty for the loss and he should as he actuality double crossed our associates. Greed!
His greed grew and grew. He started to resent the kids, saying that whdn he was 16 he had left home and was autonomous (yesh, you were and look where that got you today, autonomous without choice and parental support). Why should our kids want that or why should we as their parents?!!!!! H, I am guessing, felt he was dealt an unfaircdeal and as he coped with it (ish) everybody should experience it. Whatever. Kids and I humoured him, although the kids now tell me they hated him for suggesting they should leave.
2011: D then just turned 16 and was self harming. We found out through school. She was bullied. I took over because h was a bot useless, D went through counselling and we closed that door.
No problems with her since but massive trigger for h.
His physical mlc symptoms start to show: bad stomach, loss of appetite, bad indigestion, insomnia, fractured sleep, anxiety, anger, night sweats etc....I am getting the blame:it's you waking me up in tne night, it must be you!
Then, anything I cooked was making him ill, so I try and try to fix that, but anything I did or said was wrong.
I am still oblivious to his mlc and just carry on.
I go out more, to gal and to give him space. If I stayed he withdrew, if I went out , he withdrew. I now feel he was setting me up for failure.
Of course by then, my a ctions were seen as needy and clingy.
2012: replay begins
He goes off to Amsterdam with druggy buddy, then Canada on his own.
Both places he had fond memories off.....without me there. Back to age 16_19.
I get a nasty blast of his tongue after I joked about him and prostitutes in Amsterdam, he says: you should be gkad I don't on you, so and so does it all the time to his wife AND she's beautiful.
Ouch!
I brushed it off. Then true withdraw came, I grew more and more desperate to get through him, without being aware of it and october 2012 I get:
Don't love you anymore
Don't fancy you amymore
You do everything for me
I need my own space
We can still be friends, we have to.
I convince him to give it another shot, he agrees because :he still have feelings for me.
2 weeks later, I realise he's not into it all and he tells me that he has no feelings for me whatsoever and he only slept with me because the sex was good. Manipulation, I was desperate and aiming to please, and he knew it! Treated me like a wh*re basically,
After that he clang and clang until oct 2013 when I put a stop to the clinging/cake eating madness. 2 weeks ago he turns it against me and tries to make it sound like it was his idea. Control freak!
Now, he's bought all the mlc toys and accessories. They bring him joy but shortly.
He's moved 4 times, none of the locations are permanent or even his.
Anyway, it is not until you some crazy behaviour that you can see it for mlc.
And don't confuse triggers for causes. Triggers awaken the bad feelings already firmly planted but dormant. That's when the $hit hits the fan and we get the blame for making him them 'feel that way' and we get the blame, sometimes, for jyst being present at the times.
Look into theor FOo issues because I think that most of the time that is were the patterns and blue prints of their replay lay. They feel pushed to act upon those awakened feelings.
Everything becomes about their feelings and emotions.
My h doesn't really want to let me go, I know that now after 2 weeks of crying over freshly dropped bd 2: I never want to see or heae from you ever again.
I had kade complaints you see, and that, I'm sure, poked the freshly awakened feelings of failure and rejection in him.
With my h, it's all about the Foo,
hi Booboo thanks for the input and your perspective on the Foo issues simmering away for years,I wonder if any one else has a Mlcer with this type of background.
Regards
Jackolar
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My H FOO is very much a blueprint for how he behaving now. His dad went out every night after dinner with the family, to the Italian club, out with the guys, on dates, etc...left my MIL home every night with the two kids. He didn't provide much money for the family either. As long as his selfish needs were met that's all that mattered. My h said he was never going to be like his dad...soooo he's a workhorse...unbeatable work ethic...oh and lies and has cheated like his dad. So basically, he is his dad except he provides for us and prides himself on the fact that he takes care of his wife and kids. No one can say he's like his father...uhhhhh ok....So my h is basically doing the same thing only he moved out to do it...FOO almost identical.
AS far as BD, I was thinking from what I have read and what seems to be what most people are saying is that BD is the beginning of replay or shortly into replay. So I thought when I heard those words in June ILYBINILWY, etc that that was BD. But, I mentioned in my story that my H had cheated about 3 years ago and got away with it until I found out; by then it was over and done. Someone suggested that maybe that was BD?? and it went unresolved and this new BD is just a continuation? So, what exactly is bomb drop? I have read the articles posted here and they are very helpful.. but it is a bit confusing.
If a one time mistake is just a cheating is it possible that this new BD/OW thing is the real BD for MLC? Can you have both? FOO plays into both but which one is the BD that leads to MLC? I'm either 4 years in or 6 months I'm wondering if anyone else has this type of situation...and knowing what constitutes BD is helpful in the timeline.. :-\ I love reading everyone's thoughts and advice, makes me feel not so alone....
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My H FOO is very much a blueprint for how he behaving now. His dad went out every night after dinner with the family, to the Italian club, out with the guys, on dates, etc...left my MIL home every night with the two kids. He didn't provide much money for the family either. As long as his selfish needs were met that's all that mattered. My h said he was never going to be like his dad...soooo he's a workhorse...unbeatable work ethic...oh and lies and has cheated like his dad. So basically, he is his dad except he provides for us and prides himself on the fact that he takes care of his wife and kids. No one can say he's like his father...uhhhhh ok....So my h is basically doing the same thing only he moved out to do it...FOO almost identical.
AS far as BD, I was thinking from what I have read and what seems to be what most people are saying is that BD is the beginning of replay or shortly into replay. So I thought when I heard those words in June ILYBINILWY, etc that that was BD. But, I mentioned in my story that my H had cheated about 3 years ago and got away with it until I found out; by then it was over and done. Someone suggested that maybe that was BD?? and it went unresolved and this new BD is just a continuation? So, what exactly is bomb drop? I have read the articles posted here and they are very helpful.. but it is a bit confusing.
If a one time mistake is just a cheating is it possible that this new BD/OW thing is the real BD for MLC? Can you have both? FOO plays into both but which one is the BD that leads to MLC? I'm either 4 years in or 6 months I'm wondering if anyone else has this type of situation...and knowing what constitutes BD is helpful in the timeline.. :-\ I love reading everyone's thoughts and advice, makes me feel not so alone....
Hi An Angels Daughter my ex dropped the bomb and vanished,I think she must have committed adultery multiple times and enjoyed the hormone rush and stewed on her building resentment of me until she dropped the bomb and went and I would say she was comfortable with her decision ,she is self employed and had her liaisons during the day and her staff who all knew about her antics covered for her,her main colleague was my nephews partner (family)I asked her 6 months prior to BD what was wrong with the ex as she looked stressed and has always confided in her and she said she did not know,we had changed business premise 6 months prior so I just put it down to settling in stress.
When I found out about the colleagues covering up I asked my nephew why she did it and he said out of loyalty for my ex and I said what about loyalty to family(no answer given)he and his partner know more and they are keeping it from me and are not turning up for family events(feel uncomfortable)and don't keep eye contact with me(guilt) so I guesstimate two years prior to bomb drop for my Ex's stewing stage I wish I could be more accurate in the timeline,thank you for contributing and take care.
Regards
Jackolar
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Hi Angel,
I had a long period of escape and avoid from W (about 18 months) at the start of this period I got a torrent of monster abuse which included her saying if she needed to go outside the M for sex she would. Well when W got really distant from me I snooped and discovered a PA which had just started. I busted it. We agreed to reconcile, but W continued it as EA. Later when things were going bad I got the ILYBNILWY speech and the PA restarted and ran its course. We tried again to reconcile but her heart was never in, all that over a period of about 5 years
We’ve got to a point now where she has filed for a D, has been running with OM#2 for 9 months I think this gave her the courage to file (she always stopped short before) but that has now ended and she just wants a D (oh and all my money).
For me I don’t know the exact definition of the BD, but W seemed to have dropped a few them on me and then backed off. I’m in the situation where I would say she is in her second round of replay ie separation, escape & avoid then replay. The first one she was dumped by an OM she ran back to me. This second time she is determined to push ahead with the D and make it on her own (once she finds her identity).
Oh if all the above didn’t make sense, the point I’m making is a PA can happen and carry on before they drop the ILYBNILWY speech on you.
Lanzo
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Hi Lanzo your right,they have already started their new life before bomb drop and have been secretly doing this for years in Mlc. My ex used my daughters phone to say I'm gonna make it on my own(script) and she wanted all my money of which she got 50% split!she was furious over this as she wanted it all.
They run around starting in and out of affairs which last a few months or years having fun they say,who knows in their Mlc mind they are,I wonder if there are types that never drop out of Mlc and continue till they die?
It would be nice to have some feed back from mlcers male and female on their experiences and how they tried to repair the damaged caused afterwards.
Regards
Jackolar
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W mother died june 10 at only 53 just 6 weeks after birth of D3 and I can now look at April 2012 as BD1 which was completely out the blue but this only lasted a week or so then we had a year of absolute bliss. April 13 she started to distance again. There was no PA as I was she just did not have time. I can not rule out EA though. She had a terrible upbringing with abusive dad and mother who leaned on her for support. Then at 18 we had D15. She never really had teenage years. So I am looking at possibly 20 months in and 6 months of replay. Thing is you never know when liminality may start. It could be tomorrow and that is both hopeful yet painful due to the uncertainty.
My W is being very nasty as I am NC at present and is witholding the children now as I will not respond to her. I will not be blackmailed though. She needs to learn she can not control other people. I am prepared to suffer the pain if it helps her get out of this mess and I hope she appreciates this one day.
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Hi Braincell
I believe my ex was a couple of years build up and two years replay and still going strong,when she was younger she had plenty of fun as she was good looking then but 30years on she is dressing like she used to look in her teens,she poisoned my daughters against me and I'm making inroads this year to reconnect as they helped her cover her affairs up but I want them in my life regardless.
I would think about another two years for laminality when it comes and then rebirth and integration so probably about 6 years after the bomb so who knows and we live in hope and they may be different people that still don't want us.
Regards
Jackolar12
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Truth is Jacko I do not want her right now so in a way I am glad she is being so nasty. I think that my W is guilty and knows her behaviour is a disgrace. This can only help push her towards rock bottom as far as my understanding of the process.
It sounds strange but I think it will be of benefit not seeing the kids for a while. Everytime I have them I hear a new revolation which just sets me back. I know short term it will be nasty for the children but truth is the whole MLC process is hell for the kids. The sooner it is over the better but now I have a chance to truly detach and when she caves in and allows me access I hope to be rock solid and strong.
I know that my D3 will be pining for me and it hurts but this will also add to W reality check of how bad her behaviour is. This may initially push her further into replay but with NC I will be unaware. I would rather her be an angry high energy replayer than a content wallower with no obvious problems from her behaviour.
She wants contact for both security and someone to project on to. F#ck her with all due respect! She can project against OM. I am not here to be her punch bag.
I informed her whilst setting the boundary that I believed in her and I will be here to talk when she starts behaving appropriately. Thats the last nice paving stone she will get if me. From now on its about respect and her realising its her causing problems in her life.
I love my kids more than life itself but pandering to her mums demands will not help W or the kids. She needs tough love now and I am one tough SOB!!
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Hi Jockolar,
My W used to go out with her BFF soon after we got married and they would act as single ladies chat and flirt with guys however the BFF would cheat on her marriage(she’s not in MLC) but W would stop short, obviously these nights out would stir something in W as she would come home and wake me up for sex. One of the feelings I had back then was W would never cheat but she wanted to be (like) her BFF.
Fast forward to where we are today, W has cut off her BFF and I believe she is trying on the BFF persona for size. OM#2 is my sitch is a former F buddie of BFF, and I know other potential OM in W phone book were met through BFF.
Oh, last point on BFF, she had a chosen lifestyle and I know her reasons for cheating on her M but she did become a good friend of mine and she was a strong advocate of W staying in the M, I think this is another reason why W has cut her off.
Lanzo
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I believe my Hs MLC started in 2010-11, BD was 9/2013. I was depressed, he couldn't deal with it any longer and couldn't stand the fact that he couldn't help me get better. So, he started running away for work in 2010. He moved us into our "dream house," did some work on it and then immediately started traveling all the time for work. I think he thought he could buy me the house I wanted, get it semi-fixed up, then just go do what he wanted and I would be happy. He has been laying the groundwork for leaving for years. I don't believe it was done consciously, but nevertheless...
FOO issues: parents D when H was 4, father was abusing mom and putting baby brother in danger (I think). Mom got help from her in laws to get back on her feet and get an education. They lived in poverty for at least part of the time, though, because mom was "too proud" to ask for more help from in laws. Living in poverty had a profound effect on my H and the way he approaches work and life. He is a workaholic now and will probably work himself to death and wishes he had more hours in each day.
So, I think my Hs ultimate goal is to provide for my D in a worldly way. She has never wanted for anything. She is also spoiled to the max by Hs mom (trying to make up for lack of money during her own kids' childhood??) He tried to do the same for me, but it wasn't enough because what I wanted was his love, emotional support, and companionship. He gradually withdrew those things over the last years because I "drove him to it."
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Hi Jackolar,
In response to your question about the FOO issues, my MLC H has lots of unresolved anger from his childhood, mainly related to not being heard, left out, not being loved etc.
At first, just after BD, I organised for H to see a psychologist as I believed he was quite mentally ill. I thought this because of all the "we shouldn't have married" "we don't get on" "we have nothing in common" "the children would be happier visiting us in separate households, it would be more fun for them" and his manic behaviour in other areas as well as his depression and the crying episodes along with all the stuff he was saying was just not true and never had been.
The psychologist, who luckily has many MLC clients, cited his childhood issues as the main reason for his MLC. She said that many men (and women) who come from strict households, had high expectations placed on them and felt generally unloved and unwanted were more likely to have a MLC then people from "normal" households. She also says that if the FOO have co-dependency issues, this is also a catalyst.
The psychologist has begun working on his self esteem and anxiety first (drug free) and when he is feeling more in control, will start on his inner child. She believes this will give him all the tools he needs for healing.
I can say that this approach seems to be working very well as his depression seems a lot better than at BD - which was three months ago and he is using meditation and reading lots of self-help books the psychologist recommends.
I know many people don't think therapy of any kind works for MLC people, but I think it's all in the approach and has a lot to do with the personality of each individual - some being more receptive to therapy than others. At the moment, my H does seem to benefit from the sessions and does say he feels better after seeing her. It's still possible he's using her as an aid to escape his family(us) with thoughts like "If I'm a better man, women will want me" behind it all, time will tell on this front but he's happy with the results so far.
Hope this helps with the discussion.
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Interesting thread.
I definitely saw signs of withdrawal and emotional unavailability as well as increasing unhappiness with everything and everyone around with my H for about 2 years prior to BD. My BD was initiated by me, demanding to know what the heck was going on with him! (BD Mar 2013)
Prior to BD, I had caught him texting a girl he met in Vegas. This was after I had spoken with him about a girl that was treading too close to my turf with him. After BD, I learned this girl had been his apparent first EA/PA, all occurring before my BD.
I am like a lot of others in that I get some comfort from a "timeline" or stages. Obviously my H is in replay. He's a low energy wallower even though he is on OW 2 (unsure of nature of R presently). I see lots of pity, lots of tears and lots of depression, but no action to change. And so...I stand. Very reluctantly some days.
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Hi Jockolar,
We are now just into 2014 and I am involved in a protracted D with W but let me throw some so time lines out at you (this is a concise version of my time lines)
1993: W and I met (we had really fun times together)
1995: W and I got engaged we had good times but we always seemed to have little fallouts where either of us sulked for weeks.
1997:Married we argued on our honeymoon
1998 W walked out on me and went to her mothers, however we got back together when I agree to sell my house and buy one with W.
2001: We have D12, very bad pregnancy we nearly lost both of them. When W better and D12 at home, out of the blue I get a venomus spew from W which shock me to the core, it was so abusive towards me and my family that I had to write down every word she said because I knew its significance would be explained in future years. This was the first appearance of monster but it disappeared and was not seen again for a few years.
2004: W screamed at me this marriage is over and we had a long period of no talking.
2005: I discovered PA just as it started, it carried on through 2006 as EA even though we tried to reconsile.
2007: ILYBNILWY The EA went back to PA continued but ends. W attempts to reconcile. Also dis cover a PA ongoing since 1999 “someone she talked to about our marriage problems”.
2009: I tell W F off I’ve had enough but she begs me to stay in the M.
2010: We are still together but FIL sick with Cancer, my mother suffering with diabetes and heart failure, no time for us to look at our problems.
2011: Both parents die, I discover W still in contact OM from 2005 so I tell her its over. W first begs me to stay then wants to D but does nothing about it.
2013: W involved with OM#2 and files for a D. OM bins W after 9 months.
2014: D ongoing and W trying to screw me for every penny I have.
see if you can pick a BD out of all that.
Lanzo
hi Lanzo man you have had a real roller coaster ride,I would say mini bomb drop one in 1998, mini bomb two in 2005 and bomb drop proper in 2007, what type is she a vanisher? And any sign of replay ending ? Take care of yourself Lanzo.
Regards
Jackolar
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Lanzo - wow. Talk about being put through the wringer! An ongoing PA for 9 years?!? Do you think this is MLC or just indicative of a character flaw in your W?
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Hi Jackolar,
Yep its been a real rollercoaster with STBXW, I honestly don’t know what she is looking for in life but whatever it is it doesn’t include me. I agree 2007 was the real BD, at that point her one night stand with OM#1 was an EA but once the bomb was dropped it went physical again. When that ended she wanted to work on the M but it never felt right and I don’t think her heart was in it.
I would say W is a type of clinger, she wants out of the M but she won’t leave the house, she won’t leave me, in fact we are going through the D process and she is making it her aim to take as much money from me as she can, in fact my money will be supporting her in her new life when the courts make their ruling.
Right now she has been dumped by OM#2 but is still in replay, she goes out when she pleases and comes back at late hours and is a monster to me 24/7, mainly passive as I avoid interaction with her around the house. I would say she’s right in the middle of her tunnel as she seems so sure and determined in the direction that she is going. If I look at our very long time line I don’t think she’ll be out of replay anytime soon, I think it will take divorce and a few years away from me for that to happen.
Hi Thundarr,
That should say an EA from 1999 some guy she used to chat to on the phone, I actually confronted him and he soon scarpered. STBXW seems by her nature always seem have male friends in her phone book that she could call on for a “chat”.
Separate PA 2006 – 07 & 2013. OM#1 was someone she picked up in a club, OM#2 was someone she met years ago through her then bff at the time. Everyone always saw W as a spoilt pampered princess, Flawed character or MLC ? probably both.
Lanzo
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Hi Jackolar,
Yep its been a real rollercoaster with STBXW, I honestly don’t know what she is looking for in life but whatever it is it doesn’t include me. I agree 2007 was the real BD, at that point her one night stand with OM#1 was an EA but once the bomb was dropped it went physical again. When that ended she wanted to work on the M but it never felt right and I don’t think her heart was in it.
I would say W is a type of clinger, she wants out of the M but she won’t leave the house, she won’t leave me, in fact we are going through the D process and she is making it her aim to take as much money from me as she can, in fact my money will be supporting her in her new life when the courts make their ruling.
Right now she has been dumped by OM#2 but is still in replay, she goes out when she pleases and comes back at late hours and is a monster to me 24/7, mainly passive as I avoid interaction with her around the house. I would say she’s right in the middle of her tunnel as she seems so sure and determined in the direction that she is going. If I look at our very long time line I don’t think she’ll be out of replay anytime soon, I think it will take divorce and a few years away from me for that to happen.
Hi Thundarr,
That should say an EA from 1999 some guy she used to chat to on the phone, I actually confronted him and he soon scarpered. STBXW seems by her nature always seem have male friends in her phone book that she could call on for a “chat”.
Separate PA 2006 – 07 & 2013. OM#1 was someone she picked up in a club, OM#2 was someone she met years ago through her then bff at the time. Everyone always saw W as a spoilt pampered princess, Flawed character or MLC ? probably both.
Lanzo. Hi Lanzo my ex is starting her third year in replay and she has been with the new alienator for about 18 months, she stole him from a 33 year marriage I met his wife and she was terribly upset as you can imagine. Both divorces are finalised and if it goes according to script I expect them to marry this year and let's see what happens,he cheated on his ex before so with my ex and him it is only a matter of time before one of them cheats on the other.
My ex was dead sure what she wanted and it is such a shame to see her destroying her previously good name and nature and like you Lanzo I think I'm about three years from seeing any progress.
With the divorce settlement she had the better deal by about £50,000 and there was nothing I could do about this as my costs were escalating,I think when things are done and dusted and you find your own place and adjust to the solitude you will find an inner peace which you need now as you are going through a living nightmare.
At this moment in time I cannot engage with women other than flirting which they love,over Xmas I had an offer to go home with one at the end of the night which panicked me and I said no and I believe I can be with no other just her and she's a train wreck so I guess I will be alone a long time Lanzo, take care.
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2 - 7 years is the average for MLC, but I think my STBXW is an extreme case.
D12 relayed to me a conversation with STBXW about their future residence. W said "carpets in the bath room are un hygienic because men always pee on them and they become smelly and your dad is disgusting because that's the sort of thing he does". D12 got upset and shouted back "Why do you always try to make things about dad when he wasn't even the subject of the conversation". D told me that STBXW apologised the next morning for upsetting her.
The reason I mentioned that conversation is that it shows W will project on me at any opportunity, she is still in replay, deep in her tunnel even though we are a good number of years past the original BD.
Lanzo
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Hey people.
Tbh , l'm still not even sure this is mlc with W because of our circumstances. Which is gonna sound pretty dumb because she actually went into early menopause , 39 but hid it completely. But even hiding it might be explainable because l'd become really close to and spending time with one of our friends who was younger than w so l suspect she didn't want to admit it.
But we'd had 5yrs of trying to settle in a very hard new area , 3hrs from family and after living and moving about interstate for 1o yrs. We were exhausted when we got here and l became really depressed about not getting work or buy a home for my family but w wanted to stay here , she just had to stop and settle ,we both did.
lt took 41/2 yrs to finally get steady work and we picked up a cheap renovator on 1 ac.
But it needed heaps of work to even get it livable , it took us 6mths to get the finance. l also had a new little business and l hated the new spot where the house is. l actually became even more down through just tiredness, the new are and l too was also wondering what was going to become of the rest of my life.
Meanwhile wife had started a new job , hard hrs,new work crowd , she was also doing a course, coping with the run down house , my moods because l was going 7days a wk on house or work and - she came into menopause and depression. So the poor thing was coping with one hell of a lot of sh!t .We were , extremely irritable , depressed .
Then friends came down to stay and l get along really well with one of them . But W was crashing at 7 or 8 every night , l just needed to have some damn fun . But l didn't sleep with the friend, we were just partying with the others , we were close but l still loved my W and didn't want an affair.
A lot of the time we actually thought we were helping her because there's no way l can go to bed at those hrs so we'd shut all the doors , kept it down and left her in peace . she's told me a 100 times that's all she needed, lots of early nights and didn't expect me to just sit around alone. She knew how much l'd done , work,the house .
Well the friends were coming and going over 14mths , often staying over.
4mths before we separated l also started sleeping in the lounge. l had to . W started being really wrestless all night , a lot of noise and l was often awake all night.
6 wks before telling me she wanted to separate though, she told me she still loved me and wanted to grow old together .
l had to think about that because she hadn't been acting that way and l was confused myself but we did cuddle and l said l felt the same but that l was very surprised .
About 3 wks after that , she was in bed at 7 as usual so l went in to tslk to her . l'd had big light bulb moments and realized how miserable l'd been around her , her me , we'd just lost the plot through everything . l couldn't wait to cuddle her and talk.
Well , she'd been working on a separation letter , seeing counselors and shrinks and gave me the letter.
She told me everything , the menopausing , the depression , the doctors , about how l was in love with and turned on by the friend , how l hated it there and we'll never settle down , our money worries , how she thought l was gonna leave her or at least move out of the house and set up the shed.
These were all things she'd been hiding and living with scared and depressed for 18mths. lt broke my heart.
But then , she tells me about some friend she'd met . 3wks after saying she wanted to grow old with me.
And he'd been very supportive , she wants to separate and start seeing him. She was even holding back her excitement .
She said she didn't even think l'd care , l was in love with the friend and leaving anyway. she said we'd become so different , how the skrinks explained that l was one personality and she was another , lots of other stuff about us. But we'd also always been just a classic couple too before all this. People use to just stare at us all the time at the way we'd normally get along and how into each other we were.
This stuff is mostly in my thread but to see if it even is an mlc , you have to know the big picture so sorry to anyone that's read it.
But l can say 3yrs before , along with stresses , in and out of depression myself too , some ugly fights , is when she started becoming distant and seemed un caring which is actually what made me become distant in the first place . She also completely stopped looking after herself , lounging around night after night just tv ,bed.
l couldn't really say though there was anything else much , no real changes in her . Just seemingly caring less and less. lt was all serious us signs though l realized later, time to act then, tlc us again. , get myself together .
Then we'd had a very stressful time trying to finance the house , finally got in and for 5-6 mths we all loved it and things got a bit better between us. But l also had so much to do there was no time. Then we had neighbour troubles and l really started to hate the spot and all my wife's stuff also started to happen to unbeknown to me , then the friends too.
But it wasn't until our last 3mths , l saw other things with her. She started going to a few work things with the new crowd. Then around to new friends places. There'd also been heaps of self help books around the house and she started putting Zen quotes up on the fridge. She'd normally mock all that stuff. Then new music and she started losing weight and buying clothes.
l've gotta say , during the worst most heartbreaking fight we had after she told me , she looked the best she had in 5yrs.
Then she moved out into town and we decided my d 12 should go with her too , 10mins away.
For the first 6mths of that , she was wearing all different clothes, hair different and salons every few wks , she was looking really nice.
God knows why , you should of seen this guy , one strange funny looking dude . Talk about sell herself short. Her personality was all bright and cherpie too , considering she'd just blown up her family after 18yrs. lt was as if the world was just great.
Well , we split 14mths ago and about after the first 6mths , she started letting herself go again. Then she went l'm pretty sure into depression again it seemed . Put on more weight and looking very crap again.
her personalities changed a lot since. As if she's just let herself go , like who gives a fk basically.
She's still very good to me and has been very open and fair with me and my d and all our debts and repayments .
l see her 3 or 4 times a wk coming and going for my d and l often spend 3 or4hrs over there midwk to be with my d. W usually sticks around to and is lately very much the way she was again now , 3-4yrs ago.
We ring if business or d , sometimes small stuff , but l couldn't really say she goes out of her way to call or visit though.
l think l'd still like to R , not sure though but with me coming and going for d , l often wonder if W might call more if she wasn't seeing me. At about 6mths we also text all nighters a few times and she talked about everything and her guilt , how sorry she was and how she'd made such a mess.
So mlc or perfect storm , l don't know but l do think if mot for her menopausing frame of mind she would've wanted to save our family .
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Hi hawk mid life crisis script for sure,they do a 180 turn want to be teenage again and affair down because to the other person they are special and feel valued again, 3-4 years on she's in laminality(is she still with the alienator?)she has admitted her responsibility which is great and sounds like she is transitioning into rebirth and reintegration,if you still want her hang on in there and show her kindness,love and support and let me know your progress friend, mines going into her third year and is no contact and still in escape and avoid and I'm still standing for her and she did a lot of sleeping early before she dropped the bomb and when she did she said the craziest things like a teenager would it totally boggled my brain.
Regards Jackolar Wales uk
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Just wondering, did people see their significant other lose contact with their family for quite awhile before BD? I did and it concerned me. I think that is when I realized he was disconnecting with all of us and really depressed.
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yes thinking about it now my h starting saying he didnt want this person or that person in his life any more he was sick of them , doesnt need them , he apologised to me for all the things he had put me through 20 years ago, he was sorry we didnt have the big house he was sorry he didnt have any money and we never had any (we used to go on holidays all the time to Florida as a family and to Tenerife just the two of us and weekends awway , I NEVER showed any disattifaction with our life and what we had and where we were) but prior to BD i fell out with my friend after working for her we were fiends for 45 years so this caused me to have no in come and made me quite depressed )
h went on THAT holiday in Dec 11 then came back and on Jan 27 2012 told me he just had to do this and wanted a divorce was totally shell shocked as everything else seemed to be fine ???
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Just wondering, did people see their significant other lose contact with their family for quite awhile before BD? I did and it concerned me. I think that is when I realized he was disconnecting with all of us and really depressed.
Hard for me to tell with mine, but I do know for the longest time, she only had contact with her mother. Her father is deceased and the rest of her family is about as dysfunctional as it gets (both ours are)!
She also started disconnecting with certain friends and gaining new ones. Not a younger crowd as one would expect, just different.
Recently she has reconnected with a couple of her cousins and some other family. Her original "BFF" is also just now coming back into the picture after about 1.5 years (they had contact, but weren't tied to the hip like they were). In fact, the two of them are having lunch tomorrow and doing some shopping (i.e. I get to GAL and go blast down targets at the range! ;))
-OneByOne-
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You think Jack , thanks very much for that reply . l know the others have thought so to but me , hell with everything else that was going on with us and her , basically l was just as confused as hell about all that side of things.
And thanks so much for the instructions on how to be with her now as l've been so mixed about all that also , with anger often hovering around underneath even still.
l'm not sure if om is still around , he's not allowed round my daughter and W is home everey night and it seems most wkends to when l have d so l just can't tell . l could ask her but l'm not ready for the answer so l haven't.
Just on family stuff . Mine started seeing more of her family . For awhile she was using them as support for my d and her . l said your fkg family is not going to replace our daughters family or father so don't for one second think that's going to happen. There was a fight and l blasted her for forcing them onto my d so early on and with what she was already trying to deal with.
Mine are 3hrs away and d and l have never driven down just us two so l've held back on that until she adjusts a better.
W is still seeing a lot of hers , they're 2hrs away . She's become really close to her mum agaion - who never did like me much and the parents often come up for the day.
The mum stayed 2wks a few wks before Christmas . l had to come and go for d , seeing the mil , never thought l'd see her again , one nice thing.
She was pretty b!tchy and l think she'd was influencing W a fair bit .
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Roughly the first half of our relationship we didn't see much of H's family; the second half we were very close. So basically 8 years off then 8 years on. About 6 months after BD H cut ties with family. I was already having a hard time dealing with BD and I was furious about him pulling away from the family. The family has been going through a lot and we had a wonderful support system until H blew all to hell. It angered me that he destroyed my support system but infuriated me that he took his support away from them when they really needed it. I am still welcomed in his family with open arms even though I find it difficult to go to them except for his dad.
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My H was never really close to his parents. His mom was a controlling B***H. H was more of a rebel teenager. we pretty much had no relationship with them our entire marriage. we only saw them on holidays, and an occasional dinner invite. While H was taking a break for 2 weeks before BD living with his buddy, he reconnected with his dad. Discussed his issues with his dad while having a beer. This was a big deal. H's parents are extremely conservative and do not drink. Come to find out, H was reaching out to his dad to ask for advice about how to leave me. He is playing the victim really well. He has told everyone that he's been living a lie, that I was horrible to him. His parents do not know not to believe him because they had no relationship with him. they don't really know him. Or me, for that matter. But right after BD, H went too dinner at his parents house atleast once a week, and said he was so happy to be reconnecting with them. his mom even took him to Florida. So, his parents are really encouraging him to do this. i'm screwed. they bought him a bed for his apt, and have even offered to pay for the D. If they really knew their son, and anything about us, they would know something was off. But they are thrilled that he is reconnecting with them. therefore, I am the devil and they tell him he is doing the right thing. Its so frustrating.
So, I have his parents and his rommate cheering him on. His roommate is recently divorced. I really worry about that. With all this encouragement, how is supposed to see he's messed up?!
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I thought I saw somewhere if the OW or OM is still in play, then the MLCer is still in replay. My MLCer OW is still in the picture since 7/10. Ugh.
Do you agree?
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I thought I saw somewhere if the OW or OM is still in play, then the MLCer is still in replay. My MLCer OW is still in the picture since 7/10. Ugh.
Do you agree?
Yeah it couldn't be good that's for sure. ldeally it'd be great for all that to just turn to sh!t and disintegrate . That's gotta hopefully get them rethinking the whole greener grass thing surely.
l know with mine , unless that turns to sh!t l don't think l've got a hope so everything's crossed.
l just can't tell without asking , there's no clues round the house or in her car. Even today when l picked up d , W said she was just gonna spend the day on the couch , works been pretty heavy.
Surely if there is still om she'd be rushing to him after being home bound every night of the wk.
She has changed a lot around me just of 3-4mths now. There's been some hand touches and brushing , few footsies, could be teasing/testing to though - like is my plan B still there thing , not sure. She chops and changes a fair bit and every time l'm sure she's turning she does a flip back to whatever .
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My H was never really close to his parents. His mom was a controlling B***H. H was more of a rebel teenager. we pretty much had no relationship with them our entire marriage. we only saw them on holidays, and an occasional dinner invite. While H was taking a break for 2 weeks before BD living with his buddy, he reconnected with his dad. Discussed his issues with his dad while having a beer. This was a big deal. H's parents are extremely conservative and do not drink. Come to find out, H was reaching out to his dad to ask for advice about how to leave me. He is playing the victim really well. He has told everyone that he's been living a lie, that I was horrible to him. His parents do not know not to believe him because they had no relationship with him. they don't really know him. Or me, for that matter. But right after BD, H went too dinner at his parents house atleast once a week, and said he was so happy to be reconnecting with them. his mom even took him to Florida. So, his parents are really encouraging him to do this. i'm screwed. they bought him a bed for his apt, and have even offered to pay for the D. If they really knew their son, and anything about us, they would know something was off. But they are thrilled that he is reconnecting with them. therefore, I am the devil and they tell him he is doing the right thing. Its so frustrating.
So, I have his parents and his rommate cheering him on. His roommate is recently divorced. I really worry about that. With all this encouragement, how is supposed to see he's messed up?!
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Sorry about your sitch S . Pretty sure l've got the MIL in W's court myself to. l'm sure she;s thinking she gets to see her daughter and granddaughter now anytime she wants , life is good.
I lost both my parents 3 yrs ago so she doesn't even have to worry about competition any more .
Bad news for you is now it's gonna look like it was you keeping him away . Parents can be sooo selfish with this stuff l've noticed and they might not give a damn seems they're getting him back . l hope someone can offer some help with fighting that one , good luck to us both .
l decided l'm not gonna suck up to mil but l will try to just be comfortably nice kinda thing . See if l can bring her round a bit.
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My H was never really close to his parents. His mom was a controlling B***H. H was more of a rebel teenager. we pretty much had no relationship with them our entire marriage. we only saw them on holidays, and an occasional dinner invite. While H was taking a break for 2 weeks before BD living with his buddy, he reconnected with his dad. Discussed his issues with his dad while having a beer. This was a big deal. H's parents are extremely conservative and do not drink. Come to find out, H was reaching out to his dad to ask for advice about how to leave me. He is playing the victim really well. He has told everyone that he's been living a lie, that I was horrible to him. His parents do not know not to believe him because they had no relationship with him. they don't really know him. Or me, for that matter. But right after BD, H went too dinner at his parents house atleast once a week, and said he was so happy to be reconnecting with them. his mom even took him to Florida. So, his parents are really encouraging him to do this. i'm screwed. they bought him a bed for his apt, and have even offered to pay for the D. If they really knew their son, and anything about us, they would know something was off. But they are thrilled that he is reconnecting with them. therefore, I am the devil and they tell him he is doing the right thing. Its so frustrating.
So, I have his parents and his rommate cheering him on. His roommate is recently divorced. I really worry about that. With all this encouragement, how is supposed to see he's messed up?!
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Sorry about your sitch S . Pretty sure l've got the MIL in W's court myself to. l'm sure she;s thinking she gets to see her daughter and granddaughter now anytime she wants , life is good.
I lost both my parents 3 yrs ago so she doesn't even have to worry about competition any more .
Bad news for you is now it's gonna look like it was you keeping him away . Parents can be sooo selfish with this stuff l've noticed and they might not give a damn seems they're getting him back . l hope someone can offer some help with fighting that one , good luck to us both .
l decided l'm not gonna suck up to mil but l will try to just be comfortably nice kinda thing . See if l can bring her round a bit.
yup. h has already told me that i was the reason for their relationship suffereing.... say what???? they talk about it all the time. he even told me that his aunt and uncle said i was awkward to b around. thats bs. those people loved me. his mom and i didnt get along. i'm not one to put up with bs and fake people. i was respectful to her and nice, but we were not close. she used to save the wanted ads for h and circle them. lecturing him on getting a good job with insurance. all of the sudden he adores his mom. whats that about???? he used me as a scapegoat. he has painted me in an awful picture. and i hate it. he does it with his friends too. im the devil to everyone :( which couldnt be further from the truth.
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oh sh!t , that's no good. They wanna believe him to because they all get him back.
Tbh honest l have no idea what w has told anyone. lt's like the om , this has all been so hurtful and hard that l know l can't handle any more right now so l don't ask her side anything. l hate to think .
l reckon your chances will come though . lt's just that when x's start throwing round bs , they say their credit is eventually blown to bits and they start to look stupid.
Maybe if the right person pops up , that loves a bit of gosip you can quietly straighten things out with them knowing they'll tell the whole world for you after 8)
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ls it common for them to just spring divorce papers on you and to suddenly seem all rushed about getting it done ?
OR , a s she puts it , for closure so that we can both move forward from here .
She reckons it's not that she's gonna rush of and get married or anything like that. Not that l'd believe that , seems suss.
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ls it common for them to just spring divorce papers on you and to suddenly seem all rushed about getting it done ?
OR , a s she puts it , for closure so that we can both move forward from here .
She reckons it's not that she's gonna rush of and get married or anything like that. Not that l'd believe that , seems suss.
Hawk,
The way I understand it is when they push quickly for the D its because they have been planning in advance and just setting up the chess board to move into checkmate! This also is an indicator that the A is already established or the OP is waiting in the wings and Plan A and a soft place to land is in place! Most, but not always, the female MLCer does not want to be alone which is why this advanced planning is necessary!
Statistically, 75% of all D are initiated by women and once in progress, most tend to move quickly!
I was like a coiple other folks on here....I forced BD because I could see the disconenct and the tension from the white elephant in the room was unbearable! She is still at ho e and a clinging B that waffles regularly! I think she would be a clinger anyway but I forced BD before she had her plan in place and committed to it!
I can look back and see discontent as early as 2005, nut she wasnt "gone" yet! She still met me at the door whe I got home with a smile and a kiss and all that! Wasnt until around 2009ish that stuff stopped and the distancing started slowly! About this same time is when she had to have tummy tuck as follow up to bariatric surgery which was a mdeical necessity! Exercise programs became of interest at this time and she has since gone through 5 or 6 types of training regimines that always end within about 3-4 months tops! I see this as mild replay!
I believe the big trigger was when S21 left for military in June 2012! She was always more attached to him than anyone else and a counselor told me he believed she had cut me off and used my son as an emotional surrrogate! When he left, she didn't turn back to me! About 6 months later, De 2013 she met OM1 and the first EA began in April! She also found an exbf on FB at this time but it wasn't EA yet! Her attitude with me and sex life jumped from April to June 2013 and then she went b!tc# on me by july and was extremely critical of everything I did! I confronted and got BD on 20 July 2013. August cold and distant, Sept she waffled daily seemingly trying to reconnect! EA1 busted 1 Oct 2013! b!tc# mode and cold Oct - Nov 2013 and we together decided MC & IC at her suggestion. Hy this time she was getting coached by OM2 but not EA yet by my standards (no flirting or sexual charged talk). DEC 2013 - Jan 2014 major t&g followed by cold push in Feb 2014. Cycled back in March as EA2 began and I busted it on Mar 25 2014. Since then it has been a steady close friendship and very calm and amicable. She gets moody, but cycles back within a couple days or week tops.
I have rarely seen overt depression and she can compartmentalize very well to function. I believe she is still in replay by some of her actions but tapering off some! I dropped the rope and encourage her time alone and with friends. The more I do this the less she does.
She is more often thsn not willing to do things with me and has displayed more interest in me and calls and texts me more. A lot of her text is probing if I am out and she is unaware what I am doing. If I am reading on my tablet, she will jokingly say watcha reading but I yhink she is really wondering what I am doing because I have went dim and really dont engage unless she engages me and I GAL and do what I want when I want!
She has never left home....threatened / asked for divorce recently. I agreed to her terms and even tried to push it along by helping her plan out the split and encouraged it. I know this caught her off guard and called her bluff!
Kinda long winded but hopfuly some of my babble will help the thread!
Obo
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ls it common for them to just spring divorce papers on you and to suddenly seem all rushed about getting it done ?
OR , a s she puts it , for closure so that we can both move forward from here .
She reckons it's not that she's gonna rush of and get married or anything like that. Not that l'd believe that , seems suss.
Certainly not uncommon, especially from female MLCers.
From RCR in another thread
MLCers are hell-bent on divorce, so you are posting here in the same situation as most of the other posters. The exceptions are more liekly to be those with Clinging Boomerangs.
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ls it common for them to just spring divorce papers on you and to suddenly seem all rushed about getting it done ?
OR , a s she puts it , for closure so that we can both move forward from here .
She reckons it's not that she's gonna rush of and get married or anything like that. Not that l'd believe that , seems suss.
Certainly not uncommon, especially from female MLCers.
From RCR in another thread
MLCers are hell-bent on divorce, so you are posting here in the same situation as most of the other posters. The exceptions are more liekly to be those with Clinging Boomerangs.
And this is the sitch myself and others are in. Mine even has financial means to do it and still wont go even though I told I accepted her terms! Hell....she even said she consulted a lawyer and I said good....lets get on with it then!
Obo
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Let me also add something else, and I hope this isnt too off topic!
In my situation I think mine hasn't been successful yet in finding an appropriate OM for what she wants or is expecting! I belive, she is realizing a couple things:
1) men available in our age group are not interested in her; they are typically looking for a woman 10 or more years younger!
2) the two OM she did have either weren'T as committed or basically wanted her for a FWB and not much else! OM2 dropped her cold like a hot potato when I confronted him...I think she expected him to fight for her but he didn't....he went NC!
3) a younger man cant support her in the ways she wants.....again.....she would just a be a masturbatory tool!
4) her only reall hope is someone 10-15 years her senior and if she found one....odds are he wont marry! This is just a trend thing I am seeing/reading about!
Her current friends are a reality to this....all of them that are 40+ and single/divorced cannot find a man to commit....a couple of them have become OWs and are basically used as a mistress and the men will never leave their wives. Seen this with two of her friends personnaly....makes me laugh at their complete lack of SE and respect for themselves to be used! Theyare bitter, used, lonely women!
Done ranting!
Obo
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The way I understand it is when they push quickly for the D its because they have been planning in advance and just setting up the chess board to move into checkmate! This also is an indicator that the A is already established or the OP is waiting in the wings and Plan A and a soft place to land is in place! Most, but not always, the female MLCer does not want to be alone which is why this advanced planning is necessary!
Darth called it in his first paragraph, she has been secretly planning for years yet will try to convince you its something that has just happened. OM is already attached and in place.
As an aside my xW denied, denied, denied the existence of any OM even though I had all sorts of evidence to the contrary, once we were divorced, I mentioned OM's and her reply was I **** who I want and its non of your ***ing business.
Lanzo
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I've thought about this a bit since BD… looking back now I can see signs at least two years before. In fact, in Nov 2012 H announced suddenly that he was shutting down our construction business. It wasn't completely out of the blue, construction is a hard business and sometimes the money isn't as good as it should be, but that was his livelihood and the only thing he really knew how to do. We had started a small home services company in 2009 but it wasn't large enough to pay all the bills. We figured it out, and I supported and encouraged the quit, but looking back I believe it was MLC.
A few months after that we made the decision to sell our house and live full-time in an RV. We were both really excited about it, we sold out nearly everything, even left one of the dogs, and started an adventure. Not traveling, but living full-time in a local RV park. We talked about how we loved it and the simple life was awesome, which to this day we both agree it was. But I really think all of this was his way of looking for something to make him happy, to fix what he was feeling inside.
I can also see signs of pulling away a bit, although he kept up all of our little loving habits until the day I left home basically.
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In hindsight, I can see some signs of depression and detachment starting much earlier than BD. Abandoning old friends, not wanting to spend time with family, dropping his main hobby - guitar - and clinging to various videogames instead... this really sucks :/
A friend of mine told me her bf, now husband, went through something similar after they married... bored with life, avoiding married friends with families, sending dirty messages to OW on facebook... he didn't bold though nor did they break up. Now she tells me he's miserable and complaining about how boring life is. I wonder if he's leading up to a crisis or if he got over it without blowing up like our guys did?
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Reading through this thread today got me thinking about information I found written by my partner.
BD for me was just 3 months ago, completely unexpected after talking marriage plans.
Since then I've found some old emails dating back to 2011 where it seems my partner was questioning relationships as a whole, almost left me (unknown to me) and then in other emails seemed happy to have some one and proposed by the end of the year.
What started this? No idea, possibly an ex from her past had died early in 2011 and got her thinking?
If MLC starts before BD, then mine might have been 3 yrs considering what I found. I truly know she is the type that wouldn't have left the relationship until she had someone else waiting for her. She has cheated in the past on others, and been the other woman 2x I have recently found out.
She says she is an avoider and enjoys the "in-love" high!
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All in hindsight .. I saw the very 1st true indication that something was going wrong in april 2012. We were in Paris, France. I had a "tangle" with my youngest daughter and she started to cry. He lost his mind , circled her like I was going to attack her , became extremely angry and almost panicked . Later , he said several cutting remarks and was incredibly mean. I will never forget how shocked we were. He has 5 daughters... he is very accustomed to crying, drama queen teenage girls and always preferred to leave that to me. She said she cried because " daddy scared me". The look on his face was nothing i had seen before. I have seen him struggle with anger ( huge huge efforts to control it ... biting his lip and clenching jaw was a new thing ) , irritation, short fuse, working 20 hours a day . He was like trying to love a very angry cold moving target. Then he would suddenlywarm up, apologize for being "self consumed" and the back to scarey angry. I asked many times.. he always said it was work, not to worry, nothing else was wrong. This was a man that NEVER EVER even told me or his kids to even "shut up please". I believed him when he said it was all about work ... I was wrong. Bomb drop was May 2013. After bomb drop... about a week later... he said to me " I do not know how to retract what I have said". I asked him if he wanted to retract . He said NO.
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My bomb drop was April 2013 but too looking back i can see signs back to summer 2011 so almost 2 years prior.
He disconnected and was questioning choices...said he wished we had another baby but had never said before...we planned to finish my secondment and try the following summer.
That summer i found some porn on his phone. .he denied it and said D7 had stumbled across it by accident...i went to question her and he admitted it?
He too was questioning relationships and I found a convo on Facebook with old girlfriend.
He was depressed with work and very down and frustrates.
We had a family holiday Dec 2011 and he was very distant and we had separate beds?
Jan 2012 was hus 40th..i held a surprise party and he said he was paranoid and uncomfortable.
Had a mini BD.
We rekindled spring summer 2012 and had fun then hus dad diagnosed terminal On over and passed Dec.
We got through Xmas, his 4 1st birthday through to easter but he was angry touchy and distant.
BD April 2013.