Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: UnconditionalLove on October 23, 2014, 07:10:31 AM
-
My H is in an EA which may have turned PA. This has been going on for 9 months now or so. I know it's going on, I have cell phone records, he's come up missing and even just as of this last 2 weeks as been missing. He's back but never, ever will he admit he's in any kind of affair. So, I have nothing to go on about this relationship other than bits I already knew. I do know she's has a illness she is glued to my H about and H is glued to helping her and being her Knight. Also, they are doing a research paper together which is how this relationship started. Once the EA started he wanted out of marriage like now. He was in full replay and nothing was going to slow him down. He's still trying to get this divorce done fast but so far we haven't gotten his way but in his mind he's gone. Ring is now off and wedding necklace/cross is now off that he has worn for 31 years. I think some of that is being aggressive towards me. OW is in another state far away so their relationship is seen by me. I know he's on the phone and texting with her but he doesn't do it in front of me. He'll take a walk or leave.
He never tells me anything but then again I don't know anything about him emotionally about anything. That is really one of his issues. Will not communicate he's emotions. This relationship is a drug to him. That I do know and I believe he truly does believe he's in love. He has never done anything like this before MLC and he's so ready to move on and leave past behind. That is why my mind sometimes wants to wander into the...Yep, he's having a grand ole time, loving his life, loving his EA and there is no turning back for him. However, I do see that it full of distrust, dysfunctionally built and the whole opposites attract not happening and they are quite alike. I think at some point if not already she is going to get really controlling with him. But I don't know if my H will ever leave. It took him 30 years to leave this so called controlling lady. LOL!
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5632.0
-
I said, "You know what, you might be destroying me financially, absolutely obliterated me emotionally, but you haven't killed me. In a few years after I've rebuilt my life, I'll be better than ever and happier than ever. You'll be lonely and just as miserable as you are now."
For the first time since BD #2 in May, she started to cry. I saw some shame and sadness in her eyes for once instead of anger, and she replied, "You're probably right, and I'll be happy for you". Then I just walked away. I haven't said much to her since. She will come home from work and rant to me about how she hates her job, etc. I just listen and try to understand. Then she leaves not long afterwards for the bar and OM. I wonder if she rants about work to her OM? I doubt it, she probably rants about me only.
Last weekend, my S was on a trip with his friend. When he got back on Saturday, he kept trying to call and text his mom. Then he came crying to me because she turned the phone off on him. He knows that when it goes straight to voice mail it is off - it was going to VM on the previous calls. He asked me why she did that and won't even text him back. I lied and said I don't know, her phone battery probably died. Oddly enough, that is the excuse she gave him when she got home eventually. Her lies worked when he was 6. Now that he turned 11, they don't work so well anymore.
TB, I said something very similar to mine once I was done and we laid out our separation agreement. Basically told her I'm sorry she couldn't appreciate what she had and it hurts, but I am working on me now and I know I will be just fine....hope she figures herself out and has no regrets because she is on her own path without me! She teared up as well and said she wants me to be happy and she knows she is going to regret everything! Funny how they "know" that but still keep on keepin' on......morons!
You would be surprised just how observant and aware kids are at that age. My D11 could see how the X was treating me and not only asked me why, but made it a point to hug me more often and tell me she loved me. D11 and I have gotten a lot closer during all this; she even busted the X out one night during dinner....."everyone knows YOU'RE the problem and unhappy around here....why don't you leave us all alone!" What could I say...I just looked at X and shrugged my shoulders!
As far as the topic of this discussion, I know mine isn't happy and none of the EA / relationships she tried before and after we split has really panned out. She is hitting the wall! Got blindsided listening to an "oh woe is me" rant from her recently........Her boyfriend right after I moved out basically dumped her; his career is his focus and he can't afford to let anyone get close to him (he is Army Spec Ops).....she's been on approx 15 dates through Tinder; "everyone" lies on there profile and none of them will call her back! I just sat and listened and when she was done I just said "sorry things aren't working out for you.....well, gotta run" and got in my car and left!
The grass isn't greener on the other side.....in fact, it seems to be $h!te brown!
Obo
-
Sounds like a happy ending to me.
-
Obo and twiceburnt,
The sad thing is once you get yourselves together and really get on with your new lives they'll probably want you back. :-\
-
I said, "You know what, you might be destroying me financially, absolutely obliterated me emotionally, but you haven't killed me. In a few years after I've rebuilt my life, I'll be better than ever and happier than ever. You'll be lonely and just as miserable as you are now."
For the first time since BD #2 in May, she started to cry. I saw some shame and sadness in her eyes for once instead of anger, and she replied, "You're probably right, and I'll be happy for you".
Jaw drop! I swear that is the sickest thing I think I have read...How in the WORLD do you KNOW what you are losing, and AGREE that your spouse is right, yet continue down the destructive path anyway? HOW???
MLC=CRAZY
-Terrified
-
Obo and twiceburnt,
The sad thing is once you get yourselves together and really get on with your new lives they'll probably want you back. :-\
Thunder, you are probably right, and I will have two words for her at that time: "tough" and "$h!te".....in that order!
Obo
-
I said, "You know what, you might be destroying me financially, absolutely obliterated me emotionally, but you haven't killed me. In a few years after I've rebuilt my life, I'll be better than ever and happier than ever. You'll be lonely and just as miserable as you are now."
For the first time since BD #2 in May, she started to cry. I saw some shame and sadness in her eyes for once instead of anger, and she replied, "You're probably right, and I'll be happy for you".
Jaw drop! I swear that is the sickest thing I think I have read...How in the WORLD do you KNOW what you are losing, and AGREE that your spouse is right, yet continue down the destructive path anyway? HOW???
MLC=CRAZY
-Terrified
Well, she did say "probably right", so she didn't completely agree. :-\ Maybe it was just her way to put an end to our discussion. She said some other crap before that like "I'm not doing this to hurt you." Just dumb stuff to justify what she's doing and to hide the guilt.
-
So I got BD mid April 2013. I had to deal with escape and avoid from mid April to early June 2013. Our wedding anniversary was June 10th. The weekend before, he went away for the weekend with his OW. That Sunday night, the night before our anniversary, he comes back from his weekend getaway and shows up at our house and starts an argument. He ends up breaking my nose. It's funny, in a non-romantic way, I got to spend my wedding anniversary with him. That next day was our anniversary and he was in a prison uniform and shackles and I was in the courtroom with my nose bandaged. Best anniversary EVER!, lol You have all heard this story a thousand times from me. I'm getting to my point here shortly. I immediately got a restraining order. So, he was forced to be a vanisher, I will never know if he was a clinging boomerang or not. So, I pretty much have had peace and quiet, and never had to see him again, since that day, other than when we had to go to court. So I got less than 2 months of monstering total. Is he monstering at the OW? His family? People at work? I have no way of knowing. Somebody's getting it. He is so early on in this, he must be having issues and depression? He married the OW last weekend. I wonder when the mask comes off and she gets the brunt of his issues? Seriously, I am getting nothing from him because I have a 5 year restraining order. So with him, in such a horrible crisis, the OW at some point is going to have to deal with all of his issues. It is inevitable, right? I mean, she's the wife now. I'm outta the picture, man. If he is still miserable, won't he blame his spouse at some point? Isn't his new spouse supposed to make everything all better and rosy? Or now that he is rid of me, life is a bowl of cherries for him? This OW, she is a demanding b!tc# who sees no ones point of view but her own. I've done my research on her, and she thinks the world revolves around her. Isn't that attitude a breeding ground for fighting? I read all these forums and all the RCR articles and I just can't help but wonder, who is he lashing out at now? Who is he blaming? Crisis can take 2-7 years on average. I got less than 2 months of it. Who is going to get the remainder? I really hope the OW gets it in full force. She wanted him so bad, tells everyone he is her dream come true. Ha! Better watch out what you wish for....
-
Oj,
When he said that I about choked on my coffee!! It's true tho. Only when the thrill wears off is when they have major doubts,and think " ohh sh*t, I'm screwed"
Or the one I like,is when he shows someone a pic of OW,and they are either speechless,or say WTF,are you joking?!!!!
Alll kidding aside,it does suck that they take everything away when they go,they ruin us financially, and them too. But there too wrapped up in thier insanity to give a $h!te.
And the abandoning the kids is a mystery,although mine are grown. It still hurts them like hell to see there daddy dissappeared.and this alien walking around in his body :-\
-
I said, "You know what, you might be destroying me financially, absolutely obliterated me emotionally, but you haven't killed me. In a few years after I've rebuilt my life, I'll be better than ever and happier than ever. You'll be lonely and just as miserable as you are now."
For the first time since BD #2 in May, she started to cry. I saw some shame and sadness in her eyes for once instead of anger, and she replied, "You're probably right, and I'll be happy for you".
Jaw drop! I swear that is the sickest thing I think I have read...How in the WORLD do you KNOW what you are losing, and AGREE that your spouse is right, yet continue down the destructive path anyway? HOW???
MLC=CRAZY
-Terrified
TiT, is to doesn't seem to be that uncommon for them to know and admit to basically throwing us away. Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better, that he hasn't been a very good husband, etc., etc. You have to look at it as them showing their guilt and believing that they deserve something lesser than us. And that makes sense: as they are working through whatever their issues are, they need their "drug" and it has to be something that helps them crash to their bottom. I don't think they could do this if they had a OP who had morals and refused to be with a married person. As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.
They really can't seem to help what their doing. I was fortunate enough to have one that is very self-reflective. He truly wanted to stop. Truly. He tried as much as he could, but he just couldn't stop it. I am convinced, now, that he had to become as cruel as he was to me in order to force me to ask him to move out. He wanted to do it but couldn't pull the trigger. He was stuc, in his tunnel for a long time, just as I was stuck in my hurt and obsession. Regardless, they cannot seem to stop themselves until they totally crash and hit bottom because they have to deal with their demons. Another reason we just have to look to ourselves and.
I've said to many people many times, you can't look at anything connected to MLC with logic because there is no logic.
-
Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better... As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.
They really can't seem to help what their doing. I was fortunate enough to have one that is very self-reflective. He truly wanted to stop. Truly. He tried as much as he could, but he just couldn't stop it. I am convinced, now, that he had to become as cruel as he was to me in order to force me to ask him to move out. He wanted to do it but couldn't pull the trigger. He was stuc, in his tunnel for a long time, just as I was stuck in my hurt and obsession. Regardless, they cannot seem to stop themselves until they totally crash and hit bottom because they have to deal with their demons. Another reason we just have to look to ourselves and.
I've said to many people many times, you can't look at anything connected to MLC with logic because there is no logic.
Thanks for that. Mine too has said that I deserve better. I thought she was just trying to get me to move on with my life so she could "have fun". I did not really think to take that comment with sincerity. I believe my wife has been in MLC for YEARS. It wasn't until this young guy payed her some attention that she really "woke up" (bomb drop). But in hindsight she was scared to take that leap into "Replay". When I gave her the ultimatum to break contact with OM or leave, now I see that was the green light she was waiting for.
As a logical thinker, and I know there is no logic in MLC, I still cannot FATHOM HOW you can not see the obvious bad choices that you are making. Then again, my own little MLC in 2009, I guess I can see how it all goes out the window with infatuation.
Oddly enough I keep saying I had a "mini MLC", but now I am starting to wonder if I started an attempt at high energy replay with old flame, that didn't pan out, so I turned into a low energy wallower. That could explain the stagnation on my part in my marriage that triggered w's MLC...Never really thought about that before. If that is the case, my MLC lasted way longer than I thought. If that really is true, then the start of her replay brought me out of wallowing because I have made some serious improvements "in myself". I am MUCH more involved with my kids, have opened up to people at work (I NEVER spoke of my personal life with ANYONE in 17 years I worked there), and found myself not being quite as shy as I used to be. I don't know, maybe my changes are just the result of w's replay, but I actually feel better than I have in a long time. I know I will still cycle down at times though.
-Terrified
-
My H told me today after I asked him if we was going to go with me to surgery. He said, you said you didn't want me to go. Me- I said are you going to go with me when I have surgery? He said, well here's my delinma, I don't want to make any life or death decisions if a fluk should happen because everyone will blame me. Me - So, again this is all about you?
Mean while he spent all summer helping his EA through her holistic treatment and being her knight in shinning armor.
So, looks like it's too much to ask of my husband who is a physican to be with me even though divorce proceeding has started.
-
Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better... As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.
They really can't seem to help what their doing. I was fortunate enough to have one that is very self-reflective. He truly wanted to stop. Truly. He tried as much as he could, but he just couldn't stop it. I am convinced, now, that he had to become as cruel as he was to me in order to force me to ask him to move out. He wanted to do it but couldn't pull the trigger. He was stuc, in his tunnel for a long time, just as I was stuck in my hurt and obsession. Regardless, they cannot seem to stop themselves until they totally crash and hit bottom because they have to deal with their demons. Another reason we just have to look to ourselves and.
I've said to many people many times, you can't look at anything connected to MLC with logic because there is no logic.
Thanks for that. Mine too has said that I deserve better. I thought she was just trying to get me to move on with my life so she could "have fun". I did not really think to take that comment with sincerity. I believe my wife has been in MLC for YEARS.
The first thing mine said to me at BD was that I deserved better. That he created sh#t everywhere he went. My first thought was well, don't you think OW deserves better? I didn't know about MLC and affair down then. Now I understand he didn't care what she deserved and still doesn't. It's all about him. In hindsight mine was in some sort of crisis for a long time and he knew something was wrong. He was slowly spiraling down but he didn't have the tools to do anything about it.
iT, is to doesn't seem to be that uncommon for them to know and admit to basically throwing us away. Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better, that he hasn't been a very good husband, etc., etc. You have to look at it as them showing their guilt and believing that they deserve something lesser than us. And that makes sense: as they are working through whatever their issues are, they need their "drug" and it has to be something that helps them crash to their bottom. I don't think they could do this if they had a OP who had morals and refused to be with a married person. As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.
I think once they're in crisis they have only one choice, and that's forward, and they have to go all the way through it till they hopefully hit rock bottom. The OP seems to be in almost all cases a necessary part of this process. Someone on the forum once said they don't look for people better than us, they look for people worse than themselves and I truly believe that.
-
The OP seems to be in almost all cases a necessary part of this process. Someone on the forum once said they don't look for people better than us, they look for people worse than themselves and I truly believe that.
The OP seems to be normal, but let's not generalize about who they are.
They are (obviously) people who have no scruples about getting involved with a married person, but some of them genuinely believe that their affair partner is unhappy in his/her marriage. Sometimes it is true.
OP (old pilot) commented on my thread 4 years ago that my H and the OW were getting their needs met through the R (in this case an EA) and there was nothing I could do except let it run its course. I thought I knew better, but now I see that by demanding it to end, I was pushing them together (just as old pilot had warned me).
The point is, they both had needs. Emotional needs, in my H's case. The OW was similar to him in many respects (though I don't like to think this). She was a perfectionist workaholic doctor like him, with difficulties in intimate relationships. She was callous and manipulative though, and totally lacking in empathy for those she walked over. But hardly a classic affair down. Pretty, petite, clever, successful. And young. Half my age.
But she wasn't me, she didn't make demands on him (the fact that it was an EA meant that there was space for both). She acted like his friend, while making no commitments. My H was the one who was totally hooked on her.
They don't look for one type of person. They look for a person who seems to meet their needs, when they cannot look to us for that (and that may have nothing to do with us, but their own difficulties with life). Sometimes its trailer trash, sometimes not.
-
I agree with Mermaid. Demanding that it end pushes them together. I have since learned that when I found out who the OW was, she backed away and told him to work on his marriage, although she left the option open for his return to her. H came towards me - largely, I think, b/c H didn't want to end up alone. But there was something about my knowing who OW was that changed H's behavior - H at least expressed remorse and despair at his A. However, H was still enmeshed with OW emotionally and when I found out, I lost my temper, and OW looked a lot more dignified in H's eyes. So here we are - I am preparing for D.
I thought that my H had a "type," but the OW is the opposite of that. She looks somewhat like a younger version of his mother, although she is not particularly young. She does work, but has financial problems. She absolutely met my H's needs by telling him he was fabulous.
-
But hardly a classic affair down. Pretty, petite, clever, successful. And young. Half my age.
This does not mean she was not an "affair down".
with difficulties in intimate relationships. She was callous and manipulative though, and totally lacking in empathy for those she walked over.
This does.
-
Thinking about affair down...for me, anyone who would knowingly be in a relationship with a married person is affair down. Anyone who has so little self-respect as to become an OP is affair down.
That said, the OP only knows what the MLCer tells them, so of course they believe their lover is unhappy in his/her marriage. The MLCer is unhappy and blames the marriage. Its normal affair-speak (MLC or not). I have little doubt that the OP believes the LBS to be a horrible, vile individual because that's what they are told. But do they ever ask, if you were so miserable being married to this person why did you stay in the marriage for so long? I'm guessing not. If they have deep conversations, there are likely a lot of lies involved because the MLCer doesn't want the OP to see the "real" them.
-
I agree that there is also an affair down in terms of character.
-
I agree Medusa. My h's ow knew he was married. I'm sure the affair was in full swing before he ever bd'd me. No matter what terrible things he said about me, the answer from her should have been, "If your so miserable why are you still married? And until you are divorced I am not interested."
So I think very little of these affair partners whose excuse is that they were told how horrible we are, and how miserable their our h's are in the marriage so that should make it all ok. NO. But it does clearly show these people have little care or concern for anyone other than themselves. They themselves are obviously broken people who have no control over themselves, possibly why they are so controlling to our spouses, who of course, eat that up because they don't even know what day of the week it is half the time. Or the opposite and they want to be controlled and our spouses feel powerful.
Either way, it's not a lasting recipe for the most part. And even though the ow owes me nothing, didn't make a commitment to me, I dislike her as much as I do my h. To me she is an ugly troll, nothing more.
-
That said, the OP only knows what the MLCer tells them, so of course they believe their lover is unhappy in his/her marriage. The MLCer is unhappy and blames the marriage.
I may be naive or in denial, but in my Ws case I don't think she initially thought the marriage was the problem. I know before the A began my W was seriously depressed and she didn't know why. We talked about it and that is what she told me. And based on what I know about the OM, who another member of the board said sounded like "true pond scum affair down", I believe the OM is a predator who realized W was vulnerable and convinced her the marriage was the problem and he was the solution.
I don't believe this is true in all cases but I believe in some cases the MLCer may be going through a difficult midlife transition and there are enough sick people out there that one of them gets ahold of them and turns it into a full blown crisis.
-
Well, if it makes anybody feel better, I have a recent karma story for you. When I was on PathPartners a few years ago, there was a woman who used to post and help us out. Her brother's W was going through an MLC. He didn't post, but she did.
Anyways, she emailed me recently. Her brother's W divorced him and married OM a few years ago. Her brother is doing fine now and has moved on. Meanwhile, his ex-W just kicked OM out of the house because OM started having an affair on her. :P She thinks her brother's ex-W will probably forgive OM and let him return though. But I wonder how long that will last. Another affair will happen again, or he'll continue on with this one behind her back I'm sure.
So yeah, the OM/OW aren't the "catch" our MLCers make them out to be. And it doesn't sound like the MLCer's new life is all that wonderful.
-
That said, the OP only knows what the MLCer tells them, so of course they believe their lover is unhappy in his/her marriage. The MLCer is unhappy and blames the marriage.
I may be naive or in denial, but in my Ws case I don't think she initially thought the marriage was the problem. I know before the A began my W was seriously depressed and she didn't know why. We talked about it and that is what she told me. And based on what I know about the OM, who another member of the board said sounded like "true pond scum affair down", I believe the OM is a predator who realized W was vulnerable and convinced her the marriage was the problem and he was the solution.
I don't believe this is true in all cases but I believe in some cases the MLCer may be going through a difficult midlife transition and there are enough sick people out there that one of them gets ahold of them and turns it into a full blown crisis.
My H has never said that the marriage had problems. He decided one day that he was going to have 2 relationships - one with me and one with OW :o (this was my BD) and he ultimately wanted to have us both together as one big happy family! Who knows what he told the OW but she was completely aware of me and still pursued (going on 2 years).
Now I am not saying that this kind of lifestyle choice is wrong but it is wrong for me and the fact that H never discussed this with me shows that he knew it was wrong. He viewed me as an extension of himself to do with as he pleased :o
-
I am a friend on the OW's FB page. She is an idiot she does not even know it is me. She does not post much but I check in now and then. She just married my Ex husband last weekend, 8 months after our divorce. She should be enjoying her new married life to my ex husband who she thinks she "won". Instead, she posts, this saying that is obviously meant for her ex husband. All it told me was that her ex husband is on her mind. I copied it and emailed it to her ex husband, who I am friends with, since the affair began between my husband(now ex) and the OW. Here is what she posted: She moved on and I feel sorry for you because she overlooked your flaws, your temper, your selfishness, your inability to love anyone but yourself. She could have anyone in the world but she still chose you every time. All you are now is a crease in her past, a scar on her chest, a memory that fades faster then the photograph of you under her mattress. Maybe now she will find someone who loves her instead of someone who sucks the life out of her, never satisfied, even with her beating heart in his greedy hands. What a nutjob! She divorced her husband 7 years ago and yet still lived with him because he loved her and di not want the divorce but she needed money and a place to stay. She was still sleeping with her ex husband while she was having an affair with mine. When she told her ex that she was in love with my husband he begged her to stay. And she writes this saying like HE was the monster? HA! She is nuts and I am confident she is going to tear my husband into bits. Oh, ex husband of mine, you have a storm brewing on the horizon.....
-
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5632.0
Ok, I couldn't link it from my IPAD but I did get it going. I will link it later if someone else doesn't
My thread got locked before I could move the thread here. LOL!
-
I am a friend on the OW's FB page. She is an idiot she does not even know it is me. She does not post much but I check in now and then. She just married my Ex husband last weekend, 8 months after our divorce. She should be enjoying her new married life to my ex husband who she thinks she "won". Instead, she posts, this saying that is obviously meant for her ex husband. All it told me was that her ex husband is on her mind. I copied it and emailed it to her ex husband, who I am friends with, since the affair began between my husband(now ex) and the OW. Here is what she posted: She moved on and I feel sorry for you because she overlooked your flaws, your temper, your selfishness, your inability to love anyone but yourself. She could have anyone in the world but she still chose you every time. All you are now is a crease in her past, a scar on her chest, a memory that fades faster then the photograph of you under her mattress. Maybe now she will find someone who loves her instead of someone who sucks the life out of her, never satisfied, even with her beating heart in his greedy hands. What a nutjob! She divorced her husband 7 years ago and yet still lived with him because he loved her and di not want the divorce but she needed money and a place to stay. She was still sleeping with her ex husband while she was having an affair with mine. When she told her ex that she was in love with my husband he begged her to stay. And she writes this saying like HE was the monster? HA! She is nuts and I am confident she is going to tear my husband into bits. Oh, ex husband of mine, you have a storm brewing on the horizon.....
ReplyQuoteNotify
-
Chaos pure chaos going on there.
-
Thanks for posting that again here!
I wrote on the other thread
Chaos pure Chaos here!
-
Sorry everyone, this discussion when moved got messed up. Not sure how that happen but now I can't seem to fix my own discussion and it's seems to have moved from the discussion area. I think I've been hijacked. LOL
-
Just to clarify.
I split the original topic at post 160 and created a new thread at the same time that UL started her new thread. We both named it OM/OW 2 or rather II and they both ended up going onto the community list at the same.
I then merged UL's second thread with the split one so the new thread no II starts from the previous topic post.
This has now gone back to a story thread.
I have now locked and linked the previous thread to this one.
-
Songandance,
This isn't a story thread. It was a discussion. It's not my story. Also, the original thread topic isn't in the thread so I will try and look for that. It would have been nice to start this discussion thread out with the original thread. OK, I moved it back to discussion. If you don't want it there let me know and I will move it back but it was never my story.
Well, I guess I can't move it ito discussion. LOL! This is so messed up! Too funny so sad!
-
The title basically says what this thread is about.
Yes, we all know that we should be focusing on ourselves. In the real world, I never ever discuss "the girl" to anybody. For me, I use this forum to vent my inner feelings and give/receive advise from all the other brilliant, understanding LBSers on this forum. It really is a lifesaver. So, yes, only to you very awesome cyber people can I let go of my deepest feelings. It's better than a counselor b/c honestly I just don't trust the average counselor.
So the alienator...is she really the affair down that we all want her to be or is she somehow what he was always looking for?? I know what you are all going to say. Of course she cannot hold a candle to me. Yes, logically I can understand that she is nothing. BUT he did leave me and he is right now at this very moment with her, touching her, sleeping with her, by choice.
So, that's why this thread is growing so fast... we know logically that she is nothing. I just want to hear it again and again and again. :-\
-
Yeah, it's all interesting and I'm on your wagon Nah. I really want to believe she's a affair down. LOL! Again, again and again.
-
Watch out people.
It's nearly time to take out the 2x4 again.
-
LOL That's funny!
-
This has been copied from my fourth thread.....
Some of you might be interested in this – it is extracts from a letter that OW sent me three weeks after BD…. Fascinating insight into the mind of an affair down BPD or what.
“Dear ..
I realise that a lot has been said and written (meaning she has read H’s letter to me)
And I felt that it was time that I should write things from my perspective. You are under no obligation to read it but I wanted…. to cover the points in a rational manner and in a way that you could digest them at a pace you are happy with.
I would first of all like to say that I never set out to have any feelings for H ….but I am unable to ignore the force that has put us together and forged a union that has taken me completely by surprise.
I did not set out to hurt anybody and have not asked anything of H that he has not willingly given… I will support him in the situation that he needs to be in to be able to be at peace with himself whether that is with me or you………(long info about her finance and current H and her medical issues…)
……Family is one of the most important things to me and I am always the one to provide, my H and I agreed early on that we would not stay together for the sake of the children and I believe that you should stay in a marriage because you want to be with the other person…….you have to be someone that the other person wants to be with… it is not an automatic right because you have made vows…
I have always been quite private and found attention difficult……. In your H I have found someone where I am completely able to be myself…. He brings out the best in me and we are very positive together….. As much as it hurts me for my family to be broken like this…..
(she then expands on how “private” she is….and how she is leaving her H because he doesn’t want to join her “journey” of self discovery)
He is aware that his decision is a major flaw…. As much as he may wish to be he is not the right companion for me at this stage…I very much hope that I can continue my journey with H(mine)
I do not want you to think that I have taken these steps lightly or without a lot of soul searching… It is inevitable that people will be hurt but is it right (now paraphrasing because her sentence is far too long) for l one to sacrifice his (ie my H) happiness simply out of duty – it is very selfish of the other (ie ME S&D) to expect that.
If you would like to meet to discuss this then I am happy to do so.. I’m sorry if you feel that I have intruded but I am a helpful person and care deeply for others often to my own detriment.
I do not ask anything for me…..but I do ask this for H as it is tearing him apart and I will support him with whatever he needs.
That helped me stop obsessing pretty quickly and now the OW is still on the scene but nowhere near as frequent and H regularly turns her calls off when he is here. Time, time time .....patience, patience, patience -
-
sounds like what my h's ow said to me.
-
My husbands girl is scared to death of me. She wouldn't dear send me a letter or ever try to speak to me. I can't imagine what that must be like.
-
my h's ow i was told was terrified of me, she is pretty much. i ran into her when h tried to move home a few weeks ago and i had to watch his stuff for him so she wouldn't destroy it. plus he wanted a witness because she is violent to him. the next day when we went to go get his bed she was calmer and said pretty much the same things that are in sd's letter.
since then she has contacted me once via h's phone because he was texting me and she was getting mad about it and was telling him to say things to me so he said say them to her yourself and made her do it. that was fun ::) i swear she is the most boring person to talk to and she kept trying to fight with me and i kept shutting her down. told h to never do that again because she bores the hell out of me and i am not giving her what she wants so its all pointless. she tried to do it again one more time and he told her no, you bore her and she says you aren't worth her time.
since then she has done nothing but bad mouth me and start fights with him about me.
-
I had one email exchange with my XWs OM. He told me that she told him our decision to divorce was mutual and that he had no idea that I didn't want it otherwise he wouldn't have gotten involved.
My response was well, now you know that she lied to you, and good luck dealing with her...she's your problem now.
I have no idea if they are happy or not. I have no way of knowing and will not ask her, she'd just lie anyway. I secretly hope they discover eachothers true colors and it fails. But I try not to think or worry about that. She told me, "he's the best thing she could have ever hoped to find in her lifetime." I wonder if that's still true, if the grass still looks greener. Regardless I'm confident she threw away a good man and a great family for something that she thought would mKe her happy. Time will tell.
Honestly it'd be easier if she moved on to OM #2, I will never be able to view OM#1 as anything but the dude who moved in and took advantage of our marriage crisis. That's the benchmark I use to judge his character. What bothers me most is that he is a part of my kids lives.
-
My H says the OW is "innocent" b/c he "asked her out" by saying that he would be getting divorced, but hadn't yet b/c I was ill. To me, that implies that I was not on board with the D.
After 2 years and no D, OW knew I was not "ill." So someone anonymously tipped me to the A. Do OW's strong feelings for H make a difference?
That said, H wants to be a guest star in his relationships, and OW plays to that. She lives in another country, and when she sees H, it's all fun and celebration of H. She's led him to think she has self-respect even while she supposedly lets him make the decisions. She's certainly played her cards better than I have. She makes H happy and I don't, mainly b/c of the way he has treated me. I suppose I can understand why he wants to start over elsewhere.
-
.. we know logically that she is nothing. I just want to hear it again and again and again. :-\
I have a great counselor; he told me I was the healthiest person he's ever had in his office 8) . I got to the point I only went to process some anxiety provoking interaction with H, but I was almost willing to pay his very hefty fee just to continue hearing him tell me that H's "new R" will "fly to pieces", "the odds are like winning the lottery, this thing can make it" & many other variations.
I try to process with my GF's now & keep telling myself that H's "new R" is headed to hell in a handbasket. Can't get there fast enough for me.
-
I was almost willing to pay his very hefty fee just to continue hearing him tell me that H's "new R" will "fly to pieces", "the odds are like winning the lottery, this thing can make it" & many other variations.
I try to process with my GF's now & keep telling myself that H's "new R" is headed to hell in a handbasket. Can't get there fast enough for me.
HT-- we are close to the same timeline, you are about 3 months longer than me. The first six months EVERYBODY said over and over that their relationship won't last. Now??... Nope very very few agree he will come back. Even my friend who left her family and came back two years later, pretty much just yesterday implied that I should just give it up. This is the only place that I still vent, and share the fact that I believe at some point he will try to come back. This is the only place where people will agree with me. Why is that?
-
This place is a great place to get encouragement and I think people just want to be an encouragement to everyone. But, also, everyone here gets what's going on in a MLCer's mind and I think that is why everyone understand you here and not outside of this place. Your H or my H may not come back to us but we have nothing to lose in understand what they are going through and holding out in hopes they will work through their MLC. At some point I'm hoping that my H will understand I wasn't all his brain was telling him I was during this time.
-
HT-- we are close to the same timeline, you are about 3 months longer than me. The first six months EVERYBODY said over and over that their relationship won't last. Now??... Nope very very few agree he will come back. Even my friend who left her family and came back two years later, pretty much just yesterday implied that I should just give it up. This is the only place that I still vent, and share the fact that I believe at some point he will try to come back. This is the only place where people will agree with me. Why is that?
Most people don't understand MLC. They see our spouses having a "typical" affair that runs its course much quicker. So after a couple of years, they think anyone who believes a wayward spouse may try to come back is delusional.
I'm like you in that this is the only place I discuss MLC anymore. I don't know if mine will try to come back, and if he does, I don't think I will take him, anyway. For me its no longer about him coming back. It's about me rebuilding myself, and only those who have been through this devastation and insanity that MLC brings into our life can understand.
At some point I'm hoping that my H will understand I wasn't all his brain was telling him I was during this time.
UL, he may know it on some level. I think we all need to remember that there are two personalities within the MLCer: the Monster and the Prisoner. Prisoner knows what he's doing is wrong, but Monster is stronger and takes over. That's what makes these situation so confusing and difficult. Heck, mine told me after BD that I wasn't really all that bad...and then a few days later gave me his pathetic excuses for having an affair (I walk like my dad and look like my sister and he just can't stand it). He blames me for many things, some of which I actually deserve, but I learned last night from D22 that he's never said anything negative about me to her. That says a lot to me since I do think mine may be starting to look at himself and take responsibility for what he's done to his life.
-
My counselor has told me the same thing about the relationship with OW but I'm starting to doubt it. With H pursuing a divorce I just feel like a fool for holding out hope for a reconciliation. It hurts so much to know he is moving on with her and will be a playing house with her kids when our 2 babies died and I gave up the chance to have children of our own. How can he disregard everything we had and all I was willing to do for him because I believed in us. I have been ripped open by this man and I still love him. Who's the one in crisis?
-
My H OW was in a six year affair before I found out. He left me last year doe a month to be with her then came home. She kept ringing him and texting and it started again. When I found out he left me about a month later for her.
He has been gone two weeks and she made the appt for the Lawyers a few days after he moved in. She pulls his strings,
He said today if I had never found out about the affair he would. Ever have left me for her.
She's been divorced twice and is older than him by six years and thinks only of herself. He told me she is selfish and doesn't look after him like I do but he is hooked on her.
I pray she shows her true colours and he realises he is throwing away a M of 33 years.
-
I pray she shows her true colours and he realises he is throwing away a M of 33 years.
She will eventually. In fact she sounds like she already is, but as long as he hasn't "lost" you, he won't see it. And he might not until you are divorced unfortunately. Then he gets to deal with her all on his own, and it will be ugly.
In my first bout of this, I absolutely, positively knew she'd be back one day. I didn't expect it so soon (2.5 years), but I just knew it. And I was right. Now, I'm not so sure, but then again, I'm not sure I would want her back again. I was able to get over it the first time by thinking it was a crisis and she wasn't herself. Now, I'm starting to wonder if this is her self, and I'd have to walk on egg shells the rest of my life to keep from MLC triggering again. But, like many have said, she didn't finish her crisis the first time, so who knows.
-
Hi Twiceburnt
I think that even if he came home she would always be there ringing him up and the affair and deceit would start again.
I think they get off on all the deceit and their grubby little plans. I wonder if now that it's in the open and he has moved in if some of the excitement will abate.
I worry though that the divorce will go through and although my H has said he will not want to marry for about a year if she will not have him dragged up that Aisle far quicker. I think then he would find out what she is really like.
He has been used to only ever being taken care of by a Woman. First his Mothwr did absolutely everything for him including crawling under the bed to retrieve his socks and then me. He works incredibly hard and has been a very good provider but in the home he is totally lazy. He would rise from the dinner table and just leave his plate behind.
This OW doesn't do much for him apart from Cook,his dinner. Meh has to help her with chores and he says oh it is because she works but she only works part-time. He said she cannot get any more hours, so how come when I used to,work before I had my health issues he never expected to help me round the home.
I think one day he will look at her and think I gave up my wife of 33 years for this and will regret it.
Also I,wonder how long it will be until he starts being messy and lazy round her home and then the arguments will start. Although she is one devious old witch and will wait until the ring is on her finger first though. It makes me sick how she has schemed and connived to steal my H and ruin my life. She's evil.
-
I was almost willing to pay his very hefty fee just to continue hearing him tell me that H's "new R" will "fly to pieces", "the odds are like winning the lottery, this thing can make it" & many other variations.
I try to process with my GF's now & keep telling myself that H's "new R" is headed to hell in a handbasket. Can't get there fast enough for me.
HT-- we are close to the same timeline, you are about 3 months longer than me. The first six months EVERYBODY said over and over that their relationship won't last. Now??... Nope very very few agree he will come back. Even my friend who left her family and came back two years later, pretty much just yesterday implied that I should just give it up. This is the only place that I still vent, and share the fact that I believe at some point he will try to come back. This is the only place where people will agree with me. Why is that?
Because most people don't wait long enough before moving on.
-
I think that even if he came home she would always be there ringing him up and the affair and deceit would start again.
Well, in that case, he wouldn't be out of his crisis yet (not that mine was either, but she was completely over OM at that point). When I took my W back the first time, OM1 tried to text her here and there. She let me know every time and showed me his texts, and her responses. She blocked his number through our cell phone provider also. She pretty much despised him at that point though.
He will eventually get tired of her and he better hope and pray you haven't moved on by that point.
-
I was almost willing to pay his very hefty fee just to continue hearing him tell me that H's "new R" will "fly to pieces", "the odds are like winning the lottery, this thing can make it" & many other variations.
I try to process with my GF's now & keep telling myself that H's "new R" is headed to hell in a handbasket. Can't get there fast enough for me.
HT-- we are close to the same timeline, you are about 3 months longer than me. The first six months EVERYBODY said over and over that their relationship won't last. Now??... Nope very very few agree he will come back. Even my friend who left her family and came back two years later, pretty much just yesterday implied that I should just give it up. This is the only place that I still vent, and share the fact that I believe at some point he will try to come back. This is the only place where people will agree with me. Why is that?
Because most people don't wait long enough before moving on.
I agree with MeNow. I doesn't take much for a LBS to move on after 5-7 years. We aren't getting any younger. And we are good people who typically get snatched up pretty quickly afterwards. So the MLCer often doesn't get a second chance. Men tend to stay in this longer than women also it seems.
-
I have been ripped open by this man and I still love him. Who's the one in crisis?
Their crisis triggers a crisis for us. The enormous difference, though, is that we aren't as crazy as them and we are smart enough to get ourselves help to get through this. About 3 days after BD, when I picked myself off the floor for the first time, I made my first therapy appointment because I knew I couldn't do this without help. I knew I had to look to myself. Initially it was because I believed him when he told me all the reasons for him having an affair (and they were pretty stupid) but within a few months, I was moving past that. More than a year later, I don't recognize the woman I used to be. I have taken the enormous love I felt for him and tucked it away in my heart. It will always be there, and on very rare occasions, I let it out and cherish it. I liken it to getting over whomever our first love was. The difference is that we've had long marriages, so moving past the pain is harder.
I pray she shows her true colours and he realises he is throwing away a M of 33 years.
HMT, have you ever considered that she may be showing her true colors but he refuses to see them? They are delusional about these relationships. For instance, the OW in my life broke up with him because he was spending too much time with his wife--right after my mother died unexpectedly. If that doesn't scream selfishness, I don't know what does. I pointed this out to him, and he insisted "it isn't like that". I called BS. I had also pointed out that her self-esteem couldn't be much because she was willing to sleep with a married man and his insistence that "everyone" loved her was a load since his BF had already told me he couldn't stand her. All I got on that one was stony silence. The thing is they see exactly what they want to see. Just like they need to vilify us. They need to raise the OP onto a pedestal. How else can they continue their bad behavior? Also, they don't seem to care what they throw away. It's all about what they want and need right now . They are like children in that respect.
Also I,wonder how long it will be until he starts being messy and lazy round her home and then the arguments will start. Although she is one devious old witch and will wait until the ring is on her finger first though. It makes me sick how she has schemed and connived to steal my H and ruin my life. She's evil.
This may well be the case, but do you really know? From my perspective, you're giving her a lot of power over you. She didn't ruin your life: she may have pursued your H, but he is the one who bit. Remember, of he had not been in MLC, he would have said no. And if she hadn't come along when she did, he'd have found someone else. She is a selfish, broken person. Nothing more. She isn't worth your head space.
We know that in most cases these affair do run their course, even though they are long. For us, because we are the logical ones, they seem to last forever. They take as long as they need to take.
HMT, I sense bitterness in you. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I want to mention it because I think we all have to be cautious of that. I recognized in myself right around the year mark that I was becoming brittle. I wanted to ruin OW at the time even though I knew she was just the right person at the right time. For a few months, I kept hearing a line from "French Kiss" she could not steal that which did not want to be stolen". It is so true. We need to direct our pain and anger somewhere, but for some reason we seem to want to absolve our spouses of their bad decisions. Guess what: even with MLC, they are sentient beings and are responsible for their choices. Look to your emotions of you can and ask yourself why you need to give her so much responsibility for his decisions.
-
Hi Medusa
To be honest with you I am bitter. If that is a personality fault in me then that is the way,it is. Maybe in time it will fade. I can only hope so. But she did pursue him relentlessly when he finished with her and I do see her as a morally bankrupt selfish individual.
The reason why we hate the OW and not our H is because we have love for our H. I know he has a character fault. I also think you are right in thatif it hadn't been this old who're then it would have been some other ow who he would have got with.
If I could brainwash him to stop being a womaniser then he would have been the perfect H. He was never aggressive with me or mean and he was very easy to live with but he had that major fault. ,in the past I don't think the OW meant anything to him but he thinks he is,in love with,this one.
I feel bitter because I am 56 years old and have been with this Man for 36 years. I wanted to grow old with him, like we all did with our Partners on here. I have lost my Husband and will loose my home that I love so much so yes I am bitter. Like I say maybe in time it will fade but I make no apologies for it now.
-
No apologies needed, HMT. We feel what we feel for a reason. I just brought it up because I recognized in myself that the bitterness that was seeping in was hindering my happiness.
I bear no hatred for OW, now. She is what she is,and even though she pursued him, he could have said no. She wants to screw around with a married man, it's her problem. As weird as it may sound, I actually thank both of them for their affair because it has, ultimately, been positive for me. They are no longer important to my life.
By the way, for quite awhile I came close to hating him. I wanted to scratch his eyes out for what he'd done to me and my kids. For me it was important not to let him off the hook for his decisions, even though I logically know he is MLC. Its a reason for his behavior but not an excuse.
Finally, I don't care one iota if he loves her or not. He says he does and that's his reality. It's not a reflection of me, its a reflection of him.
-
Anger is a step in the grieving process and it does keep us motivated at first when not much else can get us up off of the floor. It is just good to be aware of that and not get stuck from moving on to the next stage because eventually it turns on us and keeps us a prisoner of their actions.
Many people lose their husbands to unexpected death and don't get to grow old with them, either. They may go through the same stages of anger but without the added frustration of seeing that person destroying lives right before their eyes--although a person who lost their wife at the same time I got the big BD told me he would much rather be in my shoes because at least his wife would still be alive even if she hated him. But we each have to play the cards as they are dealt to us and try to find new meaning for our lives.
-
Oh--and I didn't mean to minimize the grief, anger, betrayal, abandonment, frustration, etc. Just saying it is not a "personality fault" so much as a stage in the grieving process.
I have had an image of this whole thing like our spouses have locked themselves into a room with a one way mirror. We can see everything they do but they can't hear or see us--they just see themselves and they keep carrying on as long as they feel safer in the room. We can't get to them and only they can unlock the door and come out. And in fact as long as they think we are waiting by the door the more stubborn they get about coming out. It doesn't apply totally but it does express the frustration of seeing what they do but not having as much influence as we would like.
-
Hi Medusa
I do hold him responsible as well.
He pisses me off big time because I feel like shaking him that he is throwing away so much on a ow. And yes I'm sorry but she really is a ow.
I made the mistake of ringing her when I first found out about the affair. My H had ended it with her and she was quite indignant that he had done that. Meow he had not only let her down but her Father. God knows what that was about but I know for a fact that my Father when he was alive would have had a fit if I had been in a relationship with a MM. But he used to visit all her family and they had no problem.
I know I am obviously biased but she really is a narcissist big time. But she's skinny and she probably knows all the tricks of a ow in bed so for that my daft stupid H is going to throw away our lives. I've known him 36 years and M 33. So yes I feel anger at him too because I can see he,is being a bloody idiot.
-
Hi Still Kicking
I can understand your Friend saying he would rather be in your shoes because then at least she would still be alive.
I know what it is like to loose people you love. When my Parents died it was the most terrible all consuming pain.
For many years I used to wake up sometimes at night afraid that my Husband would die. I always longed in a selfish way for me to go first because I know I would suffer terribly. But I have thought many times that really I would have found it easier if he had of died because then you do not have the betrayal and the knowledge that he is with another Woman.
-
Attaching to this thread.
I completely agree with Medusa's take on the OP. What amazes me is that when they go into "their" crisis, they take us and everyone else with them, at least at first. This is because we are in shock, in disbelief that what we thought was a good relationship, is somehow seen from a different perspective by the MLCer as the worst decision they ever made, even though they seemed to be happy for decades prior to this. They make a unilateral decision, that we have no say in, no way of changing their minds, no way of making sense of the madness that they currently find themselves in. Whether you want to call it temporary insanity or not, that is truly what it boils down to.
The OP, the relationship with them, is what sucks them into an alternate dimension, which causes them to loose all sense of right and wrong. It is like a toxic mix of chemicals that sends them into this state of mind and the OP is part of that mix, which sends them into this madness. Both the OP and MLCer are messed up in their minds and they care about nothing else other than the "fix" that they get from each other, no matter what the cost is to anyone else around them. Until they come out of the "chemical high", they never know how much destruction they have caused to everyone around them and ultimately to themselves. By that time, they come back to reality to find all of the destruction they have caused and then and only then understand, the immense pain that they have caused to the people that truly loved them. And many times it is too late or the pain they have caused to severe for anything to be done to save the one and only relationship, that they were meant to be in, which was filled with true love and not imitation love.
-
I bear no hatred for OW, now. She is what she is,and even though she pursued him, he could have said no. She wants to screw around with a married man, it's her problem. As weird as it may sound, I actually thank both of them for their affair because it has, ultimately, been positive for me. They are no longer important to my life.
I couldn't have said this better myself! This is exactly how I feel....I even told X this! I thanked her for the opportunity for me to look at both the marriage and myself and allow me to do necessary changes to better me! And, aside from the affects on the kids which we are working through, it has been positive experience once it all came full circle!
To be honest with you I am bitter. If that is a personality fault in me then that is the way,it is. Maybe in time it will fade. I can only hope so. But she did pursue him relentlessly when he finished with her and I do see her as a morally bankrupt selfish individual.
The reason why we hate the OW and not our H is because we have love for our H. I know he has a character fault. I also think you are right in thatif it hadn't been this old who're then it would have been some other wh*re who he would have got with.
HMT,
This all will eventually pass; it already has for me! I blamed the OM's for a while in the beginning until I took a step back and started assessing things! Yes, the OP's generally do have character flaws.....but so does the spouse / former spouse. And sometimes they are very glaring once you detach and realize these flaws were there all along, either buried or we paid no notice and wrote them off!
Eventually you put the blame where it needs to be.....straight on the MLCer/WS! Then you see it for what it is! Then you progress and, in my opinion, they become left behind!
DO
-
Anyone here have experience with H coming to stay a few days while having or especially living with an OW? If so, how do they pull that off without OW going nuts? Did they lie or tell her the truth and tell her to deal with it? Any experiences of knowing the dynamic of this in your sitch?
Asking because H wants to come and stay a few days with D in February...so in about 3 months. A started 3 1/2 years ago and he has been moved out and living with OW for 7 months. I don't know how he thinks he can pull this off. I am not concerned for myself because I have no interest in him now at all. Just wondering if this is any indication of him progressing out of the tunnel or the OW relationship losing its shine.
-
Hi Willit,
It's happening to me right now. H is here for Thanksgiving. Playing happy families when relatives are around. Pulling out my chair, helping me with my coat, opening the car door. Kneeling next to me in Church and asking for-forgiveness. But not wearing ring. Then won't look at me while we are talking when he is home alone. Told me this is all my fault because I had a mini MLC 6 years ago. H said he was happy in our marriage. But once I had an MLC, he apparently believes this would be the inevitable result. He would blow up our marriage through a long-term affair. :o
I did move to the spare BR. H works overseas and OW is in yet another country. What I've noticed is that whenever H come home here, she'll post a new pic on FB. She's a mom, but the only things she posts correlate to dates when H comes here or comes to see her. This pic is like a glamor shot. Whitened her teeth, red lipstick. Like she wants to look manically happy, without a care. Or make H jealous. What a nightmare. Who wants someone else's husband?
-
Hi Willit,
It's happening to me right now. H is here for Thanksgiving. Playing happy families when relatives are around. Pulling out my chair, helping me with my coat, opening the car door. Kneeling next to me in Church and asking for-forgiveness. But not wearing ring. Then won't look at me while we are talking when he is home alone. Told me this is all my fault because I had a mini MLC 6 years ago. H said he was happy in our marriage. But once I had an MLC, he apparently believes this would be the inevitable result. He would blow up our marriage through a long-term affair. :o
I did move to the spare BR. H works overseas and OW is in yet another country. What I've noticed is that whenever H come home here, she'll post a new pic on FB. She's a mom, but the only things she posts correlate to dates when H comes here or comes to see her. This pic is like a glamor shot. Whitened her teeth, red lipstick. Like she wants to look manically happy, without a care. Or make H jealous. What a nightmare. Who wants someone else's husband?
Lol. Pathetic.
Has he ever told you or have you ever asked if she knows he is there and what she said? Or do you think he lied to her?
I just don't see how an OW who an H "left for" would tolerate H staying over. It was one thing when they were still living at home, they had no choice but to, but now that he is "theirs"...wouldn't they be nuts over it? I think if I were the OW who "won" I would! And would try to forbid it through my wonderful emotional blackmail super powers. ;)
-
I think they lie. They would have to or else they would lose OW. It's the only logical explanation I can think of. My husband was here about a month ago. He fell asleep with his head in my lap while we were watching a movie. I didn't mind that he was going to stay. I got him a blanket and pillow. Kissed him on the forehead and said good night to him. What bothered me is that around 2am D14 and I were finishing up the movie we were watching when his phone started to ring. It was OW2. He looked at the phone, turned the phone off completely and then went back to sleep saying he was going to stay the night. Ended up sleeping over two nights in a row. His phone was turned off the entire time. Now tell me, if OW2 knew that he was at the family home with me, and he had his phone turned off on purpose would she not get upset? I know it bugged the heck out of me that she was calling the man I am married to and he keeps telling me that he wants to come home. I asked him about a week ago how does having another woman in his life help him to be able to move home. He says it doesn't and he will deal with it. So we shall see, huh? So, we shall see.
-
Hahaha. Try to think of it like this...when he does that, don't get upset, laugh. Because you know she is getting a dose of what he did to you. No matter what his excuse, she knows he made excuses and lied to you, and deep down inside she knows she is no different, and as a matter of fact, knows that he is more likely to lie to her!!! I would actual enjoy that knowing she was freaking out. Especially since phone rang and then he turned it off. You know she called again so she knows he turned it off. ;D ;D Enjoy that!
I really think too that even if they are lying to them, the fact that they would risk their relationship with OW and know that maybe she will be pissed or know the truth, may show that the shine is tarnishing. And that OW is not as treasured as before and the fear in the possibility of losing them is waning.
I think this is so in your H's case. I don't know if you are intimate or if he was just snuggling, but he seems to be coming around with those actions.
Him saying he knows it doesn't help and he will deal with it makes me think that may be where my H's head is at. I think him asking to come in February to stay 2-3 days, which is 3 months out, may mean that he is going to put a plan in action to try to wrap things up to make a break. Because why not try to stay now over the weekend for two days, why wait? But we shall see.
Either way, if he is here, I will enjoy the fact that OW will be squirming, regardless of whether he lies to her or not. For all I know, he wouldn't even tell me if they broke up already because he won't admit having been with her in the first place. Lol.
-
Willit,
H is working in another country. He may have long term plans to be with OW when his contract ends in April, but he hasn't shared that yet. He went back to OW in August, so he had to have made some kind of commitment to her. She looks confident, so something's up. I think in my case, H must have told OW that he was here to wrap things up. He would have highlighted all the things he had done for OW.
Yet H was ready to be intimate with me. I had to tell him it was a no go since he had OW. And he didn't say that he doesn't. He said the only thing that was clear was that he wanted to "be intimate". Not sure how you wrap things up by being intimate, but I'm not in that mindset ::) And as I say, he's simultaneously telling me he's not involved with anyone; that I'm suspicious; and that this was the risk I ran through a limited MLC 6 years ago. Plus hiding his phones, wallet, backpack. Yet he brought me an anniversary note I once gave him to show me that he had it. I have whiplash from the mixed messages. :o. He is a world class cake eater. Plus the OW has had the past 3 years (I only found out a few months ago) to run off due to his continued dealings with me, and she hasn't, so why should H worry?
-
My H still lives at home and stays with OW on the weekend. He leaves here on Thursdays and returns on Sunday :o I do not understand how the OW deals with him living with me still! He must feed her some serious BS. How does she put up with not being able to come to his home? They are only together at her place or hotels. How long does someone put up with that?! I am kind of curious how the holidays are going to play out - H does not bring her around family.
I figure that H tells her that we are not together and some how blames me for the living situation.
-
overseas partner...I have been that person. I will tell you that the expat culture is dangerous to married people apart because there is an understanding that there are no rules in all but military compounds where it's a mixed bag. There is a freedom that people get high on. There is also typically a lot of drinking. Mostly though, its about living like a teenager...cake is right. I spent 90% of of my social time fending off overseas contractors and locals that all assumed that my marriage didn't count everywhere in the world...it was a real struggle. I had so many conversations where I had to defend my definition that ended with "you will change" or forced sexuality. I only found a handful of people who truly stayed faithful and even they slipped up with a kiss here and there when lonely.
Coming home, you come back to "reality", but you come with a bunch of expectations and dreams of the American dream fantasy life. This fantasy is just as dangerous, particularly in the first month of return. It's enough to trigger mlc in many people for sure.
Many people make a life of living in the expat fantasy. They bop in and out of people's lives. Only recently have I seen the depression that follows when they can't keep it up the game and realize they amounted to nothing in life because relationships are not deep or supportive when life goes to $hit healthwise. Not sure if your guy has made a career of this, but I will say it's not as flashy as many think and it's tiring more often than expats will admit.
I doubt the other woman is much to really be jealous of since she linked up with a man living in a fantasy world not dealing with the mess he was making of other people's lives. That can't really feel good. No matter what terrible story he might have told about his partner, she will never have the security that he is not full of $hit because she has never met you, I assume.
Be nice. Really nice. Think Mother Teresa. Talk slow and calm with him. Talk in short 3 sentence blurbs only - no more story swapping. Remind him of the mystery and beauty that attracted him. Do it to get him back, break them up, or just for yourself....nothing is better than being the better partner when you are a few day or months out. I find that when I am anxious emotional and angry in front of him, I doubt myself and my self worth later.
-
My H still lives at home and stays with OW on the weekend. He leaves here on Thursdays and returns on Sunday :o I do not understand how the OW deals with him living with me still! He must feed her some serious BS. How does she put up with not being able to come to his home? They are only together at her place or hotels. How long does someone put up with that?! I am kind of curious how the holidays are going to play out - H does not bring her around family.
I figure that H tells her that we are not together and some how blames me for the living situation.
Wow, that must be rough. I don't know how you cope with that. I see in your profile it says you are "done". Not sure if this has changed. Maybe living there because of finances? In separate rooms? Not familiar with your sitch. Will find and read up.
But if your status has, do you have any "plan" in mind to stop his continuing weekly behavior, which sounds like cake eating to its fullest??? Something's got to give to encourage a change in him and I doubt it will be her detaching. :-\
-
Just had to repost a sentence from In It that had me cracking up. Think its the funniest thing I've read to date. Re: The OW:
"She discovered her knight in shining armor was an a$$hole in tin foil."
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Wow, that must be rough. I don't know how you cope with that.
Do you have any "plan" in mind to stop his continuing weekly behavior, which sounds like cake eating to its fullest??? Something's got to give to encourage a change in him and I doubt it will be her detaching. :-\
There is nothing that I can do to stop his behavior - it is not my problem. There really isn't much cake eating - I don't do anything for him and we are just civil enough to remain in the same house. I have tried several times to get him to leave and he won't budge. OW is an affair down - she will be the death of their relationship at some point. I am fairly detached from the situation. He has been seeing OW on and off for 2 years now!
-
Willit, my H agreed to stay 3 nights in my home with our D15 and our dogs while I went out of town for a job interview about a month ago. It provided me an opportunity to open lines of communication with H that had been closed for a while and I am sure it was the first time he hadn't slept with OW since he moved in with her in January. Plus he slept in MY bed. Must have pissed her off royally.
In the weeks since I have had only negative interactions with H which have included a final push for the divorce. I like to think that these negative texts have been prompted by OW and her issues but bottom line is that divorce is happening. :(
Whatever strides I had made towards communication have been negated by him apparently trying to make it up to her for being with his daughter. I am hoping and praying that he eventually sees through her and her manipulation but I think it may be a while yet.
-
June,
Thanks for commenting about expats. I think of where H works as a "sunny place for shady people." Western marital values and our version of women's rights are not in play. H has been there almost 2 years. H flew OW in a couple of times.
I do think H was exhausted by all this earlier this year. Someone claiming to be OW's sister sent me a "revenge" email revealing the A, saying H was a liar and the sister was using H for $$$. H didn't buy that it came from her. ??? But H expressed remorse and a desire to rebuild our M. However, the OW relationship wasn't really over and he's been yo-yoing back and forth since.
That whole mess made me express upset in less than positive ways a few months ago, but I haven't gotten outwardly upset since. The closest is H getting upset today and saying that because we had a nice day together, why wouldn't we be intimate?
I'm thinking, I'm supposed to feel comfortable with someone who won't go anywhere in the house without his backpack, for fear I will look in it? Who creeps around in the dark? Who stands and stares at me, or across the room, in the dark, when he thinks I am asleep?
All I replied was that I'm not comfortable because H will leave and go back thousands of miles away, and I won't know what is going on. H said there is nothing he can do about that. And that my refusing intimacy b/c H won't discuss the R is making HIM feel cheap. OK then.
H lives in a fantasy world and I gather that OW does, too. Dr. Who, Lord of the Rings. Everything is an epic drama. OW has a job, but she lives in a socialist country. She's a divorcee with a couple of kids and little extra money. I figure that she is never going anywhere as long as H will pay attention to her.
I gather that H wants to see if he can have a nice time with me - including intimacy - as a prelude to deciding whether H may come back. Or H could just be here to stage manage the break up. What I do know is that doing it his way in the past has only made me feel disrespected and traumatized. So if the boundaries I need for my own well being cause H to run again, he was running anyway.
-
June,
Thanks for commenting about expats. I think of where H works as a "sunny place for shady people." Western marital values and our version of women's rights are not in play. H has been there almost 2 years. H flew OW in a couple of times.
H lives in a fantasy world and I gather that OW does, too. Dr. Who, Lord of the Rings. Everything is an epic drama. OW has a job, but she lives in a socialist country. She's a divorcee with a couple of kids and little extra money. I figure that she is never going anywhere as long as H will pay attention to her.
I gather that H wants to see if he can have a nice time with me - including intimacy - as a prelude to deciding whether H may come back. Or H could just be here to stage manage the break up. What I do know is that doing it his way in the past has only made me feel disrespected and traumatized. So if the boundaries I need for my own well being cause H to run again, he was running anyway.
Just want to point out that my husband had three wild nights of sex, including sex in a night club...and then went to work and came home and said it was over. Beware I have since learned that men in particular will just sex to decide if a partner is worth sticking around for....when they have already decided.
Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical) I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.
Knowing how bodies may will react (outside the mind) isn't bad. personally I know that my husband is a drug for me. When he is sweet (as he has been for three days in emails) I can't stop my hope from growing and warm feelings return like nothing bad ever happened....it's not good and puts me on the crazy train.
-
Thanks, June. My experience is that when H hadn't ruled out reconciling our marriage, H was insistent on talking about our relationship. Once H thought it was over and he had gotten OW back on the string, H didn't want to talk about our marriage. Trying to get me to be intimate with him is, in my opinion, just an ego thing.
The good news is that with H around and acting like its a normal holiday, I sit there and see everything through the prism of the affair. I don't think I want to invest my time and energy in someone who is capable of this kind of deception, whether it is due to MLC, or otherwise. If H wanted to get a D because of my short MLC 6 years ago, he could have done that in an "honorable" manner. To handle things this way is just vile.
-
Just want to point out that my husband had three wild nights of sex, including sex in a night club...and then went to work and came home and said it was over. Beware I have since learned that men in particular will just sex to decide if a partner is worth sticking around for....when they have already decided.
Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical) I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.
I'm sorry to hear he did that to you June, and you are aware of it. Our imaginations are bad enough.
Your second paragraph makes me really wonder how a man can get sucked into MLC so easily. I know of a guy who had an affair on his W, but it was a one night stand and he didn't "fall in love" and leave his spouse for it (it was an alcohol fueled stupid decision - no excuse though). Mainly because, yes, that is mostly true for guys. Then again, he was in his early 30's so probably not quite MLC age yet.
I can certainly see guys getting a sports car, a motorcycle, or some other material object to try to re-kindle some youth (which is where the MLC stereotype comes from), but not the leave your spouse, have an affair(s), treat her worse than your worst enemy, etc. That part is what is crazy to me. I'm sure most of us could live with a new material item.
-
One thing that has been kind of perplexing me, mainly from her lies today, is after they admit to an affair, why do they still lie?!? During my first bout, she denied and denied. She never admitted to anything until she came begging back, even though the evidence was painfully obvious.
I'm starting to think that she would have done the same if she wouldn't have gotten caught by 2 of my friends. So maybe she's reverting back to the "he's just a friend" stage because that is her default behavior?! I don't know. It is just so weird. Maybe she's trying to protect me (herself actually) from the damage the truth is capable of. Oh well, one more messed up/delusional attribute an MLCer displays....so odd.
She went "scouting elk" with her uncle today supposedly. She said she felt "so privileged" because they never share their secret hunting spots with anybody. She's NEVER done this before, nor has she been invited (me neither, so if OM was, I'll feel even more betrayed - not that I really care, I guess it is just the principal of it). Granted, her uncle is in MLC as well from what I can tell. The stupid part is we got close to 9 inches of snow today in town. I'm sure the mountains got 2-3 times that. I'm surprised they didn't get stuck and stranded. Then again, it is probably a lie so she could spend the day with OM instead. Or all 3 went so OM could bond with her uncle..who knows.
-
I like to think that these negative texts have been prompted by OW and her issues but bottom line is that divorce is happening. :(
Whatever strides I had made towards communication have been negated by him apparently trying to make it up to her for being with his daughter.
I truly believe that some need to get divorced b/c they feel that is what is causing the pain inside them. When the divorce is done and the dust settles, what if that pain is still there? Who are they going to turn on? Plus, this person was an active participant in the destruction of our family, part of the cause of the wedge between them and their children.
It sucks that it takes so much time.
-
One thing that has been kind of perplexing me, mainly from her lies today, is after they admit to an affair, why do they still lie?!? During my first bout, she denied and denied. She never admitted to anything until she came begging back, even though the evidence was painfully obvious.
I'm starting to think that she would have done the same if she wouldn't have gotten caught by 2 of my friends. So maybe she's reverting back to the "he's just a friend" stage because that is her default behavior?! I don't know. It is just so weird. Maybe she's trying to protect me (herself actually) from the damage the truth is capable of. Oh well, one more messed up/delusional attribute an MLCer displays....so odd.
It's been said on here many times that one of the traits of mlc is the lying. They lie constantly it seems and not just about the big things - affairs, where they live, ect. I believe they do this for a couple of reasons at least one being that they really do not want to damage the potential of a relationship with you if or when they ever decide to consider the LBS as a viable option and want to return. In their teenage thinking, they are trying to preserve some of your feelings. Of course, like all of their actions, it is mostly for their benefit.
I have asked my husband multiple times why since I now know, is he still lying about everything. Besides the "I don't want to hurt you" He also said to me one time "because I have done so many things that I am deeply ashamed of". Apparently, he is aware of his actions going against his inner self (core person) but cannot stop the behavior. :'(
Adia
-
Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical) I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.
The reason for this is because of Vasopressin in men and the fact that women have 10 times the amount of Oxytocin baseline than men do. Where the Oxy in a woman rises immediately after sex / orgasm, in men, vasopressin takes over and actually causes the need for separateness! Men do get a huge rush of Oxy at the exact moment of orgasm, but vassopressin takes over very quickly. Oxy synergizes with estrogen in women; vaso synergizes with testosterone in men!
Here is a link and the explanations:
http://www.darionardi.com/BulletinArt9.html
Vasopressin - Vasopressin is made in the brain. Both men and women make it. However, the male hormone testosterone synergizes with vasopressin – the two greatly enhance each other. A woman and man might have equal levels of vasopressin but the man experiences stronger effects. Physically, vasopressin causes water retention and high blood pressure; high levels may increase forehead size. Personality wise, vasopressin influences male social and sexual behavior, public communication, and paternal behavior. In animals (mammals), it promotes aggression, territorial competition and dominance with other males. It bonds males to mates and children. For men, it also promotes partner recognition, sexual arousal, courtship behavior, monogamy, pair bonding and mate guarding. Vasopressin also improves cognitive ability by enhancing memory. It allows one to feel separate, with dampened emotional responses and more “sensible” or “reasonable” behavior. Depressed people also have higher vasopressin.
Vasotocin is a variation of vasopressin found in fish, birds and frogs. It promotes vocalization, singing, mating calls and territorial behavior. It causes male animals to respond to the sight of attractive females. It is found in the human visual system (pineal gland), and male human bonding tends to be more visual. This might explain why adolescent boys of all types are often preoccupied with images of beautiful potential mates!
Oxytocin Oxytocin is made in the brain. Both women and men make it. However, the female hormone estrogen synergizes with oxytocin – the two greatly enhance each other. A man and women might have equal levels of oxytocin but the woman experiences stronger effects. Physically, oxytocin facilitates childbirth and nursing for women. In both sexes, it increases by five-fold during sex. In men, however, it immediately drops and vasopressin rises sharply right afterward - explaining why men generally feel a sudden sense of separateness! Personality wise, oxytocin promotes touching, affection and bonding. In both men and women it rises instantly with a single touch. Oxytocin also influences female social behavior. It promotes “nesting“; monogamy and pair bonding; the nurturing, acceptance and protection of offspring; and pup-retrieval in animals. It influences mate selection. Many of these effects are confirmed in humans as well as animals. For all its positive benefits, high oxytocin inhibits cognitive ability by impairing learning and memory. It encourages emotional extremes but it also prevents depression.
DO
-
Lots of great information!
I believe my husband is wanting a divorce because he really thinks he's done with me after the interest of a 32 year old that he is going to run off with. She is not in the same state but they have bonded via a research connection. He really believes he's in love with her. Could he be? I think so, she is probably going to have to dump him before he'll walk but then again MLC could step in and he could make the decision. After all he walked away from me.
Another reason for the divorce is he's still lying about having an EA and being connection with the person. He's wanting to have this divorce because he doesn't want to look bad. In his head he thinks he's doing a good job covering up and that there is still a possibility he could come out of all this looking ok. It won't happen but he still doesn't see the big picture and that he's not covering up anything really.
-
The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded.
I'll just add to my post above and this particular sentence from June; this is absolutely correct. Men are typically berated as "only wanting sex". It's not all we want, but this statement is generally correct that sex is a primary factor in the pair bonding of a man to his wife/SO. It's both a physical and emotional need! On average, men want/desire sex about every 3 days!
When it is withheld, whether purposefully or otherwise, we withdraw emotionally because of feeling rejected and the affect of the chemical bonding starts to deteriorate.
DO
-
If wayward man is getting sex from the OW, how then will a bond be developed with LBS? What reignites the spark?
-
It's more than just sex, dbpd. Remember that the OP is as messed up as the MLCer. Once the infatuation wears off and they start coming to their senses (if they do) they will hopefully start to remember that their spouse/former spouse isn't the horrible creature they made us out to be. I don't accept that all of this is based on hormones. They absolutely play a role, but there is a lot more going on.
-
If wayward man is getting sex from the OW, how then will a bond be developed with LBS? What reignites the spark?
It won't happen until the fantasy burns out, her true nature appears, the incompatibilities start interfering and the physical part dies off most likely!
The bond you have / had is still there; it's just buried under piles of his BS and he's self-medicating with the OW. It wont have a chance to happen until he see's the mess and realizes what he left behind and bounces off rock bottom.
It's more than just sex, dbpd. Remember that the OP is as messed up as the MLCer. Once the infatuation wears off and they start coming to their senses (if they do) they will hopefully start to remember that their spouse/former spouse isn't the horrible creature they made us out to be. I don't accept that all of this is based on hormones. They absolutely play a role, but there is a lot more going on.
Medusa is correct! The hormonal info I posted is at play always, but there is more to it. And it doesn't mean the bond created just "goes away" because the physical aspect isn't there. I was merely adding to what June had referenced and was showing the differences from a biological aspect!
DO
-
My H sex drive took a downturn (barely once a month >:() when he turned 40 and joined the Police (he is currently 46) so what's the attraction with a much younger OW??? and a 1 yr old child. Can't be sex, can't have that much time and without the inclination......
-
Men and women both withdraw sex when something else is going on that they don't lake and can't communicate, its comparatively rare that it's medical hormonal issues.
Withdrawing physically is often a biological natural aversion because the partner as a safe haven....its something else that is not communicated and stored away in fear or anger or anxiety or worry etc. It can be a slow process of withdraw so that a partner doesn't notice until years later. At this point in a relationship (early, non abusive) counselors, not using the latest science, often advise that it's OK to physically withdraw in protection....science says the opposite when you want to maintain a relationship for the long term in these situations....of course relationship coaching (not counseling) is the other scientific (social science and stats) advised treatment...not relationship counseling!
Most of us already passed this window here....myself included. I was not educated and didn't see clues of withdraw that now I see clearly. I my case I did up my sex initiation and I saw a great response....but he was detaching already, when I noticed. He got angry that I was working in things months later. He actually said that he was angry, post bomb drop!..Lord...suddenly verbal....great....not that his words have been clear given his present emotional roller coaster.
That said, I don't mind being the person blamed for working in things when he is detaching...not the worst charge. Of course I have things I want to do better and fears that were driving my actions that I am ashamed of now, but my stressed out family and friends (for me) are great people to practice my new relationship skills with...it takes a lot of time to change behaviors and have it feel natural.
I working on me with the hope of showing him that safe haven he once saw in me. I am praying he is not completely detached and that his questioning the shortness of life, his past choices not meeting his present desires, and pressure and advice of his anxious divorced mother - will fade away in time, leaving the man I know and love to think clearly for himself and live in the present with me again.
-
Not sure if anyone has ever posted these lyrics or not... It's called "I Believe" by Christina Perri, it seems appropriate to all of us LBS who are facing having to re-invent a life for ourselves...
I believe if I knew where I was going, I’d lose my way
I believe that the words that he told you, are not your grave
I know that, we are not, the weight of all our memories
I believe in the things that I am afraid to say
Hold on, hold on
I believe in the lost possibilities, you can't see
And I believe that the darkness reminds us, where light can be
I know that, your heart is, still beating, beating, darling
I believe that you fell, so you would, land next to me
‘Cause I have been where you are before
And I have felt the pain of losing who you are
And I have died so many times, but I am still alive
I believe that tomorrow is stronger than yesterday
And I believe that your head is the only thing in your way
I wish that, you could see, your scars turn into beauty
I believe that today it’s okay, to be not okay
Hold on, hold on
‘Cause I have been where you are before
And I have felt the pain of losing who you are
And I have died so many times, but I am still alive
This is not the end of me, this is the beginning
-
This is not the end of me, this is the beginning
At the end of the song she repeats this over and over along with the words "I am still alive" and "Hold on". I need to keep listening to this until I believe it. Thanks for posting this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53CNJnmFr5I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53CNJnmFr5I)
-
My H is being increasingly affectionate, nice and helpful to me since he moved out to be with OW. We had a R talk. He didn't monster and admitted that I was right to say that he did horrible things to me. Then when he saw me he kissed my cheek and put my face in his hands and said "Hang in there."
I feel like if he can admit he did wrong and put my face in his hands, and be overly nice he must be somewhat lucid enough to know if his decision was right or wrong. And be pretty sure of himself, no?
Not sure I'm explaining this well but hope you can understand what I mean.
-
willit,
Don't jump the gun here. His consistent actions over a decent period of time equals change you can believe in.
So far, he's not to be trusted. AND he's still with OW.
You know what I will say - Acknowledge it's nice but keep moving along.
He could be a cake eater.
I would maintain boundaries and be careful he doesn't take you for a ride again.
Like I said, it's nice but as long as he's with her, there is no discussion.
Take care
-
They lie because they really do not want to damage the potential of a relationship with you if or when they ever decide to consider the LBS as a viable option and want to return...and they've done so many things that they are deeply ashamed of".
Adia,
I agree. My H has demonstrated both of those ideas to a tee.
Many LBS's express confusion as to how their spouses can know they are making regrettable, hurtful decisions, and still plow on. One word: ADDICTION.
I've been addicted to substances, and had an eating disorder, and I know what it feels like to be caught in compulsive behavior I know is destroying me. I also know the freedom of facing one's demons and breaking the addictive cycle.
I was in rehab in the early 90's. I was one of the few patients who'd never had a DUI, or any trouble with the law, and who still had a viable career, good health, and relatively undamaged relationships with family/friends. I remember looking at the many cohorts who'd lost everything, and thinking, "How will they ever get sober? They've destroyed their lives. They have nothing to go back to."
Just writing this gives me great compassion for H, and the desire not to abandon him, at least as a loving friend. I think it also speaks to his lying...he doesn't want to 'blow everything up' because he hopes one day to recover and 'have something to go back to'. Of course, as with any addict, I need to detach and set boundaries. Like OP says, Al-anon is a great help in doing this.
I see H's OW as a big pile of cocaine. Thrilling for the moment, but a bad, bad ride over time.
-
SofG, thanks for this reminder. My daughter thinks the OM is behind my wife filing recently for divorce but I wonder why she would go along with it. I do attend Alanon so I understand the nature of addiction, but sometimes I forget. She's only been with him for 6 months. Do you think she could still be addicted to him even though she doesn't seem to be happy? Also, physically she seems to be falling apart.
-
The addiction can last for years, Brain. Mine has been with OW for 2 years, and there is no sign that he's going to ever leave her. Quite the opposite: they are moving in together.
In addition, even though they are unhappy (guilt) we have to remember that infatuation lasts as long as two years. They are addicted to the feelings they get from that as well.
-
Do you think she could still be addicted to him even though she doesn't seem to be happy? Also, physically she seems to be falling apart.
YES.
Addiction is not a happy or healthy state of being. It is a slow motion train wreck. Insidious and powerful. NOT rational. It can't be overcome by another person's begging/pleading for it to end.
I don't know all the factors that helped me overcome my addictions. Some things that helped were: 1) I had a life ' to go back to' if/when I got myself together, 2) I was tired of suffering: hangovers, money problems, excessive 'sick days', 3) I was tired of the shame I felt about my behavior (a motivator for me, but this can also be a reason to continue to 'run' or 'medicate'). 4) I was acutely aware of the diminishing returns of the substances. The highs were fewer and lower, and the lows were more frequent and really, really low. 4)I had a spiritual awakening. The companionship, love and support of a higher power helped fill the void inside me.
Consider this: One reason addicts are afraid to try to 'get clean' is that they don't know if they can. They think, "What if I go to rehab and it doesn't work?" A rational person would say Cross that bridge when you come to it...you've got nothing to lose...give it a try..., but an addict thinks I have everything to lose by trying. Right now I've got my substance (which sucks, but it's a comforting constant), and I've got the 'potential for getting clean' sitting on the horizon. If I give up my substance, and reach the horizon only to find it's a false promise, I've lost both things that keep me going. Game Over.
It takes a very brave person, or a very desperate person, or both, to try to get clean...it means risking failure with a capital F.
-
H once said....I can't go back because topsy would probably dump me.....that was only a few months into living with OW...guess the addiction is strong in him.
I also know that he once admitted that if I didn't find out about OW and it didn't work with her he would come back. Truth always comes out in the end.
My H is neither brave nor desperate at the moment.... So life goes on, me 'half' happy...H, who knows??
-
Addiction is not a happy or healthy state of being. It is a slow motion train wreck. Insidious and powerful. NOT rational. It can't be overcome by another person's begging/pleading for it to end.
I don't know all the factors that helped me overcome my addictions. Some things that helped were: 1) I had a life ' to go back to' if/when I got myself together, 2) I was tired of suffering: hangovers, money problems, excessive 'sick days', 3) I was tired of the shame I felt about my behavior (a motivator for me, but this can also be a reason to continue to 'run' or 'medicate'). 4) I was acutely aware of the diminishing returns of the substances. The highs were fewer and lower, and the lows were more frequent and really, really low. 4)I had a spiritual awakening. The companionship, love and support of a higher power helped fill the void inside me.
Consider this: One reason addicts are afraid to try to 'get clean' is that they don't know if they can. They think, "What if I go to rehab and it doesn't work?" A rational person would say Cross that bridge when you come to it...you've got nothing to lose...give it a try..., but an addict thinks I have everything to lose by trying. Right now I've got my substance (which sucks, but it's a comforting constant), and I've got the 'potential for getting clean' sitting on the horizon. If I give up my substance, and reach the horizon only to find it's a false promise, I've lost both things that keep me going. Game Over.
Excellently put SofG