Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: MIMIx on January 04, 2015, 08:01:33 AM
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Forum friends,
I thought that I would start a new thread with a new topic.
I would like to hear from experienced people, what is meant by 'leading the way'.
I think i understand the concept and why you would use it but would like some specific examples of how you led the way.
My understanding of this is, if they come to you for help, be a beacon for them, a pillar of strength. Be there for them. Be a listener, not a talker. If they need help, help them.
A bullet point list would be great.
All the best,
Mimi
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Hmmm I am not so sure I agree with your interpretation of leading the way.
I think the way to be a beacon is to get your own life together:
Live a happy, healthy, fulfilling, productive drama-free existence.
Make sure that your life does not contain self-destructive behaviors.
In other words set a good example for the MLCer.
However when you talk about "helping them" well there I start to get worried.
One of the key problems MLCers have is that they act without taking into account the consequences of their actions. That is to say they quit their jobs, without thinking what are they going to do if they are unemployed; they spend their retirement without thinking what are they going to do without retirement money; they go into debt without thinking how they are going to pay off their debt; they are promiscuous without thinking they might catch a disease and they alienate their children without thinking who is going to be there for them when they get older.
One of the problems with "helping" the MLCer is that you allow them to continue to live the fantasy of having two spouses, of being irresponsible, and most of all with respect to MLCers is that you "mommy" them. Male MLCers are used to looking at the LBS as their mommy who will get them out of trouble. A lot of MLC is really just a repeat of adolescent rebellion.
I think the best way we can help them is by setting a good example with our own lives, and waiting for their brain to mature.
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Male MLCers are used to looking at the LBS as their mommy who will get them out of trouble
Do you think this is why they are so angry with LBS about money? Especially if LBS was the one to take care of the money before BD??
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I think the way to be a beacon is to get your own life together:
Live a happy, healthy, fulfilling, productive drama-free
In other words set a good example for the MLCer.
I think the best way we can help them is by setting a good example with our own lives, and waiting for their brain to mature.
Agreed.
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Hey there, completely agree with long journey.
I believe that our ability to employ coping strategies which ultimately lead to us getting on with our lives, in spite of what they have done, is what the mlcer sits back and thinks about. They do not posses these coping strategies and never have.
I remember my h saying to me that he didn't know how he would have coped if I had said some of the things he said to me.
I think in the beginning it causes even more resentment towards us, but they sit up and think how? How is she okay? What does she know that I don't? I thought she would never cope with work, kids, bills, house etc etc but look at her she is even happy how??????
They never achieve this, not while in crisis. But they look and they learn.
I do not think for a second we should help them in any way. They choose, they loose. We made the right choices and look how happy we are. Would t you like to be us????
By all means listen etc, but in my situation I have listened and all I have heard is deluded nonsense and this is after 5 years. In one ear and out the other.
Sd
X
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Hmmm....
I would agree that they should not be helped while still running and being cuckoo. I also do not mean that you do the rehab work for them either. I just mean that the hand gets extended...
But, what if they appear to have hit rock bottom? No where to turn but to you because you are the one who they still trust? Once their happiness options have run out and they have nowhere else to turn?
I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
This is where I am coming from. I would agree 100% that any help you offer in early days would only be enabling. But what if you receive a distress call from them after 2 years of this craziness? Would you still recommend the same advice?
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Interesting topic.
But, what if they appear to have hit rock bottom? No where to turn but to you because you are the one who they still trust? Once their happiness options have run out and they have nowhere else to turn?
I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
This is where I am coming from. I would agree 100% that any help you offer in early days would only be enabling. But what if you receive a distress call from them after 2 years of this craziness? Would you still recommend the same advice?
My 2 cents...and likely worth as much :P is that they tend to bounce...rock bottom seems to have a bit of spring to it :-\. Four and a half years in, I've lived, seen, heard about a few reconnections/extended touch and goes and, with a few exceptions, mlcers seem to find that extra pocket of energy, and off they go again - ESPECIALLY at the two-year mark. My opinion, again for what it's worth, is that the two-year mark is, on average, just the end of the beginning and not the beginning of the end. There are seemingly moments of clarity at this time but generally just enough to know that they've already caused a lot of damage but they're still not in any condition nor do they really WANT to actually do the work involved. Their two worlds are still being compared. And as crappy as their new world may be turning out, their old world (in their still quite foggy mind) was enough to set them running in the first place. Not to mention how stupid(er) they'd look having to go back, revisit all the lies told about the lbs and having to admit "ya...my bad". The thing is, we can't tell what we're dealing with until we look back at it. We'll likely experience dozens of moderate to heavy touch and goes, ow breakups, moments of clarity...how exhausting and painful, mentally and emotionally, it would be if each of these sends us off into high reconnection alert.
As far as what can and should be done on our end, I agree with the general consensus of living as if they won't be back, continue focussing on self and family, continue to protect finances, being kind and without expectation, and work on building a life you truly enjoy. Be yourself and not someone you think might attract husband back. Your authentic self will be attractive to someone who shares your values. Your joyful authentic self is the best lighthouse in the fog.
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I agree with the others that we don't know if they have hit bottom or not until we can look back - you will not know when it is happening.
But, what if they appear to have hit rock bottom? No where to turn but to you because you are the one who they still trust? Once their happiness options have run out and they have nowhere else to turn?
The MLCer is never going to come out of it if they continue to look to someone else to help them - this includes us! They are running and they will continue to run until they look in themselves for the help that they need. The best thing for the LBSer to do is get strong and hold their boundaries. I believe that the MLCer needs to see us as being consistent in our words and actions. We cannot make them happy.
I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
Yes this is a common theme but I think the commonality is that they were consistent. They kept their distance and let the MLCer work out their own issues, then when the MLCer's actions matched their words the LBS makes adjustments in order to guide the MLCer.
But what if you receive a distress call from them after 2 years of this craziness? Would you still recommend the same advice?
Yes - you have to remain detached until you can look back and see where they were. The MLCer will often reach out to us in distress but that doesn't mean that they are ready for our guidance. They need our strength - they test us to see if our strength is real which why we get the distress call only to have them run again because they are not ready. When they are ready they will move towards us regardless of what we do.
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I hear all of you loud and clear!
I guess it's onward and upward. Feeling my way as I inch along.
Luckily, I see the personal importance of having no expectations and just getting on with my own life.
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Leading for me means being the new, improved, confident you and showing it. Being able to look them in the eye and have no fear of what they'll do or say.
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I think - although I've no direct experience of it as it, so know nothing really - is that once they truly are remorseful and the fog of depression clears and, who knows, but the hormones probably balance themselves again also - they are desperate. We can only guess at what it must feel like to have been in a place where there was no joy, only pleasure-seeking; no self-confidence, only bolstering on external things to make one's self appear temporarily OK; and utter confusion and despair because of what's been done.
They know what they've done, once the awakening occurs. I think that if, at that point, you still see them as selfish, messed up human beings and that's it, then don't bother to stand. They are going to need love, acceptance and, yes, help, to make the return.
This is such a core topic, and a really interesting one. I think RCR's articles on Agape and forgiveness apply! As someone famous once said, 'To understand all, is to forgive all.'
If you haven't yet reached a point of forgiveness yet, read, read, read - and learn. And then decide.
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My thought is, that my personal strength is part of the problem and not part of a solution. I married Mr. Opposite.
I think that my personal strength is a trait that H DISLIKES in me. My strength reminds him of his weaknesses. My happiness translates to his unhappiness. When I have successes, he feels that he has failures. I think this is why he left in the first place. He finally buckled under the pressure of feeling unworthy. Although I feel badly, I don't think that I should give up my well adjusted ways of living, just to make him feel superior. This is where Old Pilot's words rang so true...I didn't break it, I cannot fix it.
So, I'm thinking that being strong and together is leading the way for me only. As far as leading the way for H, I just have to be a good listener and a supportive friend until he figures himself out.
Comments welcome because this is pretty crazy-making.
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That sounds right, MIMIx. I got the blame for being successful too. I think my strength and calmness became a negative. He wanted me to flare up in anger and fight him - it's not my way.
Nonetheless, it's important for the LBS to continue to get stronger in themselves, because then they can assess whether they want to take the reformed MLC-er back into their life and whether the r'ship will still work, and also so that the LBS has a life, outside of the MLC-er, whether or not the r'ship is restored.
Are you thinking more of Paving the Way - a different thing, I think - and more to do with the LBS-er (once they have recovered and are strong enough to decide, yes, I want this marriage and will work to restore it) being able to show forgiveness, love and more to the MLC-er.... As MeNow said, that's where being able to look them in the eye and not fear any response, not even Monster, comes in.
The one grows out of the other, perhaps. Self-growth leads to the ability to pave the way. Growing within yourself means you have love and patience to spare in order to hold out a hand to another, and be there for them through thick and thin. Without sufficient self-growth, the LBS is still using too much energy to keep themselves afloat - and they may not be able to withstand the pressures that reconciliation will bring.
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UK,
I guess that's just it. Perhaps I am confusing Leading the Way and Paving the Way.
But, if your spouse appears out of the blue, like many do, I would like to feel prepared in facing this situation. LBSER'S have written about this situation and that you have to be prepared to lead the way. Unfortunately, they did not elaborate on what they did, specifically, to lead the way.
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I think you need to continue to try to mirror what he does. If he comes to you then you lead the way. But I wouldn't try to push the issue to lead the way. Does that make sense? This time is certainly more difficult on the LBS. Dig down to have as much patience as possible.
At points along the path they peek their heads out of the tunnel and "test" you. These are the times that you need to lead the way. Depending on how you treat your MLC'er when they test you is how they know whether they are welcome or not
Here are statements about leading the way. This is what I am unsure of at this time because there isn't any elaboration regarding leading the way.
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Are these statements from a RCR article or someone's thread?
If it is an article it would be help if we have the name or link to the article.
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These were comments from someone's thread. I am trying to understand what they are saying.
I think there is a time when the mlcer will want to talk. And this is when you must lead the way. Perhaps stay in control, or like MeNow says, to look them in the eye and not be afraid. Or, does it mean that you need to give them a push to keep them moving forward? I'm just not sure.
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In that context I read as guiding the MLCer when they are open to it. For example, when they come to you and want to talk, listen to them and guide them in making good choices. Showing them that it is possible to fix the damage and encouraging them to do so. The thing that you don't want to do is tell them how to do things - they need to figure that out for themselves but you can gently nudge them.
Paving the way is before this. By paving the way you can hopefully get to this point in the process when they want to talk to you.
Did you ask the poster on that thread for clarification?
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I think it's different for men and women. Men like to lead and be respected, women I believe want to feel loved generally speaking. (Allowing) H to lead and showing respect makes him feel like a man.
Unfortunately, by the time our spouses get to the stage they're in, these things don't work until they settle down, which may take years. Showing consistency in this regard over time may pave the way. I know for me I had to lose the fear. I had to get myself on equal footing with W mentally and emotionally after having my confidence shattered. Females aren't attracted to weakness (generally speaking).
Even more so, I had to do it for me to feel like a man again.
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Thanks, S4A. I believe that you are right. It's very clear now.
I am actually in the process of asking the poster. Will hopefully be back with an answer. But, I think you have cleared it up for me.
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Here is what I have learned about Leading the Way.
You, as the LBS, must be a pillar of strength for your spouse as they struggle to add meaning and purpose to their life. Your ability to live your life in a way that is attractive to your struggling spouse will be their anchor to reality.
So, stay calm and patient. Let them work out their issues without your interference. Be an example. It takes a long time for a person to find their way. They will make wrong turns, meet deadends, as they try to find their way. Leave them to it and don't complicate their journey.
Take a look at your own life and make adjustments. Add your own meaning and purpose to your life. Explore those things that you always wanted to, add new hobbies, learn new things. Show your spouse how living authentically with meaning and purpose brings great happiness. Be an example.
Touch your deep and inner self. Be kind to yourself and to others. Be grateful for all the good that you have in your life. Look around and see the beauty your life has to offer. Nourish your soul.
Expand your horizons. Keep on going in a positive direction! One foot in front of the other. If there are things you don't like about yourself, fix them. Try new things, meet new people, grow your life in a positive way.
Let your spouse see what it takes to be a truly happy person. Be a beacon. YOU will have found a lifestyle that is comfortable for you. You will be living your life authentically which will bring you great satisfaction. If your WS does not want the same thing, then why should you want them?
This is what I understand about Leading the Way.
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Very well said MIMIx :)
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Hi Mimi, attaching. There's some really great dialogue going on here! Thank you for sharing!
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BINGO, MIMix! You understand it perfectly. :D
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Be consistent. Gotta be consistent. Move to your own groove. Be authentic, be joyful, get on with living.
I have been doing all of these things and it is truly what we all need to do. Somehow, you have to get beyond the crazy feelings of betrayal and hurt. How is it that one person could cause a person so much hurt and damage to their Self? Well, I am trying very hard to get beyond it. I truly am.
So, I am making some short term plans for my life. It's difficult because it is the middle of winter and life feels a bit restricted by the short days. But it's a great time yo make plans for springtime.
I am planning a photography vacation somewhere lovely. A friend is coming by on the weekend and we will talk about this one. It makes me feel excited after having so much burden in my life as of late. Nothing like a two week getaway to somewhere picturesque.
I am also making plans for my summer place. I cannot wait to return to it. It's a lovely, quiet spot...just me and the birds and the water.
Life has to go on. I am more content now with being alone and it's not sad anymore. It's quite nice to be alone at times...especially at the lake.
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OldPilot,
I have been reading your thread and am very interested in your comments.
You often mention that the LBS needs to 'lead the way'. Would you be able to clarify this term for me?
Best,Mimi
Sorry I did not see this post.
To try to answer your question.
The journeys of the LBS and MLC'er are somehow linked together.
Everything I have read suggests this but I cant tell you scientifically how it would be possible.
We can do nothing to speed up their journeys but we can slow them down.
So if we get stuck, so do they.
Detachment, and moving forward are key.
Getting to a place where their is no anger,
and their is foregiveness.
So we lead the way sometimes by getting out of the way.
We are the stanchions and pillars.
I hope that helps.
I think you have also gotten good responses on this thread.
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The fact that the journeys are somehow linked is interesting and requires further pondering. I have not heard about this. Perhaps they are incapable of finding their own meaning and purpose in life and look to their spouse for guidance, to help show them the way?
It's an interesting thought.
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No, from what I've learnt from 'the middle passage', it is about each partner learning who they are separately. We must start to enjoy our solitude and grow in our second adulthood just like our MLCer.
We are learning the same things as them but hopefully without the running and destruction.
So they might be parallel paths but they could come together again once we have vecome who we are truly meant to be. We must not help them-they have to develop on their own like a teenager does.
It's taken me over a year to get to this point despite everyone's advice and reading the articles-just like them, we need to do it ourselves (but it's so much easier when we have HS knowledge and support)
Xxx
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Its actually fascinating how nature has designed us. In this part of our lives setting us up to cope alone and be an individual and feed our own needs.
Probably to deal with death of our partners who fathered our kids and provided. In years gone by death in the 40's/50's would have been fairly common place.
So is it right that someone should even consider interfering in that or guiding someone towards YOUR way, not theirs. You job is only to be ready to cope alone and take care of the young. If someone chooses to use some of your ideas in that great, but if they don't then you never had that role anyway.
Lead the way as a human being not as a wife, thats undue pressure you place on yourself. I believe that the mlcer will fight your influence and way of life all the way as in their eyes you haven't done them any good this far. They are still broken after you failed them remember.
Forget this and enjoy your own life, you only got one.
Sd
X
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Superdog,
Well said!
L
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I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
MIMIx,
Can you say more about this? I have read that IF MLCers try to reconnect, they typically don't come back showing remorse and spilling out "I'm sorrys." However, I had not heard that they express gratitude.
I ask because when my H asked for the "chance to be in my presence" and meet with me right before Thanksgiving, he said he was at the cemetery of his brother who was hit and killed at the age of 7, and he had really intense thoughts about me, there was white light, and he felt gratitude. He said gratitude wasn't exactly the right word but he really couldn't articulate his experience. I still have no idea what he meant by that. For all I know, he could have just been saying, hey, thanks for the 15 years.
Thanks for starting this discussion, it's really helpful.
WF
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Mimi, I think much of what our discussion is telling us is that we do, indeed, lead the way. However, it is by example. The MLCr seems to be mostly in a teenage mindset. Sometimes they are mature and other times they are childish and rebellious. And ALWAYS they are turned inward. I think our only hope is to catch their eye from time to time for all the right reasons. Like RCR says, grace and agape. Unconditional love.
It's hard! But we have each other for support.
Thanks for posting and generating such beneficial conversation, lady!!
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Females aren't attracted to weakness (generally speaking).
Isn't this the core reason male MLCers run instead of face their depression?
It's the perception that depression = weakness
Being weak, for a man, takes away what he was always taught to be, a man is supposed to be strong, physically and emotionally. Big boys don't cry.
So my understanding of paving the way, is to quietly wait for them to come to us, listen instead of throwing their mistakes into their faces. It might not always seem like it, but I do believe they very much know what they are doing is devastating to all the people in their lives that they promised to love and protect.
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Isn't this the core reason male MLCers run instead of face their depression?
I think the reason any MLCer runs, male or female, is because they're depressed and they interpret that as being unhappy. And they look outside themselves for happiness instead of inside and so they turn to an OP, partying, drugs, alcohol, race cars, anything that brings them some temporary happiness in order to medicate the depression.
Maybe they turn back towards us when they see that we seem to be happy in spite of the massive pain they know they've caused and that's why leading the way is important.
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Yes BIB, in my situation, you are right on.
Wildfire, I am quite sure that if my H returns, he will not vocalize his remorse but he will certainly show it with his actions. I have taken the brunt of the storm driven at me. Many would say "why would you do that?" But, you do what you feel you need to do. Almost two years ago now, my H was ready for a fight, wanted a divorce, wanted to get on with being free. I did not react. I did not fight with him. I bought some TIME until he could settle down the part of his brain that was driving him.I have just stood still and managed my way through with determination. Determination to look after MYSELF. TIME IS KEY in my mind. Stay still, don't argue, don't give advice.
So, yesterday, my H called out of the blue and wanted to come spend the day with me. Funny timing, I was packing up a bunch of his things and putting them away! I just said 'sure' and he appeared so thankful to be able to come home, if only for the day. Here is what I learned from yesterday,
H is now VERY unhappy
His new living arrangements are driving him crazy
He is spinning, trying to adapt, trying to force himself to be happy
His new life sounds dreadful and I'm glad to not be part of it
In the early days, I thought I was the needy one. But I now think that needy can defined on a deeper level. I now think my H is the truly needy one. He is royally screwed up! Chronically needy on a deeper level. He looks to me and others for his happiness. I think this is the reason for him to have gone searching for greener grass. From what I saw and heard yesterday, he is finding the grass to be rather BROWN. Perhaps it is finally starting to sink in. It is just taking TIME. TIME IS KEY.
I feel pretty good this morning. If he makes a decision to not come home, it will all be okay for me. I realized yesterday that I am in a good place. And the ironic thing is, the life he seems to be searching for is the life I am presently living...nice and quiet, stable.
What the h is his problem that he can't see it? Brains and feelings are weird destructive things.
Keep going Forum friends. Live your life with quality. Give him/her time and space to figure it out. It seems to take them a long time. Show them good quality living, filled with happiness. If they don't want that, then you should not want them.
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Wildfire,
I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
This theme came from stories written by WSs who finally figured themselves out. What I took away from their words was that a WS needs to FEEL that you will be open to their return without actually appearing to WANT them, or are deperate for their return. They do now want to feel tricked into coming back to a life that was making them unhappy. And, I do think there is an approriate time to show them this. It is NOT in the early days when all they want to do is run away from you. It is later when they have calmed down and are experiencing disappointments in their new life. You just have to be patient a quiet...let them run and don't stop them.
It is a very fine line.
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Wildfire,
I have read a few returning stories and the common theme is that the MLCer is so very thankful that their wife was always there for them. That the option of return was always open.
This theme came from stories written by WSs who finally figured themselves out. What I took away from their words was that a WS needs to FEEL that you will be open to their return without actually appearing to WANT them, or are deperate for their return. They do now want to feel tricked into coming back to a life that was making them unhappy. And, I do think there is an approriate time to show them this. It is NOT in the early days when all they want to do is run away from you. It is later when they have calmed down and are experiencing disappointments in their new life. You just have to be patient a quiet...let them run and don't stop them.
It is a very fine line.
Mix,
Thank you very much for answering my question...and answering it so well. This is really helpful information. Yes, I have seen with my own H that if he thinks I am just saying whatever to try to get him back, then he backs away. I have not just said "whatever" to try to get him back, but he is so paranoid. The MLCer as a scared animal is an appropriate metaphor. They don't want to be trapped. They'll run if they fear a trap. They have to approach us on their own and feel safe in doing so. They want to see that they are not coming back to the same spouse, the same situation that they left. If we've done our work, they aren't coming back to the same spouse. In fact, they are coming back to a spouse that has moved forward with his/her life.
You're right, it is a very fine line.
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Brain,
This is in a nutshell is a perfect description of the whole MLC process and why they run.
I think the reason any MLCer runs, male or female, is because they're depressed and they interpret that as being unhappy. And they look outside themselves for happiness instead of inside and so they turn to an OP, partying, drugs, alcohol, race cars, anything that brings them some temporary happiness in order to medicate the depression.
MIMIx,
I bought some TIME until he could settle down the part of his brain that was driving him.I have just stood still and managed my way through with determination. Determination to look after MYSELF. TIME IS KEY in my mind. Stay still, don't argue, don't give advice.
This is exactly what I did. I didn't get sucked into the drama. I bought time, by stepping out of the way. I have remained quiet, stable, don't get angry and don't pursue. I am just letting my wife BE. I can't interfere, for this is all about her and her finding out who she is. She is lost and as such, needs to find her self, in her own way. If I was to interfere, I would only hinder the process and cause it to be drawn out, even longer.
We are all born into this world as individuals and as such, we are on our own separate paths, even though we like to think because we are married to them, that we are on the same path. Maybe, but each of us has our own personality, life experiences and issues, which have to be dealt with by ourselves. At any given moment we can be deviated from that shared path and go our separate ways. It doesn't mean that those separate ways will be permanent, but there is a reason that one person can be deviated to another path, that is different from the one that we had been sharing with them.
TIME is the key. Time is to be used by both the LBSer and the MLCer for their own unique purposes. I believe it has been said many times on this forum, that this whole MLC process is a shared event, whether we like it or not. It's a force that can be very destructive or very creative. Look what happens when a volcano erupts, it lays waste to the surrounding countryside, but given TIME, nature has a way of creating a whole new environment out of something that was laid barren.
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I consider leading the way to be livin a good and healthy lifetime yourself and your kids. Lead by example, just like you would with a child. The MLCer is a scared child... Show them you are safe to be around through words, actions and body language. Smile, make eye contact, be quietly confident. The key to all of this for me was letting go of fear. That is when the tables started to turn and I believe w looks at me as the strong one in our situation. You can only lead someone who is willing to follow. The challange for me when opportunities to lead the way do arise is not turning it into pursuing as I try to build her confidence.
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Thanks Mimix for starting this discussion topic. There have been some great replies , in particular neo and my MBIB. I have been down lately questioning if H just isn't interested in his wife and kids and just concerned with himself.
Reading the posts has helped me refocus on the process.
Thx SC
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Forum friends,
Thank you for the great discussion. My understanding of all of this has been expanded enormously.
Here is another topic that has been on my mind. At what point do you think your WS could use some reality truths?
I don't think my H is ready to hear any truths at this point. He is still walking around in a fog. I don't think I have to point out how destructive he has been, he knows it. I'm not sure that making his life more miserable with truths he doesn't want to hear at this time, is the thing to do. I would rather just stay removed and focused on myself and let him figure things out by trial and error.
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Here is another topic that has been on my mind. At what point do you think your WS could use some reality truths?
When the crisis is OVER and their ACTIONS match their words.
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Pretty much what I thought, OP. Though it's tricky to know when the crisis is over. I guess I have yet to experience this.
I think that leaving him up to it, not ruffling his feathers, letting him find his way will be the best thing for now. I'm pretty sure that I will know the right time...and it is not now. the right time, in my mind, will be if/when he becomes a pursuer.
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Wow! A lovely Thursday afternoon surprise! I came home from work to a perfectly cleared driveway and sidewalk. A little surprise by H.
I am not really reading anything into this. But it is just a nice, unexpected surprise that brightened my day.
Thank you, H!
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Looking for thoughts on my present, weird situation...
My H is wallowing. He needs sympathy. He hates his new life. Everyone, everything is against him. He has nothing to his name. I have everything. The folks he is living with are driving him crazy. They will not listen to his advice, no one will. He doesn't like the decisions that his friends make. He thinks they are crazy. The kids do not keep in touch. The whole world is beating up on him.
A stack of his clothing reappeared in our closet.
He still gives me the impression that he is out of our life. He talks about my future as being separate from his. He acts like a guest in our house.
I just keep going...one foot in front of the other. Focus on me. Focus on gaining strength and stepping away from his sorrow. I do not feel sorry for him. These are his decisions.
Is anyone going through the same crazy making stuff? Wow, what a pain this is.
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Let him wallow until it's bad enough that he decides to do something abku his problems. Sounds like you are doing great by focusing on yourself. Keep up the good work.
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WOW, THIS STUFF SUCKS!!!!
Now I realize how important it is to focus on your own happiness. Mlc sucks the joy right out of you.
just when I am getting myself to a good place, feeling that life is good once again, WHAM...he,s back messing with my head and my feelings.
As I said in a previous post, I came home to a nicely cleaned driveway and walk. A surprise by h. He has also done some carpentry work here, spent some time, had some food and relaxation. Then WHAM...he wants to talk about dividing up money. I do understand why he wants this. He is living with a sibling and, being a fussy sort, they don't do things to his liking. ( Funny thing...he complained to me how structured they are...yet, he is the most structured person I know. ) Anyhoo, this is driving him to want to purchase his own place so he can have freedom to do what he wants. Never mind that our house is quiet, he has his widescreen TV, he can do whatever he wants. NO, this would be too perfect.
I've got to get off this rollercoaster ride. I've done lots of detachment work, but when he comes and goes from my life, it is hard to stay sane.
I feel for all of you. This is a very hard process. I don't think I can protect our finances much longer. He doesn't spend foolishly anymore, but we may have to be the owners of another house. Like we need this.
Someday I hope he regrets his poor decisions.
Just getting this all out of my head and hoping for a good day today.
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As far as what can and should be done on our end, I agree with the general consensus of living as if they won't be back, continue focussing on self and family, continue to protect finances, being kind and without expectation, and work on building a life you truly enjoy. Be yourself and not someone you think might attract husband back. Your authentic self will be attractive to someone who shares your values. Your joyful authentic self is the best lighthouse in the fog.
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It all comes back to this. Live your life as if they won't be back.
I feel a bit stuck right now...probably because it is winter. But I know I can do this.
On another note...Does anyone else have this problem of typing the word 'but' and autocorrect decides to be funny and writes 'butt'? Darn autocorrect. You have to be on it all the time.
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Living like they aren't coming back Is the easy part for me. Not looking over my shoulder to see where she is at... That's the hard part imo
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Great thread. Great discussion.
Hooking up.
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Today is my day for some journaling.
I have slightly altered my thinking this week. I am not as concerned about my H and what he is going through right now. I don't worry about my future in terms of not being able to cope on my own. I can. Good feelings are returning and I am no longer dragging myself around. Deep inside, the flame still flickers and I feel a lot of joy in my life regardless of our circumstances. The final piece will be to feel financially free. This I want for my future as I look towards retirement and following my passions. I have a lot of interests.
I'm not sorry for my life. I am feeling quite strong these days. I truly have a GREAT life despite my H making me feel so disrupted these past few years. I've held my head high, have nothing to regret, have become a softer and a better listener for others. I have worked hard to not suffer or hold onto hate. I like good things in my life and do not not make room for others who like to live on the dark side.
So, I feel pretty good. I am a bit wobbly over my financial future as I still do not want to forfeit half of our assets. We've worked so hard for these days and now it has all come to this. But hey, onward and upward. At least I have assets and not liabilities.
I sure hope these feelings last. i think this is the first time that I can say that the month of February feels good. I am looking forward to all the GREAT things that spring will bring...longer days, more sunshine, happier people.
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So this morning I decided to finally check in to see what the MAN CAVE is all about.
Although open to all, male and female, I choose to not post on this site. For me, it as an exclusive site for men to openly express themselves. I appreciate areas where women can also express their thoughts freely, without male interjection.
My heart is warmed to hear many men openly express, in their own way, their caring for their families. I respect that there are differences between men and women. This is what I think makes a marriage so valuable. This is how we complement each other. My H is not a bad man. He is a good man who has let his life go off the rails, had a major meltdown, and it will take him time to find his way back...if he does find his way back. I am very unhappy that this has happened but am confident that he will be back to his old self one day, with or without me.
I also just want to say that I understand the concept STFU and its importance to men. It is often the last straw and I will admit that I sometimes feel the same way. A person has to learn some self control and to pay attention to it.
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MM-
I agree that MLC has taught me to be a better person in so many ways. I can relate to your post below:
I'm not sorry for my life. I am feeling quite strong these days. I truly have a GREAT life despite my H making me feel so disrupted these past few years. I've held my head high, have nothing to regret, have become a softer and a better listener for others. I have worked hard to not suffer or hold onto hate. I like good things in my life and do not not make room for others who like to live on the dark side.
This may not be true but sometimes it feels like H is mad at me for growing and becoming a fun, happy person again.
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Last summer my wife seemed resentful of my ability to do pretty much whatever I decide I want to do. I know she doesn't feel she has that ability. I've wondered if the OM is attractive to her because she doesn't have to feel inferior when she's with him although I never did anything to make her feel inferior when she was with me. Her attitude took me by surprise because she had always seemed proud of me. And she did tell me after BD that I was always a good provider. And with the divorce laws in this state being what they are I will have the opportunity to continue to be a good provider even if she finalizes this divorce that she started.
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My H is not a bad man. He is a good man who has let his life go off the rails, had a major meltdown, and it will take him time to find his way back...if he does find his way back. I am very unhappy that this has happened but am confident that he will be back to his old self one day, with or without me.
MIMIX,
This is what helps me to keep all of this in perspective. I have to remind myself of this daily. My wife is not a bad person, she has went off the path that we were both walking, onto her own path, for the moment. This is also a clear reminder to me, that we are all on our own separate paths of life, yet we mourn the loss of our travelling companion, our spouse, because they deviated onto a very treacherous path, filled with danger and potential destruction. A path that we look down and find very frightening and would not knowingly traverse, yet they seemed to have went willingly.
Yet, we know something is terribly wrong with our spouses for them to have chosen such a dangerous way. The way they have been altered into a person we don't recognize, someone who has turned against us in everyway. We know this isn't who they truly are, we know the true person and long for that person to reveal themselves to us, alas, they have been taken captive by the person who now controls them, their Shadow. The person they have hidden from us, the person they have repressed all of their lives. This person has escaped the repression to reign down destruction everyway imaginable and cause such unthinkable pain and suffering onto us, that there are days we don't feel like we can go on.
We hold onto hope, which lights our way, that our wayward spouse will return to us. The person that we have always known. The person, we know would never hurt us. The person, who loves us, deeply and passionately. But, we find ourselves having to continue on our journey, alone, yet, holding out hope, that they will return, not only in body, but in mind, heart and soul, renewed and ready to love us in a greater way than we could ever imagine.
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I couldn't have written what Neo did but I completely agree with it. This is why I continue to look at photos and videos of my wife. Because I don't want to forget the person she was and let my distaste for the person she has become cause me to miss out when/if she becomes a better version of the person she used to be.
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Today, I feel like posting a song.
It is not a sexist thing. Just some encouragement and truths for my forum sisters.
Its an oldie but a goodie:
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Gpu_PV3BTfI
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My thought is, that my personal strength is part of the problem and not part of a solution. I married Mr. Opposite.
I think that my personal strength is a trait that H DISLIKES in me. My strength reminds him of his weaknesses. My happiness translates to his unhappiness. When I have successes, he feels that he has failures. I think this is why he left in the first place. He finally buckled under the pressure of feeling unworthy. Although I feel badly, I don't think that I should give up my well adjusted ways of living, just to make him feel superior. This is where Old Pilot's words rang so true...I didn't break it, I cannot fix it.
So, I'm thinking that being strong and together is leading the way for me only. As far as leading the way for H, I just have to be a good listener and a supportive friend until he figures himself out.
Comments welcome because this is pretty crazy-making.
I hope you don't mind me touching on this even though the thread has moved on from it in the last few days. but I think it's like this for us, too.
My d(13)actually mentioned it to me the other day when I was under the sink replacing the garbage disposal. She actually said she wondered if Dad found it difficult to live with someone who was so good at doing everything. (I'm not, btw, just patient, determined, and too cheap to hire a plumber), and I told her not to think to hard about mine and Dad's R because grown-up R are more complicated and messy than she can possibly imagine and that he's just messed up right now, but still loves her and will get better eventually.
So he goes looking for a younger, weaker, less capable woman to make him feel like a man, is it my failing? I don't think it would have made a difference, if I were weaker he would've faulted me for being too weak, I imagine. I didn't break it, I cannot fix it.
I also think that part of the reason we got together in the first place and had such a strong relationship was due in part to that very same strength providing a grounding influence to his emotional ebb and flow.
Anyway, it's a good thing I am so capable, because I will be doing all the things all alone now indefinitely, from what I can tell.
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MsT,
Wow!! Nice that you are able to change out your garbage disposal by yourself!! I am sure you will discover that you have many hidden talents that you are fully capable of doing.
Many LBSer's ask that same question, were we too strong and able to handle anything that was thrown at us, which made the MLCer feel less worthy? That is not for us to worry about. That shows that the MLCer had a self-esteem issue, which caused them to feel inferior to us or think that we had more capabilities than they did. Another factor is that they have been depressed, for awhile, which has caused their loss of identity and their self-esteem to tank. Their loss of self-esteem and depression is exactly what has lead them to seek out someone inferior to them. so that they can get a self-esteem boost and a quick hit of adrenaline, which causes their depression to subside.......temporarily.
I like what you said, "you didn't break it and you can't fix it." Absolutely correct, none of us broke our MLCer's, they were already broken, but hid it very well from everyone. We didn't cause this in them and we can't fix it, they have to.
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Way to go MsT installing the new garbage disposal! I have also tried my hand a few things and discovered that I'm pretty handy too!
I just want to say that life is looking really good from my perspective. TIME is the key...FOR SURE. At least it is in my case. I feel that the tables have turned for me. My happiness is definitely back after having gone missing for quite a while. The key to this was FOCUSSING ON MYSELF AND MY OWN HAPPINESS. Doing things, trying new things, being with my kids and friends, KEEPING QUIET around my H and just leaving him be. I am now very sure that he had some deep cravings for greener grass...bored with his current life...selfishly wondering what it would be like to be free from marriage. I know that he is now finding out that the grass is not greener. I AM QUITE SURE OF THIS. He is now trying hard to be back in the family, keeping in touch daily, doing nice things for all of us. We continue to just LEAVE HIM BE. We continue to include him, we answer all his calls, we treat him nicely, he is pretty much with us daily...but we are all quite DETACHED. If he goes, I will not be so affected. NOPE!
On the other side, I may have it wrong and he may think this is the new reality...a nice family and freedom too. Time will tell. But it feels as if he is now realizing that other people lives are very different than he had expected. I think he is now realizing that he likes the way his family operates. I may be totally wrong but I think I see a big change happening here. And if not, I am at the point where I am okay with any outcome. Life has once more become very exciting for me, and I look forward to my future.
It feels very, very good to not harbour anger or hate. My H has not been as despicable as some but he has said and done some very hurtful things. I could easily have carried these awful feelings with me. But, I don't. I just don't. It's not worth it.
TIME IS KEY. LAY LOW AND KEEP QUIET. NO ARGUING. NO ANGER. GET ON WITH YOUR OWN LIFE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
I Just want to share my approach and that I feel it has a good outcome no matter which way it goes.
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Glad to hear you're happiness is back! It's not about what life throws at you, it's about what you do with it when you get it, I guess.
Thanks for the props on the garbage disposal. I've never been one to back down from a challenge, and I guess that helps me stand. This is a really dang effed up challenge, though, watching my help-meet being devoured inside out by his own personal demons while he wrecks everthing in his path like tasmanian devil on meth.
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journaling,
This morning I decided to go back over my posts from the past...just to see my own journey. I'm not really shocked to find, but am rather surprised by, all the ups and downs...over and over. the yo-yo effect. I have also learned that, many times, I have really not been able to truly express myself in words. I guess this is all par for the course.
I can say that being in limbo is both difficult and easy at the same time. Difficult because your future is so uncertain, easy because it gives you time...precious time.
Apart from my current situation with H, I also have so much other noise in my life. It's such a burden! Elderly parents needing help, moving them out of their homes, finding long term care, kids having families, moving them out of their homes to bigger homes...feels endless. Where the heck is Freedom 55?
So, I'm trying to methodically work my way through it all, one issue at a time. Crossing them off my list as I go along. It's so hard to be patient. And, of course, everything takes TIME. I know that my life will be so much better when i don't have all of these things to deal with any longer.
Is anyone else facing this kind of thing? Do you feel the same way as me?
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MeNow...where's our song of the day?
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Forum friends,
im looking for advice tonight.
My H has been away for a bit. I was hoping that he would return with a fresh outlook on life. Nope. He's frustrated with his present situation and just wants to divide our assets. He wants to buy his own place. he does not want to come home.
I really don't want to split up our stuff. I still regard our things as OURS. I've tried so hard to protect our money and our home. Splitting our things is a HUGE fear for me.
Does anyone have any advice as to how I should handle this? Is it as hard to do as I am thinking? Should I just throw caution to the wind and let it all go...get it over with?
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Most people here advise let him do the heavy lifting. If he wants out make him do the work. Ignore him.
You can take control and if you want to consult a lawyer for a legal separation. Protect yourself financially.
Or you can keep dealing with him and the fear of what he's going to do next.
Sounds like you have an awful lot on your plate already.
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I do have a lot on my plate In It. I've never had so much to deal with. I'm being buried alive.
I like your advice of letting him do the heavy work. I've been trying to ignore him. I just don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. Do I just keep saying "no, I don't agree" to everything?
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journaling,
I know that my life will be so much better when i don't have all of these things to deal with any longer.
Is anyone else facing this kind of thing? Do you feel the same way as me?
I don't have to deal with any of that any more. It was horrible when I was going through it. My sister and my brothers all moved away so I was the primary contact for my parents. Now the kids are gone, wife is gone, Mom passed in 2003, Dad passed in 2008. Recently I keep thinking I should call them. Haven't had that happen for several years. Life is really simple now. And empty. Mostly empty.
I really don't want to split up our stuff. I still regard our things as OURS. I've tried so hard to protect our money and our home. Splitting our things is a HUGE fear for me.
I'm going through the same thing. And since my wife moved out I'm the one in the house with all of the stuff and I still use it regularly. Lately I've been thinking I should burn everything to the ground. Which would be ironic because I was hired 23 years ago to replace a guy who went to jail because he was going through a divorce and burned his house to the ground. History repeats itself. Hopefully I can learn from history and not end up in jail.
I'll be following along to see if anyone has any more practical ideas.
I just realized I'm not exactly a bundle of sunshine tonight. Sorry. Blame it on the depression. :)
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I do have a lot on my plate In It. I've never had so much to deal with. I'm being buried alive.
I like your advice of letting him do the heavy work. I've been trying to ignore him. I just don't know how much longer I can keep doing this. Do I just keep saying "no, I don't agree" to everything?
If you don't agree, then just keep telling him that. Yes, let him do the heavy work. Do what feels best and right for YOU. If he is dragging his feet but you get to place where you need to protect yourself legally or financially then you may need to file for legal separation or divorce.
Know this: His MLC is like a freight train going down the tracks. Part of him doesn't want to be on that train and another part is sucking him onto it like being sucked into a vortex. There is nothing you or he can do to stop it. And if you try to stop it, you will only end up getting run over by the train. Step aside and let the train go by. The sooner you can let him go, the sooner you will gain your sanity back. He will try everything he can and ping pong back and forth to try to find happiness. He will likely destroy everything before he hits rock bottom. This will get worse before it gets better. I am sorry to sound so pessimistic but I am just presenting reality.
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Just ignore him he'll get the message. If he wants to get it started let him do it. Mostly they don't because they don't want to look like the "bad guy"
But do NOT allow him to abuse you or drive you nuts about you doing it.
You have more important things to focus on then what he currently wants. The friggin world doesn't revolve around him.
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Mbib,
I'm sorry that your life feels empty. It's so awful, isn't it?
You just have to pick yourself up and do something about that. Get a plan for happiness. Don't rely on others to help you out. Do it yourself, for yourself.
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In It,
i think you are right. Press the ignore button..."sorry, too busy with the important things in my life...like my mom and the kids".
He is frustrated because he's been roaming around lost for two years. Of course, he says he doesn't have a place to live because we have not settled our stuff. It's an excuse.
He is going on ignore...BECAUSE THE FRIGGIN WORLD DOESNT REVOLVE AROUND HIM. LOL
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There you go..it's HIS problem. You have enough of your own ((HUGS AND PRAYERS!!)))
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Go NC and step away from the crazy.
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Thanks, in it. Much appreciated.
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Hi MIMIx
After BD before I found this site and learned about MLC I was like "Right, let's divide up the spoils RIGHT NOW!!!"
But he dragged the chain like you wouldn't believe. He never even came and got his clothes. He did have a lot of his personal possessions elsewhere, but he never lifted a finger to come and get the rest. I dumped everything at his mother's house over a 3 month period.
Since last August he's been saying "we need to sort out the business and decide what we do with it. Let's have a meeting." Everytime we have set a date for this "meeting" he either breaks it or just wants to have dinner and talk about anything BUT our shared business and assets!
The truth is he doesn't want to finalise anything. Good confirmation that he hasn't actually left the R, but is indeed in MLC.
There are many examples of this on the threads, and your H will probably follow script.
I agree - just ignore him for now and see what happens. Be ready to jump, but not yet.
;)
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My H left 18 months ago and I still have everything of his except some clothes and one of his guitars. His Mustang is still on the drive.
He hasn't told the kids he's left them either (as he lives away and works abroad)
This ain't no normal break up!
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This ain't no normal break up!
You're darn tootin', Hmmm!!!
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Stop tootin' Hmmm!
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Well almost two years later the ex still has all of my things. And unless I return with the troopers that's where they'll stay.
Far be it from me to want to create any drama. ::)
In my case he wanted me gone. Most of my things were already packed in boxes due to the house being on the market.
He had the opportunity to load it all up and bring it to me. What's up with that? Too friggin lazy to get out of his own way I guess.
If I'd been him I would have put them outside told me to come get them and be dong a happy dance.
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I don't know why this stuff gets me so upset. He's done this before. And he hasn't taken one bit of anything with him or pursued any talks... I have to remind myself that he is not usually a man of action.
The hard thing is the mixed message that he delivers. One day he is in, the next he is out. It makes my head spin. This is the best reason for focusing on yourself and your own happiness. Your life can literally be sucked right out of you if you let it.
I also don't know why splitting our stuff gets me in such a tizzy. It doesn't seem to bother others like it bothers me. Its probably fear driven. I don't want to give up my life comforts.
Thank you to all above for your support. I hope that i can pay it forward.
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That's why it may be time for YOU to make the decision and take control of your own life, happiness, and situation.
If you try to wait around for them to make a decison it will suck the life out of you. The goal for them is to keep you engaged and in a tailspin.
I wasn't going to play games and have him bring a box here or there to get my things back. I had to consider a domestic violence incident. He would have dragged that out for as long as possible.
So I slammed the door on getting anymore of my things back if it ALL couldn't be delivered in a timely manner.
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In it,
I think I have more control than I give myself credit. I have tremendous personal support from my great kids, my family, my coworkers. I have great hobbies too. My health is good too.
The things I am struggling with are all the extra things happening in my life...my poor mom, longterm care, her house sale etc. Its been really taxing. I just keep up with the self- love talk...keep smiling, be happy, be grateful. It all will pass.
In it, I am sorry that you cannot get some of your things. But, i can understand that it may not be worth the aggravation of opening it all up again. I guess once my h takes stuff and his share of the money, I may actually feel relief. Life won't be the same, but I will rebuild. I just have to believe the Universe has bigger plans for me.
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That's what you have to do..stay postive.
In many ways it's worked out for me. Many friends donated things and I have rededicated the older things. It has helped me forget old bad memories and helped create new ones.
I don't have much left from that old life. I do wish I had some of the sentimental things that cannot be replaced..but I simply will not deal with him to get them. He also has handguns.
It took me 4 months to get my personal papers back..I threatened a court order for them. By then I had copies made of everything.
I can pretty much assure you it will be a RELIEF to end that part of the craziness.
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So, today I've braced myself for a visit from my H. He hasn't shown up or called. A bit of a relief for me.
To go backwards a bit to mid February ,
H left the city to go and visit the kids.
He called me from the halfway mark to let me know where he was and that his drive was going well.
H called on the morning of Valentines Day.
H has not called since.
Returned back to our city.
Told kids he wants to immediately divide up our stuff and then take off with his friend.
Oh, my aching head. I have no words.
Today I expected H in my driveway...bright and early.
Nope.
Hasn't called, hasn't come by.
I called to retain a lawyer today...$395/hr...no free consult.
will keep her in my back pocket until I need her. Nobody is siphoning money off me like that.
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There you go. Half the time they will not show up.
Now don't call or text or anything and the next time he tries to do this do not respond. Don't answer the phone don't text back NOTHING. Take him out of the equation and breathe.
There's no other lawyer you can find with a free consult?
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In it,
Actually, I rarely call or text him at all. No worries there. Sometimes I wonder if this is a good or bad thing. I just don't know. He normally really likes to feel connected. I have a photo that I would like to share with him one day soon...when it seems right. Just a cute grandchild photo.
I hate to guess, and I promised myself I wouldn't do it, but I think he felt he had to leave the kids place because he was there too long, and then was feeling miserable to have to go back to his other,,old temporary place. Frustrated with his situation.
If he shows up asking, I'm just going to say that im not interested in dividing up our stuff. It's very complicated and I don't feel like doing it. That's it.
I watch the banking very closely. If I notice spending, I will pull it all out very quickly and invest it in locked-in stuff.
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Does he just randomly show up without letting you know first?
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No. He calls first. He is extra extra polite too...like a very nice guest. Seriously! It's all just a game, I think. What he does do, is come here while I am at work. And he always leaves a kind callIng card...like mowing the lawn/snowblowing the driveway...bringing the bins back from the curb...Crazymaking.
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Of course it is..he's trying to keep you off balance.
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Hello Forum friends
Today, its all about empowerment.
I've lived the storm of having a MLC spouse. I know what it is like to face uncertainty every day, the pain, the turmoil. Its okay to work your way through all the emotions. This is the way through to the other side.
I have worked so hard to KEEP ON MOVING. I have had support when times have been tough. There is still lots of uncertainty in my life. But, do you what? It will all be okay. I can feel it. I am TAURUS. I am going to put my head down and crash my way right through the middle of this.
Have a listen if you wish
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtnxsIBVm5s
All the best,
Mimi
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Hello Forum friends,
I guess Spring brings sunshine, new life, and renewal. I can feel it.
I feel that my Spring has brought me a lot of personal change...a lot of growth and reflection on the goodness in my life...just as it is. I guess being swamped with problems forces you to pause and reflect on this goodness. Turns out, my life is exactly the way I want it. I do not need to change it because it's great, just as it is. In my opinion, its all about how you define satisfaction.
My H seems to be in the same process of defining his own satisfaction. It may not look the same as my definition, and that's okay. We do not have to live by someone else's standards if they don't make us happy. He will eventually find the right fit for himself. If we put our life back together, we will have to negotiate these definitions and find a suitable answer...one that works for both of us. If not, life is still good.
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Attaching
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Today has been a good day. I was finally able to sell my moms house. It is sad to see the end of a truly happy era, but I am so relieved to not have to look after it any longer. It has been empty for a couple of years and the love had faded away with the death of my dad and the moving of my mom to a place with greater personal care. All good things must pass...
For all who are interested, I see my H a lot these days. Things have been very good. I cannot say what kind of relationship we have right now. It feels very normal, like we are still married. Yet, he doesn't live at home. Sometimes I think it feels like a brother/ sister friendship. Whatever it is, I can say that I feel very good ...nice and strong emotionally. And that's what counts right now!
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Holy Hannah! I've had a rude awakening and probably needed it.
I mistakenly told my H how much hardship I have faced these past two years. How I have been hurting in so many ways. THIS INFORMATION MADE HIM VIBRATE WITH HAPPINESS. I think he has wanted me to suffer! WOW I had no idea. He is officially nuts. Why would anyone hate you, be so jealous of you, that they would be happy to hear that you have suffered?
Well, I was upset...for about two minutes. Now I think it's funny. This seems to be the thing I have needed to push me over the edge. And, I won't be falling either. This has given me more resolve to improve my life for ME. He can try to beat on my emotional doors but it just makes me feel stronger.
No more sympathy, no more kindness. No anger, no feelings at all. I'm turning my back and walking in a new direction. No one needs this betrayal.
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THIS INFORMATION MADE HIM VIBRATE WITH HAPPINESS.
Wow. That sucks. Sometimes I want to unload all my pain and sorrow and the kid's pain and sorrow on mine, but I have a feeling that either this would happen or I would get an absolute denial of responsibility and yelled at that he wouldn't have had to do this if only I had "blah blah wah wah wah."
The good thing that came out of it is your strengthened resolve to thrive, though!
(hug)
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It does suck in a way MsT, but has pretty much shown me how far away he really is right now.
IVe just GOT to put him away for a while and do my own thing. This has become easier for me now.
I'm just really, really baffled why he continues to shoot himself in the foot with others, burn his bridges etc. I don't think he is even aware that he is doing this. No one tells him. They come and tell me. Geez
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This is what I've been thinking about today. I still don't get it. D31 doesn't want to have anything to do with my wife, GD13 who was always with her before BD has more or less dismissed her, she thinks her sisters hate her, yet there's no sign that she's questioning what she's doing.
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Why do the MLC-ers want to know that we've been punished? Any ideas, anyone?
I get that they think we're the root of the problem, but you'd think that just leaving us would be enough? Why the cat-o-nine-tails? And the fifty lashes...? :o
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UKStander> perhaps misery loves company.
My H is definitely not all there. This latest bunch of nonsense may just be the cycling in and out with no real action in the end. He's been there before. Time will tell. Certainly, I am enabling his behaviour at this point. I thought it was important in the beginning, to build trust back up (and still do) but now he is just taking advantage of me.
I'm putting him on ignore. I'm very able to do this. Put him away for a while and look out for myself. Life is a bit lonely but I'm doing well.
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Why do the MLC-ers want to know that we've been punished? Any ideas, anyone?
I get that they think we're the root of the problem, but you'd think that just leaving us would be enough? Why the cat-o-nine-tails? And the fifty lashes...? :o
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I have wondered this myself, my walk-away husband of 20 years left me and our daughter almost 4 years ago. He rarely sees our D18, he walked out with his younger OW in tow when D was just 14..he has still to this day done nothing but berate me. I have raised our D alone for the last 4 years while he parties with young strippers with tattoos, and puts it on Facebook!! I believe from what I have read, it's a combination of them projecting their own self-loathing onto us, combined with them being in a crisis that they do not know any way out of (often due to unresolved family of origin issues). Surely it must be an ugly, sad place to be.
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I was told to expect the unexpected and now I see why. He's turned so smug and defiant toward me, so judgemental, so awkward. He is a mystery man.
I actually thought he would improve by year 2. Do they get worse with time...especially around this 2 year mark? I wonder if he is blaming me for his present fed up, unhappy feelings? I know that I feel this way. He wants his way and he wants it now.
So what comes next? Let the fun begin.
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The misery loves company thing sounds right. Like "how dare you be happy after ruining my life by painting the basement that awful blue?!?!?"
Mine seems to be doing the thing where his people aren't supporting his choices so he's looking for other people who will. That bugs me, but at the same time, knowing that his first-choice friends and family support our relationship and family instead of this dumbness makes me feel better.
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I can totally understand that, MsT. We also have some great friends, but H chooses to spend time with the friends that none of us like. And, he is trying to stuff them down our throats,make us like them. We all want to vomit when he begins talking about them and all the wonder things they do...gag me.
I think my h is getting impatient. He isn't happy where he is living...again...
He cant live with me, can't live with his family, can't live with our kids, can't live with his friends. What's next? Perhaps, cant live with himself ?
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I believe from what I have read, it's a combination of them projecting their own self-loathing onto us, combined with them being in a crisis that they do not know any way out of (often due to unresolved family of origin issues). Surely it must be an ugly, sad place to be.
Yep - this is the way that I see it.
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It is likely his self loathing being projected my way. What I now ask myself is, do I want to keep allowing this betrayers behaviour to affect me in such negative ways?
I've done some hard thinking and I'm seeing that my life is actually very good without my H. Most times I'm happy living on my own. I am gradually reconnecting with my inner spirit and feeling a lot of happiness as I move through my life from day to day. There is a lot of freedom when you do not have to always be thinking of someone else's needs. It's very hard to break free of what has become your perceived NORMAL in life. But it's worth taking a hard look at where you are and where you really should be.
So, I'm busy setting some goals for myself. One goal is to stop thinking about what others want from me and start thinking about what I want from myself. My other goal is pursue some interests that are long overdue. I've actually done this by taking up new hobbies but I'm working on some new stuff. I have picked up some books that interest me and am setting aside one hour per day to take myself to another place and time through reading. It's all very exciting. I'm exploring things I probably would never have done without this crisis.
Life is taking me in a new direction. I'm picking up where I left off many, many years ago. This crisis of my husband just may be turning out to be a GREAT thing for me. I'm really starting to see it this way. It's been a very, very hard process but I can see the light. It's there for me. It's up to me to chase it.
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There are a few reasons I could see for the MLCer to be happy we were miserable:
1) As others have said, they hurt so bad, they want to know that other people hurt like that.
2) At that time, the narcissistic tendencies have taken over and they need for someone else to be down so they can feel up. They feel a "win".
3) They want to feel like they were missed. Like they really DID count for something because they feel like they count for nothing.
4) They feel like they still have a chance to come back if you were that miserable without them.
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Agreed on a points, Offroad. I saw it in person. It was shocking but a big wake up for me. He was so, so happy to hear that I had been so hurt and that my life has been really hard. Never again Offroad...never again.
So, H vanished for a couple of weeks...off helping his friends with a building project. But, he's reappeared and has offered me his help here at the house. For the first time ever, I turned down his offer , thanked him and said I hoped to see him at one of our family functions. That's it. It actually felt good to say it. It wasn't nasty or anything, just a polite rejection. No stomach butterflies, no regret.
Omg ladies. I just want to say that I love cutting the lawn! I cannot wait to get home from work to cut the lawn. It's a great stress buster after a day in the office and it looks so darn nice when it's all done. im not a big fan of grass, but it looks nice when it's all trimmed.
I'm hoping that I can say I'm coming out the other side. Being single no longer fills me with shame and fear. I do things now without even thinking of my H. And, thinking about him is a more comfortable feeling now. It doesn't give me stomach upset like before.
I've read that WSs try to control things and I believe this is quite true. I can feel my h's attempts to control me, the kids and his friends. it can come across badly at times. Yet, I understand that he is simply trying to get a grip on his spinning life. So be it.
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I spent the day with hubby this past weekend. He comes to all family celebrations. He has no problem walking in and then walking out. He doesn't contribute much...acts like an invited guest rather than family. Really, he has a lot of nerve. Early on, shortly after BD, he told me that leaving me took a lot of courage and he saw it as being a very brave thing. Sure...coward.
So, at the party, I was able to have a good look at him and his behaviour. His behaviour is key . What I saw was just more of the same...talking himself up, bragging about what he is doing, not interested or listening to anything others had to say.
I'm feeling thankful that I don't have to live within this day and night. Our kids have tried to accommodate him but are COMPLETELY exasperated. It hurts knowing that your kids think their father is a jerk. Sorry kids, your mom married a jerk and let him be your father. It especially hurts because our kids are so smart, so capable in their lives, such great citizens. And they have to see a pompous ass father drifting off with his friends, the party animal looking for freedom to act like a rebellious teenager.
Surely we deserve more in our life than this.
I'm working hard to move myself along and out of this stupid drama. Im actually not IN his drama any longer, But I'm still embarrassed by The things he does and this tells me I'm still feeling attachment. I don't want to feel any reflection of him on me.
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I sometimes think we need to lead the way by example. If the MLCer wants to be a jerk, we don't have to play. We don't have to accept their interpretation of events, we don't have to allow them to be disrespectful of us. The kids see this and respond in their own way, as we are leading the way for them as well, showing them by our actions how we allow people to treat us.
You can drop the rope now, MIMix. Everything your H does is on him. One of the things I learned is that my H's behavior has always been on him. I just took responsibility? justified? explained away? his behavior in the past. Not any more. Nor will I let his behavior dictate mine.
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Offroad,
Good grief! There's nothing more to say. I'm speechless.
Yes, I can drop the rope. In fact, I can throw it. Throw it as far as possible.
Leading, by example, is good. I pretty much try to do this every day in my life.
I think I will go and read my book about the Roman Republic.
That's all. Cya
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Following along MiMix. This is a wonderful discussion you are having here. Loving it. Watching all of you growing and accepting your part of this mess and only your part. Leaving your spouses to own and wear their own mess. So good to see.
Looking forward to meeting you later this fall I hope.
Hugs Stayed
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Hi Stayed,
I'm at home with the flu today. Figures. Misery loves company.
Thanks for being such a great support to everyone here. You have a heart of gold.
You know what? I believe, 100%, that he will be back. Crazy? Maybe. But I truly believe he will reappear when I'm at the end of all of this, when I least expect or want it. This is how it works, isn't it? Then the fun begins once again.
For now, I'm going to stop all the heavy work. I'm going to relax and go on vacation. I'm going to spend some of my hard earned cash and treat myself. I read this somewhere > Is your husband having a midlife crisis? Well, what you have to do is relax, get your nails done, go out with your friends...basically what we all know as GAL. It's probably one of the first things I read and is still the best advice.
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I couldn't agree more MiMix! Let him go. Take back your life and start living it! If he returns just when you really would prefer he didn't, you can decide at that time. If he never returns, you will still be RIGHT AS RAIN because you will have rebuilt your life, so it really won't matter.
Sorry you aren't feeling well. The Flu sucks... uggh.
Hugs Stayed
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Letting go. Such a simple concept, yet so difficult to put in place. I know it's the thing to do and my ultimate goal. I like being reminded of it, over and over. It's the only way to come to terms with the loss. I know that I will get there. It's not even about him anymore. He is gone. It's about me. Letting go is about me facing this rejection and the fear of moving forward alone. Its something that a person cannot fully understand until it happens to them. It's very hard. Letting go, dropping the rope...it's not the end of the world.
I ran into a beautiful woman the other day. She is about forty and has recently lost her husband to cancer. They did not have any children. We had a nice conversation. We have many things in common and she is dealing with an awful lot of pain. Yet, she seems to be building a plan for her future. She is in the process of moving to a brand new house that is just being built. She says it is the beginning of a fresh start. I was so impressed that she was making such a personal move forward. She has given me something to think about.
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It really is hard to let go. I don't think we realize that every single one of us has to LET GO! I have to let go of the pain of this event. Being back with my h is a constant reminder of it. Topping it all off, there is this constant reminder of what we "could have lost", if he had not found his way through the fog.
Without a doubt, this will never be FORGOT... impossible! I am slowly coming to the realization that 100% forgiveness is unlikely as well. It's not that I don't want to, I truly do, but there are so many LAYERS! I can't believe how huge this thing really was.
I feel really good where I am now. There is an awareness that I must have ignored most of my life, that seems to keep me in a constant state of "gratitude". Yea, just glad to be alive! Glad to be able to SMILE again. Glad to be feeling joy, peace, tranquility. Without a doubt, Time heals all things.
It'll happen MIMIx... :)
Hugs Stayed
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I agree that 100% forgiveness is unachievable. And does it have to be 100%Forgiveness? Not many things make it to the category of 100%.
Like you, I had no idea of the size of this thing. It took a lot of reading for me to realize the serious depth of our situation. I don't listen to anything he says right now because it's all made up nonsense. I think back to the original things he told me. These are the truthful bits of information. "He's never had the chance to do things for himself, care only for himself...that I gave him a lot of confidence and that I'm a really good person but he needs to do this." It's the typical story of missing his youth and now experiencing it before it's too late.
So, how do you forgive someone who has stepped out and taken such a risk at the expense of his family? I thought I could forgive, that I had forgiven him. But I don't think so now that I've done a lot of reflecting. It's such a betrayal. I don't think he even understands.
Now I see all these little games being played. It was just me who saw it at first but now some of the kids see it too. We had a big family party the other day. H arrived and went around INSISTING on giving each of us a big hug (like we must have missed him so much) and saying "hello xxxx, it's so good to see you." All delivered with phony sincerity. It was all planned and scripted. And, I thin it's all about CONTROL. As long as he is in control of his situation, his plans are going along just fine. D2 was onto him. When she got the hug, she was very busy with something else. He wouldn't let her go. She finally had to say " Yes Dad, but can't you see that I'm in the middle of something right now? Save it for later" and then stormed off shaking her head. Heeheehee. I wish I was as strong as her. I really need some lessons!!
Then post party>. I look at all the photos sent to me and on the kids photo streams ...every single photo of me has H standing next to me. WTH? Every single one of them. It's just no good to even try to think of why. It just IS what it is.
Stayed, I think it's time for some tough love. I think it's time for me to muster up the strength I've built and give it a try. I've given away my power, haven't I? I 've let my power drain away.. I need to take this back...just for me. Knock away some of that control that's giving him so much comfort. It's time for me to step out and take some risk. I don't think I have much to lose.
What do you think?
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Stayed, I think it's time for some tough love. I think it's time for me to muster up the strength I've built and give it a try. I've given away my power, haven't I? I 've let my power drain away.. I need to take this back...just for me. Knock away some of that control that's giving him so much comfort. It's time for me to step out and take some risk. I don't think I have much to lose.
What do you think?
Oh yes my friend, it is definitely time... Tough love, hell, I actually think of that as SELF LOVE... YOU MATTER... let him go. Until he realizes that he is ENOUGH just as he is, he isn't worth having. Same goes for us... WE ARE ENOUGH and what's more, we are not AFRAID to try to be more... just for ourselves... not him, not our kids... just for little old us!
Without a doubt girl, what do you have to lose, he might leave you? Oh wait... "he already has!" Bye bye old hubby. Whatever relationship you have in the future MIMIx, with or without your hubby, it will be "brand new"! No fear!
hugs Stayed
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self love...YES. It IS self love and I matter.
I've had an important realization. I don't know where it will take me. I don't know exactly where I will end up. I have no anger. I can see how my h's midlife crisis set itself up. He is responsible, but not really to blame. I can see that he tried to fight it and stay, but lost the battle in the end. You can't fight your deep inner voice, you will eventually lose. You can only fight for so long.
Today, I see him fighting to hang on to us while maintaining his distance. He can't come back...he doesn't want to. He's dreamed of being free for so long. He has risked too much to get here. He has to see if this other life is the happiness he has longed for, for so long. But he loves and still wants his family. He doesn't want to lose us.
This is my realization.
I now see that my h has long carried feelings of regret for the loss of freedom in his early years...his youth. H loves his family, h loves me, but does NOT carry the same devotion to all of us that I do. To top it all off, he spent 35 years working in a mysogynistic office...an office of men demeaning their wives and complaining about the ball and chain life they lead. In those early years, he laughed at how ridiculous these older complainers were, how arrogant they were. It's kind of funny that he turned out just like them in the end. The regret for his sad life built over the later years, coworkers supporting his fantasy...feelings festering deep inside. "If only I hadn't gotten married, I would be so much happier".
Never mind that our life was filled with the best that anyone could hope for. We had money, a home, a summer home, enviable children who did not cause us a moment of grief, all now functioning adults with professional lives. Perhaps this is why he said he couldn't quite put his finger on his feelings. He really had nothing to complain about in regards to his family. Yet, the feelings still lurked deep inside, a quiet rebellion brewing, a plan of escape being prepared.
I think that I have felt it for many years. I chose to not believe it because this was not how I felt about being married, raising a family, living our life together. I am devoted to my family. I get pleasure from being with my family. I help my family as much as I can. This is not about me. If we wanted to talk about hardship and being undervalued, I could go on and on about me. But I don't see it this way. Hubby does though. He often told me "Don't be such a martyr, take the last piece of cake...to heck with the kids." Now I see that his urging for me to put myself ahead of family was really a longing to put himself first. He used to laugh about the advertisement, with hockey goalie Luc Roy, and his "it's not fair" routine. Well, now I see THAT in a different light. H has been crying "it's not fair" for years.
I think I'm on the right path. I've had lots of forks in the road, but I've chosen the right path forward for me. I need to do exactly what I have been doing...leave him alone and focus on making my own life the best it can be. I get to choose in the end. I get to choose forgiveness, or not. I get to choose the kind of life I truly want. He may be like others and discover that he's made a big mistake. Or, he may finally have found happiness by being alone. I see that he is about halfway or more towards the final destination. Like others have said so wisely, keep your expectations low...and I am. Who wants someone, who does not want you?
Recap of all the good advice I have learned from this forum and KEY advice for all who are struggling and have stumbled across this page:
Let him go
Focus on yourself, have faith in yourself
You matter, you have value
Keep your expectations low
Treat yourself with kindness
Let go of anger
Be grateful
Put one foot in front of the other until your step feel light again
These words mean more to me today than ever before.
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The one thing this forum does and does well, it leads all of us to a better life, on our own or with another, without feeling anger and bitterness. Anger and bitterness are acknowledged, even encouraged to a certain extent but we aim for A HAPPY LIFE, without anger and bitterness, whatever the outcome.
Let's be honest, there is no HAPPINESS if there is ANGER and BITTERNESS! MLC is a tragedy, we cannot let it take over our lives and destroy everything we believe in. To allow that, would be a far greater tragedy.
Hugs Stayed
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Hi mimix
Just wanted to say - great last post. You sound like you arein such a good placvat the mo!
SC