[Anjae]

No, nothing is that ghosting has to do with pre-BD Mr J or Mr J for a good while after BD. He used to be a total clinger.

Also, he didn't dissapear. Even if I don't agree with his reasons for leaving, he said he was going to leave and gave reasons for it.

Which I suspect is what many, if not most MLCer do, they give reasons for leaving/end the marriage-relationship. The reason may be silly, but most MLCers don't tend to simply dissapear. If they did, there would be no BD.

BD implies that someone was BDed, things were said, the person said they wanted out.

MLC is not like a normal relationship breakup. Real MLCer vanishers aren't ghosters. Apply behaviours from non MLC situations to MLC doesn't make much sense. Vanisher really don't contact or barely do, say, once a year, or something of the sort.

[Treasur]

I agree that most 'vanishers' don't completely vanish...but in my situation, my xh did ghost me (and everyone else) for months at a time. My BD came in 2 bits...the first was hidden by 'I'm depressed and numb and suicidal so can't talk to you or come home but please don't give up on me', but it took him about 4 months to go to ghost....then he popped up with 'i want to work on us, ILY' which turned in two months to the second BD 'divorce is the only option'...and then he ghosted me for months, presumably also to focus on ow. Tbh, even when he did 'talk' in those first few months, he said nothing really but 'I can't talk/come home'...so he was an internal ghost even if he was sat in front of me  ...and of course I was reeling in shock and probably a bit loopy too!

I have never had any explanation or cause given from him, even a monster one LOL, and he was denying the existence of ow as a 'real relationship' to me and even his own L right up until he married her pretty much. I always felt that part of his refusal to see me or talk was that he simply didn't want to see my pain or feel his own. Much easier to just run. And it has always seemed logical to me that if he kept running, and that his m was probably part of that, he would never stop and deal with his 'demons' as he once called them.

But hey, that is his choice and it's his life and no longer my business.

[Anjae]

... the first was hidden by 'I'm depressed and numb and suicidal so can't talk to you or come home but please don't give up on me'

He told you how he felt at the time, people who ghost do not. Even asked to not give up on him.

i want to work on us, ILY' which turned in two months to the second BD 'divorce is the only option'...and then he ghosted me for months, presumably also to focus on ow. Tbh, even when he did 'talk' in those first few months, he said nothing really but 'I can't talk/come home'...

He was telling you something. A lot, in fact. That he was depressed and incapable of talk/come home. That is a reason, isn't it? He couldn't talk/come home. As for divorce being the only option, well, that is MLC thinking. But, would it have been better to have a live-in MLCer? I don't think so.

Ghosting tends to be a term used by teens and on dating advice about how some men (well, women as well) act while dating. I think what MLCers do is different and has to do with their crisis, it is not their normal way of dealing with things.

Much easier to just run.

Maybe be. Maybe not. Until we'll be on their shoes we can't know (aside from those of us that have been there).
 

And it has always seemed logical to me that if he kept running, and that his m was probably part of that, he would never stop and deal with his 'demons' as he once called them.

If that was/is true no MLCer would ever come out of crisis and returned. And they do. We have reconnected and reconciled people here.
We all tend to think that our MLCer will be different than all other MLCers and will be the one out of crisis sonn, but also that we have the one MLCer who will not deal with his/her issues.

LBS often want MLCers that don't want/aren't ready/can't talk to talk. Or to do things they aren't ready to do. And sometimes we forget that the thing is let them go, there is nothing that can be done and MLC take time. A lot of time.

[Treasur]

I suppose the simple truth Anjae is to accept that we simply don't know and time will tell. and many of us will never know because we won't see them again
but
there are some who seem to never really come though the process or decide that their new life/self is better for them or perhaps just too much damage to even bear to look at or choices like remarriage or new kids which can't be undone
imho, and I truly didn't want to accept this as a newbie, the odds are not good for any kind of reconciliation or 'normal' straightforward life shared with our spouses again, no matter the time it takes. just my perspective.

[heroIam]

I suppose the simple truth Anjae is to accept that we simply don't know and time will tell. and many of us will never know because we won't see them again
but
there are some who seem to never really come though the process or decide that their new life/self is better for them or perhaps just too much damage to even bear to look at or choices like remarriage or new kids which can't be undone
imho, and I truly didn't want to accept this as a newbie, the odds are not good for any kind of reconciliation or 'normal' straightforward life shared with our spouses again, no matter the time it takes. just my perspective.

I agree Treasur.  We can compare ghost to vanisher, but in the end they disappeared without proper closure.  Most everything in that article was spot on for my H.  Avoiding the conflict and even the testing part.  And the "not being able to look at themselves" is a big part of this.  Carrying on as if things are all resolved and tidied up -- when they are not.  I printed the article.  Thank you for sharing.

[Trustandlove]

Well, I've never said I was ghosted or that I have a vanisher, but a lot of what was written there very accurately reflects what happened to me -- such as the tests that I was set that I didn't know I was taking, such as telling me things were OK when they weren't, and the general just not dealing with things.  And punishing me for how he was feeling. 

It makes "sense" that if they don't deal with feelings, those feelings can't be hurt. And the bit where it says "they don't want to hurt their own feelings" while saying they don't want to hurt ours very much resonated as well.

[nah]

Which I suspect is what many, if not most MLCer do, they give reasons for leaving/end the marriage-relationship. The reason may be silly, but most MLCers don't tend to simply dissapear. If they did, there would be no BD.

I'm not sure if I ever read this from anyone else, but The Leaver never said I was the problem.

BD lasted about 2 minutes...

BFL:  "you know this year wasn't good"
Me:  "you mean our medical problems?"
BFL:  "I met someone"
Me:  "Did you have sex with her?"
BFL:  "Yes"
Me:  "Do you want a divorce"
BFL: "Yes"

That was it... then he left.

He met with me the next day (guilted by friends). He still never said a bad thing about me, mostly sat there when I vented.  Sure he protected her but never said anything bad about me or our marriage.

Later I vented by letter... again, if anything he complimented me,... said I was a good wife and mother, that he hoped I would someday forgive him.  Said that he often boasted to others about me and my accomplishments, yet he still ran.

Five years, the worst he said was things like, "Nah and I were on a separate page".  His biggest lies were minor like I didn't believe in counseling (he never asked),... or that he was lonely when I worked or missed when the kids were little.

Still, never really gave a reason other than HE changed.... that's it.

I guess that's still a reason but it doesn't seem too different than ghosting to me.

[Anjae]

I don't remember when BD was. I always use the day Mr J left. BD was months before, end of June 2006 or early July 2006. He took months to leave, months to say he was going to leave. He oscillated between super nice, buying me fabulous skirts, dresses and shoes and super angry and agressive.

March 2006 he had said he was depressed, and the depression only got worst with the djing, drinking and lack of sleep.

Still, never really gave a reason other than HE changed.... that's it.

That is still a reason. And true. He changed, didn't he?

Mr J reasons were: a) "you're more intelligent than I am", b) "it is impossible to win an argument with you", c) "you don't have feelings because you never cry at funerals".

a) is true and was 20 years before. b) is almost true and was 20 years before. c) it is true I don't cry at funerals, but, in 2006, I had only attended one funeral and Mr J was not present. I do have feelings.

I associate ghosting with adolescent dating or dramatic adult dating by non MLCers. MLC is a specific thing. Anyway, if I broke with someone I probably would only have said, it is over and that was it. Not everyone is into explanations. It does not mean ghosting to me, just that it is over. Period. 

Why people want explanations from someone - other than a MCLer - that tells them it is over is something I don't understand. Over is over.

As for closure. Closure was something I had never heard of before I start to read American newpapers/foruns. It is not something that was a thing here. Now I think some therapists used it, but it is not something that has meaning for a Portuguse my age. 

And I know what ghosting is because I read American and English newspapers/site. Otherwise I would have no idea. Many terms and concepts used here are not common to a Portuguse.

[CallingHeart]

Hmmm
Being married to someone and invested in a family life, then to have a spouse  say "I'm done" or "It's over" with very little explanation or working through a process to come to similar terms together before "moving on down the road" is no less than a $h!te sandwich. 

If this was a college dating scene, I might not expect more, but in a marriage, for me there is a deeper commitment and a deeper responsibility to the other (half) being tossed to the curb.   Damn straight I want and deserve a firetrucking explanation.

And if a spouse walks out the door, disappears, vanishes, very little or no comment, MLC or not, that is BD.

[Anjae]

What exactly should the explanation be? I no longer love you? I love you but don't want to be married to you anymore? I truly wonder what explanations are, or aren't acceptable - I am not talking MLC.

Work on things... going by the lack of success of marital counseling, that often only speeds divoce and leaves the spouses feeling more resetment towards each other, I am not sure that is such a good idea.

I was totally willing to work things out with Mr J even after OW1 was made public. I loved him and, there had been a 20 years investement and we had shared interests. But if I no longer loved him/see him as interesting, problems were keep increasing, things had been tried and didn't work, I would not be interested in doing anything more to work anything out. Sometimes there is nothing to work out. Things just end.
 

And if a spouse walks out the door, disappears, vanishes, very little or no comment, MLC or not, that is BD.

Walk out of the door, disappears, vanishes can be BD. Very little comment not really. Also, in non-MLC situations the other spouse is usually very aware things aren't well. That is why those marriages tend to end in mutaul divorce and those divorces are easier than MLC ones.