[BrenM]

I don't think anybody can compare their pain and loss.
What is bad to some may not be as bad to others.
Point plain and simple is we all are hurting. We all have lost.
Worst thing possible is for us(LBS) to down another LBS!!!!
Why!!!!!!
I feel for every single person on this site!!!!!
PERIOD!!!!!!!

Totally agree Helpingme. 

"The Hero's Spouse Forum offers an understanding and supportive community along with a peer mentor program to guide you through the trauma of your spouse's midlife crisis and infidelity. Join us and meet friends who understand what you are going through"

I surely hope that many threads can get back on track again and offer support to every LBS instead of having posters attack other LBS's.  No one is an expert on MLC irrespective of the length of time of their experience.  Everyday we all learn something different.  Everyone's story is different and deserves total respect and compassion.

We have all been put through the wringer and have suffered immensely.  HS is a great "home" where the LBS can share their experiences, thoughts and emotions without judgement and receive compassion that we deserve.   I seriously hope that our threads can get back on track.

[Thunder]

I agree with Helping too.

Anjae and Goner,

You are both making some good points, but this is such a complicated issue, with so many facets to it, we may never really solve what makes a person go in to a midlife crisis.

I think you both agree on:

Not every MLC is the same.
Not every situation is the same, it could depend on a variety of things.  Culture, religious beliefs, etc..

Does every one on here have a spouse who is truly in MLC?  Most, but I don't believe all.  Sometimes the spouse really may have been unhappy in the marriage, for what ever reason, and they just want out.
We only hear what the LBS tells us about their story, their history.

The reasons for having a crisis varies too.  Not all MLCer's had a bad childhood.  It seems most have but not all.  Sometimes it can result from a LBS who had the bad childhood and contributed to the break up.  They could be unable to know how to have a healthy relationship.

There are people who have Avoidant Personalities.  They may be just be emotionally insecure, with low self-esteem and not mature enough to deal with problems in an adult relationship.

Most have an alienator, but it's not always an ow/om.  It could be their work they throw themselves into, or a hobby they become obsessed with.

It could also be a mental/personaliy disorder, or a hormonal issue.  Hormones can play a big role in feeling bad and unhappy, in both men and women, especially in their 40's and 50's.  Women losing Estrogen, men with low testosterone.

Other reasons could be heavy debt.  To find you are bogged down with a lot of debt in middle age, can be very depressing.
Running away may sound really good to them.  Start all over again.

Then we have aging, or the fear of.  They look in the mirror one day and the person looking back at you is no longer 25.  They see wrinkles and gray hair and panic.  Maybe a little tire around your belly the didn't notice before.  They no longer look young and it freaks them out.  How did this happen?  So they go to extremes to turn back the clock.

Just too many things can cause this to happen, and it's not always childhood issues.

Maybe we just need to agree that no matter what the reasons are/were, we have all been wounded by what has happened and be kind and supportive of each other.

[Anjae]

I think you both agree on:

Not every MLC is the same.
Not every situation is the same, it could depend on a variety of things.  Culture, religious beliefs, etc..

I agree.

Does every one on here have a spouse who is truly in MLC?  Most, but I don't believe all. 

Also agree most here, but not all, have a spouse in MLC.

Then we have aging, or the fear of.  They look in the mirror one day and the person looking back at you is no longer 25.  They see wrinkles and gray hair and panic.

That one was always odd with Mr J. He was 36 but looked much younger. No grey hair, no wrinkles, and he looked pretty much like his 25 years old self.

Yet, he wouldn't stop the "I only have now to do this". Never knew if this was DJing, leaving, OW, the whole of it. Whatever it was, "now" become 12 years down the road.

Maybe we just need to agree that no matter what the reasons are/were, we have all been wounded by what has happened and be kind and supportive of each other.

I still don't think it makes sense to be giving advice to non-LC cases. Think of HS as a hospital. You don't go to a psychiatris if you have a broken leg. Nor to a dentist if you need a heart surgery. They are all doctors, but each as it range of action.

Wanting to be all things to all people does not work and takes from those who have a MLCer. That is, a spouse whose crisis has the potential to end.

[Thunder]

But the thing is we do not know, with any certainty, who is truly in MLC and who isn't.

[Anjae]

But we do know that if certain behaviours were there before MLC, then those behaviours are not MLC related. They may had been enhanced by MLC, but they were not brought by MLC.

Someone who always cheated is different from someone who only cheated because of MLC.

Someone who physically violent before MLC is different than someone who was physically during MLC. Someone who had manic and depressed episoded before MLC is different than someone for whom those episodes only come with MLC.

AIf someone has a spouse with a mental illness medically diagnosed before MLC, we know that mental illness is not going to go away.
If a LBS clearly states their spouse was diagnosed with a degenerative neurological disorder by a neurologist, it is not MLC. But we have people like that here.

If HS members think their spouses do not have MLC but something else be it NPD, borderline, bopolar, etc., and some do, then, HS may also not be the most logical place for them.

[BrenM]

But the thing is we do not know, with any certainty, who is truly in MLC and who isn't.

Totally agree Thunder. It is not up to fellow LBS's to judge others and decide in their partner in is not a Mlcer.  We do not know the relationship they shared.  It is our role to support not judge.

Realistically is any of our partners MLcers?  There is no medical test to confirm 100%.  All we can go by is by the symptoms and traits....ironically the symptoms just happen to be script for so many others....worldwide.  Is this a coincidence?  In my opinion I think not.

I do believe that most LBS's read up on Midlife marriage advocate and other websites prior to diagnosing their partners as having a MLC and joining our HS community.  Dare say they would know their partners best.  Yes some non-MLCers may slip through, but i dare say this number would be  very few.

[Anjae]

Realistically is any of our partners MLcers? 

Yes. There is a MLC script that is recognisable. Some of us, myself included, had a MLC of our own. Some of us have relatives and/or friends that have had a MLC.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=5826.0  MLC Script VI (there are 5 previous threads on the same matter).

Some therapists, psychiatrist, other doctors and other health professionals believe in MLC.

"A "midlife crisis" can also be responsible. This can happen when men think they've reached life's halfway stage. Anxieties over what they've accomplished so far, either in their job or personal life, can lead to a period of depression." from https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/male-menopause/ and

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3696284/Are-risk-midlife-crisis-Doctors-6-tell-tale-signs-past-them.html - Doctors describe the 6 tell-tale signs - and how to get past them

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11429993 - Mid-life crisis begins in mid-30s, Relate survey says (not doctors but a survey by the BBC)

There are many more articles from or with testimony from Health Professionals. Some of us know real life health professionals that believe in MLC.

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3602.0 -  MLC and the Medical Community

I do believe that most LBS's read up on Midlife marriage advocate and other websites prior to diagnosing their partners as having a MLC and joining our HS community.  Dare say they would know their partners best. 

Indeed. But several end up changing their mind and thinking their spouse has something else and remain here.

Yes some non-MLCers may slip through, but i dare say this number would be  very few.

There are several with threads currently on the main board that question if it is MLC and think their spouse has NPD and may always had, etc.

And we did have at least one person whose husband has been diagnosed with a neurological degenerative disease and was here telling us all our spouse was soon going to die. 7

She insisted MLC and a neurological degenerative disorder were the same thing, never mind MLCer come out of MLC and there are people reconnecting on HS as well as reconciled.

RCR always left it clear some here do not have MLCers. However, those who think they don't have MLCer may have MLCers and some of those who think they have MLCer may not.

It is also possible that, at a point, for some, MLC becomes something else.

[nah]

I kind of agree with Anjae here...

Sometimes I can't be sure but sometimes posters come on here and it's so blatant...

Married just a few years, oh they cheated on their ex, and then with me, but then we got married anyways and my spouse was drunk half of our 3 years marriage and cheated on me,,, blah, blah, blah....

THEN.... even some old-timers on here will jump on the "yes that's MLC wagon"....

Nope, not always.



Maybe to make the poster feel better.... idk.

[Anjae]

Married just a few years, oh they cheated on their ex, and then with me, but then we got married anyways and my spouse was drunk half of our 3 years marriage and cheated on me,,, blah, blah, blah....

That also happens. It could be the person married someone that was already in MLC, and we often say it if we think that is the case. It could be the spouse was not in MLC but had such issues.

THEN.... even some old-timers on here will jump on the "yes that's MLC wagon"....

Nope, not always.

Maybe to make the poster feel better.... idk.

True. Yes, I think it is to make the poster feel better. Being direct/blunt/calling a spade a spade is not that appreciated around here. Or not now. I mean, we try to take the person's feelings into consideration, but sometimes the story does not add up with MLC and its script.

It would not make sense to say it is/looks like MLC when it does not.

[Nas]

I kind of agree with Anjae here...

Sometimes I can't be sure but sometimes posters come on here and it's so blatant...

Married just a few years, oh they cheated on their ex, and then with me, but then we got married anyways and my spouse was drunk half of our 3 years marriage and cheated on me,,, blah, blah, blah....

THEN.... even some old-timers on here will jump on the "yes that's MLC wagon"....

Nope, not always.



Maybe to make the poster feel better.... idk.

I agree, there are some obvious cases of non-MLCers.  For the people who think their spouse might be NPD or BPD or bipolar, I think we all go through that kind of questioning at some point.  If they have had a diagnosis of bipolar since they were 16, that's a different story.  If they've exhibited major NPD traits for the past 20 years, that's a different story.  If they've had 19 OW during the marriage, the 20th OW is not an MLC affair.

As far as the topic of this thread: To me, one of the things we have to deal with as LBSs of vanishers that is particularly hard is being erased from existence and knowing absolutely nothing can make them acknowledge us. 

I've been fighting cancer for 16 months now, for crying out loud, and it hasn't been enough to make him so much as "check the anchor."

Clingers and boomerangs, whether they are monster or charming monster or acting "normal," at least acknowledge the LBS's existence.  They might move out and live with the OP, get all new friends and change their whole lives, but they still acknowledge the LBS.  They might not always initiate contact, but they at least respond to texts or emails.  They might even answer phone calls. 

With a clinger or a boomerang, the LBS can send truth darts and have the hope of feeling "heard."  We clanishers are silenced, muted. 

Erasing someone who was once the biggest part of your life is a particularly cruel act.  My IC once called it excessively emotionally abusive, to be honest.  It's a dismissive act that is really unmatched in its coldness and callousness. 

I believe that as H started to feel more and more "safe" in his new life, he erased me more and more.  As he's achieved more and made more new friends and felt more confident that his new life isn't going to fail, he's had less and less need to think I'm out there somewhere as a safety net.   

He really did get to "start over," while my new life in my beautiful apartment in a new state was cut short by an illness that has a very high possibility of shortening my lifespan.  At the risk of being told to stop being self-pitying, I can't help but wonder why.  Why did he get to do all the wrong things, pack up and leave and have everything fall in his favor, while I did all the right things and when I packed up and left to start anew, it all went to sh!t within 6 months? 

Forget all the things he did for months pre-BD and for the first two years after.  Why does he get to change his phone number and disappear completely from his legal spouse who has cancer and somehow the universe keeps showering him with lucky breaks and good fortune? 

The injustice of a vanisher is a unique feature of all of this that adds an extra layer of sh!t onto an already brutal situation.