I think LBSes fall broadly into one of two categories-those who see MLC as a moral transgression and those who see it as a mental illness.
I don't see it as either. I see it as HIS dishonesty and disrespect of me and the life we built together. I don't care about moral platitudes about the sanctity of marriage. And MLCers for darn sure don't care about statements like that either.
As for megogirl, this is your thread and I've read along for quite a while and fought the urge to jump in. But sometimes things get to a point where lurking LBSs can't just continue to lurk. Every time you get advice, you reply with the LBS equivalent of my 6 year old nephew's "Yeah, but..." when we say something "corrective" to him. Not just now and then. Ever. Single. Time. You don't seem to have any interest in hearing what people have to say that might help you in your stand. You have a NEED to say what you say and you say it. And we're all familiar with that behavior because we all have MLCers.
You say you're standing because you love RCR and her marriage was saved. Because her situation was her situation and her experiences were her experiences and we are all grateful to RCR for setting up this site and giving us a huge arsenal of articles and blogs about her experience and knowledge and advice she'd gleaned over the years. But a fraction of a percentage of marriages on this site have come back together.
You've said multiple times that your absolute sole reason for standing for your S15. But you're already, what, 2 years in? So you have potentially 3, 5, 7 more years to go before anything changes. Will you be here in a few years saying you are standing for your S25?
And while you are standing for your S-now-15, I assume it's to teach him something about growing up and about marriage and
patience. HB often writes about her experience and how it was always in her mind to teach her then teenage son lessons about patience and loving the sinner/hating the sin, etc. What are you teaching him about patience when you say whatever snarky remark comes to mind every time you get hurt.
And let's not get it twisted... yeah, I can't really pull off immature teenage vernacular, but you do it
all the time, so I thought I'd try.
Sorry, that was snarky of me. But it was on purpose. See how it feels when someone makes a snarky remark about you that also has a tinge of truth? Not good, right? It's all in the delivery. Because now you don't like me very much, do you? And that's how your H feels immediately after you "zing" him.
Only you and I are not MLCers and my remark and your previous remarks don't get encoded in our brains as black and white statements about who we are. But in your H's brains? Well, there's multiple threads full of theories on that. But I'm one to believe that at least while he's in MLC, what you say to him, and especially the tone of voice you say it in, becomes
who you are. Period. So now you've built yourself up in his mind as someone he doesn't want to approach because you'll say something either sarcastic or loaded with platitudes he doesn't give a rat's pitooty about. And while some or all of it may be true...again, He. Doesn't. Hear. It. He only hears the sarcastic tone.
And if he does hear the truth bits, they make him feel bad. And what do MLCers do when they feel bad? They project. They blame. They get angry. And they retreat.
So every single time you make a comment that may make you feel good for a split second because you're releasing some built up anger, what is really happening is you are solidifying his view of you as exactly what you want him to see himself as.
THAT is why we are all continuing to try to reach you. That's why we're all continuing to post. No one is commenting to you because we don't like you or we think you shouldn't be standing or you're not worth our time.
Every single one of us could just move on to other threads and stop commenting to you. For the love of God, you told someone to "shoo, fly, shoo" and she still came back. When I read that, my first thought was honestly, "Man, I give up on this chick. She's just never going to listen to anyone."
But people came back. And keep coming back. We are trying to help you, Mego. We've all been where you are. I've been at this for almost 4 years. Now, granted, I'm not standing anymore, but my circumstances are different and my choices will be different. Some people commenting on your thread have been around for 5, 7, 10, 12 years. Some are standing. Some aren't. But we are all taking time out of our day to write to you.
(and p.s. You can check my post history. I NEVER write posts this long unless it's journaling on my own thread. You can say I'm a bit stingy with my advice. So this long post on your thread is out of character for me and that should say something to you.)
You want to save your marriage. You HAVE to start listening to and absorbing what people are trying to tell you. Because you love RCR and you've even twisted some of what she's written to make your actions seem okay. RCR never told her H he better hope there isn't an afterlife.
I'm not in the camp of all compassion all the time. In one of my early threads you can see where I almost word for word posted an interaction with my H where I really let him have it. I mean, REALLY let him have it. I held nothing back. But it was early on, at a choice moment. You have to pick your moments.
There are moments when you might be able to toss out a humorously sarcastic-yet-painfully-true-dart. Pure nasty sarcasm, especially during replay, will likely never land right on its intended target and will have the opposite effect.
Now, I've said immature a few times here and I don't want to leave it unexplained because I'm not saying it to be hurtful. Goner also mentioned immaturity. We're all immature at times, especially when our own inner children get wounded - you know, like when someone betrays us, abandons us, treats us despicably. We all get it.
A mature adult never needs to defend their maturity by telling us their age and using the bible to explain whatever immature behavior they've been accused of.
My advice, for what it's worth, is to put your bible aside. Your beliefs are yours and you are entitled to them. But whatever your religious beliefs, your H obviously doesn't share them and continually spouting them to him as a reason why he should not be doing what he's doing is only going to push him further and further away. He will not wake up one day and have an epiphany, haul his adulterous tushy to church, repent and show up on your doorstep to tell you you were right.
Even if he ever wants to reconcile, he will likely still never tell you you were right. About anything.
He doesn't care that he's breaking commandments. And if you think about it, really think about it, we ALL break or bend commandments at some point in our life. And unless we are devout followers of scripture, we don't really care. We do things wrong in life. We either self-correct and continue on, or sadly and more often, we explain it away and continue on. Your H is NEVER going to be swayed by talk of breaking commandments.
There are MLCers who used to be ministers. They served God their entire life. They know the bible inside and out. They still had MLCs. They still had affairs. They still broke commandment after commandment. It doesn't matter to an MLCer.
My MLCer knows I have advanced cancer. He was pretty much a "mama's boy" from the day we met. His own mother, my MIL, who he always listened to, is twisting herself into a pretzel to find out what's going on with my health. She's of course loyal to her son, but she's also told people she's disappointed in him. That's HUGE. A narcissistic mother admitting to outsiders that she's disappointed in the perfect can-do-no-wrong fruit of her loins? That's HUGE. Unprecedented. STILL had no effect. I could die tomorrow. He'll still be in MLC.
Your stand can't be predicated on the breaking of commandments. It can't even be based solely on the fact that you share a son.
You've been asked multiple times why are YOU standing. What is it about your H and your marriage that you deem worth standing for? You've said in the past your H was always abusive. Some people took that literally. I read your posts and saw where he wasn't perfect but assumed the "always abusive" comment was another comment you made in anger - but see there, another example of choosing your words carefully and explaining yourself completely. Anger clouds everything, including our ability to be perfectly clear in what we're saying.
Why are YOU standing? What's in it for YOU? Not what's in it for your S15, who might be S30 and have a wife and kids of his own by the time this is all over. Not what's in it for your H, because right now and for a long time to come, your H has that covered. With every move he makes and ever choice he makes, he cares what's in it for him and only him.
Are you simply angry that you stood by him when he was fat and poor and now someone else gets to enjoy the spoils of his weight loss and increased salary?
Yeah. We've all been there. You're not alone. But like others have said, she's not a hooker or a prostitute unless he found her standing on a corner offering him sex acts for $50. She's clearly got low moral character. She's clearly selfish in ways that until this happened, I was naive to. (I didn't know selfishness on this level existed. I really didn't. Which is why I think I had a harder time wrapping my head around all of this early on.)
But she's not a hooker. She's not a prostitute. Again, I'm not one who cares if people call the OP names in anger here. This is a place to vent. I've called my H's OW a wh*r^ more times than I can count.
But in real life? It just makes you look bad. Angry, bitter, and immature. You want to look better than them because you ARE better than them. And your son is watching and hearing, even when you think he's not. You can't say you're standing for him and then keep showing him that this is how to handle it when people betray you.
There's also the matter of what your H actually will remember of all. Angry texts in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner is not how you want to be remembered. If you believe in the RCR/HB path of MLC, then you believe that at some point replay will end. And when he starts to come out of the fog, do you want his memory bank full of angry texts and cutting remarks about broken commandments? Or do you want him to remember you as a picture of grace and dignity? Which do you think will make him feel more remorse?
On the celebs in the news thread recently, I shared that Hugh Jackman was being interviewed on the radio, talking about how his mother left his family in the early 1970s. Years later, she told him somehow she always knew it wasn't supposed to be forever and - his exact words that she said she told him -
it felt like someone else was making those choices. But when all was said and done, she couldn't go back. His father was left to take care of 5 children alone and he rebuilt a life that didn't allow for reconciliation. But Hugh talks about his father as a man so full of grace and caring. He calls his father "his rock."
Imagine if he spent his childhood hearing his father call his mother a wh*r^, shooting off cutting remarks every time he had to speak to her, or constantly railing about which commandments she'd broken and how she needs to REPENT! REPENT! REPENT! Your son is listening, Megogirl. He is.
Sorry, I've gone on and on here (again, SO not like me and I hope it doesn't come off as just rambling), but I felt this really strong compulsion to step in here, Mego. This isn't a Lifetime movie. It's your life. Who do you want to be in YOUR life?
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What now?