Author Topic: Discussion An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!  (Read 3048 times)

Offline xyzcf

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10049
  • Gender: Female
Discussion Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2019, 10:47:18 AM »
gman242

Thank you for being brave enough to post what you did.

To support one another, we have to be able to accept the differences in the situation and the feelings we have for our spouses. Yes, we need to protect ourselves and build a life.

My own interpretation is that some people feel that since I am still standing after 10 years and to me that means standing for my marriage and my spouse for I don't see "standing" as some people do..it is very very clear to me what standing means and that is to be here if my spouse comes through his crisis..sorry if that upsets you folks.....

What I read into some of the posts about standing or having compassion for our spouse of understanding what a crisis is, is that somehow I am not living my life fully. But standing doesn't stop me from living a full and rich life, although that is what is written in some posts.

We are adults, we make decisions about what is best for ourselves and for our families. Respect for one another's position would help decrease the anger and messiness that happens here, in a place that should be helpful to each LBSer.

Thank you for writing what you did.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 11:06:37 AM by xyzcf »
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see" Hebrews 11:1

"You enrich my life and are a source of joy and consolation to me. But if I lose you, I will not, I must not spend the rest of my life in unhappiness."

" The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it". Flannery O'Connor

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Offline Songanddance

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5509
  • Gender: Female
  • Strength and honour are her clothing;
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #141 on: July 12, 2019, 12:29:15 AM »
Quote
I have always believed it was the MLC'er CHOICE to leave and yes, I absolutely believe they do what they do because they WANT to, consequences be damned because they simply don't care.  That said, I think they are very screwed up mentally, at the same time, yet that is no excuse.  It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it

I don't think anyone disagrees with that thought Beyond.   

Cutting ties is hard for those who have young children and a serious clinging boomerang MLCer.  Cutting ties is hard when the MLCer replayer with OW stays at home (as mine did). Not all MLCers are vanishers or leave the family home.

I agree that the LBS should totally get on with their own life and I agree that stage watching is ultimately a form of emotional torture that, in hindsight, is bonkers to do. 

However, in those first few months after BD - helping LBSers understand that they are probably living in an MLC crisis ridden world and that they need to process the shock and that protecting themselves legally, financially and emotionally is a good way forward.

Telling them to cut ties however is so much easier said than done for some of us.  And you can still stand even if you do cut ties.  Standing isn't waiting or stage-watching at all.
BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 through 2018.
2019 is the year of Decisions!

Offline Mortesbride

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2309
  • Gender: Female
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #142 on: July 12, 2019, 04:12:54 AM »
Cutting ties is hard for those who have young children and a serious clinging boomerang MLCer.  Cutting ties is hard when the MLCer replayer with OW stays at home (as mine did). Not all MLCers are vanishers or leave the family home.

Telling them to cut ties however is so much easier said than done for some of us.  And you can still stand even if you do cut ties.  Standing isn't waiting or stage-watching at all.

Amen sister. My youngest is 3. I got at least another 15 years sentence. Potentially more when you start factoring in weddings and shared grandkids.  :o
You know this is MLC when you have played emotional hot potato with a pair of crotch-less tights.

Offline nah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7057
  • Gender: Female
  • His mlc...too bad for him
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #143 on: July 12, 2019, 04:49:05 AM »
Quote
I have always believed it was the MLC'er CHOICE to leave and yes, I absolutely believe they do what they do because they WANT to, consequences be damned because they simply don't care.  That said, I think they are very screwed up mentally, at the same time, yet that is no excuse.  It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it

I don't think anyone disagrees with that thought Beyond.   



Actually a few people on here do disagree with that thought.

I guess if all of us agreed on every aspect of what happened to our spouses, how to heal, and our stories were exactly the same, we wouldn’t have much to talk about, would we?

I enjoyed this thread. Especially when the “old timers” jump in and discuss different thoughts, it always gets interesting. After all these years I believe there are always new things to think about which sometimes gives me another perspective on how to help others behind me.
H-54
me-52
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

Offline Treasur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7610
  • Gender: Female
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #144 on: July 12, 2019, 04:57:13 AM »
I honestly believe that part of our healing and our strength is to reach a point when we can look at reality with brave eyes and choose our own truth to live with.
No matter what anyone else thinks. Although as Nah says, we can learn what we think by hearing what other heads do especially those perhaps with a little time and distance from all the shocking craziness  :)

It takes a while for most of us bc this is an exhausting and often far from normal bit of life experience. But you do feel stronger when you know you have found on your own truth. And life gets simpler when you do feel that shift.
I think it is important to respect that the truths we find and choose will not always be the same, and we may not always agree with each other.
But the proof is in the individual life pudding imho. :)

All of us know that it takes a darned long time to just even accept what we see right in front of us.
That we don't understand it but it is still real.
Takes a lot my time to stop thinking of them as who they were and start thinking of them as who they are (which is usually pretty awful)...and then maybe a bit of time after that to let the pendulum settle and decide how we see them on the spectrum between past and present versions.
And before then we need to scrabble around to figure out how to protect ourselves and our families as much as we can.
And then eventually we get to catch a breath and figure out how we feel about it all and how we frame it in a way we can live with it all regardless of what happens in the future. Letting go and acceptance have a lot of layers. And I truly think it is harder to do if you are still on the WTF battlefield too.

We get to decide for ourselves who we think our spouse was and what our old life was.
We get to decide who or what we think they are now and how much exposure we want to have to that.
We get to decide if it was some kind of crisis or not. And if we see them as mad, bad or ill.
And we get to decide what we see them as responsible for or not, and how much we blame or forgive or neither.

I honestly believe that the difference between a good wise LBS choice or not is about how much weight we carry forward that gets in the way of making a good different life from the rubble. For some, believing compassionately in the existence of their 'real' spouse and a door on the latch is essential. For others, finding the anger and courage to shut the door on them completely is essential. For some, it is maybe in the middle. But the bit of fight that comes out for most LBS as they get up off their knees imho is that each one gets the right to choose and not to be told what they should think or feel by anyone - including here - once they have found that inner answer for themselves and know why it is the right choice for their lives as they move on from the destruction.

In my case, and it took me a very long time, I trust that something bad and extraordinary changed how my h thought and felt and behaved. He did bad things to many people who trusted him and probably to himself; he is responsible for all of his actions and some of the consequences of them.
I don't know if the 'real' person still exists or will ever exist again, but if so, I have compassion for him bc he looked like someone who blew himself and his life up and destroyed things he had valued for years. And I also know that he will never be anything better than a damaged person if he does not take responsibility for himself or if I make excuses for him. And my door had to close bc I had to accept that he would hurt me more if I let him.

I suppose the big question I came here trying to answer was could I trust my own reality which now included incomprehensibly a h who apparently hated me enough to wish I was dead.

But, for me, it was unliveable with to either believe that the much-loved husband I knew was never real or to spend the rest of my life hating him.....so I choose to believe essentially that he became mentally ill, dangerous and metaphorically died. I choose to invest nothing in that person, think fondly and with compassion of who he was and the 'demons' that broke him and have no expectation of him ever becoming something better again bc I can't know.

But if he does, and he ever asks for my help or acceptance...as long as it doesn't damage me or my life...I will show it by respecting him enough to be kind in how I let him tackle his own burdens from what happened and what he did. And even if I never see or hear from him again, I will always hope that what he became is not the best that he can do and be as I would hope others would want for me to be more than the shellshocked grieving LBS version of myself.

Bc, although it is easy to doubt it in our own situation, looking from a distance most of these spouses have become destructive, unhappy, weak, lost half-people and no one would wish that on anyone they once loved I think.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 06:19:07 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Songanddance

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5509
  • Gender: Female
  • Strength and honour are her clothing;
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #145 on: July 12, 2019, 05:15:47 AM »
Quote
Actually a few people on here do disagree with that thought.

Which thought Nah?  If you look at it specifically Beyond came up with more than three thoughts.

It is the MLCer's choice to leave - they choose to leave the marriage the moment BD happens. Leaving physically is a different thing whether the LBS kicks them our or they walk "voluntarily"

They do so because they want to - yes true.   They choose to leave the marriage because they want to blame everyone else for their wanting to leave.

The consequences are potentially damned no matter what the MLCer does even if it's an early return - the damage has been done and MLCers instigated the start of the consequences.

Yes they are screwed up mentally and leaving your spouse/family etc claiming this is no excuse. Their depression is understandable but their choices in acting/behaving the way they do is not.

Quote
It is still my feeling that you must move on from here, and start rebuilding your life as YOU want it

Would this statement have made a difference if the words had been "move forward" rather than "move on"?  And all LBSers are advised to rebuild a life for themselves irrespective of the MLCer.   
BD march 2013
Stay at home MLCer
OW for 3.5 years - finishing Autumn 2016
Reconnection started 2017 through 2018.
2019 is the year of Decisions!

Offline Nas

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2078
  • Gender: Female
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #146 on: July 12, 2019, 05:45:43 AM »
I think the interpretation of “move on from here” is meaning move on from HS, get off the forum and stop talking about MLC. That’s from TNT’s post. And that’s a judgment that not all share. I wouldn’t have made it in the early days if long timers hadn’t stuck around to impart their knowledge to me.
Married 8 years at BD, together 16.
BD March 2015
H moved out July 2015
I found out about OW March 2016 (She went to high school with H, long distance EA since September 2014, became PA November 2015)
H moved 1100 miles to live with OW June 2016
I was diagnosed with advanced breast cancer June 2017
H became a vanisher

Offline nah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7057
  • Gender: Female
  • His mlc...too bad for him
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #147 on: July 12, 2019, 05:49:55 AM »
Some on here believe the MLCers did not “choose” pretty much any of it. That was how this discussion thread broke off. I asked a simple question on the MLCer thread. I asked (paraphrased) if she (the former MLCer) felt accountable for her actions.

That’s when the thread blew up. Some felt I was out of line bc when she was “in the fog”, they felt she didn’t have a choice. They felt she was compelled to do it the things she did and couldn’t stop herself from her actions.

I’m not saying I agree with the “devil made me do it” or whatever you want to call it,...
Did you read the thread?
H-54
me-52
ow-30
married 1986
BD April 6 2013 day after family went out for sons birthday.
I packed his bags two days later...semi-vanisher
https://heneversaidaword.com

Offline Helpingme!

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2210
  • Gender: Male
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #148 on: July 12, 2019, 06:17:13 AM »
I think if there were not any old timers here we would all be lost. If all were newbies, I can't imagine what the advice would be.
I agree it's good to take breaks from this site if your depending on it to survive. At one point I fell asleep reading threads and woke up reading more. I couldn't function without it.
Now, I read to learn. Mainly to see other opinions and help me to see I'm not an idiot sometimes. I'm normal.
Nobody's post offend me really. We are all different. We handle things differently. But same as some people's choices may seem wrong to me, my choices may be wrong to them. It's just how it is.
Gman, don't ever hold back posting brother. There are alot if people that feel same as you and enjoy the truth. Always. Alot would do the same, but are worried about what some will say. Just say it. As long as nothing is directed at one person in a hateful way, speak it up.
I also agree it's a choice they make. Everything is a choice. Now consequences that come from it??? Well maybe that's what happens, but the original choice they made started it all.
I don't think I'll ever leave this site. I may be gone as He, but I'll always check back in.
I have made some special friends here and yes this is the only contact I have with them.

Online Mitzpah

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6063
  • Gender: Female
  • How I long for your precepts! Psalm 119:40
Re: An interesting debate about MLC - Justification!
« Reply #149 on: July 12, 2019, 06:39:07 AM »
As I said so before - my h. is responsible for his choices/actions - I believe this.

It may have been 'driven' by his internal dis-ease, and he may have felt compelled to leave... but he absolutely chose to do what he did, in fact, I think he felt at the time that it was the first time he was actually choosing to do something by himself, having been rather accommodated as a son, a husband  and a father.

I see no need to cut ties with him, he is the much loved father of my children, he does not want to be my husband anymore and therefore he chose to divorce me. How I feel about him and contact with him, is my business.

So, yes, move forward and standing is my choice.
M 57
H 57
S 27
S 25
D 24
BD 13 Dec 2010
Divorced 27 Feb 2015 (30 years marriage)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future" Jeremiah 29:11

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk
Legal Disclaimer

The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.