Hmmm Rcr, I hope you are going to follow up on that post because I'm less clear now than before on the questions I asked. 

Yes, it's likely where things are getting mixed up, in wanting to provide a safe place for Stander's but also to want to include non-standers. 

My question is why the focus isn't to provide a safe place for all rather than Stander's?

If it can't be an an inclusive place for both, then would you prefer that all of us non-standers leave in order to ensure safety for the Stander's as in Ready's words HS shouldn't try to be all things to all people. (And I happen to agree with her on that point.).

In fact, I don't see how you can achieve both a virtually  trigger free place for Stander's and at the same time an inclusive place for non-standers and old timers as there is no limit to what may trigger any one person.

You began addressing things that trigger Stander's.  I assume that's just a couple examples off the top of your head.  So it would be easy to read into the meaning behind the post that you agree Stander's are getting retaliation so it's unsafe for them to post.  Is this accurate?

It's also possible to read into your post that non-standers need to either tread carefully as to what they say or how they say it so as not to trigger any possible stander who may possibly read the post.  Is this not an impossible expectation particularly in discussion threads where a variety of topics are discussed from a variety of angles informed by a variety personal experiences, different cultures, different socio-economic backgrounds etc?  Again to protect against Stander's who may become triggered?  Or will you do away with discussion threads?  Or do you have a plan for limiting possible triggers by topic say? 

Finally, it appears you are leaning towards suggesting that non-standers have a responsibility to not trigger Stander's.  Do Stander's have a reciprocal responsibility to not trigger non-standers? 

Steelspine, thank you for your response.  I'm not trying to beat up on you in the following but to make a generalized point:

To quote you,
"But what I also see is that a long term LBS, who has healed from whatever abuse they have endured and is in no way standing, is not a great choice to give advice to a shell-shocked newbie."

That could describe both Anjae and myself and quite a few others who are current or former mentors.  I've mentored more than a few newbies officially and unofficially.  Is it fair for you to assume I was not a great choice considering you and I have not interacted that I recall? Am I being judged fairly when I'm not aware that you have any knowledge of my mentoring style or skills? Perhaps I was a poor choice but I'm not aware of any complaints from those I mentored.  Should I state that triggers me or should I listen with an open mind to your opinions and concerns?  True, it's a moot point as I'm no longer mentoring but that's how easy it is to claim someone triggers another person rather than listening and examining the trigger.  If so I would be personalizing your comment to being directed at me when I don't know if it was or was not intended for me and if you meant it negatively or as a generalized comment in relation to what you feel is best.

Perhaps you think only Stander's should mentor? 
That leaves out most of the old timers and a large percentage of the Mod board including all or most of the men if memory serves me, as well as Old Pilot, an admin.  That's fine with me but I'm not certain that is/was workable based on the make up of the Mod board and the number of newbies on the site at a given time

I am not trying to be provoking, just trying to get an understanding of the direction this forum is moving so I can wisely invest my limited time. 

Lp

Was musing on the Stander issue on my walk this morning...

Firstly, a practical suggestion. If it is very important to you that people's responses to your posts should be in the context of your choice to Stand, then why not put Stander in the little bit of text at the end of your posts? Easy for people to see as a reminder who might not be familiar with your history or story. Same reason why it is helpful to see if people have kids, if the MLC spouse is living elsewhere, when BD was or if they are divorced for context.

Then I was thinking about what differentiates a Stander from a non Stander or from those 'If-ers' as UM calls them who are probably somewhere in the middle. Is standing a set of beliefs, a personal label, a context, a lifestyle? Does it exclude or include some issues or discussions depending on which you are?

I remember reading an old thread of xyzcf's called something like 'What I believe' in which she explained her path to her current faith and how that shapes her choices. It was a very interesting read and made it very clear why she feels the way she does about standing. I have said here that I am not standing bc of what I believe about the reality of my own situation and my own wellbeing. But truthfully I live like a Stander right now in many ways...I have religious views about m, divorce was not my choice, I am not dating, and if I ever do I would not remarry..but I also am divorced, have no contact with my vanished h  and do not think of my xh as my h. Which is probably sane as he is someone else's h lol. My focus is on my own recovery after losing my h and other important things in this extraordinary and often incomprehensible way.

My own experience (which was completely shocking to me at the time) of being financially abused, gaslit and personally threatened probably does make me want to encourage LBS to be tougher earlier on actions to protect themselves as opposed to 'Paving The way' for an MLC spouse. I think there is an unintentional trap and a dissonance in believing that we have much influence over an MLC spouse in active crisis. My own experience of grief and PTSD probably makes me more focused on understanding why it isn't always so straightforward to do what you know you should do and encouraging people to detach to protect their sanity over their marriage. But if there is a middle ground that means people don't have to run to file - if only bc an MLC divorce is rarely an easy thing lol - I would support that bc I believe divorce is a terrible destructive thing for most people and families. I think that when I post to support others, it is important that I am respectful of where they are right now and aware of my own biases that might affect my posts. But I wonder sometimes if it really isn't as black and white as Stander vs not Standing and what Stander means in practice beyond a choice to hope or leave a door open for any potential reconciliation?

I think that's an interesting point about defining the standers from the non-standers, Treasur.

For me there is more to it, though.

Listen everyone, I am not trying to be argumentative.  But I do have a tender heart for the newbie, and I think that this is the only place where that traumatized soul might have a chance just to breathe, without people wanting their money to "SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE NOW!!' or telling them to "KICK THAT CHEATER TO THE CURB!!"

Just a chance to breathe. To collect themselves, to make sensible, measured preparations before they choose the path they are going to walk.

 Is it fair for you to assume I was not a great choice considering you and I have not interacted that I recall? Am I being judged fairly when I'm not aware that you have any knowledge of my mentoring style or skills? Perhaps I was a poor choice but I'm not aware of any complaints from those I mentored.  Should I state that triggers me or should I listen with an open mind to your opinions and concerns?  True, it's a moot point as I'm no longer mentoring but that's how easy it is to claim someone triggers another person rather than listening and examining the trigger.  If so I would be personalizing your comment to being directed at me when I don't know if it was or was not intended for me and if you meant it negatively or as a generalized comment in relation to what you feel is best.

Perhaps you think only Stander's should mentor? 
That leaves out most of the old timers and a large percentage of the Mod board including all or most of the men if memory serves me, as well as Old Pilot, an admin.  That's fine with me but I'm not certain that is/was workable based on the make up of the Mod board and the number of newbies on the site at a given time

I am not trying to be provoking, just trying to get an understanding of the direction this forum is moving so I can wisely invest my limited time. 

Lp

Well, I never claimed to be "fair" about anything (ask my boys).  I was just tossing out an opinion, as we all do. If I could, I would preface "not a great choice.." with "perhaps".

Lawprofessor, if I triggered you it would bother me. I have read everything you have ever posted, and your insights as your documented J's mlc taught me so much that you mentored me without even knowing.

I myself am not a stander.
I was, until six months ago, because, literally, my life depended on it. But as much as I loved my h, I was never very enthusiastic about standing. Too much damage.

My point is not about standers vs. non standers. It is about newbies. There have been times when I felt that the advice given by a veteran was - perhaps - too far removed from the rawness of the early stages for a newbie to connect with, in a meaningful way. 

No, I don't have the time to delve into the archives for cross-referenced examples, it is just a feeling I remember having when I have been reading threads.

As this board gets older the space between the ones who were here first, and the ones who have just arrived, grows. A generation gap.

And I don't mean every old timer, and I don't mean every newbie.

But I do believe that I have a consideration that is valid.

Listen everyone, I am not trying to be argumentative.  But I do have a tender heart for the newbie, and I think that this is the only place where that traumatized soul might have a chance just to breathe, without people wanting their money to "SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE NOW!!' or telling them to "KICK THAT CHEATER TO THE CURB!!"


But where exactly does this happen?  I don’t recognise it. I think people let the new person lead the way.