[MomOfSteel]

I really do need to Marie Kondo this stupid triangle.  My kids returned from their trip and it sounds like not all was perfect in lala land.  The oldest commented that he doesn’t know why they got married as their relationship seems pretty rocky.  The third told me that ow told them their dad was having suicidal thoughts (which really pisses me off, that should not be put on a child).  The third then said they wouldn’t really be surprised if he does commit suicide.  I tried to make sure they know they can always come to me and in no way is it their fault or their responsibility as their dad is an adult and it’s his job to fix himself.  Not sure what else to do about it.  I know it scares them a bit. 

Ex made a comment to me when I made a joking comment about regretting my life choices.  He said, “I already do”.  Who knows what he was referring to, but it seems his fantasy world is crashing in around him although he still wants to blame everything on someone else and continues to not take accountability.  His depression seems to be escalating.

[Helpnewc]

Mom, that is terrible.

Your poor kids. You have done and the only thing you can.

[Treasur]

Well, MoS, your Marie Kondo quip made me laugh out loud this morning. And tbh the ability to find humour in this kind of s$itshow is a sign of your own progress.

I’m sorry that your kids came back with another bit of WTFness, but fwiw it sounds as if you did the best anyone could do to support and reassure them. Not an easy situation at all, although if it helps and my memory serves, you are not the only LBS to face that kind of situation.

I can’t recall how old your kids are? Teenage to little? Might be worth reminding us, bc advice from other parents here can be tempered by that. Dealing with this kind of big life stuff in an age appropriate way that consistently teaches them what belongs on their watch and what does not, what we are responsible for and what we can control and not, is a good life lesson but not one that any parent would want to have to rollout in these kind of circs. How are your kids dealing with it?

What I’m reading in your post is a couple of things…
….the ongoing picture that life for your xh and ow is not all sprinkles and unicorns. I don’t know how you feel about that right now.
….your understandable anger that your kids have been exposed by ow to inappropriate adult stuff and that you can’t completely protect them from this kind of disordered behaviour. And I don’t know what, if anything, this leads you to think about triangles and boundaries etc etc.

I would hope that you can see clearly that, at best, ow is an adult with very poor boundaries who likes a triangle. Or in this case, is maybe aiming for a heptagon! (I think it was only ow who shared this info with your kids, not your xh as well?) in reality tbh, ow is using your kids as ‘flying monkeys’ (worth a google) to keep you hooked into the triangle. Bc of course ypur kids are ypur vulnerable spot.

Again jmo, but I think you would be wise to go big on shutting this triangle s$it down now before it gets normalised. How?

What others here have done is to take implied suicidal threats at face value openly and in a matter of fact way….to say to those involved that you are sorry they feel this way, that you would encourage them to seek help and that if you hear this again, you will simply contact the relevant authorities to ask for a welfare check on the person. I did something similar with my xh who talked about suicide in the first year or so….whild also busy unbeknownst to me building his new life with ow lol…I got quite a few 3am phone calls and emails as I recall. Tried to be fixy and supportive initially of course, but as I started to see that there really wasn’t anything I could do about his feelings or actions, I simply said that I was sorry he felt that way and that I would drop a note to the psychiatrist he was seeing at the time to check in on him. Funnily enough, the suicidal calls stopped and he did not take his life. Well not by 2019 which was the last I heard from/of him anyway! (And meanwhile, I was dealing with my own s$itshow of course without any concern or support from him….LBS normal ha ha. I was lucky enough to find cars and kindness from other humans to keep me alive including folks here. Will always feel grateful for that but it was a bit surreal to realise that a virtual stranger cared more about my survival at that time than my then h of 20+ years, took a while to get my head round that)

Again jmo, but I think it would be wise to formally communicate this to your xh and that you have told your kids that this is an inappropriate conversation for ow to have with them. And then do nothing more - although it’s another good reason to sharply reduce ypur contact with ow as a minimum. To treat this as a hard line in the sand for you. To just say No to it. But also to remember that ow is responsible for her own behaviour and xh for his own…he is not responsible for her behaviour anymore than you are and probably can’t control it much either. He IS responsible for bring her into your kids’ lives and he is responsible for how he deals with that of course.

 Disordered folks with poor boundaries are too self-obsessed to be influenced by words usually, only actions. And refusing to engage with her triangulation sends a pretty clear message as well as reducing your exposure to this kind of BS. These kinds of folks are unlikely to change; they are as they are and they have their own way of dealing with that regardless of what you do or don’t do. Any healthy adult would know that this was an inappropriate and potentially damaging conversation to have with young humans and so would exercise some self-control. She didn’t bc that is who she is. And that is nothing to do with who you are, who your kids are or what your marriage was. I hope you can see that. Ditto, your xh’s feelings and the pattern of their relationship says zip about you or your kids….its more like a neighbour leaving trash on their own front lawn tbh using the Marie Kondo analogy lol.

Bc of course ypur priority is ypur kids….and kids tend to learn about things like boundaries from what they see you doing rather than what you say.

I imagine it is also possible that you have some other feelings perhaps….sone concern for your xh, maybe some anger, idk. And that’s understandable, however it is you feel. You and your kids did not choose to be in this kind of situation or have to deal with any of this kind of chaos or drama.

Again jmo, but it is also a good reminder of the limits of your own control and responsibility, regardless of how you feel. Idk if you have an IC, but if you do, you might find it helpful to think this through out loud. It’s not uncommon tbh that getting serious about one’s own life boundaries forces us to think hard about what we can control and what we can’t, and thus what we want to do about what we can’t. To be able to see the losing triangles that do not add good stuff to our lives but take away from us in service of someone else’s benefit who usually has no real concern about our needs at all. And that we are just not obliged to sacrifice our wellbeing on the altar of someone else’s dysfunction. Plus tbh, practically speaking, folks who act this way tend to have an endless hole that can never be filled regardless of what we do.,,so seeing that it is futile as well as not your job tends to bring some alternative options.  But imho it can also bring some sorrow or grief up to the surface too bc accepting the real limits of what we own as individuals sometimes also means accepting unwelcome realities or letting go of some hopes. Complicated, right?

Sending you a hug from here and a wish that 2025 bring less BS and more Kondo-like stuff that sparks joy for you and your kids.

[MomOfSteel]

Wow, I guess it’s been a year now since I’ve been on here.  The wasband keeps making the same circles chasing his tail.  While seemingly better for a while, we are back at the same spot as last year apparently with his mental health although it seems even more precarious.  It makes me ill to think I thought he had made it through some of the darker periods but he seems to be even worse off.  He confided in me, and at least I had the opportunity to suggest he get back to counseling and consider mood stabilizers.  I hope he actually does it.  I don’t want that additional trauma in any of our lives and despite everything I want him to be okay. 

Occasionally I think he’s starting to come through his MLC but who knows.  I suppose that maybe he’s reached the depression stage and is out of replay a bit (yes I know we shouldn’t stage watch). He still just seems to be internally fighting himself. 

With this newest loop this past week I’m finding myself thrown back into a trauma response and feeling very dysregulated myself. I know I need to just let myself feel it and take care of me.  I’m also just sick of having things throw me still.  Luckily I can easily bump my own counseling back up to weekly visits until things calm again.  Aside from this newest upset, I’ve actually been in a pretty good spot.  I’ve started getting myself back out there a bit.  All it took was an old friend realizing I was single and reaching out.  It’s nothing serious but it feels really nice after so long.  As we both talked about our divorces, he asked me if I still wished my ex and I were married.  It was a weird moment to verbalize that no, I don’t and realize I meant every word.  I want him to be happy and successful and for me to have the same with someone else.  I’m feeling more ready to move forward but sometimes feel like I’m being pulled back a bit by the last strings that haven’t snapped. 

I’ve continued to try to work on myself and got a truth bomb from my therapist this past week.  As I was trying to take accountability for something that wasn’t mine to hold, she told me I keep doing this to try and have control over situations that feel completely out of my control.  I realized how right she was, I think so many of us end up trying to take responsibility for things our MLCer shoves on us and we do it to feel more in control, if it’s our fault then we have the power to fix it.  In reality, sometimes we just have no control over what happens. 

[UrsaMajor]

Ah yes, the good old "Trying to control things that are out of control..... "

Been there, done that.

Yes, learning to tell the difference between what we CAN control (or is ours to control) and controlling that vs. what is outside our remit and, quite frankly, not our circus or our Monkeys to deal with. The vast majority of the MLC shenanigans fall in the 2nd category....

It is a learning process..... a LONG learning process.... 

[MomOfSteel]

With kids in the mix it’s unfortunately really hard to completely step away from the mess.  Since my monkeys visit the circus.  I find myself counting down to my counseling session as that usually helps.  Midlife crisis is a cruel thing. I’m so sick of dealing with the fall out.  Even four years down it’s just still affecting our lives. Two of my kids are completely fed up with the emotional merry-go-round and forgiveness is not coming easily for them this time.  I worry about how that will affect their dad’s mental health.  He feels like everyone hates him and I worry he’s not strong enough to withstand the kids rejection right now.  I am so scared he will do something drastic.  I also feel like my kids are drawing their own boundaries and I can’t really fault them for that.  They have been hurt so badly.  I don’t want to have the hurt of losing their father on top of that. 

[UrsaMajor]

So true.

With kids, it is a whole different ball game. Mine are 18 and 15 now. The 18-year-old is now beginning an apprenticeship for becoming a Travel Agent and the 15-year old is struggling. Since Mom was/is the MLC'er, it has not been easy for me to observe but there is not much I can do besides being there for my 15-year-old if needed. Mom has spun a web of stories however that makes it difficult and my 14-year-old is in a period of little to no contact with me whereas my 18-year-old and I meet regularly at the gym or to do things together because he is not buying what mom is selling....