[Tailspin]

Thanks all for the advice. 

Forgiveness is not required.  You can have acceptance and be able to manage just fine. You accept that this is who your W is at this time (might be forever, but at least at this time). She doesn't think she is doing anything wrong so does not require your forgiveness. You accept that you can do nothing about what she does and how she feels. You accept that at this point, everything is a transaction: money, kids, time with kids, everything. That is all it is to her. Put forgiveness aside and put on your business transaction hat just for now.

You're right.  I guess I was again losing my acceptance that this is who she is right now.  You're right about it all being business right now. 

In case it helps, fwiw, I’m not sure they do hate us exactly. I think perhaps they hate what we represent to them, see us as an infuriating barrier to whatever it is they want and less of a human and more like an object. In most cases, it seems to me that MLCers - and people doing bad things that hurt others - dehumanise the object of their anger, frustration or shame. It’s how humans give themselves metaphorical permission to do bad things. And that’s not about you or me as the ‘object’….it’s about their way of doing what they are doing and feeling ok enough about it to keep doing it while avoiding the discomfort of empathy for someone else’s shoes. Or the awkwardness of holding oneself responsible for the effects of one’s own actions. Truthfully, I’m not sure they even see us as real people enough to hate….i think they resent what we represent to them some of the time, and don’t think about us at all most of the time. At best, it’s pretty immature; at worst it is almost pathological.

Still not about you though. 

Great perspective.  I guess I'm still recovering from all this and need to accept the reality.  I guess thinking that my wife will have empathy is foolish right now because she's just not capable right now. 

I was speaking to a widowed friend recently; she said she felt those feelings as well, and it obviously isn't her husband's fault that she has to do this, but no matter what the reason, he isn't there and she does.  So I think we need to be kind to ourselves, recognize the feelings, know that they are there, and then, as my go-to expression was for a long time : "put on my big-girl pants and get on with it". 

Keep swimming, just keep swimming....

I need get better at this.  Appreciate it!  I was a in bad place the other day and feeling all that weight.

[Tailspin]

Journaling
So my wife has exited the home to her new apartment.  I didn't say anything to her as she rushed her packing.  We separated kitchen items like pots and pans, and tabletop appliances.  She took other things too when I wasn't looking but I didn't say anything.  They didn't mean anything to me.  Seemed like a zombie apocalypse was coming and she has a few hours to get out.
She waited for me to go the store to bolt out with the kids for her first night at the apartment to avoid any contact.  She dropped the kids off the next day and bolted away again to avoid even saying hi.  Amazing...  The avoidance of any contact is her soul purpose.
My kids are still in shock but handling it ok for now.  I have continued life as normal for them.  We have a new routine I guess, and we will all adjust.
I had a great talk with a good friend of mine this weekend and he basically said that he has seen this so many times in his life and whether it was MLC, being an avoidant, or just being a jerk, it always came down to them hating themselves.  He said to not take it personal and just look at it like a season in your life.  He said making it personal is what causes your own pain.  Accept that they don't want you because you remind them of their own failures and missed opportunities.  I slept on all that and thought that he was right.  I guess taking it personally has been my source of pain and sadness. 

[HeavenlyFocus]

She waited for me to go the store to bolt out with the kids for her first night at the apartment to avoid any contact.  She dropped the kids off the next day and bolted away again to avoid even saying hi.  Amazing...  The avoidance of any contact is her soul purpose.

Hi TS,

Like I indicated previously, your W is behaving exactly like my XW behaved and is still behaving now with the avoidance.   My XW seems to do ok with texting but can't handle any in person contact.   I've actually gotten used to it and appreciate now the peace that it brings.   I agree with your friend about not taking it personal.   For the MLCer, you just have to let them be because it was never about you.   

HF

[Flummoxed]

I had a great talk with a good friend of mine this weekend and he basically said that he has seen this so many times in his life and whether it was MLC, being an avoidant, or just being a jerk, it always came down to them hating themselves.  He said to not take it personal and just look at it like a season in your life.  He said making it personal is what causes your own pain.  Accept that they don't want you because you remind them of their own failures and missed opportunities.  I slept on all that and thought that he was right.  I guess taking it personally has been my source of pain and sadness. 

Thanks so much for sharing, Tailspin. Honestly, I had to come back to this a couple of times just as a reminder. A large part of me understands it’s not personal, but it’s safe to say that there’s that little voice that likes to pop up now and then to raise a little doubt.

My STBXH did the same thing- hid some things, tucked some items who knows where when I flew back to pack my things. Thankfully it wasn’t anything important (that I’m aware of). How do you all feel now that you’ve got some breathing room? I agree with HeavenlyFocus- very thankful for the peace that comes from not walking on eggshells.

[Tailspin]

For the MLCer, you just have to let them be because it was never about you.   

That was the hardest thing for me to accept.  Sad part to me was seeing some of my wedding pictures thrown in the garbage because she wanted the frames.  That hurt real bad. 

Thanks so much for sharing, Tailspin. Honestly, I had to come back to this a couple of times just as a reminder. A large part of me understands it’s not personal, but it’s safe to say that there’s that little voice that likes to pop up now and then to raise a little doubt.

My STBXH did the same thing- hid some things, tucked some items who knows where when I flew back to pack my things. Thankfully it wasn’t anything important (that I’m aware of). How do you all feel now that you’ve got some breathing room? I agree with HeavenlyFocus- very thankful for the peace that comes from not walking on eggshells.

The not walking on eggshells is better.  I feel like healing can occur without the constant scowl or outbursts she would have.  The little doubt still sits in the back of my head.  It's a dull and passive thing but still persists.  Most likely because this all still doesn't feel real.  We are nearing our anniversary and I can't believe where this  journey has gone. 

[Treasur]

I suspect you will find, even if you are not consciously trying,that your system will take a breath out. You’ll probably find you sleep a bit better, eat a bit better and breathe a bit differently. I think one doesn’t quite know the sheer drag of it all until you get a bit of space away from it.

[KayDee]

Accept that they don't want you because you remind them of their own failures and missed opportunities.  I slept on all that and thought that he was right.  I guess taking it personally has been my source of pain and sadness.

When you wrote this, I was, at the time reminding myself of a question I asked myself early on 'why I am feeling so terrible about someone else's hideous behaviour towards me?'  I think the two statements are connected and I meant to respond when you posted this. Now, I guess I want to remind you of your friend's statement. And add mine. And apply it to your W throwing your wedding photos in the trash. Unnecessarily horrible behaviour, whatever way you slice it. Treasur wrote something great on AmazingLove's thread about being proud of ourselves for not being hideous in these circumstances. For trying to be compassionate, trying to understand. Our reactions and behaviour during these worst of times says a lot about us. The MLCs actions say a lot about them, oh, and nothing about anyone else. Including the non-crisis spouse. It takes a LOT of time to finally see all this clearly. I was listening to a therapist talking about healing the other day, he said (I will paraphrase) 'awareness is not healing. It's like knowing you need to have an operation for an injury and talking endlessly about the wound, what it looks like, how it happened etc, and never actually doing the operation'. This really shifted something in my thinking. I've been meaning to share with us brave souls here.

[forthetrees]

That´s an impactful way to view it- the healing:operation analogy vs. awareness:description. Thank you!

[Tailspin]

I was listening to a therapist talking about healing the other day, he said (I will paraphrase) 'awareness is not healing. It's like knowing you need to have an operation for an injury and talking endlessly about the wound, what it looks like, how it happened etc, and never actually doing the operation'. This really shifted something in my thinking. I've been meaning to share with us brave souls here.

KayDee, that is a great analogy.  I have been focused on my children and working some side jobs for the cash I need to hold me over.  I have accepted what this life is right now the best I can.  Healing is a process of it's own as many of us here realize.  I'm trying not hold anger in my heart.  Although sometimes I still feel it there.  I hope to better control that.

[Nas]

I was listening to a therapist talking about healing the other day, he said (I will paraphrase) 'awareness is not healing. It's like knowing you need to have an operation for an injury and talking endlessly about the wound, what it looks like, how it happened etc, and never actually doing the operation'.

I want to also highlight this REALLY important statement. In fact I think that awareness can be detrimental with no work behind it. That work is hard to get started on because it often involves addressing things we would rather not.
This does not just apply to healing from the pain of the end of a relationship. More often than not, in order to heal  completely by gaining deeper understanding of that ending, it involves going levels deeper. By way of example, I’ve been struggling with having the courage and empowerment to say what I want without feeling unsafe or insecure, and the first step in that was fully owning that the insecurity and feeling of being unsafe is sometimes, not always, coming from within me and born out of my past experiences and core beliefs… something I’ve long been aware of but was too afraid to address (for various reasons involving past experiences and core beliefs…see how a cycle can loop endlessly if not stopped with deliberate action?)

I just wanted to share that in case it helps add another layer to KayDee’s very important quote.