[Chrysalis]

I totally agree Ready.  I'm sure the reason why this now seems to be more prevalent in Western cultures is that we are much more youth orientated (or is it oriented) that we used to be.  Some years ago, age and experience was much more respected than it is now.  Today's world can make you feel that you are almost on the scrap-heap by the age of forty!

I honestly don't know what in my ex-partner's past has caused this.  I'm not aware of any particular problems in his youth - or at least, not anything that he told me about.  I do know that he hated big occasions - family or otherwise - but no-one but me would have any idea that he was not enjoying himself.  Perhaps there is unfinished business with the OW.  I think he had an affair with her when she was on her first marriage thirty years ago but I don't know.  As far as I can see it all seems to be narcissistic with no feeling for anyone else but himself (or possibly the wonderful OW)....  At the moment there is certainly no soul-searching at all.

[BonBon]

Ready,
I think I'm the one who first brought up other cultures and I did so because from what I've read from a few different sources, is that MLC is almost unheard of in the East, as opposed to the West.  I don't have stats on that but I have read it in a few places and as Chrysalis said, this is probably due to our youth obsessed culture, not to mention money and so on. 

So what I mean is I don't believe that those in the East are any less "enlightened" than those who live in the West so I'm sure if there is self actualization being done, it would be done there too.  And yet, they have little reporting of MLC.  Does that make sense?

My actual point is that I agree with what you said as quoted below:

"What amazes me is how we try to apply a noble cause "self-actualization" towards a new mindset that is really a focus on narcissitic feelings and hedonisitic actions. Which in my book is trying to put lipstick on the proverbial pig."

Well said.  I agree.

[TrustingMyHP]

So much great stuff has been posted in response to this topic.  I want to thank each of you.  Each post has given me something to think about.

It's a fascinating topic and one that can be looked at in numerous ways.  I've studied Jung (Hollis is a strict Jungian analyst) just a bit and, while I find myself attracted to much of what Jung believed, I do also sometimes think "This guy's full of it"!

The question of the "price" to be paid for finding oneself, self-actualization, individuation, becoming your authentic Self, whatever you want to call it, is going to be high in all cases, whether a full-blown MLC is involved or not.  Trying to live a conscious, examined life requires time, (the great gift our MLCers give us LBSers!) effort, (reading, journaling, meditating, all the many ways of GALing, etc.) faith, persistence and, maybe most of all, patience.  We LBSers are on this quest of individuation, though we may not view it that way.  I certainly didn't in the very earliest days after BD but now I can begin to discern that "becoming conscious" is my work.

Anyway, I've loved this topic and thanks so much to everyone who added their thoughts.

TMHP

M  58
H  60
D  22
M  38 yrs
BD  Jan., '11
H living with OW

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Yes, but the eastern cultures, especially Vietnam, allows for "men" to have fun as part of their normal lifestyle. Hence the "massage parlors" with happy endings, the free flowing alcohol, chain smoking, and gambling are "normal" pursuits of the male regardless of age. While the wives are expected to "accept" this "lifestyle".

My wife is from Vietnam and she is giving the same MLC script that BNW and several others have heard. She too has stated, "I want to be bad...I've always been good." She has made the, "I want to be happy too!"

Just more MLC script to follow.

[Rookie13]

Exactly Ready, It's what each culture is "allowed/brought up" to do that probably brings percentages of MLC up/down. The free'r the society, the free'r the mind to wander, my guess. I'm sure lots of "people" hate "their" lives/marriages in other cultures but the consequences are to risky where as some cultures like our own you free to destroy! Lol.

[Rollercoasterider]

I started to write a response, but as I was writing I realized I had a lot to say and that some of what I had to say I had already written—and it was just sitting there in my notes waiting for me to say more. So I have posted it on the blog. And now I’ll make just a few specific responses here.

Would you guys just stop talking about such interesting topics!  I've been sitting at the computer for several hours listening to Hollis, transcribing, writing, then reading this thread to catch up, then writing, then catching up some more... And I've got to go do some other work. Sweetheart is gone until tomorrow--motorcycle camping and with him gone I should be able to get some more housework done--like organizing my office.

But I did just send my blog post out. It’s in two parts. Tomorrow’s part will go over the Hollis video. And I still have to code it.

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/self-focus/the-middle-passage-embracing-versus-avoiding-part-1

Let me first say I am giving this response without having watched the youtube link you posted.....so take that into consideration.
My issue with what was summarized is this. If the soul is in conflict with one's life (whatever that actually means), and the MLCer needs to change what they have been enduring, that leaves me with this question. Why would they end up having regrets?
I mean if you align one's soul with one's life, why would the MLCer later regret their behavior? And regretting their MLC behavior is common.

Because an MLCer is not aligning their soul with their life. They are running away from the very alignment. It is the difference between a midlife transition and a midlife transition that is at crisis levels.

So confused about the Hollis stuff for the follo

wing reasons:
If this MLC was a search for deeper meaning in life, somehow then I would have thought that the search would be a bit more to the right on the moral compass, you know, less lying and deception than during his previous unhappy life with me. But no, it appears that the search for true meaning in one's life begins with massive lies, betrayal and deception of the largest type…
Secondly why, if they are on a search for themselves, do none of them exhibit charitable traits, you know, where they sacrifice for others, isn't that what the higher meaning of life is all about? Seems that their search is to reach the highest plateau of narcissism.[/quote]
Dr. Hollis talks about The Middle Passage which we call Midlife Transition. A Midlife Crisis is a type of Midlife Transition. Dr. Hollis is not referring specifically to those transitions which reach crisis levels. Midlife Transition is a search for deeper meaning; midlife crisis is rooted in fears. MLCers escape and avoid because they do not  want to face those fears; and MLC is an avoidance of the Midlife Transition.

Am I off base, or is a lot of this psychological terminology a fancy way of discussing the maturation process?

No, you aren’t off base in the least. You should be an editor. You could distill millions of words of psycho mumbo jumbo into a sentence or two!

I'm really not trying to be a wise-*ss here and honestly, I applaud all of you who delve into this heavy stuff but can someone explain to me why MLC's are almost non-existent in other cultures?

Because we have given up or sanitized our rituals. We no longer give sacred honor to rites of passage.

[StandandDeliver]

Have just watched the link fully and I do agree with much of what Dr Hollis is saying. You wil notice that he does make a firm distinction between the process of individuation and that of narcissism, stating that individuation is the almost the antithesis of narcissism.

What I took from this, is that the process of individuation, if traversed with self reflection may result in some well-considered and sometimes huge changes in ones life. However, having an affair is an indication that individuation is not occurring - it is being run from because the individual is still seeking to discover their identity through their ego's reflection in an-other.

MLC as RCR said, is transition (mid life individuation) gone haywire where the transition is avoided because of the discomfort of what it might necessitate in terms of addressing oneself, and thus the transition becomes a narcissistic adventure into avoidance (crisis), if that makes any sense...

[honour]

  She tells me that I need to find my own path because I am the one who is lost. 

Lost in what?

But now she would rather have a more like-minded companion for her journey. 

Self discovery doesn't require a companion.

I've read many articles which explain midlife reassessment as a soul's attempt to align one's life with his true nature/gift so he can thrive as someone he is meant to become.  Drastic changes are inevitable and some aspects of the old life will be discarded for the new birth.

The aspects of the old life that are discarded in MLC are honesty, empathy and faithfulness.
If MLC were in some way self-actualization (whatever that means) and if self-actualization were healthy it would not manifest itself in lies, deception, anger, adultery and psychological damage to the children.

MLC is a manifestation of emotional ill health. MLC is for selfish-actualization.

There are philosophies and religions that advocate rebirth or enlightenment but a core component of these "ways" is benevolence and love. Respect for oneself and respect for others. There isn't a lot of respect going on in MLC. It is a disordered mind that rationalizes that self-discovery goes hand in hand with adultery.

I can just imagine a child from a MLC household saying, "I am so pleased for my MLC parent, they discovered the true them, they are now at peace and at one with life. They are self-actualized and the world will now be a better place. It is just a shame I have been left with anxiety, depression, low self-esteem and abandonment neurosis due to the trauma of all that happened between my parents.

honour

[exiled]

Thanks for your participation in this discussion, guys.  I've learned a lot from your posts.

Hollis appears to have had MLC or transition.  He walked away from a secure job and marriage and later found a new career and a new wife.  He seems to be in much better place now as a result of his MLC.  We know about him because he became a profound, influential, successful psychologist.  I assume he lives his life in harmony with his soul.  What we don't know is the story of his first wife and their children.  Did they all find authentic life for themselves?  Are their lives traumatized or compromised in any way as a result of Hollis’ MLC?  If they are, should Hollis be held responsible?  Or, since no matter what life throws at you, ultimately you are responsible for your own life, is it their own responsibility to find acceptance and peace despite whatever hardship they had to endure?  Anybody would agree that reneging on promises or commitment is wrong. But can/should we judge MLCers’ actions from the moral standpoint per se?  What other context available for us to assess this confounding phenomenon?

[Rookie13]

Exiled, My father is a clinical psychologist, he has helped me through my ex's MLC although he tells me that psychologists do not recognize it as a MLC and "only" see it as a product of the their environment for the most part must have been bad in some sort. I also asked my therapist if she recognized it as a MLC and she to confirmed they don't "view" it or call it that and she to believes "cognitive therapy" is the way to go as that pulls the "buried" stuff to the conscience and then can be dealt with by the MLCer.

I am not surprised Dr. Hollis also doesn't see it as a crisis yet calls it a transition as to not be held "responsible" for the damage it probably caused in his family. Just my opinion.

My father also had a MLC years back and had a 10 month affair with a much younger woman and I could now tell he was in "denial" to thinking it was a MLC and  blamed it on the way my mother treated him. Hmmmmmm. He chose to blame it on my mothers background and her treating him badly and "driving" him to another woman. My fathers parents had died and 2 brothers of his both at the age of 59 with in a 5 yr span, Hmmmmm.

Sound like a MLC anyone?