[osb]

Fascinating topic, kikki et al. I think the medical community (such as it is) pretty much knows the concept of MLC - but given the pop associations with that phrase (red car, fast women, big joke), they don't bother to use the term. Instead we get 'situational depression', 'dysphoria', 'life transition' etc etc...

I think all depression is rooted in body issues, Anjae. We are a bundle of electricity and chemicals, at our most basic. There isn't a distinction between physical and mental at the cellular level. Hormonally-triggered depression (post-partum, thyroid etc) isn't privileged over what we may consider 'essential' or psychological depression. The former group has additional problems to solve, outside the brain itself. But inside, the same morass.

That depression more commonly presents in men as anger and agitation is well described. There may be no classical 'depressive' symptoms at all - no sadness, no hopelessness, no torpor. Just madly revving the gears with a wheel slipped loose, and a fierce anger. Not every major depression seems to require (or responds to) AD's or other drugs; as not everyone responds to counselling. Some depressions seem to run their full course despite all, and like a psychotic break, run through the depressive's entire stock of neurotransmitters to leave them a burnt out blank slate.

FWIW this is the picture I saw in my H. And he's (like me) a member of the medical world. However he's had a life-long fear/loathing of mental illness - his parents are definitely personality-disordered, so there's been a lot of what I say I hate, won't happen to me magical thinking going on. Still, a recognizable major depression disguised as anger. Since H's mental state has (spontaneously) improved, the gear-slipped racing has slowed, and he's become capable of some self-reflection. A few weeks ago he actually spoke about it (mind you, he was very sleepy, and immediately upon waking up, promptly denied this had anything to do with him!). Said "You know, all the years I worked in ER I thought people with mental health issues were just losers. And now that i've been there... i still think: just losers". Loser - that's the label he gives himself now. But to me, these sentences were a small insight into his MLC mental journey.

[kikki]

Yes but get stuck and starting looping is not valid for depression caused by thyroid, PND or any other condition that does derive from feelings/thoughts. It is rooted in clear physical/body issues.

Anjae -Have to be honest here - I'm struggling to understand your thinking.

the stuck thoughts and looping would most likely be due to 3 or 4
and the thyroid and PND due to reason number 1
with possible physiological changes due to reason 2 as well

[osb]

FWIW, they now have developed rat models of mental health automatisms - there's one with obsessive compulsive disorder, for example!!! (it's actually characterized in impressive detail, few neurotransmitters awry resulting in little mice running in circles shredding their own skins with their claws... toxically sad, actually).

Given my H started his MLC with a mad burst of OCD behaviours, i thought this was fascinating to read about in a biological sense. Though it gave me the creeps.

All psychology is ultimately biological, in my humble view.

[kikki]

That depression more commonly presents in men as anger and agitation is well described. There may be no classical 'depressive' symptoms at all - no sadness, no hopelessness, no torpor. Just madly revving the gears with a wheel slipped loose, and a fierce anger.

That is the most perfect description osb.  'madly revving the gears with a wheel slipped loose, and a fierce anger'

So happy to hear that your H's gear-slipped racing has improved and he is capable of some reflection. 

All psychology is ultimately biological, in my humble view.

I would humbly agree with you osb

[Anjae]

Sorry Kikki, I think I did not wrote it clear enough, or may have misunderstood something. 

All psychology is ultimately biological, in my humble view.

Also in mine.

Your husband still thinks people with mental issues are just losers, OSB?... 

Must confess that for me, until not that long ago, it was addicts. They were nothing more than losers who did not want to change. Then the brother of my cousin who had MLC start to tell me about nicotine and the brain and I end up doing those Coursera neuroscience and genetic short courses.

[kikki]

all on the same page then 

[Anjae]

all on the same page then 

Yes 

[SSG]

I should have seen it coming, being my father was a Clinical Psychologist, worked a lot with the courts, specialized in child abuse cases.  I think it was all too up-close and personal in my sitch .  Blind I was. 

I spent many hours looking at his DSM each time a new version came out. H faced emotional trauma at age 7...
death of father.  No predisposition for depression evident in his family. Perhaps from fathers side...no contact with that part of the family for 55 years.  Possibly then.

Thyroid problems are genetically evident in his family (H, MIL, GMIL) as well
as low blood pressure...making him tired and his body temperature always low, he complained about being cold.

Due to the thyroid issue, he would get mad at the most stupid things, explode and then it was
over in a matter of minutes.  Same for his mother and stories I heard about his grandmother. And if he went three days without the thyroid suppliments...you saw it in words and action.

I was the one who suggested he take something to calm him down.  I was the one who suggested the Prozac......OH, had I only known what was coming down the road, never, ever would have done that.   I had a dog with OCD (working with Tufts Univ. and Dr Dodman...we used Prozac)  Where my idea came from.  Helped the dog lead a somewhat normal life.

The explosive episodes were nearly non-existant now.
Then came the low testosterone...followed by ED (6 yrs ago)
Caused by the prozac and thyroids?

Then the thyroids were removed (4 yrs ago) ...H had trouble adjusting to the meds.
He was constantly tired, no energy, he was frustrated as he was a physically active person. 
He slept alot,  waking up at 10 and then 3 hours later, taking a nap for 2 hours.
 
Then came my malignant tumor, loss of a kidney and tax problems.

6 months later....OW and the Affair began.

The year before BD he was addicted to Angry Birds on his phone, did not see it as escape...but it was right in front of me.
 He told me he thinks he is depressed. BD..said he is having a MLC.

Now the problems are piling up, financially.  He cannot deal with it anymore.  Looks like it followed him there (paradise did not live up to its name)

What will he do? Not the suicide type.  He has become the rabbit in the
hole.  But rock bottom is around the corner.  He will bring me down with him, unfortunately.
Do I offer a suggestion that will save us or keep my mouth shut? 

He has 3 of the 4 causes of depression...No 4 I never saw.
I would love to talk to my father but he passed away 5 years ago.

[hobo1]

Fascinating topic.  This would make a great research paper....  If only it wasn't all so personal.

I've had a pretty traumatic childhood, my father and mother both passed away when I was 8 and 9.  I'm sure that has some impact on how I am...  Perhaps I am also prone to MLC.  I don't believe I've experienced real clinical depression.... despite xW's MLC mess.

As far as xW goes...  She has every symptom of an Avoidant Personality Disorder.  I've known her for 23 years, and am so surprised at myself that i didn't realize it.  I knew she was shy, and perhaps a little immature...  but to have EVERY symptom.  I didn't realize until BD, and I started to do some research.

Her family also has a history of thyroid disease.  No one that I knew of had MLC though...  She was emotionally abandoned by her mother at an early age...  was very passive aggressive, had this avoidant personality...  felt bored...  stay at home mom, perimenopausal etc....

I guess it is all just a perfect combination.

[SSG]

Fascinating topic.  This would make a great research paper....  If only it wasn't all so personal.

I've had a pretty traumatic childhood, my father and mother both passed away when I was 8 and 9.  I'm sure that has some impact on how I am...  Perhaps I am also prone to MLC.  I don't believe I've experienced real clinical depression.... despite xW's MLC mess.

As far as xW goes...  She has every symptom of an Avoidant Personality Disorder.  I've known her for 23 years, and am so surprised at myself that i didn't realize it.  I knew she was shy, and perhaps a little immature...  but to have EVERY symptom.  I didn't realize until BD, and I started to do some research.

Her family also has a history of thyroid disease.  No one that I knew of had MLC though...  She was emotionally abandoned by her mother at an early age...  was very passive aggressive, had this avoidant personality...  felt bored...  stay at home mom, perimenopausal etc....

I guess it is all just a perfect combination.

There goes "thyroid" again...I never thought it was connected to depression!  Hobo, I read somewhere that when a death in the family happens before the age of 10...you can almost count on it, in their adult life, a MLC will occur.    I think the author called them Chaos Kids.  I found it...Larry Bilotta. Here is the link. where he explains his theory.
http://www.marriage-success-secrets.com/

So you and W both had tragedies in your family before the age of 10.  Coupled with thyroid problems.

SSG