[LifeGoesOn]

For Freddy:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2007/09/07/ask-dr-leedom-how-can-i-get-my-away-from-the-psychopathic-con-artist%E2%80%9D/

Much of the advice follows the advise here....

Also, I wonder if the contact level of the MLCer correlates with the alienator's placement on a spectrum of  the psychopath/sociopath/personality disorders. hmmmm

[Freddygone]

Thank you LifeGoesOn,
That article is really interesting and clearly describes typically what I am up against although the isolation started way back 2 years ago and only fullyacheived about 2 months ago after being apart (my wife and I) for a little over a year and a half, but we were still communicating amicably. However it seems that this OM and indeed my wife's solicitor do not like that situation of amicability. So I communicate only when necessary via email and text, explaining nice things I have done, car repairs , paid bills, insurance etc as it is the Family home, but I do not receive a response. However in a recent email sent to my daughters (which I was copied in) regarding Christmas arrangements, the tone of my wife has seriously shifted (in the last few weeks) to a softer, more regretful tone that I have not seen in the past 4 years. She recognises that WE have made many mistakes and that this situation will not last forever.
Interesting shift, but I don't think I should respond directly or make any comment.
Our next meeting will be as a family at my eldest daughters graduation in mid November and I think I need to be non judgemental and calm. The predator hates these family get togethers and in the past has ALWAYS interupted them with either a text or phone call.
It is almost a year since the last get together, so he must be getting quite desperate now, don't you think? One thing about LBS is that we have patience.   

[Anjae]

Hi LG and Freddy,

I know it was for Freddy, but thanks for the link, LG. Freddy, I think my husband, his OW2 and husband lawyer that is a friend of OW2, pretty much resembles you wife, her OM and her solicitor.

Maybe LG is right and the type of personality/disorder of the alienator makes a difference. During OW1, and in the time when he was alone, between OW1 and OW2, even if I saw a lot of mosters, even if husband keep doing lots of mean things and not helping me at all, we would still talk, there were never any fault divorce processes against me.

Since OW2, immediate divorce papers that were unacetable, followed by fault divorce processes. Husband very, very afraid of talking to me, always saying, maybe he should let the lawyers talk. Unlike during OW1, he never approached me for a chat, nothing. He vanished, I went NC.

When I used to go dark during OW1 he would always connect me. Now, since OW2, and I know he is a vanisher, it is like someone is controlling him, not letting him come near, taking advantage of is confusion, anger, crisis. Not only keeping him away from me but also from our home town and his mother.

I know that both times, before the two fault divorce processes he filled against me OW2 had an active part on it. I also know that OW2 never leaves my husband go anywhere on his on, and if he does so he must return to their home right away, he cannot stay overnight anywhere (not even on his mum on sister’s house) on his own.

In the link LG posted it said to patiently wait for the honeymoon phase to be over and that the person must realise for itself the nature of the alienator. Well, their honeymoon phase must be a very long one. It is been over 3 years and, even from a distance, I notice he is more and more overpowered by her. Does not seems to see anything wrong with her. But, how could he, I’m the enemy, right?...

Like Freddy is not afraid of his wife OM I’m not afraid of her. I’ve never talked to husband about her, except to ask if she knew he was married. That was all. Unlike OW1, to me OW2 does not exist.

[Synicca]

As per LG's request....I am going to share 2 very long texts that I received from my H's OW back in May...

Maybe this will help to see where these people live in their heads...

1st text: Synicca, I think you need to stop trying to predict our future and start worrying about your own. I mean come on H doesn't love you nor want you it is time for you to stop with all your bullsh*t and constant crying on his shoulder. really all you do is make him feel sorry for you not make him want to come back to you. the majority of our fights have been because of you and all the bullsh*t...and the lies that have been told. Theonly reason he turns to you is because you are his safety net and that's it....he loves me and if you would lay the F off of him and stop acting like you two are still happily married we would have no problems...so with this said, I suggest you lay off and move on. by you doing all that you have been doing is what causes us to fight..which is what is causing his pain....gee maybe you would read that on the internet with all the research you do.

My response was...."believe what you want OW, I will not change anything I do for you"

2nd text: no, but I expect a certain amount of respect for him and I from you...I may be the other woman, BUT I didn't cause him to stray that was between you and him for whatever reason..and yes your inability to let him go has alot to do with it CAUSE YOU cause him grief cause you are hurting..and wont let go with all your emails about your thoughts and feelings...and it should be about D and that is it. I understand you need to talk every now and then but it seems to be all the time....maybe I am wrong..but this is how I see it.


( I didn't respond )

But the thing is....I hadn't been texting or calling H at all....I had sent him emails from right after BD...and a few things on MLC and andropause...lol

I am sure at the time...he told her many lies...( continues to do so) blamed it all on me and that is fine....but I crack up every time I read this....There was more convo later that day....but it was deleted by accident..ugh! 

Mind you....There was alot of mis-spelled words in her text...but in order for you all to understand, I corrected it....
She is 38 Oh and her signature on her cell is " H's Girl <3 " 

[NewBeginnings]

Synicca ~ Her text are funny.  Thing is, our H's lie to OW and tell them how bad we are, how awful we treated them.  These OW have no clue what is really going on.   I have never had any contact with my H's OW.  She and her family blocked me on FB.  That shows me she is threatened by me or afraid of me.  She knows I am a lot better person than she is, and I am.  She is the total opposite of me.  There is no comparison what so ever between the two of us.  I'm still shocked my H fell for such a low life piece of trailer trash that lost custody of her son.
But I know it's MLC and he is her Knight and Shining Armour.  It does make me laugh. 

NB

[Anjae]

Agree with NB, spouses tell the alienator whatever suits them. They do not know us nor how our lives together were like.

But, Syn, you bother reply an email from OW?... It would never cross my mind receive an email, text or phone call from OW, let alone answer...

OW is right in one thing, she did not cause him to stray. No OW/OM cause our spouses to stray and the alienator are not the reason why they left. They stayed because they have problems.

Funny to see she knows she is the OW.

Still, like I always tell everyone, my issues with Mr Jones are between I and him. Not betwenn I, him and OW. And OW is not my problem.

[LettingGo]

Freddy, you don't have to "DO" anything.... a STRONG LBS is full of light and forgiveness... living their lives IN THE LIGHT.... the affair is all lies and deceit.... You are not lying, or cheating.... you are not ANGRY with the world... you are LIVING LIFE the best you can, with some disheartening circumstances... like most people do....

The MLCer WISHES and LONGS for whatever you are having.... the affair partner is THREATENED because they can only offer the MLCer a lot of "You poor baby.... no one understands you but me... let's be miserable and angry together!!".... eventually, the MLCer NOTICES that you are "HAPPY" in spite of your circumstances.... the very thing they left you to find!! How can that be??? Did they make a mistake?

[Anjae]

The MLCer WISHES and LONGS for whatever you are having.... the affair partner is THREATENED because they can only offer the MLCer a lot of "You poor baby.... no one understands you but me... let's be miserable and angry together!!".... eventually, the MLCer NOTICES that you are "HAPPY" in spite of your circumstances.... the very thing they left you to find!! How can that be??? Did they make a mistake?

Do you really think so, LG? Is it not more, let's have fun together and be happy? Even if they are not...And how can they notice a thing when they are vanishers?...Well, I know they notice. There are always ways of finding what you want to find.

Of course they did a mistake!  They just take ages to find out! 

[angelgirl]

The OW in my situation wrote to me that i "should summon all my strength to deal with a painful situation." In other words, "you will need strength to get over the fact that your h is with me and that's it." EGO

She did for sure say "you poor baby, you aren't understood at home. I hate this job too. Let's leave our free-loading spouses and be together. Your W is sweet, but backwards and not sophisticated like us. You have nothing in common with her. She'll find someone in church. You and I will travel. I don't get as overly involved with the kids like your W does." OW found the attorney, and said that an affair was not fair to her own H, and that they should get divorces at the same time. She was sure her H would give her no trouble in divorce (actually he was happy to give the divorce it turns out, but sued her for every dime), and she was going to move my H in her house with at D15 within 4 months of a divorce. EGO

she manipulates and likes men she can control, but then doesn't respect them when they don't stand up to her. She later said my H could not set foot in my house when he visited. She called him "weak" and feared I'd manipulate him.  a picture of him with his arm around me on FB at my D13 birthday party made her lose her temper and throw things at him at the office. The she broke down and started crying and blamed it on PMS. She kept crying "you still love her??? no you don't!!! You just feel bad for her. You feel guilty, that's not love. You'll be sad again..." Then. later, "You must feel good knowing she wants you, my H was happy to go..." (awe poor thing. ie, "commiserate with me").

Knowing her ego and her way of thinking did help me deal with my H. Knowing what she offered and my way of poking holes in it worked as I hoped. I chipped at her ego. I acted in ways that were opposite of her predictions. She didn't understand why I would file for divorce but still stand for the marriage. She didn't understand why I didn't kick him out and nail him to the wall. She didn't understand why I didn't blast her. She didn't understand why I let him in the house like nothing happened. She started to think  i was pretty (she thought I was ugly) now that I was FB. I wasn't at all what she thought. My H seemed concerned that he thought men were circling around me. My Standing yet Detached attitude confounded her. She said I just wanted the security of his money. But i said that if should we get divorced "i wasn't worried," and i smiled as if I wasn't concerned with that at all. She met my H's cousin and insulted me to them, prompting an ugly curse-word from her son. Then OW made a terrible mistake. She made fun of our D13's looks. She thought this was an insult directed at me, but this bothered H alot. She didn't know me. She didn't know our family. So how can she offer him all the things she offered? Maybe she everything she said was unreliable.... H started to break away.

fast forward to when he dumped her. He said, among other things,  "i have to got back to my family." She said, "you planned this the whole time, didn't you?" She threw his stuff out of the car and called him "too weak" and that he and I were crazy and "deserve each other."

my H joined us on Vacation (he wasn't out of the tunnel, but he was dedicated to being back). Then, after we all returned, and he went back to work, where OW was, and the other coworkers were clearly eyeballing him and walking on eggshells. H didn't call OW.

OW sent an email after three days and said, "you obviously aren't going to talk to me, so that's your answer. You have no soul and you used me. You will use other women and well and you will never be happy. You and your W are fools and you are setting a poor example for your D's."
She said more, but my H won't tell me that. (OOOO i wish i could see that email)
He tried to answer "i'm sorry...i was going through something...maybe one day we can be friends again..."  (Oh c'om. Really???" She and I agree on this one: NO WAY!)

You know what's coming....
OW writes back that he is a bullsh**ter and is never to contact her again and then more stuff my H won't tell me. (I told him to take whatever she threw. Let's face it. he deserves it)

OW said to a co-worker she cried her eyes out and her family was right about him. They warned her he was a man in MLC and would eventually go back to his wife and she's lucky it happened now. But all she kept saying is that my H left her "holding the bag."
Did H assure her he'd be there in their  Adventure in leaving their spouses? She is very controlling type (described by others this way), so did she move him in that direction? H says he tried to tell her, "don't get a divorce and count on me being there. I'm not sure I want this." I said to H, "did you really say that, or did you think it and say something like, 'I'm not sure I like being a vegetarian' or some other disconnected phrase like you spoke to me before BD?" Let's just say, direct, honest clarity is not his way of speaking. H admits his memory is distorted, missing and altogether unreliable during that time. He does feel guilty at having hurt everyone.

H is responsible for his actions. He strayed, he was a big baby who, boo hoo was bored, unhappy, didn't like the stress, hated getting old and wanted the same attention our teenage D's get. He owed a duty to us, not her. So the buck ends there. But OW's personality played a role too. Knowing her personality gave me a tool, a clue.

This still intrigues me.

angelgirl

[Mamma Bear]

  Love it Angelgirl, How long was he gone?  My BD was feb also. Only 8 months into this. I can't figure out how they compartmentalize everything.
  I , like you, was devastated at first. Could hardly function. H was sooo good to me. I always came first. Then all of a sudden OW Bowser is in and me and the Ds are thrown under the bus. OK I get it  MLC.  She is a picture perfect Affair Down. One day when we were walking down the stairs I mentioned something he took that I wanted back..so nonchalantly he says "Oh well these things are bound to happen."
   I knew then something was seriously wrong. He was acting like "whatever". If it weren't for my Ds 9 and 11 meeting her ONCE 6 weeks after BD (when he popped out after having been GONE for 6 weeks totally) I wouldn't know anything. I have not heard one good thing about her. Opposite of me.
  I guess she was convenient and adoring of him. So painful when I let my mind wander to THEM being all cozy..Now I trust the MLC process.
  People keep saying there are no success stories but I dont find that to be true. If there are not a lot of success stories i credit that to LBS moving on from this insanity. Also the board being so young.
   Trusting God to help H see and appreciate the beautiful and kind forgiving family that he RAN from.  Replay sucks.   Good Luck to you angelgirl as you move forward with all the work involved in rebuilding.