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Author Topic: Discussion The Alienator??? Many questions.....

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Discussion Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#220: October 08, 2011, 09:16:31 PM
People keep saying there are no success stories but I dont find that to be true. If there are not a lot of success stories i credit that to LBS moving on from this insanity. Also the board being so young.
 
There are success stories. Just in a very shorter number than the broken marriages. Yep, LBS do move on and the board is young.

You're on this for 8 months, I'm starting into year 6 and can not see a single sign of Husband's MLC to be ending. The passage of the years change our way of seing the MLC. Also, we start to move faster than they do. The timmings, if the crisis take too long, will not match.

This said, I have no idea why we are not divorced yet. Husband keep fillling for fault divorce, I don't fight it. The process just drags or get closed and we still married... even if we do not have seen each other for over 3 years, there is no marital home, no marrjage, nothing...Odd, very, very odd...



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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#221: October 08, 2011, 09:54:30 PM
  AnneJ, That's my Ds name..ooops may have given myself away..Well everyone can know all about my life when this is over and I write a book.  ;D  and the movie!  LOL!    What should I call it...Trusting in the shell of your former spouse.
   If it's a hit we can call the second one  Trusting in the shell of your former spouseII
  Anne My H was a stay at home dad and I have a very good job. He's been in replay for longer then BD. He has lived a carefree responsibility free life for several years. Almost 5. If he wants to live in an altered state I guess I have no choice with him. Glad he went to UGLY Bowser's. he was taking me for granted in his 'alien teenage mentality"  Still hurts like glass cutting my soul.
    I have keen intuition. I will continue to pray for the best outcome. And I know what that is. Keep on truckin' Mamma! :)  OWs are garbage in my book. When H does rebuild his fragments or whatever the hell his demons are doing then HE will be able to see her for what she is.  A band aid...alcohol...pills..  Satan at work for sure.
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#222: October 09, 2011, 01:45:55 AM
Hear Hear Mamma!!!!!!!!!!
I think our H's are twin brothers.  Only one is not the good twin. ::)

Today, I'm really questioning what there is to hang on to.  If he and OW want each other well what chance do I have to compete with a frizzy haired Belly Dancer who cuts hair. S9 says "OW acts like a teenager and so does H.  Only she looks older than you mum becuase she has heaps of wrinkles."
I know he's been gone only 6 months but they have been together way longer than that and I know he's been in this MLC tunnel years now.  While I thought we were trying to improve our relationship he was 'improving' THEIR relationship behind my back. 
Well, I don't trust him any more.  Tomorrow OW will have her wish.  Property settlement.  (Wonder if she'll get a surprise when she realises there isn't any money that H can bring into their realtionship). Then all she needs is for H to file for divorce next year.  Bet they can hardly contain themselves at the thought of being free together!!!
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BD 18th Oct 2009
exH Left home 9th April 2011
Split with OW3 (fiance) Jan 2016. (no break between OWs).

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#223: October 09, 2011, 06:25:18 AM
Dear MammaBear:
There are success stories. Success also depends on what LBS is willing to take back in the end, and how long they can wait. My sister's H was in replay and strayed twice. It was a 4-year thing. She found out about stray number 2 and gathered up her things and moved in with me. her H was devastated and tore up the house. She would only move in if he changed and went to therapy. He converted to her religion (his choice) and frankly, I don't recognize him. He is a better person now.

My H is the type that puts woman on pedastals. I was on a pedastal. He liked to be taken care of. He calls me Mama. Yeah, I know....
BD was in Feb, but two years ago, he started to disconnect (i only know this from looking back, because two years ago, I saw nothing). His job changed and OW became a friend. He hated his new boss and he felt put upon. OW felt that way about her division boss and so they began to walk and talk about their troubles. The spring of 2010 the walks became lunches. A friend of ours said he talked about her and he was fascinated. Then our family went to Italy on vacation. He mentally came back to me (not sure why that is, but it is). I noticed from an Agenda he his in his drawer, that he started to have lunches with her in the late summer. I also noted some hotel arrangements beginning the last day of Sept 2010 and throughout Oct thru Dec. H claims he had an argument with our older D about him chewing too loud, and he said at that moment, he quit on us. He considered our marriage dead and anything he did after that was OK with him. We were things now with no feelings, no names, no history. Just things he had to write checks for. In January he was cold. No sex and he'd throw a couple of nasty remarks, like "you eat too much" and "i knew you wouldn't want to go away" and "why can't you at least be a trophy wife???" I responded with, "what's wrong? this seasonal depression is worse this year? What can I do? Can you take your SSRI meds?" He replied that it wasn't me, it was his  job making him a huge crank (by now OW had convinced him that his medications were unhealthy and this her lifestyle would be best for him).

BD was Feb of 2011. I found out about OW a few days later and he moved out. He became irratic and accused me of wanting to steal his money (here OW had convinced him of who i really was, in her opinion). So I filed to protect assets (he has stock accounts and a bank account with his bonuses). I said i would prefer to go slow on the divorce, but i needed to protect children. After all one of us needed to be an adult (if i sound calm at this point, not so, I was a wreck).

Once I got that response from OW and I realized she was opposite-Me and he was anti-H, I "detached" or pretended too. He was being pushed by her, controlled by her and her predictions of me proved false. She started to falter on her pedestal. I posted the picture on FB. She was losing it. That's when he started to become anxious, afraid, having panic attacks. My dad wrote him a letter stating that many men go through this (MLC -- but he wouldn't call it that, so that H wouldn't automatically reject it), and that our family would be willing to let bygones by bygones if he stepped up. My family is Italian. That's saying alot.
Much happened in those few weeks and the MLC progress, through the Grace of God (I believe in prayer, the Rosary and I have strong Church connection), H went through it quickly.

So how long? From BD it was only two months, but the whole process must have been three years. Even when he came home his brain was fried. He is better now, but acknowledges that he is like a teenager. I am the cheerleader girlfriend. He's getting lipo and is focused on his looks. He sometimes takes meds and his monitoring his testosterone levels. So is he done? With Replay, maybe, but not yet with MLC.

The author of Runaway Husbands said that men can compartmentalize very well. I saw that with H. He depersonalized, detached, but us in a box and forgot everything. My therapist said, he would never come back: you can't unfry eggs. I said, I'd make omelets. Thank goodness for my sister and this forum/site.

so yes to success stories, but the LBS has to expect that H will emerge out of the tunnel in his own time and won't be exactly the same. They do come out better. Can you wait as long as my sister did? Up to LBS. Maybe divorce and get back together? Don't know.

Alienator is intriguing, but incidental. Now my H is talking about buying a wave-runner. So MLC is still alive and kicking, but luckily he's not looking to OW"s for a cure. At least not for now. And I'm better prepared too. Let's just say I never lost touch with my attorney.  ::)

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#224: October 09, 2011, 04:33:49 PM
And I'm better prepared too. Let's just say I never lost touch with my attorney. 

Very much the one thing I do not lost touch with, my lawyer! I've though about that, even if husband would be back on time (my time, that is), I would keep my lawyer.

Mamma, yes, OW may be surprised he will not be bringing any money. You can't compete with OW. They are in a teenagers in love relashionship. Everything is fantastic!  ::) Not!  ;D ;D ;D

Really strange how they manage to remain for years on end in that alternative unreal world...
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#225: October 09, 2011, 05:05:24 PM
On the idea of a returning AFFAIR FREE MLCer still in Replay.... I can imagine it... my husband is open to buying a house again together... FINALLY!!  ;D ;D

Pondering if it is his GUILT, his wanting to keep me where he can find me, or his imagining that if we have a house of our own again, he will want to be here.... it will keep him here....

I don't really care. If it serves me personally, and our family personally... then I will USE his guilt, uncertaintly, superstition... whatever to get what I think is best for our family and for me. That's right... I will USE my husband to get what I want and deserve. I have NO PROBLEM tying up all his money in a monthly mortgage... if it causes him to run again from the PRESSURE, the kids and I will have a comfortable family home... and when he's ready to come home for good, it won't be to my parent's rental property which has contributed to his MLC unrest.... it will be to his own home, with his REAL family, his REAL wife that he loves, and his garage, his patio, his grill, his above ground pool, and his MAN CAVE finished basement with room for the combination poker/bumper pool table, LOL!! Spinning Christmas Tree in the corner of the living room.... real honest to goodness Leave it to Beaver-ville... it's a good thing. ;)

If he wants a wave runner sitting in the back yard, then so be it.... as long as OW is gone!
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#226: October 09, 2011, 06:13:55 PM
I'm not yet able to imagine the idea of a returning affair free MCLer still in replay.

Was putting order on my emails and found a very, very long between I and husband, after OW1 was gone March 2008). It is a very good talk.

We do not really talk about OW1. And he says, something he had always said, that she was not the reason why he left. That he felt breathless, that he needed to cut ties, that he wanted nothing more to do with the past. But that, during the months he had spend with OW1, he had talked with a lot of people that had made him see things from another perspective and that it makes no sense to want everything from the past putted away.

He also says that OW1 was just bad timming and not the right way of solving things. That, after all those months, he is a different man, a better man, or so he likes to think.

Not sure what happened to him becoming a better man... I never saw much of that better man. The better man never gave me a pence and, since OW2,has being taking me to court...But maybe, after OW2 and all this mess, he will have learned something and can really be a better man.

He also says he had just followed is heart and will still follow his heart, and fight for a better life and to be happy. That he will only stop fighting for himself if he will phisycal or psychologically become unable to do so.

He talks a lot about feeling without air, soffucated, that the marriage was not doing him any good. He admits that, in the last times, it was also not doing me no good.

I'm really surprised with the talk. I talk about what I feel, he talks about what he has done. And he says he still believes a relshionship can be forever, without an affair, but that both people need to be side by side and look ahead (I thought we did that...).

He says living OW1 had nothing with not had getting his happiness. I tell him I don't want to know why it ended, he does not say.

I'm telling him that, after all that happened it is rare that people still talk to each other (well, that was before everything that is been going on since the gap between OW1 and OW2 and OW2).

He is not monster in that talk. And I must say I really would like to know what had he learned on those months with OW1 and why did he thought he was a better man.

Nowhere he says what he used to say, that he will never be back, nor that he hates me. He does, however, not remember a series of thing he have done while during OW1. He says, I really don't remember, do you wann go down that path? I reply, No, I don't. It was just to show you that even if you would had BD the way you wanted, I would suspect OW1 had not come along after you left.

I must also had I'm very sad for that couple in the talk (I and husband). They seem to still love each other but are not very sure what to do. Or better, she has an idea that it does not make much sense not trying to recover the relashionship, since they manage to still talk nicely after all that has happened.

But, of course, that was March 2008. A lot, and I mean a LOT, has happened since.

One thing is certain, we are both very different people, and if/when husband will be out of MLC he will not find right what he has done.

Problem? He had got OW2. He just follow is heart.. will fight for his happiness .And, of course, he is not on his right mind. Because, if he his, why had he treated me so bad in a phone talk we've had late March (yes, March always looks like the month when things happen...)? Why that insanity of normal, sad, super happy,. crying, monster "marrying you was the worst mistake of my life" and so on?

In the March 2008 talk he does not mention divorce nor that marrying me had been the worst mistake of his life. Only that thing of not having air, wanting a new life, need to cut the ties and that he knows that he have not done things the right way.

So, what do you people think, are we gonna have a repetition of that after OW1 talk? When OW2 si gone? When we will be divorced and MLC over? Years after we've been divorced? Will he be able, if/when the crisis is over, to understand what he went through and what a MLC is?...Opinions wanted!  :)


PS: I've also found a talk from one month latter, April 2008, and husband is yelling at me because "for you the divorce is just a commercial transaction. You have not changed at all! I will never, ever, give you any monthy money. If you want 1000 €, fine, I will give them to you. But that's it..."...oh...well... ::)
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« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 06:20:54 PM by AnneJ »
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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#227: October 09, 2011, 06:30:46 PM
AnneJ..... the single most important thing for you to do FOR YOURSELF is to FORGIVE your husband AND his OW1 and OW2. You cannot move forward until you do. He cannot move TOWARDS you until you do. Whether you ever get back together, he has to feel there is hope for forgiveness.

It gets old..... their wanting forgiveness and still acting out... BELIEVE ME!! I KNOW!!! Forgiving OW and then Husband for their transgressions was the single most freeing thing I have done for myself... he is still wondering if I can ever forgive him... 8)
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The softest of stuff in the world penetrates quickly the hardest insubstantial. It enters where no room is...

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#228: October 09, 2011, 06:40:24 PM


Annej, I wish I had an answer for you but I'm having similar questions, too. From what I've read in your other posts, you had a happy marriage. I hope one day he'll remember those days fondly and return, bypassing any emails and show up wherever you are. I wish that for all of us.



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Me 35 ~ Pisces   
Him 37 ~ Gemini 
I was 13 ~ he was 15 ~ Together for 19 years. Doomed from the start?
We never married ~ no children ~ two cats ~ Bomb Drop ~ 6/22/09 ~ he left to be w/ the Op & Op's kid
Atomic Bomb Drop ~ 3/22/12 ~ found out they had a child in early February, 2012 ( 2 weeks before my BDay )

In 100 years, none of this will matter but time is still. (( hugs & prayers to all ))

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Re: The Alienator??? Many questions.....
#229: October 09, 2011, 06:48:01 PM
LG, husband is forgived and both OW1 and OW2 as well. I have almost forgot OW1 has existed. She had. And given that we are, again, in the middle of another of husband fault divorce process, for legal matters she is a proof. But that's it. One day I would like to know why she come along, and when. But it is just curiosity.

I would put aside the court with happiness but husband does not want to deal. He has to have his way...So, let him have his way... ::)

He knows he is forgived as well as everything that he has done, is doing. I've told him that a while ago.

Yes, it was very, very freeing forgiving husband and both OW.

Suspect he does not care of hope of being forgived...Or, maybe, he is just still acting out. Hard to say. His a vanisher.

But, boy, one month he was one way, next month he was another. One month he did not mention divorce, next month he is shouting: Anne, I've said I wanted a divorce!

That was all a long time ago. Its been more time since those talks and now than since OW1 and those talks. Does it ever ends?... ???

Yes, Star, I've had a very happy marriage. In the March 2008 he was saying me that he had keep only the good moments, that have been many. April 2008 he was screaming that it jad never been good and I just wanted money...oh, dear!...

Return...he will return. A little too late, likely...
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