[OldPilot]

Well maybe you are both right.
And it is not a man vs woman thing but mlc vs lbs.

And add in other things that are wrong with the LBS like codependency, conflict avoidance and enabling.

Not that any one of these things is the culprit but added all together, just maybe.

[CallanG]

Hi LL

Thank you for posting , really interesting a thought provoking . I agree that fear is at the bottom of what our partners are going through .

Callan

[in it]

In what I've read about narcissism it is all fear based..and the ex tried very hard to instill fear in me but it didn't work in the long run... fear fueled by anger is a dangerous combination.

I agree with OP this ...whatever this is ....isn't necessarily gender specific.

[ruggedendurance]

OP,

You are exactly right when you point out the actions of the LBS.    Co-dependency,  enabling.............

I have plenty of issues of my own to clear up.

If I am totally honest with myself?    Neither one of us was growing into the people we really wanted to be.    This crisis gave me the space to look at myself and my actions.

Not all of it looked good when it was brought out into the light...

Still.   My actions, coping skills, problem solving skills, communication.   All needed attention and now they are getting it.

If this is what it takes for us to grow?    Who am I to fight it?

I am still of the opinion that everything happens for a reason.    If we try hard enough?    There is something positive to take from every situation.

[LisaLives]

I don't disagree that it could be women too, but since my MLCer wasn't a woman, and neither is my NG, I wasn't going to try to be all-knowing ;-0!  However, one of my best friends is an MLCer, and what I saw in her was not fear, it was freedom.  The three female MLCers I know personally, including my fiancé's ex, I don't think acted out of fear, it was freedom.  I think they fell into the typical good girl role and did everything they were supposed to do, then finally went wild at midlife. 

My ex was a typical good boy, too, but for women, I actually feel, in many cases like it's not fear, it's a new-found power.  In fact, I find my fiancé's ex-wife to be living a freaky existence where I would be scared s#(!less, but she thinks, for the first time in her life, that since she is in control, and he's not, that she is in a better place...  I suppose that could be a kind of fear, it's DEFINITELY narcissism, but not the same...  That doesn't make sense, but in the book Crossing Paths, they talk about the ML danger zone where hormones change and men become more like women, and women become more like men, and that is when relationships struggle.  Men got to a point where they say "is this all there is?"  And women say, "holy hell, look at all there is!"  Fear of missing out, instead of a fear of failure...  I don't know, that's why I thought it would make a good discussion topic!       

[in it]

RuggedEndurance That's true...I'm starting to think without pain there is no growth. But I have had enough..thank you very much.

The best book I have read on communication is the 5 love languages and this works for any relationship.

There was some codependency involved mostly I enabled the behavior. No more.

Maintaining a postive attutude is key.

I went nuts in my twenties after the first divorce..so I been there done that..it was no way to deal with the pain that's out of my system.

I understand the ex didn't have many girlfriends before me so I guess he thought he missed out.

[ruggedendurance]

Lisa,

It is a good topic.   And.    There is no blanket diagram that covers all men or all woman.

It just struck me that what you described was exactly the same as my XW.

I do believe when she left she was looking for "freedom" and the excitement that comes from it.    However.    She fits the MLC to a tee.

He affair partner has.   For all the world.    The appearance of a farmyard pig....... Face and body.    He lives in a trailer park.   (I have nothing against people that live in trailer parks)   I only mention it because he really has nothing to offer except being an extremely available distraction.

She was medicating herself with gin before she left and from what I hear?    She hasn't skipped a beat in the booze department.

I've seen her one time about 18 months ago.    She is a total vanisher.

So.   I only see a picture of her now and then.    Still.    I had seen a picture taken just a month ago and she appears to be 50lbs heavy.     Dark circles under the eyes. 

I can't convince myself that she is head over heals happy with her new found freedom.

I can easily convince myself that she has some serious personal issues that need attention.

In that way?    She has acted the same as  a male MLCer.

[in it]

Yep - they are availalble. A catalyst for all of this nothing more. A clean slate (UGH)  Someone they might feel superior too. Someone who may have more issues than them. They may have had a history with them.

It could have been skydiving or car racing whatever might help them feel alive. But no - they prefer this kind of devastation instead.

[ruggedendurance]

in it,

I can see that a man may stray or feel compelled to have an affair because he hasn't had many partners.    But.   I don't see how that.   In itself.    Could cause a full blown MLC.

I can see that someone with little experience would be compelled to "find out" what it is like with other partners. 

If they were "just" experimenting.    There would be no need to demonize the spouse.   

They would simply say they made a decision.   Or.    They just wanted their freedom to do as they wish.   Or.    They would try to keep it a secret.   They didn't want to destroy the marriage.   They just wanted to "find out" 

In my opinion.   For a person to go into a full blown MLC.    There has to be a pain that lives at the very soul of the MLCer.   And..   It can be traced back to their childhood.

For a person to leave a committed relationship and spend thousands of dollars and have affairs with people beneath them and destroy anything that has been good in their lives???

They have to be at war with something agonizing within themselves.

[Medusa]

Fear of missing out, instead of a fear of failure...  I don't know, that's why I thought it would make a good discussion topic!       

Yes, fear of missing out. Mine told me that's part of what his crisis is about: he felt he missed out on all kinds of things, so the fear drives the desire for freedom. Mine gave me the song and dance about not wanting to be responsible for the family, anymore...he wanted the freedom to do whatever he wanted when he wanted.

To me they're inextricably interconnected and have nothing to do with gender. In a lot of ways it is a case of "holy hell, look at all there is!" It becomes that for both the MCLer and the LBS, I think. We do go through our own kind of identity crisis. The difference is that we are reasonably sane.