[trusting]

Here is my take again personally to clarify.  I know my H is in MLC with certainty.  He has changed completely from who he was before, even to the point of changing political affiliations.  His core values he used to have are not evident.  Especially around BD, he monstered and he was very angry and he was mean. My real H was never intentionally mean.  He treated me very well.  I do not know with 100% certainty that he has had an affair (s) but am about 99.5% he has had an least one A that was an EA, not sure beyond that.  If he was/is he hides it well and keeps it covered up. 

I go with the assumption he has had what could at least be termed an inappropriate relationship because he is in MLC and very possibly a full blow physical affair (or more than one).  However, it is clearly not the dominant "issue" here.  What he has going on is not about the possible affair, but something else.

Don't know if that helped at all. 

[underpressure]

Trusting...that does help a lot. The reclarification that the Affair is not the most important part, but the crisis itself is.

AnneJ...I am here because I love you guys.

And besides that I dont think my affair was "normal" for me or for anyone else, or in the grand scheme of things. I don't know what that would mean exactly. And I demonstrated all those traits that DGU listed above, (thanks DGU), at the time  of, or even before my affair. So maybe my H is having a normal affair and I am the one in crisis.

I think i need to remove the branch from my own eye before I try to take tweazers to H's.

[Ready2Transform]

{{{hugs}}} UP!  No matter who is in crisis or who isn't, the actions are the same:  take time to heal from what has happened, focus on your growth (as you have been doing).  You have grown tremendously in the time you've been posting here, obviously doing lots of good things, and we love you too. 

[calamity]

UP, IMHO, there's nothing normal about affairs!  And, people can have many identity crises in their lives so who knows? 

[Anjae]

Hi UP,

You could have been in crisis. Who knows? But like Ready2 said, what it matters is to heal and focus on your growth. Would say your husband is having a MLC. We love you too. 

CJ, an affair is normal in the sense that it is a common thing. It is not a rare thing. A MLC affair is less normal because MLC are not that common. True, can people have several identity crisis in their lives. But the devastation a MLC causes is different from all other identity crisis.

[Thundarr]

I've asked this question many times myself and the answers continue to elude me.  I think it is odd in normal life to have an "affair down" in the way that we describe it.  We are conditioned culturally (in almost all of the cases here) to try to "trade up" into more financial security or a superior looking mate as we tend to base our self worth on these things (erroneously).  To leave your mate for someone in a lower economic bracket or less aesthetically pleasing goes against the grain to say the least.  We are all familiar with Mamma Bear's H having run off with a convenience store skank who lives in a dingy apartment with no cable.  Why leave a beautiful and successful woman with likely financial security for life?  I know some beautiful and wealthy women are wretched on the inside, but we all know that is not the case here.  We know there is something going on that we cannot see, and we know that it has to do with the wayward spouse and not the responsible parent.

[Sassyone]

The affair down is not always based on appearances or money.  I personally feel that person is a reflection of our broken spouse.  The affair is that an affair, I don't think either is much different.  When one choose to stray there is something wrong.   MLC affairs are just affairs with a whole lot of other psychological crap thrown in.  Remember they are going back to a different time in their lives to "fix" what they did wrong or didn't do.   Whether they succeed at it or not is another question.

So I contemplated the same question for the last two years and to me there is not much difference except for the MLC stuff thrown in.  H was not a narcissist preMLC but during replay he was, he was abusive and for 20+ years prior he was not. . . We all know the list can go on.

Sassy

[Dontgiveup]

RCR's article on the Affair Down

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_dealing-with-infidelity_affair-down.html

[followingbliss]

This was a post from RCR which I think sets out the difference very well

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=628.msg34431#msg34431


and includes my own response as someone who had a none MLC affair , my post copied below


Archived Topics / Re: How do you know it's a MLC?
« on: December 23, 2010, 11:50:36 PM »
Looking forward to RCRs article on this one as it just seems to get more complicated . Thought I would offer my own perspective as I have also had an affair which my husband discovered  approx  2and a half years before BD, something which I believe to be the "trigger event" for his own MLC.

My own affair was an emotionally bonded affair

Emotionally-Bonded Affair: This is an affair fueled by in-fatuative addiction. They believe they are soul mates.
Sound familiar? But this does not mean it is or is not MLC. An MLC affair is an emotionally-bonded affair just like squares are rectangles.

I do not feel I was in MLC but was infatuated with OM until I eventually ( after about 13 months of PA) came to see him as weak (and myself!)  and not someone I wanted to spend my future with, coupled with a corresponding internal recommitment to my H and my M. I can definitely identify with the soul mate component from both myself and OM, I also projected blame for the A on my husband ( focused upon him being unsupportive and his depressive personality !). My husband was totally unaware of my A until discovery approx 2 months after it had ended , I did not do monster or display any Replay behaviours (othr than losing weight, taking an interest in my appearance which I feel would be typical of any A MLC or not), indeed my husband indicated that I deserved an acting aard for carrying on so normally whilst conducting the A, ie I had no personality change and continued to function in demanding job and being wife and mother. I experienced significant shame and remorse during the A, on discovery and to this day ! I have expressed this to my H throughout

Fast forward to today and why I feel my H's A is different and that my H is in MLC.  BD was July this year some of the things I feel make his an MLC case are:

complete personality change -from dutiful and loving man to selfish monster spewing alien

periods of vanishing alternating with sporadic contact with kids and a complete abandonment of old friends and family

replay style behaviours including new hobbies and grungy style of dress (shoes with holes in  ) slang style of talking

No planning , despite saying marriage over  and doesnt love me at BD made no moves to get out - has now been left 6 weeks (largely prompted by me as I found his monster and cake eating too much - I know we should let them go of own accord but I wasnt able to take it)

Memory loss have to repeat several conversations

Lies about OW -is not able to admit he is in R with her

Running behaviours - can be at the house for hours and doesnt remove coat and hat, frequently stands to drink his cup of tea and actually stands near the door of our living room with one foot on the wall (behind him as if he is ready to launch himself like a runner -get the picture )

Negative attachment- turns up to do Monster - an example it would have been our 20th Wedding Anniversary this week , I honour it by going to the church we were married in to pray for our M ( I am not religious but it felt like something I wanted to do). He honours it by turning up unexpectedly having not been NC for over a week to collect furniture for his new rented house from our garage, stomps about throwing furniture swearing and snarling at me throughout - Happy Anniversary ! Next day again unexpected returns silent and depressed eats something falls asleep watches TV with us then leaves late hey ho !

Im not sure if this is helpful but I am clear that our situations are different even if the Affair attachments have similarities. I dont feel I was MLC but feel confident that my husband is ( in addition to above he has childhood issues alcoholic/mental health issues divorced parents etc , I am from stable and loving family).  On discovering this site I decided to stand and feel that MLC offers me some hope , even if we have spouses with emotionally bonded affairs however my own perspective is that these too can run their course and need not signify the end of the M. On discovery my husband wanted me to stay and I wanted that too, we have struggled and now with his MLC don't know what the outcome will be but looks like we are headed for "Interesting Times"


Hope this helps FB

[Anjae]

Thundarr, that “affair down” thing of lower economic situation of uglier than the spouse does not apply to my husband’s OW1 or OW2 (nor to many OW/OM). They are as less or as good looking as I am, they had more available money because they were single and live with their parents/family. They are what could be, at each of to the affairs started, considered regular women on their early 30. They are both college educated, one of them has a degree. They both had good jobs.

There was no affair down in money or beauty sense. Agree with Sassy, they are just a reflection of our MLCers. They are someone who is willing to lead the life the MLCer is leading. Or someone who thinks they are going to rescue the dumsel in distress, like OW1. She didn’t manage to get him away from the clubbing world, she end up leaving. OW2 is, so far, totally into that clubbing and nightlife thing.