[Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?]

Which of these do you believe was the main factor triggering your spouse's MLC?

Stress and/ or burnout

12 (25%)

Medication

1 (2.1%)

Dealing with childhood issues

10 (20.8%)

Hormonal changes

3 (6.3%)

Depression

8 (16.7%)

Neurological changes, unrelated to anything outside

1 (2.1%)

Underlying personality disorder,

7 (14.6%)

Social fears (aging, mortality, children leaving, etc.)

2 (4.2%)

Genetics

0 (0%)

External factors (work, OW, etc.)

1 (2.1%)

None of these (please add a note) Death of his mother

3 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: August 20, 2016, 03:03:33 PM

[Mermaid]

Symptoms of burnout:
1- Hopelessness
2- Sadness
3- Cynicism
4- Irritability
5- Short temper
6- Exhaustion
7- Frustration and lack of power
8- Lack of enthusiasm.
9- Pessimistic thinking
10- Isolation
11 -Blunted emotions
12 -Life doesn't seem worth living
13 -Emotional detachment
14 -Depression

When I look at all 14 symptoms I see 14 different Bomb Drops.  14 which could be used as an excuse why they are in love with someone else.  Don't get me wrong these symptoms are accurate but if our partners or ex-partners were well grounded all of what they feel should be discussed to us.

Our partners can use any number of excuses when breaking up with us. That's not the point at all. The idea was to discuss whether there is ONE set of behaviours that we can classify as MLC, and alternative explanations for the same behaviours. Chronic burnout is not an excuse, it's the scientifically studied reaction to long term stress that has not been dealt with, leading to a set of symptoms which can make the individual partially or totally disfunctional in work and home settings. The person concerned probably won't use these as an excuse. The total loss of emotions (anhedonia) leaves the person concerned means that rational decisions cannot be made, as norepinephrine, dopamine and acetylcholine all carry emotions from the brain and create somatic reactions. The person is "lost", like someone who has had memory loss. It's a pathology, but it may not be fully recognised or understood by the patient.

Now, we as LBSers in our lifetime may have felt one or two in this list why didn't we go out and have an affair?  As children didn't we experience things while growing up.  example:  Feeling that your parents have a favorite child and it's not you, or something like being moved from state to state, or not being able to get the expensive toys that your classmates get.

First, this is trivialising the pain and the abuse that some MLCers suffered as a child.
Second, it misunderstands the interreaction of person, relationships and context. Events are not so linear, so cause and effect to be able to explain or predict human behaviour. When we try to understand what our MLCers have gone through, we can only build up a sketchy map of reactions, emotions, and a sense of non adjustment. It's not a thorough analysis, but it helps in coming to terms with what has happened, and realising that it's not our fault.
 

  The information is valuable but don't use it as a crutch to throw you off from detaching.  IMHO our focus should still be on ourselves, getting to a point where we become a whole person.

This is absolutely the point, and the only healthy way to survive this; detach, not get drawn into their drama, focus on ourselves. The rest are tools in our understanding and our acceptance.

[Mermaid]

Here's another very interesting perspective of midlife, crisis, transitions, anhedonia and alexithymia.

flora.insead.edu/fichiersti_wp/inseadwp1998/98-86.pdf

Abstract:

In this paper, attention is paid to a dysfunctional emotional behavior pattern whereby individuals experience very little (or a total absence of) pleasure. Instead, there is a feeling of emotional numbness. Although this phenomenon touches all parts of life, this paper focuses on the organizational context. For some executives, the stresses and strains of midlife (including stresses involving career issues) become the catalyst for this dysfunctional emotional behavior. Their reactions are of a quasi-alexithymic and anhedonic nature. Some of the characteristics of this dysfunctional emotional pattern are delineated in these pages. In addition, the related experience of depersonalization is highlighted. Some of the factors that contribute to these kinds of phenomena are explored. At the end of the paper, a number of recommendations for dealing with these difficulties are given.

[LisaLives]

This is a great topic and I feel like the existence of this forum is proof that MLC is real.  The stories are too similar, the scripts, the behaviors, all of it are too similar to deny it.  There are two interesting books that I have read that make me believe that the triggers are external. 

In Crossing Paths by Steinberg, they write about how adolescence of children is a trigger for parents.  It's a great book with so much validity.  I discovered this just before his MLC and I told him to read it, to which he responded almost violently about how I always think he has a problem--I didn't, I just thought it was interesting.  I found it in the giveawy book pile in the hall of his workplace--he's a professor, so there's always good stuff in there... 

And right now I am reading Giving the Love that Heals by Hendrix.  In that book, he and his wife allege that people have a hard time getting through stages where they were hurt as children--that we only instinctively parent the way we were parented and if we were ever challenged or stunted, we will face challenges as parents.  The interesting thing for me is that I never felt I would make a good parent because I knew I wasn't parented well.  My parents are good people and they love me as best as they can, but emotionally they were just immature--that's what happens with teen parents, in many cases...  So I always strived to train and educate myself.  I have never felt like an instinctive parent.  Most people are not when they call "conscious parents" and so they relive their family of origin struggles with their kids. 

And therein lies the MLC, I think it's some of the best reasoning I've seen on the matter, anyway, but I learn more stuff every day! 

[OldPilot]

This is a great topic and I feel like the existence of this forum is proof that MLC is real. 

I think that might be circular reasoning.

Although I agree with the existance of MLC, I have been on a bunch of marriage forums that do not beleive in MLC.

They bash it and trash it and find every reason why it is not real.

SO they have a forum that says it doesn't exist, that contradicts your reason above.

[LisaLives]

This is a great topic and I feel like the existence of this forum is proof that MLC is real. 

I think that might be circular reasoning.

Although I agree with the existance of MLC, I have been on a bunch of marriage forums that do not beleive in MLC.

They bash it and trash it and find every reason why it is not real.

SO they have a forum that says it doesn't exist, that contradicts your reason above.

But are they living with it?  What is their basis for saying it's not real?  I would love to hear it because a part of me didn't believe it either, until BD.   

I guess I think it's a matter of how you define it.  If you try to tell me that my husband is sane right now, I would know you're nuts, and in most all these cases, these are not sane people who one day up and walk away from reasonable marriages and families.  You can call it a transition if you want, but I would still say it's an abrupt transition. 

The most amazing thing to me in all these cases is that there is a BD.  I know people who got divorced because it wasn't "right."  Whether it was never right, or grew poorly, things got bad, they went to counseling, fought a lot, whatever, until one day they knew it was over, but they can't pinpoint a DATE.  The thing in all of these cases is the existence of a DAY, a moment when everything changed.  The fact that things may have gotten stale or less good over time, like all marriages, but in almost all cases, the LBS is truly surprised. 

That's the one thing for me that shows MLC, not just a case of a marriage gone wrong, but a true crisis, with a breaking point.  I wouldn't argue that it might be better named, but the cases are all so similar that there has to be a name for a phenomenon for people who break, at some life turning point, usually following a personal crisis or challenge and make changes that would not have been a match for their previous character.  When a majority of friends and acquaintances cock their head to the side and say "s/he did what?" that's an MLC, just my HO, and I have been wrong SO many times, I lost count, so it's worth nothing, but just my current thinking on the topic ;-)!         

[Shantilly Lace]

I agree MLC usually have the close relatives and friends going Where the hell did that come from.
Whereas a "normal" break down of a marriage (relationship) can be seen over a period of time.  The people don't lose their core values whereas in MLC they do.

Dearheart alienated all his friends.  Nearly every weekend he would go round the corner to assist his quadraplegic friend in the morning.  He would spend a couple of hours chatting and carrying on if there was nothing pressing.  He would go back in the evening to help again briefly and then once again on the sunday morning briefly.

He did this nearly every weekend for 8 years.  Now nothing.  He has seen them 2 maybe 3 times.  they wait just as patiently for the real Dearheart to appear.

Our next door neighbour and he used to also do a lot together.  In fact he and N used to stand for hours chatting over the back fence planning things together and Dearheart talked N out of cheating on his wife when a woman was throwing herself at N.  We went away on holidays together and everything.  N was devastated when Dearheart left as Dearheart didn't talk to him.  And Dearheart acts as if N is an enemy.

We have another neighbour with whom Dearheart did things with as well but now although this neighbour tries to talk to him Dearheart is very stilted.  their is no friendship on his behalf.  N2 keeps lines open he sees Dearheart deep in depression andeven read up about it.

He was also involved with his family.  We would see them at least once a month BBQ here, BBQ there.  Hardly at all now.  Christmas was the last time he saw them, almost 4 months. 

So sad.

[exiled]

After BD my W's transformation was so sudden and drastic that I began my
internet research by typing in "Jungian cult."  I didn't know anything about MLC then.
My W was a member of the Jungian society
and reading many Jungian books.  I suspected maybe she joined some
kind of a cult since only a cult member would do such outrageous
things as running away from their marriages and families impetuously.  Another word crossed my mind was
"enchanted."  It felt like someone had casted a spell on my W.  My W was there
physically but her mind was occupied by a stranger I couldn't recognize.

[LettingGo]

It's real.

The question I have is, does the amount of estrogen from birth control pills and animal hormone boosters that is flushed into our water system and bred into our food have anything to do with it? Just as some of us have concerns that these hormones are causing early puberty in children, I wonder if the estrogen is affecting men....j

I don't think a discussion about MLC can be had in our society without it becoming either a JOKE, or a judgement that it is just bad behavior and you married a jerk who cheats and lies and it's time to move on. BUT.... a discussion about TOO MUCH ESTROGEN robbing men of their MANHOOD and giving them sever PMS symptoms would get a lot of attention! And since our doctors are now essential prescription writers, they might actually PAY ATTENTION when a man comes to them complaining of inability to focus, lack of sex drive, urge to abandon, etc. instead of writing a prescription for Cialis and Valium like my husband's doctor did! 

Perhaps instead of COUNSELING, which many men will NOT attempt, we should start with some testosterone cream prescriptions - you know, a "fix it" approach to get the ball rolling. Suzanne Sommers has taken up BIO IDENTICAL HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY as he personal cause and has written several EXCELLENT books outlining her experience with it.... they are CHOCK FULL of info on practitioners, nutrition, etc. and how to get what you want from the medical community. Yes, her husband is on them, as well.... tailor made for MEN! Her approach is about health and longevity, but also about remaining vibrant and sexual throughout our later years when hormone levels are dropping or non existent.

I urge everyone here to consider getting her latest book from the library and skimming through to see if this approach might be more helpful IN THE BEGINNING to possibly stave off the  most severe behaviors of MLC.

Probably too late for our husbands as they are in the full on throes of their CRISIS, but I'd still like to rub some T cream on my husband while he sleeps just to see if it helps him feel better! 

[OldPilot]

Nope don't think that hormones in the water will be the answer.

We have people on this board from all over the world. I sthe water bad everywhere?

I also think it is more complicated than just hormones.

Hormones are one factor only.

[What Next]

How I wish there was a remedy! I am an MLC believer. Even though I would acknowledge our marriage was not perfect, I never doubted his love for me and the man I lay down with everynight would never have left his children.

For me MLC is very real. I don't believe a name change would shift public opinion, so scathing of the hurt and devastation caused but maybe identifying what causes the natural transition (age old) to become a crisis in some men, be it hormonal or unresolved childhood issues,would help future generations. I worry for my two daughters.

HA