[Ez]

Just bought and downloaded this book to my new Sony eReader that i got for christmas and have read first 2 chapters.  Already I don't want to put it down.  Not sure if it is going to help me but something has to shift my thinking because I can't stop blaming myself for all of this and I do wonder if h left because he blamed himself for all the problems and couldn't see a way out.  Looking at our upbringings both of us grew up with a lot of blame.  Me with a sibling who picked on and blamed me for everything, I was never good enough.  And H grew up with parents who had a toxic relationship that until this day blame each other for everything and nothing is ever their fault.

Anyway, hoping this book might help shift my thinking a bit.

Ez xx

[Trustandlove]

I'm almost done with this, and think it is great.  It has specific chapters about blame in a marriage, with children, and in a work situation; it also talks a lot about the Law of Personal Limitations that LL brought up in the first post here.

I like this book because it is practical, and non-threatening -- it practices what it preaches, in that it doesn't blame us for having used blame, if that makes sense. 

I will be looking at it again and again to fully "get" the idea of Positive Accountability rather than blame; it is of course useful with out spouses, but even more so with our children and in our own lives -- it helps us set a good example.  Particularly good with teens, with everything they are going through regardless of this MLC mess.  I hope I can put it to good use to give them some serious life skills. 

so a big thumbs up here!

[unbroken]

Hi,
Just found and downloaded this last night.  Finished it today.
It's fascinating.  Probably not MLC, but very interesting to read.  We get to read both sides of the situation.  The wife is struggling with discontent that is deep within her.  Eventually has an affair, leaves, divorces. 
Reinforces my belief that God has a plan for me with all of this.  Though I still don't know what it is...

Here's them talking about their experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qRPbBbBJis

[Trustandlove]

There was an interesting article in the Sunday paper on the 20th about oxytocin -- a professor of neuroscience, Paul Zak, has written a new book called The Moral Molecule, and among other things says that

"When one person extends himself to another in a trusting way, the person being trusted experiences a surge in oxytocin that makes him less likely to hold back and less likely to cheat.  In short, the feeling of being trusted makes a person more trustworthy.  It becomes a virtuous cycle."

I found this interesting because I'd always thought of oxytocin as the hormone that was released during physical contact, and it was really insteresting to read that

"What our work has demonstrated is that you don't need to shoot a chemical up someone's nose, or have sex with them, or even give them a hug, to create the surge in oxytocin that leads to more generous behaviour.  Fortunately, all you have to do to trigger oxytocin release is show someone that you trust them." 

This was a scientific study, with measurable results, etc.  I know quite a few here are interested in the science/brain aspect of this, so this fits in there as well. 

I can't put a link to the article on here because it must be too soon; it's still a subscription service, but the book apparently comes out tomorrow (May 24th). 

As RCR is writing about trust, I was re-reading the articles on trust and REPAIR and this seemed to fit in.  It was interesting for me personally as I also, BEFORE having read this, had decided to 'extend myself to my H in a trusting way'. 

Now it didn't miraculously turn him around, but it did have a positive effect on our interactions. 

There's a lot more there; he also talks about the effect of this on society as a whole, the importance of group identity, and so on. 

[TrustingMyHP]

T&l,

Thanks for posting about this.  It sounds very interesting and I will keep a look out for the book.

I'm not surprised by this "discovery."  Since immediately post BD, I've noticed H's monster spew would stop if I was kind to him in the midst of it.  It was almost comical.  He'd be in the middle of some nasty rant about me and if I simply said, "I hear you.  I'm sorry you feel that way" he would calm down and start to apologize.
 
I found I could turn a nasty conversation around immediately by changing my behavior to him from confrontational/accusatory to acceptance and kindness.  It definitely was a "trust" thing.

Problem for me was I was often so angry I couldn't be calm enough to do it!  Anger is a defensive emotion and it feels "right" when you're being attacked.  Being kind feels counter intuitive.

Just last week, on Mother's Day, my H sent me a short but sweet email.  This was the first personal interaction (I've been NC except for admin issues) we've had in three months.  Since he had made the first step, and it was kind, I decided to be kind in return. 

I wrote him a newsy email about what I'm doing and he immediately wrote back profusely thanking me for the update and did something he hadn't done since BD 16 months ago.  He made a joke!  (He could always make me laugh, it was one of our primary bonding emotions.) 

So the relationship between trust and oxytocin makes sense to me.

TMHP

[Trustandlove]

It makes sense to me as well, and yes, it is counter-intuitive.  I think this is one time when I really understand what "counter-intuitive" means!

All I know is I was kind, and when it's done truthfully, it shows, and it does make a difference.

It does NOT mean being a doormat. 

[Trustandlove]

This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot; it's also sort of along the lines of what's discussed in "Emotional Bull$hit" (Carl Alasko) -- that any interactions need to be 80% thought and only 20% feeling.  And that there is always one question you need to ask before saying anything, which is "what do I need from this right now?"  The default answer is always "to bring this person closer to me" and "serenity".  Which of course indicates being kind.

Which indicates that if you come forth with trust, you are more likely to be met with trust.  And so on.  Like he says, virtuous circle. 

Again, this isn't doormat. 

The hard part is, of course, if kindness and trust are met with monster, or if we've had so much bad stuff that it just gets hard to find good stuff.  But somehow I think it means presenting the bad stuff in a neutral way, which is of course, the good old "responding rather than reacting"....

Funny how that comes round so often 

[Rollercoasterider]

In 2007--when Sweetheart was home for the year--I was speaking to a counselor and explaining that Sweetheart would become trustworthy because I trusted him. Trust creates or enables trustworthiness.

[Tigger]

You can see Paul Zak speak about this on Ted Talks, you should be able to find it on YouTube, its also on netflix.

[honour]

Trust creates or enables trustworthiness.

We trusted our spouses
Our spouses cheated on us
Therefore "trust creates or enables trustworthiness" can not be true, at least not universally.

honour