[Medusa]

l've asked myself 100 times and pointed it out to w at bd , deaf ears of course but what sort of man would hook up with a women in wifes state at the time ?
Watch her destroy her family and marriage, an 11yr old girls family?

That would be the man I'm still married to.

OW was married and had a 12-year-old-daughter at BD.

They just don't care. They want what they want and anyone else is collateral damage because of the narcissism that emerges. And of course, as we all know, they don't want to hear anyone else's perspective because, as mine once told me, "it isn't like that".

Yeah. Right.

[31andcounting]

Exactly,  my H went for a married (20years younger) woman with 2 toddlers and a newborn baby!!!  H was even "friends" with her H.
She happened to decide she was miserable in her marriage   I watched her baby bump grow , deliver and celebrate a 1st birthday!!   
People that get involved like that are not thinking right?   Something is off with both of them.  And if the OP happens to have never known the MLCer, then what they are being told is all lies.  Make believe, it is all a make believe fantasy!!
31andcounting

[hawk]

Once again, l still can't wrap my head around some of this stuff. lt's beyond me how anyone could mess families like this.

With mine l had a lot of trouble figuring out who to blame most.
l mean if our own h or w goes and throws themselves at somebody in the first place!

[in it]

When the First BD with the exow and the divorce happened.
He was pushing for the D's to meet her.

My youngest replied " Sure..I'd like to meet her so I can kick her ass for her"
To which the ex replied " Awww it isn't all her fault"

For me the blame rest squarely on the cheating spouse. If they don't have enough character to resist whatever it is they think these OP have or can offer. To the point that they destroy their own families.

Who needs them?

[31andcounting]

yes In It , that is important.  My H as he was exiting the tunnel, before I new "this" was real sent me a long poem about integrity.  I honestly thought???
But what I now know was, he was showing me he was trying to become a man with integrity again and also knew that he had not been.
Of course I now have hindsight and that helps me understand "a little bit".

Hawk , when a W or H does this, they are not okay, something is wrong.  The fact that you can't believe or understand "how" they could says to me "that you are okay and you are thinking right" I know that kind of sounds simple, but I think it kind of is that simple.......... 
31

[in it]

Sorry 31andcounting integrity?? That made me laugh out loud. Most of these MLcer's might want to look the meaning of that word up in the dictionary.

And anyone who thinks this kind of behavior that leads to the destruction of families is healthy or normal needs their heads examined. I guess their family members find it totally acceptable.

It isn't up to us to understand them. It's up to us to understand ourselves.

[toughtimes]

Interesting to read along. I know we are not supposed to dwell on the R with OW but for most of us here it really is the part of this that hurts the most.
My children were 2 and 7 at BD and my H went off with a 23 year old employee. They basically run his company now and are inseparable (I'm over three years BD) so I am not sure how that will ever change. I know all affairs are affair downs but my Hs ow is highly educated, attractive and, seemingly, full of positivity and joie de vivre. I relate to LawProfessor when she explains what her H said about hanging out with 20 somethings, they are such fun and positive (naive and annoying). I think that is what my H thinks too.
But, I like how RCR put it earlier on:

Then there are those poor naïve girls who have not yet grown up—early 20s—and who think this is how relationships start. They may become involved with someone in a position of power over them or maybe a co-worker, but they really are simply ignorant and before they know it they’ve been trapped by the hormones. Yes, they agreed to a sexual relationship—or encounter—with someone who was married and they may have tried to avoid it and fallen in to the sin. They may have felt shame and guilt for their actions, but once the hormones get involved the alienator loses control and becomes like the other, older more mature women who are Affairs Down. One the hormones take over, the young and naïve alienator may begin to behave like the older Affairs Down; they will display attributes of Personality Disorders. But that does not mean these younger alienators are as messed up as their older counterparts or that they actually have Personality Disorders. We all have situations in which we react with negative attributes, possessive in-fatuation has a tendency to bring out the worst when the recipient resists or has a spouse or others in the circle of influence who are resistant.

Looking at this quote from RCR how do we know if there is possessive infatuation going on? I kind of hope there is but I don't know? Is the fact that we are just here getting on with looking after the kids etc. enough to cause them to feel uncomfortable? I'm not sure?
My H and ow don't see their R as sinful or wrong in any way, as far as my H is concerned he finally got rid of me, the harridan who was unbearable to live with and who held him back in every conceivable way. They both think that I am the unreasonable one.

I laughed at RCRs fantasies for ow revenge ... mine is quite simple, I just want her, and indeed everyone my H has told, to know the truth. That I am not the person my H makes me out to be and that our R was not the horror he has told her it was. The truth will out, I'm sure.

[paradigmshift]

There are very mature 20-year-olds, but relatively rare. And when a man is in MLC, giving the woman MLC $h!te, all hell will break lose (see blackice's OW for example). So the MLCer will in the end, play a huge part in the unravelling of the relationship with the OW.

And I understand the pain of being maligned. I told mine to stop bad-mouthing me to others and to move on like he means it.

[Songanddance]

Looking at this quote from RCR how do we know if there is possessive infatuation going on?

I can tell you exactly how.... My H took OW to an event that would have been a special one for us. He was performing with two other old friends and OW accompanied him.  One of those friends told me afterwards (and it was the first time he had met her) that she sat staring at H when he was having a conversation with my friend. She then muscled in between them and physically took hold of him and completely blanked my friend out.  His words were - possessive, manipulative, poor social skills and clearly obsessed with H and wanted to make a point that they were an item to all who were there.  H didn't show that this bothered him but he did not engage with OW when he was talking to his friend. (H has known this friend for over 30 years). However my friend said that H is most definitely a shadow of his former self and meekly accepted her controlling behaviour. 
That is an example of possessive infatuation.

I also know OW - I directed her and H in a show and it was in the quiet moments of rehearsal that their R started - right under my nose.

I know all affairs are affair downs but my Hs ow is highly educated, attractive and, seemingly, full of positivity and joie de vivre. I

Yes and so in my Hs OW. It is not what they are academically or "socially" it is what they become through the affair that makes it an affair down.  OW for me seemed to be so well liked by everyone in rehearsal - I couldn't understand why. I didn't take to her at all and had great reservations about her. She was aware of these reservations and that is probably one reason why she targeted H. 
OW was married and in 2012 had adopted a girl (young teenager) and once asked me (before I knew anything about the affair) "how do you deal with girls?"
I gave some general answer - OW's reply " I wish we'd never adopted her"

I beat a hasty retreat. I now realise that H was becoming sucked in when he defended her comment. At that time I put it down to the fact that he has always "seen" where people are coming from and that he has always criticised me for being a little too hard on people - so perhaps I had it wrong and was making assumptions about her.

Interesting - in just writing this post I now realise that H has always demonstrated this " sympathetic approach" as he has believed it is part of his charm.  I have just had another "PING!" moment go off in my head!!!

[toughtimes]

There are very mature 20-year-olds, but relatively rare. And when a man is in MLC, giving the woman MLC $hit, all hell will break lose (see blackice's OW for example). So the MLCer will in the end, play a huge part in the unravelling of the relationship with the OW.

When I met ow I thought she was 18, she reminded me of my teenage self! I felt motherly towards her, H said she wanted to camp near us when we were planning to go to a festival, she had never been to one before! I said, "sure that would be great, she can hang with me and the kids!" WTF? He also said to me "she's just very young." Wow, I just remembered those.
As long as the money and success keeps flowing all is well, it's just when things change that things get stressful for them. I will check out Blackice's thread, thank you.

songanddance your Hs ow sounds awful! What a thing to say "I wish I had never adopted her" WOah! And her possessiveness is creepy, did it feel quite good to hear that information though? I get snippets of info but not much. I hear my Hs ow is anorexic. His BF told me he thinks he upset her recently because she was going on about how unreasonable I have been re: the divorce settlement (I settled for less than I could just to get it over and done with) and my Hs BF said "well you have to look at it from TTs point of view" ... she was offended by that apparently. I guess that is a sign that all is not great. I know my H hangs around with people he has met since he left me, people who believe his story blindly, my pal said that people who know me will know that there is two sides to any story and possibly question things. Still hoping the truth will out.