[Trustandlove]

Jules,

I'm so glad that your S understood!  I have special needs kids as well; I totally get it that it is absolutely wonderful when they understand something -- most people just don't have any way to 'get' that our kids DON'T 'get it' so much of the time.

I also am one who has been able to use so much of what I've learned here with my kids, and I see how it applies to special needs situations particularly.   My S gets horribly angry often, and sometimes turns that anger on himself....    I need every ounce of everything I can get at those times. 

But understanding guilt vs remorse -- wow!

[FindingJules]

T&L I do remember you mentioning that you had special needs kids. I thank you for your perspective and understanding. That's what I was struggling with so much the other day. Absolutely physically and mentally exhausted from working through the situation at school, on top of already being emotionally exhausted with this MLC bull. Then, all I got from H was - well, he's growing up and going through some changes. And he's got this one other issue of autism to contend with. Like it was a mole on his face! 

No, he's got ANOTHER set of BIG changes being thrown at him...changing houses every two to three days and his parents are separated....and his dad is being incredibly selfish!!

All of that did push me to realize exactly what others have suggested....I just need to worry about myself and do what I know is right and not think that H is going to "get" it. He's in crisis. How can he?

[FindingJoJo]

The very reason that infidelity and divorce are so accepted in our communities is because we use words and terminology that try to soften the blow. Even Christians and the clergy that are supposed to be leading us down the narrow path are accepting of what God clearly says is unacceptable.

It IS adultery.  Shout it from the rooftops and proclaim what is truth.  People who commit adultery are adulterers or harlots according to the Bible.  They are not affair partners.  An affair is an 'event.'  Adultery is a sin against God and against the very spouse that the adulterer promised to love and cherish.   In old testament times, a man or woman guilty of ADULTERY would have been stoned to death.  Today, many laugh it off, make an excuse for it, or claim that it isn't so bad because everyone is doing it.

Certainly adultery can be forgiven.  But, our MLCers - many who are also adulterers - need to stop their adultery, repent of their adultery, and ask God  and those who were hurt by their sin for forgiveness.  Adulterers will not enter the kingdom of heaven.  My prayer for all of our spouses is that they do repent of their sin of adultery.  That is why I believe many of us continue to stand. 

We all need to stop sugar coating the sin of adultery.  Adultery is a horrible word. So is the abominable action it represents.

I don't think people laugh it off, but rather they forgive and work towards building trust into their relationship part of that is coming to understand a little bit about why their spouse committed the sin in the first place.  I agree god doesn't like the sin of adultery but also it is a sin to not forgive too and there are no levels of sin in God's eye - sin is sin period and we are all forgiven by the lord when asked regardless of the so called "level" of sin according to man.  Now there are different punishments by man for certain sin like murder to be sure but they are men's laws not Gods.

    Matthew 6:14,15 "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

    Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

[FindingJules]

JoJo -  completely agree with post. I also agree with forgiveness. But, if you don't yet WANT to be forgiven...you can't be. And why wouldn't you WANT to be forgiven....because then you'd have to admit you are wrong. That's where my MLCer is...DENIAL. He has tried to justify to me on several occasions how this affair isn't wrong. Amazing. I know the truth....

[FindingJoJo]

JoJo -  completely agree with post. I also agree with forgiveness. But, if you don't yet WANT to be forgiven...you can't be. And why wouldn't you WANT to be forgiven....because then you'd have to admit you are wrong. That's where my MLCer is...DENIAL. He has tried to justify to me on several occasions how this affair isn't wrong. Amazing. I know the truth....

Forgiveness by us to whomever isn't about the person creating the sin.  it is about us understanding we cannot control their behavior, releasing us from being tied to their action and releasing us from the anger that will eat at us.  It is to release us from the resentment and bitterness.  I don't need my H to admit he was wrong he already knows that else why would he have guilt and shame?  What I did need is to forgive so I could move forward in my life, it doesn't mean I agree with his behavior by any means, wrong is wrong.  Besides it really doesn't matter in the long run because his salvation isn't going to come from me forgiving him, it has to come from a higher power and himself.  He won't grow until he asks for forgiveness from God and himself as well.  I have forgiveness because I needed to heal, I need to progress and I need to let go of the pain, anger and bitterness.  It isn't a free ticket and it doesn't say you were right to do it, it simply says that I am no longer affected by your behavior and can move forward.

[FindingJoJo]

That's where my MLCer is...DENIAL. He has tried to justify to me on several occasions how this affair isn't wrong. Amazing. I know the truth....

I think he knows the affair was wrong why else would he be trying to justify his behavior.  You do know the truth, he knows the truth and God knows the truth.  He isn't in denial he is trying to make himself feel better and wants you to acknowledge that it really was okay.  I would simply tell him to keep telling himself that one day he might even sound like he believes it and then he wouldn't try so hard to justify it.

[FindingJules]

Thanks JoJo...you are right...he is wanting me to say it's okay...because I was always his cheerleader and supporter in everything (because when he was Sweetheart he didn't do immoral things!).  Thank you!

[FindingJoJo]

Thanks JoJo...you are right...he is wanting me to say it's okay...because I was always his cheerleader and supporter in everything (because when he was Sweetheart he didn't do immoral things!).  Thank you!

Anytime its always easier to see the situation when it isn't our situation.  Mine just sits there and doesn't say anything other than if you knew the things I have done you wouldn't want to be with me.  Sort of scary considering the high level of crack ho he is with.

[honour]

Wow, Honour... JUDGE MUCH? .

LG, on reflection my post is too judgemental. Thank you for the truth dart.

honour

[Stillpraying]

Forgiveness by us to whomever isn't about the person creating the sin.  it is about us understanding we cannot control their behavior, releasing us from being tied to their action and releasing us from the anger that will eat at us.  It is to release us from the resentment and bitterness.  I don't need my H to admit he was wrong he already knows that else why would he have guilt and shame?  What I did need is to forgive so I could move forward in my life, it doesn't mean I agree with his behavior by any means, wrong is wrong.  Besides it really doesn't matter in the long run because his salvation isn't going to come from me forgiving him, it has to come from a higher power and himself.  He won't grow until he asks for forgiveness from God and himself as well.  I have forgiveness because I needed to heal, I need to progress and I need to let go of the pain, anger and bitterness.  It isn't a free ticket and it doesn't say you were right to do it, it simply says that I am no longer affected by your behavior and can move forward.

Thank you FJJ,
That is a very clear way of explaining forgiveness and is very helpful to me.
Thanks,
SP