[Rollercoasterider]

Maybe RCR can chime in but if they choose not to return...aren't they still running?

HB said pretty much everything, but I will just add a thought.

Is life that polar? Are there only two choices, good and bad, right and wrong? Are we the only means of salvation for our spouses, where all other choices mean damnation or that they are still nutters?

Just because we don't like an outcome does not mean it is bad or wrong. I hate divorce, really I do. But people get divorced all the time and still go on to live full and fulfilled lives.

If it were true that the only salvation were marital reconciliation, what would become of those MLCers whose spouses did not Stand--which is probably most? Or would that only apply to those with Standing spouses--and why, that would seem a bit random.

[Buggy31]

Maybe RCR can chime in but if they choose not to return...aren't they still running?

HB said pretty much everything, but I will just add a thought.

Is life that polar? Are there only two choices, good and bad, right and wrong? Are we the only means of salvation for our spouses, where all other choices mean damnation or that they are still nutters?

Just because we don't like an outcome does not mean it is bad or wrong. I hate divorce, really I do. But people get divorced all the time and still go on to leave full and fulfilled lives.

If it were true that the only salvation were marital reconciliation, what would become of those MLCers whose spouses did not Stand--which is probably most? Or would that only apply to those with Standing spouses--and why, that would seem a bit random.

I guess this may have not been articulated well.  What I am asking is more a case of taking responsibility rather than returning?  I realize that they could take responsibility and still not return and in that sense everything you question above makes sense....However, I was interested in how their inability to recognize or take responsibility would effect the complettion of their crisis....This of course raises a whole new set of questions about what IS taking responsibility....I am interested in as a perspective of a person's internal growth in the crisis.   For some men....just taking responsibility is a HUGE hurdle to overcome. 

[free]

I am new to the site.. but not new to the scenarios of OW, and MLC.
My thought is that we all have our own "reality". It is possible these beloved mates of ours can thrive, with a completely different world view? Perhaps right up to their last breath?

 I could not do this. Perhaps you could not do this. And yet, there are beings who have themselves in such an altered reality, that 10, 20 or 30 years with someone other than the ex spouse, and the children, is fine for them.

I would judge these men and women as "lost souls". And yet, I come across these beings fairly often. Some are on marriage number 3... or 4. They seem incapable of knowing what it is I believe  to be true. ... And , of course, what is true for them, I can not see.

Which brings us back to us.. the self. What is it that we thrive most in? Commiteed, loving, respectful relationships, fidelity, adventure... without a lot of storyline, or drama? (that would be my list.. not yours)? The challenge then is for each of us to live our own boundries.

[Writingmom]

I have friends that seem to think that OW has a bold demeanor regarding me; as in, she enjoys flaunting her sitch in my face and is somewhat calculating in her actions with me in mind.

I resigned to their relationship early on.  I have not engaged in any drama with her, called her, emailed, anything so I find it difficult to believe that I am enemy #1 in her life, although there have been instances that are beyond tacky and inappropriate.

Does anyone else have thoughts about OW/M's dislike of LBS?  I guess I am a little fascinated by what makes OW's tick.  This one seems a little left of center to be very nice.  Does their anger toward LBS grow along with their insecurity in the relationship?  I don't understand why she would direct it at me.  H is the cheater.  Why does she feel the need to maintain control where I am involve?  Doesn't she feel like she's won? 

[LettingGo]

WM, she will never feel she's won. Won what? A whole S***load of S***, that's what!

It is because you won't engage in her drama that she is especially angry with you. She can't claim you "are after her" or any such thing. She likes the attention, and you're not giving it to her.

I SO want to blow up my husband's OW life, because I COULD, but unfortunately, it would only make me look bad to him because she is so "wonderful". She only acts jealous because "she loves him so much" GAG me!!

Incidentally, my husband claims his OW has NEVER said one bad thing about me... my best friend says that is not possible if they are talking about me at all. I know it is speculation, but any opinions?

[Buggy31]

LG
my theory is, backed up by one of RCR's article, that some OW lay low...they cling...they hold back that part of their personality...until they can't anymore.  It might be that she hasn't, although it's hard to believe.  THey are in fantasy world so who knows what her acting capabilities are... the article also states that some OW love to hate the LBS and engage in drama.  I guess this is like WM's OW...I can't remember what article it is...maybe emotional blackmail or something.....If she's stroking his ego and manipulative she's probably talking about you and he is so CLUELESS he doesn't get it....like ohmigod...you don't deserve that...you are such an awesome person...why can't she see that....she's probably hurting cuz she loves you so much BLAH BLAH BLAHDITTY DA!  You know...who knows...they are such NUTTERs...the fact that Hs can't see it show how desperate they are...really.

[LettingGo]

Hmmm. You are probably right, Buggy... My husband's OW DID pull the one about "I'm going to apologize to LettingGo by opening a Facebook account... LettingGo is right! I AM a pig for taking you back when you keep going back and forth between the two of us... I will step aside and stop trying to win your love and keeping you from your children! And DON'T TRY TO STOP ME BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY and if LettingGo replies I will delete it before I read it!". That is the alleged email she was going to send me, VERBATIM, via HIM.

I told him it was a manipulation to get him to feel sorry for her and think she is such a good person and loves him so much she will do the right thing and that he FELL FOR IT HOOK, LINE and SINKER!! Of course, he incredulously denied that it wasn't true... after all, he read me the email from her! OMG, really questioning if I want this man back. What a dumbass! I totally see she feeds his "need" to be "loved" above EVERYTHING IN LIFE, no matter WHAT!!! You know, like he should have felt from his Mommy and Daddy, but NOOO, they were too f'd up to meet his needs...I hate to admit it, but I always told him (when I was desperate and we were fighting) that he was like "a black hole that can never be filled up!". So true.

[Writingmom]

I hate, hate, hate the devastation that these relationships bring. 

I don't know if OW is borderline or not.  Sometimes I hope not.  Sometimes I hope that they end up happily married forever (although not often!) just because of the kids.  OW spent most of the weekend with my D while H was with my sons and OW's kids doing fun stuff.  I hate it.  It's sickening.  When will their bubbles burst? 

And yes, LG, they do get a lot of mileage by stroking H's ever waning egos.  Please.  We would vomit if we heard all of the lies that go back and forth between the two!!  Her email to you is a prime example. 

Can't stand it!  I want their party to end. 

[Buggy31]

Hmmm. You are probably right, Buggy... My husband's OW DID pull the one about "I'm going to apologize to LettingGo by opening a Facebook account... LettingGo is right! I AM a pig for taking you back when you keep going back and forth between the two of us... I will step aside and stop trying to win your love and keeping you from your children! And DON'T TRY TO STOP ME BECAUSE I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY and if LettingGo replies I will delete it before I read it!". That is the alleged email she was going to send me, VERBATIM, via HIM.

I told him it was a manipulation to get him to feel sorry for her and think she is such a good person and loves him so much she will do the right thing and that he FELL FOR IT HOOK, LINE and SINKER!! Of course, he incredulously denied that it wasn't true... after all, he read me the email from her! OMG, really questioning if I want this man back. What a dumbass! I totally see she feeds his "need" to be "loved" above EVERYTHING IN LIFE, no matter WHAT!!! You know, like he should have felt from his Mommy and Daddy, but NOOO, they were too f'd up to meet his needs...I hate to admit it, but I always told him (when I was desperate and we were fighting) that he was like "a black hole that can never be filled up!". So true.

LG
I think you're right on here about OW....I believe this has been the OW tactic in my situation too.....like playing the innocent blonde with the curly hair and big eyes......"it's so SAD how much we love each other....I hate that what we're doing is wrong.....we have to leave our spouses....it isn't FAIR to them".....it's such BS....and the fact that my H fell for it makes me see him in a very different light....really......what a MORON...it's so predictable....

I do believe a lot of it is there search for unconditional love that they were denied as children.....I understand what it's like to live with a black hole....lNOTHING EVER SATISFIES......EVER...that's why I have NO WORRIES about the OW.....cuz as soon as my H gets to HAVE her....Guess what?......he won't WANT her....I can guarantee it....and when he wakes up to everything he's done to get her.........WOW....is that going to suck.....so I'm here moving on and I can't promise that I'll stand 4EVAH!  I'm here now but I want to be in a REAL relationship and I'm willing to hang in for awhile to see if it can be with H but if not I'll take what I've learned here and heal and experience the next ADVENTURE...

I know this sucks LG...but really...that ethnic "ho-tel" OW ain't got nothing on you.....really...she's an object.....and your H knows that for sure....but he's weak like mine....let's hope they can grow a set before it's too late.   

[Rollercoasterider]

I have friends that seem to think that OW has a bold demeanor regarding me; as in, she enjoys flaunting her sitch in my face and is somewhat calculating in her actions with me in mind.

I resigned to their relationship early on.  I have not engaged in any drama with her, called her, emailed, anything so I find it difficult to believe that I am enemy #1 in her life, although there have been instances that are beyond tacky and inappropriate.

Does anyone else have thoughts about OW/M's dislike of LBS?  I guess I am a little fascinated by what makes OW's tick.  This one seems a little left of center to be very nice.  Does their anger toward LBS grow along with their insecurity in the relationship?  I don't understand why she would direct it at me.  H is the cheater.  Why does she feel the need to maintain control where I am involve?  Doesn't she feel like she's won?[/font][/size]

It is likely the article before Emotional Blackmail: Jealousy and Envy that Buggy is thinking about. Though the entire Personality Disoorder series is mixed throughout this thread. But it was the Jealousy & Envy article which I first thought of when you described her as bold.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/affairandmidlifecrisispersonalitydynamics_personalitydisorder_jealousy.html
 
But think about it. Why would an alienator like you? You are the rival. She may bad mouth you, she may keep her mouth shut, but you aren't going to be buddies and she knows it--even if she has a sick fantasy that all three of you will live together someday, with you in the mother in-law unit downstairs. That was one of Sweetheart's alienator's ideas. I guess it cold have been worse and she cold have fantasized a three-way.

Why should she direct her anger at your MLCer? She wants him. So just as you are for him, you are also the convenient projection scapegoat for her also. He is the cheater regarding you, not her. This is true even if he leaves her for you a few times. It is true because he belongs to you and she knows it, so he can only cheat on you, not with you.

She will never feel like she has completely won. She will likely never feel this in any relationship since she has a history of mate predation. She is accustomed to being mistreated and infidelity. Her men have always cheated on her or left her.

She is probably Histrionic rather than Borderline--you said that she's good looking didn't you. Histrionics are especially attractive. They also are the female counterpart to the Narcissist. She may not have known you personally, but she may be envious of women in general--and particulalry women who she perceives as having the life she wants. Her boldness indicates some narcissism which can be an attribute of a Histrionic.