[Buggy31]

If our Hs ever wake up BOOOOOYOHBOOOOOOY r they gonna be soo grateful for us! Huh!?! 

[Butterfly]

I have a question about the affair. Has anyone experienced their spouse avoiding bringing the OW into their old social circles, primarily keeping the relationship around all new friends? Even after divorce. It seems like they aren't as comfortable with their soulmate meeting family and old friends. My H was noted to take a long route around a football stadium to visit friends, and to avoid intro to OW. But she followed him and he had to introduce her. Just curious whether spouses flaunt or try to keep it quiet. And what motivates either behavior?

[LettingGo]

Mine already is, but he'd better grow a set of REAL balls when he's done with all of this... he's gonna need 'em A: to deal with me and B: so I can respect him.

[LifeGoesOn]

Hi Sammi...My H has not brought OW around any of friends, or even to our side of town. When they go out, they stay "on the other side of the tracks". Mostly dive bars where there is no chance of running into me, the kids or our friends. If he does go to an event, he goes alone. She was not ever introduced to the kids. Even their common friends at work stopped seeing them!

I am not sure why. I would like to think it is out of respect. If that was the case, he would not have lived with her.

I believe it is because he wants to return to our marriage and knows that would burn a bridge. It may also be because he is embarrassed by her. She is obviously an affair down with minimal social skills.

It might be interesting to see if a strong degree of monster behavior correlates with OP flaunting.

Another correlation may be how extremely the MLCer has compartmentalized his life. My H is a pro at little boxes, and even becomes confused if I mention someone that exists in the other box.

Interested in hearing others ideas!

[Trustandlove]

Hi, all,

There is a lot of talk here about it definitely being replay if there is still OW, in many, many ways and cases that is clearly so. 

But I wanted to bring up what RCR said to me in the coaching archives: 

There is this myth that people have on the board that an OW=Replay. That is not true. Yes, it is common, but OWs can outlast Replay—or OW searches. If a couple divorces and then one or both seek other relationships do we look at them and assume they are in Replay because they are not trying to get together with their original spouse? Doesn’t that seem a bit absurd in that context. And yet we transfer it to our MLC context and it must be Replay. Some MLCer come through the crisis and choose not to return to their spouses and actively search for and find a new partner. That doesn’t mean they have gone back into the tunnel! Do we really think they are going to remain celibate for the rest of their years? Come on.

The other thing that was said that really leaves me wanting to ask for more explanation was this -- in response to my saying that I was wondering/fearing that he had come through, and had decided that life with me/us was not what he wanted:

It is common for MLCers who return to do so broken, but that is not always how it happens.

The idea of "what if it were mutual?" has been brought up in this same bit of the coaching archives; again, it's one of those answers that raises more questions.....

Thoughts?

[justasking]

I just wanted to add to the replay question.

My friends H came home and OW was still there until the night before when my friend said enough and meant it. Bizarrely I had seen him go through withdrawal and true reconnection whilst he was still with OW.

He has since identified that although OW was 'with' him, he wasn't really wanting to be with her but her threats were so scary to him i.e suicide that he felt it better to stay with her than come home.

When the my friend gave him the last ultimatum that threat was greater than OW's threats and he walked away.

By the way they are rebuilding their 'new' relationship and are very happy.

So I think replay/not repay is very confusing as each scenario is different and subjective.

[Buggy31]

T&L
I had a similiar question to HB on Still's thread....Just wondering about those MLCers who choose not to return....Maybe RCR can chime in but if they choose not to return...aren't they still running?   or can they come through the entire crisis, acceptance and all and still not choose to come into the relationship....Wouldn't that mean they are still in replay or a matter of them not being able to face all the damage, even though they've healed?  Very interested in this topic....HOpe my questions make sense...

[mercury]

My Guess:

I think that the LBS would see the other stages and when they continued on in the opposite direction, we'd know what they decided. I was also told that they must make amends to us to really complete the full mlc cycle (read lost & unsure).  It may be just an I'm sorry but they have to face us to face what they did, its at that time we get them back or we don't and that is only if we are still standing.  We will know when it is over.

The real thing that you should focus on (and me too) isn't THEM its US.  I know believe me how hard that is but  what we need to really learn, they hurt us and continue to hurt us everyday, with NC or monster or OWs/OMs, we are the important ones they are not anymore, once they decided to ... they lost the specialness that made them important.  We all what that back, but all things die in this world.  They may not have what it takes to come back, they may get stuck, they may bounce back an forth between stages, and they may not decided to come home and we may decided we don't want them too. I do believe that when the time comes to either stop standing or take them back we will know.

As for broken, they are broken now, maybe they need us to fix them (our love/forgiveness/strength) or they will always be broken.  I have much work to do on myself, so right now I hope they remain broken if they don't come home.

[HeartsBlessing]

There is this myth that people have on the board that an OW=Replay. That is not true. Yes, it is common, but OWs can outlast Replay—or OW searches. If a couple divorces and then one or both seek other relationships do we look at them and assume they are in Replay because they are not trying to get together with their original spouse? Doesn’t that seem a bit absurd in that context. And yet we transfer it to our MLC context and it must be Replay. Some MLCer come through the crisis and choose not to return to their spouses and actively search for and find a new partner. That doesn’t mean they have gone back into the tunnel! Do we really think they are going to remain celibate for the rest of their years? Come on.

I don't know how OWs can outlast Replay, when the initial OW or even multiple OWs can be part of the symptoms of their issues/crisis.
The marriage was put asunder when (A)they decide they don't want to be married anymore and (B)there is another person involved; most likely adultery, if the affair has gone physical.


What RCR is illustrating in the later part of her answer, however, is a distinct POSSIBILITY of the crisis...there are MANY things that can happen as a result of the crisis.

The MLC'er can continue to change and evolve, EVEN as they decide they truly do not want the marriage anymore; and that decision needs to be respected and accepted.

It is also possible at the breaking of Withdrawal, to decide NOT to continue with the marriage.  That doesn't mean they have moved backward into Replay, either.

It's THEM, not the LBS.

Remember they are making some important decisions during this time, and they are examining their marriage closely during this time, even as they wander within the fog of MLC.

BUT---it is also possible to decide at ANY time to walk away and never come back, because the MLC'er feels the damage is too great to try again...and this is up to them, NOT the LBS.

By that time, though, the LBS is no longer a part of their life, in their own minds,  and the MLC'er can or has moved on either to another marriage, OR even they could decide NOT to remarry for whatever reason.

These literally choose to break ALL ties, and it is hard for the LBS to accept, especially the ones who've stood for years, not wanting to accept that it very well could be over.

Making choices that seem to not be acceptable, affects the MLC'ER, not the LBS.

Remember, they are searching even as they are on their journey, and they could very well decide NOT to continue in their current marriage.

You have to accept ALL possibilities of this, not just some of them.  On top of that, remember, you have NO control over what they decide to do; you will NEVER have control over the decisions they make.  Good or bad, they WILL decide.

These are the hard questions to consider...all the LBS can do, is grow and change, and hope that it doesn't happen this way...but it COULD....and this is ALSO something that is difficult to get your head around.

All of the analyzing in the world will not change what has happened, nor will it fix the problem that is inherent within the MLC'er....all you can do is get on with your life, learn the lessons, change what you can, accept what you can't and get on with it.

Hopefully, this will help.

[ece711]

You have to accept ALL possibilities of this, not just some of them.  On top of that, remember, you have NO control over what they decide to do; you will NEVER have control over the decisions they make.  Good or bad, they WILL decide.

These are the hard questions to consider...all the LBS can do, is grow and change, and hope that it doesn't happen this way...but it COULD....and this is ALSO something that is difficult to get your head around.

All of the analyzing in the world will not change what has happened, nor will it fix the problem that is inherent within the MLC'er....all you can do is get on with your life, learn the lessons, change what you can, accept what you can't and get on with it.

Hopefully, this will help.

HB,

 I totally agree with this statement.