[Mermaid]

There are narcissists to avoid, at all costs.

The point is, they are on a spectrum. They are all around us, and sometimes we can deal with them. See these:

  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201601/9-myths-about-narcissism-almost-everyone-believes

  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/romance-redux/201601/the-5-most-dangerous-myths-about-narcissism-part-1

[Albatross]

MLCers all of them become narcissists in crisis. So, he not necessary should be narcissist whole life. In fact each of us going trough narcissistic phases during life.

[Mermaid]

MLCers all of them become narcissists in crisis. So, he not necessary should be narcissist whole life. In fact each of us going trough narcissistic phases during life.

Yes, they seem to. But not everyone has a crisis, and it's not all about midlife.

Some of our spouses have a crisis because they have some sort of personality disorder, including narcissism. This can be mild or serious.

If the personality disorder is extreme, it would be better to leave the relationship. If it's milder, there's a chance that we can handle them, but need to do it the right way. That's my current mission... How to handle them?

My H is no longer in the depth of his crisis, but in some sense he is in crisis with life. His crisis was 8 years ago, and he's been back for years. I've realised that elements I tolerated before were signs of his narcissistic self-protection. I thought it was something else; introversion, work stress, etc.

That's the thing about MLC; we face ourselves in this, and realise things we hadn't realised before. H has been a difficult person for many years, and when he was grossly unfair, when he wouldn't listen to my side, when he criticised non stop, when he avoided intimacy, I tried talking, but when that failed, and he persisted in his criticisms/egocentric behaviour, I lost my temper and yelled at him. He was never able to work things out, not the next day when things were cooler, or any time. In fact what my yelling did was to make him withdraw more.

Not that I was wrong to yell... He'd always provoked me beyond what was tolerable by then... But it wasn't the way to help him understand and build intimacy.

I think he cracked under the strain of many things at midlife; overwork (his refuge), the cracks in his ability to deal with intimacy, burnout, disappointment with work and life, and feeling trapped. The build up to it was when he had to face his father's death all over again because of some media incident.

During midlife he kept saying he needed to work out what distance to have from me. Post midlife, he withdrew, but now that he's not so withdrawn, his narcissism, as mild as it is, is more obvious.

He's not a big manipulator, not as critical as he one else was, but he has to maintain his self image as one who's (quietly) superior. No one else is able to give an opinion on anything he always knows better, and will silence dissenting voices. His armoury is the fact that he reads so much, works so hard, and follows so many news programmes, that he has a pretty good insight into many things. He avoids intimacy of any sort, living just side by side with me, without much empathy, selfishly and aloof from the world.

The point of putting it here and bumping up this thread is that I'm sure he's not the only one. Several LBS have reported realising that their spouse has some underlying PD which they'd sort of ignored until ML. Some have realised that their wasn't a R worth saving.

The point is that in these cases, the underlying PD causes the MLC, and the PD becomes much worse, much more obvious, as if the mask has finally slipped.

We have to realise what role we play as foils to their PD, and change our behaviour, mostly to be more healthy in ourselves but also to make the relationship functional.

This only works in some cases. It's important to realise that PDs, and certainly narcissism, are on a spectrum. Spouses with extreme versions should be avoided!

[Albatross]

The point of putting it here and bumping up this thread is that I'm sure he's not the only one. Several LBS have reported realising that their spouse has some underlying PD which they'd sort of ignored until ML. Some have realised that their wasn't a R worth saving.

The point is that in these cases, the underlying PD causes the MLC, and the PD becomes much worse, much more obvious, as if the mask has finally slipped.

We have to realise what role we play as foils to their PD, and change our behaviour, mostly to be more healthy in ourselves but also to make the relationship functional.

This only works in some cases. It's important to realise that PDs, and certainly narcissism, are on a spectrum. Spouses with extreme versions should be avoided!

I understand, and I agree with You that all of them have some PD ingredients before they hit the crisis, but difference between them and maladaptive PD people is that maladaptive ones could not sustain in long therm relationship as our MLCers does ! Also our MLCers aren't maladaptive at all before crisis.

[in it]

A narcissist in a MLC is about as bad as it gets. Reflecting back on the long term relationship I was in I can see it very clearly now. It was always there - MLC magnified it.

If I started with stories of the ex's behavior and entitled attitude and selfishness along with bouts of rage in the 28 years I was involved with him today? I might be able to finish it by next year sometime. I'd rather not keep him in my head that long.

And if they happen to latch onto someone who's FOO issues match their pathology? A extremely unhealthy abusive  relationship can go on for a very very long time.

[Searching4Answers]

A narcissist in a MLC is about as bad as it gets. Reflecting back on the long term relationship I was in I can see it very clearly now. It was always there - MLC magnified it.

If I started with stories of the ex's behavior and entitled attitude and selfishness along with bouts of rage in the 28 years I was involved with him today? I might be able to finish it by next year sometime. I'd rather not keep him in my head that long.

And if they happen to latch onto someone who's FOO issues match their pathology? A extremely unhealthy abusive  relationship can go on for a very very long time.

This is exactly my situation too.

I understand, and I agree with You that all of them have some PD ingredients before they hit the crisis, but difference between them and maladaptive PD people is that maladaptive ones could not sustain in long therm relationship as our MLCers does ! Also our MLCers aren't maladaptive at all before crisis.

I disagree Albatross...

I think that they can be in long term relationships because the LBS is the one sustaining the relationship and the MLCer didn't have to do any of the work so they do stay around long term.

[Thunder]

My 1st H was a true narcissist.  The whole world revolves around them 24/7.
They are just born with no conscience what to ever.

[in it]

You got it Searching4Answers.


And this is just how messed up it got:

I thought HE was the one holding things together it was me. It was me!

He did tell me the ONLY thing I meant to him was sex..now that I can believe.

[Albatross]

I understand, and I agree with You that all of them have some PD ingredients before they hit the crisis, but difference between them and maladaptive PD people is that maladaptive ones could not sustain in long therm relationship as our MLCers does ! Also our MLCers aren't maladaptive at all before crisis.

I disagree Albatross...

I think that they can be in long term relationships because the LBS is the one sustaining the relationship and the MLCer didn't have to do any of the work so they do stay around long term.

Definition of PD people is that they cannot be in long term relationships. Even in case that You are codependent, even in case that You are PD person (in such a case relationship would fall faster). Only when PD person can be in long therm relationship is true narcissist with inverted narcissist.

Seems to me like You ladies rewrite some history of Yours relationship... who can blame You for that ? MLC is painful and long process for both MLCer and LBS.

[in it]

You know Albatross I've thought about that..rewriting the history I had with the ex. Maybe I'm the one with the MLC 
 And I may be doing that. If I am it's protecting me from getting involved with him again..or even to talk to him.
The first year we lived together was the best.

I lost trust in him when (as for the second time he stole things)..I thought he'll grow out of that. You know what? He never did. Even when I went back we went out shopping together and he stole something else. His excuse? "I don't know what came over me" COME ON Are you kidding me??

I had him pegged from the beginning right after we first met. He drove me nuts until I told him I'd give a relationship with him a shot.

I made excuses for him. I let a lot of things slide.Enabled him. I verbally fought with him for a very long time. Guess what? Nothing got resolved. HE would not LISTEN to me. I was STUPIDLY thinking he would MATURE and then he may develop some character or at least some kind of thought for someone else..

As for the physical abuse and control? It only got worse. Not only with me he also choked his supervisor at work and lost his job.
EVEN THEN I said well we'll just go off in another direction. The family was intact. There was some savings the house was paid off..he and I could figure it out. He's creative and can build things. There are things to sell. He isn't stupid! That's another thing that makes this so infuriating!

I was looking for a job since he could no longer get one with an incident of violence in the workplace. Was that my fault?? Could I have stopped that?

Oh no that wasn't enough stress and drama. He had to get involved with another woman. Get a divorce and drive me nuts and not leave me alone to heal. I get to stand by and watch as he rips my children's hearts out. Does that sound like fun??
So like an idiot I went back.Then after that? He had to be a rock star.

Now Albatross do you want me to admit to being a narcissist?? NO PROBLEM. I consider my self somewhat of one now since I have some of my self esteem and self respect back after dealing with him. I deserve to be treated better than I was in that relationship .

Every year on our anniversary he would ask me " How many years have we been married?" No card, no Happy Anniversary, no thought, no anything. That went on for years.Maybe he and I would go out with friends for dinner. I think there may have been 2 or three he might have gotten me something. My birthday..nothing and nothing at Christmas ...for years.

Anytime I needed him he bailed on me. When I was physically ill or anything struggling emotionally it was run for the door. And that was for the entire relationship! Oops I forgot..I did have a cold one time and he made me a grilled cheese sandwich ONCE. What a prince!

At one family vacation he drove 84 miles an hour in the car HIS WHOLE FAMILY IS IN THE CAR! That includes his mother. Why did he do it?..you ready for this? He was pissed at me! Why would anyone risk the lives of at the very least their own children to do that?

There was a lot more bad than good. And whatever good he said or did was out weighted by all the lousy times there were. And I'm glad to be rid of him.

 I'm not an angel nor am I perfect and thank GOD for that. I have taken the focus OFF him and put it on me for a switch.