[Mamma Bear]

 Yeah  Trusting I know how you feel. Any nugget of dysfunction between them is great news. When my D told me the other day that ow had taken her baby across state lines without telling the baby's father(her exH) and lost custody to him I was so happy. Still am. Made all the articles become clearer.  Or as we say at work clearerer.   These OP are meaningless. But right now they are a distraction.   Our Hs need to be in Fantasy Land right now. That's where God put them. 
  I don't think the length of an A (under/over 18 mos) matters bc like everything else in life 'some people are just SLOW LEARNERS'

[LifeGoesOn]

TMPH,

I did not mean to scold you for looking at the affair. Read my recent posts and you will find them full of references to hobag. I get great relief from occasional  focus on the A. Sometimes i can't help it b/c their behavior reaches out and slaps me in the face. The A is the HARDEST aspect to deal with in all of this, IMHO. It is also the reason to detach, and only keep them in your peripheral vision. Posting your questions and concerns  is a good thing! Focusing on the A while you are here is ok! This is the place for it as opposed to your real life. 

I did mean to discourage you from looking at the stats. Your behaviors and activity at this time are the best predictors. Trust that the alienator is, as HB puts it, a placeholder. H is attracted to the similarity of their dysfunctions, to work through his own. You do not have those dysfunctions/character flaws/fears that he needs to work through. You do not want them either! let them have at it and it will self destruct. I go back and read RCR's articles on this topic when I feel doubtful. It helps.

Some quotes from OP and HB,
Believe nothing you hear and half of what you see. (or maybe the other way around?)
Nothing is as it seems.
Detach (a constant work in progress for me)

[kie]

Well, BD for me was 17 September 2008 so it's three years and two months since the affair started. The affair started in July 2008. Mine is a vanisher, I haven't seen him for more than a year and we have not spoken to each other for years. Our communication is through email from time to time. For the first nine months they each had their own rental but were always together at her place or at his place, after that they got one rental and live together for two years now and are also working together so they are together 24/7, sharing a room. So, affairs can last longer even when they see each other so often. Even when they are 24/7 with each other the affair takes a long, long time. I have read the statement about living together the affair ends sooner a bunch of times so I thought the affair should be dead by now, but no way, it is still going and my patience is running out.

I heard a few months ago that in February 2011 my MLC´er said to his friend that she is there just for sex and that he is still not happy and thinking of living alone in the future but it is now Oktober 2011 so what are words to a friend? I get hope when I hear those things but there is still no guarantee that he will be back.

It is very hard to continue to stand when there is no sign of anything, I only hear rumours in very small doses. In the last email that we shared it was only a lot of resentment and anger from his side, so he is still deep in the tunnel after all those years. I sometimes try to date someone but I have not met anyone that I like. Still living in the marital home I feel that my life is on hold for a very long time. But I still want him back, after all that he has put me through and I find that very strange about me. Holding on to what was, instead of going forward. He is stuck, I am stuck. According to my sister he is never capable to take a good look at himself, I always thought that he will come through but now I doubt everything. Because there is no movement.

[TrustingMyHP]

Kie,

You are one brave woman.  If you still want him back (or "forward" ready to work on your relationship as RCR says) than I hope you can continue to keep hope alive. 

I've only been at this 9 months and I'm already so tired.  And I know I have many years ahead.  It really is daunting.

I try to remind myself I can only live one day at a time anyway.  Those days are going to happen in my life whatever I do, so, right now, I'm willing to continue my stand, trying to do things I enjoy, and fill the loneliness in ways that won't jeapardize my M (i.e. dating.) as best I can.

We're heros, Kie.  We truly are!

TMHP

[kie]

Thanks TMHP for your kind words,

I now how hard it is in the beginning, it gets easier with time but sometimes it is so tiring. I enjoy my life, do lots of great stuff, wonderful sons who adore me and I try to give them a house full op peace and joy. Wherever I go, they will follow me in a heartbeat. They don't want to live with their father, they visit him regularly. My divorce was February 2010 so I am "allowed" to date someone else but it is very hard for me after a long marriage to find someone attractive. There is so much hurt that I don't think an other man could understand. The first two and a half years I didn't date. Now, for the last half year I have met two guys which I have met for two hours or so for a cup of coffee and then we both go our way because there is no connection. Baby steps in the dating area. I have zero confidence of finding someone I like because my MLC'er is still in my heart. But I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life and there is no movement at all on the side of my MLC'er, it's all a crapshoot, so I try to keep going forward with my life the best I can.

[Trustandlove]

kie,

I'm another long-term inmate.  I know exactly what you mean.  I think the length of time it takes is mind-boggling. 

Right now I've been thinking about the Stockdale Paradox:

"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."

I can understand that you feel a bit stuck, but I think that is all part of the process as well.  We have to go through those periods to come out the other side. 

[kie]

Yes, the length is indeed mind-boggling and I know that MLC takes time but I could never think of the length it has taken till now. I always thought, well August 2010 he will be awake or other timeframes and all the dates in my head have gone by. So now I think it will never happen.

A few weeks ago the housesale came a little bit closer and I am thrilled to get my own place, to decorate everything different and it's all in my head already. So, fingers crossed. But I worry about my financial situation in later years and I can't let those thoughts go. My MLC'er and I had a very good life financially. When I think about my future I see me struggling financially and at other times I picture me and my MLC'er in my head, doing great things, enjoying life. Certain things, simple things, I want to do in life I want to do with him. Those fantasies make my day from time to time. They give me energy to go on. But the bad days are still there from time to time. Luckely, less and less.

[Trustandlove]

The stockdale paradox story says exactly that -- that those who didn't make it (out of the prison camps) were those who had definite dates by which they expected to be free.  When those dates came and went they got too discouraged, and didn't survive.

That is why it is important not to have timelines, and to do as you are doing -- get on with life in the meantime. 

But yes, I do understand the wanting to do things in life with him.  Very much. 

I am glad the bad days are fewer and fewer; I know that, too. 

Good luck with your new house situation -- that does sound good!

[TrustingMyHP]

kie and T&L,

Your posts really hit home with me.  I love the Stockdale paradox!  I actually met him many years ago.  He was on the board of a small college I worked at back in the early 1980s (I'm ancient.  I think I'm the oldest person on this board!)

I, too, imagine all the things I want to do with my H when/if we reconcile.  I find it a comfort on the bad days, too.

One of my fantasies is we'll get married in the Catholic Church on our 40th anniversary (20 months from now.)  We were married in a civil ceremony at a courthouse with two witnesses.  A civil marriage is not considered a marriage by the Church. (According to the Church I've been "living in sin" for 38 years!http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif)

I'd left Catholicism a few years before we married so it didn't matter to me then but I've returned to my faith, even before BD but especially since, and I now want to be right with my God.

I have this wonderful, old church in the inner city about 40 miles from my house I've been going to for the last 5 years.  The priests are ancient, they do the Latin mass, Gregorian chant , incense and tons of statues, the whole 1950s early '60s Catholic experience.  It's the Church of my youth and I love it.  Contemporary Catholic worship leaves me cold but this I love.

So I plan my wedding right down to the hor'deurves at the reception!  And of course my wedding dress, who's going to be my bridgesmaids, what my husband will look like, the music etc

Sounds crazy/pathetic I know.  And 20 months from now is way to early for a reconciliation, I'm sure.  On well, I can dream.  Yet, even if it's 6 years from now, it's something to hope for.  And hope is the "fuel" that helps lessen the times of despair and depression.

I know the early months are the worst.  I do feel myself getting stronger each month.  I also, though, feel myself less certain that my marriage is going to survive as the months go by.

The reality that my marriage is 100% over is becoming ever more real to me.  That makes me sad.  I tell myself this is God's plan, whatever happens, that makes me feel calm.

I await the future and, in the meantime, am doing what I can to make a new life and count my blessings!

TMHP
 

[WarriorPriestess]

For an interesting perspective on waiting and time, take a look sometime at the online message boards for people who are dating or married to someone who is in prison.  There are many who are serving life sentences, and their spouses are still hopeful that they will be together some day.  Although we can never know for sure, hopefully most MLC will be resolved sooner than 25 to life!  (And hopefully most won't end up convicted felons either, but that's a whole other issue.  )