[hampc0cv]

B,

Awhile back I asked my counseler why my H had to be with the ow when he couldn't even be with me when he was home.  Her answer was as long he is with her to keep him occupied he does not have time to think about us or what they are doing.  She said that men are also able to turn off feelings or thoughts unlike us females.  So as long as he is working, occupied or with the ow he does not think of all the wrong he has done and therefore does not acknowledge it so it doesn't exist.

She also told me that they do forget things and my H started forgetting things.  He called my daughter three things about the same event coming up in March of this year and he called her three times in a row about it in February.  She kept telling him the same thing but he didn't remember.

My H also liked hanging out with the younger kids (my 21 year old daughters friends and trying to stay up as late as he could) I was worried about him not getting enough sleep and he said he could sleep when he was dead.

Also, he had to keep busy all the time.  Never doing anything at home but had to be at the club, doing things there, hanging out with whoever just to keep busy and not be at home (counseler said he didn't want that responsibility and being at home and seeing me or hearing my voice made him remember he had responsblitiy).  He always had to be on the go or he got bored.

That is all I can tell you that I have been told.  She told me this was the MLC because he did not want any responsibilty and wanted a different life that he thinks will make him happy but wont.

[Purple stain]

hey Hamp, just to weight in on what you said. Your counselor is wrong in my opinion, men can't just turn their feelings and thoughts on and off (my h actually told me this, as he wished he could, which confirms my theory). If that was the case, there wouldn't be any MLC as the MLCer would just turn the aforementioned feelings off. The MLCers just keep themselves occupied with whatever distractions they have. For some it's sports, for others it's drinking, hanging out with younger people etc. They welcome any distraction as long as it keeps them from thinking.

Looking back, my h always enjoyed the company of college kids at his sports club. They didn't have any responsibilities etc. and I'm sure in one way or another he envied them. It became a problem between us as he wanted to keep living the bachelor lifestyle not acknowledging the responsibilities he had (even prior to meeting me).

It's the same for us, when we're occupied we don't think about our pain and the situation we're in. When I'm at work, I only think about it when I'm not busy.

I know that my h has been tormented by his own feelings and thoughts. He told me on several occasions he couldn't sleep cause he kept on thinking about stuff even though he was exhausted.

hope this helps

[stayed]

I agree purple stain, saying that about men is horribly "generalizing"... obviously, not all men do that, if so, why do we have men in the same situation as us, at this moment, whose WIVES are having an MLC?  I think all people do that, when they do not wish to face something, they DISTRACT themselves with FUN THINGS, or at least things they think should be fun.  My h did that, he even said that in his letter here.  Keep yourself so busy you have no time to think.... THAT WAS HIS SOLUTION to his problems, anything but FACING THEM!

Men and women alike, do this.  MLC/ betrayal is not a "gender specific" affliction.  Both sexes partake almost equally in this.  I believe that as more women become as successful as men, you will see even more women suffering from this.  Quite honestly, I think it is mostly just a means of coping with life, or at least starts out that way.  Then the chaos and carnage becomes evident and people in general just don't know how to put the "genie back in the bottle".  I think it is an attempt to put fun and happiness back in their lives and for most of us, those happy, irresponsible days were in our youth.  So, when our lives become too much of a burden, when our inner happiness is screaming for attention, it seems like a natural starting point to me.  The problem is, we are not 16 or 25, we are not single with no responsibilities..... takes a while to FIGURE that out sometimes. 

Given time though, most do.  Given time you will also rekindle your own childish zest and joy for life.  Once that happens, you have a very good place to reboot your new life.  Start fresh with the zest and zeal of youth but the wisdom of age.  Seems like a darn good place to start from to me.

I wouldn't worry too much about the "why's".... in the end, it really doesn't matter.  It will be what you MAKE of your own life, from this day forward.  Whether you are able to use this to your advantage and rebuild yourself into a better person and hopefully, use what you have learned from this to rebuild a new life, with or without your spouse. 

[CrazyStuff]

Stayed, I have posted something on my thread in the subscribers area, which you do not access so I have some question here for you.   H. set up meeting with our D17 & S14 to meet OW without my knowledge (and against our original informal agreement) after weeks of pressure although in the end it was their decision to meet her.      We have two older children who refuse to meet with her. 

I only found out yesterday after D24 said I needed to speak to D17.    H.'s actions / antics have caused a rift between the older & younger children.   When I found out yesterday I confronted h. who said it was none of my business.   He was due to take S14 to cinema yesterday evening and then OW & her D13 asked to go as well.  In the end S14 went with his dad on his own.   

It was not a nice scene; however, it is clear that h. is trying to juggle many balls and not managing to keep anyone happy.   Some of what he said was laughable such as I did not have the moral right to stop him seeing his children.  For the record I never have.  He also said I should trust him.   

Hearing him talk about morals and trust shows how deep in the fog he is at the moment.

He even blamed me for him not having much contact with children - complete rubbish.

I know your children were older when your h. lived with OW so you may not have any direct experience here.   

My gut instinct is to limit contact between OW & my children to avoid them getting pulled too far into this drama.      It is a seriously mixed up relationship with her own D13 have problems at school and already having sex - my h. told D17 this.     Also, OW pulled her children out of school to move 100+ miles so that my h. could be near his children.   It was her idea!   

Both of my younger children are now having problems at school - grades slipped dramatically in 3 months.

A counsellor told me that normally divorcing parents are asked to wait 12 months before introducing new partners and told me that this current situation is very unhealthy (as if I didn't know).

Now that your h. is out the other side do either of you have a view on how to handle and protect children.   If you children had been younger would what would you have done?   Would also be interested in hearing if your h. has a view on this

CrazyStuff

[Glimmer]

Just catching up on this thread, it is fascinating reading.

Bewildered and true to myself,

Your comments about your Hs lack of concern when you hurt yourself, brings back a situation of my own.

Around 3 years ago, I had a number of health problems which I struggled to deal with.  I discovered I had a heart problem, which needed surgery twice. Shortly after that I was diagnosed with diabetes.  As a result of that, I started to experience panic attacks, when I would go to the supermarket and had to queue for any length of time.  My H was under considerable stress already holding down 2 jobs and studying for a degree. So to say he had little sympathy for what I was going through was an understatement.  He would really lose his temper, something he had never done before, and he would tell me it was time I got over it and that I should snap out of it. He had always been so caring so this was a big shock for me, to think I was a nuisance.  It got to the point where he wouldn't even attend hospital appointments with me. Looking back, I think this probably kick started his MLC, as looking after a sick wife was not how he had foreseen his future.

[stayed]

Hi Crazystuff, quite honestly I don't know.  To my mind, reflecting backwards to when my children were 13 and 17, they pretty much had minds of their own.  Even in the courts, I do believe they are allowed to choose the parent  they prefer in the event of a divorce. 

I think that as long as you make it clear to your children that you will support whatever they decide to do, is the most important part. They should not feel like they are betraying you, for wanting to keep their father in their lives.  You probably should have a discussion with your older children as well.  They need to remember that they had their father for a few more years then the younger kids... and the younger kids are probably afraid of loosing him completely... shouldn't happen but children and teens do worry about such things. 

Your two teens need the support of their older siblings and yourself and be allowed to decide what they THINK they would like to do.  If they try, believe me, and they DO NOT LIKE IT.... they will say so, teens usually don't hold back a lot.   

Hugs sweetie... be strong, don't wait, STAND... stand until YOU are healed, until you know what YOU want.... turn this thing around and make it about YOU honey, not HIM!

[CrazyStuff]

Stayed, thank you.  This all makes sense.   The younger children want to remain with me and have never considered anything else.   It is also true though that they are scared of losing their dad.     

This evening we are going to have a family conflab to talk through all of this (minus the missing MLCer) - I will support them in seeing their father even if it is with OW & her family; however, the recent sneaking around, lies and half truths has to stop as it is not healthy.   

Youngest, aged 14, does not know what to do and just goes along with things.

Turns out OW knew when she met the children last weekend that no-one had spoken to me; she also has been seen on our street twice in the last week.   She didn't stay around last night though when I confronted h.   

When this all started h. was to get an apartment on his own for 12 months nearby and see our children most days (helping with homework, etc,.).  He also promised me he would not bring her anywhere near our neighbourhood.   I know you cannot trust a MLCer so I should not be surprised.   As for her, even my D17 knows that no sane mother would put their own children into the situation she has or pretend it was o.k. living with a married man.   

The man I knew six months ago has disappeared and the shell that is left is a liar, manipulative, insensitive and a coward.

Another bit of MLC craziness - H. told D17 that he was not having an affair because I knew about it so therefore could not be considered as such.   My children have had to listen to this crap for the past two months and he still hasn't shut up.

 I am thankful that I threw him out (although he seems to have forgotten that now) as I really believe he would have continued for some time living at home and sneaking off to see OW when it pleased him.     Will shortly start a new thread (current one starts with 'I threw him out....' and put this first part of MLC behind me. 

I am strong although I did look at H. last night and thought 'You are pathetic'.    This is now about me and as long as he continues to pay his share of the bills I want nothing to do with him.   

About to go out for a long walk in the bright cold sun before making dinner.

Have a good day and many thanks for stepping in here.

CrazyStuff

[Bewildered]

Glimmer, Stayed, Ha mp, PS, CS and JKM

 - I know my H has been since he left doing stuff/ anything to not think or face his issues - he told me s much - sorta cries for help - and whilst STAYED you see his actions as him knowing what he's doing and totally in control  (I agree) it's because he is in such control that he will fall apart eventually and I do see the cracks appearing - he is slowly not being able to continue his running away (I think he is terrified about coming home because he wont want to leave) he is seeing more of the children or trying to, reconnecting with his old life- slowly facing his issues one by one. Most interesting is his dealing with the major issues (his lack of empathy, concern, etc I had with us that I had tried to discuss and got nowhere (well I discussed he just stared at me with a wide eyed rabbit in the headlights look on his face)  one thing Id told about one of his colleagues he would not listen - I have been proved 100% right and so for another 3 things he just could not see - but has subtly let me know he knows I was right and he is sorry
BUT
He is still scared at how he is going to fix his life so he running again its the easy option isn't it for now................

B XX

[justkeepmoving]

I think the selfishness, apathy, and general numbness to anyone else's feelings of MLCers is what I just can't wrap my head around.  My H was such a caring father before all of this and now just nothing.  He too has caused such a rift between him and his Ds that I don't know if it is ever repairable. 
My D22 said the other day that he is not allowed in our home.  I told her that it isn't her decision as this is my house now and I will decide that.  I will however take their feelings into concern as I know somewhere deep down the devoted family man is still there.
I think his new life is tumbling down around him but lacks the courage to do anything about it.  As long as he stays away he doesn't have to face us.
I agree with what Stayed said I believe that he let the genie out of the bottle and doesn't know how to put him back.  I have told him where I stand that it is not in my nature to close the door.  I don't know if that was the right thing to tell him as he knows he has a soft place to fall when he actually does crash and burn.
For now he is still running, running and running some more.  I will just have to watch and wait to see if any nuggets of truth actually did get through that thick fog.

[Glimmer]

I also think my H is totally in control and knows exactly what he is doing. He is playing a game that stops him facing up to reality as he doesn't want to deal with it right now.

A while ago I asked him if he felt guilty or ashamed of the way he was treating people. Shifting his emotions from me to OW, when he left from visiting home and then going to see her.

He told me he had learnt how to switch off from the guilt, so he doesn't have to think about it. He said he just pushes it to the back of his mind and forgets about it.  It must put him under so much extra pressure, making sure he doesn't confuse where he is, or which one of us he is with at the time.   All the while though, the guilt is building up like a snowball and is going to have to be dealt with at some point when it hits him in the face.