[superdog]

That last statement sums up both my h and my h's father. At no point does the family come before the good guy, people pleasers they are. It's all about gaining favour elsewhere.

Sd
X

[Albatross]

Come on people, You will spot narcissist if your spouses was ones in first several years...

[tristana]

Looking through the wallowers LBS's threads I discovered a few common issues:
1) social anxiety - mine gets migraine, a small things like the prospect of going out for a 40 min walk is a source of huge migraine, not to mention going to theatre, concerts, meeting friends, traveling abroad. Luck of absolute control over things give him migraines. Me walking the dog without a leash gives him a migraine. AND SO ON! And, of course, MLC exacerbated this issue.
2) THE escape and avoid remedy - playing candy crush saga 

[Conniekids]

M-50
H-40
Bd-7/12

My H lives @ home no alienator That I know of. He drinks @ stays out late. We text each other during the day when he gets a break from work. In the beginning he wouldn't call or text back, now he always answers rite back & apologizes if he doesn't ( I don't initiate) We conversate in mornings face to face most weekend days. He's very apologetic but still still sleeps in garage every night. He is very good @ hiding but I know he's still in replay & manages to tell me how he's feeling. He doesn't spend time home on his days off he says that he tries to keep busy to controll thoughts in head that goes a mile a minute. I've read a lot of post that sometimes make me believe that one day he will cheat or leave. Although I know every ones MLC is diffrent & I have no control if he does I'm still sometimes get fearful.

[jos]

Hi all
I've been away from this site for a few months to try and get some perspective on my sitch. Things have gone from bad to worse recently.

Quick recap: BD was April 2011 so I'm 4.5 years into this mess. H had a EA with someone at work for 4 years brought about by him  being made redundant from a job he loved. He was forced to apply for the only job going just to pay the mortgage etc.  and he hates this job; feels trapped and worthless; feels much responsibility; want's to escape. Through my stupidity, he's still in our home (for the sake of the children -  BAD MOVE on my part.  Claims he wants to make it work with us (if given a choice ) but we are not heading in that direction at all.


H claims he broke it off with OW last November-time (they drifted apart since she changed her work 1.5 years before.) Since March this year H has been in a deep depression: staring out the window all the time, no communication between us or with  the kids,  and really negative about everything (so not like who he was). We did have a glimmer of hope a month ago when he had a careers meeting at work which hightlighted his old dreams and ambitions, but now he's back to being depressed again. 

I really need some advice from you all: how do you go about detatching when you live with your MLCer? I find it quite easy when he goes away for weeks at a time, but I seem to have lost the skill recently. I am much happier in myself than at any time in my life, thanks to having recently started a company which is (finally) doing quite well, and has given me some of my old self back). But I am much happier when he's not around. (I don't know if that would change if we were to seperate/?)  I am always stressed and unhappy and don't know how to move forward form it. I GAL, but find his mood/negativity/lack of care and love dispiriting when I return home and I don't know how to just 'be' anymore. 

Any advice on how this can be achieved greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...

Jos
x

[CallanG]

Hi Jos

I just wanted to welcome you back although it is a shame you have to be back if that makes sense . My H is not at home so I cannot really help with your question but I just wanted to pop in and say hello .

Callan

[barbiedoll]

Hey there Jos . I am going to be bluntly honest in my answer to you . Please know this is MY experience only and others ( of course) will have their perspective . Take what is usefull and delete anything that is not . First , WOW ! That is a long long time to live with MLC .  Strong lady! I had my husband drop the bomb in May 2013. ( just typing it , I can feel the anxiety ). He stayed in our home until the end of September 2013 ... and I thru him out . Not for 1 SECOND do I regret that decision, in fact, it is the one and only GREAT move on my part . It still gives me a boost of personal empowerment and taking MY own life into MY own hands. Detaching while living with these men is so extremely difficult.. for me , I needed "super human " pwers I did not have. I was successful in short spurts, kept busy , read a lot , and just let him be who he was at the time but the utter ANXIETY was truly destroying me . I was afraid to come home from work, I was afraid of his silence and terrified when he wanted to talk . I was 40 lbs lighter and living with an extrememely unpredictable stranger . He was not sullen, quietly depressed and just kept to himself...he was high energy, ragefull and crawling out of his own skin in hatred for me .I was slowly dying and still struggle with physical issues related to that stress. So, I was a failure at true detachment .. until he left. Then I was 100 % expert and had zero contact with him. I remember the utter relief and I needed that for ME . It was no easy , trust me , 35 years together , but oddly it is not that hard to kick a "stranger ' out of your house . I also will add, I KNEW in my heart of broken hearts , that there was an affair . He denied it , and I often believed him and just buried the "knowing "... but it was always there . I will not have that in my life . That is my boundary , my personal choice as a mother to 5 daughters .. I will NEVER be able in this lifetime to accept the precence of another women .. I will give away my very life 1st . ( sorry, a bit dramatic.. but .. ). For those that can detach ( truly truly detach ) a standing ovation for you . It is the most difficult way to exist. So, I get an F . For my situation it was escalating . If I was able to detach , it enrages him seemingly and there was no peace . He grabbed my granddaughter in a frustrated moment and he was profoundly aggressive towards my youngest darling daughter . NO. It utterly utterly shocked him, when I told him to pack and get out . I could see the shock and I believe some of the fog started to clear that very second . He was out of the house for a period of 93 days with almost zero contact . He still speaks of the shock and horror of being asked to leave . (huh?) . I guess he thought there was a never ending tolerance for " abuse " ( my opinion ). If it truly is about working on "yourself " in detachment .. the I made the right move for MYSELF . Just my perspective and I truly respect other womens choices , as this is hell. Prays for you !

[Songanddance]

Hi Jos - let me see if I can help here. My MLCer mostly stay at homer 2.5 yrs in( he is a clinger of the highest order and though he has been away with OW during the first 18 months and decided to live on his boat from Dec 2014 - March - he is now back home most evenings and has always been here in the daytime as he works from home. Consequently I have never had a time period longer than 2 weeks away from him)

I'm going to take your quotes apart and address them but the first thing to suggest is that you read RCRs articles all over AGAIN - much of which will really resonate with you now.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/site-map.html

I think you have to understand the stages of MLC before you learn to detach and it feels as though you are not aware of the stages or even type of MLCer he is.

Quick recap: BD was April 2011 so I'm 4.5 years into this mess. H had a EA with someone at work for 4 years brought about by him  being made redundant from a job he loved. He was forced to apply for the only job going just to pay the mortgage etc.  and he hates this job; feels trapped and worthless; feels much responsibility; want's to escape. Through my stupidity, he's still in our home (for the sake of the children -  BAD MOVE on my part.  Claims he wants to make it work with us (if given a choice ) but we are not heading in that direction at all.

It was not your stupidity that he is still in your home. It sounds like he is a classic wallower (see MLC types). Wallowers rarely leave and usually have EAs which can last as long if not longer than PAs. The potential for excitement in an EA is so much more dynamic than the reality of the PA.

I tried to kick my H out - he left for approx a couple of days.He knew I wanted him out but he was adamant he didn't want a divorce!!
  If he says he wants to make it work - he probably does but he is in MLC and action will always take AGES to follow. Yet again read the articles on touch and goes.

H claims he broke it off with OW last November-time (they drifted apart since she changed her work 1.5 years before.) Since March this year H has been in a deep depression: staring out the window all the time, no communication between us or with  the kids,  and really negative about everything (so not like who he was). We did have a glimmer of hope a month ago when he had a careers meeting at work which hightlighted his old dreams and ambitions, but now he's back to being depressed again. 

His depression is real and it is very likely that he is in liminality. This is the phase that all MLCers have to go through. MLC is depression both covert and overt - Yet again read RCRs articles - they cover this so brilliantly.

Depression takes time as does MLC and your H is sorting his own mind out. Leave him to it. That is the start of how you detach.

Barbie's H puts her in a different position as he returned after 8 months begging for a second chance and so Barbie was not given the gift of time. She was right to throw him out but wallowers do not leave.  My H refused and as we were joint owners I couldn't force him under UK law.
You can detach while your MLCer is still at home.

There are several things you can do and one of them is to stop watching your H and analysing everything he is or isn't doing. Having explained the possible stages he may be in - you now have to stop stage watching.

IT IS POSSIBLE TO DETACH whilst the MLCer is at home - you have to focus on you - not your marriage or the vague promise of maybe.
Whilst your H may want it to work - there will be a long time of nothingness. My H said in New Year that he thought it was silly to throw away 28 years of marriage with me and would I be prepared to give it another go. I said yes but there was no point in having a time deadline because I knew that he wouldn't be able to commit as he hadn't faced up to what he had done and was still seeing OW from time to time. Since then he has done nothing but remain in escape and avoid although replay is much less.

So how to detach: -

Decide each day what you and the children are going to do without "asking" your H
Read and re-read RCRs articles
Focus on something for you GAL or go and see friends, picnics, cinema - anything that gets you out of the house for a while either with the children or without.
Read and Re - read the articles.
Understand that he is in his depression and nothing you say or do will make a difference.
Read and re-read the articles
Do not feel obliged to include him in everything you do - he won't and that can be seen as pressure or pursuing.
Give him space and time
Finally behave and do as though he is not coming back - don't play at it - be it.

If you detach you will be able to lift the mood in your house and you will find that your life becomes richer and more purposeful. The longer you dwell on your H - the harder it is to detach.

[elray]

Also dealing with a wallower MLCer.

My tips to detachment...

Find a "third place" -- a place outside of home and work where you feel comfortable -- an important concept often discussed online -- just  a slightly different twist on GAL.  Here's a wiki link...try to get there for an hour or two at least TWICE a week.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

Go on trips without your MLCer.  I've found this incredibly helpful in regnerating my soul.  Some examples I've done: camping by myself, taking my son on a road trip for travel sports and extending the stay for more fun, scuba trips with a local club of enthusiasts, a concert/music festival with my sister.  Some of these options are much more expensive than others -- but I considered the money saved by not having two rents as a "blessing" to be spent on keeping me sane -- that did translate to some short term debt, but its better to be sane that debt free, IMO.  Having these things to look forward to are crucial.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I became the COLD, STOIC one in the relationship.  I stopped talking about my feelings entirely with this broken person I share my house with.  My feelings are too valuable to share with this selfish, wallowing ghost of a woman who used to be my wife and lover.    She will have to earn that trust back.   It may never come back.  I always have time for a superficial conversation of the work day, or the kids school activities, meal planning, etc, BUT I have developed an inner life I share only with a counselor and a group of friends (many from here) who are much more aware of my true self than my wife could possibly be emotionally equipped to handle right now.  She's broken and incapable of offering me any support....stop looking for it.

So sorry to find you back here, but I hope some of this might help you.

[jos]

Thank you to Barbiedoll, Songanddance,  Elray for your useful comments, and CallanG for your words of welcome. It feels good to be supported once again.

Barbiedoll. last year I wished I could have kicked him out. I was ready to do so when he wouldn't give up the OW. But now she is gone. I know he's a very good man stuck in a very bad place and I can see the PAIN in his eyes every time I look at him. He is completely traumatised. He is not without emotion, far from it. It's just that he has trapped them all inside.  I am now really glad I didn't ask him to leave.

Last night he said to me that he thinks he'd reached burnout, and I think he's right. Many of the symptoms are the same as MLC funnily enough; cynicism, depression, lethargy, hopelessness - and caused 'when you're working toward goals that don't resonate with you'. This is completely his situation. He even told me last night that some social connections at work had been severed because of his lack of 'caring' (his words). I:m wondering if he's alluding to OW???

Elray. I do most of the things you advocate. I am always taking the kids out on day trips and taking them on camping weekends etc.and I go away for 4 or 5 days camping alone when H takes the kids to his mums.  I tell H it is so he can get his CV done or get some rest, but really it is because I;ve become self-reliant and and independant, and quite used to spending a lot of time alone. My 'third place' is HS, too, and I've also thrown myself into my work a lot recently.

I stopped talking about my feelings entirely Yes, I've learnt that showing feelings is definately a bad thing and so keep them to myself as much as possible now. It's funny really, but I have always been such an emotional person so I;m learning to self-soothe for the first time.   

It sounds like your W (and YOU) is having a much worse time of MLC than I am. Cudos to you for being able to live in the same house as her while you know she is emotionally with another man. That takes some strength of character (and a deep understanding of her problems) Your sitch has always resonated with me since I first found HS. Keep your focus on YOU and those kids of yours. Your W will surely come around one day?

Songanddance: As you say, I do feel H is in (or approaching) liminality. He is completely depressed and angst-ridden and in so much more (apparent) emotional pain than he has been in since BD. It's awful to have to live with so much pain and be able to do nothing.

Depression takes time as does MLC and your H is sorting his own mind out. Leave him to it. That is the start of how you detach.

I do (finally) feel that he is finally sorting out his head. A couple of weeks ago H had brief movement in that direction:  he became his old self for 24 hours after having seen a careers councellor at work who obviously gave him hope and direction about his career and future job prospects. It was so nice to see. She has got H to start updating his CV , which he is doing (in between severe bouts of depression)  and I sincerely hope he can get on to the right career track. That is his only way out, I fear.

Thanks for the reminder of RCR's articles. They are very good, and I have recently got back into re-reading them after a long time of just reading the forum. Once this depression took hold of H I started to re-reading them and was reminded of liminality. It's good to know there IS a progression, but it can only be seen in hindsight.

It seems I am doing a lot of what's needed to detatch but I was a lot better at it last year. H's deep depression and the changes in him it has brought  has thrown me a little. But I now feel reminded  and more hopeful. Newbies? TRUST the Process - use the gift of time and Focus on you. I love this, Songanddance, and thanks for the great reminder.

Jos x