[Bailmor]

moment, this is a very informative piece of writing that gave a great insight into the MLC's thoughts and actions.  I appreciate this account to try and understand exactly what my MLCER W is going through.  Excellent information!  Can't wait for Part 2.

[Ready2Transform]

Thank you so much for posting this.  It's helping me very much accept some parts of this that I was trying to avoid.  Definitely food for thought. 

[stayed]

Uk, I have to respond to your belief that the MLCer doesn't realize the pain and chaos they are creating around their actions and behaviour.  My h definitely knew his family were spiraling downward.  He knew the kids were trying to make sense of the senselessness of it all and that I was literally gutted. HE KNEW IT!

Now, maybe not ALL MLCer's are as aware as my h was.  I look at Mitzpah's husband and he just merrily when on his way.  Reached out and scooped his children right along with him.  The only time he shows any awareness that this is PAINFUL, is when he deals with Mitzpah.  For example, he went quietly to her room to tell her he was divorcing her.  Yet, so far he has not.

I think Mitzpah h, honestly doesn't think it is causing his children any problems whatsoever.  His children literally bend over backwards to be with their father.  In fact, her children seem to despair if they don't get to be with their father and as often as possible.  So to him, he doesn't see it causing anybody any suffering whatsoever, other then Mitzpah.  He accepts no blame about any of the negative things that his children are doing, ie. cutting, not treating gf's very nice, rude to their mother... etc. etc. But he sure is aware of the pain and suffering it is causing Mitzpah. 

I know they are depressed.  Anybody with eyes can see that.  Yes it is tragic, but even this man's wife, HAD MOVED ON when he finally found his way out of his crisis. 

Hugs Stayed

[OldPilot]

Uk, I have to respond to your belief that the MLCer doesn't realize the pain and chaos they are creating around their actions and behaviour.  My h definitely knew his family were spiraling downward.  He knew the kids were trying to make sense of the senselessness of it all and that I was literally gutted. HE KNEW IT!

Now, maybe not ALL MLCer's are as aware as my h was.  I look at Mitzpah's husband and he just merrily when on his way.  Reached out and scooped his children right along with him.  The only time he shows any awareness that this is PAINFUL, is when he deals with Mitzpah.  For example, he went quietly to her room to tell her he was divorcing her.  Yet, so far he has not.

I think Mitzpah h, honestly doesn't think it is causing his children any problems whatsoever.  His children literally bend over backwards to be with their father.  In fact, her children seem to despair if they don't get to be with their father and as often as possible.  So to him, he doesn't see it causing anybody any suffering whatsoever, other then Mitzpah.  He accepts no blame about any of the negative things that his children are doing, ie. cutting, not treating gf's very nice, rude to their mother... etc. etc. But he sure is aware of the pain and suffering it is causing Mitzpah. 

I know they are depressed.  Anybody with eyes can see that.  Yes it is tragic, but even this man's wife, HAD MOVED ON when he finally found his way out of his crisis. 

Hugs Stayed

I was hoping Stayed would comment about this.

I think the real point of all this is BOUNDARIES.

If the LBS has NO BOUNDARIES, which unfortunately most LBS's here fit that category then
we have enabled their depression.
I believe that Stayed is correct and that they do know that they are causing turmoil but they have been enabled for years and dont know that they should stop.

In this way we can end up prolonging the crisis.

DETACH, LET GO and have BOUNDARIES are the steps we need to take.

[stayed]

I agree completely OLD Pilot! 

DETACH, LET GO and have BOUNDARIES are the steps we need to take.

We all need the T-shirt and poster, to remind ourselves!

Hugs Stayed

[Mitzpah]

Now, maybe not ALL MLCer's are as aware as my h was.  I look at Mitzpah's husband and he just merrily when on his way.  Reached out and scooped his children right along with him.  The only time he shows any awareness that this is PAINFUL, is when he deals with Mitzpah.  For example, he went quietly to her room to tell her he was divorcing her.  Yet, so far he has not.

I think Mitzpah h, honestly doesn't think it is causing his children any problems whatsoever.  His children literally bend over backwards to be with their father.  In fact, her children seem to despair if they don't get to be with their father and as often as possible.  So to him, he doesn't see it causing anybody any suffering whatsoever, other then Mitzpah.  He accepts no blame about any of the negative things that his children are doing, ie. cutting, not treating gf's very nice, rude to their mother... etc. etc. But he sure is aware of the pain and suffering it is causing Mitzpah. 

I think that is a fair assessment, but what does it have to do with boundaries (in my particular case)?

I don't pursue, I have practically no contact with my h. unless initiated by him, he has recently gone back to on and off mode.

I am detached and have let go... H. has NOTHING to do with me at all. He contacts me when he needs something and that is it. I send him happy birthday/happy christmas, easter, new year messages as I would a distant relative. We share expenses related to the kids on occasion but it is pure business.

The boundaries are his and I do not overstep them.

I just find myself dealing with the fallout with my kids.

Just curious...

[living with Hope]

Excellent question you have asked there Mitzpah.  I am very interested to see the dialogue that comes from it.

My stitch is different but I do belive my husband is not aware of the pain that he is/has caused or the extent of it with the children.  Mine too seem to only want time with him and deny him very little if at all nothing. 
The boundaries have been set but more on my husband's end than anything and I am not crossing them anymore. So I am intrigued....

[Zendog]

I'm attaching on as well. I want to see how it ends.

My XW sounds very much like Mitzpahs. Although I'll add any boundary I've established has been met with some stern testing. I view it as a control issue. I will say that I do believe my MLCer knows full well what they did but just doesn't acknowledge it's impact on the kids. I think they are able to ignore the damage because they think ultimately everyone will e better in the end. That it's just temporary pain but they are so clearly right that they think it will work out.

The irony is that it does. With everyone except for them because of how long it takes them to figure out they are responsible for their own happiness. They keep waiting for it to be bestowed upon them until they ultimately get it. At least I hope they do.

[Hmmm]

Interesting discussion guys. I admit I've been an enabler as I feel so bad for him being depressed.

My only boundary has been that he comes when he says he will. He was testing me to the extreme on this one and I was a doormat. As soon as I stated that I needed to trust he would come, he came at exactly the right time.

I appreciate this more than I can say.

I'm not sure what other boundaries to set though
X

[stayed]

Zendog... you said it all for me.  I truly believe they know what they are doing.  I also agree that they think and believe ... "it is for the best"!  I know for a fact, that they are right... accept as you said... for everybody but them.  We all learn, grow and bloom.  They wallow in misery until they figure out...THEY are responsible for their own happiness.

We figure that out quickly, right at the beginning of this.  They... poor, lost darlings, figure out way towards the end, if at all, when it is too late. Mind you, if they are able to FORGIVE themselves, they are able to find someone new, not some sordid OW, who will settle for "whatever that is"... but a real, loving person.  They can have a brand new, good life, but I believe they will always feel some regret, for the life they let go. 

Hugs Stayed