[Anjae]

MLC is permeated with depression however I do not think all MLCer are that dead inside that they are incapable of deliberately plot hurtful things. Normal depressed people lack the energy that MLC, at least high energy MLC, requires. MLCer are perfectly capable of leaving a marriage, get a lawyer, file for divorce, get a new house, live with OW/OM, have lots of energy activities and so on. Normal depressed people can barely get out of bed.

When Mr J had normal depression, as a result of physical exhaustion, a think that has also happened to be, he had no energy at all. He did not leave, he did not do any damages. MLC is a different sort of depression. MLCers tend to be driven by hate and hate is a powerful energy.

Since, like Neo said, they do not manage (or at least for a while they don't) to separate the LBS from themselves, they see us has being them and some of them do all they can to hurt us, since we are them and they hate themselves.

This said, someone who many years down the road is still trying to hurt the LBS, still hasn't managed to see that we are separate people, is still living on fight or flight mode is a not only a very damaged, but also a very dangerous person. Like Neo says, they are like a hurt scared animal. Hurt scared animals are extremely dangerous and trust no one.

If anything the guilt should refrain them from doing cruel things. But it seems to have the opposite effect. Since they may feel guilty but carry on doing hurtful things, they only keep adding more guilt. It is a vicious, long lasting circle.

Where I disagree is on the affection and on the hope. There is no shortage of MLCers capable of showing and being affectionate with OW/OM, OW/OM children, with several OW/OM for those who have more than one, with new friends, etc. They can even go to lengths of affection and generosity that they did not had towards the LBS. And MLCers have hope. At least mine has. For he and OW, for his new life, etc.

Not really, Neo. As the LBS learns the game, years go by and in several cases nothing changes. Let alone for the better. Just see how many of us have spouses in crisis for more than 5 years, some who, even after so long, are still using manipulative angry tactics, often legal ones. If only it was so simple as the LBS learning the game and things changing for the better.

I will say, too, that we know them better than anyone on the planet.  And during MLC, they don't like that at all.

Do we? Or did we knew before the crisis hit and took a deep turn? At least I have long stop knowing Mr J at all. Even in MLC he may know me better than I know him. I have changed but not the way he did.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

My xw's bff has herpes and copd.  She has been divorced three times.  Her second husband persuaded her into the swinging lifestyle which resulted in them both contracting herpes.  Her second husband also molested both daughters and gave them herpes.  Now bff has three husbands that hate her and she has a love/hate relationship with both daughters because they feel like she turned a blind eye to their abuse.  This is a woman filled with self-hate and rage underneath her "friendly" exterior.  My xw went to her depressed (empty) and became a tool for bff to act out her secret rage.  I became the target.  Misery loves company so bff slowly pulled xw away from me and the kids.  It was easy since my xw was so empty inside.  Yet at the same time, bff would have had no influence over xw without xw already wanting to escape in the first place.

When my W was depressed she turned to her sister whose life was already a train wreck. This sister hasn't been happy with her husband for a long time but she's never had the courage to do anything about it. So when my W told her she wasn't happy and she didn't know why this sister told her that if she wasn't happy in her marriage she had a right to find someone else who would make her happy. And I've known this woman and thought I had a good relationship with her for over 36 years. What a dumb f*ck. Excuse me, but she really pisses me off!!! 

Did I mention that I'm not happy with W's sister? I think I'm ready to go out to the garage now and go another round with the heavy bag.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Normal depressed people can barely get out of bed.

I can certainly confirm this.

[xyzcf]

Normal depressed people can barely get out of bed.

I heard a final report concerning the cause of death of Robin Williams. He had no alcohol or drugs in his body. The conclusion was that he was suffering from severe depression and took his own life because of that.

Robin Williams suffered from depression for years and years and he certainly was very active in his life. I don't think that we can generalize at all. My husband uses work to stop him from having to face his depression. He works continuously and there is no doubt that he is severely depressed.

[Anjae]

In all truthfulness, the thing is high energy MLC is much more similar to bipolar, with its manic highs and deep ends, that to normal (unipolar) depression.

So, the high energy MLCer has the same boost of energy a bipolar person has in a manic peak. Then, of course, it will go down, but the high energy MLCer jumps from one thing that provides a peak to another.

But, as with addiction, with time more and more is necessary to achieve the same result. That will drain the MLCer. Even so, high energy MLCers can carry on for years on end. From stories read on the board, it seems that, in some cases, they can carry on for a decade on more.

Depending of the souce, Robin Williams is said to be bipolar of suffering from depression. Depressed people can get out of bed if they are not under a severe depressive episode or if they are medicated. None of us knows how Williams was when off screen and if he spend time curled up in bed or not.

There is no shortage of people who suffer from depression that have very active periods. However they always have very low ones. You will have no trouble finding a list of artists that suffered from depression who manage to create, but there will also be no difficulty finding their lows (and even their suicides).

But I do know how Mr J and mine depressions, that were a consequence of physical exhaustion was. I also know how several other normal depressed people are when on a depressive episode. No energy. And by no energy it includes no physical energy.

I've always said that the MLCers are depressed, but MLC depression is not like  normal depression. If it was doctors/therapists and also people around the MLCer, would have no trouble recognise that the MLCer is depressed. However we know how hard it is for professionals to identify MLC.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

Depressed people can get out of bed if they are not under a severe depressive episode or if they are medicated.

MLCers self-medicate. That's the whole purpose of the affair, drinking, sports cars, motorcycles, drugs, and other addictive and thrill-seeking behaviors. They modify the brain chemistry and make the depression manageable. For a while ......... Then they stop working.

[blackice]

so when they start sleeping a lot and tired all the time, is that a sign of something other than the depression? cause mine is tired all the time now and is sleeping a lot.

[hopeful1]

Mine is deliberately trying to hurt me so i hate him and don't want anything to do with him. it makes it easier for him so he can move on.

[Anjae]

I know, MyBrainIsBroken, straight from the horse’s mouth = Mr J. He had, in the past, said he was depressed and that he could not stop because if he did he would have to think about everything he had done and he could not face it. He said that some 7 or so years ago. Imagine the amount of more stuff he cannot think about that he has been accumulating since. 

Black, if your husband just wants to sleep he is probably quite depressed. And tired. It can be a mix of depression and exhaustion/burnout. Let him sleep. Right now it is hard to tell if your husband’s depression is the one from Liminality or some sort of depression some MLCer have on the middle of their journey. Time will tell.

Yes, Hopeful, hurting us to see if we give up so that it is easier for the MLCer to move on is sadly common. 

[toomanytearss]

I truly believe my h deliberately wanted to hurt me.  The look on his face when he said and did terrible things was a smirk.  He was for sure enjoying it.  H also claims to not remember and swears he would never say such things to me.  I call bs on that. 

I believe they are great actors and whatever eases their guilt is what they go with.  So yeah they sound so convincing when playing the poor me card.  Oh dear I don't remember saying or doing that.  But he can sure remember everything that's going on with his freaky friends and he certainly remembered all his illicit meet ups with ow but conveniently forgets the crap he threw at me and d15?  No, I think not.

I think they hurt and they want us to hurt also.  Now of course that isn't normal thinking, I'm not saying that they are firing on all cylinders, but they know what they are doing.  I think they just don't understand why.

I mean my h stopped by tonight to have a cup of coffee on his way to the motel and he went to get a donut.  Wanted to know who had been here because there were too many donuts missing for just me and d15 to have eaten them.  He can remember how many donuts I have in my house the paranoid ass, but he has memory loss regarding his behavior?  LOL  Still not buying it.