[Thundarr]

STP, that.....was awesome.

I would like to add a couple things to it as well.

11.  EDUCATION LEVEL.  I have intentionally zeroed in on women with advanced degrees or who seemed of higher intelligence, mostly because of how my ex used to have such a problem with my having higher degrees and her only finally finishing her associates the year before BD.  Now, I'm finding that women with advanced degrees (master, APRN, Pharma degrees etc) are every bit as wild and sexually outgoing as women who have only high school educations.

12.  NO TABOOS.  When I was a teen dating for the last time before meeting XW I would NEVER have brought up any kind of sexual fetish or kinky topics before being sexually involved.  Now.....there seem to be no taboos about discussing BDSM or other fetishisms and what someone is into.  In my case, it has been the woman who brings it up each and every time, even on the first date!

[Dji76]

STP "Their are millions of potential partners out there. Incredible, beautiful, fun, exciting, intelligent people to meet and be with. When we selected our mates at a younger age we were new to the world and with time and experience have learned a lot. Sure I wished to be at the same table with my EX when our kids got married as a whole and happy unit, but thats an illusion and the reality is no one is incapable of being replaced. Life is movement. Move on."

^^^ Truth

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

STP--For me, I'm 18 years in recovery so the drinking and bar scene is a no. I am up front and honest about it from the beginning because if someone really needs to drink then we wouldn't be a good match. A date can be a social drinker but they need to be able to take it or leave it. So, that weeds out a bunch of guys, which actually helps. I am 47 but look, act, feel much younger and am attractive. I got 60 emails first time I went on the dating site. One out of all of them was worth dating. I guess I'm picky and would rather not date than settle. As far as sex goes, sounds like your wife was a bit of a prude. I have a friend that refuses to do certain things with her husband and I think that is a bad idea. Of course there should be limits in each person's comfort level, but having sex as a mechanical thing with no adventure will kill even the best marriages.

My marriage was awful the past few years primarily because my H told me he didn't like sex with me as I was too good and crazy in bed! It intimidated him. He had erectile dysfunction but made it out to be my problem. I believed those lies and accepted not being touched for years. I am so happy now that I know it was all his stupid crap. The one night stand I had was like, "Wow!" It feels so wonderful to feel confident and free, that my sexual personality is perfectly fine. My fear with having sex with dates is they'll get hooked on me and I'm not capable of anything past casual right now.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I'm still following along. The discussion is interesting but it continues to motivate me to stand. So far I haven't been tempted to change my mind but I'm certainly getting an education. I can see I wouldn't do well dating. I'm afraid I fall into the prude/country bumpkin categories but good luck to those of you who are busy dating. I hope it works out well for you.

[hawk]

Glad to hear that your confidence is high MWBR. I too agree the time needed varies on how much distance one needs before dating again. Over the last six months I've been formulating a list of what I've learned being out in the pool again. I was going to post this in my thread but I think enough of my followers are in this one.

MY 10 A-HA THOUGHTS IN THE DATING WORLD

1. CRAFT BEER IS WHERE IT'S AT. Of the nine women I've seen during the last six months, most, if not all have gravitated towards craft beer (if not wine). The fun names and small breweries are what's in. It is the drink of choice by the lot.

2. SITTING AT THE BAR. In nearly every case the women I've seen have wanted to sit at the bar, even if eating food. The taller the chair the better. Sitting across from one another at a table or booth seems out and undesirable.

3. WEEKDAY DATES ARE FINE. The expression "living for the weekend" seems to be a thing of the past, as the modern women I've seen, are perfectly available to date any day of the week. They want fun and freedom from a commitment.

4. THAT FIRST DATE KISS. No... there is no single peck goodnight. Of the nine I've seen, four ended with make-out sessions. For the other five there was nothing more than a hug and they did not see a second date. The other four continued on with regularity.

5. WHEN TO GO ALL THE WAY? For two it was the tenth date. For the other two, the third date. I see the difference being who's chasing who. The more aggressive women wanted all out sex sooner than I did. Most are no longer able to have children.

6. "OH GOD!" Women really do say this during sex. My ex was quiet. Not so for these vocal unattached women. The look they all get in their eyes when their necks are kissed is dreamy. I try to not get intimidated by the screaming.

7. BEAUTIES ARE EVERYWHERE. This one especially flipped my stance off of standing (along with the ongoing presence of OM). To think your spouse is irreplaceable is foolish. Their are millions of potential partners out there. Incredible, beautiful, fun, exciting, intelligent people to meet and be with. When we selected our mates at a younger age we were new to the world and with time and experience have learned a lot. Sure I wished to be at the same table with my EX when our kids got married as a whole and happy unit, but thats an illusion and the reality is no one is incapable of being replaced. Life is movement. Move on.

8. THEY COME IN ALL DIFFERENT SIZES AND COLORS. While married it was very well noted that I loved tall chesty brunettes with brown eyes. The women I've dated fall into a myriad of different categories and none match that description.  I understand the difference between chest and cup size better now. Petite blondes with blue eyes prevailI They are all good, if you open up your mind to it.

9. THEY TALK. I don't know if it because they are single or what but these modern women talk. A lot. Never a shortage of things for them to say, which is refreshing for an introvert like me to listen to.

10. MY EX WAS SMART (AND ANGRY!). Of all the wonderful women I have encountered, none come even close to matching the intellectual brains of my ex. She was smart, wise and knowledgable on everything. And angry. I've never encountered the likes of anger like that from anyone since.

Just my thoughts. No offense intended.

Lucky you st.

Although l just went on date sites for a little while so maybe that's why but can't say l found much of that.

What l did find was lots of very fkd up women out there.
Didn't meet one l was even attracted to or wanted to sleep with,
or wanted to start anything with . Not one . Yet even though most of them had been single for yrs and yrs , 10yrs was very common and l could see that wasn't gonna change anytime soon for sure with most, yet their expectations were still surreal.
And most of them l felt like saying wtf are you even trying to date for anyway , your still that fkd up you shouldn't even be here.

The whole thing was just disheartening, very time consuming, overload and a total let down tbh.

Think l need RL stuff bc in RL on the other hand l did meet a few and wasted time with no one . You can feel it and see it in seconds in RL .
But that is hard though if your not getting out much or things to get involved with a pretty limited in your area.
But l think that's the way to go for me.
A lot of other people actually seem to meet worthwhile people through date sites though.
In better areas maybe.

[beyondblessed]

I got to thinking what Elegance said. Though it's been 4 months since BD, it's been 2 years of this MLC crap! H withheld sex, love, affection, even holding hands for nearly 2 years. So, I honestly don't look at it as 4 months. It's been 2 freaking years of MLC torture. My life was hell. I felt unlovable, undesirable, unattractive, you name it I felt it because of his treatment of me. For the first time in years I feel confident, attractive, smart, sexy, desirable, funny, basically an awesome catch!

I was in that very same boat.....and began my current relationship just shy of 5 months post BD and we've been together a little over 5 months now.  Not going to lie, it's been challenging at times because of this whole sordid mess of MLC, but I'll be damned if I was going to be dismissed, disrespected, lied to, cheated on, and dumped like garbage only to sit on my @$$ crying and waiting for my now xh to come to his senses...mostly because I'm not sure he has any sense anymore.  Sorry, sweetheart....you knew when you left, there was no coming back, and I wasted no time making that point crystal clear.

MWBR.....absolutely nothing wrong with getting life back on track.  Follow your heart, but most definitely take your brain with you and keep your eyes open.  The odds of them ever waking up and owning what they've done and doing the hard work of making amends for those things is not very common, and even if it happens, from listening to those who've done it, it sounds as though many question why and whether it's worth it.  Sorry if that sounds bleak, but that's just what I've gathered from all of this.

[Roma]

MWBR,

Glad I could inspire you to heal and learn more about MLC. You REALLY shouldn't take your H's actions personally because they have nothing to do with you. Once you learn more about male depression/MLC depression, you will see their brain chemistry makes them see the person closest to them as THE PROBLEM  and want to end the pain (which we all know is not true)  so that is why they divorce or distance themselves from their significant other.

I realize their are others who are dating, yet as a newbie, heal yourself first before anything, whether it be a new R or reconciliation w/ your H.
Some of the 'standers' who posted are like 5 years in!

I personally feel 'dating' shouldn't be an option is this forum, yet it's not my site or decision to make. It makes others especially newbies, what to jump out there and just find someone new, instead of healing or gaining understanding of what MLC is and not to take the MLCers actions personally.

I don't feel coffee is a bad thing, yet I wonder,would you do that if your H wasn't temporarily mentally ill? I don't know, just something to think about.

Do what's best for you, not what's the best revenge to get your H back with

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

I disagree this forum should only be for covenant standers. I think it should be a safe place for anyone dealing with a MLCer and anyone choosing to stand or not. There are so few forums and resources out there for LBS regarding MLC. I look at this forum as a healing place for dealing with the trauma and betrayal of MLC, not a place to orchestrate standing. It is the trauma and betrayal for which I am healing, and very little for the grieving of my H. Technically, my H left 2 years ago. Even before that there were problems I don't think he will ever change. I realize now that I don't want him. He is beyond flawed, self-centered, and just plain horrible. I don't look at this as a mental illness. He had a choice and a recovery program that could have helped him. He chose to separate from his program, God, and me. I guess I'm not really standing. I just don't know what 5 years could hold.

Anyone NOT dating at 1, 2, 5 years post-BD or post-MLC is basically a covenant stander. So, yes, if the philosophy is to wait and not date, you are a covenant stander. And, though, many say they aren't "waiting", at the end of the day it is most certainly waiting. Reconciliation is always at the back of the mind. Like I said, the person who had BD after 4 years of marriage (me) cannot be compared to the LBS married for 20 or 30 years. This is my 2nd divorce. I have experience knowing how to heal (just not from crazy MLC) and have been in several other 2-4 year relationships. I think that makes a huge difference.

We can't pigeon-hole people into only one cookie cutter and covenant standing isn't necessary or realistic for some circumstances. I think as a woman I feel empowered in letting go, moving on, and dating. I'm no dummy and have a very strong 12 step program.

[STP]

Well said MWBR.
For me a way to detach and distance myself was to treat the marriage or MLCer as a former job. I've had plenty of jobs and with the leaving of each one, I don't think of returning. If I'm fired, unwanted and pushed out I certainly don't try and go back there. Change can be good. With each new job (date) comes experiences, knowledge and growth. Compare that to dating and you can understand my current view. Certainly job (and marriage) security is preferred but for my situation standing is not in the cards.

I'm now hearing her affair could go on for 2 years. The world has too much fun to offer to sit and wait for an uncertain future.

[Dji76]

Seems there would be a lot fewer active members if only covenant standers were permitted to post. Confirmation bias is human nature but it is best to be exposed to a variety of view points. My dating experiences have been all over the map and I have come to believe that we will find someone that mirrors us in emotional development. I highly suggest asking yourself "would I date me" and not getting serious about dating until you can answer "yes" without hesitation.