This thread is just so WRONG!
I dont believe that reading all of this stuff will help anyone...even if it is claimed to be amusing...it is SICK!
In July 2005 Sweetheart came over to visit—this was during the first leave. I had recently purchased a small digital recorder because he was saying things that were mixed—like what he’d give me in a settlement—and I wanted to record such things as well as his inconsistencies in case I was able to claim he was not competent to have filed for divorce.
I recorded his 90 minute visit and then spent the next 3-4 hours transcribing it. Seriously, 3-4 hours. Then I posted the entire conversation—I’ve still got it. I found it interesting, but it was over-focusing! The people at DB blasted me for it—claims of privacy etc. So when it comes to posting conversations—word-for-word…I’ve got you beat!
I still find the conversation to have great information, but people were right—I was a newbie at that time; it was ~3.5 months after Bomb Drop—I was focusing too much on Sweetheart and the MLC. That same evening I promised my mentor I would not do it again, but that I would use what I had.
So do I think this thread is just wrong, that reading this stuff has no benefit and that it is sick?
No, I don’t. Why…? Because of these explanations.
I was simply trying to demonstrate that the level of depth in the affair relationship is very superficial, which may help some people who are trying to understand how their long term partner with whom a deep relationship had been formed over years could believe that they are in love with someone else because they understand each other's laundry issues (sorry facetious). It does demonstrate the crisis element in all of this. And actually, in some ways it is funny. This thread is not meant to be funny. It is merely for information, and like StandandDeliver, kikki and honour said, it is a way of showing us all, LBS what really goes between and MCLer and other person. It allow us to see how shallow, superficial and fantasy land it is. Also, how troubled and confused the MCLer is.
AnneJ’s initial post was informational and gave insight into the relationship dynamics of the MLCer and alienator.
I'm with AnneJ on this one.... if you don't want to read her husband and OW's correspondence, then DON'T.... that way you won't be invading their PRIVACY!!
That’s not fair; a valid topic can go off course. It’s not fair to tell people they should just not read a certain topic—this topic is interesting, but it is a risky topic in that it is one of those where we can easily fall off course from information into unhealthy focus and worse demonization where we may insult the MLCer and alienator and laugh at them scornfully.
Its a comedy! With lots of high drama!
I get it, MLCers and their alienators are often idiots—so are teenagers. It’s not that we discourage laughing, but laughing scornfully is inappropriate. And promoting it more so. This comment did not hit my radar as bothersome, but I think this and others is what tipped other posters over to disapproving of this topic.
Because really, was Bomb Drop funny to you? High Drama, sure, but I doubt any of you found it funny-ha-ha. If I were to create a television series based on an MLC situation I’d prefer it to be an hour long drama or a comedy like M*A*S*H was a comedy—Alan Alda has said that they never considered it a comedy. The show used humor to highlight tragedy, but it never made fun of the tragedy; it was more a call to action.
We all find aspects of this amusing—though not in a pleasurable way and so when we find something amusing we need to balance that with the pain within out amusement rather than making it into a tabloid meant for sentationalist entrtainment.
The information that is here for us is just that, information. Tools to help us gain an understanding into what is going on with our spouses.
But it’s not just information when we add our commentary and opinions to it. Added commentary can add up to just information when it is kept informational. But when we make it salacious by laughing at them with judgement and scorn we take it beyond what is beneficial information, we are then lowering ourselves to their level.
The main website where others cannot add comments is just information. The Blog articles are just information which is expanded beyond information in the comments section and here at the forum. When we take the information into a community and discuss it, we create something more than just information.
So please, maybe this thread is not helpful, but then neither is the holier than thou, quasi legal argument against it...
That’s not fair. Everyone has a right to their opinion and this is yours, but it is stated rudely by using sensational terms to insult the opinions of those who feel differently. Holier than though? Come on, if you want to argue for or against something, your argument will be stronger when you keep it clean; if you think the argument for the other side is holier than thou offer evidence to support the statement; otherwise it’s just mudslinging.
I'm personally sick and tired of the "Don't talk about your spouse, it's not allowed..." police on this site.... I sure can't talk about him anywhere else!! It helps to remind me I'm NOT alone when I get to INDULGE in some TALK ABOUT MY SPOUSE and the impact his MLC has on my family and my life.... stop telling me I can't talk about him! I focus on ME every hour I'm not on here, which is more and more...
Look at what I am choosing to do with my life. I was writing some of my earliest articles while in the throes of Sweetheart’s MLC. Some were Self-Focus articles, but a lot were about MLC and Standing Actions—I wrote the first draft of the stages and the Progress articles in 2006 and 2007.
A lot of people were grateful for the information. But some—usually those who had been either my peers or the OldTimers criticized me because I was focusing too much on Sweetheart, and MLC.
So I am always a bit cautious when advising people regarding the direction of their focus. I found the topic interesting personally, but others did not see it that way; to many I was just making an excuse for my focus.
No, when our spouses post themselves and other person, and exchange public love declarations in FB they are not being private at all. They even use their real names and everything. They are also not being private when they go around town together, when they bring other person to meet family and friends or when they go and meet other person family and friends.
Just for the record, I don't consider this an acceptable reason to post their private correspondence.
It’s not. Since when does someone else’s sins erase the same actions in you. To say they are doing it so you can…really? With that reasoning why aren’t you out there doing someone else like your spouse? Adultery too strong for you, well instead join the Bungeeless Bridge Jumpers Association; if one jumps they all jump.
There is a difference between what may be legal and what may be right, appropriate or ethical.
When Sweetheart left the alieantor for the first time he brought her letters and cards with him. She immediately faked a pregnancy and continued to the cards and letters through Septmeber 2005. I have the a stack of cards and a stack of letters and I’ve read them all. Since that time I have considered typing them up for publication—with commentary to highlight emotional balckmail, Borderline traits, affair down dymanics… I have not done it yet for many of the reasons given regarding privacy here. But it still remains something I may do someday. My purpose would not be to be salacious—that was not AnneJ’s purpose either. It would be to give a more detached or even clinical perspective. I think that this sort of information can be helpful. I also think it can cause overfocus—depending on the presentation and the individual writing and reading it.
So I could publish it with excellent commentary and for some it would enable unhealthy focus on the MLCer, the alienator, the affair or MLC in general. But it would help some—perhaps many more than it would enable toward unhealthy focus.
The alienator named the fake baby and wrote an entire letter motivated to entice him back to her using the baby as the attraction as well as duty. The letters began less than a week after their relationship went physical and she was telling him how scared she was when he was away, that she wanted to hold onto him until she died—that was in the first 4 lines.
I just skimmed the letters again—it had been a few years. To a healthy person they look scary. They are filled with burning, this is more than love, our baby, you are almost my husband, breaking heart, I am hanging on…and a stock from your wife card on his birthday as well as a card within the first month that was a baby card where she told him she wanted to give him a baby. To me they are the clear ravings of desperation, but to someone in MLC who lacks self-esteem these are golden words—someone wants them, loves them, will do anything for them; that produces an attractive force.
But out culture eats this stuff up.
And tell me now,
How do I live without you?
I want to know,
How do I breathe without you?
If you ever go,
How do I ever, ever survive,
How do I, how do I, oh, how do I live?
That song is sick. And what about the Stalker’s Anthem I’ll Be Watching You...?
I received the letters soon after they were written—October 2005. I read them at that time and filed them away and received a final letter written in February 2006 when he returned home again in Spring 2006. I did not get them by snooping and though I don’t think he really knew what was going on, I told Sweetheart I had them and that I would be keeping them—or destroying them if I chose…but they were mine to keep or destroy. He probably heard me, but failed to process it and forgot an hour later, but I’ve mentioned them since. But another reason I have not typed them up for articles is that I am concerned it would bother him—so much so that I’m afraid to ask him! I don’t think it’s the privacy that would bother him, but the embarassment and he may feel I was invading her privacy and that it would be mean.
So I don’t have a problem with publishing correspondence specifically. But it needs to be without sensationalism—so any follow-up discussion needs strong guidance since sensationalism often comes from the comments rather than the original content. The person posting should not be a newbie and the letters should not have been discovered by snooping. This sort of stuff causes newbies to cycle. AnneJ is at a place where she can handle it. And anyone who posts such correspondences needs to think fist about what they want; are you Standing? If so, will this harm your Stand…what will your MLCer think in a few years after he has returned home and discovers it…he may never discover it, but if this is something that would upset him because it would be shameful or embarrassing, consider what is more important: your Stand or providing the information?
Now in saying that, I am neither promoting, encouraging or discouraging this thread or others in this topic. I just want each of you to be aware of the sensitivity and risk of focus certain topics have. Does this topic promote the Unconditionals? Can it with guidance? If the topic steers off course and becomes demeaning, insulting and demonizes anyone—MLCers, alienators or anyone else it becomes inappropriate.
Laughing at someone as though you might find your teenager amusing is one thing, but you are probably laughing with nostalgia at how you were back then, laughing scornfully is a form of demeaning and there is a fine line.