Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: limitless on August 10, 2012, 04:24:57 PM
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To all,
The previous thread had grown to 17 pages.
Here is RCR's original post, from the previous thread, on the purpose and use of this discussion topic.
Discuss away!
previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2220.0
limitless
The Mentor Team has been discussing things we can do to improve the Mentor Program. We are kicking a few ideas around the brainstorm and this thread is one of the best ideas. I don't know how it will evolve and so this will be a test for the first little bit.
Post links to your threads or to information on another thread if they are relevant. If something goes off tangent, we may split those posts away into a Topic thread--nothing wrong with that, it's how some topics get started!
Edit: I think it may also be a good idea if you are responding to Start your post with the Reply # and Display Name from the post to which you are responding. I suggest you include the Display Name because we might come through and clean up unnecessary posts from time-to-tim and the Reply# will then change. If you are posting a new question, say that at the beginning.
So your opening will liook like one of these two things:
Replay# X, Kikki
OR
New Question
It will give an opportunity for you to interact with someone other than your assigned mentor and to have quick questions asked--maybe like an FAQ. It may also be a good way to let a mentor know that you need attention. The mentors also liked it because they can pop-in quickly and look here to see if any matters are pressing.
I would also like to come up with a better system to match mentors to mentees. Now, though I sometimes notice a fit, I usually go down the list and see who has the fewest mentees and assign that way--not very personal. :P So this may or may not help newbies get to know each mentor's style--we will see.
Either way, I'm excited about it! 8) ;D
So ask away...
I may edit this introduction as we tinker with this thread direction.
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Hey Limitless,
Chime in here, you have kids my girls ages.
FH
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Hi FH,
My d, 22 on Monday, understands what I am doing--i.e. standing. She sees that her father is not himself; she sees him do & say weird things. She understands that it is not a situation like an ordinary break-up & she frequently observes those in her age group. The best thing she has said to me is that I have grown & dealt with this mess & he 'hasn't even begun'.
Whatever happens I am setting her the example that you don't just throw away people or give up when it is difficult. She is probably the only one in the family who doesn't think I am a doormat. She knows me.
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FH,
I believe you are asking me to chime in on the conversation from the previous thread - regarding what we (Standers) are showing to our kids by continuing to Stand, when we are mistreated/unloved by the MLCer?
Well, you know my situation and yours are very different. You have an MLCer who has never left home (physically, at least) - mine has been gone for 2 years and has filed for D.
At first I was very vocal of my Stand to anyone who would listen. I'm sure they all got sick of hearing it...(honestly, I got sick of hearing it). Things have changed...I've calmed down and he filed. To the world (including my kids) I am just a soon to be (maybe???) divorced woman who is trying to move forward with my life. I keep my Stand to myself, except for my LBS friends here.
So, I guess I believe that I am showing my kids that, regardless of what happens in life, we need to stand up, be strong, and go on with our lives. I am also showing my kids that you don't just "give-up" on your longterm relationship - you give it the time and space needed for it to "work out" - one way or the other. And, you don't immediately immerse yourself into a new relationship.
I think it is much more difficult (in a different way) for those with MLCers at home and the things you show/teach your kids.
limitless
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FH,
I also have older kids (20, 19 and 17). My h. has also left home and lives with OW. There is no doubt that he doesn't love me.
My kids know I stand. They don't necessarily agree with me and they probably think I am a little mad.
I don't know exactly what they think, however I remember my MIL who 'stood' without really knowing what she was doing out of personal conviction that marriage was forever. My FIL never came back - he died six years after leaving home, not before having a child with OW. I remember seeing my h. a teenager at the time, revile his father as a drunkard, and my MIL slapped him, telling him never to speak of his father in that manner again - she never spoke ill of her husband. My h. and his siblings had immense respect for their mother who practically reinvented herself, a veritable phoenix!
I hope my children will see that one does not throw away a marriage, return evil for evil, insult for insult, but we must pronounce blessings on those who disagree with us.
I do not talk about my stand to them (or to anyone else except my mother and you here) any more. But they know that I continue to stand - I still wear my wedding ring and there are pictures of us as a couple and family all over the house, his side of our closet is empty (ish! he still has clothes here ::)).
As L. says, I may be divorced soon, he doesn't seem to be in a hurry, but still talks about it. I carry on living and working. I hope I am being the stable one - I know I am part of the furniture!! He is the 'interesting' one to them!
So, I guess I am 'strange' but I am ok with that. I do not feel like a doormat.
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I have a ? . Dont know if you can help or not but any input may help me to understand. My h has been gone now for 5.5yrs last yr i found out about ow. Well i used to ask when are you coming home , always got im working on it . Well after finding out about ow i stopped asking about him coming home ,and he just lashed out at me that if i come home there want be anyone living with us ever again. well i never ask him to come home . and he was talking about our son. also i ask him about our son wherer he could come and he said we will talk about it when the time was right, so iask him again and he said he could come home .my dauther even said what is wrong with dad he is acting differant like nice...but its like he has slipped back in and there was one time he said he didnt want to be with anyone , what could this mean / and also he went to dr. because he didnt have any energy thank all
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You have not given us much information to go on so I am going to try and give you advice based upon what you have stated. I think your h has started to cycle back to the family by trying to make contacxt with your children. However, he still seems confused. Does he want your son to be back in his life or just his daughter? That part confused me. His lack of energy could be his energy level dropping for replay. Of course, I don't know you h and I am not a doctor. I don't want to build hope or expectations. Continue to be detached and focus on your kids. As stated before, this is his crisis and you have to let him do it all on his own.
((((hugs))))
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Just wrote this on my thread...but I am getting little traffic there and would really like some feedback from those who have "been around the blocK" so I have copied and pasted. Thanks!!!!
Had a bit of mim-monster today. Husband and I had a text exchange in which he mentioned taking care of a chore" this week." I asked him if that meant that he were going to be in town and if he were planning to stay in guest room He replied, "he thought so," and that he would let me know when he got his schedule for certain.
Well, this didn't set well with me. I don't mind when he asks to come to stay, but this was all too casual and I wouldn't have even known that it was in the works if I hadn't pursued with the questions.
So, I sent a text telling him I would appreciate a heads up when he planned on staying and mentioned that I am sure that he would like the same if I were headed down to his area and wanted to stay.
Fireworks! If it is that big of a deal," he wrote," and you don't want me to stay, just say so! I am not going to beg to stay, I can find somewhere else. As far as you coming to my mom's to stay, it isn't your house so it s not the same thing."
Even after reassuring him that I wold like to see him (which I would) he remained indignant about me trying to put him in my shoes and mentioning how it would feel to him if I came into into his space casually. He again referred to me making "a big deal out of it," said, "have a great day," and cut me off.
I can't tell if this is just plain old entitled behavior ( and the complete inability to see how absurd it is that he left me, won't have physical contact with me and feels like I should always be open) or if his anger was a response to feeling rejected.
Seems to me he doesn't want to be put in the position to have to ask for anything. This is one of the changes I have seen in him. Through most of our marriage, he was the person to apologize easily, see his part in things. Humility completely eludes him now and he has a hard time ever accepting responsibility for any faux pas . He seems to need to always be right. Then, if he doesn't like what is being said...he just goes to stonewalling. Other than that (ha-ha) he is charming and delightful! I feel like I am dealing with a 2 year old. Any feedback about what this is about? How to cope with it??
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Would you explain yourself to a two year old? You did fine. First of all, he chose to move out and live you by yourself. Now, just like a teenager that wants to come and stay while you do his laundry.
He wants to come and stay as a guest, then he behaves like a guest and gives you advanced warning. He wants to behave like a spouse then he can come and go as he pleases. As a guest, the advance notice allows you to buy food, make sure the home is clean, and gives you a sense of security by knowing when he will come. It has nothing to do with your wanting him to be in the home or not.
This is a boundary and a necessary boundary.
Don't let his tantrum throw you off. Regardless of the outcome, he needs to show you respect and coming and going at a whim is not respectful in the least.
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Thank you Ready,
My inclination is to try to fix it and make it all better as I don't like him to be mad at me. Through most of our marriage he has always been unconditionally accepting and it was shocking the first few times he spewed So, I guess I am learning to live with his anger (and not being perfect in his eyes) and he is learning to live with my boundaries. A growth process for both of us! I will see it in this positive light. thanks a million for your reply, my friend.
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Hi sdgisawt,
I am going to move your question over to your thread and answer there ok?
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Oh boy oh boy do I need a mentor now!...OW has come out, and now I realize that I am in an environment riddled with people who know her...what to do?...I feel like she is getting daily reports on me. Makes me want to run and hide. Ideas? Suggestions? I am on the subscriber board.
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Oh boy oh boy do I need a mentor now!...OW has come out, and now I realize that I am in an environment riddled with people who know her...what to do?...I feel like she is getting daily reports on me. Makes me want to run and hide. Ideas? Suggestions? I am on the subscriber board.
Answered on her thread.
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Not sure if I should post here or on my thread so I'll start here. I received an email last week which was intended for my exH. It was a company he receives legal books from as he is in that field and they had an old email address......mine. So, I didn't think anything about it.......I just forwarded it to him. I didn't receive a response back....none needed.
So, yesterday I received another email meant for him. This one seems more deliberate on my exh's part. I'll explain. It was from one of those credit score places. It addressed him by name (but sent to my email) and "thanked him for his recent request". In the body of the email it also had his user id listed and said he would have access to look for 30 days using his password he created. Okay, so I forwarded the email after 10:00 p.m. last night. Just with a simple little message basically explaining that I was forwarding it to him and thought it was "odd" that I received it. I ended with saying "hope everything is going well". Well, this morning I had an email back from him which was sent at 5:15 a.m. He simply replied, "It's my credit score. I'm so screwed".
First, this had to be intentional, right? I mean we have been separated now for nearly 3 years and divorced almost 2 years. He had to request this report in order to receive it, right? So, why use my email address?
Also, any thoughts on how to reply or even if I should? I think he is looking for some sort of comforting words or show of support. I'm not sure.
Thanks to you all, and May God Bless each and everyone of you.
(((HUGS)))
I have responded on your thread. limitless
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Hiya,
I have a question about types I'd like your opinions on. My H has been the classic low energy wallower, emotional affair (to my knowledge) has had some energy replay actitivites in the beginning, but spent the majority of the past 2 out of 3 years watching DVD's and house programmes as an escape. He only left home last week after renting himself a house, which i practically had to force him to go live in.
Since going he's acting out with dying the hair and wearing loads of earrings. Have seen some monster from him too.
Is it true they don't change their type eg;- wallower with some attempts at highs and the rebellious hair etc is just another attempt?
I can't understand the whole lying on the couch for months staring out of windows for months, then al of a sudden the hair and earrings and the rental.
I know that we are not to analyse where they are, but this one baffles me a bit. End of stage acting out as last ditch attempt? He is 99percent taking the blame for all the mess here and knows the "demons" are coming.
Just a bit confused.
SD
x
I have "responded" on your thread.....limitless
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My question is my H and I really have had no R talks he seemed to want to come back in the beginning and I blamed it all on his drinking. It seems now he is just getting further and further away , I made the mistake of mentioning D in the beginning not knowing about MLC . He seems to be happy with the present state... living with OW ,drinking and doing whatever he pleases. I am NC... living limbo... I don't know what to do so I do nothing... he hasn't initiated anything .... but I think he thinks I am sitting on the shelf waiting for him...or he's waiting for the year to be up in Nov to file...
Do I just sit tight and do nothing ? I have never told him of my stand .
I have responded on your thread.....limitless
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I am at a new place today than I have been throughout this process. I just feel like I have run out of steam...tired...depressed.
My H moved out of the house when his (already broken off) affair was revealed in the beginning of December. He has been living with his parents until he broke his arm last month and moved back into my son's room. His mothers is about 120 miles away and our house is close to his doctors appointment, etc. He didn't say but I think this only temporary while he is on disability/recovering from surgery.
I think I am depressed by H choice to refuse to accept responsibility for his behavior and to blame it on me. This has been apparent when he has monstered on me several times in the last few weeks. He has bullied me into being afraid to say anything about anything. He "doesn't want to work on anything or hash it out..or hear my feelings." He wants me to be smiley and cheerful and supportive. But, he doesn't want me. The situation feel increasingly like the relationship that I believed could work through anything, is riddled with dysfunction, ad perhaps headed in the direction as another divorce statistic.
Since BD I have approached my life with energy and enthusiasm (plus or minus those early days when I wasn't sleeping or eating) I have been at the gym or with friends or at my women's group, book club, etc.,many nights of the week. I have also read about MLC, educated myself, prayed, sought counseling, coaching, and talked to you guys. I have seen this as an opportunity for growth and embraced it.
I am really not feeling that way today. Today for the first time in our 34 year relationship my H and I drove about 40 miles together without saying anything (because I didn't hold up the conversation). I do not feel hopeful that we can work ...I feel apathetic.
I feel so disappointed in how H has run away from his wrongdoing and made it all about me. I feel disappointed in the man he has become. I feel like I am losing respect for him and wondering if he is even somebody I want in my life. I am questioning what we had.
Is this a bad sign? Am I at another phase of this crazy process or am I moving away from standing? I don't like the feel of this drained energy. Feedback please!!
I have responded on your thread.....limitless
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My husband moved out. He said he needed to get himself together. I really don't know how to react when he calls
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I answered on your thread on the main board
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Hi Brokenhearted here, haven't posted much, have a vanisher. I was doing good about giving him time and space. NC.
2 years since bomb drop, litle over a year, knowing about ow. I often see the ow in the local paper for being a keynote speaker at some local event. Monday I open the paper and see her with what looks like an engagement ring on her finger. I am shocked,hurt, like getting BD all over again.
Calm down some, but stil feeeling guttted. Then find out his niece was married a couple of weeks ago. Went on facebook to see photos of his niece (who has been part of my life for 17 years), feeling sad not to be considered part of that family I loved anymore. With the photos I see she has posted "2nd big wedding!!!!) I still naive, am wondering who else got married. Then I remember the picture of ow with ring. It can't be...I admit to driving to where he was living...there is no car...his belongings, furniture are all pretty much moved out...where is he...at her house, moved in I assume...Nt an engagement ring, a wedding ring.
I don't know how I feel, so hurt, sobad, that I am numb. I believe he has married the ow
from the info on his niece's website.
Heer is who she is, a 48 year old woman, highly successful in her career and held in high regard for her community involvement. Never married, has lived with her 70 year old mother. My partner, 60 years old, this woman was one of his students years ago. He is now married to the ow, 13 years younger than him, now living as a married couple with the 70 year old mother, closer in age to him, than her daughter. (His mother passed away several years ago, devasted him).
I can't believe the spead of this, we were together 17 years, stood together through the death of his mother, both his sisters, his three heart surgeries, his father's car accident and subsiquent brain damage, my brother's two by passses, my dad's broken neck and hip and congestive hear failure. so much sadnesss, it was hard to have energy, to have fun. Now he has found fun with the ow.
How is it possible with all the years we had, the sadness we had been through, so much life we had been through, how do you just leave like I and my family who loved him so much are dirt, we don't exist to him anymore. Then he meets the ow, his soulmate who has just happened to live around the corner all these years,(!) and in less than a year, about a year he is in love with this woman enough to propose, to marry her. She knows nothing but lies he has probably told her, nothingof his family, what we have been through together.
How does this happen so fast to walk away from 17 years, and be in love with your soulmate and married in a year!!!!
I have to not be strong and be honest for a minute...I feel like a failure, unable to make this man happy, that I was sooo bad that I drove him running to this ow and a new life with her. Plus the most painful fact, he did not marry me, 17 years, we had each been married before,no formal wedding but were totally committed to each other I thought. Totally committed. Yet in less than a year he can sudenly make the legal committment to a almost stanger if you compare what we have been through together and the short time they have known each other. What was the rush? I feel humiliated, like people pity me , like poor brokenhearted, all those years together, no formal committment, but wham, he found true love and could commit to ow for life in just months.
I don't know what to do. For him to make this committment he must be so in love...it is shocking to me and honestly I feel devasted.
I feel like our past must have been a lie, we had great moments, but moments, arguments I regret now. Times I know I didn't appreciate the good man I believed he was.
He is married, never even cared enough to let me know. I am gone from his mind and heart.
He must be so in love and happy. Guess it is really over...
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Hi BH,
I know you posted on Ask the mentor but I had to answer [it's late here on the west coast & I think the whole world is asleep ???]. I am very sorry you had another BD, what number 3?
Go back to square one & take very, very good care of yourself. Do whatever it takes to feel better & you know, how you feel right now won't last long. Been there, done that.
As to his illusory happiness, hah! Don't you believe it! Just wait & see. No fool like an old fool.
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Brokenhearted,
I am sorry you are going through this.
I am not as worried as you are. If she is 48 years old and has never been married I doubt it will last long.
Women who have never shared their life with a man rarely adapt well to marriage. They are not used to compromise, they are used to having things their own way, even in the little stuff. Their houses are arranged with every item in an exact place, and everything done in an exact way. Having a man around at first is thrilling, but after the sheen wears off, they find that their belongings are moved, that the items in the kitchen havent been put away right etc and they become harpies.
Hang in there and keep busy doing things. Keep yourself distracted.
Good luck
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With the photos I see she has posted "2nd big wedding!!!!) I still naive, am wondering who else got married. Then I remember the picture of ow with ring. It can't be...I admit to driving to where he was living...there is no car...his belongings, furniture are all pretty much moved out...where is he...at her house, moved in I assume...Nt an engagement ring, a wedding ring.
{{{hugs}}} brokenhearted. I want to point out that a lot of the information you're inferring. The niece may be referring to a friend or wedding on her new family's side, too, from what I'm reading. If OW is a public figure, an announcement would probably have been in the newspaper about their wedding, or maybe even their engagement.
Either way, though, none of it matters in MLC. It's all STILL just a bandaid, trying to constantly up the ante to make the hurt go away. Your love was not a lie, your life MATTERED - STILL matters. You are grieving right now, and that is healthy and normal - neither of which describes your H. You may not have a piece of paper, but your bond was the significant one of your lives. When they are in crisis, every move they make is destined for failure. Unhealthy brains cannot make healthy choices. But this time is for you, and NO MATTER WHAT - you are going to be okay. You are going to have joy. All of this will someday be framed so differently than it is right now. I know that is hard to believe, but it WILL happen.
Love to you, friend. Try not to focus on him, them, the family, any of that. It will resolve with time. Right now your life is about you and your healing. That is where you will find logic, answers, and peace. There is no sense that can be made from MLC. But there is within you.
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Thank you all for your wisdom and support. It does feel like the first BD, like I can't breath. Found out more info. He is moved into her house, just moved into a new life and married. He is moving what is left of his house to hers today or this weekend. It is hard to grasp, even with all my reading here.
I guess it is over. I read til quite late last night and if I am reading correctly, mariage is a whole new ballgame with the MLCer. I think I read that it stops progress and the MLCer can be stuck there forever at this point. Wanted to check to see if I was reading this correctly that marriage seems to rule out any chance of reconnection as know I would be the ow!
Just there was a reason I kept my name "heartbroken."
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I think I read that it stops progress and the MLCer can be stuck there forever at this point. Wanted to check to see if I was reading this correctly that marriage seems to rule out any chance of reconnection as know I would be the ow!
No that is not true.
It makes more destruction and more difficulty in reconnection.
Read Don't Give Up, his wife has divorced him married an OM and he is still standing.
That does not mean waiting though.
You must get on living your life.
We can not tell you what your boundaries are, if he has crossed them to the point that you would not remarry, then tht is your choice.
However what I think you may find is that if you were to remarry anyone that had already been married then you would be an OW.
Really that is just FOOD for thought.
I would just worry about you right now.
You are no where near ready to be in any relationship right now, IMHO.
Him destroying everything is just part of the script.
Let him go, for you are right that now you wouldn't want him the way he is.
Hope this helps.
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I will find you the link but that when the affair partners marry, the divorce rate is 80%. Also, many feel compelled to do things. Your stand is not about him but about you and your healing capability. When you are done, you will know it and you will leave your marriage. It is your choice and will always be your choice.
It is something to think about and use it to empower your choices. It is what you can accept and deal with. That is what you need to know and understand at all times.
(((((hugs)))) and more (((((hugs))))
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Thank you my friends for your support. I am humbled and grateful for all the kind and caring words. Two years down the road from BD, one would think I would have been prepared for this. I don't know that there is a way to be prepared. Though we are told not to have expectations, I believe we all carry hope in our hearts and this is what sustains us.
I would be interested in reading the statistics. I realize at the start of any relationship all is fun, new and shiny. I realize this changes as life settles in. But I am having a very hard time believing it will change for my partner. He now has the woman who sees no faults only goodness in him, and I am sure giddy over her good fortune of meeting and now keeping him, getting him to committ to her. He also has the built in mother he so misses that comes with the new wife and new home.
His new home is adorned and lit with candles in each window, such a welcoming place if your were just driving by. A beautiful new home, to come home to, glistening and sparkling and waiting for him.
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So sorry to hear your story but my story is almost the same. My husband isn't married yet but i feel that it may happen. 26 years together and after 14 years we married i think i got a good 8 years out of that and found out he was cheating. I fell apart. I thought we were so happy and in love. It was a total surprise that he was cheating. we did everything together hung out all the time, smuggling in the den on the weekends and then i find out he has been seeing OW for a few years before it got serious. All the begging and pleading crying and nothing would make him stop seeing her. he finally left in Sept and got an apartment and is still seeing her. I feel like a piece of $h!te on the bottom of his shoe, I know just how you feel. the marriage is just to much. I wish u luck in healing but its definitely time for the both of us to move on. take care.. I wish you well
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Brokenhearted, I have moved these posts over to your thread.
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Can you please tell me more about what might be going on with my H visits. One LBS said they are "touch and goes." Can you tell me more about this? He came home again and stayed last night in my son's room. I think maybe he just wants to escape his parents house and watch Lost on the computer. (I cannot help but smile at how appropriate it is that he is glued to a program called "Lost!") But it is a long drive for him.
He did some house repairs and put sprinklers in the garden I have been working on. He id friendly, but the purpose of his visit doesn't seem to be to visit with me, and he turned down my extra concert ticket. He said he will be back on Halloween to pass out candy. Is this a good thing??What is he doing??? Is this a way to keep from feeling guilty?
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http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_touch-and-goes-and-reconnection.html
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Thank you, Thank you!! Very, very helpful!Whenever I see the links, I read these articles, but how do I find them on the site?
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Go to main page Midlife crisis marriage advocate above; then the menu is on the left in blue The Heros spouse articles section
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You can click on the purple link at the top of the page and then use the site map.
Also their are links in my signature for the newbies thread which also has a link for the site map
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Well, that opens up a whole new world. Illuminating!! Thank you CJ and OP. Wish I would have understood how to access those articles six months ago! I've been hiking through the forest without a compass. OP, excellent idea making these easier to access for those just joining the site (and those techno-challenged individuals such as myself!) Thanks again!
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My husband came over too. We had dinner and watched a movie. He seemed really comfortable and wanted to spend the night and have sex but i told him that i didn't feel comfortable having sex with him because i know that he's still seeing the woman that he cheated on me with. Even though i think things have slowed down alto. i never let on that i knew. He got really mad and left and started sa ing that its best that i didn't because it really wouldn't change things. He was really mad and left. I feel like i should. Have but i know that i did the right thing.
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Question: should I let my h visit for a couple of hours at Christmas?
Background. H has lived with ow & her d17 for a year now. He rarely contacts our d22. He usually wants to come here one day on weekend, spends a few hours doing odd jobs then returns to ow house. He is very concerned about the practical things [well pump, woodstove, vehicles].
I no longer have him here when my d visits from out of town. It's MY time & I don't want to share her--it's tense anyway for her & me with him 'here' but not 'here'.
Anyway he wants to see d Christmas Day but do I facilitate this? He would have to come here [no restaurants open!] He looked kind of lost when I mentioned to him that we were very busy & preferred not to do Christmas with him on the day.
My d22 is saying no b/c her & her partner already have 2 visits to do [isn't divorce wonderful] plus me plus dinner at aunt's.
I don't want to think strategy--but neither do I want to push him away. I'm tempted to say to him what he said to my d, 2 days after he left: 'You have your own life now' but am afraid that would be drawing a line in the sand. :o ??? ??? ???
A classic case of action or inaction having consequences.
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My d22 is saying no b/c her & her partner already have 2 visits to do [isn't divorce wonderful] plus me plus dinner at aunt's.
I would not be involved, your D22 is old enough to take care of her own relationship with her father.
Stay out of the way!
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I don't want to think strategy--but neither do I want to push him away.
Okay so now answer above. ;D
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I don't want to think strategy--but neither do I want to push him away.
Okay so now answer above. ;D
Don't push him away but don't pull him either.
You said you must facilitate this to happen.
That is pursuit I think.
Can't you just be STILL?
Did he ask YOU to come over?
I would do whatever your daughter wants.
Let her decide one way or the other.
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Can't you just be STILL?
Do I sense a little impatience? :o ;D ;D ;D
Did he ask YOU to come over?
Okay now I'm laughing--ok, ok, I get it. ;D ;D ;D
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And thanks OP.
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Each year we go through the same dilemma about the holidays. I have been in conversation with LearningIamok about the same issue.
What I wonder is why they wish to join us at all on these days? They may have rewritten history about everything else in our married life, but there are certain times when they are drawn to us, to memories perhaps of better times.
Is it fair? No, not all. But regardless of our marital status...we are still "family".
So many MLCers seem to break the ties with their children as well. Why do they do that? What are they hiding from? If they love their new lives so much, then share their enthusiasm and excitement with their kids. But they do not.
Our children are then torn between being supportive to the "good parent who has been done wrong by" and the "bad parent who caused all this heartbreak". No child should have to be placed in that situation regardless of their age.
Do we believe them to be in a crisis? If this was a physiological disorder, say they were in hospital or a long term care facility..what would we do with them over the holidays? Would we shut them out? Is it any different?
If we choose (for it is our choice now) to shut them totally out of our life..how will they ever feel that it is even possible to return?
I base this certainly not on any "success" that I have had in my own stitch but actually from my desire to treat those who deserve it the least with love, my belief in MLC and RCR's comments and discussions that I had with Stayed. Our MLCers continue to watch us. They see us growing and living and enjoying life....we see them looking older, angry, frustrated, withdrawn and broken.
Again, it must be what is the most comfortable for the LBSer and family when looking at these special times. By shutting the door on them, are we punishing them, are they not worthy of any of our love? Difficult questions and no real easy answers.
I don't see this as pursuit. I am also living with the situation where our daughter doesn't live close to either of us. I am in a better place now to understand that a visit with him and our daughter together at Christmas doesn't change anything about the end of our marriage. In some ways, MLC has taught me to live differently than I might once had done, I know what pain feels like and I think, that when they actually do start feeling pain (for I don't think they feel much in MLC) the depth of that pain is going to be intense. For those who reached out to me over and over again to comfort me, I am grateful. It is my turn to walk my talk and do the same...especially to those I would least like to.
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I started to quote each paragraph & comment; then I realized I agreed with all your points & have asked myself all those questions. That was an incredibly articulate & thoughtful response. I think I am still very confused as to what is 'fixing' & what is just kindness in all aspects of this 'process'. I think I understand that as long as he is in replay, I am paving the way & not much else. But then paving the way is trying to affect him...
The process is frustrating. ;D ;D
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Great post XYZCF I don't think it is pursuit either. I agree with all your points, and we all must do what we feel right. One thing I am learning is how to be me without feeling dumb for being honest, kind, compassionate or other things. I did tell H I would be up there for Thanksgiving and we were going to have family pictures and he was welcome to have some with the boys too. We shall see if he still wants to by the end of November. It is who I am though so we must all be who we are but better and happy.
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I've got a question I'd like some insight on. SO we are at month 8 (almost). We've certainly had monster spew and re-writing history. All of what I have experienced is pretty much "by the book". I know there's OW and I know it's ridiculous. We have kids 50/50. It seems that when H has the kids, he tends to get more clear in his head (I am pretty sure he doesn't see OW with kids around since they are S13, D11, and S8 and he does NOT want anyone to know about affair - or think that anyone really does...hilarious really). But, once they are with me he is NC and if there is contact, distant and short comments. Really seems to make sense.
So, due to some changes in our schedules, he has had the kids for a decent stretch of time (5 days). Within the last two weeks there have been A LOT of different things come up with the kids (behaviors at school, First Reconciliation meeting for S8, soccer games, volleyball games, parent/teacher conferences) so we have had to interact quite a bit. Some has been good, some has been strained. I was able to get a couple of truth darts in one of the strained times. After that discussion with the truth darts, we have had a lot more "good" conversations. So much that sometimes that makes it harder (HATE IT that I think that way!). When we get along I get so excited that we are getting along and I just think - see, we can do this - and figure he is seeing the same thing....which then I react that way and get QUICKLY reminded that those are JUST MY thoughts....not his.
But....these last 5 days...it's like he's not stopping the conversing about the kids. I got 6 texts this morning (unusual amount for when we were happily married!) about them. Then I've gotten 3 more emails. They tend to cover one or two common issues, but really....I am NOT used to hearing so much from him. I am ABSOLUTELY working to not have expectations....to be neutral... What's causing this behavior from him? More cycling? Surely once I have them these next couple of days he'll go back to being NC or short answers....right???
I guess I should watch what I wish for....I KNOW he's got to take the time to get through this MLC....and 8 months is just a tip of the iceburg...I can't wish for him to be back now...he'd still be cycling and it would be awful all over again...right?
I think I know what I need to do - keep my expectations in check, let him go back to OW...let her sink her skanky hands into him again and do what she does best - telling him he can only do it with her and creating all of that doubt. Then I will remain strong, let him go through the MLC process and a year from now I can think that he MIGHT be coming out of the tunnel....
Is that a good plan????
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I think I know what I need to do - keep my expectations in check, let him go back to OW...let her sink her skanky hands into him again and do what she does best - telling him he can only do it with her and creating all of that doubt. Then I will remain strong, let him go through the MLC process and a year from now I can think that he MIGHT be coming out of the tunnel....
Is that a good plan????
Almost. But hold off on even thinking he MIGHT be coming out of the tunnel in a year. Could it happen, sure, but not lkely. Yeah, he'll b a year closer, but thinking like that is a bit too close to an expectation.
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Why does this take so long?
I get that it's a process and it's probably lifelong crap that she is dealing with all at once.
but why does it have to take years?
Does it ever NOT take that long?
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Why does this take so long?
I get that it's a process and it's probably lifelong crap that she is dealing with all at once.
but why does it have to take years?
Does it ever NOT take that long?
Did you ever see 12 year old kids become adult - FAST?
Same reasoning.
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Just wanted to chime in about the holidays.
I myself have decided not to go to my h's family's houses for the Holidays. I have not spoken to his mother since May and his step mother since July. I saw his father when my h had surgery and it was uncomfortable. The only time I would talk to them is if I called.
So, I have decided to have the holidays at home. I explained my reasoning to my h and told him whatever he decided to do was up to him. He has decided to go to his mothers house for Thanksgiving and Christmas is still up in the air. He did say that he understood.
My girls are going to stay with me, by their choice. But neither of them have decided about Christmas. I did tell him that wheather he did this intentionally or unintentionally, he has eliminated me from his family, he has done this.
If this is what my future looks like then he needs to see the consequences for his decisions. This is the only boundry that I have ever set. One Im going to follow through with. We are the white elephant in the room and it is uncomfortable for everyone, especially me and my girls. :'( :'( :'(
Just my 0.02
FH
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Beautiful thought provoking post xyzcf. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
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I have a question. I live on the East Coast and just went through Hurricane Sandy. My H came to our house to stay with me and D18 D16 from Sunday night until our power came back on Wednesday. He came and slept with me in our bed and was very affectionate and cuddled. When he was leaving (after the power came back) I said thank you for staying with us and I really enjoyed cuddling. his response was "It didn't suck" I don't know if this is the begginning of some reconnection or I'm just reading into it. How do I proceed from here? He has been in constant contact since the day he moved out. Has not monstered for about 6 months. It has been almost 2 years since BD
Answering on your thread - OldPilot
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Not sure where else to post for some legal advice for Nettieboop. Her H has cashed in his 401K and needs advice how to proceed from here. Anyone have anyone in mind that could help her? I am at a loss, since Condo Carl is content for us to live in Limbo and no legal action has been taken.
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I was wondering if someone more familiar with the forum/site could point me to some bit of discussion I'm pretty sure I read here, but now I can't seem to find it. I think it was something about wondering whether a spouse's affair was an MLC affair or a non-MLC affair....but that it doesn't really matter, because the steps to healing was the same.
Basically, looking for some clarity on what the differences may be ... and why it doesn't matter. Or something like that.
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Another question...or need for assure or guidance. So things have been OK with H. Went to high school visit day (big Catholic school community here) on Sunday with H and both sons. Great day - seemed almost like we were together again. No monstering, nothing uncomfortable, easy conversation. Went our separate ways. Ran into him at Target that evening. Ended up running into him later in the store and he was talking to OW friend! Awkward! But, after making him introduce me to her and then later telling him how hard it was and I hope she's worth it (kinda wish I wouldn't have said one or the other of those...), I kept going back to how things had been. Forwarded an email from school, easy chat time with him about that. Didn't interact for a day or two.
So, I had to finally reply back to his initial settlement agreement (which SUCKED by the way). I finally adapted the attitude of - well, if this is what he thinks he wants, then he needs to see what it is going to take to get divorced. I did NOT make the return offer over the top at all. VERY fair. Thought about A LOT of things (a lot he hadn't even CONSIDERED because I know he is in a fog and just wants this to be OVER so he can have his affair without guilt). So he's going to get it today. My attorney was finalizing with me to send it and had gotten a question back from H's attorney that H would like to remove furniture from the "marital home" while I am out of town with the kids at Thanksgiving. WHAT?!?! So, expectations were "re-grounded" that my hopes that he was maybe wanting to slow things down were an illusion (or only hopes on my part!). Yes, I KNOW IT IS EARLY!!!! But him taking furniture just seems like part of the agreement is going to be implemented....and it seems like then that means we will sign the agreement and be divorced. THAT HURTS SO BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
So I need some help and assurance. I am going to a new counselor on Saturday morning. I need help in detaching and GALing because if this is going to take another year or two, I have GOT to figure out how to move on with my life and still have him in it because of the kids. I HAVE to figure out how to keep my expectations in check when we have GREAT interactions about the kids and we are SO cooperative about them....but he still doesn't want me. That's where my hurt is....and then I get into feeling rejected and cast aside.
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Finding Jules, I have copied this onto your thread and answered you there.
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I was wondering if someone more familiar with the forum/site could point me to some bit of discussion I'm pretty sure I read here, but now I can't seem to find it. I think it was something about wondering whether a spouse's affair was an MLC affair or a non-MLC affair....but that it doesn't really matter, because the steps to healing was the same.
Basically, looking for some clarity on what the differences may be ... and why it doesn't matter. Or something like that.
I know we've had a few topics or posts on that, but I am not sure how to find them if you haven't--I'm no quite sure it had its own topic thread, but maybe.
But did anyone else point you to this? I think this is a great topic and I should write on it for a blog post.
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I was wondering if someone more familiar with the forum/site could point me to some bit of discussion I'm pretty sure I read here, but now I can't seem to find it. I think it was something about wondering whether a spouse's affair was an MLC affair or a non-MLC affair....but that it doesn't really matter, because the steps to healing was the same.
Basically, looking for some clarity on what the differences may be ... and why it doesn't matter. Or something like that.
I know we've had a few topics or posts on that, but I am not sure how to find them if you haven't--I'm no quite sure it had its own topic thread, but maybe.
But did anyone else point you to this? I think this is a great topic and I should write on it for a blog post.
Here is one that I found quickly it is archived and I could move it out to the main board if you want.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1658.0
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But did anyone else point you to this? I think this is a great topic and I should write on it for a blog post.
I'm pretty sure I stumbled on it while reading the various threads/articles here, but I didn't bookmark it and wasn't sure if I was remembering correctly or just couldn't find it. I'd love to read a blog post on it, though! My personal interest would be what if my H's affair isn't due to MLC... will I be shooting myself in the foot by trusting the MLC process (when it isn't actually there).
OldPilot, thanks! Lots to read :) Just one quick question: what's "WAS" or "AWS"?
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LittleDragonfly,
"WAS" stands for "Walk Away Spouse". Not sure about AWS.
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My personal interest would be what if my H's affair isn't due to MLC... will I be shooting myself in the foot by trusting the MLC process (when it isn't actually there).
You would not do anything differently.
If he comes back it would be a shorter process.
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I'm new to this community but thoroughly appreciating the wisdom and support here.
May I toss out a question...?
It has been 20 months since BD. H has been "with" OW since around time of BD...has been living with her for almost 8 months. No communication except rare contact regarding our kids. He has never wavered this entire time that he is D.O.N.E done. My question: If he is done....why does he make it impossible for me to move forward? He will not settle ANY legal issues...will NOT divide marital assets...and MOST frustrating is that I had a great chance to move away to be closer to family and he won't let D15 go EVEN THOUGH HE RARELY SEES HER ANYWAY.
I have responded on your thread.
limitless
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Because he is not done, done. If everything was so great, then why hasn't he moved forward? Because he is in replay and while in replay, he is moving and living in the past trying to "fix" things that he feels he should have done the first time around. Unfortunately, he can't do it because once done the path, the road closes behind you.
Yet, despite all things, the MLCer wants to keep you and the family right where he/she left them. That is why they drag their feet. In fact, I would be reason to say that most men divorce the LBSer at the insistence of OW. Women MLCer seem to divorce quick because they see the marriage as an obstacle. That is my opinion, because we have men MLCer who file quickly and we have female MLCers who stay and drag out the progress for years and years.
Read the articles and keep posting. (((((hugs)))))
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I have a question. How do you mirror when he does nothing. We eat together, during that time I initiate conversation so that we dont just sit there.
At this point just sitting there would be just fine with me. Most of the time he is in his truck or on the computer. I tire of this.
FH
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FH
You don't have to mirror him all the time and there will be times when you are together when this can happen. For instance wait for him to intiate the conversation. The silence irritates us but for them it is time out. When you accept that silence is acceptable and not a form of punishment then you are able to let it be and the silence becomes a stillness and not an ittitation.
When their depression is deepening the silence is a reflection of that. At this time time means nothing to them either so your hour will be a matter of minutes to him. At these times they often just sit and stare.
Infact sometimes silence can become your friend to as initiating the conversation all the time can and does make us feel uncomfortable.
xx
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JA,
Just one more question, please. When I dont initiate conversation, I know that he thinks this is me being mean. Not talking to him (sad but true), is something that I would do when I was mad at him. When I dont initiate conversation, he ALWAYS asks me whats wrong.
FH
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JA,
Just one more question, please. When I dont initiate conversation, I know that he thinks this is me being mean. Not talking to him (sad but true), is something that I would do when I was mad at him. When I dont initiate conversation, he ALWAYS asks me whats wrong.
FH
But you're not being mean - so he needs to emotional mature to understand that. It is not your responsibility to control how he feels about something. If he wants conversation, he can start some! :) If you want some, it is also your right, but not your burden if you don't. That's my take, as I think you should mitigate out as much discomfort for yourself through this as possible.
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FH
There is a difference between that mean 'I'm sulking and not speaking to you' than the still calm silence that I mention. Your demeanor will tell him that this is an ok silence.
I was also accused of being mean etc and what that does is heighten our awareness of ourselves to the point that sometimes it beecomes an unreasonable pressure to put it right. The outcome of that is we converse at all costs to prove we have changed. Let your intuition guide you. It will be difficult at first as you will still feel the need to fill the silence.
xx
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Ready and JA,
Thank you, I think I can do this, and not seem like its a punishment. ::) ::) ::)
FH
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I miss my h so much- some days I wake up thinking he will come home after work. He has been so cruel and hateful but I would be willing to forgive if we went thru counseling.
My h is a vanisher so I don't know anything about what is happening with him. People I know from his work, tell me he seems perfectly normal. He also told me weeks ago, when we spoke by phone for 2 mins that he was happy.
Would I make things worse if I emailed him to tell him I still love him and want him home? I afraid of making mistakes- I made so many that I chased him away.
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Chickpea
Unfortunately it is early days for you at the moment. MLCers often get worse before it gets better and there is a time when they move into the middle of the tunnel when they truly believe they are happy and content. At this time their world hasn't started to implode but it will.
I don't have a vanisher so can comment on him but IMO it is best to leave him alone at the moment. If you text him he will see that as pursuing and add it to his list of further justification.
I know it's hard and scary as they move further away. Our fear makes us panic and that is when we try and think of things to help. What we have to do is face the fear of being alone at the moment.
The pain and fear will get better....... honest.
xx
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Chickpea, consider the source of the statement that he is "happy". What else is he supposed to say. He is not going to admit for one minute that he is not happy and quite possibly made a mistake. Also, they function perfectly well in other areas of their lives. I wouldn't let it throw you that people see him as normal. What's normal about abandoning your family?
JA is correct that this is the early days for you and that things will improve. You didn't chase him away, but your pursuit gave him justification to continue his path. If it will make you feel better, write him a letter and then don't send it. He really does need time alone with no pressure. I know it is difficult for you, but they really don't move too quickly on things and a lot of the things we fear in the beginning never come to pass.
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I purchased RCRs book from the store today. I paid on paypal. Does anyone know how I get access to it?
Thanks
RCR here
I've already PM'd with ehill, but want to respond here as well.
There was a malfunction between the connection between PayPal and the store service I use. I've corrected it and I manually sent a copy of the e-book to those who purchased it when it was malfunctioning. If anyone else has problems...please let me know ASAP.
The download for the e-book (or any of the other purchases) comes in the thank you page that follows the transaction and another link is sent by email--just to be sure. All of that is automatic through the store service.
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I'm just wondering do they come through mlc without the help of a counselor? My H will never seek help. He won't even go to a doctor when he is sick. I suggested he talk to someone after he told me he feels lost and doesn't know why. He said "for what, to tell him I don't know whats wrong with me and he can guess?" I see him struggling with himself so much and its breaking my heart. I know I can't fix him and have stopped trying but its killing me to see him hurting.
Any insight would be appreciated.
You are all so strong and wise here. Thank you for sharing all your stories. It gives us hope that better days are really ahead.
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I think they can come out of it without a counselor. In the early stages, a counselor doesn't generally help much. They only "hear" what they want to hear in the first place, so no matter what the counselor said to him, he would translate it to VALIDATE how he is feeling, or behaving or whatever.
My h went to counselors in the early stages and did exactly what I said above. Useless. His experience from the counseling he received during his crisis, certainly POISONED his impression of how helpful they can or can't be. To this day, he refuses to "see" that he was just as much responsible for what he saw as, USELESS help. He seems to think that these counselors should be able to read his mind and should have somehow FORCED him to see, how ridiculous he was behaving.
I can't see how visiting a counselor will help you, if you have a NEGATIVE/biased opinion about them before you even start. Mind you, some of these counselors really are USELESS!
hugs Stayed
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I also thought my H would never go to see a counselor. He never wanted anything to do with psychiatrists, although OW is working as a cleaning lady in a psychiatrical hospital. Wonder were they are talking about. LOL!!!
Last year I arranged an appointment for him but the day before he start to text me. And although I reacted very quite the messages became more and more hostile and the last one was saying that he was not going to see any therapist.
Now, one year later he is more quite and living more in reality I think. Last week we went to see a counselor together with D19 and D22. I think his life is a mess. Had a car accident two weeks ago, his work is a mess, he had to dismiss one of his employees due to sever losses since his crisis etc. etc. He wrote me a very angry email saying that it is all his fault cause he ran away from us. But he was willing to talk to somebody to see what was wrong with him.
Next week we will go for counseling together. But there is still a long way to go I think, cause he still in denial sometimes. I guess that is safer that seeing the truth.
I would advise you to try to find out the cause of his MC so in case he wants to see a counselor you can look for somebody specialized. In my case my H is a 2nd generation war victim. Our therapist is specialized in this kind of people.
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I wonder what withdrawal looks like if you are dealing with a clinging boomerang. My guess is that they never withdraw. So do they skip that stage???? Any suggestions?
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Liminality is a different kind of withdrawal than withdrawing their contact type. Here's what RCR says on it:
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality.html
Liminality is the means to reintegrating the Shadow fragments. Liminal Depression serves a purpose. There are times when we need to go down within ourselves for self-contemplation and growth. This may be a time of withdrawal into quiet solitude, but for not all people withdraw and there are those who will continue to manifest their depression through escalating anger; as the depression worsens, his behaviour may become more erratic and volatile.
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=732
Are Liminality and Withdrawal the same?
No. Liminality is one of the main stages of MLC.
Separation
Liminality
Rebirth
Reintegration
Withdrawal is an action. It happens many times in different places throughout MLC—such as alienator withdrawal which happens in the early days, weeks and even months after the breakup; that sort of withdrawal is the addictive type. So it is not a conscious action to withdraw into one’s Self or away from someone or something. Alienator withdrawal is the physiological and psychological reactions to breaking contact with the addictive source.
The withdrawal you are talking about is considered a stage of MLC according to Jim Conway’s version of the stages. He places it at the end or after Depression—it may run during Depression, it may follow or both.
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Oh thnx for the information. I understand now.
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Help. I'm confused.
Any contact w. my h makes me shake, literally, even an email. He wants to visit tomorrow--I have plans but could fit in an hour. I am confused about what I am doing. I do/don't want to see him. He is in replay--am I paving the way by seeing him? Is it good 'strategy' to keep seeing him or should I not think 'strategy'. IDK. I feel like he will just slip away forever if I don't keep contact & yet I think he just checks to see everything is the same so he can go on his merry way. Or else he wants to nag me about the separation agreement. >:(
I don't know of any couples who have reconciled who haven't stayed 'friends'. :-\
I am wavering between trying to forget he exists & wanting to keep a link. Maybe email contact is enough. I still panic, even on the phone. With email, I wait at least 3 hours before answering & can keep a 'happy' tone.
Is it being a lighthouse when he never sees me?
I need to be strong enough [detached! ;)] to see him without, at least, physical symptoms. I cannot believe it makes me sick to my stomach to talk to my own h.
One thing I am sure of--I am confused! :-[
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Hi Calamity,
I am going to move this to your thread and try and give my 2 cents worth.
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Hi Mentors
Following on from what ehill and Niek were talking about re counseling I was wondering if it is advisable for me to send my H some links to websites that might help. I was thinking particularly of "Engaging the Disquiet". I've read it and it seems like it would be pretty helpful and also good since it's by a guy.
My concern is that my H will see it as interfering and it will do more damage than good. Alarm bells are ringing as I'm writing this, so maybe that's my answer, but I value your opinions.
What do you think - is it advisable for me to offer him help in any form?
Thanks
CB :) x
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I wouldn't send him anything. I did that with my h and all it did was pi$$ him off more.
You said you are hearing warning bells. Listen to your instincts. They are far better tuned into the situation then you realize. When your h wants to know stuff, he will find it himself. Chances are, he won't bother. Most don't. They just want it to go away. Pity.
hugs Stayed
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Following on from what ehill and Niek were talking about re counseling I was wondering if it is advisable for me to send my H some links to websites that might help. I was thinking particularly of "Engaging the Disquiet". I've read it and it seems like it would be pretty helpful and also good since it's by a guy.
My concern is that my H will see it as interfering and it will do more damage than good. Alarm bells are ringing as I'm writing this, so maybe that's my answer, but I value your opinions.
What do you think - is it advisable for me to offer him help in any form?
NO - it is FIXING and CONTROLLING.
He needs to do this himself.
When you tell a child to do something, how often do they do the exact opposite?
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Following on from what ehill and Niek were talking about re counseling I was wondering if it is advisable for me to send my H some links to websites that might help. I was thinking particularly of "Engaging the Disquiet". I've read it and it seems like it would be pretty helpful and also good since it's by a guy.
My concern is that my H will see it as interfering and it will do more damage than good. Alarm bells are ringing as I'm writing this, so maybe that's my answer, but I value your opinions.
What do you think - is it advisable for me to offer him help in any form?
NO - it is FIXING and CONTROLLING.
He needs to do this himself.
When you tell a child to do something, how often do they do the exact opposite?
That says it pretty loud and clear! That would be NEGATIVE to your question, Cherry Blossom. hehehe.
hugs stayed
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You said you are hearing warning bells. Listen to your instincts. They are far better tuned into the situation then you realize. When your h wants to know stuff, he will find it himself. Chances are, he won't bother. Most don't. They just want it to go away. Pity.
Thanks Stayed - it is a pity isn't it? I guess I've just been reading about how if they don't face their demons and return then the MLC will come back. I will trust my instincts though - thanks :)
NO - it is FIXING and CONTROLLING.
He needs to do this himself.
When you tell a child to do something, how often do they do the exact opposite?
And thanks OP - I love how you shouted just to emphasise ;) - got it loud and clear as Stayed has noted lol :)
Sometimes I just need a reminder that I'm on the right path - leaving my H to his own solutions and not contacting him.
Thank you both for replying so quickly. I really don't think I would be able to cope so well if it weren't for yours and everyone else's help and support on this site. I am so glad I found this sanctuary :D
I'm gonna give myself a little pat on the back for seeking out your opinion and another one for taking your advice ;D
:) x
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I'm gonna give myself a little pat on the back for seeking out your opinion and another one for taking your advice ;D
:) x
Give yourself a pat on the back for recognizing the warning bells going off in your head as well! Often Standing is counterintuitive.
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Give yourself a pat on the back for recognizing the warning bells going off in your head as well! Often Standing is counterintuitive.
Thanks RCR :) x
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Just after BD I e-mailed my H some information about MLC. One of the things H said at BD was that he wanted a new life. He read the information, looked up and said: I don't recognize myself in it. I don't want a new life, why should I want a new life?!!!
So it is useless. They have to get out of this mess by their own. It has nothing to do with you and therefore you cannot help them.
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Thanks for your input Niek - yep, I've grown accustomed to the contradictions....
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Just after BD I e-mailed my H some information about MLC. One of the things H said at BD was that he wanted a new life. He read the information, looked up and said: I don't recognize myself in it. I don't want a new life, why should I want a new life?!!!
So it is useless. They have to get out of this mess by their own. It has nothing to do with you and therefore you cannot help them.
I did this too. He read it and said " I can see how you think I might have this personality, but I'm not having a mid life crisis." I just looked at him and said "well, then you are just an a@@*&(e who is committing adultery!"
Not my best moment but it was early in the process! ;D
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I did this too. He read it and said " I can see how you think I might have this personality, but I'm not having a mid life crisis." I just looked at him and said "well, then you are just an a@@*&(e who is committing adultery!"
Not my best moment but it was early in the process! ;D
Oh, I don't know about that... sounded like a pretty good retort to me! ;D ;D ;D ka ka ka!!! Pretty quick of you, actually and considering the state you were in... I'm IMPRESSED!!!
Hugs
Edit for an extra quote - Oldpilot
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I did this too. He read it and said " I can see how you think I might have this personality, but I'm not having a mid life crisis." I just looked at him and said "well, then you are just an a@@*&(e who is committing adultery!"
Not my best moment but it was early in the process! ;D
Oh, I don't know about that... sounded like a pretty good retort to me! ;D ;D ;D ka ka ka!!! Pretty quick of you, actually and considering the state you were in... I'm IMPRESSED!!!
Hugs
I'm with Stayed. Having a good come back can be a good thing. Sometimes we need to just shut-up, but not always.
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Wow, my partner said that exact same thing, when I was giving him literature to read, almost word for word, "Ican see how you think this sounds like me, but I am not having a mid life crisis." Unreal how he said the same thing to me. Said the same about info on depression I had given him, "I can see how you think this looks/sounds like me, but I am not depressed."
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When things first started for me (before I knew what this all was REALLY about..the depression, the MLC, THE LONG ROAD TO FREEDOM, etc), I asked my H to read a lot about saving marriages, etc. He would say that it makes sense but he doesn't feel like it really applies to him.
After the announcement that he was in PA with OW I stopped giving him anything to read. It was only after that, that i started finding resources and information on depression, MLC etc.
I know we are not meant to pursue and initiate talk, etc. Sometimes I want to just shake him and say 'wake up, look at this, see what is happening! SLOW DOWN stop running and we can figure this out. We can figure YOU out'.. Is it ever wise to actually sit down with your MLCer and say "this is what I am seeing and I am concerned". I suppose it could come across as blaming....hmmmm
One time, a few months ago, I asked my MLCer if he would try and intervene if he saw me doing something that was harming myself and my children.If he would try and get me to see and support me. He said yes. I left it at that. But it made me curious about talking to him.
Any thoughts?
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Star,
He won't listen....and he especially won't listen if the advice is from the LBS.
This is HIS issue to deal with. Leave him to it.
Think about teenagers. They don't want anyone - especially their parents - telling them anything. The same goes for MLCers. And, in many situations, they see their LBS as a parent - attempting to control them.
L
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SORRY, Star... there is no reasoning with an MLCer... until they are ready to listen. The chances are, you won't be sure when that is, but I can assure you, NOW IS DEFINITELY not that time. :(
You didn't break him my dear... so you can't FIX HIM!!!
Sorry... hugs Stayed
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Limitless and stayed,
Thank you for your responses. I figured as much...I am looked upon as the old and boring authority figure trying to tell him what to do, and getting in the way of him 'knowing what he is doing and what is best'.
Sigh
Sometimes its like watching someone jumping off a cliff in slow motion.
Hugs to all.
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Sometimes its like watching someone jumping off a cliff in slow motion.
SADLY, we all know EXACTLY what you mean by this... oh hummmmmmmmmmm!!! :-[
hugs Stayed
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A question for those with much more experience at this than I.
My H indicated within the last year - that he will not look back at what went wrong. He will only look forward to building a new life for himself without me. I wondered if that means his issues will continue to be buried and therefore not addressed or will they eventually fester until he can no longer suppress them?
Hugs,
Believer
Edit: answering on your thread - OldPilot
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Hi Believer, just stopping by to say hi and Merry Christmas to you. I think it is time to plan another get together. Lots to catch up on. I, like you, wonder if they just move on, or if all the issues are there, hidden by his current happiness with the ow, his wife in 4 days...hard to believe. I also wonder if his issues that led to this crisis will someday errupt, poor ow...though I will never feel sorry for her ...
Oh well, wishing you a blessed Christmas
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Hi don't know if anyone can help but I'm sure I read somewhere about touch'n'goes, and how the frequency of them drop off as they move deeper into the tunnel.
My H in the earlier days would have frequent t&gs, usually around a 3 month cycle . However we haven't had one now for well over a year. If I remember it was around September 2011, just after his R with OW1 broke up, and it was the longest one so far, lasting a few weeks. He admitted that he could not move on and that he couldn't stay away. Shortly after that he hooked up with OW2 in around November 2011. Since then we have not had one t&g. This could be that he has finally found his soul mate and has 'moved on' or he is so far into the tunnel that he has lost sight of everything we had before. He still spends part of every day here, but the emotional distance between us is huge.
If anyone can refer me to this article I would be grateful.
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http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_touch-and-goes-and-reconnection.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_touch-and-goes-and-reconnection.html)
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Is there any kind of research on whether the severity of MLC is hereditary?
My husband has two brothers. All of them have been divorced at least once. Two of them will have been divorced twice if you count my H who filed for divorce on BD day. And I just found out today that a month and a half after BD one of my husband's brothers got divorced for the third time. That is 6 divorces amongst 3 brothers - all the divorces were initiated by the brothers.
My father in law also had an affair somewhere around the time the youngest brother either started High School or left for college. He was also a workaholic. My H used to complain to me that his dad was never around because all he did was work and when he was home, everyone had to walk on egg shells around him and let him do whatever he wanted to do because he was always in such a bad mood. (Yet, in spite of complaining about it, my husband also became a workaholic). Subsequently my mother in law became a very passive aggressive person and has never been able to let go of her sons. She calls and texts them multiple times a day (she would send my H a text every morning telling him to have a great day and then she would call him right when he got off work to talk to him about his day).
I just find it interesting that there are so many divorces in my H's family that have all been initiated by them.
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I think many men with MLC are workaholics. Its is a way to run away from their FOO issues. If that doesn't work anymore OW comes in the picture.
My H comes from an identical family as your H. All his brothers are divorced and left their children. One brother is now with OW3. His sister recently left her boyfriend cause she (also) wants to be free. Another sister is a widow, but from the day her H died he was never mentioned anymore by her and no one is allowed to talk about him. Reason why her son has a severe problem with alcohol and drugs I think. Tried to commit suicide twice but everybody in his family pretends nothing is the matter. Problems doesn't exist cause to the outside world the family is perfect. And I think that this strange way of coping with problems is also the reason that we LBS many times doesn't hear nothing anymore from our FIL.
The funny thing is that I also thought his family was perfect although I always saw some very strange things. A passive aggressive MIL who never showed emotions and has very very very little interest in her children. But all her children adored her and treated her like their child. But since MLC I now what a mess this family must be and how my H really feels about his mother. Thanks to all his projections and blaming.
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Finally
Not sure about the research but we all have transitions in life and midlife is one of them. Most of us get trough with a small bump or nothing at all.
Those who go into crisis are those who have had their emotional development stalled in their childhood. Therefore with the same parents it likely runs in families but not always. Depends how resilient the child was and whether there was a significant adult in their life who could support them through their emotional development.
But Neik is right the FOO issues have the biggest impact and they are often hidden until we know them really well. Like your H brothers my H brother has also gone through MLC and got divorced.
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I haven't gotten much feedback on my threads since I switched from the private board to the community board. I would certainly welcome everyone.s thoughts on my thread....
Here is a link to my thread http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3100.0
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I have a question
Do I continue to tell my H that his S's are not coping very well.. Friends said I should let him know. I have actually told him before but deflects saying it would have happened whether he was here or not.
S17 is holding all his feelings inside and his psych has advised me to keep a close eye on him. Because of his depression
S15 is very emotional, clingy, cries a lot during the day and says life isn't worth
living
Any advice would be helpful
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Oh my dear itina, you must be terrified. I know I would be.
Quite frankly, I honestly can't see it having much of an impact on your h. Most MLCer's just can't seem to get their minds off their own "self interests", if their children are not coping, it is obviously because of something you are doing wrong. WE know this is not true. I think you should always keep your h INFORMED about his children, just don't expect much from him.
As for the boys, do you have an important, influential male in your life, ie. Father, brother, brother in law... cousin... friend? If not, perhaps you could get them a "big brother" or some such equivalent. Your sons need some help, big time. 15 year old young men, do cry easily, nor do they talk about life not being worth living. This sounds very serious to me. Perhaps the school could help you, they have in school counseling now, for these type of situations. They are very good as well. My middle son had a bad accident years ago and his big brother was with him, when it happened. My oldest son felt responsible. The school counseling, really helped.
I can't believe your S17's psych, told you to keep an eye on him, without providing you with some suggestions on how to help him. Yikes. You poor woman.
One of the things that WE ALL FOUND, our children very much took their CUES from us. When I was a whimpering, snotty, blob on the floor, my children were edgy, tearful and skittish. Once I got my feet under myself. Got my emotions under control and could talk to them confidently, they IMPROVED drastically. Our children depend on us. Not fair, I know, as we are in such a fragile state but sometimes having to get a grip and sort ourselves out, is the best thing for us. Having children that are obviously falling apart due to the situation, is often JUST THE STIMULUS we need, to get busy and start putting Humpty back together again.
Hugs Stayed
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Thank you stayed
I am very, very concerned about their mental/emotional stability.
My older brother has been talking to them. He quite often doesn't know what to say. S's have been on school holidays so have not been able to access school counsellors. The only thing psych said is son might have to have AD.
Funny thing is I am more in control of myself now and they seem to be falling to pieces more now. Honestly I think that they both thought he would come home.
One thing I keep letting them both know is that I am there for them no matter what it is!!! I don't know what else to do
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itina
Maybe, they feel they can fall apart now, that u are doing better. Sounds like they have a good, sound, switched on mom. I always found that once I was aware of things, it was much easier to prevent it from escalating.
Hopefully others will be along who have dealt more with the ages of your sons. My children were older when this happened... youngest was 19 and just starting university, the others were all in their 20's. This definitely EFFECTS everybody in the family. The children feel just as betrayed and abandoned as us.
They are lucky to have you... hugs Stayed
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Thanks stayed
H doesn't think it affects them because they are teenagers. but I agree it affects all family
Thank you
Itina
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Truth is itina, he's not thinking. He DOESN'T want to believe it will or is effecting them. He would have trouble justifying what he is doing, if he admitted that it might effect the boys. Besides, if there is OW, undoubtedly she has told him that the boys will get used to it... EVENTUALLY... everybody will be happy, blah blah blah... and who knows more about ANYTHING then other woman.
In my case OW should have known, she is now in her 4th. marriage... hehehe. I assume her girls don't even notice anymore. This most recent h is a year older then our youngest son... 26... and her youngest daughter is only a couple years older then my son. I forgot to mention she is only one year younger then me which makes her 59, or at least as far as we know... h says he looked at her records and she is older then told him... so who knows?
Can we say bat$hit crazy? It will all work out. If you are strong your sons will mirror you, in time.
hugs Stayed
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itina,
My girls are older but my younger was 16 when this started. It affects them. My son is 35 and is married and it effects him because I'm his mom.
My girls just confronted their dad at Christmas. Everything that they felt came out. So, never think for a moment that what is happening with your h doesn't get to them. Just be strong for them and let them know that no matter what, your there.
And however they feel about their dad, its between them and him. Only thing you can do is be there for them. One day, they will confront them. When that happens just let it be.
Be there for them, thats all you can do right now.
FH
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Thanks stayed and finding hope
I do think other woman is H's guide.
Hugs
Itina
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Someone tagged him in a picture on f/b with another woman at a party he went to New Year's Eve. I believe she is just a friend as I have intercepted texts between the two of them and it's not flirtatious at all
I was wondering and need advice. I think I know the answer but just want some input......
H is going somewhere for Super Bowl, (don't know where) and I was going to casually mention "just be sure your friends don't post facebook pictures of you with other women, its kind of embarrasing."
Should I? Shouldn't I? Will it make any difference or just set things back?
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I don't think you should do that. Someone else posting something is not under his control, only his own behaviors are. You can't control these - he's going to do what he's going to do, photographic evidence or not. It's my belief that longer we set ourselves up as the parent, keeping an eye on them to do the wrong thing, the more they'll keep us in that role, too. Others will no doubt have more to say from experience, but I think he would view it as "She's watching me - I'll show HER!" or as pressure. A lot of us get accused of being "stalkers" of our spouses early on, and even though we're just trying to make sense of our lives by looking, it can get used against us. Err on the side of caution in what you reveal that you know is my advice.
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Sigh, I know I shouldn't. Sometimes I just want to try to make him see what he is doing. I know it doesn't make any difference to the MLCr but I just want to scream "dont you know what you are doing is wrong???"
The picture was posted to his fb page, but he hid it on his timeline. His mom is one of his friends so I know he was hiding it from her as well as other family members. (and me too, but that point is moot as I have his login and password unbeknownst to him)
I guess the fact that he is living such a lie and no one knows but me just makes me crazy sometimes. He's such a hypocrite. And he should be smarter than this. I would say that he doesn't care, but he tries to take pains to make sure no one knows or finds out.......but he's not very good at it.....people have seen him, people know. All but his family who have their head in the sand......
I guess I should be grateful that he's not flaunting anything, and I sure don't want to push him into bringing it all public. I think that would probably set back any chance of R in the future......at least as far as he would think. He has been very attentive and accomodating lately. I don't know whether to be suspicious, or encouraged. This sucks.
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I am going to answer on your thread slowfade
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I have a question that I hope someone, maybe a mentor, can answer. My W has recently done something that as long as I have known her she hasn't ever done. For our entire M she has been a tea drinker. She couldn't stand the smell of coffee. Couldn't be around it, look at it, make it, etc. Well recently she started drinking mocha lattes and now is hooked on coffee! Something I NEVER thought I would see. The same for oatmeal. W couldn't stand smell of it, consistency of it. Now she is eating that as well. Talk about when he** freezes over! ??? ???
My question that I am asking is this some sign of a change in her, good or bad or indifferent? I believe W likes the increase buzz from the coffee to continue the high. I don't think she likes it when there is no caffine. She is alwaays drinking diet soda, tea, now coffee. There seems to be a change in W, not only in food choices, but her overalll attitude.
Not sure what this means in the MLC process. Any thoughts on this?
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Speaking from personal experience, I wonder if this is hormonally related.
After our third child, I have not been able to eat eggs unless they were 'hidden' in baking etc.
If I ate eggs of any kind, I would feel extremely nauseated.
He is now 15, and in the past year, I have been able to eat them again, and very much enjoy them.
I used to have a sweet tooth, but this has changed dramatically in the past year also - and my snack of choice? Walnuts! yes Walnuts. I can only but imagine that my body is demanding the minerals and the omega 3's, but I have no idea really.
So, your wife may be trying things out that match her new found personality, or it could be something similar to what I have experienced.
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Kikki, thanks for the reply. I think you may have something since W has recently gone back on birth control pills. I do believe quite a bit of her issues are hormonal related. Along with childhood / adolescent issues. Perfect cocktail for MLC!
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I would google this question. I know taste buds do become less sensitive as we age & that would account for liking stronger tastes--coffee vs tea. Hormones, chemical change maybe? I would hate to rush in & conclude all changes are related to mlc.
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In my H's case, he now eats two things he always hated: asparagus and pork. Really strange things to suddenly crave!
I have had a serious peanut allergy my whole life, couldn't even touch or smell peanut without getting sick. Post crisis, I realized after a few months of feeding it to them that my dogs' food had some sort of peanut in it. For the first time in my life, I could smell it, and it didn't break me out in a rash if I touched it. Haven't braved eating any to test it full on, but it seems my allergy has definitely changed. There is definitely a hormonal element to this that physiologically changes us!
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Not sure what you and wife's life experiences are like, but I have found, people that travel a great deal or who have lived in other countries, are far more likely to be flexible with their diets/food choices. We simply have had to try things that looked "questionable" to be polite and discovered they were absolutely "divine"!
She could just be more curious about things, feels like her life has changed so much recently, that what the heck! Tried it and liked it. Could very well be hormonal. Could also be an indication of something her body is missing during this stage in her life. Most times, we crave something for a good reason. Most of us quite instinctively will find what it is our bodies seem to be craving. Quite frankly, we spend most of lives IGNORING what our heart, body and minds tells us would be good for us. I think we have far more INGRAINED memory knowledge then we realize. Perhaps, MLC brings out that NATURAL trait, that all of us have, as we read and watch, every article, document and tv program out there, that TELLS us what we should be feeling, thinking, doing! :o
So often we go through life blindly, routinely following the WAY WE DO THINGS. Perhaps when our mental attitudes change, everything else changes with it. Good question though Bailmore. I guess you could say, WE DON'T KNOW!! :-\
HUGS Stayed
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Interesting to note the changes in tastes and I do wonder if it's the body telling them that it needs something. I also wonder if it's the whole trying out different personas too - trying to be different. Maybe some of the dislikes they had before they see as being part of the old self.
Mr B never liked hummus - hated it, in fact - but after BD he couldn't get enough of it. I asked him why the sudden change of heart and he said it was because of me (he was almost crying at this point) - because I liked it so much. I found that kind of a strange reason and I think it's more likely that it's something that OW has said she likes. On the plus side one of the benefits of hummus is uplifting your mood, because it contains so much Omega 3, so maybe it's also his body trying to tell him something.
On a related note, in the past Mr B would try lots of different types of food (he's quite adventurous as long as it's expensive) but he would get very attached to particular meals - wanting to get the same meal each weekend, for instance. I just can't even look at salmon en croute any more because of this...
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Bailmor certain foods actually help boost moods. Caffiene and oatmeal fall in this category. For Kikki it seems to be walnuts and eggs, it's the omega 3. Mine was jalapeno's for a long time. I never ate them until I discovered I was dealing with some depression symptoms and craved them everyday. Here's a link to understand a little more about food and moods.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/23521-depression-relief-diet/
http://www.helpfordepression.com/slideshow/lifestyle-changes/10-foods-boost-your-mood
http://www.prevention.com/weight-loss/diets/diet-tips-eat-foods-boost-your-mood?page=2
Here's just a few websites that you can see how food can affect moods. I could probably research this all day but I did it in the past when I was finding that I was having unusual food cravings.
Take care,
Lulu
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Good stuff Leftylulu, I will check out your site later... hugs Stayed
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Great info Leftylulu! Now I have a craving for walnuts. Might just pick some up.
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Great links, thanks LeftyLu
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Your welcome and my pleasure!!!
Take care,
Lulu
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Thank you FB. I think this is the angriest I've been with the most resolve to detach. Maybe I am moving forward.....
One thing I need to ask and I will post this on the mentor board too is this.
It didn't take very long for H to cave. He called me again tonight while I was in the bath (s9 brought me my phone, he's such a phone nazi! Can't stand not to answer it.) H wants us to come to his house for dinner and he will give me some money.
I think he may have sensed the change in me. That he's finally crossed that line. Then he asked me how much weight I had lost. I told him about 35 pounds, thinnest I've been in about 10 years. I asked him why and he said it just shows. "you are getting a figure back." WTH??? Is that MLC speak for now that you look better I'm interested again??? I was mildly insulted. All I said was "yes, others have been noticing and complimenting me too when they come in the office." Let him wonder about that!
What is he doing? Is this another touch and go? Charming Monster" Fear of losing me finally? I'm not in a place to analyize this at all. I don't want to get hoovered back in. I'm afraid.
Opinions on how to handle this are needed! Help!
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Slow Fade, don't handle it... IGNORE IT! MLCer's can't stand to be seen as the BAD GUY. Not to mention, you were "suppose to be" where he left you... "what the heck, it looks.... oh my goodness, but I think you are THRIVING? WTH? ? ? Get back on the floor, how dare you look GREAT, healthy, almost happy!!
This is their crisis and some of them, I think they want you to REMEMBER that. Sorry but you must never forget... they are BAT$HIT CRAZY my dear. You are sounding like you are finding your place in all this, like you are beginning to appreciate YOU. This is his crisis, this is his problem, but it looks to me, like you are AND have LEARNED a lot from this.
You want to attract the RIGHT people into your life, then find your inner strength, your inner peace, joy and love of life. There is nothing more attractive then a person who CLEARLY loves being ALIVE and nobody and nothing is going to take that away from them. Reading your comments Slow Fade, I have seen a dawning awareness of self.
Keep going my dear... hugs Stayed
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I have a question. I keep reading that the MLCer has had some kind of childhood trauma that was never resolved thats why this is happening. My H had a wonderful childhood and adolesences. He has a great family. All of his actions and words are textbook MLC. Could someone have MLC and not have had a bad childhood?
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I would think so ehill. I'm not convinced that this is caused by an unhappy childhood... goodness, most of the world would be in crisis if that were true...
hugs Stayed
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I think there's too much evidence of other factors being involved. Childhood issues may play a role, but hormone changes, neurotransmitters in the brain, and current major life events have a dominant role, too, I believe.
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Jim Conway had a difficult childhood, but Chuck didn't.
Chuck's father was in a work explosion when Chuck was about 7 and when he was a teenager his younger sister almost died from lupus and around that same time their cousin who was his sister's age--they were very close--drowned at a family picnic. They were supposed to go, but did something else that day, otherwise they would have been at the scene.
Chuck's dad is very nice, but a perfectionist. He was the foreman at a floor covering store owned by his older brother. Chuck began working there and training in his early 20s and there were a lot of cousins and at least one uncle working there. He was teased be everyone and nicknamed anchor--and not because an anchor is strong and steady; they meant he weighed them down. Maybe two years ago he was doing a side job and went into the store to pick something up and came out with tears--someone had said hi anch to him. They had not meant it to be mean anymore, the name just stuck I think. But his self-esteem was pretty low growing up and I don't know that his parents encouraged self-confidence. But his upbringing was pretty normal and healthy too.
His low self-esteem set him up for MLC, but he didn't need a trauma to get there.
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Thank you all,
My H has had great self esteem and a good life for the 24 years I knew him before this crisis hit out of nowhere for me 2 years ago.
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Thank you all,
My H has had great self esteem and a good life for the 24 years I knew him before this crisis hit out of nowhere for me 2 years ago.
There may be no way for you to know what trauma or missing piece is left out of his life.
Maybe during his MLC his childhood age will emerge,
it really does not matter.
It is for him to resolve, not you.
You can not help him or change his childhood.
It could be a trust issue.
Or not enough girlfriends in high school.
Depends on the issue that was left behind.
You say that he has the traits of someone in MLC,
if you examine those closely it may help to determine what is missing.
If he has an OW, he is an an older age, no OW a younger age.
Replay is a do over. Try it again.
Hope that helps.
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Could someone have MLC and not have had a bad childhood?
Absolutely. I am a fan of Erickson's developmental stages and tasks of life. At any point, even with perfect parenting, something can happen that somehow affects the ability to successfully complete that stage.
A mother may have suffered from post partum depression and may not have physically given enough contact to her baby, she may have been ill at some critical stage, the child may have suffered an illness, it doesn't have to be something that is huge and overt.
I think that coupled with the biochemical, physiological and stress related issues that are faced, if the buildblocks are not firm, they will let go and a "break" occurs of a crisis ensues.
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This is my thinking too xyzcf.
My MIL loved her children dearly but didn't cope well because of having 5 in quick succession, post partum depression and then major surgery for a heart disorder. I had forgotten all about this. Thanks for the reminder. I think my H was around 11 at the time of his mother's surgery, which was the age our youngest son was when this was all set in motion.
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Hello Mentors - I'm hoping for some advice. I just had a messaging battle with husband and he's now pushing the separation agreement thing again. He presented me with financials a couple of weeks ago but nothing else discussed - no childcare. I don't want to even think about this at this time. I don't want to be bought out.
I want to reply that I haven't presented his proposal to "my people" but will let him know when I do. I want to say that I'm in no hurry to do this. He has had almost three years to get to this point, should I not be allowed some time, too? I don't intend to reply to his text. I don't even intend to go home and talk about it but should he bring it up again, can I say this? Any thoughts? Thank you - I'm a little unnerved by this. :(
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Hi DCD - I'll answer this on your thread.
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I have a question........or maybe a couple. My BD was in Oct. 2009, divorced final in Oct. 2010. I don't remember exactly at what point throughout all this mess but my exH started telling me he was sorry every chance he got. He expressed his hope that I would forgive him one day........which I have already forgiven him and he knows this. He has thanked me for my forgiveness and even expressed that my treatment of him/towards him has truly helped him. He also stated after his suicide attempt that he really wished none of this had happened and wished someone would have knocked some sense into his head. It will be two years in July since his suicide attempt.......so it has been two years or so since my exH has expressed how sorry he is/was or shown any kind of regrets. I'm not sure I can ask my question to cover what I'm trying to get at.......but, since my exH expressed this such a long time ago is this it? I mean, will there be more from him in regards to his regrets/remorse or will it just be pushed aside by him as time goes on? I guess I'm just wondering if anybody else has experienced this earlier in the beginning of their spouses MLC or something similar. And, for those who are further along and experiencing reconnection/reconciliation.......have they experienced anything like this as well.
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My h still apologizes. Out of the blue, often when we are having a wonderful time, he will give me a hug and tell me how GRATEFUL he is to be here living this moment, with me. Often he will add... "Stayed, I really am, so terribly sorry!"
It's been 6.5 years for us, I am thinking he is never going to forget this. He has forgiven himself but sometimes, you really are struck by how FORTUNATE you are. Whatever we did, if we had not done it, we might not have been here now, doing what we are doing. Enjoying our family together. Our lives could have gone in a completely different direction.
If they don't return, but apologize, I have no idea if they say it a few times and let it go! You would have to do a survey, I am thinking.
That's my situation. Do other returners continue to apologize?
hugs Stayed
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LoveMyMan - my BD was Feb 2010. My H too was very very apologetic for a long time, but I haven't heard any of this sort of thing for a couple of years either now.
I think they must be in the 'it gets worse before it gets better' phase. And there is more light at the beginning and ends of the tunnels.
It doesn't mean that he isn't making solid progress - just that it is darker in there for him right now.
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LoveMyMan - my BD Oct 2006. For two years I heard a lot of apologies. Since they have been rare. A couple in 2009 and maybe one in 2010. Mr J is still deep into the tunnel.
It is impossible to say if they are going to keep say they are sorry but when they are finally out of the tunnel I think they will say it often.
One of my cousins had MLC and, like your husband, tried to kill himself. His last attempt was less than 2 years ago, his rock bottom late June 2011. He is now much better.
Sometimes he says he is sorry, other times it is like he has forgot it all.
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Thank you, Stayed, Kiki and AnneJ for providing some insight for me. I'm not sure it really matters very much as to how many times they say they are sorry or not. I believe I'm just trying to have answers to impossible questions. I might not ever really have the answers from my exH so I shouldn't put so much energy into the "why's". It is what it is.
I suppose we are just curious by nature and want to understand as best we can. Perhaps this is part of the healing process.......maybe accepting the fact that we may never truly understand. It's just so difficult to get past all the stuff these MLC'ers put us through.
Thank you all again.
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I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.
WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Limitless was VERY gracious in including her h and from my point of view, it did not do her any good. It made it harder on her to attend the function. Don´t know how his presence affected the experience of her children- older teens and early twenties. You could PM her.
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I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.
WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.
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Thank you forthetrees and Rollercoasterider. Your advice and guidance is greatly appreciated. Indeed it is very difficult for me to see the WAS. At the time I think it's what I want, but then the aftereffects on my emotions are not helpful at all.
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Hi Everyone,
I am now in reconnection. I am struggling with the fact that I have not received any acknowledgments or apologies. I know it is still early and that they will likely come over time. He says he's sorry by his actions and thanking me for small things, and his affection, but I have yet to hear any words on the subject. I still have flashbacks and get a bit angry thinking of things that happened in the past year.
Are these gracious acts and affection the first step before the words of apology and signs of remorse? And before they actually come out of their mouth with words and say "I want to stay"? I believe he does, even seems to be "falling in love" with me again. Kisses and putting his forehead on mine and deep breathing.
Any suggestions on how to try to increase my patience in waiting for this grand event? LOL
Thanks!
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First I should have said that I am not sure that I am in reconnection. I ammmmm new to this. ;) But I do believe he is out of replay.
(Some excerpts from a recent post on my thread:)
As a refresher, BD was July 2011. There was at least an EA with much older OW. Sat me down and said he wanted a separation, then a divorce, but never did anything about it. I asked him to stop talking to/seeing OW, he wouldn't commit to it, despite marriage counseling. So I filed for divorce. He never left, never got an attorney (pretended he did) or responded, and still hasn't left or gotten an attorney or responded. But I have still not withdrawn the divorce petition. And we do not discuss it, ever.
To give some examples in the past 6 or so months:
--He was at work a few weeks ago and called our daughter. Was on speakerphone. He said "I love you D". She said "I love you too." Then he said "Tell mommy I love her."
--He has progressed. He often calls from work and said "I love you guys" on speaker phone. (I am grouped in with the daughter, as "you guys", but its a start)
--Tells daughter over the phone to "Give Mommy a kiss for me" sometimes.
--I told him I was going to sell my engagement ring and wedding band for money. He waited an hour and texted back "No. Don't do that. Those are for D when she grows up. If anything, I will sell mine." He left his rings on my nightstand. I didn't touch them. And then he moved them back to his nightstand about 5 days later. (Think that was a test for me)
--A few months ago, daughter told him she was excited because I said I would probably have a baby in 2014. He looked at me with a puzzled, "excuse me?" look. (He didn't take me aside and say hell no. Just looked at me and kept walking down the hallway. And hasn't mentioned it. Much better improvement from the evil look he gave me when he thought I was pregnant a year ago, after my miscarriage. He looked at me with the nastiest look I have ever seen from him or anyone, pierced my heart.)
--Walked up to me on Christmas after I said I couldn't find my foundation. Told me I don't need to wear any makeup.
--Woke up one morning last week, didn't say a word, and just walked up to me in the kitchen and hugged me for a long time, kissed my neck, hugged me more, kissed my lips and said "Hi. How are you feeling this morning?"
--Woke me up at 6am a few days ago, and said "Come over here. Roll over." I did and put my head on his chest. He rubbed and kissed my forehead and asked me how I was doing. I asked why he was up. He said "I thought you could use a hug". I said "Oh." He said "do you like this"? I said "Yes. Why are you being like this?" Then he said "Well, I needed a hug too." Then we talked about random stuff for about 15 minutes and both rolled over and went to sleep.
--Tells me he has faith in me that I will find a good job (used to treat me like I was being lazy)
--Offered to rub my feet because I'd been working hard.
--When I came home from work, he asked what was wrong. I said "I am exhausted". He said "Well, you should be. You work hard." (Huh, what happened to me being a lazy bum?! LOL)
Other random consistent stuff:
-Will just walk up and kiss me and hug me randomly
-Calls and checks up on me to see what I am doing if I am out with my car (worried are we....hehehe)
-Takes my car to put gas in it
-Brings me coffee to bed in the mornings sometimes
-Does more chores
-When I wake him to go to work, he always holds my hand and says "Climb up here" or pulls me up on the bed and kisses and hugs me, rubs my back
-Comes to rub my back and kiss me when I'm working on the computer
-Calls or texts me every night from work to thank me for making him coffee or dinner, and chats a bit
-Sex becoming even more amazing than before, we have always had great chemistry, but even better (also better for me because I rarely think of OW during it anymore)
I think he is at least awakening stage because I can feel his emotions, him taking in deep breaths and sighing when he kisses me. The other night I had a headache. When he came home from work, he pulled me close, put my face in both of his hands and whispered softly "I'm happy your headache is gone" and kissed me forehead and then my lips. Then he placed his forehead on mine, inhaled deeply, with my face still in his hands, and let out a big sigh and kissed me again. It was pretty adorable. I haven't heard him "love sigh" for many years.
Hard to figure out because I can't find much about Awakening. Saw a reference in a post that RCR was going to write an article about Awakening a few years ago. If anyone can direct me to it, that would be great. And/or any thoughts about "our stage". Thanks!!!
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Does sound like awakening but even so he can run again. He is feeling his way forward and trying to see if you are open to a new relationship and whether he wants a new relationship. He's gauging reactions. Before any reconnection with you he is likely to reconnect to friends and family including your D first. We always come last ::)
This could go on for months.
You won't see any apologies or remorse until he hits reconciliation and there is still a long way to go.
Remain detached but approachable. Follow your intuition and see how it goes. This isn't an easy road to travel with all it's bumps and twists.
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Hi Just Asking,
Thanks for responding.
He started reconnecting with his semi-estranged mom about 2 years ago. And he is very much connected to our D. For quite awhile, I basically became invisible and so was our D. He started taking OW to visit her at the hospital and not taking me with him when I asked to go. Didn't even speak to me or the D at home. I didn't realize what was going on until I was told by his sister. But now he can't keep his hands off of either of us. Is very affectionate and says "I love you" to both of us.
I get general apologies. Like if I bring up the hospital thing. He will hug and kiss me and say "I'm sorry you feel hurt" but not yet "I'm sorry I did XYZ".
I have a question though: How can he feel enough to deep breathe, put his forehead to mine, whisper to me and kiss me (that moment was really amazing, he used to do that years ago when we were deeply in love)? And also now say "I love you", "I miss you" and other loving things if he hasn't even gotten anywhere near reconnection and is still only "deciding" if he wants a relationship with me? Wouldn't saying "I love you" come only around the same time as apologies and remorse?
He makes comments about long term. For example, like asking me what "are you going to do when I can no longer get an erection 20 years from now?" And talks about us buying a house with a yard, etc... And he is still "deciding"? Yikes. I thought we were really "on our way". LOL. Reality slap for me. LOL.
Also, I am in a serious dilemma. I am 41 and want another child. We have a 7 year old girl, who asks for a sibling often and sometimes cries about it and being alone. I also really want another baby, but just one more. If this process can take up to another 4 years, I don't have that time. And that is not something I am willing to sacrifice not knowing how this is going to turn out. I already miscarried our second one in 2011. If I miss my short window, I will resent him even more.
At BD he told me he didn't want to have anymore kids and wouldn't change his mind so we might as well separate and divorce. That was almost 2 years ago, but he's still here. He has noticed that I still have the carseat and all the baby clothes and items that I had been saving for Baby #2. The carseat is actually in the hallway. Has been for a few months. I expected him to suggest that I give it away or ask why I am holding on to it, but he hasn't. My daughter has also brought it up and said "2014, right mommy" and I have said "yes, honey, I hope so". This was in front of him. All he did was give me a funny look but he has never said anything. I think he is aware that I haven't changed my mind about a baby and wont, especially given the miscarriage. So far, he is still here and still making improvements and showing affection. Hoping that means its because he's still open to the idea, because if he was dead against it, I would think he would want to have a talk about it or would leave.
After hearing and realizing that we aren't even at reconnection, I am disappointed and fearful because I don't think I can wait this out. Unless he is going to agree to have one. He's made bad and rash decisions during this process, so I am hoping that he is able to be willing to decide to do this within the next year. That is the longest I can wait. :(
I want to have the baby talk but don't know how long I should wait. Right now I am planning on the end of summer. By then, my finances will be better and we can separate if that is what is to be. Any advice on how to approach this?
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Willlit
No one knows what their time frame is. They can drag their feet or come through one stage faster than others. There is no magic wand or timeframe for the MLCer to work too.
The way he speaks to you is to get your reaction but also to feel his own. He needs to know that you can move forward together. Often awakening can move into reconnection without much of a blip. But he is still healing. Needs time and space and needs to pursue you and not the other way around. He may still ask to come home and continue his healing as the reconnection blossoms. The biggest majority do. So all is still possible at the moment.
The baby seat in the hall gave you an insight into his feelings. He didn't run but he didn't buy into it either. This causes him pressure and pressure makes them run.
I know you have a window of opportunity but if you separated then you would also miss that opportunity. All you can do is let him lead and hope he keeps on with his positive movement. But also give him any time he needs to reflect and heal. It will all come together as long as you don't spook him.
Babies can arrive before they are out of the tunnel. There are some babies born whilst they are in replay. Your BD was only July 2011 so in MLC script your not long into this. Make time your healer and not your enemy. It will take as long as it takes but within that many things can happen. You held firm when he spoke of divorce and look where you are today ;)
Hugs
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I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.
WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.
I did recently invite H to join two of the boys birthday parties with their friends (Not family). H did show up to one but was very awkward. he thought it was at a venue other than our home. My intention was to let the kids have mum and dad both present at their parties and show H the door was open for him to be involved in that aspect of their lives. Also to allow him to meet the other parents of the kids friends so that he may be more open to having their friends over when the kids are at his place (break the ice).
However, I am confused also. My counsellor also did not think it was a good idea. I managed to be detached so I felt Ok. H didn't really offer to help with anything so he was more of a hindrance than a co-parent. However, I tried to have 'no expectation'. In a sense I feel ok in that he can never say I didn't let him be involved.
I'm confused because other times I've been told I'm judgemental because I don't appreciate that he and the OW1 and OW2 are invited by people we both used to know from church to their place with the kids while we are still married. I'm trying hard to treat H personally with respect but it really hurts that others just accept him with his new life in front of my children. I feel I am really stuck on this point.
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I'm struggling with including my WAS in family activities or not. He still sees OW. We are 9 months post BD. He lives in an apartment on his own.
WAS asked to be included in family activities but my IC felt that was NOT a good idea. Please read my thread if you have time. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
I am in full agreement with your counselor. Set activities as a boundary: We would love for you to participate and be part of the family, but not while you are committing adultery. Inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated and right now your entire life is about being both an inappropriate father and husband.
I did recently invite H to join two of the boys birthday parties with their friends (Not family). H did show up to one but was very awkward. he thought it was at a venue other than our home. My intention was to let the kids have mum and dad both present at their parties and show H the door was open for him to be involved in that aspect of their lives. Also to allow him to meet the other parents of the kids friends so that he may be more open to having their friends over when the kids are at his place (break the ice).
However, I am confused also. My counsellor also did not think it was a good idea. I managed to be detached so I felt Ok. H didn't really offer to help with anything so he was more of a hindrance than a co-parent. However, I tried to have 'no expectation'. In a sense I feel ok in that he can never say I didn't let him be involved.
I'm confused because other times I've been told I'm judgemental because I don't appreciate that he and the OW1 and OW2 are invited by people we both used to know from church to their place with the kids while we are still married. I'm trying hard to treat H personally with respect but it really hurts that others just accept him with his new life in front of my children. I feel I am really stuck on this point.
So what were you expecting?
if you are confused you must have been expecting something to happen that didn't.
I think I may agree with your cousellor that this was not the best of ideas.
Although you were trying to show your husband that the door is open, you were also saying to your children that you approve of your husbands behavior and that it is OK to have OW1 or OW2 because you invited him to the party.
At least that is the way I see it.
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Thanks OP
I wasn't confused about his non-action at the party. but more along the latter part of your post.
I do not want to let the kids think it's ok to have an OW. I've been very outspoken on this. It upsets me how he and OW are invited out with the children and that MIL has not met OW also but still wanted to be friends with me. I feel as if they condone or enable him to continue in this wrong behaviour.
However, I've then been accused of being judgemental. So I'm confused about my reactions and my strong stance that he not be invited or welcome with OW in tow. Am I doing the right thing and what is healthy for the kids?? ie to Have mum and dad together at their party or to keep the door shut to H while he behaves this way. And what after the divorce is final? Does that make it different?
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However, I've then been accused of being judgemental. So I'm confused about my reactions and my strong stance that he not be invited or welcome with OW in tow. Am I doing the right thing and what is healthy for the kids?? ie to Have mum and dad together at their party or to keep the door shut to H while he behaves this way. And what after the divorce is final? Does that make it different?
You are not being judgmental in the least. So much for faith based organizations, I would have expected them of all places would have been the MOST CRITICAL of what your h is doing. Shows what I know!!
As for once you are divorced... your h is then free to date whomever he wishes, as are you. Go wherever he wants, as are you. For now, he is still married to you, doesn't seem right to be flaunting his latest infidelity. Uggggggggs.
hugs Stayed
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Thanks OP
I wasn't confused about his non-action at the party. but more along the latter part of your post.
I do not want to let the kids think it's ok to have an OW. I've been very outspoken on this. It upsets me how he and OW are invited out with the children and that MIL has not met OW also but still wanted to be friends with me. I feel as if they condone or enable him to continue in this wrong behaviour.
However, I've then been accused of being judgemental. So I'm confused about my reactions and my strong stance that he not be invited or welcome with OW in tow. Am I doing the right thing and what is healthy for the kids?? ie to Have mum and dad together at their party or to keep the door shut to H while he behaves this way. And what after the divorce is final? Does that make it different?
After the divorce or now it is not your job to enable the relationship between his kids and himself.
So I guess I would take the stance of doing no harm.
It is not your job to help him.
Let him help himself, if he cant that is not your problem.
If your kids need help you will give it to them.
But I do not see why we must do something we are not asked to do.
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I have a question and i do apologize if it's already been discussed somewhere - i haven't been able to find anything really that answers my question...maybe there really is no answer.
i am curious as to WHY they lie about things that are known and established. for instance, why lie, downplay, deny strong feelings about and for their "committed relationship" when it is a well-known fact that they are together? why go away for a weekend and deny that it is with the "girlfriend"? even going so far as offering out that information without even being asked? i guess right now my question in my situation is why is he mentioning a vacation that he may or may not go away on...and then follow up again with "i haven't decided if i'm even going but if i do it'll be between this time and this time, but i'm not sure if i'm even going" and meanwhile on his "friend"s" FB, she has the countdown going on. he did this last year, as well, stating he would most likely not be going but then later said he had to go "because of financial commitments".
why? do they get off on this type of behaviour? is it a type of gaslighting? is it meant to pull our chains? do they honestly believe as they are saying it that it's the truth or what they want to be the truth. why don't they just not say anything at all or even better, tell the truth (heheheh...i joke, of course!) I honestly don't get it. i really am better able to let this crap go and "believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do" but literally, within 12 hours, after he hadn't yet decided if he was going away, she posted her countdown...so very likely booked at this point and now "a financial commitment" any insight would be welcome and then maybe i can devote my headspace to something way more important, like contemplating my navel or counting the holes in the acoustic ceiling. thank you!.
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Different-colored days, I actually think it is a type of gaslighting, but honestly I really don't know. I have a son who is a compulsive liar. I will stupidly ask him a simple question and as soon as he opens his mouth I can tell I am going to get an honest or a dishonest response... if it's a lie, I instantly say... "I retract that question, forget...". He always looks so hurt. He will even try to say, "no honestly Mom"! I usually cover my ears and do the la la thing.
When my h was in crisis, it took me the longest time to realize he had become our oldest son. I have often wondered if it wasn't perhaps a genetic thing, perhaps my h always was a liar, but stopped doing it for while, then went into crisis and returned to his NORMAL state. I just don't know.
You did it now girl, cause you know I gotta say my favourite joke.
Q: How can you tell your partner is lying?
A: His/her lips are moving! hehehehe :P
It really is the craziest thing EVER.. isn't it? Bat$$h!te Crazy my friend... they are Bat$hit Crazy!!!
hugs Stayed
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Newbie here so don't take this as fact...
My IC explained to me that they lie because if they tell the truth then they have to accept that they are the person that they never wanted to be. IF they admit their truths, then they have to "own" them, and they aren't willing or able to take responsibility for the betrayal and destruction that they are causing.
I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, but I hope it adds a new perspective to things.
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Newbie here so don't take this as fact...
My IC explained to me that they lie because if they tell the truth then they have to accept that they are the person that they never wanted to be. IF they admit their truths, then they have to "own" them, and they aren't willing or able to take responsibility for the betrayal and destruction that they are causing.
I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, but I hope it adds a new perspective to things.
Hi jraff
Yes, makes a lot of sense, thanks for sharing that.
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Stayed ;D that was a real groaner but I'm smiling, nonetheless! Better than cryin' 'cause it's SO TRUE!!!
Husband was honest but just not much of a communicator so, interestingly enough, a lot of his deception are "lies by omission". Big surprise, huh? But he now seems to really have a knack for the verbal variety. It's really very gross.
Jhraff - I honestly believe one of my husband's biggest fears is that people won't see him as a good guy. What you said makes complete sense - I'm truly baffled by his thought processes. He really is so messed up. Guilt drives a lot of what he does. In fact, I can tell when he's about to do something or has just done something by his behaviour and acts of service. Hugs and physical closeness comes before, as does little jobs around the place, extra cash "just because"...and so on. After he pulls the boner, he disappears for a bit then returns like nothing happened, but a little nervous and quick to please. He obviously twists himself up in knots, but clearly not enough to stop the deceit. He continues to try and balance two lives, but to what end? Even he doesn't know, I'm certain. He's had his moments of clarity but then somehow finds the "oomph" and back in the fog he goes.
Thank you for your thoughts!
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jhraff, interesting. One of the final hurtles we had was getting my h to even THINK ABOUT WHAT HE had done. I remember him screaming at me... "don't want to remember!" Eventually, he cried, "I can't believe I was that man!"
He tried everything within his power to BLOCK this out. It was me finally telling him," you can't do that hubby because I CAN NEVER FORGET THIS and if I have to live with it... they you are going to have to as well!" He was obviously ready to hear that, because as I was crawling into bed that night... (this was a good 18 months into reconnection/reconciliation), he grabbed my hand and said, "I am so sorry Stayed!!!"
He still says it every once in a while. Not when we have a dispute, usually after we have had a wonderful time/occasion/event. I guess when we have a really, really good time together, that is when he is most AWARE of what he would have missed out on, if he had not come out of his crisis.
I wish they all would come out of it. :-[
hugs Stayed
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Thank you so much Just Asking. You have given me so much to think about. So inspiring to see "veterans" who have gotten to where you are and not forgotten those of us behind you. I hope I can do the same for others one day. I know once you get to a certain point and there is no longer a strong mutual need for support, hearing about our sitches and how we handle them may seem a bit off. But emotions are complex and we were all hit with a ton of bricks for the first time. You, Sassy, Bon and Hyperglad's patience and guidance has helped me greatly and are priceless to me and I look up to you all. I will always remember and appreciate you all. Thanks again. :-*
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Just a question. After BD, when H starts the affair with OW which he just met he became completely psychic and manic which lasted for more than one year. In the meantime he became Monster as well. How is that possible. Is it the OW fueling that kind of behavior. I guess she is a borderliner cause everything about this kind of personality I read in the articles from RCR I can relate to her. Besides that I once saw she texted him things like: 'OOOOOh please tell me this will last for ever' and things like that. And I can tell that he after BD had all the traits from a borderliner as well.
Anyone experienced this?
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Curious, at LIOK suggestion, how do you know when a mlcer is out of replay?
It's been over two years now. Are there definite signs to watch out for?
Is it when there is no "dead" look in his eyes?
Or when he "sounds" like his old self and not a teenager?
Will he ever accept any blame for the state of the marriage?
Edit
I think this will be best answered on this thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3338.0 - OLDPILOT
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what does it mean when he shows remorse for leaving you after the bomb drop...got into a convo where he's like I'm gonna see a counselor, by myself...its killing me the pain I'm causing you... its not you, its me...I have to see the other woman...
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Hi notmeitshim, [excellent name!]
There is often remorse & many of us have heard similar things. They are confused to say the least. Soon after BD many have regrets & a few actually DO something about it. Most, unfortunately, express their doubts, apologize, blame themselves & then carry on doing with ow as before...
From:
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc.html (http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc.html)
Words or promises spoken as a conscious lie may be inadvertent truths. MLCers leave, often saying that it is only temporary, they will be back. Some mean these words and are not aware that temporary is longer than their imagination, some want to mean them, but lack trust within themselves, and others are using them as words of appeasement with no honest intentions. Almost all are unaware of their rapidly cycling emotions and that they will change their minds in an hour, day, week or month--possibly multiple times.
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I would even go so far as to say, that if he does SEE a counselor, he will get the VALIDATION about leaving you, that he is seeking. He wants to be reassured that he is doing the right thing, that HIS HAPPINESS must take precedence. I can pretty much assure/guarantee you that he will get it from an individual counselor, heck, unless he see's a very PRO MARRIAGE counselor, he will get the reassurance he is seeking.
Even if he doesn't, he will ONLY hear what he wants to hear. Please do not get your hopes up that he is going to sort this out properly. That seeing a counselor on his accord is a good sign... it can be, but I wouldn't count on it.
Gosh, that sounded pretty DEPRESSING eh? Sorry... hugs Stayed
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Not a mentor but wanted to mention this.
My h started this back in 2005, left our home for about 9 weeks no known ow, I convinced him in that time to come back home, didnt know about mlc.
Well fast forward to Jan 2011 and off he goes again, life inbetween was good but definately something was brewing but I only see this looking back.
My advice here is let them go, they have to get through it and if they dont they will return at a later date without a doubt, they have to grow up and mature but sadly it will cause a lot of heartache.
Dont even think about them coming home until you are sure they have completed the journey through the tunnel or you will be jumping on the rollercoaster with them and it will be traumatic and could break you and your marriage if that is what you want to save.
Why is this ??? well they hurt you more with the cruel things they are likely to say as they cycle in their confused minds, they cycle one minute towrds you saying you are what they want and the next minute away from you saying they made a mistake it doesnt feel right and you are not what they want and when this happens if you cling they are likely to get nasty, then you will retaliate and well we know where that is going.
Now how will you know if they are through the tunnel, I dont know sorry, but it takes a long time I do know that by reading the strories on here, none of them come through in a few months thats for sure, if they do it wasnt mlc.
I know to the exact week when my h went back in or returned to finish, still cant figure where he was from coming back the first time but he certainly wasnt completely home in his mind, one thing that really stands out for me is that he wouldnt re do our marriage vows which was what I wanted to do, if he had been back completely I think he would have really wanted this being the person deep down that I knew he was.
Hope its okay for me to comment on here.
x
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New Question - What does it mean when your spouse returns to the replay behaviours that they exhibited at bomb drop? My husband seemed like he was moving along. Not quite there but starting at times to see the damage and not much anger was shown if at all.
Bomb Drop - 16 months ago
He just recently lost his parent and since then he has been running hard away from me and the children. The past two weeks, I have seen a return to his monitoring behaviour and things he did right after bomb drop. It confuses me. He had stopped this behaviour for at least 5 months. Now it is back in full force. The anger is not as strong as right after bomb drop but it is back and the blaming of me for all his issues is back. He can admit to this has been hard on all of us just not him.
Any insight would be great fully appreciated as I am at a loss and floundering....
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He's cycling back through it, and may continue to for some time. Unfortunately, 16 months is still very short in MLC, and it's not a straight path. :-\
My H BD'ed me 20 months ago, but popped his head out 16 months ago as well. I thought all of the Monster stuff was behind us, but he ramped it up again in September, with all of the anger directed at me (and we haven't even had contact since then). I wish I could give you more comfort other than to trust the process and focus on your own healing, but really, that's the most solid thing you can do.
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Crazyjourney your thoughts/opinions/input are just as welcome and valuable to us as anybody else. This forum is all about sharing our personal experiences. I am so sorry your h was not finished his crisis. I must agree with you about "letting them go". Like you, the further they are away from you the less damage they can do. Leave them to their misery, no point going down with them.
Ugggggggggh, the return to replay is horrific. Sometimes not quite as monsterish, but perhaps that is because we are not as sensitive to their abuse as we were the first couple of times. Don't let him monster at you. Treat him just like you would a belligerent child, ask him to leave, if he will not leave then you do so, hang up the phone, whatever, but do not allow him to treat you rudely. It was always easiest when it happened while on the phone, as you could simply ask them to stop and warn if he could not be polite you would hang up... and then do so, if he continued to be monstrous. Face to face is more difficult, but whatever you threaten, be sure you do it.
Hard to believe we are having these discussions about fully grown adults. :-\
hugs Stayed
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New Thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3356.0