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Our Community / Re: Reconnecting & Rebuilding 3
« Last post by Acorn on Today at 11:25:27 AM »
A quick answer to Morte.  (I will get back to you, Anjae and KIT, about your interesting posts.)

Morte, here are my answer to your question.

Material possessions, beyond food, clothing and shelter, have even less meaning to me than ever before. 

I do not sweat the small stuff.  ‘Whatever.’  I let go most little things. 

I’m acutely aware that life is short and things and people end.  So, Carpe Diem!

I’m not into fixing anyone or any situation.  Well, not much, anyway.

I’m grateful for what’s going on with our M and family, however - this may sound a bit ungracious - H no longer hold such a prominent place in my life as he did before. 

I did not have a sudden change on my view on life.   It came gradually.  As I walked along, paving my own way, I picked up lessons on the way. 
Our Community / Re: Wedding is tomorrow
« Last post by terra on Today at 11:11:49 AM »
mego I am holding you in my thoughts and prayers all this week, as I fear this for myself too. Just know that your identity has not been totally usurped. I know it feels like that and I know it’s easy to say and to think it is true, but it is not the truth. Just the worst feeling we have ever felt.

H and I are second marriage for us both. When his XW remarried may have been when MLC first reared up in earnest. She married the AP she divorced him for.

Their S was younger than yours, but not by much. H found out about the wedding the day after it happened. Our house was in crisis for a long while after that as h tried to understand how even S withheld information from him. To his credit, S was very sensitive to his dad’s still stung heart and I know he did his best to make it ok and not a big deal.

S was attendant at the wedding and had/has his own hurt and mixed feelings about it. But you have to know that when a child is this young, or even 50yo, it is damaging and stressful for them to be stuck in the middle. Adult children will have trouble with remarriages also. It generally does not feel great to have some interloper suddenly take a favored role in what we have always known to be “OUR” family. So it’s up to the parents as older adults to set the theme such that even the adult child knows it is fully safe to have its feelings and hurts and say *somewhere* and be heard and understood, and comforted.

You didn’t ask for a bunch of instruction so I hope this will come across as support for you: in any remarriage situation, my best approach anymore is to listen more than I speak, and especially with children (young, in-home, fully adult, or even peers older than me), let the child lead the dialogue. Vent here to us; you know we can take it, and maybe even help you shape it to a story you can move forward with. I agree it is hateful and irresponsible and all the worst things, for a spouse to leave the way you have been left. The thing is, we are still parents. We have got to shield and comfort and nurture our children, ongoing and especially when their family and sense of home is passing through really rocky moments like these.

I’m very isolated in my situation here where I live, so my best advice is if you cannot get out, get away, or be with nurturing others in person at this time, I hope you will do as well as you can for yourself today and in the grieving and feeling that will likely follow. This is one of those horrific times when maybe the only thing we can do to kick against it all is just to take very, very good care of ourselves, ourself.

If I were there with you, I’d make sure you had flowers of your favorite sort, a huge bouquet. And maybe go see a movie, something dumb or else something that would unlock all the tears and just let you cry.

And mego, I would cry with you. I do cry with you. You can’t ever be replaced; don’t let the enemy do this to your mind.

Your h is making a loud mistake. That doesn’t mean he is happy or that it is the right thing for him to do. The other person cannot fill the shape and the years and the total identity that is you. The facts of you remain. He has them and knows them. No way in hell does the other, and they never can, and never will.

I feel for you and will watch for your updates as we go through this time.
Our Community / Re: Wedding is tomorrow
« Last post by Mitzpah on Today at 10:43:41 AM »

I am sorry that this is happening, it must really hurt.

Nah has had this experience and so have other members of the forum. Sadly, it is not so uncommon.

I agree with Xyzcf and Nah about the message to your son. I don't think it is good at all, no matter what the intention behind it was. Your son is definitely old enough to know right from wrong. He loves his father and fears losing him, he wants to avoid bad feelings - he wants a father, no matter what. This is a time to step back from the mess, zip your lips and just let things go.

I know for a fact that my children appreciate the fact that I do not criticize their father. Over the years I have seen them make their own observations on his behavior and trust me, it is not only approval. I listen silently, if there is something positive to resonate with or I have a positive counterpoint in his behavior against some negative aspect they may be pointing out, I say so. I build him up, I don't tear him apart, I don't point out the wrong things.

There is enough negativity to go around, one of the things we can do is inject more positive vibes in our relationships, don't you think?

A bit like the popular adage - if you have nothing good to say... say nothing
Oh. Here’s a question.

In a lot of the therapy/addiction or maybe secular approach to all this — infidelity, affairs, etc. — there’s a focus on setting the couple up safely for the wayward’s full disclosure.

What do you think about that?

Is disclosure something you need or want?

I ask because while at the beginning (years ago now, like during the time when it was just EAs or crushes at work, and unexplained meanness with a few “I don’t have to tell you everything I think or do” moments) I did want to know or understand what was happening and why. Years ago, I found it somewhat easier to buy the “You’re jealous for no reason, I’m not doing anything wrong” if I at least knew who the person was, what they looked like, whatever bare information I could see for myself.

Instead I saw that he had a “type” then and that I wasn’t exactly all of it. But that helped me stay out of it somewhat, too.

I have never seen the live-in ow1 or ow2. I never got ow1’s last name out of h. I discovered ow2’s name on a bottle of medication for our good dog. She was listed as his owner. These past three years he has never once said how he met either of them. And somehow, not for lack of information but sheerly NOT WANTING TO GIVE THE OTHER ANY ENERGY AT ALL,

I have never bothered looking for them. What would I do if I found it all out, anyway?

I know we all struggle with similar things and in individual ways. I guess what I am asking is, if the therapy models aim for full disclosure and all questions answered, do you think that is an imperative? And if so, why?

It’s not easy or simple living without h, and/but it has been periodically much worse when he’s home and has brought the undisclosed energy with him. It’s bad enough that he was away with that person (or that one or the other one). I put my foot down about not giving AP airtime in this house or my life, my mind and thoughts, and it’s then that h bristles at me for not allowing him to “be honest”. And that if I will censor him, he will find someone else.

But if I ask for disclosure, it’s refused or skirted. And otherwise he serves it up in crumbs or drips or drabs, and I do understand that’s why therapy asks for one full disclosure and all questions answered in that carefully prepared support session. Getting bits and pieces of it when you least expect or want it, or haven’t asked, is really damaging (at least it has been for me).

I’ve had my fill of therapy and I’ve also had my fill of the MLC adventures. This morning I don’t want answers from him, and you probably know what I mean when I say I never want to hear or think about any AP or any other MLC figure, ever again. So is it necessary that we do?

I also get that it is a very pretty lighthouse feature if we are strong enough (or whatever?) to hear our spouse out when they are ready to reflect on these issues and want to discuss them with us. And I get that last year for me and h was a good try, sincere, but apparently really premature. I’m unwilling to do that again, for now. I don’t want any part of it.

I know I can ask this directly of folks like Shocks Sis and also LBS who have come out the other side, regardless of what MLC did. I’m putting it just here for now, until I figure out how to ask my questions without so much story along in it.

Is it imperative that we hear out the full disclosure; is that level of honesty or knowing or disclosing what makes us trust again? What makes us feel safe again?

Last night I had to search email archives for something, and among my results were emails from just post-BD in 2016. I wasn’t triggered by them, but it occurred to me that actually I would like to delete those. Not to pretend it never happened, but just to clear the space. It’s nothing I want to remember.

Can I delete those? Would you?

Thank you for reading, and any response is always appreciated. I know a lot of my questioning here is self-questioning (and often self answering as well), but it is good to see how other adults feel about it in similar straits, and from your responses and stories I do learn new ways or paths to take.

It’s weird to be at this time of life and feeling so lost.
Our Community / Re: Wedding is tomorrow
« Last post by New Day Rising on Today at 10:36:31 AM »
Mine got married today! I treated myself to a spa day with my friend from school.

My kids are attending, although a lot younger than your son. My son is best man too. He has aspergers and has struggled with anxiety about the wedding of the last 2 weeks. He was scared he'd cry. He also doesn't want to upset me. There's no way I'd try to make him feel terrible for attending. It's his dad!

On the other hand, I have received some lovely text messages from my ex's mum and auntie telling me they're thinking of me, which made me wobble a bit.

I'm also rather pleased it's pouring it down.

My ex told me he had called my son's school to let them know why my son wouldn't be in school. He didn't. The school called and I had to embarrassingly tell them that he wasn't in school as his dad was getting married.

I understand it's truly awful for you. I thought I'd be more upset today than I was.

Is there anyone that you can spend the day with tomorrow? Someone that will help you take your mind off things?

Give your son a big hug next time you see him and apologise for putting him in an awkward situation. Remember it's really hard for him too.
Our Community / Re: Wedding is tomorrow
« Last post by megogirl on Today at 10:17:57 AM »
No.  No, no, no, no, no.

I did not send the text to make him "hate his father."  I was in no way trying to make S16 feel guilty, either. 

It was sent because I fear he'll get the wrong idea - that was is happening is, in fact, unacceptable, regardless of whatever crap he may hear tonight and/or tomorrow.  In this day & age where people just looooove to use expressions such as "Modern family!" and "co-parenting!", I want him to know what's "ok" and "not ok" to do.  I have desperately tried to be the good role model and instill core values, as his dad has done the exact opposite.

How, and when, did our moral compasses become so broken?
Our Community / Re: Finding joy in the midst of heartache!
« Last post by Finding Joy on Today at 10:11:45 AM »
Thank You Father and Treasur!

I am going to begin to try to work through my feelings, but I am unsure if they make sense.

I feel the divorce is inevitable, I have accepted it.  Even if my h decided two weeks prior to the d he no longer wanted it, I would still have him finish it.  It is complicated.  I want my marriage, I want my husband to finish his MLC and come home.  I do love my h, I can forgive him in time, I do want a whole family.  I do have some compassion for him, but for now my own pain and anger usually overshadows that.

The truth is, I believe h coming out of Replay is at least 2 years away.  At a minimum.  I also believe the kids and I moving back to TX at the end of this school year is what is best for us at this point, and for my h.  He needs to feel our loss.  I cannot move to TX without a finalized divorce.  So financially speaking, I need this divorce in order for the kids and I to move forward.  I do not want a divorce, H is the one filing, but a divorce does allow me to feel some security, freedom to make my own choices(move to TX), the ability to move on if and when I decide I am ready.

So, the divorce will happen, and if my h decides he wants to work on things at some point, we will address that if it comes.  I have realized that so long as the kids and I are here, on a military base, I am living in h’s world.  I cannot move forward.  But, by us moving to TX, we can start over.  H says he plans to get stationed where we are moving(technically the neighborhood I will buy in is a 1 hour commute from his work).  If he ever does come home, we will call that commute another consequence of his choices. 

My hope is that when(and if) my h gets stationed near us in two years as he says will happen, that he will be close to being cooked and will want to come home(regardless of the d).  The kids and I will go about living our lives, and I will be ok either way.  The divorce will allow me to make decisions on my own.  It ends the financial uncertainty, it allows the kids and I a way to move forward.

I hate divorce, I do not want it, but my h does and we live in a no fault state.  At best I could make him attend counseling with me for three months, but that will only tick him off. 

So, while I hate divorce, I also hate sitting in FL waiting on a man who may or may not ever come home.  So, I am thankful that the d allows me and the kids the freedom to move home.  We need family and friends.  We need stability and roots.  We need love.  We need to be settled.

I do wonder, if my h does come home at some point, will I be willing to ever move with him again?  I could see me telling him no.  We are settled, we are done moving.  If you need to do something good for your career take a 1 year overseas assignment and then come home.

This whole situation changes what I am willing to do for him.  Before, we were a team.  He was the provider and I was willing to follow him every 3/4 years to wherever he got stationed.  That is until his deployment broke him.  I followed him here, knowing we were leaving behind the very support we all needed.  He did not care about my opinion.

Things have changed, I will be going back to work, the kids are older and have gone through hell by his choices.  I am unwilling to move them out of TX again.  Once I get them in a home, I hope to be settled for a very long time.

My d14 is so excited that we are moving home in 10 months.  She is in a much better place now.  Her anger is gone.

So, I guess I do not see the d as the end.  I think there is a 50/50 chance he will ask to come home in a couple of years.  But, by then I would say there is only a 50/50 chance I will let him.  Leaving my made up odds of us working out at 25%.

Then again, God does work miracles, so I cannot leave Him out of it.

H is set on us going through mediation versus litigation.  He is concerned his affair(s) will be made public(my own belief, he has not admitted to an affair).  I guess he needs to get ready to deal because I have no fear of court.

We will not be fighting over the kids, he says I can have them.  I do not see us arguing over visitation.  So really, the d is all business.  Just money and assets.  I laid in bed most of the day crying yesterday, which I never do.   I got stuff done until about 2pm and then I just needed to cry.

I love my h.  My anger has hidden my love for a month or so.  I know I can move on if it comes down to it in a few years.  I just don’t want to.  I want my H to chose me, his kids, our family.  I did look it up.  Something like 6 % of people remarry after a d.  I guess I will not be holding my breath.  ::)
Our Community / Re: BURNING MAN 12
« Last post by karmirtsaghik on Today at 10:09:54 AM »
I agree with ReadytoFix Watcher,

I also felt real sadness for you sons after reading your last post. I was thinking if it is that hard for you to break the cycle of lure-and-abuse, how hard it must be for them to be just them, and not controlled, orchestrated, and manipulated human beings, who have to walk on eggshells in order to not upset their mother. I really feel sorry for them. It is beautiful summer out, and they both are locked in that house playing video games.
No outings, no summer vacation, no driving classes, no sports activities.  Just seating inside, playing video games with three deranged persons. Can you call your youngest? Or the phones went to being blocked?

Take care Watcher. Stay strong.
Our Community / Re: My Moving On Story Pt. 4 - New Horizons
« Last post by Thundarr on Today at 10:06:45 AM »
Smooth sailing so far this week.  Waiting on the estimate from the rental company so fingers crossed that's not too bad or they're not too worried about it.  Things are great with GF and I and we're looking forward to a concert this weekend that's the annual one that we went to the night we officially became a couple last year.  It's hard to believe it's been over a year that we've been dating and that this is the second-longest relationship ever for me and third-longest for her.  We've both spent the vast majority of our adult lives married so I see this as somewhat of an accomplishment for both of us.  Things have certainly not always been smooth but we've both learned and adapted while also not losing ourselves in the process.  All in all, I think I'm a better person for it. 

I had my first therapy session this week and the therapist put things into perspective very well for me.  It's great to get an outside,  unbiased perspective on what we're going through and why we're going through it as even the best of us can't be our own therapist.  Just hearing someone tell you that what you're experiencing is perfectly natural given past history is very validating, and the fact that she was also the therapist for XW and D26 gives her unique perspective on the situation and my reactions to it.  We explored whether XW did in fact have a MLC or whether there was a personality disorder present all along that she masked by playing the role of Supermom.  The 180 degree turn from being the mom who went to every practice and game and was always there for her kids to the pseudo-mom who didn't care whether she saw her kids or not was maddening.  Of course at this point figuring out what happened with XW is a moot point as it's water under the bridge and I've moved on from that but at least hearing that it's not typical helps.  The therapist said she had her fooled for years if she was in fact hiding a personality disorder as she remembered her presenting as being all about the kids.  Given her experience and reputation it says a lot that she was either able to hide it from her or that maybe she really did change.  On another note, the therapist also saw GF after her XH did very much the same thing (she really is the best in our region) and said that even though she couldn't say anything about her due to HIPAA she was extremely happy that the two of us were together and praised GF as being a wonderful and very caring person.  GF will be going to my third appointment with me to discuss communication and boundaries with XW which really is about the only thing we argue about anymore.  Making progress slowly but surely. 

Peace to you all.
Our Community / Re: Wedding is tomorrow
« Last post by nah on Today at 09:48:02 AM »

My ex also married.

My son was there.
My daughter made the cake and hadn’t talked to me in years.
In-laws and former friends were there.

I saw pictures from mutual friends on Facebook (not looking, they showed up on my thread)

If you care about your son’s mental health... stop with the guilt, what exactly do you want your son to do about it? 

My son and his gf, left the house (he lived with me), and came back a few hours later in their jeans. I saw him in the pictures with a tux. I did not say one word, not that day and not once after. It’s better for everybody.

 I love my son more than I hate what his father is doing.

I’m sorry you are in pain, I get it, believe me, I get it.

The loudest scream is silence.
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