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Our Community / Re: The Positives XXI
« Last post by The lighthouse on Today at 08:16:04 PM »
I'm so sorry to hear the news about your friend Serenity.  I'm glad you could be there for her.  She is going to need your support in the coming months and I couldn't think of anyone more kind, compassionate and understanding as you.  She is in good hands.

I share your feelings about the Old Timers thread.  It's always the same people, and when some are people who so many look up to, I find it very unnerving and sad.
I had a full day today. Work was busy and they pulled me into a couple of different departments as I had a head start on next week's tasks, so there was not much for me to really do. I was working away when the boss decided he wanted me to sit in on a meeting about the company as a whole. I was not sure why, but I laughed and told him it was his dime. I sat and listened for a long time, until I didn't  ::) I hate sitting in meetings and not leaving with some sense of accomplishment. I threw out some observations and ideas and the boss started laughing. He told me after the meeting he needs someone who is a bit more seasoned, as the staff is very young. Youth is great, they have wonderful energy, but they are in fact green in many areas - areas that only come with age in that it has to do with experiencing things for awhile in the real world.

I felt good to have a calm, productive discussion with a group of adults. I needed this after the nonsense.

I rushed home to get ready for a wedding. I honestly was not looking forward to this one. It was going to be a very big wedding. I was able to wiggle out of the ceremony, but the reception was a different story, as it was a family wedding.

The wedding aspect was not bothering me. I am not anti marriage and weddings. But I have found I don't like big weddings.

My cousin's D got married. His D was the flower girl at my wedding. I was happy to go see her and celebrate with her, but I also knew I was seated at the same table as toxic aunt.

My sister and her H picked me up and we had fun. But, I have to admit that it felt a bit odd being there by myself at this particular wedding. At one point in time, Xh and I were insanely close to this cousin and his family. When my cousin's W left him for another man, my cousin's world came crashing down on him. He is still bitter after 15 years. When I saw him tonight, he gave me a hug and said I looked wonderful and he asked me if things get better. I told him I am finding happiness again. He smiled as he looked at his granddaughter dancing away on the dance floor, but there was an emptiness about him. He has held on to the bitterness.

The music, fortunately was incredibly loud, so my aunt could not get as many questions in. LOL

As the second hour rolled around, I found myself just getting up and going outside. My sister and her H joined me for awhile. I just wanted to go outside and stay out there. The lake was right there and it would have been so easy to take off for a hike. It was really tempting, but I didn't have my sneakers with me. LOL.

My sister and her H went in way before me. I was sitting and thinking about how odd it was to be at this event alone. It was not a horrible feeling. I was managing, but it still seemed a bit strange. I wondered about my own life and relationships years from now. It was all because I could see my cousin sitting there with his girlfriend, who he cares for, but I know he still pines for his X. I know he cares for his girlfriend, but he has never healed and let go. I know I am in a different spot, but it still made me wonder.

And strangely I got an answer of sorts. I was sitting outside of the hotel. It is a good sized hotel, but not a chain so it is a bit off the beaten path. The wedding was my M's side of the family. My F's side of the family would have no reason to be there, but all of a sudden, my cousin from NJ walked by. She stopped and started laughing. She and her second H come to that particular hotel to celebrate their anniversary every year. She and her H were getting ready to meet her older brother and his new wife.

The one cousin, she married a man she should have never married. She was young and he liked to party. He was a nice guy and fun to be around, but the partying never stopped and he became a full blown alcoholic for most of their marriage. She couldn't take any more after 20 years and divorced him. She moved away, started a new life and her kids followed her. She met her second husband and I have never seen her so happy. They are meant to be together, there is no doubt in my mind.

I had seen her at Christmas time and she had asked how I was. She said life gets better once we heal and she said I will meet someone someday. She was confident of this.

She then mentioned her B and his second wife were in town. She asked me if I had met her yet. I had a few weeks back. He too is visiting from another state. His W was full blown MLC and went for a divorce. He was devastated. He started dating 5 years ago and there were a couple of women he brought home, but this one was different. She had kids. My cousin had never wanted kids, yet when he met his W's youngest S (the other kids are off at college) he realized he had missed having kids. He is now a doting step dad.

I remember him thinking he was never going to find love again.

I thought about both of these cousins and how happy they are. They have both met their equals and people that make complete sense. They went through some duds.

I think there was a slight feeling of hope going through my heart and head. Maybe those things will happen for me one of these days.

I stayed a while longer, but my sister and her H wanted to get home. I was ready to go myself.

I let go of the feelings that bubbled up a tiny bit. I still would have easily had a better time hiking or just sitting by the lake.  LOL.
I am sorry to hear about your great-uncle Anjae.  At least now there is no more suffering for him. 

Your grandmother was lucky to have you care for her so she could stay home and not have to be in a care home. 

I agree, it is sad when old people have to end their lives this way, but for some sadly necessary because they don't have an able person to care for them at home.
Our Community / Re: The only way is up..
« Last post by The lighthouse on Today at 07:58:17 PM »
I'm sorry you finally got notice of the D Chookie, but I'm glad it didn't affect you too much.  I'm sure the gift of time and healing has helped.

I'm sure the situation with the spouse of the family member was awkward, but it sounds like you handled it well.
Our Community / Re: The only way is up..
« Last post by CanLetGo on Today at 07:52:30 PM »
Our timeline continues together Chookie, my D was in mid May, 30 days later was the final bit. I too was expecting a letter in the mail, when it didn’t come I emailed them and they advised they don’t send it anymore, it’s available to download from the website. Your lawyer will probably take care of it, but just thought let you know in case same happens for you. Sorry it has happened. Sorry you had to see spouse of family member at dinner. Thinking of you from the south of Oz x
Our Community / Re: Old Timers Thread 3
« Last post by The lighthouse on Today at 07:27:58 PM »
I've just reached the 7 year mark as a LBS so I suppose I could be described as an old timer now.

after 4 years on this board, my lived experience is that bullying behaviour is defended with the rationale that  “well, that’s so-and-so being so and so, and sure they are tough some times, but they also help, so that’s OK”.  Which basically excuses the behaviour because the end justifies the means.

But the end does not justify the means.

Particularly not on a forum where many people have already suffered relationship trauma, and have had to learn to discern signs of abuse, including emotional abuse.

Make no mistake, a personal attack is emotional abuse.

What’s a personal attack?
The Urban Dictionary has a pretty good definition, which identifies it as a logical fallacy that demeans your opponent instead of refuting their argument.

Personal attacks include challenges that question someone’s intelligence, values, integrity, motivations, decisions and so forth.

I think it is more than fair to say some of the conversation on the recently closed thread was replete with personal attacks.

I would also argue that using any means possible to get someone to do something in the way and timeline you think they should does not come from a spirit of helping others; it speaks to imposing one’s own will and choices on others.

It is stated over and over and over again on this forum that we cannot save our spouses: that we need to let them go.

It follows, then, that the same detachment to an outcome or timeline and letting go of the need to have LBS’ follow a particular path to healing would also apply.

There is tremendous room for many different views, and experiences and approaches on this forum.  But I for one continue to hope that behaviour that is unkind, judgemental, psychologically damaging or personally attacking and/or demeaning is seen for what it is without excuse or encouragement.

I agree with every word Onward!

The excuses and encouragement of a select few forum members from others saddens, sickens and angers me more than whatever was said to start the conflict.  Again, as so many times in the past, this all started with one person airing their views.  Coming back to defend and explain themselves should have been enough, but there are some that swarm to conflict like bees to honey.  They are always the same people and I doubt that will ever change, especially when people then come along to defend the behaviour.  Very sad indeed and I for one will never respect that.

NO-ONE can understand or judge anyone because we do not know or live anyone's lives but our own.
If someone is asking for support we need to give it.
If someone is asking for advice we need to give it BUT temper it and remember what a responsibility that is because the person maybe particularly vulnerable at the time of asking and also remember that we were once that vulnerable, even if we don't feel that now

IF someone is asking for 2x4's or even if you feel the need to give them and its what the LBS may need that we do it with sensitivity and responsibility and ensure the person is PREPARED they may be in boxing gloves not fur gloves..

And if someone is just posting and not asking for anything but just journaling then we have no right to go in with both feet and rip them apart because of some personal issues

Above all we must remember there are no points to prove should only be about supporting someone who is or has been through what any one of us may have gone through or are still going through
The outside world does not understand MLC , if we in turn don't understand or respect ,each other after all we have been through or going through then what hope do we have?
Temperance is a good word to bare in mind

Well said 1T!

Tone down does not equal not saying things, just changing the way/tone they are said. And learn to adjust the message to the situation/person. Something I wasn't good at all. I was as blunt as one could be, here and in real life. Can't say it helped much. If anything, mostly in real life, is caused damages. Preventable ones. A bit of diplomacy would had worked far better.

The whole you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. A concept that used to be alien to me, but that, in fact, works.

The big growth for me here was to be a little less like I used to be, but remain myself, findind more balance. It was not easy at all.

Now I think I am middle ground, going a little to my old self at times, and that is good.

Yes I have seen this in you Anjae and for this you have my respect.  I have never felt that you are deliberately being personal or blunt to cause conflict or to hurt feelings.  I have always felt you have good intentions.
Our Community / Re: Old Timers Thread 3
« Last post by Anjae on Today at 07:13:43 PM »

How is MammaBear, gosh she was funny...

Good for all we know.

I do not believe that any gracious god would not want us to grow and learn our entire lives, and I think that being an LBS opens the door to explore other relationships and learn from them, so that if or when you are ready to accept your spouse back, you will also share that, and KNOW even deeper that you choose each other, with all knowing intention, not because it is your only default.

The way I see it, one can grow both by standing for life or by being open to/have other relationships. There will be different types of growing, but both are growing.

I am not standing, never was. I dated and had a boyfriend. I didn't grow that much with those things. But I did grow a lot when on my own by choice. The choice was not because of Mr J or his MLC, it was for me. I needed time just for myself. The dating and boyfriend didn't brought much growth, I think they brought regress, and if I keep dating I wouldn't learn much since dating was more or less the same thing everytime.

There is a lot of growth possible on our own.

The dating was fun, very, very fun, but was keeping me stuck in the fun. The boyfriend was nice, but was a going nowhere relationship. Nevertheless, an important one and the necessary one at the time. If I learned anything with the dating and the boyfriend is that I become even more picky than I was before.

Most men don't have interest for me other than as friends. I quickly tired of them, so they would not do for something serious and long lasting.

I am not good to play mummy and nice wife, and many guys seem to be after that. I also don't stick around for people that can't intellectually interest me. And lets not mention physical intimacy. When you've had filet mignon most are MacDonald's burger. But I am certain the magical unicorn will one day show.  ;D

Not sure I would share much about the dating and boyfriend would I have reunite with Mr J. Probably all I would have to say would be: the dating was fun, the boyfriend OK, the physical intimacy not that good (or I may omit that part).

I am far more like you, Stayed, LP and Nah than like Mitzpah, Onward, Serenity and others. Or was. At a point, that me wasn't working for me anymore. Somethings needed ajusting and tone down.

Tone down does not equal not saying things, just changing the way/tone they are said. And learn to adjust the message to the situation/person. Something I wasn't good at all. I was as blunt as one could be, here and in real life. Can't say it helped much. If anything, mostly in real life, is caused damages. Preventable ones. A bit of diplomacy would had worked far better.

The whole you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. A concept that used to be alien to me, but that, in fact, works.

The big growth for me here was to be a little less like I used to be, but remain myself, findind more balance. It was not easy at all.

Now I think I am middle ground, going a little to my old self at times, and that is good.
Our Community / Re: Patience & Perspective chapter 3
« Last post by CanLetGo on Today at 06:54:16 PM »
Happy to hear your news FB and to hear you are happy - to be able to come out the end of this pain and feel happiness again is a blessing. When living it, it can be hard to believe it will happen. I hope things continue on well for you 😊
Our Community / Re: My life is not defined by a live-in MLCer 8
« Last post by seahorse on Today at 06:47:20 PM »
Acorn:  Thanks for the vacation update.
I know that things will continue in an upward trajectory, but like the stock market, there will be ups and downs.
I am not sure that your H is appreciative that his family didn’t kick him to the curb, but he will certainly be grateful one day...

Hugs and safe travels home.
Our Community / Re: Thread 31 - Taken by the Wind Part 2
« Last post by seahorse on Today at 06:41:37 PM »
Thanks Thunder, Acorn and UM for the clarity.

I likened “delaying it as long as possible” as dragging your feet.
I’m pretty well organized regarding knowing about financial standings.

Still following:  “if unsure, do nothing”.

UM - I’m sorry you’re going through this, but you have such clarity and wisdom that you are doing so well.  We’re all here to join you on this part of your journey.

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