[toughtimes]

The op is definitely the most difficult part to deal with and the fact that most of these Rs last so long makes it so tricky to think of them as a bandaid.

It appears that many OP are co-workers of the MLCer. I have watched a situation unfold at work of a wanna be OP pursue a married man. OP has gone out of her way to flatter and spend time with the object of her fascination and with persistence and the excessive ego stroking has indeed turned his head. It makes me sick but it is interesting to see how the OP operates. I realize that the OP wants the family life of the MLCer and will do just about anything to get it WITHOUT realizing that it is the family unit that makes the magic. The MLCer on his part caves in to the flattery over time. I think it becomes an irresistible ego boost. They probably rationalize it by telling themselves that the OPs threw themselves at them.

I absolutely relate to this, I thought my h was having an affair with someone on twitter but he told me there are much easier ways of meeting people than social networking, he had had offers! Those offers came from one of his employees, 23 just graduated. I saw the emails and she was really flirting, chat about Star Wars and films and soundtracks and an email where my h said sorry to being so maudlin last night! They were doing exactly what people who get together at work do, more and more chat that's not got anything to do with work!
I agree with anjae, some op are interested in the status, the contacts and the lifestyle that our mlcers can offer. My h and ow have benefitted from an exciting lifestyle, one that previously was about our family participating in that lifestyle. It's so sad.

Can someone explain a little more about the op being the mlcers mirror? Someone said that the mlcer often says ow is female version of them, that's something that I have thought. She has similar childhood issues, much more extreme than my hs but similar. She was anorexic because of her foo issues, mlcer knight in tarnished armour saving the broken bird anyone?

Also, I'm at the stage where ow and h live together and he has issued divorce from me. Can't see it as an affair anymore. This is mlcer addiction to op and their need for op to support them right?

Good thread here thank you.

[SSG]

Just wanted to start another discussion about the OP because I firmly believe that this is the worst part and the hardest part for the lbs to get past.

Unfortunately I don't buy into the fact that they are just bandaids they have far too much influence in this to be insignificant however there are a lot of things that have to be remembered at the end of the day in order to truly get past them.

I wanted to pint out a few things for others to think about in order that you can move past all of the above feelings. Don't get me wrong I still have days where I would like to punch her face, but I never would as I am well above that. And also for the record I in no way feel sorry for her, nor do I feel the need to forgive her. That takes effort on my part and she is getting no effort from me.

I met the ow in a bar one night and she ushered me into the toilets because he husband was with her and she was very afraid I would make a scene. I wouldn't but she didn't knew that and I enjoyed her discomfort if I am honest. When we were in there she said lots of things that really gave me her measure.   -    That's interesting that a man who is cheating on his wife is someone you feel is restoring your faith. Wow you must have met some $hit men in your time. Again no answer.

What she really meant
So that bar :

This is all about me getting back at the woman who betrayed me and I don't care how this makes you or your family feel, this is about me and my own feelings of inadequacy and poor self esteem.

She really dislikes men for the way they had treated her, it was only the attention that she wanted.

At work. This was about being passive aggressive and announcing how important my h had made her over his own wife. She was therefore number one. Fuelling again her feelings of inadequacy and poor self worth.

This person is significant in the marriage breakdown in my opinion, but 50% only. But they are nothing to worry about, not better than you in any way. In fact they probably will be worse for this experience not better. Don't let that happen to you, you will rise above it and come out on top, because you can sleep soundly knowing that you lived your lives right.

OP is significant in the situation, but not in your life.
So
X

Good Topic Superdog

I too believe the OW is more than a bandaid..at least in my sitch.  She was a good friend of mine (also married 25 yrs), did not even know my H.  After I read the FB messages between her and H, I found this:  "In 2009, when I first found you  , I knew you were the one for me.  I waited until you were lonely, alone, and then I made my move for you to be mine."

She took advantage of my H depression...waiting in the wings 3 years before the A started.  Before their first meeting, my H did not really know her..so I know she made the first attempt.  It must have failed, because she wrote how she drove home, across Europe during the night crying.  And then wrote "But all of that changed a month later".

Yes it was my H decision not to tell me he was having problems, it was his decision to cheat.  He never had a 'wandering eye'...so she waited and pounced.

I told H, when we could still talk, how if he decided he wanted to come back and work on the marriage I would forgive him. But I said, I will not forgive her.  He said, "It's not her fault".  I said, "She could have said no".  He said, "Well, yea, that's true" !!

She knew exactly what she wanted to do and knows exactly what she is doing now.  H and I are quite well-known in the dog world.  She would like to benefit and is attempting to take my place...but each time getting only the cold shoulder.   

Will follow this topic with great interest.

SG

[Songanddance]

Some of you might be interested in this I posted this on my fourth thread – it is extracts from a letter that OW sent me three weeks  after BD…. Fascinating insight into the mind of an affair down BPD or what.

“Dear ..
I realise that a lot has been said and written (meaning she has read H’s BD letter to me)
And I felt that it was time that I should write things from my perspective. You are under no obligation to read it but I wanted…. to cover the points in a rational manner and in a way that you could digest them at a pace you are happy with.

I would first of all like to say that I never set out to have any feelings for H ….but I am unable to ignore the force that has put us together and forged a union that has taken me completely by surprise.

I did not set out to hurt anybody and have not asked anything of H that he has not willingly given… I will support him in the situation that he needs to be in to be able to be at peace with himself whether that is with me or you………(long info about her finance and current H and her medical issues…)

……Family is one of the most important things to me and I am always the one to provide, my H and I agreed early on that we would not stay together for the sake of the children and I believe that you should stay in a marriage because you want to be with the other person…….you have to be someone that the other person wants to be with… it is not an automatic right because you have made vows…

I have always been quite private and found attention difficult……. In your H I have found someone where I am completely able to be myself…. He brings out the best in me and we are very positive together….. As much as it hurts me for my family to be broken like this…..

(she then expands on how “private” she is….and how she is leaving her H because he doesn’t want to join her “journey” of self discovery)
He is aware that his decision is a major flaw…. As much as he may wish to be he is not the right companion for me at this stage…I very much hope that I can continue my journey with H(mine)

I do not want you to think that I have taken these steps lightly or without a lot of soul searching… It is inevitable that people will be hurt but is it right (now paraphrasing because her sentence is far too long)  for l  one to sacrifice his (ie my H) happiness simply out of duty – it is very selfish of the other (ie ME S&D) to expect that.

If you would like to meet to discuss this then I am happy to do so.. I’m sorry if you feel that I have intruded but I am …. A helpful person and care deeply for others often to my own detriment.

I do not ask anything for me…..but I do ask this for H as it is tearing him apart and I will support him with whatever he needs.

So there you are - Affair down -possible BPD. One year on where are H and OW?
 Still seeing each other but about once or twice a week. H still at home - when he is out he now returns early evening. Not been away with her anywhere near as much.... Meh!

[bipolared]

These "reluctant " OWs are very interesting.  H initially had an email from his shutting him down as she did not want to be involved with married man.  However, as time went on I found more innocent "friend" emails and pics of his band on her FB page.  Kind of validated my theory that the refusal email was more of a "playing hard to get/look at what a good person I am" ploy.  Anyway, interesting to see how their minds work and this thread does make me feel slightly better.

[Medusa]

Great thread!

I believe the OP is a necessary part of MLC in order for them to destroy everything they had so they can figure out who they are. What better way to destroy marriage and family than to have OP? That is the ultimate betrayal.

Her significance in my life is profound. Even as I know she is in some ways reprehensible, as I know she's as messed-up as H, she serves as a kind of mirror for myself. In the early days before MLC diet kicked in, she was physically the antithesis of me. In thinking I could win H back by losing weight, taking better care of myself, etc., she became a catalyst for me to begin examining me. And there is her importance. Her relationship with H made me look at me.

Just thinking about her sometimes brings up significant emotions, but I realize, now, that most of those emotions are not about her, they are about me. I must learn to address my feelings of jealousy (which are rare, now) and the anger I sometimes still have. I use her to take my own temperature regarding letting go of him. I know I haven't done that completely...but as the anger, rage, jealousy, and feelings of inadequate compared to her fade, I know first that I am healing and second that I have more work to do.

[SSG]

Excellent post Medusa, just described me as well!

SG

[Rookie13]

Great post Medusa!

OBO, I hear you on the 'respect' thing..A very tough pill to swallow. This 'MLC jedi force' with the OP is a strong one in the beginning..One that makes people 'forget' about fellow humans beings and only themselves...Try as you may to 'scare them off' but eventually if she wants 'it' she will get it'.....in my opinion. SO many broken OP's in the world looking for 'anything' ( married people or not) who won't even think about having any 'character' when our broken MLCers come knocking...

[BB64]

I don't think there is a OP in my situation, well I don't know but clues point to 'not'.

Anyway, I'm not sure this would be of any help but I actually know somebody who is the OP. She constantly chucks him out, treats him like rubbish, moans and moans on Facbook and makes some incredibly embarrassing scenes on facebook because he won't introduce his daughter to him. I have lost count of how many times they have broken up. I'm not sure where he goes when she kicks him out, I actually don't know him at all.
I can tell you that I have known this woman a very long time and she has been divorced herself, has had a string of 'relationships' since her divorce and all have ended in court, police station or some form of trouble.
She is super intelligent, cute, charming, funny, generous....Has plenty of great quality but her low self esteem wrecks her life and that of others. Because of the messy relationship she has herself involved in, she now suffers panic and anxiety attacks and has heart problems (ironic!)
Anyway, today she posted this on facebook:
Would like to publicly shame my boyfriend for forgetting our 3 year anniversary. You'd better get comfy in that there doghouse boy cos you're gonna be in there for some considerable time. FED UP!

So this is just a snippet into the mind of a OP...

[Searching4Answers]

Can someone explain a little more about the op being the mlcers mirror? Someone said that the mlcer often says ow is female version of them, that's something that I have thought. She has similar childhood issues, much more extreme than my hs but similar. She was anorexic because of her foo issues, mlcer knight in tarnished armour saving the broken bird anyone?

I will share my understanding of this...........

Basically, the MLCer is attracted to an OP that is similar (similar in the way that they are broken) to them in order to fix/heal the OP which in turn helps the MLCer fix/heal themselves. The MLCer doesn't want to look at themselves but they have to - the OP is a mirror, the MLCer can see themselves in the OP.

I believe that my H was looking was for OP for quite some time - he is a bit of a wallower but managed to find a OP, well actually OP found him. In 2011, H had created an online dating profile - his profile showed him as 'in a relationship' and that he was looking for 'friends'. I think this was a way that H was able to get some attention and he felt it was 'safe' because it was online. OP contacts him in November 2012 - she made contact and continued to pursue. H met her at the end of November and then again at the end of December - BD followed the second meeting. H told me that he was going to have relationship with this OP whether I liked it or not and there was nothing that I could do about it. Apparently, he thought that he was going to have two women in his life It became physical in February 2013 - I think it might of have been earlier than this (gut). this went on for 3-4 months - they had some kind of tiff and H didn't talk to her for a few days. When he did resume contact she told him that she slept with someone else Of course this pissed off H. They broke up for about a month, started seeing each again in July 2013. In September 2013, I told H I was done. He made the decision to break up with her again so that we work things out. I asked him to send anything that she had given him back (he did with the expection of all of the cards she sent - she sends one like once a week). H told me in November 2013 that he wanted to be roommates, that too much had happened, blah, blah, blah. I think he tried to work it out so he wasn't the bad guy. I don't know who contacted who first but he starts up with OP again Dec/Jan 2014. H does not know that I know who OP is - I think he fears me knowing that he went back again. So he continues.
A little background on OP - when they met she was 49 and had just left her husband of 16 years because he wasn't giving her the sex/attention that she needed; H was looking for a 'sex toy' - match made in heaven. She also left her 10 year old daughter with her husband - MLC anyone? OP is well aware of me and has continued anyway. I know this will sound odd but I do find some comfort in the fact H went back to her, she is clearly an affair down and given their history it is doomed. H has said what a selfish person she is (mirror), that she is only out for herself (mirror) He has referred to her as a dumb wh*re and an unpaid h**ker Not really sure what will end this fantasy.

[Anjae]

Ok, ill bite and offer a more Draconian view! Two possible scenarios:

- if the OP doesnt know you or that MLCer is married = MLCer fault
- if the OP knows you or knows the MLCer is married = both at fault

Not that simple. Sometimes the other person does not know at first the MLCer is married, like Mr J OW2 (she thought he had broke with OW1 and had become single) but when the other person learns that the MLCer is married, sides with the MLCer and even helps the MLCer with lawyers, money, courts and fake addresses, like Mr J OW2 has, that type of other person is as guilty as the other person who knew the MLCer was married.

Anyway, it is always the MLCer fault and if the other person does not know they are married but after finding out stays in the picture not free pass from me to such other person. If the other person does not know the MLCer is married and when finds it out backs off, that is another mater.

I'm not certain I believe the MLCer is attracted to another person that is similar to them, that they try to fix the other person and the other person helps the MLCer fix/heal themselves. Pretty much all i can see other person doing is validating insane behaviour and prolonging MLC. In all these years since Mr J left I never notice he was fixing anything or that OW1 or OW2 were any sort of help.

Anyway, MLCers don't fix anything, don't heal and don't sort their issues while in Replay so OW/OM don't really help. They just hinder and allow the MLCer to have their way.

Not all MLCers have OW/OM.