[HeartsBlessing]

HB, thanks for assuring me that it's fine to ignore his texts & emails.  He keeps accusing me of "not working together" - again when I don't behave how he wants.  I need to be firm and confident in my dealings with him.

At one point I was reading your main thread, and the one thing I saw missing was firm boundaries; and started to say something about that; but hesitated at that time; now, I see things are getting worse and worse as time goes on.  This is because your husband is so very clearly out of control; and he's gotten worse about walking on you.

When boundaries are set; he is going to get very angry; because he doesn't feel you have the right to set limits on him; but HE DOES have this right to set them on YOU...this is a good example of how it's one set of rules for them, and another for the LBS.

The thing is, boundaries are definitely for YOU; but understand you set your boundaries; yet, be prepared to honor HIS, too.  MLC'ers are childish in this way; but firm boundaries CAN cause them to begin growing in various aspects; that is IF they don't decide to run away for good if they decide NOT to accept the limits you place on their behavior toward you.

Honey, you really don't have anything to lose in this situation; your husband is completely OFF the deep end, and needs to be reeled back in any way you could to call him down and put him in his place.

He's the one who wants a divorce, but he also wants you at his beck and call; and you do need to give him a healthy taste of what it's like to be divorced ahead of time.

He needs to get a sense of what life post divorce would be like, and it would involve NC between the two of you to begin with; so begin with that; and progress along, as you need to.

As long as he acts the fool; continue to stay NC with him; this is NOT punishment; it's to allow YOU to start healing; and to show him that he cannot treat you just any old way; and keep the drama going, if that makes sense.  It's also called consequences for one's actions....if you treat someone like crap; don't expect them to keep taking it; a boundary is called for to protect oneself.

Your husband is exhibiting some very bad behavior; and he needs to experience this "limiting" of his abusive behavior toward you.

Keep us posted on what goes on.

If you continue trying to deal with him; his actions are going to destroy what love you have left for him, if they haven't already.

Love to you,
HB

[Faith]

Thanks HB.  Can I ask you, how should I handle it when he interprets my ignoring of him and boundaries as "refusing to work together."  Should I come right out and say that divorce means no contact, or what would you suggest?  I've told him before that I want very minimal contact because it is better for me, and he accuses me of causing our kids "pain" by letting them see me treat him badly.  He tries to use the kids a ton.  This does NOT get to me at all as I know it's ridiculous, but I would love to have a one line answer I can just repeat to him when he makes these accusations.

As for my love for him being destroyed.  I believe it already has been.  He is absolutely set on divorce and has us over $30k in lawyer debt already with his court battle.  I can find no redeeming qualities in this man at all anymore unfortunately.  At this point my only hope is that he comes around enough to at least desire to care for his kids and give up this battle to try to leave me penniless.  For the first 18 months, I truly believed that God would bring my H to his knees, that He would reveal the changes in me that needed to happen, and we would be a testimony of a restored marriage and leave that legacy for our kids.  I wanted that SO badly, but it's not going to happen and I've had to accept it.  It still breaks my heart.  Thanks so much for your help and care.

[HeartsBlessing]

Thanks HB.  Can I ask you, how should I handle it when he interprets my ignoring of him and boundaries as "refusing to work together."  Should I come right out and say that divorce means no contact, or what would you suggest?  I've told him before that I want very minimal contact because it is better for me, and he accuses me of causing our kids "pain" by letting them see me treat him badly.  He tries to use the kids a ton.  This does NOT get to me at all as I know it's ridiculous, but I would love to have a one line answer I can just repeat to him when he makes these accusations.

You've told him so many times, you're starting to sound like a broken record, Faith...I really feel for you.  He's in MLC, and his rebelliousness is such that he's going to ignore anything and everything you say.

You might remind him that since HE'S the one who wants this divorce, then you don't want any more contact with him except for emergencies.  You need to put his decision BACK on HIS shoulders; and also remind him there are consequences for his actions.

Or you could say; and I believe this is what you need to say to him each time he starts up: "You wanted this divorce, now you can LIVE with the consequences of YOUR actions" keeping this on HIM; then shut him down; and don't reply to anything else he sends. take back control of the contact; and limit it severely...this is what came to mind, as I know he's the one who wants this; NOT you.

Do you really HAVE to talk to him, other than to schedule time with the children?  I would not talk to him any more than I had to, neither would I answer him any more than I had to.

He did this before, didn't he?  You would ignore him, and he would go crazy at times to get your attention...and because you were trying so hard to survive, you'd eventually give in.

He's a CHILD at the moment, Faith; and children will act up as much as they are allowed to before you "call them down."...well, giving him the same answer each time, and shutting him down is the equivalent of "calling him down".   

Yes, he will get angry; but then maybe he'll starting thinking about what he's doing/has done..but then again, in the shape he's in; who knows?   The Lord says your husband is totally out of control; in ways, he doesn't know what he wants, in other ways, he wants what he wants; and since you're not doing what he wants, he harasses you because he CAN.  He said that once your husband gets what he wants, he's going to find he didn't want it after all; but then it will be too late.

He also confirmed your next paragraph:

As for my love for him being destroyed.  I believe it already has been.  He is absolutely set on divorce and has us over $30k in lawyer debt already with his court battle.  I can find no redeeming qualities in this man at all anymore unfortunately.  At this point my only hope is that he comes around enough to at least desire to care for his kids and give up this battle to try to leave me penniless.  For the first 18 months, I truly believed that God would bring my H to his knees, that He would reveal the changes in me that needed to happen, and we would be a testimony of a restored marriage and leave that legacy for our kids.  I wanted that SO badly, but it's not going to happen and I've had to accept it.  It still breaks my heart.  Thanks so much for your help and care.

Just so you know the Lord DID work hard on your husband; but He's not going to "force" people to do what He knows needs done; and He won't tamper with free will, either.  Your husband didn't listen; when he heard the voice of the Lord, he literally "shut Him out" of his mind, and refused Him entry.   The devil then got a deeper foothold on your husband, and his behavior became MUCH worse within a short period of time.

Right now, EVIL is influencing your husband; BUT--who's to say after he gets what he THINKS he wants, he might not try to turn around.  Time is still on your side, here; and there is hope as long as there is at least a shred of love for your husband within your heart.

I've seen the Lord take control of various situations and work them out; He says don't lose hope, but understand your husband may NOT return to you; he has gone so far; done so much; and it's nearly destroyed you not just emotionally, but financially, and in some ways, physically as your health has suffered some from this.

Faith, the Lord will honor what you ask Him for; and if you ask that your husband be removed; He will grant this for you; as the damage is SO deep; and you've done all you can do, and then some to STAND for your marriage; and your husband continues to move further and further away from you....to the point he only sees you as "useful" to him; and someone to harass constantly.

If you ask Him to work on your husband, to eventually restore your marriage; He will also honor that request; said to remind you that this would be the HARDER road to walk; and it would take a LONG time; but also understand your husband STILL might NOT choose to return....

Free will and decisions play a huge part in what He can and cannot do.  Circumstances has a tendency to change a great many things in various situations.

The Lord is taking care of you and your children, Faith; He knows it's hard at the moment; but He IS within the midst.

I do NOT post things like this often; but it's all coming to me in a flood; the Lord is NOT pleased with your husband at this time; in fact He is EXTREMELY angry with him; and He says that your husband will pay a very hard price for all that he's done to his family and his wife.

Never discount the power of the Lord when it comes to His Mighty Hand...and pay strict attention to your Intuition because you will receive further instructions not long from now in regards to your wayward husband.

I hope this helps.

[Covenant for Life]

Hi Faith.

My H's D was final three months ago, but that has in no way affected my stand for a restored marriage.  God will give us beauty for our ashes and sometimes God might have to totally bury our dead marriage in order to bring forth the beauty of a new one.

We just have to trust that God knows what he is doing.  We cannot put a time limitation on God as He works in ways that are higher than our ways.  And, do not think that your husband will not be brought to his knees whether the D goes through or not.  Your H will reap what he has sown.  That is a promise from the Lord.  Walk with Him and He will vindicate you as He is a God of justice.  God sees how your H is treating you and how he has disrespected God, his marriage vows, and his responsibilities as a husband and father.  Your H will have consequences for the choices he has made - whether he believes that or not. 

So sorry you are dealing with his childish behavior.  Stay strong.  We are all behind you.

[NoRegrets]

Yeah what about the one:
"Someday the kids will have thier own lives and what are you and I going to do together??"

Right off the script. Mine said the same.

They're doing what RCR calls "reducing."  As in, reducing their guilt. 

Don't get mad, don't get emotional, just understand it for what it is.

H tried to blame me for not informing him of my whereabouts so he could "help" the kids when I left town for a weekend. (Our "kids" are older teens.) His blaming and spewing is an attempt to remove responsibility from HIM for repairing and maintaining a relationship with his children.  A friend informed me right away, "It is NOT your responsibility to manage the relationship between your H and his kids."  And I don't. I stay out of it, until such time as I detect that his behavior is imminently harmful to my children (apart from the disaster he caused by walking out on us with OW).

When he turned monster and sent me three angry texts accusing me of not helping him to help his children, I simply replied, "I do not stand between you and your children."  Then I left it at that. His relationship will be the result of his efforts alone, not mine. I will not be blamed for anything he does or doesn't do. He really thought about those simple words, and he knows I am right.

Further, I agree with the other posters. Don't get angry, don't get emotional, just define your boundaries. You are not his wife and thus you will not be responsible for caring for him when he does not reciprocate. It's very simple. If you know this to be true and you act like it is true, there is no reason to be angry. It's simply a matter of fact.

You know your H is irrational now. So be compassionate but firm. Be assertive.

If he says the clouds are made of ice cream, don't get angry. If he insists that you fly around the room backwards, don't get angry.

Simply tell him the fact, "I am not your wife. You do not get the benefits that go along with me being your wife when you are not my husband."

[NoRegrets]

I'm pretty much in NC with my H. I really prefer to handle all communication via text or e-mail so I can really think about what he is actually saying to me. Sometimes I have to read things two or three times, because I'm so used to accommodating him, interpreting for him, distorting what he says to minimize the poison, etc.

I think what your H means by "amicable" is, "helping me to not feel guilty about what I've done and continue to do...make it normal, make it acceptable by pretending everything is ok."

My H suggested, as did many of yours, that we all be friends--him, OW, and me. This would certainly be amicable, wouldn't it? That way, he could have his cake and eat it too, and everything would be so...amicable!

Somewhere he has read about these "amicable divorces" and it's all your fault you don't share his vision! Why, if things were amicable, you could be his secretary mommy, and OW could be his fawning toy! He could be king of the castle! 

Because YOUR feelings don't matter--YOU and everyone else is simply a fixture in his life.

Nnnnnnnnnnot!

You have a responsibility to live your life to its fullest. Unfortunately for now, he has chosen to excise himself from it.

I like what HB says about reminding him that the design of his life has been HIS choice.

Go to charging neutral.

Hang in there--you're handling this really well!

[Casey]

My take on the ‘amicable’ part of the MLC’ers script is that it means that they get what they want without any resistance from the LBS. We have all heard the words spoken to us many times, along with the ‘I hope we can still be friends’. The actual idea of being fair or reasonable, and so ‘amicable’ is a totally alien concept to them.

Put boundaries in place and consider what is ‘amicable’ to yourself, not the MLC’er.

[Mac49]

Faith:

My X was hell bent on destroying the love we shared for years it was only through the installation of "Boundaries" which protected my heart and feelings that have allowed me to continue to Stand and Shine.

Boundaries are to protect you. Being "amicable" has to be your decision not his. After reading your threads and the damage that your MLC'r has wrought frankly I'd have a hard time not punching his lights out.

Wishing you peace on your journey not of your making

Mac

[NewBeginnings]

I agree, amicable, is all about what they want.  My H told me after BD he wanted us to be friends.  WTH???  I cannot be his friend.
There is nothing amicable about our Divorce.  He wants to pay me very little.  He asked me for a list of my monthly bills once.
I sent him a figure that I needed each month.  He text back, you are f'ing crazy if you think I am giving you that much every month.
I did not reply but guess what, that is what he is paying me.  I just wanted to say ha ha to him.  But I didn't.  The final amount
has not been figured yet but my Atty told me it won't be less than what he has been paying me all these months.  Right now I get
3/4 of his take home pay.  When a couple if going through a Divorce, it gets really ugly because the H's don't want to pay usually.
Well I didn't not ask for this.  I married him for  life.   Now these are HIS consequences for his very bad behavior.  I really hate it being so ugly but H and his Attorney are the ones making it ugly.  Not me or my Attorney.

Mac49, that is exactly what I would like to do to my H, punch is lights out, LOL! 

Faith, I am thinking of you.  Our stories are so much alike.  I think we have the meanest H's and they are in such denial as to what they have done to us.   I feel as you do most of the time, that my H has destroyed any love I had for him.  But whenever I think that,
I always get that gut feeling that tells me to hang on, things will get better.   

Take care.

HUGS TO YOU
NB

[Mitzpah]

Faith,

In the short time I have been on this board, I see changes in you. You are much stronger than you were, much more in control of yourself. I just read HB's words to you and I am impressed. What a message there...

My h also is suggesting an amicable divorce, he suggested it over a month ago in an email and asked me for document numbers which I sent back to him. He has not gotten back to me yet about it. I agree with what people have written here - it is all about them and how they appear to themselves and imagine they appear to others
My kids have also suffered at school, but they have come through... what this does to our kids is awful and I think that one of the things we as LBS's can do is focus more on them to help them over the hurdles as our MLCer is obviously not up to it. It is part of being the 90% part of the marriage at this time in our lives. The time that has been gifted to us can be used in this manner too!
I have no contact with my h. really, although he still visits the kids at home and has lunch there when he feels like it, obviously, it is always when I am not there! He also has free access to the kids, mine a bit older than yours so I can't really interfere.
Faith, you can do it with God's help - the battle is His!