[Buggy31]

Oh!  I question this because I see a lot of mental illness issues in the family that have gone undiagnosed due to DENIAL.  It makes me think that his MLC could be a long one because there is a pathology on top of everything else.

[Courageous wife]

Somehow I missed this thread.

OW in my story is early 30's (H told me early 40's)...has been in abusive relationships according to H.  I am not positive but believe that she has never been married.  Belongs to a strict religion requiring her to wear skirts and not pants.  Her father died almost 10yrs ago.  Has had weight loss surgery.  Is shorter than me according to my kids (I am 5'2") and shops at the health food store.  No children and supposedly can't have children.

I too have worried about my H feeling so guilty that he'd never forgive himself...IF a time comes where he tries to reconnect, I hope that I am at a place of true forgiveness for him.  I think that if his family can show him that he is worth forgiving then he may eventually be able to forgive himself.

[MarkedandHealed]

WAIT! She belongs to a strict religion where she can't wear pants - but she can GET INTO the pants of a MARRIED MAN?
I'm floored.
How could she reconcile those two in her mind?

[stillhere]

  Belongs to a strict religion requiring her to wear skirts and not pants. 

This is the kind of thing I can't understand sometimes.  People that say they are religious yet get involved with a married man.  My H's OW takes her kids to church.  Apparently she has learned nothing there.   I suppose it's the difference between true believers in a Higher Power and those that just talk the talk.  It does infuriate me at times. 

[Courageous wife]

I know...I have heard that she has not been going to church and that her family is very upset...that has been awhile ago..not sure what the status is now.

[MarkedandHealed]

It's the baby syndrome. You know when you hide your face from a baby, you disappear to them? Or so they theorize, anyway. IMHO OW will hide her face from God, and then He disappears and thus she is excused from her sin. Or else they say "it just FEELS right, so it can't be wrong" or worse, "He'll forgive me."

Yeah. That.

[sambriony]

ow in my sitch 37.2 kids,one special needs and the other a boy never out of trouble.Never worked day in her life survives in a mucky 2 bedroom flat and lives on social security benefits.My H said she had a hard life..yeah cos thats what she chose.Her H cheated on her, she divorced him and has been with several men since including many of my H work colleagues.She def has a personality dis order and is manipulative and focused on getting what she can get.Shes not ugly but not a patch on me in style,looks and personality.Her tongue is crude beyond belief for a woman I have been told.Was chasing several men at the time I found out abt their A.H did apologise but still with her after a year.H has had no ctc with his girls for almost a year.

[HeartsBlessing]

Could one of these PD be coming to the surface of an MLCer?  In other words could a mental illness be buried within the Shadow after being hidden for most of their life or expressed to a lesser degree than what is seen in MLC?  Could MLC be a time when such disorders are revealed?  Will the MLC help to heal such things?   It seems like most PDs are the results of emotional wounds.  How would you know the difference btw a true PD and an MLC PD?

MLC brings out what RCR was detailing..it is the result of the "emotional crisis" the  MLC'er is dealing with...hormonal changes can bring out other things, such as mood swings, and irritability within the MLC'er.

A true PD has been that way for most of or ALL of their lives..it is NOT something that comes on all of a sudden..there is a definite pattern to their behavior.  A kind and gentle man for x amount of years suddenly turns selfish, self serving; acting crazy, etc,...there is an underlying EMOTIONAL problem that brought that on; such as sudden death of parents, or a major life change...so if you see the pattern, it leads directly back to the cause of the behavior.

My mother, for example, had emotional problems for most of her life; a pattern that persisted, and actually got much worse during her time in The Change..her symptoms NEVER went away; they were all part of the pattern of her life.

I keep forgetting that some of you have not dealt on an ongoing basis with emotionally disturbed people..and wondered at first about the question asked about telling the difference; I deeply apologize for forgetting that.

I wish my mother had not been the way she was, but she was, and I accepted it for what it was, right on up until her death in 1999 at the age of 53.  I was told that she'd gotten hit in the head with a brick; when she was little, and that might have contributed to her problems...she had a scar on her forehead that was indented from that brick, as I remember.
Yet, maybe it WAS emotional, as my sister next to me is showing strong signs of some of the SAME problems my mother had, and I'm not affected that I know about...they DO say the crazy people don't know they are crazy..they think they are sane....could that be ME?   

Anyway, the symptoms clear themselves as the MLC'er works his/her way through the tunnel, focusing in their issues, healing their childhood wounds; coming forward and "repackaging" themselves in a wholly different way than they were before the tunnel.

You may find that the exited MLC'er who is going into the settling down process will exhibit some behaviors that were NOT there before the tunnel; and you may find that they may "keep" some of the "old" mixed in with some of the "new".

Some people change completely..and they are totally unknown coming out.  But, NO ONE is EVER the same coming out, as they were going in, as the MLC "burns" something out of them, extracting a CHANGE within..it is THIS change they are fighting throughout, until it is finally accepted within the final stage of Acceptance.

This process is also a crapshoot if/when they get that far..and divorce instigated by the LBS may STILL happen because they cannot accept what the MLC'er has become..remember the journey we talk about for the LBS?  This same journey not only shows the LBS the reality of themselves, but it ALSO shows the reality of the MLC'er as they REALLY ARE/WERE within the years preceeding the crisis.

To continue to love someone after seeing them for what they really are/were is rough; and a very tall order to fill..and sometimes it is TOO much for the LBS to handle after all that's happened...that is why I have presented the possibility of the LBS not being able to accept the MLC'er for what they are..and they end up breaking down the marriage, also.

The journey was long and hard for me, and I had trouble, at first, accepting what my husband was becoming...it was a process of getting to know him all over again..but not only that, he had to get to know ME all over again, too.  I wasn't the same person coming out, either.

I guess I must have done a HUGE hijack, sorry.

I didn't feel like describing my husband's OW; I think I've already done that before on another thread, and have no wish to write this down again....I knew what she was, her part in his issues, and the issues she had, but at this point in time, she no longer matters in the greater scheme of things to me...knowing what these OWs are and any details you've gotten from snooping or other means, only deepens the pain for the LBS, and is not worth obsessing about....although she is part of the issues within a MLC'er; she is but a SMALL part..and once she's gone; all that matters is helping your husbands come forward within the tunnel, IF you want to hopefully, bring your marriages back together at a later time..

It is enough to know your husbands are betraying you; and that is enough pain to deal with without buying more pain in the way of knowledge you don't need to be looking for, anyway.  Your husbands may tell you things, and that is painful in itself.

I can see where, in his own twisted way at that time, my husband, at least was trying to protect me from knowing..and I have to give him SOME credit for that; as in his own twisted way at that time, he still loved me; and though he was sneaky, at least he DID end it..and didn't let it get any farther than it did.

And though, I got very angry and jumped him several times, it didn't deter him from coming back..and it takes MORE strength to come back, than it does to run anytime..and again, I have to give him credit...he HAD to know it was going to be hell with me and he was going to have to deal with it; but he came back anyway, and faced my anger...that's strength he'd gotten from somewhere that I hadn't known he had until then.

It was ALSO evidence that God was working within the situation..and after a time, I stopped looking for anything in regards to the affair, as he destroyed most of the evidence surrounding it at a later time, just before OW Withdrawal was finished.

It was what it was, and I can't change it, so I accepted it all..and though I remember it, it no longer hurts me.

I guess the point is that all things work to the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to His Promise..parahrase from Romans 8:28, and I saw that play out in my life many times during his MLC, and during my transition.  God knew what He was doing; and I trusted that He knew what He was doing..although sometimes, I interfered in it a little more than I should have, and paid consequences for my interference several times.
Have a good one.

[Rollercoasterider]

Could one of these PD be coming to the surface of an MLCer?  In other words could a mental illness be buried within the Shadow after being hidden for most of their life or expressed to a lesser degree than what is seen in MLC?  Could MLC be a time when such disorders are revealed?

Thank You HB, I was going to say what you did and thus will confirm it with a paste instead.

A true PD has been that way for most of or ALL of their lives..it is NOT something that comes on all of a sudden..there is a definite pattern to their behavior.

Personality Disorders show themselves usually in adolescence and by the early twenties at the latest--and that is probably late.
But we all may have tendencies when uder emotional distress. Being an OW may bring out BPD behaviours--or maybe in-fautation hormones do it so they may arise even in a legitimate new relationship. MLCers display a lot of NPD attributes--during the crisis and especially during Replay.

[Buggy31]

I see and am reading a lot of stories on the board where the LBS are struggling with a ? of whether or not to set an ultimatum about the affair.  What is the differance between setting an ultimatum with your MLCer and setting a boundary? 

Isn't OW exposure and consequences a neccessary push for some MLCers?  I know its hard to do and accept but it ends the fantasy particularly in an EA.  What might be some examples of when to do it and when to not?