[toughtimes]

Thinking back to my sitch, 2010 H starts business, more and more time devoted to it, 2010 Xmas h was very frosty (it was a crappy Xmas with my family but he really snapped at me and was mean, I was very ill with a cough and cold and I was breast feeding a baby poorly with a terrible cough and cold too!). Then throughout 2011 he was simply extracting himself from the family, increasingly late nights at meetings in London with his new colleagues, spending our money. Then hints at affair in early 2012, mean mean things said and finally EA and PA too I think until BD2 in March and then BD3 in May and he left, sort of!!! So then the replay behaviour goes off the scale ... Skinny jeans, white trainers and a silly trendy white watch! Said he was selling his business for 50 million!!! My therapist asked if he was bipolar.

So it's happening before BD but we are confused and inane cases suffering with depression because we feel our spouses pulling away and behaving in strange ways, saying odd things.

Is this similar to most of us? It's all so difficult.

What I find hardest is the lack of overt signs of depression, before he left he said things that reflect that but he was running to his new work 'family' which includes the young alienator. Now he appears more settled and happy. Everyone in his family seems terrifically fooled by his mask of successful businessman who has had to make a very tough decision.

I guess I just wait and see.

[Superman]

Albatross & Anjae

I do go back and forth about this all the time. I guess we all do. Thanks for the input

I've experienced a lot with w over the years but this takes the cake. I figure I'm at 2 years of replay now with no end in sight. So I march on with the kids. I have left the door unlocked....

I'm glad someone trusts the process...some days are better than others.

[Albatross]

I'm curious about a few things:

1. If replay starts long before BD, why do we say that replay averges 2 years +?
2. What signs/symptoms would suggest replay prior to the OW/OM being around?
3. Does the narcissism get worse futher along in the tunnel?

Thanks again for this topic; I am learning a lot.

1. BD IMO is when MLCer left home or LBS find out EA and MLCer left home or stay. Anyway bomb drop is like name said catastrophic event for LBS, so LBS must spot that All other before bomb drop MLCers can hide very well and LBS can spot beginning of replay or not. In my case I spot beginning of replay because was so obvious for me. She go into depression after her birthday and wont celebrate New Year, we stay home alone and watch TV, we kiss each other like brother and sister and she start to cry. I ask she why she crying ? She refuse talk about, silent no answer.

2. Symptoms are start to annihilate self from wold, covert depression. And start to detach emotionally in my case from spouse. Shadow become so powerful that they cannot ignore it anymore, so MLCer turn inward to protect self from shadow, they know that something very wrong with them.

3. Narcissism escalate when MLCer get sky high in relation with alienator. EA build in them adrenalin, hormones, they are infatuated. After they realize that no any future for their EA or (and) EA losing power in dynamics their narcissism start to diminish.

Nobody mention that they become also hedonists. Doing only things which make them happy.

[Anjae]

Another thing is that medical pros can't for sure diagnose PD without family members.

Anyway 10 % of general population have some PD ! Imagine how much is undetectable ! Go figure !

I know. Even with family members help it is difficult to diagnose a PD. Or some levels of a personalty disorder. For Bipolar (a mood disorder) on average it takes 10 years to get a correct diagnose.

Not sure if 10% of the population has PD... would have check my neuroscience classes but currently I don't have access to my computer files.

3. Narcissism escalate when MLCer get sky high in relation with alienator. EA build in them adrenalin, hormones, they are infatuated. After they realize that no any future for their EA or (and) EA losing power in dynamics their narcissism start to diminish.

Not all MLCers narcissism star to diminish when the high of the affair lowers. The ones, like Mr J, that have another source of narcissism and constant high don't have their narcissism diminish because the affair is slowing down or ends. But for many MLCers the big high is the affair.

Nobody mention that they become also hedonists. Doing only things which make them happy.

I think it has been mentioned before on the board that they become hedonists. But I would not say the only do things who make them happy. They do things who provide a high and a blast. Happy is kind of a remote thing for an MLCer...

[Albatross]

1. STAGE: Can't stand anymore current life. Person thinks that losing sanity. Self and persona become separated. Persona become true mask, artificial, unreal. That is IMO beginning of replay. Means Self still maintain relationship with world over persona but it is phoney. MLCer now go inward and disconnect from world. MLCer still operate in RL but in minimum. He, she going into covert depression, escape from real life. In my case, she start to refuse touching hugging, and closeness, but we still have sex, that was totally phoney from her side, just for hiding from me her problem - alibi.

2. STAGE: MLC-er start to regress in time and go to Youth in reversal order from present to past, revind life in time when they was happy ! They stuck then in teenage age. Wanna live new life, that is the reason why is this stage called REPLAY. Also they sink into depression gradually because of shadow surface so closer and closer. Then they escape from home, in my case she look "for drugs" to escape from shadow, being on places where surrounding make her happy narcissistic supply = hedonism, ego centrism. Wanna be in places where people will compliment them, on that way they ego rise and they "feel better" escape from depression. Fantasy world. Doing all what make "them happy." But hat is just desperate trying. She try to be out of hose and family as much as it is possible.

3. STAGE: Nothing of that can help them. They are desperate, lonely - PARADOX, they cut of self from life and later they will say that their life sux and spouse sux and they was SO LONELY - come on ! So, they need romance, and they start to seek for alienator. In this phase they seek and find alienator and start to build EA. Hormones and adrenalin kicks in and they find quick fix for problems. Ego start to rise. Alienator is under the wings.

4. STAGE: They finally reach point where is impossible to maintain two lifes and this is BOMB DROP, they ego rech sky high ! In my case she refuse sex and then I become suspicious about EA. I found internet alienartor. How huge their fantasy is that my W in their convo on FB they exchange more then 7000 lines 3 months ! Also she have notes on paper where she write totally different about them. How she imagine their convo, fantasy about fantasy.

5. STAGE: End of replay begin when MLCer finally get is that will be nothing from his fantasy world, no more narcissistic supply which give them antidote from depression.

[31andcounting]

Albatross this shows me "simply" that myH is at stage 5....maybe into acceptance. I dont know that it means he is done ?? I hope he has completed all the steps and doesn't go back again
Replay is hard and a long process. I will continue as I have been a be the person I have grown into.   In God 's hands.
31

[OldPilot]

These stages may not always go in this order.

This may have been the order for your MLC'er but others may proceed in a different order.

And my belief is that they may repeat some of these stages after bomb drop too.

[PatienceGalore]

It's very interesting to see the stages. I think my H is hovering back n forth between stages 4 n 5 . I'm hoping to see stage 5 completed before I have to take out a Zimmer frame!!!

[Dreamer]

I am almost 1yr since BD.i know my H was with alienator for 1yr previous. He now states that he does not want to keep her a secret anymore. But everyone knows about her. He says I just don't get that he wants to be with her. How do I know if he has reached liminality or this awakening and this is really what he wants. I see him about 1time  a week for a few minutes. She is 31 yrs and he is 59 yrs. I still think she is after what she can get, but he says no

[Albatross]

These stages may not always go in this order.

This may have been the order for your MLC'er but others may proceed in a different order.

And my belief is that they may repeat some of these stages after bomb drop too.

Totally agree. This is stages which my wife going trough. I hope that she hit liminality because she show no more monster. Maybe she will cycle back, I will see.