[In this for ME]

One thing I know woke him up some is both of my D's had a meltdown in front of him.
I don't think the impact of what my H was doing could really be apprecated by him until he saw it for himself. Even if I tried to descibe it to him I don't think it would have been as effective.

I had already been through three meltdowns by D17 and D14 held her feelings it in until she heard the news of the OW moving closer to the house we all used to live in  then she went up there and screamed, yelled, and cried at him.

Up until then when he suggested to D17 to meet ow I pulled out the MAMA BEAR big time as D17 had been crying for three days not wanting to meet her. I was livid and screamed at him on the phone to tell her she did not have to -ever -which he did. It was the first time I'd done that since I left at the end of June this year.

 I told him he needed to stop tormenting these kids. To which he replied indignantly "I'm not tormenting the kids!"   

[Trustandlove]

It's nothing that dire.  Really I was just wanting to find out how to approach such a discussion without piling on any more guilt; I've even asked him how I was supposed to talk about son without making him feel guilty. 

At any rate I have come to the conclusion that less is more; if the talk happens I'll just present the situation as concisely as I can and ask how he thinks it should be handled. 

I can't tell him much about what kids say or do in this regard; when he was here for 4 days he saw some for himself, that is what triggered his interest in son's situation in the first place. 

The only reason that anything needs to be talked about in the first place is that son is starting to try to play us off one another, and I don't want that. 

[justkeepmoving]

The first and only time that my H has talked to his daughters since BD a little over 2 months ago was the day after he told me.  He came back home to talk to the girls and my oldest let him have it with both barrels.  Told him he was acting like a selfish child and none of us deserved this.  My younger daughter sat in silence crying and let her big sister speak for her.  Since then NC by H or daughters.  I think that my H is so ashamed and guilt-ridden that he can't muster up the courage to reconnect with his daughters.  On the other hand my girls say they will not initiate contact because he is the adult and the responsibility lies with him.  As for me I caught wondering what the h.. happened to my close, loving family.  UGH !!

[LettingGo]

T & L,

You are complicating this too much... Just say "I would really appreciate your opinion on something.." and then ask him what he thinks you should do in the situation with your son. It works like a charm on my husband! I'll bet yours will step right in to support you without even knowing it...

Validate whatever he says with "that's a good point, you might be right, I never thought of that" and you will be pleasantly surprised. 

[Trustandlove]

You are complicating this too much..

Yes, I hadn't intended for this discussion to go this way...    

What you suggest is exactly what I intend to do -- I had also come to that same conclusion.   I just wanted to avoid piling on the "toxic guilt". 

Let go, let go, let go has to be my mantra.   

[justkeepmoving]

I have two mantras - NO EXPECTATIONS / FAITH & LOVE.  Now I just need to walk the walk !!

[xyzcf]

Mine are detach, detach, detach, no expectations and live as though he is not coming back. The last one I find hard to say with any enthusiasm!

[HeartsBlessing]

What in the behaviour of the LBS would be that which doesn't hold them accountable?  Some examples would be useful.....   I know I have always stated that this is his decision; is any of this applicable in the examples that I'm using, and how would that be done?  Is there anything specific to say (or not say) when talking about kids?

If they do/say something you don't like; say something about it...that is one way of holding them accountable for their actions.

Don't walk on eggshells; and let things pass, if you don't like what they've done/said.

I don't have any specifics, I'm sorry to say; I simply listened to my intuition; and followed it; there WERE times within the crisis when he said/did things that I did NOT like; and I was prompted to say something, even if he came back at me...not liking what I said/did in return.

Boundaries won't work within the crisis, simply because the MLC'er is not in the state of mind to accept them in the early part of this.

Yet, boundaries are for YOU, not them, anyway.

Once you get a good handle on what is happening, your footing should become more sure; and you should get to the point where you don't care if they stay or leave....yet, this is not a point where you are angry; you are simply firm in your stand against whatever it is you don't like or care for hearing.

People will treat you as you ALLOW them to; and MLC or not; no one should put up with being run all over; there comes a time when you do have to confront, and set a boundary; mostly for your self respect's sake.

Yet, remember that once you decide on a course of action, you LET GO of the consequences; as for every action, there is a reaction, and for every action there is a consequence.

Again, you KNOW your husband better than I do; and you have a better idea of what will work, and what won't work in his case.

Your husband is far enough in this, TAL; that you don't have to walk on eggshells with him any longer; and you'll need to call him on whatever bad behavior he exhibits, especially, when it affects your children.

You've nothing more to lose; it's already been lost; EVEN though he's not divorced you or you, him.

I'd been thinking hard about this for quite awhile...and I still don't have adequate understanding as to why he's still "out there", but hasn't divorced you or made any move to do so.

I think this falls in line of "doing something different".

Something to think about.

[Trustandlove]

I guess that means that I have to say something about him having OW with them on holiday.....  I had kind of decided not to; perhaps because it just felt so pointless.  It's not going to make any difference.

More on my own thread....

[justkeepmoving]

I really don't know if my H has any guilt at all.  I haven't spoken with him directly in the last month or so.  I'm sure he does but I know that he always avoids his feelings.  Right now I'm mad at him because he "forgot" to send me my water bill.  I'm sure when he got it he just put that out of his mind too.  If I hadn't called the water co. myself our water would have been shut off next week without me knowing about it. 
I've thought about calling him and reaming him but I won't because it would only make the sit worse.  I just need to move foward and take care of myself and my daughters.  So frustrated by his lack of caring about what's happening with us while he's gone.