[MarianTheLibrarian]

Thanks Thunder.  I really have no idea if they're happy.  I really don't have much more than social media to go by at this point, and let's face it, everyone looks happy on that.

I've done enough that I'm not sure I want him to come back, actually.  That's not what my question is really about.  The more obvious aspect is that I question if it was really MLC or something else.  I think on a deeper level, it's more about struggling with a sense of order in the universe, if that makes sense -- the idea that this kind of recklessness is completely justified by the "happiness" it produced. 

They've only been married since '16 -- in mentioning the 8 years I counted from the beginning of the affair, or at least when H began staying with her, approximately.  As you said, one would indeed hope that it would be apparent if it were an unhappy situation, but there are less than obvious reasons people stay. 

[OldPilot]

  I really have no idea if they're happy.

People leave relationships because they are unhappy so the question is why were they unhappy?

Love is a choice and when one person stops choosing to love or choosing to be unhappy this is the problem for the relationship.

Whether it is MLC or not the unhappy person must decide that they are going to get better or their will never be a reconcilliation of any type.

All we can do is to become the best version of our selves and live a good life.

So what does that look like for you?

[Ready2Transform]

I'm happy to move this to my own thread if it's better suited there, but I wanted to chime in as someone who has similar stats (BD 2011/D 2013/M to OW 2015) and sought a lot of data in the same way over the years.

1) Is marriage to the affair partner more likely in an MLC situation than a typical affair?

I've not seen anything that confirms this, but it does seem as our membership has grown here, more MLCers have married their OPs. That's just going on what I've sensed from reading story threads, not any numbers I've tallied. There are more children being born of the unions, too. All of that may just be because there's a bigger sample of people from when I first came here in 2012.

2) Are there any known instances of someone marrying the OW/OM and then divorcing them later?

It's complicated.

From MLCers whose spouses are on this forum? I can't think of any who have divorced the alienators once they are married to them. In real life, there are certainly examples, but they usually lead to more marriages to other people, not a return to an LBS. I do know one man in my industry who shared his story with me back in 2011. He left his wife and kids for another woman, had kids with her, then later divorced and remarried his first wife (they're still together, running a business and very happy. He'd told me his wife had been a stander, and it was never an issue to remarry, but the kids from the first marriage were a tougher hill to climb. He said he expected winning back their respect was going to be his life's work). But that sample of one has not in any way mirrored my experience. I still find it to be a beacon of hope for how good people can find their way back to not just their families, but to themselves.

To further complicate the answer about divorce and the forum though, there are LBSs here who were either the affair partners or second marriages without affair being present who have seen their spouse return to the first marriage. Should those numbers count toward divorcing an alienator or marriage reconciliation? And none of what I'm saying is to place judgment on anyone, I'm strictly talking for numbers. How deep of a covenant keeper a person is may play in to how you view the situation. A two-year first marriage, then a 30 year second marriage, that then goes back to the original spouse, may be a dream reconciliation story to a committed covenant keeper, or just another crazy symptom of MLC to an LBS who is not a CK.

This is where the longer past BD we go, the less the statistics really paint any pictures for us, but the fine details of our individual situations do, I think.

In my case, my xH found someone who was also married and had the same problems he has, they have a crazy life that is likely bonded by mental health issues, financial problems, job loss, family issues, addiction and an off the charts dependency on social media and tech that keeps them distracted from working on themselves in any sort of healthy way. Their "happiness" and "love" is relative to all of those things, and certainly, they have a lot in common that could make it complicated should they ever wish to separate. He would in no way be a match for me at this point, and I have no desire to gloss over all that has happened to me because of this episode in his life (though I stood for over 5 years initially, even after the divorce), so I don't really need to disqualify any happiness he may be having. It still sucks that this happened and there is a lack of justice that someone can just blow up a marriage and life goes on. But taking focus off of that is really the only key to getting past it, because that fact is not going to change. Even if they came back and wanted to atone, it wouldn't take away that it happened. So all we can do is heal, no matter what.

[Thunder]

Ready this is a discussion thread, open to anyone who can try to answer someone's question.

You made a lot of good points, even though sometimes we don't have answers to specific questions.  All we can do is give our opinions or share any information we have, including experiences we have had that may help.

[MarianTheLibrarian]

It still sucks that this happened and there is a lack of justice that someone can just blow up a marriage and life goes on. But taking focus off of that is really the only key to getting past it, because that fact is not going to change. Even if they came back and wanted to atone, it wouldn't take away that it happened. So all we can do is heal, no matter what.

This.

I think people assume I'm asking because I'm hoping for a return, and that's not necessarily so.  I think at first I assumed, based on everything I read about marriages that start with affairs, second and third marriages, etc., that they were simply doomed and it was a matter of time before the karma bus came for them.  As time has gone on, this has evolved from a personal loss (which honestly doesn't feel that bad anymore) to a questioning of the "moral arc of the universe."  It's taken an uncomfortable adjustment to my worldview to process this situation.  The fact that they've beaten so many statistical odds seems to add an aura of magic/mystique to their relationship as well.  I can't say that I know very much about their happiness or lack thereof, just that they have stuck it out this long.  They go on nice vacations and have fun holiday parties.  What lies beneath that veneer is anyone's guess.

Everything I learned growing up, the morals I taught my kids, my entire worldview suggested that making a decision this ruthless and selfish would, at very least, eat you alive from the inside, even if you got what you wanted at first.  I watch exH with a sort of sick fascination as he continues to prove this untrue. -- or at least appears to.  I try to keep myself from falling into bitterness, because some days it just feels like rules are for suckers.  I realize it's best not to worry about it, but oddly enough, this is one of those strange facets of the situation made worse by time, because the longer it goes without any sense that what happened was wrong, the less likely it seems that realization will ever come.

[xyzcf]

I don't know. It seems that some people continue to thrive no matter what they do while others who are basically saints experience great hardships.

All the data that we analyze means nothing for individual cases.

When we focus on stats for second and third marriages, we tend to focus perhaps on the number of marriages that don't last..but I know of many second marriages that have lasted for decades and the couples really are happy.

My husband is living the life that he chooses to live. It doesn't include me, it doesn't really include our daughter and after so many years, I accept that these are his choices...they would not have been mine.

I try to keep myself from falling into bitterness, because some days it just feels like rules are for suckers.

I think that I am following what I feel is right, what my moral compass has always told me...and I am ok with that. I cannot judge him really, no, there really is no point.

He is on a different path and that is his freedom, not mine to determine.

I feel grateful for the life I have and try and do the things that bring me joy.

I think that one of the reasons I don't want another relationship, is that I never want to chance being hurt this way again. Even that, as much as I would like, I cannot blame him for..once again, that is my choice and who I am.

Not sure if this makes any sense at all....I just have seen many people who don't follow the rules and their lives seem to always turn out well.

[KellBell]

I have a few questions:

Is it normal for the MLC to continue on with work like nothings going on?

Is it really that easy to compartmentalize everything? For my MLC H there is a lot of drinking and weed being used to cope. But he keeps it together at work- although he complains about it to everyone. Works sucks because of this or that.

The first few days after BD I asked him if he knew what he was doing...You are leaving your family, your kids, your home. Starting over in a new place with no one there. You are going to be alone and it's going to be hard...do you know what you are doing? To which he replied "When you say things like that you make me want to kill myself".  I wasn't saying it to be mean...I was stating the situation as it is/was. Isn't it crazy how the MLC is so detached from reality that when they hear it described they still don't believe it?

[Thunder]

Kelly I said something very similar to my MLCer in the beginning.

"Is all this really worth losing your family, your wife and possible your house?

His answer: "You don't really want me to answer that, do you?"

I had my answer.   

[Ready2Transform]

Think of it like teenagers. They act from selfish emotion, not logic. A child can be studious, outgoing, and have a bright future, then one day take up with the wrong crowd. Maybe they just experiment with drugs a little, or take on a new social group and throw away all their old friendships, or meet a bad boy type that they'll just DIE without and you just don't understand their love. It's sounding more like MLC already! You can explain all day how this can impact their bright future in so many horrible ways, but you know you're fighting a losing battle (or making them that much more intent on making you the bad guy). If they reach a point where you have to set some boundaries, you do it, but otherwise you have to let them make their own mistakes and live their own life. It's bizarre to have to take that same stance with someone you built a life with that suddenly turns tale to proverbially go hang out in 'smoker's corner' on school campus. But this is where they're at. Some of them can compartmentalize some aspects (mine did not do well with work, but he leaned heavily on the enablers in his FOO and his hobby friends). Wherever they face judgment or accountability tends to go. Where they can coast a bit or their identity change isn't a factor tends to stay.

[Thunder]

"Think of it like teenagers. They act from selfish emotion, not logic."

Well said Ready..well said.
Bout sums it up!