[Ichoosefaith]

Hello

I wanted to know with the timeframe of MLC does it start at BD or when in hindsight I notice the pattern such as two years ago wife decided we needed to move across the country even though earlier that year she said the house we lived in was our “forever home” and then when we moved she decided to ditch her long time career in the medical field and start trying to start her own cleaning business. But BD was 4/20/23 when she said to me there is no us if I continue drinking ( which yea I was drinking and isolating in depression especially once we got here and I had no family or friends ) however I have been sober since that day and she has gotten mean and pushed me away and said things about how she’s always taken care of others like her siblings and our children ( which the first was born when we were 18 ) and are now 34 and she needs to put herself first and not worry about others feelings and needs to prove to herself she can build a life for her and so on. She has flipped a switch in the past two months and treats me like she hates me and posts nothing but mean things that don’t need posted online for public and even makes it appear that the entire relationship was all bad and I am the enemy. Everything I say she takes as an attack in her. I went back home to Arizona to give her space and talked to her about it and she said it would be good for me to be around my family and give her space and 4 days later she says she never asked me to leave she asked for space and I left and that I’m not putting her needs first so I come home next day and she says it disgusts her that I change my actions based on her needs. Which is the exact opposite of what she said the day before. I can’t even talk to her about kids or work schedules without her treating me like I’m interrogating her by simply asking if she works the next few days. She says “ you don’t need to know what I work” even though we currently live together and share two kids who require transportation for various things. It’s a real nightmare but I’m standing. Even through the divorce I choose to stand. Because I am her husband and I have loved her for twenty years  and I will no matter what good times and bad. And the few years of horror this will be is nothing compared to the 20 prior and the 20 to come ahead of us. But please let me know my time expectation if it starts when her behavior and the weight loss and sleeping in the afternoons and stuff like two to theee years ago or if it’s from when she told me. 

Thank you

[UrsaMajor]

Hi,

I moved your thread to the "Our Community" board because it was actually posted into the Archives.

As far as your questions go, the initial stages can start before Bomb Drop but, as a matter of principle, we start looking at Bomb Drop as the real start.

However, having said that, stage watching (looking to see a timeline as to what stage the Mid-Lifer is in at any moment in time) is about as helpful as putting a screen door in a submarine. Every MLC'er is different and their timelines will be different.

Some of the things you have noted (switching their minds on a dime, saying one thing one day and the opposite the next) tend to be hallmarks of MLC because the Mid-Lifer is needing to justify their actions and by revising history, they can do that in order to assuage their own conscience.

Just a pointer for the forum, you might wish to format your posts with more brakes and so on as then it is easier to read and to respond to.

UM

[Baxter1]

ICF
The weight loss, hating me, needing space been there done that. Changing their minds about stuff is also parti of the fun. Welcome to the club, you found a good place here.

[Ichoosefaith]

Hey guys and gals

6 months in from BD and D filed. Is there anything I can say to her to show her that after 14 years together and 21 years of friendship that starting a life apart isn’t the answer that we can rebuild together and change the things she’s unhappy about. That she doesn’t need to do this in order to find herself and “ stop worrying about every one else’s needs” as she said. She said she’s always been a caretaker her whole life her siblings and then having kids at 18 so “she’s putting her feelings first and not concerned with everyone else. Everyone else will be fine. I’ll be fine kids will be fine”.

Please let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do to make her come around or if it’s literally a waiting game. Everything I do or say she either gets aggressive or completely ignores. That’s the hardest part over twenty years and now I can’t even talk to her.

Any words of advice or how to get through. I have read a lot and I know “detachment” but I guess that’s hard for me to do.

Thank you,
ICF
BD 4/20/23
M 35
H 34
D 15
D 10
Together 14 years married 12

[UrsaMajor]

IChoose,

 This thread was also in the Stories 2023 Archive and was locked so I have moved it to the "Our Community" Board which is the correct one for running threads and unlocked it so you can get replies. The Our Community Board is where your story should go. The Archives are used once a thread hits 150 posts or has gone dormant for so long that it falls to the back of the pack.

Regards,
UM

[KayDee]

Dear Ichoose, so sorry you are experiencing this, it is one of the most crushing, bewildering and traumatic things that can happen to a person. There are lots of great people on this Forum, people with more experience than I, with just one year under my belt, who will likely jump in and offer solid guidance. One thing that struck me that I wanted to respond to (and I wrote something similar on Helps thread:

That she doesn’t need to do this in order to find herself and “ stop worrying about every one else’s needs”

She won't be able to 'find' herself, if you are finding (fixing) things for her. And it could cause some resentment. I know it's hard, but she needs to discover for herself what she is missing. I know it is easier said than done, but try to resist any form of fixing or rescuing at this time. Your journey now is take care of yourself, you will be suffering mentally and physically. Triage yourself with whatever support it is that you need to keep you on an even keel (close friends, family, IC etc) and try as much as you can to step out of the fall-out of your W's crisis. You can keep to your values by being kind and showing compassion, but you must prioritise your health first aka put your oxygen mask on first. Sending you hugs of solidarity.

[UrsaMajor]

Ichoose,

KayDee hinted at this but, as a matter of course, you have 2 major issues to deal with - the first is, of course, your own well-being - your health (both mental and physical), your financial well-being (Mid-Lifers can spend money like they are printing it in their basement), and your own general life. The second is that you have 2 daughters that are both in the house. They will need to see/experience SOMEONE as the "stable" parent and your Mid-Lifer is NOT going to be it.

Trying to "help" your mid-lifer to "come to their senses" or to shield them from the consequences of their own actions will be quite counterproductive. In fact, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to persuade/coerce/guide your mid-lifer through their crisis. You have just as much chance as changing the path of a tornado by going outside, standing in the way waving your arms and yelling at it.....

You will be MUCH better served (as will your kids) by getting your happy rear end into your tornado shelter, hunkering down and waiting for the storm to blow past you. That means securing your finances, securing your own mental and physical health, and providing stability for your kids.

This is an invite to a party that NO ONE EVER wanted to attend but here you are.

This group is comprised of people from all different walks of life, different countries, different backgrounds, different ages, different orientations, etc., so if you post, you will be likely to find someone online that will replay/respond in relatively short time.

Be good to yourself and remember that this is NOT your crisis, this crisis has NOTHING to do with you or your marriage, and you have NO influence on it - This is her issue (are her issues) to deal with and work through. You can decide if you have your own work to do in the mean time (most of us do) and now you have the opportunity to do that work.

Finally, this is NOT a sprint to the finish.... It is an ultra-marathon slog through the mud with no guaranteed outcome. The objective for the LBS is to live their lives to the best, regardless of whether the Mid-Lifer ever gets their head out of their .... fog.... or not.

[Treasur]

Hey guys and gals

6 months in from BD and D filed. Is there anything I can say to her to show her that after 14 years together and 21 years of friendship that starting a life apart isn’t the answer that we can rebuild together and change the things she’s unhappy about. That she doesn’t need to do this in order to find herself and “ stop worrying about every one else’s needs” as she said. She said she’s always been a caretaker her whole life her siblings and then having kids at 18 so “she’s putting her feelings first and not concerned with everyone else. Everyone else will be fine. I’ll be fine kids will be fine”.

Please let me know if there is ANYTHING I can do to make her come around or if it’s literally a waiting game. Everything I do or say she either gets aggressive or completely ignores. That’s the hardest part over twenty years and now I can’t even talk to her.

Any words of advice or how to get through. I have read a lot and I know “detachment” but I guess that’s hard for me to do.

Thank you,
ICF
BD 4/20/23
M 35
H 34
D 15
D 10
Together 14 years married 12

The short-term simple answer is No.
For whatever reason, your wife has decided that this is the path she wants to take. She believes she will be ‘happier’, thinks she is freeing herself from obligations and telling herself the kids will be fine. And probably doesn’t care much about what you think or how you feel or indeed if you will be fine. (Although you will, we can promise you that, different but fine, after some pain, effort and hardship unfortunately)
Time will tell whether she’s right or not. Usually the ‘magic happy’ does not turn out quite the way they think. (You should be prepared though for an affair partner to bd likely lurking somewhere….it is very rare for this not to be the case in a situation like yours, I’m sorry. )
But all of that’s out of your control….her life lesson to learn either way.

It isn’t just a choice between trying to persuade her she’s wrong or waiting though. Waiting for an uncertain unknown isn’t a very good way to live. And if she is indeed having some kind of personal crisis, you could be waiting for years. And her behaviour may get much worse to be around until or unless it gets better…..and it is common that as our own perspectives evolve too with time and events. You may not know how you will feel in future, but I can promise you that you will not always feel exactly the same as you do today. You can choose to Stand, but it is not waiting imho. Standing is rather more about not making the situation worse through one’s own actions (like rushing off into a new relationship, or taking to the bottle, or pursuing a wife who does not want to be with you, or reacting unwisely when your emotions are high)….more like closing a door but choosing to keep it on the latch. Most of us here started by Standing and learned to trust that we would know when or if it was time to stand down.

I am of the opinion that once a divorce has been filed, your landscape changes irrecoverably. And it is wise to do what you need to do to adapt to that. What does that mean? Grieve and accept the end of your old life and marriage. Take legal advice on how you can reasonably and fairly protect yourself and your kids.  Prioritise taking care of your own wellbeing and that of others who are damaged by your wife’s choice. Say very little to your stbxw about your thoughts and feelings….partly bc you are in a legal process where that can be unhelpful, partly bc she does not want to hear what you have to say right now, partly bc it keeps the focus on her instead of on your healing and rebuilding. Start training your brain to separate out what is your responsibility and what is not, what is your ‘job’ as a coparenting future xh and what is not. (It’s not uncommon for MLC stbxw’s to want to fire you as a husband and also think you will fix their car or do other husbandly chores. Or indeed want your sympathy when/if their new magic happy life turns out to be a bit harder than they thought  )

Essentially, start figuring out how to live ‘as if’ you are already an independent person who is no longer married to your wife. That takes a bit of time and a few mistakes along the way usually after so long together……but it can also be a time when you learn quite a lot about who you want to be and how you are going to choose to live your life from here on. Not one of us here would underplay the grief that goes with this level of loss….not just losing your wife, but all the other changes and losses that come along with this kind of life-altering experience. We have been there and we get it.

Bc this is hard….although we will always support you….you may want to think about getting an IC or coach to help you move forward the best you can. And a support system…not so much perhaps for talking about how awful things are, but definitely for keeping you attached to the good things of life….friends, family, new activities or interests that can bring positive feelings in the midst of what is possibly the hardest time of your life so far. Do you have that?

So, given all of this, what are you doing to look after yourself right now? What are you doing that helps you to show up in life as the kind of man you want to be regardless of what your stbxw thinks or does? What are your specific priorities? Or fears? How can we help you to navigate forward from here?

[Baxter1]

ICF-
I’m going to jump on and agree, the first few months are horrible. After a while you get into a groove, the way I did it was spend time with the kids and do my own thing. Ive gone bowling, hiking, out with the guys, traveled, whatever works for you. Enjoy basketweaving? Go for it! Birdwatching? Why not?

Also focus on the kids, her headspace is on herself, not you, not kids, just her. My wife was the best mom, now she goes out and doesn’t come home for days, if I wasn’t here the kids would be hungry and the house would be a pigsty. I agree with UM, you need to be a stable force for the kids, because for now she is not that force at all.

It took me a while to see that this wasn’t a marriage issue. I thought if only I hugged her that time or bought more flowers this wouldn’t be happening. It’s an MLC issue and all you can do is stand back, with compassion and empathy, but stand back.

[Ichoosefaith]

STBXW is adding random single men on social media like every day both in our area and our hometown where we are from across the country. I’m guessing I am not supposed to bring this up to her?

I see all these guys profiles and they all say SINGLE and she is just adding them on all her social media all the time and it’s killing me.

What do I do?

[HeavenlyFocus]

Hi Ichoose,

The best thing you can do is block her on social media so you can’t see what she is doing.  I couldn’t handle the inappropriate communication from my XW during the initial months after BD and found I needed to protect myself.   

HF

[Treasur]

STBXW is adding random single men on social media like every day both in our area and our hometown where we are from across the country. I’m guessing I am not supposed to bring this up to her?

I see all these guys profiles and they all say SINGLE and she is just adding them on all her social media all the time and it’s killing me.

What do I do?

Don’t discuss it at all with her. Pointless bc you can’t control it and she doesn’t care what you think. (If she did, she wouldn’t be doing it, right?) Plus it will open up the kind of ‘you’re not the boss of me/it’s your fault bc you suck’ conversation that never goes very well for the LBS.

Unless there is a very good reason, following advice from your own lawyer if you live in an ‘at fault’ place, as HF says,  what you can do is unfollow her on all social media and block her from your own.

[Ichoosefaith]

To top it off I found out that she has actually made her friends list private to others. So she WANTS me to see it. So it’s hard to tell if she is actually talking or doing things with these men or just messing with me. Same when I found out about her tinder months ago she claimed she got it to catch me snooping but then continued using it and even started paying for it. And when I confronted her about the tinder she said “ if you think in the type of person to find someone on an app and hookup I have no interest in changing your mind” but since then has added upwards of 50 or more single guys that she doesn’t know from her and our hometown as well as some from various places around the world.

So what do y’all think is she just trying to get a ride out of me?

Or is she actually doing things ?

She’s also completely flipped on the housing situation at first she was leaving and even text me saying she wouldn’t try to screw me however since she has filed for alimony and child support and to take the house!!!!

She has always been of the mindset against alimony and even mostly child support if split 50/50 time with the kids.

And now she’s hiding booze in her closet so I know she’s drinking even though she had such a problem with my drinking and childhood trauma with her mothers drinking. So I worry about her. But again it could be a plant to mess with me.
She’s just so out of character but loved ones in common think I’m the crazy one for thinking she’s having problems or is not of the right mind.

[Treasur]

Another site talks about trying to understand this kind of mindf**kery being like putting your own head in a blender…..better for you not to do that, my friend.
How? Observe facts but shut down your own speculation on what they ‘mean’.
Other than all these things being a) textbook MLC stuff and b) not appropriate in a healthy adult partnership.

Lying. Lying when it’s blindingly obvious they are lying. Seeking attention in weird ways and weird places. Blaming you for things that have nothing to do with you, that you have no responsibility for at all, or baiting you into reacting by leaving bread crumbs the size of houses. Claiming a duck is a fish, and all your fault anyway. Drama from nowhere about nothing. Saying one  thing on Tuesday and the exact opposite another Tuesday. Thinking their money is theirs and yours is also theirs. Seemingly indifferent to the effects on you or their kids or that if they are ‘happy’, everyone else should be fine. Hiding booze. Anger, resentment, manipulation. A truly bizarre level of Me Me Me in an adult.

Not a single thing on your list surprises me at all.
But then I’m a vet here.
Your goal is to reach the point when it doesn’t surprise you as much either. And you understand that it has nothing to do with you at all unless you choose to involve yourself in it. And then you usually lose if you choose to play 
 
The bit that matters most in your post imho is your last point about others thinking YOU are the crazy one. Not uncommon for we LBS.
But it does matter that YOU know you are not crazy. (Or not too crazy bc we all get a little askew in the initial stages of this truly weird life experience  )

You can’t control what people think, but you can choose to look after your own sanity as a priority. How? Focus on observable facts without speculating on the why. Don’t try to persuade others to see what you see if they don’t. Stay calm and trust your own eyes. Keep reminding yourself that whatever she is doing, and for whatever reason, you did not cause it, you can’t control it and you can’t change it. And it will probably continue to be incomprehensible to you, so stop trying to understand the incomprehensible. Reduce your expectations of reasonable, rational or reliable behaviour by your wife dramatically. Then turn away, put boundaries in place where you can to minimise the effect on you or your kids, shrug your metaphorical shoulders and turn your focus back to your own life and wellbeing.

[UrsaMajor]

I choose,

I cut your posts (and the replies) out of the "General MLC Questions" thread and merged them here into your personal Story Thread. If you stick with posting into your own thread, you'll get more results and replies. The General MLC Questions thread is more for General questions than specific ones like yours.

Treasur was right though - My version was trying to understand the MLC'er is like trying to taste green... with your elbow  - a bit less bloody than Treasur's version but just as valid....

[MadLuv]

Ichoosefaith-
Like the others everything is pretty spot on for how these MLCers work. You are looking for answers that you can’t get, but what you can get is knowledge. Read!!! Read others stories. It will help you to understand that this is normal for the MLCer , but anything but normal for you. My XH was the most morally kind human and he lied, deceived, gas lighted, manipulated  me at the highest levels for years.  They are in crisis and they will do anything to try to stay afloat while they are drowning in their own confusion. I’m so sorry. Getting to a place of calm and acceptance of the craziness of it all is not an easy road to travel.

[Ichoosefaith]

I read others stories so much and that’s what lead me to become a member here.

I appreciate all of the wisdom and advice and I know I should do all these things, I knew before you all told me because I have spent 6 months reading every piece of literature online and forum and article about this topic.

I know for everyone it’s different. But my W has been be best friend since we were kids and I view other stories on here and where people are with their journey and I wonder if she’s coming back.

I know it can take YEARS but she’s been in it at least 2 years and we are 6 months post BD. AND I don’t know what I do in the mean time. Do I date? Do I stay committed with my body as I am with my heart?

Over the next year or two or more everyone says to focus on me and do what makes me happy. But this is my wife and I promised I wouldn’t give up on her or abandon her. But she is doing that to me right now.

And how can I trust anyone when my partner and best friend can do this to me.

I know it’s not her it’s the monster. And half the people on here say she needs to see consequences of her actions. And half say to make sure she knows the door is always open.

And if I date there will always be this part of me that knows if she came back I’d go.

I know you probably all felt this way but me and her are a once in a lifetime love.

[zartheit]

I wonder if she’s coming back.

I know it can take YEARS but she’s been in it at least 2 years and we are 6 months post BD. AND I don’t know what I do in the mean time. Do I date? Do I stay committed with my body as I am with my heart?

I feel for you, friend. Advice that I found frustrating and that am now repeating: this is your life, this is your choice. You get to decide what is best for you. You get to decide how you want to live, and who you want to be.

But this is my wife and I promised I wouldn’t give up on her or abandon her. But she is doing that to me right now.

This may not land, but your wife no longer values your promises. Not now, at least. I would ask you, how does strengthening yourself abandon her? How would improving your self-esteem, or your inner peace be giving up on her? How would clarifying your values interfere with any promises you made to another person? Focusing on yourself is shorthand for sharpening your edge, for rediscovering the core of yourself, for digging deeply into who you are so that you may share it with the world from a place of contended wholeness. It is not about living a hedonistic fantasy. Lean into those hobbies, go to that gallery, take that road trip. Do whatever you need to do to prove to yourself that life is good, that you are ok and will be ok.

I will say, right now you are in the middle of the worst storm of your life. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to make large decisions. You may have heard the term "survival mode". You are experiencing that right now.

Getting back to what I believe is your main concern: is she coming back? I don't know. I'm sorry. I say believe whatever you NEED to believe to get you through today. Your understanding and feelings will change. The awful boiling and freezing you're likely feeling, like the weight of the world is chained to your gut, won't be there forever, but you need motivation to put in the work to change it. Use whatever you can to create that initial life raft.

All of the questions you wrote will become more tractable with time. All of the advice you have read was written by people that were standing right next to you, staring down the destruction of everything they had worked to build. They speak from tragic experience. Please use that wisdom.

[Nas]

The best advice I can give is don't abandon yourself under the guise of "not abandoning her."
You can't abandon another adult. I know that sounds a bit cruel, I don't mean it to be. My former H turned his back on me and our marriage, for sure, and when he did, he also, among other things, committed some major financial abuse that I'll never recover from. And then I got advanced cancer. And then he vanished. So I don't speak of any of this glibly.

We LBS feel abandoned by this, and often it's a reopening of old abandonment wounds, coupled with of course the deep pain of rejection, the fear of what's to come and the loss of what no longer is. It's brutal to go through this, no matter what circumstances, and some circumstances can make it worse, which is why you have to put yourself and your kids ahead of whatever sympathy you have for what she may be going through.

I'm not saying its' not a crisis, but she's young for MLC, and if it's been 2 years, that puts her at 32-33 at the start. She could have a long, long road of figuring herself out. And you also have a long road of figuring yourself out, who you are separate from the relationship you've been in most of your life. You're so young and life can take so many different roads. No one here can tell you what's going to happen or what you should do - you have to do what you feel is best for you and your kids, and you might find yourself changing your mind several times about just what that is.

Hang in there. I know right now it feels overwhelmingly raw and painful but it does get easier with time.

[KayDee]

And how can I trust anyone when my partner and best friend can do this to me.

By trusting yourself. Would you do this to another person? I know we cannot entirely put ourselves into Crisis Shoes, but I think most of us can't envisage it. You will likely have some amazing people step up and support you to. Let them in, they will keep you afloat.

I know it’s not her it’s the monster. And half the people on here say she needs to see consequences of her actions. And half say to make sure she knows the door is always open.

Apologies for being blunt. This IS her - it's a version of her you haven't encountered. And in crisis, when the lid blows off, and a person is under extreme emotional distress, they can lash out like wounded animals. Hurting people hurt people. It won't help you to create a narrative that she is not responsible. She is making choices. The upside is that she can, further down the line, choose to repair the damage. If she heals.
[/quote]

And if I date there will always be this part of me that knows if she came back I’d go.

It's very unlikely you are ready to date. So, maybe take that pressure off yourself for a while. I suspect many of us go into our own mini replay at the start. I know I joined a bunch of clubs to meet 'new' m(read MEN). I never went. I told my therapist and she said 'you've probably only got enough room for the current people in your life at the moment' As in, you don't have the bandwidth for a new relationship. Now, 14 months or so in, I am content on my own. For now. I trust myself to know when the time is right. You'll will likely know too. Give yourself some space to grieve.

We walk alongside you. We all walk together on this forum. It is a comfort, and I hope you keep posting.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Let's tackle the first one.

And if I date there will always be this part of me that knows if she came back I’d go.

So why date? You are not mentally ready for a new relationship and I don't think it is fair to play with someone else's feelings thinking you are available. I did not date until the divorce was done and I was just as done as well. From the cheap seats, dating will not only hurt you, but could strain your relationship with your girls as well. Just as they are confused by their mother's actions, they will be just as confused by yours if you enter the dating pool too soon.

I know that going on a date after being rejected by your ex is a great confidence booster. Just being desired again is a great feeling. Unfortunately, you are still strongly attached to your your wife regardless of her actions.

You are in the middle of a divorce and she is flip flopping on her demands. Now is the time to focus on protecting yourself and your daughters. Your marriage may be all about love, but divorce is all about business. If you are not careful, you can end up on the short end of the stick- especially if you try to please her and "look like the good guy".

It's brutal to go through this, no matter what circumstances, and some circumstances can make it worse, which is why you have to put yourself and your kids ahead of whatever sympathy you have for what she may be going through.

That is why now is the time to protect what you have rather than concern yourself with what you may get in the future. As Nas stated, you are young and both your girls are getting older. In fact, they are the same age as both my daughters were when my ex entered her crisis. Lots of things can happen and you have to be open to any option that comes your way.

I feel for you, friend. Advice that I found frustrating and that am now repeating: this is your life, this is your choice. You get to decide what is best for you. You get to decide how you want to live, and who you want to be.

Another great point, now is the time to regain your power and pull yourself back up. I remember in the beginning of her crisis, it seemed everything was going her way. She had the power, she was doing what she wanted to do, and I was the miserable one that couldn't do anything right and was the sole reason why our marriage was failing. It took time, but I realized that I had choice and there is a big difference between standing for her and standing for yourself.

Hang in there my friend, support your daughters and yourself.  I know how hard it is right now and I do truly feel your pain. It is unmeasurable and just drains all of your energy. You can save a lot by not focusing on her at all and taking care of yourself and your daughters.

Have an amazing day,

(((Ready)))

[MadLuv]

My simple advise on making decisions is checking where you are. You wonder if she is coming back? Not ready to date !! Should I stand body and soul?? Yea, until you feel differently. I get it. I was married 30 years. It’s debilitating. I am almost 3 years post BD2. This has been going on for me since 2008. That is 16 years!! So don’t wait. Focus on you. That’s hard. There is no magical answer. Time… time makes it easier, but one thing that really did help me was to focus on the bad my MLCer was doing, had done, was saying… focus on the bad. It really does help with detachment. It helps with not glorifying the relationship and the MLCer. It just takes a lot of time and therapy and good friends to talk to also.

[Treasur]

I am very sorry for your loss, ichoose. Or more accurately, your losses bc most of us lose a lot of things in this process, not just the spouse we loved so much. Big loss changes our lens on ourself and the world; much as we long to go back to a time before we knew what we now know or have seen what we’ve now seen, we can’t and that’s a kind of loss too. And imho some of those losses - and indeed some as yet unseen gains - are still lost or won even in the rare cases here of eventual reconciliation…..some of life’s toothpaste simply won’t go back in the tube once squeezed to this degree....that’s a hard thing to accept and work with, isn’t it?

A lot of folks here could have written, probably have written, much of what you wrote here. That honest belief that ‘our’ relationship was different, that deep shock that our best friend we trusted most in the world could do what they did, that utter bewilderment about how to respond and what to do next. And the answers to so many of those questions are personal and take time to figure out for each of us.

I agree with a lot of the other posts.
Your first job is to find some way to accept that this IS happening and that it is life-altering for everyone touched by it. That it isn’t magically going to go away, that what you are seeing is some part of the blended character of your wife, that she is not clinically insane or incompetent in making choices or devoid of agency or responsibility. This is simply her way of dealing with her own inner discomfort, crisis or depression….and that is bringing up parts of her character in how she is dealing with this that you perhaps had not seen before. Or, with time, as many of us do, you may come to see that these are parts of her character with go-faster stripes that you have seen small glimmers of but excused or adapted around in the course of a long partnership bc they did not create this kind of tornado. Imho finding our own way to accept that what we are seeing is what is really happening and that it is happening bc of the other person’s choices is a really hard process for most of us. Sanity saving eventually, but very hard.

Wrt to your other questions….I would suggest you be guided by the principle of Seek To Do No Extra Harm. To you, to your kids, to other humans. Dating as a sticking plaster can cause harm bc there is a real human on the other side of the table or bed. This kind of mess is rarely improved by adding another human into the mix….and the kind of women interested in dating a chap in your current situation often bring their own baggage imho. You don’t need that and most of all your kids don’t need that. Focus on stabilising your own life ship, and your kids’ ship, before you invite new passengers or jump onto someone else’s ship for a long cruise. 

Go slow and steady. Do your best with what you can control. Protect you and your kids from the damage the best you can. Find small new pleasures in this new world where you can.  Let yourself grieve your losses. Try to use a kind eye with yourself bc you will make mistakes in this new unfamiliar land and it will not always be easy or straightforward. Let yourself learn who you are other than a husband or partner. Trust that you will know when/if it is time to release yourself from your own vows or how to adapt them to the fact that your wife no longer values them or has broken her half of them, that you will work out with time what this version of your once much-loved wife is to you in your heart and what role if any she plays in your future life.

It can be so frustrating to hear people keep talking about Time…and truthfully, it is also about what you do with the Time….but that does not make it any less true. Time allows us to evolve if we let it, to slowly find a different way of living and being from who we used to be. But you have to decide to allow that evolving to happen….and that can be scary bc we don’t know where it will take us, and painful bc it involves us  letting go of what we are trying so hard to hold onto. Only you know when/if you are ready to let that evolving begin, to allow Time and different kinds of days to shape a different kind of life. And we get it, we know how strange and difficult and painful it can be to let go of an old life that you do not want to lose in search of a new one that you can’t see yet. It’s quite a brave thing actually, almost an act of faith. But, put simply, until you feel in your gut that you are ready to see where evolving takes you, you are practically speaking not ready to date and not ready to make other big life altering decisions that you are not forced by circumstances to make. 


One of the most strange, but surprisingly useful, things I found out in my own journey is that there is a real difference between hunting something down vs allowing it to come. It’s a different kind of energy altogether, like apples and pears. Fear and a need for control and safety tends to make us hunt for things; it’s how our brains are naturally wired. Allowing things to show up, sitting with it and then deciding what to do with them is a slower process with a different skill set, and it requires us to make peace with some level of not knowing where evolution is going to take us and learn to live with some level of uncertainty about a whole bunch of things. But it is less frantic and more solid feeling somehow. Jmo.

[AlvinTheMaker]

And how can I trust anyone when my partner and best friend can do this to me.
....
And if I date there will always be this part of me that knows if she came back I’d go.

Hello,

I am so sorry you are now member of this club.

As response.... This is some of the work you need to do on you. Hurt people hurt (self and others),  and right now you are all open wounds and bleeding to death. 

There is no magic potion here besides

1) exiting into "safe zone" - take your eyes and mind away from your partner, this will stop new emotional wounds and stop bleeding).

2) once in safe zone, start focusing on PIES & GAL. This is all about getting started with recovery. If you are not familiar with acronyms PIES equals physical, intellectual, emotional, spiritual - it is all about rebuilding you and becoming best version of you. And GAL, getting a life, is all about creating enviroment that nourishes recovery.

3) and last but not least, give it time. Life will be good (one way or another) some day. But getting there will be slow,  hard,  and there will be moments of cry, tears and failures. But you will get there eventually and reap rewards regardless of the survival of your relationship

Take good care of yourself,
Alvin

[Ichoosefaith]

Thank you all so much for your wisdom.

My concerns are what do I do. I need to stay positive and confident and have faith. How can she have confidence in us and come back if I seem desperate or weak or insecure. I know we are meant to be together. And I know that she loves me. She has not given me the ilybinilwy thing at all. She hasn’t said she doesn’t live me. SHE CANT. and the fact that she is still trying to make me jealous when I know her friends list is private to others but not to me.
So that is my confusion personally. Is why is she trying to make me jealous? And what do I do. Is she looking for a reaction or drama ? Do I give it to her to show I care? Probably not.

Or do I ignore it and move like I don’t notice. Keep hitting the gym and going to church and trying to stay on the positive. Having faith in our live even through divorce. She said at the beginning of this how can she talk to me about my feelings she doesn’t trust me with them. How can she when mine aren’t in control.

So wisdom?

[Reinventing]

She is living in a fantasy land and you are living in reality. That's why she could be trying to make you jealous, so she can have multiple people vying over her, or she may not remember that you can see her friends list.

Either reason, it doesn't matter because your response is the same. To try and take your eyes off of her and focus on your healing.

She fell out of love with herself and is looking for easy ways to boost her dopamine levels. This fantasy land helps boost those levels, but not for the long run. So she has to keep trying another new thing to get another boost.

You may not feel like the stable one, but you are. You are in pain, grief and loss, but you are in reality.

[KayDee]

Dear ICF, it may help you to understand that your confusion is likely a mirror of your W's turmoil and confusion. It's a kind of transference and countertransference - some therapists use it to gauge what's going on with their clients. But you are not a therapist,  you are a person caught up in the rudder of a boat careering out of control. It won't help you to stay that entangled because 1) she probably doesn't really know what she wants from one minute to the next, or day, or - add timeframe depending on the cycle length 2) and everyone will keep saying this, you need to triage yourself to get onto dry land (to keep my boat theme running  ). No one can give you a formula for this, we all found our own way. A good support network, IC, exercise, and boundaries about what you will accept / not accept are good moves.

Your thinking will likely dramatically change over time. At the moment, you are reacting to an onslaught of crazy, and it is near impossible to be clear headed in these situations. You are still in the WTF zone (not sure we ever quite leave it, but yours is very fresh) and I'm sorry to say, things may likely get worse. This is why people will keep telling you to focus on yourself, get yourself stable - stable for you and your loved ones - and then you can better assess your situation. Ask yourself - was our marriage mainly good up until this recent BD?  Was it me that changed? If yes, and no, then who you are was/is good enough, no need to start making false changes in reaction to a crisis.

There will be a introspection for you, that's all good an positive, but that will happen gradually at your pace. For now, know it's NOT YOU, but you need to keep healthy for you and your kids. It's so hard. So sorry you are here.

[Ichoosefaith]

She has deleted EVERY picture of us from 21 years from her social media. Is this another attempt to hurt me? Is this a coping mechanism?

My friend says it’s her way of moving on. But with everything else and all the breadcrumbs and things she tries to make sure I notice.

There’s a side of me that wants to believe we will be okay some day. And she’s just in crisis. But others don’t necessarily believe me or see what I see. They also don’t know the love we had. People often tell me to just accept that she is gone forever, but the fact that she is SO different and has all the signs of crisis makes me believe that’s what it is. And I don’t know what to do?  I know I can’t ask her or talk to her about any of it ( which after two decades I should be able to talk to her) but we all know she’s not herself right now.

This is my woman, my best friend, my wife. I can’t just give up and I don’t know if she wants me to fight for her because some things say she may act out because she wants me to fight harder and prove it but she just gets more angry when I talk to her about anything. Or do I ignore it and not give her any reaction?

I love her so much and this life is so much pain without her.

[Reinventing]

PWN, she deleted all those pictures because she is in crisis and is rejecting herself, which includes her life up to this point. You are part of that life she is rejecting.

The reason she is rejecting her life and is spending time and energy building a new fantasy life (new car, new house, new job, new hobbies, new partner, new, new, new) is that she thinks this will help her feel better.

She fell out of love with herself and blames her current life for her feelings of discomfort. So she thinks outside things, new things, will be the fix.

They aren't the fix, but she has to try them to find out and it takes a looooonnnnggg time for that to happen.

but she just gets more angry when I talk to her about anything.

This is called "monster". Any time you challenge the fantasy life she thinks is going to solve her bad feelings, she will react with monster to defend the fantasy life. You have to be wrong, because if you were right, then she has to look inside for why she is feeling bad about herself.

You are an innocent bystander of a person in crisis that is rejecting themselves. Part of "themselves" is you and so they have to reject you as well.

It is excruciatingly painful to watch and experience the person you love and trust reject you as part of their crisis.

You didn't cause it and therefore you can't fix it.

[Treasur]

I am so very sorry for your obvious pain and distress. As Reinventing says, we remember what that is like and we get how confusing and heart-wrenching it is.
It will not always feel how it feels today, but we understand just how awful it is right now.

My ‘wisdom’ fwiw is unlikely to be what you long to hear and I’m sorry for that. But it is what can help you keep your sanity, calm yourself and be a decent parent so it is worth saying.

I think you are hanging your beliefs on a couple of hooks that may be less useful than you think. And we have all done it, at least for a while, so it’s understandable.
Your belief in your own shared love ‘story’ and your belief that there is something you can do that will change her path and your belief that if your wife is in crisis, this is not the ‘real’ her so it will all be ok in the way you want eventually.

You may turn out to be right in some of those beliefs with time.
But
Those beliefs are at odds with the evidence in front of your eyes.
And they are at odds with how normal life normally works
And they are at odds with most of the anecdotal evidence in the stories shared here.
I’m sorry.
Denying that does not change current realities, incomprehensible as they are. But it does weaken your ability to deal with them in a way that safeguards you and your children.

People don’t file for divorce bc they love you. They file for divorce bc, rightly or wrongly, they believe that they will be happier with a new life that does not include you. Sure, beliefs and feelings can change with time and events, but right now that is what is happening in your life. And whatever your beliefs are about the inherent love between you or that this is not what your ‘real’ non-crisis wife wants, your beliefs are not currently what your wife believes. You can’t fight for her bc you would have to fight her to do so. You can only fight for yourself, for your own future and that if your children…..and doing that is likely to mean fighting some of your own default beliefs.
I’m sorry.

This is life altering, we know. And something that is big enough to cause most of us to re-examine every inch of who we are exactly bc it challenges so many of our firmly held beliefs about so much of our life to date. I am not saying that you have to change those beliefs entirely…..I am suggesting that you have to stop owning your wife’s beliefs though and focus on just your own. That seeing how life and experience lets some of those beliefs take on a new shape is likely to be part of your life for the next few years as you heal and recover from this truly awful experience you never wanted for yourself or your family. Seeing that it is not all an either/or as it seems now but sometimes a both/and with what we believe. Understanding that not one LBS here did our best thinking when we were distressed and reeling in shock, and we get better. To work out how to live with the reality that bad things can happen to good people and not all of them are in our control…..but how we live despite them is in our control.

We often say here to ‘live as if they are not coming back’. Bc often that is what happens. Very few marriages survive this; it would be a fairy story to pretend otherwise. And those few that do take years and are built on salted ground by two previously broken people which is not an easy thing to do either. I suspect what you have shared here about photos and your wife’s social media activities are performative in the same way….she is ‘living as if’….and time will tell how that works out for her.

You need to figure out what your own version of ‘living as if’ looks like. As a parent, as a stbxh, as a man, as a human being who has survived the worst and found a way to live well despite that. You can hope for the best, but still need to live through the worst if that make sense. You can still love your wife but respect the presenting reality that she does not feel how you feel. You can still quietly treasure the life and marriage you had without her involvement, keep the photos you have without the ones she erased, even keep a small mental door not entirely closed to the possibility of reconciliation at some unknown future point.

But today you need to look the pain in the eye, acceot that what is happening is currently actually happening, listen to advice from your lawyer, let go of your wife and start the small steps of living as if you are an unmarried parent and no longer a man with a wife.

What does that look like to you, my friend?
Where and how do you want to live as if?
What are the foundations of the next chapter of a story that does not involve your wife?

Hard wisdom, I know….hard won and hard to swallow….but it is honestly the wisest kind of wisdom that I have. That you find a way to accept the real reality of where you currently are and that this starts with focusing on the next chapter with just you and your kids as the heroes and heroines in it. And we understand that this is easy to say and hard to do after decades of marriage or, as in your case, when you started a shared life before you were really even a full adult yet, bc so much of life has been built on a We not a Me. So it takes time and some trial and error to work that out.

Leave your stbxw to her own next chapter….don’t look, don’t think about it, let her choices lead her towards her own life lessons….you have enough to do to figure out your own. And it begins with baby steps as it did for all of us after that first giant step of accepting that how it is IS really how it is.

[Treasur]

PS a very practical thing you can do which might help is to start counting your blessings. Every day, write three things for which you feel grateful. If you pray, don’t pray FOR things to be given but give thanks for what you already have.  Bc when we feel swamped by the bad stuff, by the darkness, when the world feels incomprehensibly awful, it keeps our eye focused on the light in the dark, on what we have rather than what we have lost. Someone suggested this to me in my darkest days, and my first attempts were tiny…a good cup of coffee, a daffodil in early spring  ….but with time I noticed that it changed my focus and how I chatted with God 

[AlvinTheMaker]

Dear IChooseFaith,

There is a proverb "your life is a reflection of your thoughts". What this means is that if you walk to dark alley and notice a dog, for one person the dog is a frightening experience, for some other it is worlds cutest thing. Your are now in this situation. What you, your friends, and your wife see - the view is different for all based on their own thoughts and history.

You are entitled to believe she is dropping breadcrumbs. And you are entitled to cherish the fact that you feel your love story was unique. But you should also take into account your beliefs are just your beliefs, and trying to force them onto others may and will trigger them. What good does it do to you?

Possibly the biggest of all beliefs is love. Like all beliefs, love too is a choice. You must have read on some point of your life "If you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours. If not, it was never meant to be.".... Let her go, don't clinge or persuade, but also do not do the work for her. If she comes back some day, then smile. If not, then you still have loved.

The goal is not to fix your marriage now. It is to get you to a point where you can start healing from pain of giving up, and becoming best of you for anything life has in store for you.

Alvin
.

[Ichoosefaith]

Has anyone in here successfully saved their marriage?

I appreciate everyone’s words but I do notice everyone has moved on or is still currently in it.

I was hoping someone who came out the other side reconciled would maybe have some words of wisdom. But those folks probably don’t frequent this site anymore.

[zartheit]

There are people that "saved" their marriage. It is pretty rare.

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?

I also want to say that I can really feel your panic coming through and I'm sorry. I was there quite recently and it is not somewhere I ever want to return to. For my own case, I didn't want to "let go" of her. She was already gone. I was clinging to air. Telling her I want to fight for us just meant that I was ignoring what she was saying, steamrolling her own desires for my own. Sure, I STILL don't understand why she would desire what she does, or how she can proceed in the ways that she has, but my understanding does not supersede respect for another human being's autonomy, as hard as that was to face.

[xyzcf]

Has anyone in here successfully saved their marriage?

Some marriages have been rebuilt after MLC. Not because anyone was able to successfully "save" their marriage...no, nothing we do, nothing anyone does "fixes" this. MLC is not about us and not about our marriages.

Sometimes, the MLCer does come through their crisis and wish to return. Often the LBSer is long gone by then. Some MLCers never seem to make any attempts to return. I have not seen any kind of a pattern that would indicate who returns and who doesn't. Each story is very different.

Here is a link to some reconciliation stories

https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1872.0

If you click on the purple or light purple icons across the top of the page,under "Filter topics based on prefix"  it will bring you to posts from several people who have reconciled.

There are more but their stories are filed away in the archives.

Yes, I know of couples who have reconciled but they do not post anymore.

I know you probably all felt this way but me and her are a once in a lifetime love.

We had no clue. The "surprise" of being told our marriage is over without any rationale and their change in personality is truly how I see the "crisis" and it is very hard to comprehend.

Have you read RCR's articles? They will give you a good foundation of what MLC is. The stories here are all anecdotal as are the reasons for why LBSers stand or move on.

https://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/chapter-contents.html

Advice that is given should only be seen as "suggestions" or sharing of things that happened in one's own situation. We must pick and choose for ourselves what fits and disregard what doesn't.

The beauty of this site is the support that you receive, because seldom do outsiders understand. Continue with your life and find peace in things.

[Ichoosefaith]

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?.

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

The answer in what worked for them would guide me to what action I need to take. Some articles say in her state she may NEED to see that I will fight for her and her response is to keep testing that and pushing because she needs it but can’t accept it right now as real so she is trying to push to a point where she can say “ see he gave up” “ he didn’t love me enough to fight”.

Others say to allow her to heal and process independently. So I don’t know what to do. I was just a kid when I met her and we have grown up together from a very young age. And it’s impossible to believe that when she said in April “there is no us if you continue drinking” and that a life with me sober and present is what she has always wanted how she could suddenly just not want it after all that time and saying those words.

And how would it feel if I truly got sober and didn’t fight for us?  If I just walked away like I don’t care. What message would that send? 

She’s denying saying she doesn’t even know how to make her list private to others but me and that the people I heard that from must not be her friends on there. And adding the guys “making friends” she said you have no idea where I met these people through work, through her brother , through tinder for all I know. Which I said probably tinder and she flipped the firetruck out and cussed me out and locked herself in a bathroom yelling firetruck off go away. And I told her I know you’re trying to get to me and I get it but when you’re ready to talk and handle it. I love you and I am here. And I’m gonna fight for you

This is my dilemma.

[Nas]

I want to ask you: what do you hope to get from their wisdom? What is the form of an answer you are anticipating? What would that answer enable in your life? What next steps will you take once that information is in your hand?.

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

It's going to be really important for you to step back and see where you're projecting. There's nothing "blatant" about her deleting pictures of you or adding single men to her social media, or anything else she does or says or doesn't do or doesn't say. You believe she's doing it to get a reaction out of you - that's your belief, it's not a concrete fact, and it's likely your hope that she's still considering you as a factor in the things she's doing, even if it's in a negative sense. The truth is, we have NO idea why anyone does or says anything, and NOTHING is ever 100% exactly as it seems even in the best of circumstances. There are parts of other people we just don't know and can't know, no matter how close we are to them. And often what we believe is an indication of what we want to be true. It's not the truth - the truth of why she's doing anything is somewhere inside her brain where you will never see it and she may not even be cognizant of it.

The answer in what worked for them would guide me to what action I need to take. Some articles say in her state she may NEED to see that I will fight for her and her response is to keep testing that and pushing because she needs it but can’t accept it right now as real so she is trying to push to a point where she can say “ see he gave up” “ he didn’t love me enough to fight”.

Both of the above are codependent, mind reading and attempts to believe we have control over another person - both sides of the coin are flawed: the idea of her acting a certain way and expecting you to "read her mind" or "read between the lines" and respond appropriately, and the idea that you should watch her, listen to her and try to interpret things she's not communicating. Any articles that advise you that she needs to see you have any kind of reaction to her are articles you should avoid taking advice from.

Others say to allow her to heal and process independently. So I don’t know what to do. I was just a kid when I met her and we have grown up together from a very young age. And it’s impossible to believe that when she said in April “there is no us if you continue drinking” and that a life with me sober and present is what she has always wanted how she could suddenly just not want it after all that time and saying those words.

I'm so sorry because we've all been in your shoes and know how painful it is. If you are newly sober, that needs to be your focus, for you and your kids. The truth is, anyone can change their mind at any time for any reason, and we can never know why. Focusing on an unanswerable question will only cause you added anxiety. We've all done it, and it takes a concerted effort to stop trying to figure out "what you could have done differently." If you don't have an individual therapist yet, I would strongly suggest you seek one out as an additional support as you go through this and maintain your sobriety.

And how would it feel if I truly got sober and didn’t fight for us?  If I just walked away like I don’t care. What message would that send? 

Again, you're not sending any message. She's going to do what she's going to do, and you will only suffer if you look for hidden meaning in any of it. You don't have to walk away from your marriage, but you do have to continue building a life for yourself and your kids while she's doing whatever she's doing. The kindest thing you can do for yourself is to release the idea that you have any control over the situation. Just like in sobriety, accept that you cannot change this, but you can change how you react to it.

That means no more conversations where you tell her "I know you're trying to get to me." You don't know that, and do you want to know the way to make an MLCer (or anyone, really) turn away from you really fast? Tell them you know what they're thinking or how they feel better than they know themselves. As you've already seen, it makes them good and mad, and doesn't do anything good for the LBS. She's an adult, so infantilizing her with comments about how she doesn't know what she's doing or she's making a mistake or she's going to regret her choices are not going to endear you to her. They're going to make her see you more as a roadblock to what she wants. As for telling her you love her and you're going to fight for her, you have to make your own choices there, but, again, look at the reaction you get when you say it and judge whether it's going to help you to keep saying it.

This is HARD, and being newly sober makes it harder. I'm really sorry you find yourself here, and I know no one is telling you what you want to hear, but we want to help. As XYZ said, the stories here with the purple icons are those of rebuilt marriages, not saved marriages.  You have to be in a place where you are healthy and whole enough on your own that you could rebuild your marriage if the time comes, and the way to get to that healthy and whole place is by taking care of yourself and your kids, learning who you are now on your own, and releasing the desire to control her or the situation. If you stand guard where you are now and focus your energy on fighting for her, that leaves no room to focus on you. Don't let yourself get lost in the rubble of her implosion.

She’s denying saying she doesn’t even know how to make her list private to others but me and that the people I heard that from must not be her friends on there. And adding the guys “making friends” she said you have no idea where I met these people through work, through her brother , through tinder for all I know. Which I said probably tinder and she flipped the firetruck out and cussed me out and locked herself in a bathroom yelling firetruck off go away. And I told her I know you’re trying to get to me and I get it but when you’re ready to talk and handle it. I love you and I am here. And I’m gonna fight for you

This is my dilemma.

[Baxter1]

To jump on to others I don’t think anything you do/don’t do makes a difference. My wife said the same thing about me not fighting for her. I’m not sure how you can fight for someone who, in her present state, doesn’t really care. I could buy every rose on the planet and it would mean nothing to her. She is in her own world so to speak. She may come out of this world in a couple of years, feel free to join the standers club but the cost of admission is patience, and a lot of it. All I can do at this point is wait and work on myself. Be a better person, she may admire what you’ve become, she may not. Either way you’re a new and improved version 2.0, that is a gift you give yourself.

[Reinventing]

I hope to get guidance on whether she needs me to fight harder or needs me to back off. When she does things so blatantly aimed at me and getting a reaction from me.

You didn't cause this so you can't fix it.

If she says you didn't fight for her, it's just another fault of yours on a long list so she can justify her fantasy life. You are bad = I can pursue a fantasy life without guilt.

Focus on you. There is no fighting, cajoling, or other ways to get them out of crisis mode.

If there was, we would for sure let you in on the secret.

[Ichoosefaith]

NAS.
I understand your thinking however making her friends list private to everyone other than me. I confirmed with like 6 mutual friends. They only see mutual and the main list says it’s private. But not to me. That is not an accident it is deliberate. That’s not what I assume that is a fact. Why else am I the only one who can see it?

It had a reason whether to hurt me or make me jealous or whatever. She wanted me and only me to see it.


Everything else you’ve said has merit. And again thank you for reaching out.

[WHY]

The harder you fight.  The more you’re feeding her narcissistic supply. 

Don’t do it.   It’s only going to make things worse. 

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/narcissistic-supply/

And get sober for you.  Not for her.   Not for anyone else.  For you.  And if you ever hope to attract her back once she’s through this.   If you’re drinking.   It won’t be that beacon of light.   

[KayDee]

NAS.
I understand your thinking however making her friends list private to everyone other than me. I confirmed with like 6 mutual friends. They only see mutual and the main list says it’s private. But not to me. That is not an accident it is deliberate. That’s not what I assume that is a fact. Why else am I the only one who can see it?
It had a reason whether to hurt me or make me jealous or whatever. She wanted me and only me to see it.
Everything else you’ve said has merit. And again thank you for reaching out.

I could answer this with my best guess, others could chime in with theirs, and then tomorrow, she could block you seeing this group, or fill her pages with pictures of Morgan Freeman, and then we'd all be back guessing again. That's what I meant about you being drawn into her confusion.  It won't make much difference to you in the long-run, because this week's unexplainable utterance or act, will be replaced - often by a contradictory one.

You ask if there is anything you can do. Others have eloquently outlined the 'working on you' aspect of this. I add, you can be kind (within strong boundaries) and keep to your values and integrity. Your W is not being kind to you. Allow yourself and others to do this for you, it will help you on your journey of recovery.

[JohnnyBravo]

Hi, ICF

I hate to say it, but whatever response you make can be twisted against you. If you fight harder, you're controlling and desperate, and she needs to leave. If you back off, you agree with her and don't care about the marriage, so she needs to leave. To borrow from Jurassic Park, "monster finds a way." That's why it's best to not try to twist your mind up understanding the why.

If somebody DOES want you to fight for the relationship, that's manipulative and an ultimatum, which isn't the mature way to go about it.

We're all here for you.

JB

[WHY]

Hi, ICF

I hate to say it, but whatever response you make can be twisted against you. If you fight harder, you're controlling and desperate, and she needs to leave. If you back off, you agree with her and don't care about the marriage, so she needs to leave. To borrow from Jurassic Park, "monster finds a way." That's why it's best to not try to twist your mind up understanding the why.

If somebody DOES want you to fight for the relationship, that's manipulative and an ultimatum, which isn't the mature way to go about it.

We're all here for you.

JB

Exactly this.  No matter what you do. She will hate and resent you for it.  The only diffs is, if you step away, she’ll still hate you, but you wont feed her narcissistic supply, which only makes things worse. 

If she gets a reaction out of you, she’ll continue to seek those reactions for her supply and keep doing it and escalate.  If you ignore it and disarm, she’ll probably/hopefully stop the behavior and move onto something else. 

And when I say ignore it, don’t actively make a big deal about ignoring it, because then she’ll know she’s still under your skin.  You need to reach a place of indifference and you’ll starve the supply over time. 

[Nas]

If she gets a reaction out of you, she’ll continue to seek those reactions for her supply and keep doing it and escalate. 

In honor of Nietzsche's birthday, I'd like to offer you this quote: "Most people are far too much occupied with themselves to be malicious."

At the risk of upsetting anyone, I believe it is a far too common occurrence that LBS break their own hearts even further by believing the myth that the actions and words of a fractured person in crisis are focused at all in any way toward the LBS. Plainly stated, the person in crisis isn't thinking about the LBS. At all. They are focused inward. It is a natural reaction for a heartbroken LBS to believe that their spouse is still factoring them into their choices, even when those choices now include lying, stealing, cheating, etc. It is a natural desire on the part of the newly BDed LBS to believe that their spouse is acting out in an attempt to make the LBS notice them.

We always say it's not personal, that the person in crisis would have done this to whomever they married, that it's not about us. That is true in all regards. It's never about the LBS. When the spouse is engaged in an affair, it's not about the LBS. When the spouse is cruising tinder, it's not about the LBS.  When the previously demure spouse starts wearing thigh high leather boots, it's not about the LBS. When the spouse converts religions, buys a motorcycle, quits their job, moves to South of France...it's not about the LBS. No matter what it looks like,  no matter how "obvious" it seems, it's not about the LBS.

Believing that anything they do is about you is zero benefit, 100% detrimental. Spending time watching her, looking for clues, wondering what it might mean if she makes this private or that public or posts this picture or deletes that picture, all that time wasted is nothing but wasted time.

She's too preoccupied with herself to be devising sly ways to get a rise out of you or hurt you. Her actions are hurtful, because she's unilaterally chosen to break the partnership you believed you were jointly building for many years. That decision was made by her, for her benefit, without your knowledge or input, and of course that is shocking at first and extremely painful. But you get to decide what to do with that pain. Taking the focus off what she's doing goes a long way to mitigating the hurt. Watching for hidden smoke signals or signs of a secret devious scheme to get you to chase her, react to her or fight for her only prolongs the agony.

[WHY]

Everything NAS is saying is 100% accurate.  In your case, I totally agree.  You’re not a factor in any of her decision making. 

However.  I’m dealing with a wallower.   And my MLCer has done things I know were meant to get a rise out of me (confirmed through snooping).   If I show no reaction, the behavior generally stops.

Either way, your actions are the same.  Stop watching her, and focus on you.   

[AlvinTheMaker]

Dear IChooseFaith,

If there was a pattern or behaviour that provided guaranteed "this saved my marriage"-results, everyone here would be sharing and following it.  But there is no pattern (apart of the "shock" that every LBS has faced). This community and countless others are living proof it.

I am not saying you should give up. On the contrary... In the end what matters is that you can be in peace with yourself regardless of what happens. Knowing you gave your best shot and you can move on with no regrets.

Alvin

[UrsaMajor]

NAS.
I understand your thinking however making her friends list private to everyone other than me. I confirmed with like 6 mutual friends. They only see mutual and the main list says it’s private. But not to me. That is not an accident it is deliberate. That’s not what I assume that is a fact. Why else am I the only one who can see it?

It had a reason whether to hurt me or make me jealous or whatever. She wanted me and only me to see it.


Everything else you’ve said has merit. And again thank you for reaching out.

You are talking about Fakebook, right? FakeBook has different "categories" of "friends" - i. e. "Acquaintances," "Friend," "Close Friends," etc.

She could have made her list private to "Friends,' thinking that you are in that list and forgetting that she may have, at one point, put you in the "Close Friends" category or she may have made it visible to only "Friends" and had the others in the "Acquaintance" category. She may also have her head stuffed so far up her .... fog... that she is using her belly button as a periscope and randomly clicked on something thinking that she has made her list invisible and has no freaking idea that you can still see it or........

The bottom line is that as long as you continue to try to taste green with your elbow and try to figure out why she is doing whatever it is that she is doing. you will continue to suffer.....

[Ichoosefaith]

Okay.

I keep trying to remember that there is no sense to make of things. It’s just so hard watching someone I’ve loved since I was 14 turn into someone so unlike who she’s always been. Even down to the music she listens to now.

I found a 10,000 dollar cashiers check made out to a specific persons name and an envelope containing at least another 10000 in cash. So she has drained her bank account for something. I searched for the persons name only thing in our area is a realtor an hour away. However why would the check be made to a realtor by name and not the company or an escrow. And last we discussed she was gonna try to keep our house and I was going to move out and she was going to use her 20 grand toward buying me out. Literally today she asked me about buying me out and asked if I’d call the bank saying they wouldn’t even tell her if they received her application so she said I had to call.

So I call waste my entire lunch break calling both mortgage companies who both told me she applied she would have to call they can’t give me any info.

And she hasn’t said anything to me about all the money or the money order obviously. But she’s still acting like the plan is for her to keep our house. But now she drained the account she was going to buy me out of.

I can’t begin to put any rationalization to all the things she’s done and ways she’s planted seeds or left breadcrumbs I think deliberately to try to mess with me or test me if I’m still checking in on her. But of course I am.

The words she has uttered in my face and the hurt she has already caused in the past six months ( mostly the past three ).

There has never been a more difficult thing I have had to deal with emotionally and mentally. And I just hope the woman I love isn’t lost forever. That she’s still in there under the monster.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Speaking about money... is that 20k shared wealth or her money only?  For example in my neighbourhood everything is shared unless you two have prenuptial agreement, and even it can be disputed under specific terms.

Also, why would you waste your lunch break for thing that promotes her goals. Nicing her way does nothing good. Let her do the work. If she has made application, of course the bank will respond only to her unless your name is on the application as well. If the bank needs something from you, they will contact you.

Love is a double-edged sword, and from my cheap seats it looks like you need outside help to make rational (=not love-driven) decisions to protect your future. If you have not yet hired a lawyer whom to turn and have advice on situations like these two , I would start NOW. 

Alvin

[UrsaMajor]

The fact that she has emptied her bank account (which is, most likely, community property since you are still married unless she had that money BEFORE you got married) reeks of some sort of MLC skullduggery to me.  Trying to forecast what she is doing or what her motivation is is like trying to taste green ... with your elbow. You can speculate and ass-u-me but, until you have hard and cold facts, you are just tossing a dart over your shoulder backwards and looking to see where it landed this time...

Mid-Lifers are known for their financial antics and attempts to make it look like they are owed something.  If her accounts are emptied, she will look "poor"  to the court and guess who has to pay the price for that.... the dude looking at you in the mirror..... unless you can show that there were actions on her part that caused this situation.

If I were in your shoes, as Alvin said. I'd be looking for a lawyer now because to me, she's ramping up the voltage now and you can expect that things are going to be even more .... uhmmmmmm  ..... interesting.

[Treasur]

I agree with the guys about a lawyer. You have interests, money and a future life to safeguard. And you are dealing with someone connected to those things who is not thinking about your needs at all….so you have to do so more.

It is early days for you post BD, so how you feel is normal. Not helpful but normal.
But now is a time to prioritise facts over feelings bc the facts stay the same regardless of how we feel about them, don’t they?

My biggest advice to you right now is that you start deliberately pausing before acting to consider what ‘belongs’ on your side of the street and what does not, what is your job as a stbxh fired from your old job and what is not. And as a clue, if you did not get a voice or vote or choice about something, it is probably not your job to get involved in dealing with it. Her application? Not your problem. Her money legally? Not your problem if she spends it on wild parties or gives it to a cats home. Where or how she lives? Not your problem. What IS yours is how you protect your financial future, where and how you live, what plans and contingencies you put in place to reduce the effect her actions have on your wellbeing…..

What are you actually doing right now to take care of yourself and your future?
And are you still sober? And how are you looking after your own wellbeing and that of your kids? Bc every minute that is focused on her, every lunch hour, is practically speaking NOT focused on you or your kids. And you can’t get that time or investment back.

And what civil unemotional phrase are you going to use next time to say No, that’s not my problem to deal with?

[Ichoosefaith]

Treasur

I am sorry I thought I responded to this already. I am still sober 190 days today. I am trying to just be the best parent and man I can be. I have gained some of the lost weight back and been working out a lot and eating a lot and taking vitamins. Trying to put my mask on first.

But It’s our youngest birthday weekend and Mom couldn’t even be bothered to participate she was in her bedroom ALL night didn’t meet the friends that were over or anything. Came out grabbed some pizza and took it back to her room with her.

It’s sad because this is not the woman, mother she’s always been.

[Treasur]

Wow, well done on the sobriety, my friend, that’s impressive. I hope you feel proud of yourself.

Yes, it is sad. And bewildering to see I’m sure. Remarkable really how any adult can be so self-centred. In a strange way, it seems to be that the more we LBS see this kind of behaviour - bc it is SO obviously not about us or caused by us - it becomes easier to accept that this is how it is. LBS then tend to start going their own way more, organising these kinds of things without involving the MLCer or when it doesn’t matter if they are there or not. We change our expectations and so we are less surprised. I think as a parent it must always feel a bit sad that your kids don’t have the kind of parent they deserve and you want for them….but that is also why you being the best sane sober solid parent you can be is so important. And I hope your little one had a good time regardless of the MLC teenager in the attic!

[Baxter1]

ICF
Sounds about right, they are so self absorbed and in their own head that nothing else matters! Sad for your child but good for you for making the day about your daughter and not the MLCer.

[Ichoosefaith]

https://www.facebook.com/masonseason2?mibextid=LQQJ4d

We had mediation two days ago. It was the hardest thing ever. Putting values to a life we’ve built over so long. She attempted to go for spousal and child support but both were denied as when the calculator was filled out she would end up owing me money so obviously she decided to drop the pursuit. I could have continued but it isn’t worth dragging things out and more legal costs(however it would feel good to receive a small amount from her just to be able to ) she doesn’t speak she isolates and she neglects all responsibilities household or parenting.

I fear she’s ruining her life and I don’t know if I can be there when she comes around.

I’m so scared for her. I’ve found various prescriptions and injections that would indicate she has had some medical procedure I don’t know about. I’m leaning toward tubal ligation or abortion or both.

Where is the woman I love? Is she gone forever?

[Baxter1]

ICF
She’s still in there! Under the anger and monstering she is still there. I keep reminding myself of that.
It’s gives me some peace to know that Original W would never act in this way, it’s very difficult to see that she’s in pain and acting out in so many ways.

[Ichoosefaith]

Baxter

Where?
I can’t see her. It gets angrier and uglier every single day. I believe she’s in there too but I can’t see her at all.
And I don’t know where or when I’m going to ever see her again.

Like how long is this monster going to be in control?

It’s fricken hard man.

[FrenchHusband]

Baxter

Where?
I can’t see her. It gets angrier and uglier every single day. I believe she’s in there too but I can’t see her at all.
And I don’t know where or when I’m going to ever see her again.

Like how long is this monster going to be in control?

It’s fricken hard man.

The theory here as I understand it is that your W is currently prisoner inside the body, and Monster/Inner wounded child has taken control. Sometimes you can see glimpses of the W you love, first interacting with other people, then sometimes with your children when she reconnects to them.

Yes you don't know whether and when the damned fog will lift, that is why for now and the future, best thing you can do is detach, focus on you, your children and what is dear to you, and enjoy all the good that life is bringing to you.

Edit : when you are facing the Monster, you may find fruitful to set up boundaries : it will make you feel better, I promise. This skill is also useful when dealing with teenagers as I see you have 2 daughters. From my side, I have seen many similarities between my W's MLC and my daughters' teenager crisis ; actually it is exactly the day that I saw same behaviour - D16 refusing my goodnight kiss after a good evening together - that I have been able to understand my W was under MLC

[Treasur]

ICF
She’s still in there! Under the anger and monstering she is still there. I keep reminding myself of that.
It’s gives me some peace to know that Original W would never act in this way, it’s very difficult to see that she’s in pain and acting out in so many ways.

No one wants to take that comfort away entirely from any LBS. However I’m not sure that the narrative that the ‘real’ spouse is ‘hidden’ or ‘still in there’ is entirely accurate either from a behavioural and psychological pov. And believing so can lead some of us sometimes to excuse behaviour which is not ok or deny how things are bc of how we think they were.

I think it’s probably more accurate to say that another part of our spouse is in the driving seat, a part that came to the fore under certain conditions. For some here, that’s the kind of profound psychological fracturing that comes with crisis or perhaps deep depression to the point of disassociation. For others, it’s their response to a set of life circumstances like an affair or other difficulties in their life, their way of dealing with whatever is going n for them. But it IS imho part of the mix of their character/personality - just as one recognises that as an LBS in this kind of situation, sometimes parts of one’s own responses can be surprising - even if it is one we never saw before in them or in ourselves. I know that this pov is not a commonly held one here perhaps, and not always a comfortable one, but it does hold water psychologically imho, the idea that each of us has parts. When I doubted it, I could remind myself that experience had shown me what I was capable of, or not, under the most extreme pressure in my life and I still could not have done some of the things my former h did. It just wasn’t in my toolbox, imperfect as I am. But it was in his unbeknownst to me. Maybe even unbeknownst to him. It did not serve me though to try to pretend otherwise bc what was happening was actually happening and it created a situation that I had to find a way to deal with even if it made no sense to me at all.

I suspect some of these character traits exist on a spectrum….entitlement, avoidance, rage, blame and deceit. When life is easy, they are not needed. When it isn’t, they can climb in the driving seat. It’s not uncommon to see FOO patterns that sowed the seeds for how humans deal with stuff when life gets hard either. For those who heal from a crisis, MLCers or indeed we LBS, I suspect it takes conscious choice to not feed some parts of that character….and that’s hard work so perhaps some never do. So, perhaps it is more accurate to say that this is part, if not all, of who your wife was and is. Jmo.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

Yes you don't know whether and when the damned fog will lift, that is why for now and the future, best thing you can do is detach, focus on you, your children and what is dear to you, and enjoy all the good that life is bringing to you.

Great words to follow and I do feel your pain. I have been on this site for over thirteen years, and it is littered with stories of shattered marriages and broken families. I went back and read your opening and something really stuck out to me.

But BD was 4/20/23 when she said to me there is no us if I continue drinking ( which yea I was drinking and isolating in depression especially once we got here and I had no family or friends ) however I have been sober since that day and she has gotten mean and pushed me away and said things about how she’s always taken care of others like her siblings and our children ( which the first was born when we were 18 )

My ex told me that I needed to get counseling and I did. Just like your w, she got meaner. So maybe the truth is that your w was using your drinking as a vehicle for her escape and your sobriety denied her excuse. By the way, congratulations on your recovery. Playing it in my head now, I could see my ex telling someone, "I told him too go see a counselor, but he refused so I had no choice." Maybe your wife didn't want you sober, just just wanted to make a demand that she thought you would refuse and that would give her a legitimate excuse to leave.

she needs to put herself first and not worry about others feelings and needs to prove to herself she can build a life for her and so on.

How many times have we heard this statement. Mine was "I have always put others before me and now I want to be first." Whether it is spiritual or a lack of a chemical that feeds the brain, something in our system pushes an extreme impulse that they are missing out on something, that something better is just around the corner, and you and I are intentionally keeping them from achieving Nirvana. I may not know the source of your w's issues, but I do know that nothing that you or I can do can to fix them.

I fear she’s ruining her life and I don’t know if I can be there when she comes around.

Her choice and consequences for her choices. The thing to fear is that she drags you and the kids down with her and that is why you need to let her go. I can see you are a fighter and will go the extra mile for her. But instead of focusing energy, time and thought on her, do it all for you and your family. I think you are too much there for her. Trust me, I was there too. If she said good morning on a Tuesday, I was already thinking maybe that good morning was the start of things for the better. I was always watching and listening and feverishly waiting for her to reclaim her old self.

Nicing her way does nothing good.

Maybe all of us guys should get this tattooed on our body somewhere. Being nice often brings more monster, because it brings with it a large amount of contempt. I am not saying that you treat her like dirt, but don't go out of your way to make things better for her either. She is playing games with you where she makes the rules in her favor. You can choose to play her game and lose or just don't play with her at all.

I can’t see her. It gets angrier and uglier every single day. I believe she’s in there too but I can’t see her at all.

Then stop looking at her. This is not the person you want to be around anyway. She disrespects you and your life. When she decides to act like a decent person towards you and your children then you can look at her. She can be the angriest person on the planet, but that is her choice not yours.

I really hope you continue to work on yourself and heal. Your self care and focus on your children is the best thing you can do for you, your kids, and even her. I think you are in a good place, but her actions, her emotions, and her words still sting and reopen wounds. That is normal and I remember the pain just as well. The more you can rebuild yourself and regain your bearings and power, the less her actions will have on you.

Be good to yourself and have a great weekend,

(((Ready)))

[xyzcf]

Quote from: Baxter1 on November 09, 2023, 04:34:36 AM
ICF
She’s still in there! Under the anger and monstering she is still there. I keep reminding myself of that.
It’s gives me some peace to know that Original W would never act in this way, it’s very difficult to see that she’s in pain and acting out in so many ways.

"She's still in there"...every situation is different. In several return stories, members have stated that post crisis, their spouse becomes him/herself again and sometimes they say they are even better versions of themselves. During their crisis, they are unrecognizable at times..but yes, I believe that they are still in there.

The difficulty for me was that he left and did not love me anymore, did not want me to share in his life anymore. I continued and continue to love him. Perhaps it is only the man I knew for 35 years that I love but my goodness, whatever happened to him, to us, was traumatic and very real and very damaging. But that doesn't change that I love him...differently now.....but that never went away for me.

Stayed was a long time Hero's Spouse member and her marriage was reconciled years ago. Her husband wrote a letter that many of us found helpful in understanding what was happening with our spouse. I had the opportunity to meet him twice, and his willingness to answer our questions about his crisis was really important in my understanding of what happened to my husband. Again, each situation is different, the end result is different, the time frame is different...but there are also many many similarities.

His letter can be found at https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1180.msg66087#msg66087

Their crisis is a total break from who they were...but yes, IMHO, they are still in there. The LBSer gets to decide if and when they wish to interact with their spouse, that is totally our decision. It cannot be based upon the wishful thinking that somehow, we can change what will happen. We have absolutely no control over the future or their crisis.

But they are in a crisis...that is the bottom line for me...and it has caused a tremendous psychological break that impacts everyone who loves them. I do understand the "they are still in there" that is often expressed on Hero's Spouse...the reality is, they may never break out of, as french husband stated "the prisoner inside the body".

[Baxter1]

XY-

Thank you for sharing this letter!

[Ichoosefaith]

I read all of the wisdom on here and I think it helps. It’s just incredible impossible to handle.

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

I don’t know and it’s all absolutely terrible.

After being together 14 years and best friends over 20, I wish I could just talk to her and ask why? And wtf are you doing?

But again I understand I cannot and that she probably doesn’t have the answers and it would all just be met with hostility at this point.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

At this point I am just so exhausted in my heart. Like loving her is killing me

[xyzcf]

At this point I am just so exhausted in my heart. Like loving her is killing me

It is surreal. We know the person who we shared our lives with for 20 years...we do not know who this person is now.

The things they are doing, in my wildest dreams I could never have imagined that he could do..that his morals and values could change so very much.

I always thought, I didn't stop loving because he did...doesn't work that way.

I found that not having much knowledge of his life helped me...so looking at her dating profile or facebook page or having freinds tell you about what she is up to can be very painful...

These are hard hard times....working through the feelings and the grief takes time.

The support you get here from others who have gone through what you are expereincing will help you. Seeing a therapist will help you. Acceptance will help you.

The knowledge that this is not about you and nbot about your marriage will help you.

But it takes time to really incorporate these things into our psyche.

[KayDee]

I read all of the wisdom on here and I think it helps. It’s just incredible impossible to handle.

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

Please consider going black out on all this. It is extremely hurtful to see these things and IMO her actions are ridiculous. Sorry, I know it hurts beyond belief, but just think about how crazy this is. It's like she is in some weird bubble, advertising a vacancy for a new long term partner, while she is still living with you, her, up until recently, loving partner of many years, her best-friend of two decades. Thinking it is A OK to just segue into something new and committed, without mourning a long-term partnership?  I get it, I have my own brand of ridiculous over here. I keep thinking (like many of us here) Who does that? Someone in crisis and emotional chaos. Chances are this will keep getting more bonkers and there will be cycling too and you will get even more exhausted.

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

Well, if this is true, it is classic looking to others to solve one's issues. It could also be that she is desperately looking for A N Other to validate her. Or, it could be something else. It's likely she may not know.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

From my experience there a not many good things in this crisis, because there seems to be a lot of bad decisions made by the MLCer.  I guess you could ask this question about a whole bunch of unwise, impulsive, destructive, selfish and immature things she may, or may not, do. It's not really in your control.

Yes, it is really, really terrible. I have no idea how people living with the crisis person keep sane. Your health must come first. It really seems like you need to have some space and time away from this. Maybe others with live-ins can assist.

[mcm64d]

I am sorry you, and all of us, are going through this. I am no expert for sure but I can listen. I can reply. And I am here for you and anyone here. There is no reason for this. It hurts it sucks and it does not matter whether or not it’s deserved. It is what it is. I’ve had no contact for 5 days now and I’m only 3 months into this, but not hearing or seeing the nasty or emotionless things she says or types has been wonderful. Thankfully I am only on LinkedIn so social media isn’t and issue. Maybe that is the way to go? Regardless, love yourself first and foremost.

[UrsaMajor]

I was sent a screenshot from a friend of W dating profile updated to say she’s looking for a long term relationship. Like wtf. She hasn’t even moved out of our house!!!  Part of me thinks it’s just to mess with me because she knows I’m still snooping. But part of me wonders if she is really looking for something serious.

"Doctor, it REALLY hurts when I stab myself in the nose with this Barbecue fork!"
"Well, what if you were to STOP STABBING YOURSELF IN THE NOSE WITH THE BARBECUE FORK?!?!?"

Partly because all of her plans to “prove to herself she can do this without relying on anyone” have failed. She didn’t get the alimony and child support she went for so now she’s looking for “long term relationship” to have someone to pay for things. So she doesn’t have to continue to work the 50 hour weeks she’s been working trying to fight me for the house.

We can speculate as to why she is going this until the cows come home and probably still not hit on the correct answer. Yes, it might be that she is looking for someone to foot her bills... it might be that her short-term escapades have been singularly unsatisfactory and she has attracted a group of "wham! Bam! Thank you ma'am" types into her life.... it might be because the sky is blue and the moon is made out of green cheese.... Bottom line is that it DOES NOT MATTER why she is advertising this. What matters is that you are giving it a lot of space in your head rent-free and to your own detriment. You have been sent a screen shot for whatever reason that contains information that is painful. What do YOU intend to do to alleviate that pain? A new boundary (towards the "friend") might be in order like "I really do not need to know what MLCstbxW is advertising so please stop sharing this kind of thing with me."

I don’t know and it’s all absolutely terrible.

Is it a good thing if she dates ? Maybe then she’ll see the flaws in someone else and whatnot idk.

Is it a good idea if she sticks her hand in a garbage disposal? Probably not.... Her dating (and yours as well at this point) is like putting a band-aid over a sucking chest wound. It might help psychologically for the short term but it does absolutely NOTHING to help one heal and, in fact, often disguises the fact that the underlying wound is becoming more infected and gangrenous. Until she CHOOSES to actively get tot eh root of the REAL issues that have caused the crisis and actually DEAL with those issues, it won't matter who she is with or what she wants.

That is the thing about MLC - anecdotal evidence here seems to say that there is normally an affair, either emotional or physical, on the part of the Mid-Lifer (not always but often and it could be an "affair" with a hobby or work or ANYTHING else external that gives the Mid-Lifer thir shot of endorphins) - but no matter how far they run away or how fast or who  they run with... there they are and NOTHING internally has changed. The external sources of "happy" soon become monotonous and loose their sparkle and the Mid-Lifer is back to Square 1..... Until they go <splat> on the rocks at their rock bottom and consciously CHOOSE to deal with the infection (going back to my war wound analogy), the infection will continue to fester and cause pain....

The other part about this is that it goes again to show that their crisis has NOTHING to do with us or our marriage. They could have been married to the perfect sait of a spouse and it would have still happened at some point - why? Because they are constantly trying to fill an internal void with external jollies. Until they learn to fill that internal void on their own with their own self-love, their own self-soothing, their own self-esteem, they will be like a broken washing machine... Wash, rinse, spin, repeat....

[FrenchHusband]

Yes, it is really, really terrible. I have no idea how people living with the crisis person keep sane. Your health must come first. It really seems like you need to have some space and time away from this. Maybe others with live-ins can assist.

I agree that living with at-home person under MLC is not easy and can bring damages. The best advices I got in this forum regarding this situation, additionally to the general ones (detach, GAL, focus on oneself, protect oneself & finances, etc.) are "set up boundaries" and "grumpy aunt policy". These 2 advices were not easy to implement for me, I am still improving to implement them in daily life, it becomes easier each day with failures-learn.

grumpy aunt policy
The best analogy that helps me to understand the MLC is the teenager crisis : many behaviours are similar IMO. But I can not handle W as I handle my daughters : I am not W's father, I am not the adult responsible who takes life-decisions for her. So, as W is an adult self responsible, I try to give her the same respect, kindness and politeness as I would for a grumpy old aunt that I would receive in our home. And I do that without expecting her to reciprocate (or at least I tell my brain to do so). For the share of household and parental chores, I say what I do and I do what I say. When W is doing things and I see them, I let her know that I have seen and I appreciate it. Around BD I was doing 90% of household chores, now it is back to 60-60 : I don't pay attention to the exact figures, sometimes me or W is doing extra chores.

Since 1 month I have decide to go in "No snooping". So I don't try anymore to check what W is doing or thinking : I don't ask, I don't blame, I give it less and less thought. I try to live as if she would never recover. Most of the time W does not tell me where she goes and I happen to learn where she was. In the first days after this decision I had a big temptation to snoop again, with time it makes me feel better, in the last days I saw that W is more peaceful, less wary towards me.

set up boundaries
that is a new skill for me so I had to understand what is the difference between boundaries, ultimatum, consequences. I see it is very useful to set up boundaries in order to minimize the damages done by at-home person under MLC.

Examples of boundaries I use with success in daily life :

• when I want to talk to W and I see her responding badly, I say in a light mode :"I see you are not well now, we can discuss this topic later when you feel better". Usually she calms down and we can discuss serenely
• when we are discussing together and she begins blaming or monstering, I say that I will be happy to hear what she has to say when she is better, then I leave the room
• when W is using her phone during meal, I reminder gently that we use no phone during meals together (not used it since many months)
• when W is very late in the evening, I send her a text asking to show sign of life, then when she comes back I say to W that next time I will call the police department : that happened only once, there was no "next time"

[Baxter1]

FH-

Grumpy Aunt, I love that. Right in the beginning I used to do a little snooping. Not any more, I feel that it is invasive and sometimes I don’t think I want to know what she is up to.

[FaithWalker]

FH-

Grumpy Aunt, I love that. Right in the beginning I used to do a little snooping. Not any more, I feel that it is invasive and sometimes I don’t think I want to know what she is up to.

I snooped a lot too in the beginning.  When I stopped my snooping is when my healing was really able to begin.

[Ichoosefaith]

Hey y’all hope you had a great thanksgiving.

So yeah mine spends every moment home in her room, she’s moving out next week so I’m hoping things will begin to settle. She has so much hatred toward me. She posts so much slander and bullying memes about me online. I am done looking at them but the reason I bring it up is that for months she has publicly called me a piece of $h!te and a narcissist. And made a lot of fuss about how terrible I am. And I am afraid when the fog lifts she will not be able to face the embarrassment of getting back with me because of how terribly she portrayed me during all this. Like too much pride.

[KayDee]

They all do pretty awful things ICF. Not to diminish the effect of what your W has done. It is pretty despicable and if it wasn't so hurtful, you could roll your eyes at how immature it is. I imagine it says more about her than it does about you to anyone reading the comments. I guess we all ask this question sooner or later. And I personally think it may be a factor on whether or not the crisis person seeks to reconcile. The mending of so much damage may seem impossible to them. And, IMO, I think there's an aspect of bridge burning in their behaviour too. Like it's easier to burn everything up, then there is no way back. The question I asked myself was - do I want to be in relationship with someone who did such cruel things to me and did not have the courage to apologise and make some amends? That person would still be broken, IMO and therefore, the relationship would fail again. So, as simple as it sounds, they either do or they don't. And we can't control that. They have to do their own reflection and healing.

Sorry it's so painful and you have to endure this. Try not to engage with the 'monster' who posts on social media. As in, don't read the posts, and tell others you don't want to know. You will find more inner peace.

[UrsaMajor]

She posts so much slander and bullying memes about me online. I am done looking at them but the reason I bring it up is that for months she has publicly called me a piece of $h!te and a narcissist. And made a lot of fuss about how terrible I am. And I am afraid when the fog lifts she will not be able to face the embarrassment of getting back with me because of how terribly she portrayed me during all this. Like too much pride.

And this is YOUR problem because?

Sorry to be so blunt but that is called "being held responsible for one's actions." She did it and it will be up to her to make amends. If she chooses not to do so, that tells you what you need to know about what would happen during any future reconnection/reconciliation attempt....

Repeat after me.....

[Ichoosefaith]

She moved out today. After 7 months of this she moved into her place today.

I know it’s what must happen for the healing to begin and hopefully so she can stop hating me so much. Or at least so I can detach better. But it still hurts like hell.

Gonna go home after work tonight no kids no dogs no wife and half my stuff missing.

[zartheit]

I'm sorry. Even knowing this is what must happen doesn't diminish the hurt. And it hurts so very much.

The day I came home to an empty house was probably the worst night of my life. I was able to talk with my brother as I wandered around the house sobbing out each trigger, including an empty room with only a single picture of me. Someone asked me who I admired for having confidence, poise, and being cool. The only person that I could think of was Austin Powers. They told me to print out a picture of that person (i.e., AUSTIN POWERS!) and put it next to my solitary photo and to strive to embody those traits. It was overwhelmingly ridiculous but I still have that picture on my desk to this day. That was a little over a year ago.

One surprising thing to me, was while I was still in immense pain, something shifted. I no longer felt as if I were in a pressure cooker. I still hurt but that noise, the static, the buzzing, had relented. Maybe not all the way, but truly a burden was lifted from me. I hope that you may experience similar relief over the coming days.

Again, I'm truly sorry.

[Reinventing]

Agree. You are in one of the toughest parts the LBS goes through. Whatever coping mechanisms you can bring to fore, bring them on full force to help you through this part.

[Ichoosefaith]

One surprising thing to me, was while I was still in immense pain, something shifted. I no longer felt as if I were in a pressure cooker. I still hurt but that noise, the static, the buzzing, had relented. Maybe not all the way, but truly a burden was lifted from me. I hope that you may experience similar relief over the coming days.

Thank you so much. I don’t know if she’s ever coming back to the real world or if she’s lost forever but I know it starts with the “pressure cooker” being turned off for both of us.

I have (as I’m sure all of us here have) always been her husband and always planned my life with this person. And it’s so damn hard trying to figure out who I am and what my life looks like without them.

[Reinventing]

I have (as I’m sure all of us here have) always been her husband and always planned my life with this person. And it’s so damn hard trying to figure out who I am and what my life looks like without them.

Yes, it really is as fundamental as figuring out who we are now that our life partner in on a different path than our previous joined path. I still refer to that time as being reduced to dust and having to rebuild (reinvent) myself. I didn't even really feel like a human being at times. I had reduced peripheral vision and became extra careful driving because the whole world seemed strange and my brain was on overload, yet couldn't focus on anything very long.

Once I connected the idea that I responded physiologically with my adrenal glands pumping out adrenalin, that's when I became serious about exercising to burn the effects from high adrenalin levels off. I also became serious about finding what other coping strategies worked for me and doing more of those.

My whole body was responding in a state that I was in high alert/danger and so I did things that helped me have breaks from that physiological state and train myself back to my normal state. Relatively early on, that became my singular focus because I simply didn't want to live in that pain anymore.

There was me in this physiological state and then me managing myself so I could heal. I was implementing my care plan that I was also figuring out along the way and that slowly changed along the way.

It felt like I was like clawing myself back to normal stasis, inch by inch. And with each inch, my emotions began to get better (with lots of spurts and starts). But when I had just a few moments of relief (normality), I became even more determined to get back to my normal level of happiness. And whatever was associated with elevating or prolonging the pain was eliminated or reduced. I knew I could always add those back in later

And I am forever grateful to those who helped along the way; they literally saved my life.

[Treasur]

I am so sorry for how painful that must have been.
We talk about BD here like it’s a single event but truthfully, for most of us, it is a series of events with a BD flavour. Sometimes they are big and carry a predictably big effect; sometimes they are smaller but still carry a big punch. There is no way through them but going through them unfortunately whilst trying to do whatever you need to do to keep going until you get to the other side. And keeping that spark of hope that there will be an other side, even when you doubt it or can’t see what it looks like, and that you will not always feel how you feel right now.

What I think you know instinctively is that living in an emotional pressure cooker is not a good place to be. Sometimes tbh we don’t entirely realise the cost until the pressure eases. Many of us found that, although it was not what we wanted, there was an easing that came after they left, a chance to lick our wounds a bit and breathe. I hope that over the next few days you get the chance to do that.

[Ichoosefaith]

I’m going to be honest. There are days and days that feel like I’m only alive because I have my two D’s. Like a sad realization that I can’t even end the pain because they need me. So I’m just living this existence for the sake of other people. I go through cycles where I want to get through it all and a lot where I want to give up. Where I’m 35 and since I was 14 years old I have loved this woman and never wanted a life without her. But now I’m forced to live it. And also live it sober. And though I’m proud I no longer drink deep down I know it would make it hurt less ( or at least that’s the addict in me ).

I try to have hope and remember this ain’t about me but it’s hard when the attacks and the words are so personal. When it’s all directed at me and pointed as my fault. I have my own guilt and shame for actions I’ve done and my part in it. But to have her act as though we were nothing. To just treat me this way after so long so cold and careless and it’s so easy for her to just do all of it.
Not only has the person she was died she’s been replaced with someone who would laugh at my pain and continuously joke about it and flaunt it all around but weirdly still hide and lie about so much.

I knew this part of her existed I saw it when we were teenagers like 16-17 years old. I just thought it wasn’t there anymore. How naive I was to think we could escape it. I would give or do anything to save her if she’s still in there. But everyone says I can’t. There’s nothing I can do. And as a husband as a man who believes in real love and that that is in fact what we have it doesn’t sit right with me. This can’t be how our story ends after all we’ve been through.

I don’t know how to not love her.

And I don’t know how to give up. That’s not something I’ve ever done before.

[xyzcf]

What we had was special...familiar, comfortable  and felt so very secure.

The place we are in when they leave is unknown, cold, dark, and affects our body's physiology as well as our emotional well being.

Eventually, we find a way around this pain, this agony, this loss...but it takes some help. A good therapist, perhaps medication, new friendships, perhaps some new hobbies or places to explore...if we can, we try to stay open to "new" things even when we feel like shutting down.

There really is nothing we can do about them. There is much we can do about us. The "depression" we feel blocks our energy and drags us down, nothing seems interesting...we miss the love we once shared so very much.

I am glad that you have your daughters. Something that was said to me when I was in a very bad place by a poster here was "xyzcf, your daughter has already lost one parent. She cannot lose you too"...many years later, I remember those words pushing me out of the inertia I felt..lack of desire, lack of anything.

As you know, many many people on this site feel as you do...and many, many more over the years have over come this loss and healed...and resumed their life in a meaningful way.

Things that helped me (and each person will find their own):

Exercise...walking every day combined with yoga
My faith and church
Learning to play golf...when I would address the ball...for that brief moment my mind would clear briefly...I could recognize that moment in time and eventually they became more the norm..shutting off the waves of pain that seemed to take over my whole life.
Volunteering with children who have been abused
Travel to new places
Meeting and sharing with other LBser
Rescuing a dog who actually rescued me
Hope, hope that I would be ok regardless
Eventually acceptance of what is.

I hope that you will find that crack that will let light into your life and your heart. Watch for it, it may be the briefest moment but if you recognize these moments, they will grow and become more with time and the bad moments will become less.

Very good that you continue to avoid alcohol. That is hard as well and you are being successful. That is really good for you and your daughters!

[MadLuv]

I can feel your pain and we have all been there and I wish there was some magic to help and ease it, but the only way to get to the other side of pain is through it.  Your so early in.

The first year is just the most horrid pain and just trying to grasp this is even happening.

The second year you start to calm a bit, but anxiety and sleeping are still an issue and you play through things and ruminate on your life.

The third year is when you accept this is your life now and it is sad to have to accept, but you do. You will laugh again and start to really enjoy the little things.

It’s hard. No matter how it plays out. You planned a life with someone  that chose to end that and you had no choice in the matter and how they are handling it is unfair and often beyond cruel. It changes who you thought they were and what your past was.

My therapist said, it was real tor you and that’s all that matters. I told her but if it wasn’t real for him than what I thought was real wasn’t. That I think is what he grapple with. The more you read and understand the dynmic of depression, cover or overt narcissism, mlc you will have better understanding and also find some calm on that you can’t help someone that doesn’t want to be helped. They have to want to help themselves.

[Treasur]

I would echo what xyzcf said. That was my experience too. For quite a while, I couldn’t live in the past bc it hurt too much and I couldn’t live in the future bc I couldn’t see it, so I had to teach myself to live the best I could in the present day. Sometimes in the hour tbh 

And just as xyzcf described, moments came that let bits of light in. Tiny ones at first, then bigger ones. Things that perhaps no one else but me even noticed….a lone daffodil on a long walk, realising I’d just spent a couple of hours digging in a new garden and not thought about my then h, being able to read a book, coffee with a friend where the conversation had nothing to do with my grief and felt normal.

Imho it works just like sobriety….a day at a time. Some days are better than others, that’s all. It’s a hell of an achievement that you have stayed sober, my friend, remarkable. And I hope you feel proud of that. But it also means you can trust yourself that you have the toolbox for this too bc it’s a similar recovery process. Tbh a lot of the basic 12 step work can be used in this kind of recovery too. Do you have a support group or a sober buddy or a decent IC to walk with you as you figure your new normal out?

Imho you don’t have to stop loving her, you just have to be open to the possibility of loving her differently and doing different things with those feelings. Like living sober, just the same. And just like living sober, I’m not going to BS you that all of those feelings you feel magically disappear…..you just slowly learn how to build a life despite them. Most of us here will admit that even years on we have moments of sorrow or disbelief, moments when we miss what we had….and that’s ok (well, doable perhaps more than ok)….what matters is the balance of moments over time and how they build.

Your point about giving up? Well, some of us struggled with that too so if it’s any comfort you are not alone in that either. I think each of us needs to find our own way to reframe what ‘not giving up’ means in our new situation….what we can do with what is in our control. Bc some things in life are not….i find it easier to see that now as an older person than I did in my 30s….but it is true, I think. Sometimes we are not in charge of the hand we are dealt to play with, but we are almost always in more charge than we feel in how we play the hand we have. And that includes what we expose ourselves to at different times in our lives….i have sober friends for instance who years ago could not be in a pub, but who find it no big deal now to be around others drinking. If you find being exposed to unkind behaviour or words from her distressing right now - and it sounds as if you might - it’s ok to choose to limit your exposure to them, to learn to walk away or simply have less contact with her for a while until you find your feet. You can’t control her behaviour, but you absolutely have the right to say No thanks to being exposed to it if that’s what you need. Again, now that you are living sober, it’s not very different from what you have doubtless had to do with old drinking chums…you can’t control their drinking, or why they do it, only decide what works for the current sober you and what doesn’t.

And when you find your feet a bit more, it will become easier for you to see that other peoples’ cruelty or anger or blame or deceit towards us is very rarely about us at all….it’s about how they deal with being them in their skin in their own life….just as we each find a way of being in our own skin. Are you perfect or were you a perfect husband? Probably not…none of us are, are we? But did any of your flaws warrant this? Probably not…bc it is about her flaws, not yours…and hers to figure out for herself as a person and a parent. And your own path forward from here is much the same.

My best advice, my friend, is a day at a time.
What will you do today that might let a crack of light in?

[KayDee]

It helped me to understand that grieving is a form of depression. And that what happens to us is a form of complicated grief. It doesn't change the feelings, but it did attach some meaning to my feeling of deep sadness and, at times, emptiness. There is a reason you feel this way and you will not feel this way forever.

You said in previous posts that your W had moved out, and I wondered then how you are still exposed to her cold and cruel behaviour. There is a lot of to and fro on the forum about contact, but, IMO, in circumstances where behaviour (direct or indirect) has a detrimental effect, a period of black-out is not only good for healing, it supports damage limitation on both fronts. Treasur's post about applying your sobriety skills to the situation is a brilliant observation. You might consider a period of abstinence from your W for your own well-being. I promise you, there are other people out there that love and appreciate you. Let them embrace you while you get back on your feet.

[Ichoosefaith]

Thank you all for your support and wisdom. I read it all and understand it. Applying it and fighting the spiral and bad feelings is another thing entirely.

I know it’s not about me. And that’s why I feel like I’m abandoning her by not going after her, but she isn’t there right now. And so the woman is be going after only sees red when she sees or hears from me.

She moved me across the country to leave me so I don’t have old pals or people here to lean on. I’m just rawdogging this thing called life with no support system no team and no one on my side here. We were both born and raised 2200 miles from here so I’m stuck for the moment figuring it out alone.

Don’t know if it’s allowed but below is my fb link I’ve been not great at getting on here and responding. I mostly just read everyone else’s stories and find comfort in the similarities that this in fact what I am facing. And I am not crazy.

Sorry but the link had to be removed as it leads to a personal FB page and personally identifying information is not allowed - UM

[Ichoosefaith]

I am getting better at detaching and understanding this is not about me however the one thing I struggle with is ho no contact is good?

 I get that we don’t have any productive conversations so that part is good but if I want my wife back how is disappearing and not contacting her going to do that. If I am out of sight out of mind. How will she ever want to come back if she doesn’t see me or hear from me ?

[FaithWalker]

ICF, there are many people that I don't see very often, or at all any more and yet I still think about them.

Right now, initiating the contact like you said is her only seeing red or feeling like you are being intrusive towards her.

Any time I contacted my xH for anything other than what was required (as we had kids together) was seen as pressure or manipulation to him.  So I chose to mirror him.  If he wished me Happy Birthday, I would text a few months later on his birthday and wish him the same.  If he didn't, then I didn't. 

[Ichoosefaith]

Update:

Today I signed what should be the final stipulation I’m in our dissolution. I still can’t believe this is where we are.

Her and new OM seem to be serious however my d made the comment he won’t stick around moms just bored as she said. Lol.

I still believe she’s in there under this all and someday she is going to hate herself for everything she has done but there is still nothing I can do to help her. I know that ultimately no one can make her as happy as I could especially after all this but I don’t know that I’ll ever get the chance to prove it. We have always overcome anything and I still believe that what we have had for soooo long is real and we can still do anything together. But right now she just can’t.

So I’m just trying to GAL hanging with new friends and casually dating here and there and trying to not be lonely and not feel like I’m dying or like I should. It’s a process building back everything in myself I lost between getting sober and also losing her.

But I have to survive this. What other choice do I have when I have two daughters and a whole life ahead of me

[Reinventing]

You will survive this. It will get better and you won't always feel this way. You are in a tough part of all of this with the dissolution.

Yes, your daughters need you.

[UrsaMajor]

Her and new OM seem to be serious however my d made the comment he won’t stick around moms just bored as she said. Lol.

Yep and the underlying issues that caused her to go off into the tunnel are still there...

I still believe she’s in there under this all and someday she is going to hate herself for everything she has done but there is still nothing I can do to help her.

Correct.... There is nothing you can do. She has to do it and she has to WANT to do it...

I know that ultimately no one can make her as happy as I could especially after all this but I don’t know that I’ll ever get the chance to prove it.

No one can "make" another human being happy.... Ever.... One can contribute to their happiness, one can give them joy, one can give them compliments and appreciation, etc., but one can NOT make them happy.  To think that you can make her happy is to assume that, by your actions, you have control over her mental state.... Nope....

LBS Lesson #1 - We only have control over our own well-being and our own mental state.

We have always overcome anything and I still believe that what we have had for soooo long is real and we can still do anything together. But right now she just can’t.

It was real but she is no longer part of the "we" team. She has chosen to go her own way and has chosen, therefore to NOT be a part of the problem-solving process. Instead she has chosen to run away from the issues that haunt her (and will continue to haunt her in theh future because, hey, no matter how far and how fast you run, in the end, there you are.)

So I’m just trying to GAL hanging with new friends and casually dating here and there

Do you REALLY want to go there at this point? I can guarantee you from personal experience that dating right out of the block (casual or otherwise) is like sticking your hand in a meat grinder on purpose.... One needs time to get their head back on straight and get their own emotional house in order before sticking one's toe back in the dating pool. Otherwise, there is a VERY high likelihood of getting sucked into an R that is toxic in so VERY many ways. Being "wanted/desired" is VERY seductive, like cocaine to an addict.... However, like getting the high, it blinds one to the negative sides until the high wears off....

and trying to not be lonely and not feel like I’m dying or like I should. It’s a process building back everything in myself I lost between getting sober and also losing her.

Yes, it is a process and one that hurts like having your squishy bits pounded flat with a ball-peen hammer but it does have an end and, at the end, you'll emerge with a new-found set of skills and strength that you didn't know you had.

But I have to survive this. What other choice do I have when I have two daughters and a whole life ahead of me

Exactly. Your kids need a rock to hold on to in the storm... That would happen to be you in this case because Mom has gone off into La La Land...

[Ichoosefaith]

Hey yall

I am in a pickle.

As many of you know 18 months before my BD my Ex moved me and our kids 2000 miles away from where we are from. I believe moving back would be the BEST for my mental health however with 50/50 custody this would become a detriment to my parenting time with my kids. I could fight to have them in online school and do like 3 months on 3 months off with each parent however that’s a long time without one of the parents. And I worry about that.

But I am at a point where i need family and friends and I don’t have any of that here in Minnesota and want so bad to go back to MY life and family and friends in Arizona. I am truly at a loss for what to do.

Do I continue to struggle mentally and emotionally here for the benefit of my kids and also to prove to my Ex that IM NOT GOINF ANYWHERE.
Or do I go and try to find my happiness even though it may hurt them and my chances to reconcile later if I’m 2000 miles away?  Also moving away might be a wake up call or something to her that there are in fact serious consequences to her actions. But that may also lead to further hate and resentment. I am just so lost.

Any wisdom would help.

[forthetrees]

"Wake up calls" do not work and if that is the factor weighing in the most, my two cents is that it´s a poor reason to move. If on the other hand you will find your center and be more fully healed, thereby being able to be a dad who can give more energy to your kids, then seriously ponder it. The ages of your kids matter as well- it´s hard enough to find your peer group and that would be compounded by being in two places. However, if your kids left buddies behind when they left AZ, they might be gungho to return. If you are pondering this in any way to manipulate her, reconsider.

[AlvinTheMaker]

I believe moving back would be the BEST for my mental health however with 50/50 custody this would become a detriment to my parenting time with my kids. I could fight to have them in online school and do like 3 months on 3 months off with each parent however that’s a long time without one of the parents. And I worry about that.

As sad as it is, shared custody is not about your equal time with your kids. It is to guarantee kids have a good and balanced life. There are at least three things I would consider in your shoes, and they may lead you to different output.

1. What you need?
2. What your childrens school/education needs?
3. What social aspects (friends etc) your kids need?

What about the option of you becoming a holiday parent? You might not see your kids as often, but when you add facetime, whatsapp etc in addition of holidays together, it can be satisfactory. It is good to acknowledge not all days/time is equal in value. For example my xW has kids 60% of time, but those are mostly work/school days. My time is mostly long weekends and holidays. So despite the uneven split, we roughly get the 50/50.

Or what about you simply taking a month off to meet your family and friends few times a year.

There are number of options besides these.
 

Also moving away might be a wake up call or something to her that there are in fact serious consequences to her actions. But that may also lead to further hate and resentment.

Trying to forecast the future hardly ever works. Basically how she reacts is no longer your worry.

Alvin

[JohnnyBravo]

Father5 went through a similar conundrum, although he had to move for work, and I’m not sure it was as far. But, you might find some insight from his thread. He doesn’t post often, but if I recall correctly, it helped him quite a bit.

JB

[Ichoosefaith]

Thanks JB
I will look up his thread now