Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: megogirl on November 21, 2018, 03:17:16 PM
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Finalized settlement agreement today.....so his D should be official in a matter of days.
I am proud of myself. H was trying to avoid eye contact, but I marched straight up to him and said, "You'd really better hope that there is no afterlife."
So.....what now? I suppose I'm really addressing the covenant-keepers now. Because even though I was not raised Catholic, my values regarding marriage mirror those of their faith. One, and done.
So, covenant-keepers: How do you answer the nay-sayers regarding continuance of your Stand? Because I know there will be plenty of them..!
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Not a covenant keeper by any means but I have read a lot and thought a lot about this stuff. I love your spunk, but I think if you want to have a future with him you have to learn to curb your anger and avoid the cheap shot even when he has paved the road for you. Acorn says on her thread over and over again about zipping her lip. This seems very hard for you, as your parting shot shows. If he does try to return, he will likely be a scared kitten and will have a lot of fear and worry about your reactions and your ability to forgive. I think you have to decide: do you want to be right (or say your piece--fill in the appropriate blank) or do you want a chance for a future relationship with him?
I know Goner takes a lot of heat for her directness (and of course she is not alone) but refraining from name-calling of the OW and not giving him unkind names (our subconscious and brain patterning really are affected by this stuff), being kind and compassionate without allowing cake-eating, and being the woman only a fool would leave are really your best shot here. He has to see something that is desirable to him (you have to be the better option) and he has to see the opportunity to approach you before he will.
Have you ever read Happy_Again's posts on the DB board? Most are purged, but there are bits and pieces posted here and there. I have not read any account of a returned MLCer that seems more raw, real-time, and instructive. I heard the exact words out of my H's mouth that he spewed against his poor wife. I imagine everyone here did too. Like Stayed's husband, he recounted what made him want to come back, the doubt he had that they could correct the problems, and the anger he felt at his wife. Very raw stuff.
Mine is a slightly different flavor than a lot here. He is a vanishing clinger (but we do have a geographical distance that could account). He has come back and tried to come back several times. I can now see the approach a mile away. I think if you settle in to yourself, your life, your happiness, out of the corner of your eye, every now and again, you may get a sight of him leaving coffee on your porch.
When and if that happens, keep your eyes on you, your expectations low, and your heart open.
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MG at this point concentrate on HEALING YOU! Emotionally you have been to hell and back. Find YOU again....MG the individual.....not a wife, not a partner, not a mother...but YOU...what makes MG happy?....who is MG? You need to heal totally before you make your mind up what you are doing. There is no set period of time that this will take. Listen to your gut feeling. You will end up where you need to in the end..
As silly as what it sounds.....and I am no hippy....but get in touch with nature to calm yourself and to think. Take a walk in the bush, go to the beach, ride a bike, watch the stars at night...... notice all the small things in this world. Take time to remove yourself from our hectic lives!
To be honest I don't know what I am doing. I am so in limbo. I love my husband beyond....the old husband....I don't know if he will ever resurface or not? I do trust the MLC process, but I need to steer my family forward..,.if he is meant to catch up he will...if not it will be his biggest mistake ever. If my knight in shining armour comes along and can break down all the cactus plants and spikes that I have surrounded myself and my kids with then I suppose fate will take its course. I am not ready to be in another relationship...I don't know if I ever will. I think I am standing...but I tell no one - apart from herospouse members lol.
I agree with Unraveled about biting your tongue with your husband. I understand how it is so hard....we have been hurt beyond and have much anger...find a way to release your anger MG.
Yes I know the nay-Sayers so well....probably why I keep my stand private....let them think whatever they think....they have not been in my shoes or been in a MLC. Mine is not your normal marriage breakdown....that is what the nay-Sayers don't understand.
Don't worry about the future....concentrate on the NOW. Find MG again.
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Acorn says on her thread over and over again about zipping her lip. This seems very hard for you, as your parting shot shows
I beg to differ.....
I did not see what I said as a pot-shot, by any means. Rather, I thought it was just "keepin it real."
I did not call him names, or the like. I merely pointed out that if there is, in fact, an afterlife, his looks bleak.
This man promised God, out loud and in a church: Til Death do Us Part (broken), For Better or for Worse (broken), In Sickness and In Health (broken - I have MS).
At least I can sleep at night, knowing that I've kept up my end of the bargain....!
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He has to see something that is desirable to him (you have to be the better option)
Unraveled, I clearly have morals and values, something OW obviously doesn't. Isn't that desirable enough?
I haven't read Happy_Again's stuff and wish I only knew how to find it.....
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This man promised God, out loud and in a church: Til Death do Us Part (broken), For Better or for Worse (broken), In Sickness and In Health (broken - I have MS).
This is all of our stories MG.
I really don't know if our Mlcers have any remorse for their actions whilst in the tunnel. Nah constantly refers to 'Smoke and Mirrors".....yes I can see this happening with my H. Your H's lack of eye contact displays his guilt. I don't think any Mlcer really understands the damage that they have done to so many people who they loved....well not yet anyhow. I do believe it will come. Whilst our Mlcers are in the midst of the tunnel nothing we say makes any difference. So your words have no affect apart from getting things off your chest.
Have a read of Watchers threads - it would appear that his Wife is coming out of the tunnel - she has utter confusion and depression. She still blames Watcher for things and cannot see what her actions have caused - he remains quiet and let's her go. Sometimes it is best to remain quiet. A life lesson for us LBS's.
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So your words have no affect apart from getting things off your chest.
Aaaand...that was my mission.
Well, that.....and I got 75% of our estate.
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It isn’t a competition. She really does not matter. Become the best you, for you. Focus on you. You can’t logic or guilt anyone back. Yes, he broke his vows. You say you want him back, so it must be in spite of that. You can either forgive or you can’t but to continually bring it up builds a barrier, not a bridge. It doesn’t have to happen today, and it may change day to day. But you have to let go of the anger, the hurt, the outrage. It does happen, I promise. It just takes time, a lot of compassion and, as Treasure reminds us, self-care.
To find Happy_Again just google his name with divorcebusting, you will find it. Also Cerena has some great stuff.
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MG - have a read of denjefs thread
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=8412.0
I did post many reconciliation stories on the Vanishers thread (which included parts of Happy again's letter)....but I cannot find them. Leave it with me and I will locate it for you
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Ohhh thanx Bren.....I am very familiar with denjef31, and have referred reading her threads to MKnight here :)
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You can either forgive or you can’t but to continually bring it up builds a barrier, not a bridge
Actually, I made it perfectly clear a week ago via text that I was willing to forgive. This is a man who always believed in God. And yet, he still showed up in court today.
Hence, my one-sentence "reminder" of what his afterlife will look like....
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Oh Meg,,, I'm sorry but I do agree with the other comments. Somehow I sense hints of bitterness, anger, unforgiveness, judgement in the way you relate to your H. Understandable too but maybe you don't mean to be that way or you are unaware of how it comes across.
Your response to the replies to this post come across as defensive as well. The advise is good but it's like you are not willing to accept it because you have good reasons for what you say. Maybe true, but good chance it's increasing the distance between you and your H. They don't handle obvious negative emotions that well. Makes them want to run further away. Only something to consider if you are Standing. Otherwise, just disregard.
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I am proud of myself. H was trying to avoid eye contact, but I marched straight up to him and said, "You'd really better hope that there is no afterlife."
So.....what now? I suppose I'm really addressing the covenant-keepers now. Because even though I was not raised Catholic, my values regarding marriage mirror those of their faith. One, and done.
But from what you said, it is clear those are your PERSONAL values, but not something you absolutely believe in to be an absolute. Because if you really believed it was a foregone FACT, you would have said something like, "Marriage is for life and what has happened will be dealt with in the afterlife." But you made it as if it was something that may or not be because you told him to hope there is no afterlife, as if you don't really know if there is one or not. That's simply a snarky insult, nothing more.
Your husband clearly does not share your values because he has divorced you. I think you wasted your breath on that one. It probably had zero affect on him at all or it just made him glad he left you for the OW. I mean really, of all the things you could have chosen to say, why that? Why not, "I'm sorry things didn't work out between us. I thought we had a good marriage. I will always keep you in my heart." Or anything to remind him of the positive things between you. Not just another way of saying, "Burn in hell."
Now, I do have to admit I do throw religious stuff at my husband myself. I don't always zip my lip in that regard. But I do it when he is trying to blame me for something and I know it is inconsistent with our shared religious views and in actuality it is him who is doing the wrong thing. I tell him, "I am innocent and what you have done is between you and God." I say it as a factual matter. I don't make it a snarky threat. I say it to basically tell him I'm not going to harp on him for what he has done anymore but I am handing over the matter to God. And I only do it when I know damn well that there is scripture to back up exactly what I am saying. If you aren't Catholic, but you believe marriage is for life, then you are just picking and choosing whatever values suit what you want. It's religion a la carte.
The fact is if you don't have shared religious values then there is no benefit to such remarks like what you made.
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Only something to consider if you are Standing
No, I am Standing. Just a tad puzzled why, after 2+ years of treating me like $h!te, and knowing that I will still (somehow?!?) forgive, he *still* felt the need to drag me into court.
Am I really that *awful* of a human to remain being married to?!
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https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9088.0
MG - make yourself a cuppa, put your feet up and have a read of these threads. "Vanisher - Return Stories".....note that they are not all vanisher stories. Happy again story is amongst these threads. This thread used to be on the Resources Page (Old Pilot put them there) but are no longer there.
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Leaving aside what he has done to you for a moment, yes, the way you talk about him on here if I were him and heard you saying all that $h!te, i would think at least you were treating me awfully. He can't see that he precipitated it. He just sees you as being a b!tc#.
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The fact is if you don't have shared religious values then there is no benefit to such remarks like what you made.
Actually, we DID, got marriage counseling prior to saying our vows accordingly, and got married in a church accordingly.
If he didn't share my values re: God, I never would have married him in the first place.
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yes, the way you talk about him on here if I were him and heard you saying all that $h!te, i would think at least you were treating me awfully.
Well, then, he only needs to LOOK IN THE MIRROR, because everything I've said here has been FACTUAL, not an opinion......
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The fact is if you don't have shared religious values then there is no benefit to such remarks like what you made.
Actually, we DID, got marriage counseling prior to saying our vows accordingly, and got married in a church accordingly.
If he didn't share my values re: God, I never would have married him in the first place.
Yeah, but you are talking about covenant keeping and saying that is not part of your religious sect. So you are suggesting you made those remarks because he divorced you, not because he cheated on you. If your religious sect allows divorce, then your remarks were inappropriate and you are the one who isn't respecting your shared values.
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Only something to consider if you are Standing
No, I am Standing. Just a tad puzzled why, after 2+ years of treating me like $h!te, and knowing that I will still (somehow?!?) forgive, he *still* felt the need to drag me into court.
Am I really that *awful* of a human to remain being married to?!
MG you are going to continue asking yourself this question for a while....you will have times where you want to give up, it is totally natural. But only you, and you alone can make your decision to continue or not based on your knowledge and heart. You can never break unconditional love!
I believe in the Red String of Fate - It means that people who are destined to meet are tied together with an invisible Red Thread. Legend has it that the two people connected by this thread will have a major story, regardless of the time, place or circumstances. The Red String might get tangled, contracted or stretched, as surely often happens, but it can never break.
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If your religious sect allows divorce, then your remarks were inappropriate and you are the one who isn't respecting your shared values
Actually, I align with RCR. 100%.
Biblically, it may be allowed should I choose to hit the bricks. But, to do so "wasn't in my vows."
*thank you again, RCR*
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I freaking *LOVE* that Bren, and totally agree.....thank you
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You can argue your case until the cows come home. Maybe if you spent less time trying to prove you are right and tried to put yourself in the shoes of the MLCer and understand his current thinking and perceptions, you would understand that the road to reconciliation is less about proving your superiority and beating them over the head with their mistakes than it is about showing them a soft place to land.
My husband and I had a very ugly and heated argument the other night, but a huge step forward also came out of it. I mentioned he had treated me badly the past 2.5 years. And he AGREED. He said yes he had treated me badly. You know what I said to that? I didn't give him a long laundry list of things he had done wrong to rub it in. I told him "thank you, I really appreciate you saying that. It means a lot to me that you recognize you treated me badly." And I left it at that. I paved the way for him to confess more later, by making him see I won't hold it over his head.
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"Long laundry list?" Whatever is it that you speak of?!
Please shoo, fly, shoo....
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MG - Another thread to read is Busy_Bee - another Mlcer who becomes a LBS.
Here is a quote from a recent post of hers...it certainly gives an insight into the mind of a Mlcer
What if I tell you that I felt NOTHING for my husband?
I wanted him to disappear
I wanted him to leave me alone
I wanted him to just go away and don't bother me
I didn't love him anymore and I was SURE i never will
Time.....
After 5 year
I'd give everything just for him to hold my hand
I'd give anything for him just to be with me
I'd give anything to get his attention
When the FOG was gone I knew he is the only one i want to spend my life with
Difficult to explain MLC, as you can't comprehend that sudden " unlove" , sudden personality change. There is no such thing as ILVYBIMNILWY nonsense.
For some MLCers their other life will work well, so they won't come back. Others will regret but still won't come back
But there are others who would like to come back, but LBS are already gone...
That is why you need to let her go first completely. Find yourself.
As you can't replace her, she won't be able to replace you as well. She will try her best. Most probably she will fail.
Many ifss and buts ...
I guess TIME will fix all those MLCers, will you wait? :)
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"Long laundry list?" Whatever is it that you speak of?!
Please shoo, fly, shoo....
Wow, Mego,,,,,, really? This is how you choose to respond to someone attempting to help you?
The help came in the form of a 2 x 4 but I do think the comments apply to you and were intended to help. If you can come off so abrasive here, then I wonder if it's 10 x worse for those talking to you in RL. I'm sure you didn't come here to just hear people tell you what you want to hear because it rarely goes that way here. Instead, people are more likely to tell you what you need to hear. Usually in more supportive ways but if that goes unheard the 2 x 4's tend to come out with the hope of getting through to you. Then you post a reply with the intention of offending and insulting instead of considering for a second, if there is some truth in what they are 'trying' to tell you. Sorry but you need to be called out on this.
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With the caveat that my assumption is that God knows a bunch of stuff I don't.....may be worth rereading about the return of the prodigal son....not sure it would have read the same if the father had said 'well, F off because you deserved it'.
You are angry, mego, and it comes out in your responses here too. Your anger is understandable but people who share your values and have been where you are are saying two things clearly to you.
That the need to be angry and right will not help your stand (think HB or RCR had an article about this, about wanting a spouse to return grovelling on their knees)
That it won't help you detach enough to move forward with your own life while standing in covenant.
It is of course your choice to pause and muse on them or not.
My marriage was a covenant to me not a contract. I believed it was the same for my h when he made those vows but evidently he changed his mind and his beliefs although ironically he was more active in his faith before than I was. I am not responsible for his relationship with God, only my own. For me though, I would not remarry as he has done because of my beliefs. And it's the only way I know to not get divorced again lol.
Forgiveness is a hard individual path and I'm not sure I have forgiven my xh. Or need to. That might be above my pay grade and best left for a conversation between him and God! But I count it as both a blessing and some real effort that I do not hate him or wish him ill, that I have compassion for just how far he has strayed from the decent person he once was and the things he treasured. In my case, for my wellbeing, my compassion is silent and from a distance :)
Imho watcher's recent posts are like reading love and grace in action. To the point where his HS friends are concerned about the strain on him whilst also admiring his deep compassion for his profoundly broken wife.i've no idea if Watcher believes in God or not. Could you do that, mego, if your h ever reached out to you? (And no judgment bc I'm not sure I could)
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Wow, Mego,,,,,, really? This is how you choose to respond to someone attempting to help you?
Anon best to ignore the bantering between MG and GIG....this bantering has been happening in several threads.
MG has Sass which radiates confidence....but like us all she is damaged and needs support. We all know that our family and friends in RL have no idea what we are going through. Posters come here to HS to vent...no one should judge. Release of hurt and anger is positive for the healing process. For me personally I skipped the anger stage in my LBS journey.....I have immense hurt but no anger. My psychologolist wishes that I could get angry...but instead I internalise my feelings - anxiety, contraction of the neck muscles (like someone is strangling me), weight loss, hair falling out etc. This is not healthy! MG's anger is understandable and IMO it is better that she vents on here with fellow LBS's who get it and do not judge.
Goner offers awesome advise and is very assertive. She is very honest and blunt in her posts. IMO I believe that some of her posts can be misconstrued and misinterpreted like all written content.
We are all here to support all posters....sharing our thoughts on our own individual experiences and sharing our research on Mlc. There is no right or wrong in this Mlc carpola $h!tee! We all have varying perspectives and opinions and can learn immensely from all
For me though, I would not remarry as he has done because of my beliefs. And it's the only way I know to not get divorced again lol.
Forgiveness is a hard individual path and I'm not sure I have forgiven my xh. Or need to. That might be above my pay grade and best left for a conversation between him and God! But I count it as both a blessing and some real effort that I do not hate him or wish him ill, that I have compassion for just how far he has strayed from the decent person he once was and the things he treasured. In my case, for my wellbeing, my compassion is silent and from a distance :)
Amen Treasur....I often wonder if I will fully trust again. I have trust issues with everyone!
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Mego, first, I'm sorry your divorce is final. I'm not there yet, but will in the coming year, so I imagine it feels like one more blow from our Hs. One more way to make us disappear.
Thank you for opening this discussion, I'm getting so much good advice for myself. I don't blame you for being angry and for having needed to let your exH know how you felt. I do it about 3 times a year. You're still early in this MLC mess so you can't force yourself to reach the next stage in your grief until you're ready for it. Anger has actually helped me move forward.
So back to you telling your exH how you felt as I have done. It felt good to me when I did it. I don't actually regret it even now that time has passed. There were moments I just needed to say how I felt.
What this discussion is pointing out to me is that if I'm standing, getting stuff off my chest is not going to help my stand. Of course, I knew that, but seeing several people's view of how venting comes across, I'm starting to really realize that it's time for me to stop this.
I'm glad nobody 2x4'd me when I posted my vents, because I was still at a stage where I needed to do that. This is one of the invaluable gifts we receive from HS, the chance to heal and say how we feel with (usually) not too much criticism, and lots of encouragement. And often, we work it out ourselves in the end.
I can't say enough how much I'm getting from this discussion. Mego, you have a right to your feelings whatever they are. You're angry, be angry, get it out. We've all made comments like yours to our Hs, every one of us. Some stopped sooner than others, that's all. Lucky them.
What I am learning is that there is no right or wrong on this MLC journey. The 'wrong' we might appear to be doing, is needed for our own journey. There is always something positive that comes out of discussing our emotions. So what now? Just keep focusing on you.
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What I am learning is that there is no right or wrong on this MLC journey. The 'wrong' we might appear to be doing, is needed for our own journey. There is always something positive that comes out of discussing our emotions. So what now? Just keep focusing on you.
Milly 👏👏👏👏👏👏.....well said lovely lady!
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Sorry but you need to be called out on this.
Seriously? For being annoyed and calling someone "a fly"?!
My H deserved to hear what I'd said. He violated the very thing he's promised to me, and to God. I was just calling a spade a spade, and he needed to hear it....even if it went in one ear, and out the other.
I did not say "Rot in Hell." If he takes it that way....oh, well.....
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Mego girl,
I am a stander and I believe what some call a covenant stander. My h. divorced me almost four years ago.
On the day of our divorce, I told him and everyone in the small room we were in (the lawyer, the clerk and the registrar's official) that I loved him, none of this was my desire and I was proud to have carried his name in the thirty years we had been married - this was because he insisted I take back my maiden name. The deed was done in 10 minutes and we walked out there together - he walked me to where my car was parked, I gave him a big hug and told him, 'nothing changes - I am still married to you in the eyes of God and I love you just the same'.
Almost four years have passed - he is still with ow but doesn't live with her anymore - we get on well together and he comes to visit the kids at our house - he currently doing a major maintenance job on our house, which relieves me financially . I don't receive alimony because I am independent and all our kids are over age. They live with me and the financial burden on me is greater but that is often the case with mothers, right? I help him out financially if he needs it. I facilitate the communication with the kids because it blesses him and them. I pray for him daily (and for the ow).
People have gotten used to my stand and don't talk about it any more. I have a pretty much restored relationship with my in-laws and we 'understand' each other.
I have never really been angry at him - I have forgiven and am prepared to continue to forgive with God's help.
So, that is how I have continued living. It is not what I dreamed of but my children are relieved that I am not at loggerheads with their much beloved father and we all get on with life. I continue to pray for restoration, however, that is totally in God's hands, not mine.
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What this discussion is pointing out to me is that if I'm standing, getting stuff off my chest is not going to help my stand. Of course, I knew that, but seeing several people's view of how venting comes across, I'm starting to really realize that it's time for me to stop this.
I'm glad nobody 2x4'd me when I posted my vents, because I was still at a stage where I needed to do that. This is one of the invaluable gifts we receive from HS, the chance to heal and say how we feel with (usually) not too much criticism, and lots of encouragement. And often, we work it out ourselves in the end.
Milly, am I correct that you're saying that we naturally need to vent--but to do it HERE instead of at our Hs/Ws?
That's something I had to learn--to do the so-called "180" and NOT be the person H sees me as but the person I TRULY am. That is one of the best ways to prove him wrong, after all... ;)
But then, further, that *how* we vent here is important. If we do it in a way that creates or maintains hardness in ourselves, it takes us in a different spiritual direction than coming from a place of compassion and love does. We want to honor our own feelings, yes, but the way I see it, the bottom line is that what I wanted in the first place was to love my H. That was the whole point! So I let go of the idea of getting "justice" from him. I would rather he see a contrast between my true self, the loving person that I always intended to be, and the broken, immature OW that is sure to increasingly annoy him and grate on his nerves like the affair down she is.
I feel angry often, but I feel more compassionate and loving as I go along. It's a process to shift the percentage from one side to the other. I don't judge myself for the anger. It's certainly justified. But in the process of getting where I want to be, letting go of anger improves my experience in the present as well as "paving the way" for future relationships of any kind.
Mego, I don't know if my musings make any sense to you...I'm sorry you're hurting (as we all are or have been). We're just saying, in a way, that if we want to build something, there are more and less effective ways to use our tools.
Maybe think of it this way...MLCers can't learn as well from our words at this point (maybe at any point?) as they can from the "vibe" we show them--kind of like pets. ;D
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I gave him a big hug and told him, 'nothing changes - I am still married to you in the eyes of God and I love you just the same'.
Wow....I am unsure how you reached the point of being able to hug your H, because I haven't, and I've tried everything.
Finally, yesterday H got exactly what he wanted all along. And he would have been more than happy to send me on my merry way without saying a word....the ultimate FU.
So I said what I said - which apparently folks here found nasty - but I just viewed as stating the (harsh) reality.
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I gave him a big hug and told him, 'nothing changes - I am still married to you in the eyes of God and I love you just the same'.
Wow....I am unsure how you reached the point of being able to hug you H, because I haven't, and I've tried everything.
Maybe because we live in a Latin country,where hugging and cheek kissing is the social norm. My love language is physical touch and it is his too, so it is easy to show affection... It is not really a sexual thing, although you would not catch me hugging a random man - a close friend or brother /brother-in-law, yes. And, of course, it IS different hugging the man you love ;)
My detachment from my h. was more along the lines of not allowing him to hurt me, keeping my boundaries and distancing from him when he was monsterish or wanted to foist the ow on me but never mistreating him or denying my affection and respect for him. If he didn't want to be hugged he just kept away from me and I respected his distance too :). I don't keep telling him I love him or that I am standing - he knows that from the consistency of my actions, he also has learned to respect me too ;) The fact that he has divorced me and that he is in a relationship with ow is his business, not mine. He feels safe with me most of the time, possibly because I don't pressure him at all, I leave it up to him to initiate our communication most of the time - I only start the communication in the case of an emergency with the kids or if he has made it clear that he wants to contacted about things (like some house repairs that he can help). I also wish him happy birthday, happy Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Father's day.
IMHO, it is possible to have a good relationship with them with mutual respect as long as you are clear on your boundaries and respect his too.
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I gave him a big hug and told him, 'nothing changes - I am still married to you in the eyes of God and I love you just the same'.
Unconditional and agape love for our beloved spouses who ended up with a "condition" that they did not ask for and that they also could not have prevented.
Indeed, a legal paper changes nothing. In God's eyes we are still married and always will be.
I continue to love my husband...his crisis did not change that for me.
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So I said what I said - which apparently folks here found nasty - but I just viewed as stating the (harsh) reality.
Mego, many have given you excellent advice. You can only go forward when you can see the common theme in their comments and you embrace them. When you keep defending yourself against all the advice given here, the only person you are hurting is you. I can see that people have been very generous with their time and have been persistent in helping you. Accept them with gratitude and humility, and hold up the mirror for yourself so that you can move forward.
I see that you admire RCR greatly. Then go read her words about Mirror work.
Help is not unlimited. When you continuously defend yourself against the genuine help given here, people will be less likely to offer them going forward. Well, that’s my view anyway.
I mean well.
Happy Thanksgiving!
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When you continuously defend yourself against the genuine help given here, people will be less likely to offer them going forward.
With all due, I have been repeatedly targeted here, over and over again, for innocuous things. So I certainly didn't ask for any "help."
My initial question was aimed at the Covenant-Keepers, which was (basically) "how do you deal with the people who think you're nuts?" People then offered their (unsolicited) opinions on what I'd said to H.....
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So I certainly didn't ask for any "help."
I see. Thanks for the clarification.
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How do you answer the nay-sayers regarding continuance of your Stand?
Depending on how intrusive they are, I tell them a variation ;D on "Thank you for your concern, this is my issue to resolve"
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If you re-read the top of the thread, it's pretty clear. Well, I thought it was.
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When someone asks about your stand, if they are rude about it, you can always say "Bless your heart."
Otherwise, I have found "Thank you for your concern about my well being." Then change the subject.
And as to what you say to your MLC spouse, it may matter for the ones who end up stuck and want mommy to do all the fixit work, but for the ones who truly still love their spouses and come through. I don't think it matters what we say. And sometimes we need to state our truth, although calmly is better than angrily. JMO
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you can always say "Bless your heart."
LOL!!! I LOVE that phrase.
It's the ultimate, back-handed insult.....
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you can always say "Bless your heart."
LOL!!! I LOVE that phrase.
It's the ultimate, back-handed insult.....
??? I don't intend to insult anyone with my response.
I may want them to get off my back with their well meaning comments about moving on and deserving better, but that is all. In no way do I want to insult them.
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I may want them to get off my back with their well meaning comments about moving on and deserving better, but that is all.
Noooo....it definitely does that, just in a funny way.
It's the polite way of saying "Get of my back!" That's why I called it back-handed, because that statement is implied.....
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Perhaps - going back to what you said the question was that you DID want help with - a place to start is working out why it matters to you what anyone else says, nay sayer or not, if you know why you are choosing to stand?
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Well, I didn't know what kind of a Stander I would be, once the D was finalized.
Up until now, I tried to put it off for as long as possible. So I *was* just a "regular" Stander, or whatever.
Now I'm faced with the decision.....covenant-keep while divorced, or to finally quit and move on?? And just how bad is the backlash in doing the former?!
I'm stilllllll not sure what to be.....
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...
Now I'm faced with the decision.....covenant-keep while divorced, or to finally quit and move on?? And just how bad is the backlash in doing the former?!
I'm stilllllll not sure what to be.....
Megogirl,
Just be what feels right to YOU. Thats kind of what I meant in that other thread: there is no wrong answer here. There is only what feels wrong to YOU. You get to decide your own fate and beliefs. Nobody else does.
-T
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IMHO If you honestly think after reflecting back in the relationship and come to the conclusion is that he is the ONLY man you can or could ever love. That the relationship was the best one you think you might ever have. And you cannot imagine yourself with someone else.Then stand.
Me? I'm big into time limits..so I'd put a time frame on it.
If you look back and you feel you may somehow run into someone who would treat you better? Then move on.
There would be no backlash for you as far as I can see. You are with someone else and happy..even if he comes back later..you moved on..his loss.
Just please to do not get involved if he could just come back and blow that relationship up. You aren't out there to break hearts.
So staying single for while is a really good idea.
( Frankly? I'd have a really hard time if I were you trusting him about anything again. )
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IMHO If you honestly think after reflecting back in the relationship is that he is the ONLY man you can or could ever love. That the relationship was the best one you think you might ever have. And you cannot imagine yourself with someone else.Then stand.
I've been in love exactly twice: once with H, and the other with my gay best friend while we were in college.
How I know that I was in love is because I did not find either to be attractive at first. (Actually, I only hung out with my gay BFF to get to his roommate, who I WAS attracted to.). It was only after much time spent together that I started finding each of the two "hot."
Since the gay BFF thing was NEVER going to happen, that leaves H as the only man I've ever loved who also loved me back. And, the relationship was the best one I've ever had - the only one, in fact. So, no...I don't want anyone else, and can not imagine myself with anyone else.
Thanx for helping me answer this question! Bring on the naysayers.....
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Not a naysayer, exactly. I stood until. My until was my divorce. At that time I decided to simply live my life. My X never cheated to my knowledge, nor has he or does he have a girlfriend. That would have been a dealbreaker, done for me. So since he hasn't and doesn't, I am open to whatever in my life.
The person my X is now I wouldn't want. If he becomes something closer to what he was, someone who has something to bring to a joint table, I am open to see if that works. But if someone else shows up who is already someone I connect with, enjoy time with and respect, I am open to that as well. I no longer stand, but I don't rule anything out either. Live each day in the now. It works for me at the moment.
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That would have been a dealbreaker, done for me.
And this is what I'm the most conflicted about.
The Bible gives one an out, if infidelity is a deal-breaker. However, it was NOT included as an "exemption clause" in our Vows.
So what, exactly, constitutes "taking the 'high' road?" Since they've gone low, we should now go high.
But what does "high" even mean?! Because I see a case being made for taking EITHER road....
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You take the road that feels right to you. And if it's the wrong one, turn and go the other way. I don't think you should be looking for an "out". I promised to love and honor the man I married. My XH is not that man at this time. He broke the vows. I can stay in a one sided non marriage (valid choice) or decide to choose differently (also a valid choice). The trick is that whatever the choice, own it. Your X is your X (and I am sorry for that) by his choice. You can't expect anything more than what is in the divorce paperwork, even if you choose to stand. No whining about being lonely (an occasional statement of that fact is acceptable, but no whining ), no complaints because he goes to live his life in whatever fashion. If you choose to stand, you choose what goes with it, same as if you don't stand.
You don't have to make a decision now. You can "Standish " until you decide. Just keep moving forward, making yourself the best you that you want to be. It's funny, but I still believe the Universe sends me what i need. It may not be what I want, but it's what I need, and I have to be smart enough to recognize what gets sent and make the most out of it. The Universe hasn't sent me an available man that suits me. But it did give me an unavailable one who fufilled my need for male conversation (non intimate or romantic) Maybe there is a reason for that.
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All I know is that I just want to be the HERO - as coined by RCR.
Just defining the word "hero" is what's killing me, because there are no clear answers, Biblically or otherwise....?!
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As a suggestion, be your own Hero, not the one someone else defines. I have the utmost respect and appreciation for everything RCR has done, but her writings are guidlines. Some of them were her experiences, but that doesn't mean it will work for you, apply to you, or be your end goal.
What do you want to see in the mirror in a year, three years, five years? Do you want to talk to your X as if he'd never treated you as he has? (Valid choice) Do you want to be civil for the sake of S? Do you want to never speak to him until he becomes someone you want to be friends with? Do you not give a fig and simply want to take care of yourself and S?
All you can do is be your own hero. I tried being kind and interacting with my mlc spouse when he was at home. I got a job where I could support myself and the kids after being mostly a SAHM for 18 years and he decided he was done out oF nowhere. I paid the kids insurance, all their expenses (no child support from their dad) drove S back and forth to school getting up at o dark thirty to do so, came home, helped with homework, made dinner, did every freaking thing I did as a SAHM PLUS worked 50 hours a week. Got S through high school and D through college, sometimes grammar and spell checking papers at 4:30 AM (dyslexia). Helped get D get launched at her new job. Kept S out of severe depression when the first college didn't work for him. Kept my house, reroofed and got it painted all on my own (this was not cheap-concrete tile roof). Kept good relations with ILs. Pulled myself up by my bootstraps and keep moving forward. I'm my OWN freaking Hero. Maybe I couldn't save my marriage, but that doesn't make me, and countless others here our own brand of Hero.
Define what your own Hero is. Then do that.
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I am not sure you can consciously CHOOSE to stand or not.
I think it is a part of the process that comes subconsciously, over time..just like detachment.
Inch my inch, moment by moment. Everything they do, or don't adds to the ''Standing'' or ''I'm Done'' pile...and so it goes on for years and years...until one day you realise which pile is bigger.
We can't just wake up in the morning say ''I'm done'' and really mean it because it would be easier, or more logical, or there is a new person. The strings attaching us to our spouse are still there. They slowly erode or are cut, but we can't CHOOSE to do it when we want.
In a similar fashion you can not choose to stand forever and ever and say nothing else will ever change your mind.
Life happens. Things come along that we don't expect.
Today, you are standing...tomorrow you are standing...next week? Who knows.
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Well this post couldn't have been more apropos for today.....
Because my "ex"-niece posted a pic of her Thanksgiving holiday this morning. Everyone was in the pic, gathered around the table....H, evil ex-IL's, ex-niece, ex-nephew, S15, and.....THE O firetruckING W.
I still can't believe he had the stones to do it. A table full of @$$holes, and here's one more. Just appalling.
I texted S15, "I don't want you hanging around any prostitutes." He knew what I meant.
I'm still on a ledge. And my Stand has badly waned, and is now the most battle-tested it has EVER been.
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It hurts, mego. I can still very much remember that sting. You don't have to make any decisions right now. Just let yourself process. You WILL feel better.
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Ready -
You had your hooker show up for Thanksgiving, too?
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It may get be a lot better for you if you stop looking at social media.
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In it, I only look at FB (rarely) and Instagram (even more rarely.)
I defriended H's family from FB a long time ago....so IG was the only connection I had, and only the occasional, random pic.
I was "unfollowed" by her, right after I texted H to let him know that I'd seen it:
"X-niece posted your Thanxgiving pic on Instagram. You sure are teaching S15 some rotten morals over there in the 14527. That adultery is not only a non-sin, but is actually a GOOD thing! So, let's all have a toast to THAT!"
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Ready -
You had your hooker show up for Thanksgiving, too?
Despite xH's family being in ministry, they fully embraced the married OW as a member of the family prior to either of them filing for divorces from me or her husband. My xH lived with them and they allowed her to come sleep with him in their basement for family visits (she lived two states away). After he moved into her husband's side of the bed in 2013, I saw from FB that they had a "special" holiday between Thanksgiving and Christmas just for the two of them (he was always left out of things when we were together - guess they just didn't like me!) Prior to this, after BD, my MIL told me they never considered us to have a "real marriage" since it happened in Vegas. I am likely still referred to as the ill person who couldn't move on. I found out later his brother and second wife had their wedding in 2012 about 6 months before she even filed for divorce from her H (after being in the family for years). So clearly, legal marriage isn't "real" but pretend marriages are.
And just to add, I agree with In It that it does help to not see it, BUT...we all have done it. Especially when it's all new. I even spent a lot of time watching the court dockets in the prospective cities (it's how I knew she filed for divorce from her H and also what was motivating her to push my xH forward - she was facing foreclosure and needed him to front the money for her divorce and new house!). I was just trying to grasp what was happening and grieve being left out (even if the people sucked and I was better off). It takes practice to move away from it.
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Ready -
Everything about that reply is just wrong. And disturbing.
Damn I'm very sorry, for everything.....
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Thank you, but know that I just roll my eyes at all of it now. It hurt so much at the time, not that we were close, but that I'd tried with them for decades for my xH's sake. Lesson learned, but it took time to heal.
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It hurt so much at the time, not that we were close, but that I'd tried with them for decades for my xH's sake.
Yeah, I'm really just pissed in general. At all of it.
I've been pissed at my IL's for 17 years. Because I tried, tried, and tried some more. Sadly, because I wasn't born a BLONDE, I was never going to be ok in my MILS's eyes (True story....she's THAT superficial....even though she has a bad dye-job, and a helmet-head haircut.)
They also claim to be people of Faith. And yet, their own son's OW sat at their table, like a "member of the family!", while I sat here in exile.
Couldn't make any of this up. I swear, tales of MLC severely trump fiction.....
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MG - just remember that the majority of information and photos posted on Social Media is staged, glorified and fake for the posters audience/followers. Pay no attention to the "One big happy family" photo....I can guarantee you that it is not all that it appears. Don't jump to,assumptions based on your perception of the photo.
Remember - Many social media accounts are no more than parody accounts, and is in no way associated with the real person it depicts or what exactly is going on. Everyone only posts about the good things.
May I suggest that next time your H pisses you off...there will be more times....don't text or phone abuse at him. Get a diary or notebook and write and vent your feelings or the message you would live to send him. Don't give him (or the OW) the satisfaction of knowing that their actions have gotten under your skin. Fake your strength and detachment.
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.don't text or phone abuse at him. Get a diary or notebook and write and vent your feelings or the message you would live to send him
Except that I consider everything I've spelled out to H as MINIMAL.
Because I could, and really deserve to, go completely BEZERK......
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"X-niece posted your Thanxgiving pic on Instagram. You sure are teaching S15 some rotten morals over there in the 14527. That adultery is not only a non-sin, but is actually a GOOD thing! So, let's all have a toast to THAT!"
You are still living in the early 90s. This is NOT a TV program like 90210 and it is clear you are really hung up on that because of the way you use a zip code to refer to your H's location. This is real life. If you think you can be a drama queen and hope for reconciliation while acting like this, you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
He considers you his ex-wife and that he is never getting back with you and he has moved on with another woman who his family accepts and maybe even likes. Then as they are sitting down to pumpkin pie during a family gathering, in comes this text message from his ex-wife. He probably looks down at it and maybe even shares it with the rest of the family and dismisses it as "rantings of my ex, sure glad I dumped her. I may have to file for a restraining order if this psycho doesn't stop harassing me." And then they all chime in about how they never liked you and all the faults they perceived in you. And son is sitting there feeling smothered between his mother and father and his family and their disdain and disrespect for one another.
And before you start getting your fly swatter out, just realize what I posted above is the natural reaction he is going to show to that message. You believe they all hate you, well you just gave them reason 1001 to hate you even more. It will not have the affect you want. You attract flies with honey, not salt on wounds.
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I hate to admit it, but I had the same reaction to your use of the ZIP Code in your message to him. Everyone is telling you the same thing and your response to every single one of us is that you could be seeing worst to him. It doesn’t matter that you could be saying much worse things to him. We all have a million things we can spew at our MLCers. And I am actually one who believes that a well placed truth dart is OK now and then. I don’t believe in babying anyone or never saying anything.
But the snarkiness of your comments is not going to get you anywhere. It’s actually having the opposite effect of what you want if you are indeed standing. And even if you’re not standing, what everyone is saying is still write, your comments are only making him look at you as someone he’s glad he left instead of someone he regrets leaving. The hardest thing that we have to do is keep our lips zipped when we really want to say exactly what’s on our minds. But it is also one of the most important things we can do for ourselves. And just imagine what would be going through his mind if a picture was posted or anything else happened and he actually didn’t hear from you at all. When he starts getting no reaction from you, I think that will have more of an effect on him than any snarky or biting remark you can make.
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MG....just curious.....What advise does your IC give you? Has he/she given you strategies to try to reduce your anger? What does your GF's or family members think?
I get your anger...I understand and totally sympathise....we all get it. BUT being constantly angry at your H, voicing your hurt and holding a pity party for yourself is not healthy. At this present time our H's do not care if they have hurt us or our children. Their whole life is focused on them and them alone. Save your breath because it falls on deaf ears. I have mentioned to you before about reading Watchers thread - you would be utterly surprised at his composure when he is with his wife - they appear to be reconnecting. Yes he vents on HS, yet he is very compassionate when dealing with his wife. Please read his thread.
MG you.need to find a way to release and let go of some of your anger....it is not healthy for you or the environment you create for your son. We all have stories, some of us have received the raw end of the stick.but we keep going because we believe in the MLC process.
Sorry MG...I need to agree with the others. Yes a random truth dart is very effective....but shooting consistent and constant darts will make your H pleased that you are no longer in his life. He will never look back and I know that this is not what you want.
Time to re-evaluate your plan. Firstly work on healing yourself. Detach and rid yourself of the built up anger.
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I suspect you'll ignore what I say but I'll give it a last shot because i think you are making things worse for you and your son, mego, and on HS we want every LBS to survive and heal and reclaim their life.
Of course you feel angry.
But EVERY TIME you SHOW your anger to your xh, HE WINS.
Because he doesn't care how you feel or what you think.
Because it feeds his justifications for behaving like a PoS.
Most of all, because it is a bit of narcissistic supply that makes him feel strong and you look weak.
Is that what you want?
Not all of us feel anger, but plenty do and if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.
The trick is to use the energy of that anger in ways that actually serve you.
The determination to build a better life as a big FU. The energy to be brave and proud and do new things. The passion to be fitter, stronger and more independent. The skill of learning how to manage your own emotions and responses when life or people pi$$ you off. The courage to accept that these things have happened to you and screaming outrage about it won't change the facts of it. The wisdom to know that the longer you stay angry at him/them you are giving them control over you and space in your life that can be used for better things. The strength to make your son's life and emotional wellbeing more important than your anger.
It is your choice, of course, but the responses from others here are a gift of walking in your shoes and the painful lessons seen with hindsight. If all you need is a cheerleading squad of 'go girl' for your rage, while we get it, you're not likely to find much of that here. We want YOU to win, not to stay stuck feeding the crazy bad folks.
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You are still living in the early 90s. This is NOT a TV program like 90210 and it is clear you are really hung up on that because of the way you use a zip code to refer to your H's location.
I can see why you would think that. Alas, that isn't true.
WE have referred to H's hometown with only a zip code for many years. Has nothing to do with "90210."
For the record, I acted out scenes from "90210" over 22 years ago. So if anyone believes they're on "90210" now it's H, acting out his adventure, and believing he's in a movie/tv show/whatever.
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It is your choice, of course, but the responses from others here are a gift of walking in your shoes and the painful lessons seen with hindsight. If all you need is a cheerleading squad of 'go girl' for your rage, while we get it, you're not likely to find much of that here. We want YOU to win, not to stay stuck feeding the crazy bad folks
Thanx, Treasur
And I know I won't get a cheerleading squad. I am aware....it's just that sometimes I just SNAP.
And maybe I'm half-hoping that little bits of guilt/truth darts might get stuck somewhere in his subconscious. That in the back of his thick, MLC-fogged skull, he's absorbed some of what I've said.
But my pockets of anger definitely aren't planned. But I'm trying my damnedest to take the high road, most of the time at least.
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It's hard, mego, I know.
All we can do is keep trying to pull our focus back to what serves US now, and we all fall over and then get up again, we all have those snap moments when we say or do things we wish we hadn't.
It was inconceivable to me that my h simply did not care what I thought, felt or what happened to me. But it was real. For me it was a relief to get to the point where I would open my mouth and then go, no, File under F for Futile, just wasting my breath. No Truth Darts would work bc he simply did not care.
I used to walk a lot having mad muttering conversations with him in my head LOL
Still find it weird actually after 20 years that the h who used to love and like me so much became this...but I felt better when I stopped trying to talk to crazy. And stronger when I stepped off his rollercoaster.
Keep going - it does get easier as we start to see it in the rear view mirror.
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MG we all understand...we know exactly where you are coming from as we have all been there.
Just be conscious of what we are all saying with future encounters....breathe....come on here and vent if you have to...no one on here will judge.....write your reply on a piece of paper - vent get your inner feelings out....then burn it. Put H's photo on a boxing bag and let loose. No more LOOSE CANON Megogirl in front of Husband. Ok? You need to get control of YOU again. You can do it....we all know you can.
I love the rule of 3 rule before responding....it does work.
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No more LOOSE CANON Megogirl in front of Husband.
Well, that's a laugh!
Because I never actually SEE his sorry ass. Well, I faced him in court, but that was *only* because I walked straight up to him and uttered a single sentence.
If I offer anything, it's strictly over text....
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MGG, I doubt very much that your XH receives your communication, no matter how it is transmitted, as an 'offering'.
Hi! I’ve been away from the forum for a while and not posting much. But this discussion is like a bad car accident. Even though every fibre of my being says don’t engage, it is hard to look away.
I’m not sure I have ever seen a discussion where someone has so persistently deflected so many compassionate corrections.
MGG, if I am reading your profile correctly, your BD was fall of 2013?
And XH left more than 2 years ago?
I'm sorry for the hurt that you feel. We have all been there.
But as Brenross said, this is a long time to carry so much anger.
You've made it really clear you are standing. And you’ve said that you hope some of your ‘truth darts’ actually get through to your X, so I’m going to go out on a limb and use the same strategy.
By the end of this post, you may not like me very much.
If you don’t, that’s great, because that is the point I am trying to make.
There’s a fine line between ‘truth dart’ and blame. Or sarcasm. Or snark. People tend not to like it much when we cross it. People don't much like being preached at, either.
Even though there is nothing specific an LBS can do to effect a spouse's return, there is a lot an LBS can do to torpedo the possibility.
MGG, many people have been telling you both gently and directly that your compulsion to stick it to your xH is not going to get you what you say you want. And maybe that's it. What you say you want might not be what you actually want at all.
I have some questions for you to reflect on.
I am not asking you to answer them.
Only suggesting you think about them.
And I’m not asking you anything I haven’t asked the woman in my own mirror.
What are you standing for?
Can you identify reasons for your stand in addition to your vow?
Are you standing because you love your H?
And your family?
And believe in what was good in your marriage?
Or are you standing out of defiance? To make an example of your XH for breaking his?
It's important to know, because standing is a way of being. It isn’t a virtue badge one wears to amplify a spouse's scarlet letter.
You wrote that you despised his family for 17 years. You also wrote that your X said one of the reasons he left was because you didn't like his family.
So far, you’ve insisted on proving him right, so it’s hard to imagine your stand includes wanting the ILs back.
Do you really want to restore your marriage?
If you do, are you willing to do what it takes?
Because right now, you are the only one who wants it.
So you are going to have to do the heavy lifting.
Is that 'fair'? No.
But for now, it is what it is.
When patient LBS’s are prefacing their advice with ‘not that I think you will listen, but I’ll give it one more try’, that’s a pretty clear message you aren't ready to even hear what it takes, let alone do what it takes.
My own experience tells me you are in danger of putting your son in a position where he finds it preferable to be / live with his dad because it is difficult to manage the internal conflict created by your immaturity...such as calling him out for spending time with his father, his family, and his father's new p.......erson.
Newsflash: Your X’s OP is not a prostitute. Or a hooker.
Just stop with that.
I get that you are angry, and why.
I really do.
But, it does nothing positive for you when you communicate that to others.
Quite the opposite.
You admire the work of RCR – you may want to read her posts regarding how name calling the OP diminishes the LBS.
Why should his family ostracize him, or the OP?
And why would you intrude on his family Thanksgiving dinner?
Your behaviour confirms to all of them that he is lucky to have escaped crazy X who has no self control.
Case in point, the niece dropping you like a hot potato.
I wouldn’t bring the remainder of this up, except you have referred to the Bible many times, so I assume you are interested in what it has to say. Particularly as it relates to marriage. (Though it actually says a lot more about love, forgiveness, and reconciling relationships.)
(For anyone reading along of a different faith tradition, or no faith tradition, feel free to skip ahead because oddly enough, the Bible stuff doesn't apply to people who don't follow the Bible 8)).
MGG, you've studied this so you know that Jesus, when asked, said that divorce was not part of God's plan. Instead, Mosaic law allowed divorce due to people's hardened hearts.
Your X’s heart is hardened, for sure.
But what about the state of your own heart?
If you are going to use the Bible to guide your stand, why not start with the Gospels. Particularly the part about removing the plank from one’s own eye before trying to pluck the speck from another.
That is the basis of the mirror work RCR has written about.
Yes, adultery is a sin. But sexual sin isn’t a super sin. You can comb through both Old and New Testaments but you won't find any direct link between committing adultery and going to hell.
It’s just not there.
God definitely corrects, even condemns, sinners.
But the Scriptures run a little short on the details regarding how.
Despite the popular "you're going to hell" that people like to toss about like anti-pixie dust, the actual answer is beyond our pay grade.
Is adultery wrong? Yes.
Not honouring your father and your mother is also wrong.
It comes even higher on the list than adultery, but after keeping the Sabbath.
Not that we're counting.
As far as I can tell marriage brings families together so the FIL/MIL part counts just the same.
You may want to check your own ticket for the train to H.E.Double Toothpicks for not upholding that particular directive.
You will be seated in the car ahead of your husband.
But after all of the Sunday shoppers.
Re: your son's Thanksgiving dinner.
It is worth remembering that Jesus himself broke bread far more often with prostitutes and sinners (which had to include adulterers because there are so many of them) than he did with self-righteous Pharisees.
If it was OK for Jesus to hang out with prostitutes, your son is following a pretty good example.
In fact, Jesus dining regularly with sinners is what ticked the holier-than-thou Pharisees off enough to plot to kill Him.
Ironic.
The comforting thing is, the overarching theme of the Bible is God’s on-going effort to reconcile Himself to his people, despite their tendency to continually abandon, hurt and disappoint Him.
And, it's a compelling view on just how much he was willing to sacrifice, ie: His Son, in order to reconcile with the people He loves.
Which are all the people.
All. The. People.
It is easy enough to condemn someone with sound-bite scripture. Taking to heart actual passages like Proverbs 14:1; 14:29; 15:31 and 16:32 is quite a lot harder. Believe me, I have been on this journey myself.
I’m sorry you are going through this awful experience, MGG, I really am.
You may not have had any control over your XH’s choices and actions.
But you have full control over how you respond.
It's up to you to take it.
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It was inconceivable to me that my h simply did not care what I thought, felt or what happened to me. But it was real. For me it was a relief to get to the point where I would open my mouth and then go, no, File under F for Futile, just wasting my breath. No Truth Darts would work bc he simply did not care.
I agree. Truth darts DON'T work and actually are counterproductive. And in the big picture of things, do not have any effect. I'm not saying telling the truth isn't sometimes necessary, but it should be your own personal truth, not silly general stuff like, "Adultery is a sin." If that was something that mattered to the MLCer, then they wouldn't be doing what they are doing anyway.
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I think, with hindsight, that finding our own boundaries and using them is OUR biggest and most useful version of a truth dart. And much more productive for us.
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Can you identify reasons for your stand in addition to your vow?
Are you standing because you love your H?
And your family?
And believe in what was good in your marriage?
Or are you standing out of defiance? To make an example of your XH for breaking his?
Actually, all of the above.
Because I'm Standing for S15 - and I hope to make lemonade out of lemons/this whole nightmare. Per RCR: "Do you want to teach your children that relationships are not always easy, but they can be healed?" And if the Greatest Biblical Lesson Ever comes by the way of exposing his Scarlet Letter, so be it.
Marriage is a physical, emotional and spiritual covenant that God expects to be permanent. He joins a man and woman together. It isn't merely some legal arrangement or relationships of convenience. It is a bond created and sealed by the God of the universe. And Jesus said, "Let no man separate." Those powerful words pack a serious warning.
With that being said, OW IS a prostitute. She is only with H now, after he's lost significant weight, AND makes over $300k per year. Cha-Ching!
Sorry, but that's a hooker. (Conversely, I was with H when he was obese, and made next to nothing.)
Lest we downplay said affair - and I feel it was, by defending OW - I quote David Clarke, PHD: "Marriage is so important to God that is you break it for unacceptable reasons, He hates you. This may sound harsh and uncharacteristic of God, but that is how holy the institution of marriage is to Him.
An affair is one of the most vicious attacks possible on a marriage. The only thing worse would be your H trying to kill you physically. He has certainly killed your marriage and just about killed you emotionally by being with another woman. Adultery strikes at the very heart of a marriage because it destroys the oneness God has created. Sexual purity is an essential part of a healthy marriage: 'Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge'" - Heb.13:4)
Sooo.....right there. Pretty dang clear!
I do think your post was very intelligent. We just agree to disagree.
p.s. Adultery breaks FIVE of the Ten Commandments. FIVE! And, that includes dishonoring your parents.....
p.p.s. My BD was October 2016.
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Megogirl,
Of course, we agree to disagree.
I just wanted to comment on this
p.s. Adultery breaks FIVE of the Ten Commandments. FIVE! And, that includes dishonoring your parents.....
p.p.s. My BD was October 2016.
Your first p.s. lost me; and if your BD was two years ago, you are most probably wasting your time and energy sending truth darts... at this stage, they are still in the thick of replay according to RCR.
I think, with hindsight, that finding our own boundaries and using them is OUR biggest and most useful version of a truth dart. And much more productive for us.
This!!
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How did my first p.s. "lose you?" Well, I'll just list the five:
With his adultery he has broken the SEVENTH
He has broken the FIRST because his mistress is an idol
He has broken the FIFTH because he has dishonored his parents
He has broken the NINTH because of all the lying he has done
He has broken the TENTH by coveting someone who is not his.
Quite the feat there, H!
I just figure that at the very least, S15 can learn a valuable lesson....or, FIVE....
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I see.
I rather think that you believe adultery to be the worst possible sin.
The God I believe in is full of mercy and love for the sinner. Who am I to condemn another sinner such as I? My h. is just as deserving of God's grace as I and that is what I pray for. It is not my responsibility to expose him, it is my responsibility to cover him in prayer.
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The God I believe in is full of mercy and love for the sinner. Who am I to condemn another sinner such as I? My h. is just as deserving of God's grace as I and that is what I pray for.
That is fine, but the Bible teaches us to confront sin, and the sinner. God confronted sin in the Israelites again, and again. Jesus confronted sin in the Pharisees. In his letters to New Testament churches, Paul confronted their sins without hesitation.
The Bible's teaching on confronting people in sin is not popular in church (nor here either, apparently!) It is not a good PR message; it is not a way to fill pews. Confronting sinners is awkward. And we can't control how the sinner responds to the confrontation. That is his responsibility, and God will hold him accountable.
But if we are to refuse to confront sin, we are violating the clear techniques of Scripture. If we refuse to confront out H's sins, we're enabling it. We're supporting it, and approving of it.
And that causes us to sin because we're not doing as the Bible says to do.
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I just don't think it is my place to do this to my husband and the father of my children.
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The God I believe in is full of mercy and love for the sinner. Who am I to condemn another sinner such as I? My h. is just as deserving of God's grace as I and that is what I pray for.
That is fine, but the Bible teaches us to confront sin, and the sinner. God confronted sin in the Israelites again, and again. Jesus confronted sin in the Pharisees. In his letters to New Testament churches, Paul confronted their sins without hesitation.
The Bible's teaching on confronting people in sin is not popular in church (nor here either, apparently!) It is not a good PR message; it is not a way to fill pews. Confronting sinners is awkward. And we can't control how the sinner responds to the confrontation. That is his responsibility, and God will hold him accountable.
But if we are to refuse to confront sin, we are violating the clear techniques of Scripture. If we refuse to confront out H's sins, we're enabling it. We're supporting it, and approving of it.
And that causes us to sin because we're not doing as the Bible says to do.
On most of this we actually do agree. Other than I believe human responsibility stops after compassionately pointing out to another believer their conduct may be out of sync with God's guidance. After that, as Billy Graham famously said, it's the Holy Spirit's job to convict, God's place to judge, and my job to love.
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I just don't think it is my place to do this to my husband and the father of my children.
Not surprising. Confronting any sinner is painful and difficult, especially if it's your spouse.
You won't hear many sermons on Matthew 18, and any other confrontation passages. You won't see much confrontation going on in churches. Looking the other way is a whole lot easier - but it's the opposite of what the Bible tells us to do.
That's why I am a Stander, yet have zero qualms about calling my H out on his BS......
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Other than I believe human responsibility stops after compassionately pointing out to another believer their conduct may be out of sync with God's guidance
H has been banging this hooker for over two years. Exactly how much compassion am I expected to have at this point?
That's why I took the liberty of calling him out with a single sentence: "You'd better hope that there is no afterlife." Putting the onus squarely on him, and the God that he USED to follow.....
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Christ came and told us to "love one another as I have loved you". He especially stated that we must love our enemies, those who abandon, betray and reject us.
He asked the crowd who wanted to stone the women who had committed adultery, who among them would cast the first stone...since no one did, he then spoke to her and said "Go and sin no more".
He will forgive all sin..if we repent and confess to him.
God also gave man free will. He did not want people to just follow him blindly but he gave us a choice to...quite a difference.
My conservative Irish priest told me a very long time ago, that I cannot "judge" what is going on in my husband's heart, that is between My xyzcf and God. He also told me love must be free.
God loved us so much, that he gave us the freedom to love Him and follow his commandments...there is also a great deal more spiritually that can be attacking our marriages and families. Evil does exist.
I trust in Jesus. His will not mine. I answer for my own sins and leave my husband in His hands knowing that there is no better place for him to be.
1 Corinthians 13:
1
If I speak in human and angelic tongues* but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal.a
2
And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing.b
3
If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.c
4
* Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated,d
5
it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,e
6
it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.
7
It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.f
8
* Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing.
9
For we know partially and we prophesy partially,
10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
11
When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.
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At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known.g
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* So faith, hope, love remain, these three;h but the greatest of these is love.
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My conservative Irish priest told me a very long time ago, that I cannot "judge" what is going on in my husband's heart, that is between My xyzcf and God
THIS.....
Although, I don't feel what I said was at all judgmental. I could have said, May God have mercy on your soul, because that's really what I meant.
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I won't chastise you for what was said. Sometimes you just can't hold it in and I'd imagine divorce day would be one of those days. I don't think I was angry when my divorce papers came in the mail. I just wanted to leave and go far away. In shock maybe. I'm almost 1.5 years out from BD and rarely blow up at XH anymore (we still live together). Only when he tries extremely hard to bait me. And when I blow up, I blow up all the way and he will be silent for the next two days or stay out all night (video chatting) knowing it bothers me. Me blowing up gives him an excuse in his mind I guess. So I can see where lashing out seems counterproductive but does it really matter in the end? They're going to do what they want to do either way. Even when he occassionally texts OW in front of me isn't so bothersome anymore since I know he's usually telling her fanciful lies.
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and I'd imagine divorce day would be one of those days
Ohhhh....and it WAS.
It was my last hurrah, my last chance to stick it to him....and one final implication that he'd better repent to God now for everything that has transpired over the past two years, or else....?!?
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Everything that has transpired over the last two years is going to continue to transpire for another three, five, 10 more years. Be prepared. The only thing that you have implanted in his brain is that you think that you are a moral authority without sin. The kind of truth darts that might have a chance to stick are ones that make him think about what he’s done, not the ones that make him think about how you feel about what he’s done.
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Except that "moral authority" implies that I believe that I'm morally better than, and I know I'm not. Far from it.
But I also have not spent over two years violating 50% of the Ten Commandments every minute of every day. That's actually REALLY hard to do, if you read them. Most people, myself included, are (maybe) one here, one there....not FIVE.
And H can REPENT for them all, in one foul swoop! Alas, he doesn't care.
It's his own eternity.....not mine.
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I'm going to make this very brief and to the point. At the moment, you are far too immature to have any hope of reconciling with your husband.
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Immature? What? I'm 47 and just trying to survive, following the Bible....so this is another weird comment that I should probably just flat-out ignore....
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This thread is certainly...interesting to read.
I totally get your anger mego. Believe me I struggled with it for ages in the beginning. But it wasn't so much about the hurt I was feeling from the betrayal, or the lying, or despair of losing my best friend and husband all at once... it was the injustice of it all.
How was it fair I gave everything to move to this country, I had been a good wife, I got married, I was faithful, we had time alone as a couple, then I gave him beautiful children...and a beautiful home...I always consulted him and CARED what he thought about everything. I lived to please him....
Yet he gets to just walk out? He can just walk out the door, leave the kids, the house, the responsibility, all the mess, the clean up and thousands of tears...all on me? How was that fair? I had done nothing wrong! I didn't deserve it! I didn't get any reason why...I didn't even get asked how I felt...
And that made me furious. How could I do everything I was supposed to...yet this was the outcome?!
Eventually I just came to accept that $h!te happens. All of this has happened, I can't change it, there is no way I could have changed it. My husband is choosing to throw away his life because he feels something is missing...something we are holding him back from. I KNOW that isn't true. I KNOW that he had everything anyone could ask for...but he was so lucky to get it at such a young age...he doesn't realise all the crap that is out there. He thinks there MUST be something he missed. So off he went...
And I have yet to see a smile on his face. Not one. His mom says it is like living with her father. The atmosphere is thick and sad...and angry...always angry. And it is everyone else's fault but his.
Talk of the Bible always gets interesting. There are so many ways people use and interpret it. A catholic and a Jehovah witness just won't agree, even though they both read the Bible.
I don't have a label. I was raised in a baptist with my granny, Pentecostal with my father, native american beliefs from my mother, ...and several other influences.
I will agree with you mego that to many people are happy to turn a blind eye to clear 'sin'. I like to just refer to it as someone is being an @$$hole. ;) You see a coworker cheating on his wife...you say nothing. That is deplorable whatever religion you are. I am sorry but it just is. Would I go on to badger the person on a daily basis about it? Probably not. But I would certainly make it known that I thought that was not the right thing to do, and would tell them to tell their wife or I would. Even if she didn't believe me, I wouldn't sleep at night knowing I didn't do the right thing. I was so angry at all the people at my husbands work who said nothing...it added to the betrayal. After that whenever they talked about their cheating partner or whatever I would probably be unable to hide my disgusted face and leave the room. You don't need words to illustrate how you disagree with something.
I expressly told my husband in the beginning what he was doing was wrong, it was crossing a line... at one point I physically couldn't look at him. It was like he was covered in a germy disgusting clear film...but now...I don't speak about what he does, I don't ask him...but if I catch him in a clear and blatant lie...a ??? look is enough. He knows I am not buying it, but no words need to be said. Sometimes if I feel the need to comment I do it in a humours way. We were always connected with a good sense of humour, and if I can make my point very clear, without harsh words...I do.
I actually find leaving things open ended work best. So for instance when he said ''Oh let me guess, you think I am a $h!tety parent'' I simply replied, ''Beast, you know exactly what type of parent you are.''... he will spend more time analyzing what type of parent he is, without me ever saying what my opinion is. Because if I were to say ''I think you are barely medicore, every other weekend dad...'' That may be true, but it is harsh, hurts his feelings, and instantly makes him defensive and slip right into a victim role.
Take his ability to be a victim away from him.
Something really crazy has to happen for me to reach that level of rage now. Mostly because I just shrug and say..welp he is just nuts what do I expect.... ::)
Most notably I recently found crotchless tights in my daughters stuff....they were not mine...or hers :o.....so when i picked up the kids, I put them in the car, then walked back to the door where he was standing outside on the pavement in front of MIL house..I handed him the crotchless tights and said ''I'd appreciate if this type of thing doesn't make it into our 8 year olds things''....and his face was enough. I didn't have to go crazy, I didn't have to scream and yell, I didn't go into a tirade on the street...all of which would have been justifiable. I was calm, collected, and went back to the car. He scuttled back in the house like I lit his trousers on fire....Message received. ;)
The point is.. you can make it very clear you do not agree with what he is doing, without bashing him over the head with scripture. MLCers aren't planning out next week, nevermind what is gonna happen in the afterlife.
Mine routinely likes to say ''None of this matters because I will be dead by the time I am 40 anyway''...
They just can't see the longevity of anything, nevermind their ''everlasting eternal butt poking torment''. ;D
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I think LBSes fall broadly into one of two categories-those who see MLC as a moral transgression and those who see it as a mental illness. Neither way is easy, but I think looking at it as the latter is more helpful. At least in my own religious beliefs a person with a mental illness won't be held accountable on judgment day. Initially I looked at my H's MLC from a religious angle and while there is that element, looking at it as an illness just made the pieces fit together so much better in understanding what is going on. The problem I faced was people in religious forums were unwilling to even see MLC as a thing. To them, this was a religious matter and I was raked over the coals for even suggesting it was anything but.
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Good points goner. I am in the in between.
I know Beast is crazier than a fruit bat. But I also know he is morally wrong.
I don't think you can blame everything they do on being nuts. Sure some of it only makes sense if the person is mentally ill. But being mentally ill doesn't mean you have no control over the moral indiscretion you do.
A person with severe depression is mentally ill. They can be excused for ignoring their daily duties, or maybe doing drugs or alcohol to numb themselves. That can easily be written off as they were just mentally ill. But it would not excuse them for murdering someone, or burning someones house down, or ....whatever.
At some point your mental illness can not longer be the excuse. At some point you CHOSE to do it.
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Except that "moral authority" implies that I believe that I'm morally better than, and I know I'm not. Far from it.
But I also have not spent over two years violating 50% of the Ten Commandments every minute of every day. That's actually REALLY hard to do, if you read them. Most people, myself included, are (maybe) one here, one there....not FIVE.
And H can REPENT for them all, in one foul swoop! Alas, he doesn't care.
It's his own eternity.....not mine.
You don't think you're morally superior. Yet you might as well be screaming all of your posts from a pulpit.
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Mental illnesses, morals, just big mistakes.
Doesn't matter. It's wrong.
But we ad LBS getting angry. Judgeing, and not foregivving, that is wrong too in God's eyes.
We are all human. Judgement day??? We will all face our wrongs. No wrong is worse than the other.
Stages of anger and grief we all go through.
Just part of it.
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I think LBSes fall broadly into one of two categories-those who see MLC as a moral transgression and those who see it as a mental illness.
I don't see it as either. I see it as HIS dishonesty and disrespect of me and the life we built together. I don't care about moral platitudes about the sanctity of marriage. And MLCers for darn sure don't care about statements like that either.
As for megogirl, this is your thread and I've read along for quite a while and fought the urge to jump in. But sometimes things get to a point where lurking LBSs can't just continue to lurk. Every time you get advice, you reply with the LBS equivalent of my 6 year old nephew's "Yeah, but..." when we say something "corrective" to him. Not just now and then. Ever. Single. Time. You don't seem to have any interest in hearing what people have to say that might help you in your stand. You have a NEED to say what you say and you say it. And we're all familiar with that behavior because we all have MLCers.
You say you're standing because you love RCR and her marriage was saved. Because her situation was her situation and her experiences were her experiences and we are all grateful to RCR for setting up this site and giving us a huge arsenal of articles and blogs about her experience and knowledge and advice she'd gleaned over the years. But a fraction of a percentage of marriages on this site have come back together.
You've said multiple times that your absolute sole reason for standing for your S15. But you're already, what, 2 years in? So you have potentially 3, 5, 7 more years to go before anything changes. Will you be here in a few years saying you are standing for your S25?
And while you are standing for your S-now-15, I assume it's to teach him something about growing up and about marriage and patience. HB often writes about her experience and how it was always in her mind to teach her then teenage son lessons about patience and loving the sinner/hating the sin, etc. What are you teaching him about patience when you say whatever snarky remark comes to mind every time you get hurt.
And let's not get it twisted... yeah, I can't really pull off immature teenage vernacular, but you do it all the time, so I thought I'd try.
Sorry, that was snarky of me. But it was on purpose. See how it feels when someone makes a snarky remark about you that also has a tinge of truth? Not good, right? It's all in the delivery. Because now you don't like me very much, do you? And that's how your H feels immediately after you "zing" him.
Only you and I are not MLCers and my remark and your previous remarks don't get encoded in our brains as black and white statements about who we are. But in your H's brains? Well, there's multiple threads full of theories on that. But I'm one to believe that at least while he's in MLC, what you say to him, and especially the tone of voice you say it in, becomes who you are. Period. So now you've built yourself up in his mind as someone he doesn't want to approach because you'll say something either sarcastic or loaded with platitudes he doesn't give a rat's pitooty about. And while some or all of it may be true...again, He. Doesn't. Hear. It. He only hears the sarcastic tone.
And if he does hear the truth bits, they make him feel bad. And what do MLCers do when they feel bad? They project. They blame. They get angry. And they retreat.
So every single time you make a comment that may make you feel good for a split second because you're releasing some built up anger, what is really happening is you are solidifying his view of you as exactly what you want him to see himself as.
THAT is why we are all continuing to try to reach you. That's why we're all continuing to post. No one is commenting to you because we don't like you or we think you shouldn't be standing or you're not worth our time.
Every single one of us could just move on to other threads and stop commenting to you. For the love of God, you told someone to "shoo, fly, shoo" and she still came back. When I read that, my first thought was honestly, "Man, I give up on this chick. She's just never going to listen to anyone."
But people came back. And keep coming back. We are trying to help you, Mego. We've all been where you are. I've been at this for almost 4 years. Now, granted, I'm not standing anymore, but my circumstances are different and my choices will be different. Some people commenting on your thread have been around for 5, 7, 10, 12 years. Some are standing. Some aren't. But we are all taking time out of our day to write to you.
(and p.s. You can check my post history. I NEVER write posts this long unless it's journaling on my own thread. You can say I'm a bit stingy with my advice. So this long post on your thread is out of character for me and that should say something to you.)
You want to save your marriage. You HAVE to start listening to and absorbing what people are trying to tell you. Because you love RCR and you've even twisted some of what she's written to make your actions seem okay. RCR never told her H he better hope there isn't an afterlife.
I'm not in the camp of all compassion all the time. In one of my early threads you can see where I almost word for word posted an interaction with my H where I really let him have it. I mean, REALLY let him have it. I held nothing back. But it was early on, at a choice moment. You have to pick your moments.
There are moments when you might be able to toss out a humorously sarcastic-yet-painfully-true-dart. Pure nasty sarcasm, especially during replay, will likely never land right on its intended target and will have the opposite effect.
Now, I've said immature a few times here and I don't want to leave it unexplained because I'm not saying it to be hurtful. Goner also mentioned immaturity. We're all immature at times, especially when our own inner children get wounded - you know, like when someone betrays us, abandons us, treats us despicably. We all get it.
A mature adult never needs to defend their maturity by telling us their age and using the bible to explain whatever immature behavior they've been accused of.
My advice, for what it's worth, is to put your bible aside. Your beliefs are yours and you are entitled to them. But whatever your religious beliefs, your H obviously doesn't share them and continually spouting them to him as a reason why he should not be doing what he's doing is only going to push him further and further away. He will not wake up one day and have an epiphany, haul his adulterous tushy to church, repent and show up on your doorstep to tell you you were right.
Even if he ever wants to reconcile, he will likely still never tell you you were right. About anything.
He doesn't care that he's breaking commandments. And if you think about it, really think about it, we ALL break or bend commandments at some point in our life. And unless we are devout followers of scripture, we don't really care. We do things wrong in life. We either self-correct and continue on, or sadly and more often, we explain it away and continue on. Your H is NEVER going to be swayed by talk of breaking commandments.
There are MLCers who used to be ministers. They served God their entire life. They know the bible inside and out. They still had MLCs. They still had affairs. They still broke commandment after commandment. It doesn't matter to an MLCer.
My MLCer knows I have advanced cancer. He was pretty much a "mama's boy" from the day we met. His own mother, my MIL, who he always listened to, is twisting herself into a pretzel to find out what's going on with my health. She's of course loyal to her son, but she's also told people she's disappointed in him. That's HUGE. A narcissistic mother admitting to outsiders that she's disappointed in the perfect can-do-no-wrong fruit of her loins? That's HUGE. Unprecedented. STILL had no effect. I could die tomorrow. He'll still be in MLC.
Your stand can't be predicated on the breaking of commandments. It can't even be based solely on the fact that you share a son.
You've been asked multiple times why are YOU standing. What is it about your H and your marriage that you deem worth standing for? You've said in the past your H was always abusive. Some people took that literally. I read your posts and saw where he wasn't perfect but assumed the "always abusive" comment was another comment you made in anger - but see there, another example of choosing your words carefully and explaining yourself completely. Anger clouds everything, including our ability to be perfectly clear in what we're saying.
Why are YOU standing? What's in it for YOU? Not what's in it for your S15, who might be S30 and have a wife and kids of his own by the time this is all over. Not what's in it for your H, because right now and for a long time to come, your H has that covered. With every move he makes and ever choice he makes, he cares what's in it for him and only him.
Are you simply angry that you stood by him when he was fat and poor and now someone else gets to enjoy the spoils of his weight loss and increased salary?
Yeah. We've all been there. You're not alone. But like others have said, she's not a hooker or a prostitute unless he found her standing on a corner offering him sex acts for $50. She's clearly got low moral character. She's clearly selfish in ways that until this happened, I was naive to. (I didn't know selfishness on this level existed. I really didn't. Which is why I think I had a harder time wrapping my head around all of this early on.)
But she's not a hooker. She's not a prostitute. Again, I'm not one who cares if people call the OP names in anger here. This is a place to vent. I've called my H's OW a wh*r^ more times than I can count.
But in real life? It just makes you look bad. Angry, bitter, and immature. You want to look better than them because you ARE better than them. And your son is watching and hearing, even when you think he's not. You can't say you're standing for him and then keep showing him that this is how to handle it when people betray you.
There's also the matter of what your H actually will remember of all. Angry texts in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner is not how you want to be remembered. If you believe in the RCR/HB path of MLC, then you believe that at some point replay will end. And when he starts to come out of the fog, do you want his memory bank full of angry texts and cutting remarks about broken commandments? Or do you want him to remember you as a picture of grace and dignity? Which do you think will make him feel more remorse?
On the celebs in the news thread recently, I shared that Hugh Jackman was being interviewed on the radio, talking about how his mother left his family in the early 1970s. Years later, she told him somehow she always knew it wasn't supposed to be forever and - his exact words that she said she told him - it felt like someone else was making those choices. But when all was said and done, she couldn't go back. His father was left to take care of 5 children alone and he rebuilt a life that didn't allow for reconciliation. But Hugh talks about his father as a man so full of grace and caring. He calls his father "his rock."
Imagine if he spent his childhood hearing his father call his mother a wh*r^, shooting off cutting remarks every time he had to speak to her, or constantly railing about which commandments she'd broken and how she needs to REPENT! REPENT! REPENT! Your son is listening, Megogirl. He is.
Sorry, I've gone on and on here (again, SO not like me and I hope it doesn't come off as just rambling), but I felt this really strong compulsion to step in here, Mego. This isn't a Lifetime movie. It's your life. Who do you want to be in YOUR life?
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Or do you want him to remember you as a picture of grace and dignity? Which do you think will make him feel more remorse?
Actually, I don't care which. It's his choice.
All I know is that when I saw the pic of THANKSGIVING FREAKING DINNER with her in it, and also S15, Mama Bear erupted, with claws out.
I have been $h!te on for long enough. But now that he's bringing her unto the fray? It's egregious, it's disgusting, it is anything but acceptable, and I can't even.
It seems as though LBS's give waaaaay too many free passes. And I have too much respect for myself, and the covenant of marriage, to offer another.
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I'm sorry. I know it hurts and I know this will also hurt to hear, but you are divorced now. He can do whatever he wants and bring whomever he wants to Thanksgiving dinner.
Does it SUCK? Yup. But your response is not helping you. How many ways can it be said?
Last year on my WEDDING ANNIVERSARY, and the night before I was going into the hospital for a double mastectomy, my still 100% married H allowed his OW to change her Fakebook profile picture to a smiling picture of the two of them.
It hurts. It HURTS. But that's part of this process, having the patience to go through it and not react.
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Your stand can't even be based solely on the fact that you share a son.
I beg to differ......
I Stand for our family unit that he is trying so desperately to demolish. And bringing home some lowlife slime ball is only aiding and abetting in doing just that.
See, neither he, nor she, gets a free pass from me, Standing-Not Standing-whatever.
But hey, I didn't call her a prostitute, either!
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See, neither he, nor she, gets a free pass from me, Standing-Not Standing-whatever.
MG.... I GIVE UP!!!!
I am normally a very compassionate understanding person. I have four children and I am patient and respectful in understanding new ideas and different views. Life is a learning process....it is very important to learn something new every day and to look at the world with different perspectives. I am sorry MG but you absolutely frustrate me! I understand your hurt, like every single other member on HS, we all have been to hell and we are slowly healing. By your story you have not endured as much chaos as others...but it is no competition. We all have broken hearts and our dreams and our sacred family units have been destroyed.
I will be absolutely blunt with you: you need to want to accept help and hear advice otherwise you are wasting your time and your life. Your arrogance in your replies to people helping you is appalling and extremely alarming.
Have you ever considered that maybe your attitude forced your H into another woman's arms? You just don't listen, your sassiness becomes arrogance and sarcasism. I don't know if this is your usual personality or whether this is the new found personality of being a LBS. I understand the anger of a LBS...I get it...BUT you have taken BITTERNESS to another level. If you continue down the path you are heading your Son will be the next person to vacate from your life. Is this what you want? I doubt so very much! MG get some help....your anger and bitterness is containing you and you are loosing who you are. Don't worry about your H or the prostitute....focus on you....you seriously need healing and help.
MG you have received some awesome advice. Some truth darts that have just fallen on your deaf ears. It appears from your replies (forgive me if I am wrong...but it certainly is how it comes across) that you are not prepared to accept or listen to any other views other than your own. Whilst you are in the frame of mind that you are currently in, everyone is wasting their time attempting to help you. ATM you don't want help, in your mind your opinion is the right way and that is the end of the story! You have continually insulted (sarcastically) and belittled HS members who are trying to help you.
I just hope that one day, when you are ready, that you re-read all of the advice given to you on this thread by many members who actually care and understand your predicament. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. MG you are the horse in this situation. You need to want to help yourself.
I just hope that your arrogance does not lead to your own downfall and knocking yourself out. You risk loosing the respect of your son and many others by your behaviour. Why would your H ever contemplate returning to you? I am sorry MG but you really need to look at youself....do your mirror work....your H is not your biggest problem atm. You seriously need to fix you. Get some help urgently...see a counsellor.......your bitterness is containing you beyond.
I am confident that people in RL have told you the similiar. Yes you believe in the MLC process like so many...you have done your research...but you have failed to heal and do your own mirror work. I wish you luck MG...atm you need it.
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Nas, just for the record this is not Mego's story thread.
This is a Discussion thread, started by Mego, for anyone who wants to participate.
A Discussion thread is for people to discuss a topic, give different viewpoints, feed back and opinions.
Everyone is welcome on our Discussion threads. :)
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Nas, just for the record this is not Mego's story thread.
This is a Discussion thread, started by Mego, for anyone who wants to participate.
A Discussion thread is for people to discuss a topic, give different viewpoints, feed back and opinions.
Everyone is welcome on our Discussion threads. :)
I'm confused, but if I gave the impression I didn't think someone was welcome, I apologize.
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Two suggestions Mego, but as many have said, doubt you will take them to heart:
1) Read "misdirected anger toward the other woman" on Heart's Blessings site. She mirrors (in her own unique way) the mission of HS: Standing.
However, that article needs to be taken into context with MANY others...In other words, although it basically says be angry at the mid lifer spouse, NOT the other woman, as has been said many times *IF* standing is your goal you don't want to launch truth darts with a gatlin gun. Truth darts are supposed to be strategically tossed, with careful aim.
https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/lifes-lessons-misdirected-anger-at-the-other-woman/
2) Maybe you might consider reading "Chump Lady", instead of HS. She might be more befitting to the direction you are headed...
-T
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Oh no. Nas. You didn't give that impression at all. :)
I was referring to what you said in your post:
"As for megogirl, this is your thread and I've read along for quite a while and fought the urge to jump in."
You can jump in any time you want on a Discussion thread.
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Ah, gotcha. Thanks, Thunder. :)
I guess the entire purpose of the discussion proposed in the first post has been completely lost.
Finalized settlement agreement today.....so his D should be official in a matter of days.
I am proud of myself. H was trying to avoid eye contact, but I marched straight up to him and said, "You'd really better hope that there is no afterlife."
So.....what now? I suppose I'm really addressing the covenant-keepers now. Because even though I was not raised Catholic, my values regarding marriage mirror those of their faith. One, and done.
So, covenant-keepers: How do you answer the nay-sayers regarding continuance of your Stand? Because I know there will be plenty of them..!
The question I guess was how to address naysayers, but then the entire thread has become about Mego's parting shot to her H.
Since I'm not a covenant keeper by any stretch of the imagination, if this discussion is to get back on track, I definitely have nothing to add, but maybe others do.
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Well Nas, it happens. It goes off in different directions and sometimes someone needs to get it back to the original topic.
Nice of you to do that for Mego. :)
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You have continually insulted (sarcastically) and belittled HS members who are trying to help you.
Um....WTH are you talking about? And WHO TH are you talking about?
If I've insulted anyone it's the hooker - yeah, I just called her that - but I hope she dies in a fire. Good riddance.
I may be sarcastic - a lot - but, I am from New England and we all are that way. It is our humor.
However, I'm generally not a polarizing person. I shy away from political debates. I know my heart is in a good place. I've even had a very sweet guy here tell me that I am "a good woman" and that he "should have married me" (thank you, cdl!)
So idk - perhaps this is all just "mob mentality." Who knows?
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If I've insulted anyone it's the hooker - yeah, I just called her that - but I hope she dies in a fire. Good riddance.
I'm not gonna lie...that made me laugh so much. :o ;D
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I'm born and raised in New England. So is Nah. We've never responded to a comment we didn't like by saying "Shoo fly, shoo."
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We've never responded to a comment we didn't like by saying "Shoo fly, shoo."
Yeah, that *wasn't* sarcasm.
That was just getting irritated one too many times.....
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So idk - perhaps this is all just "mob mentality." Who knows?
Birds of a feather flock together, lol.
However, this is not what I see here. You have had input from a variety of people of very different points of view.
Perhaps you just want the opinions from the so called covenant standers as you stated in your opening e-mail ???
Even those who are covenant standers (few and far between) have not been very supportive of your 'attitude' toward ow and your h. so I don't think you can put it down to mob or herd mentality. If it were mob mentality, you would see the different 'groups' agreeing among themselves and that is not what we see here.
TinT pointed out that you might be more comfortable posting on "Chump Lady", I agree with him, I am sure you would find many supporters there.
I have given you an answer a few posts above when I realized my error in not answering the main question in your opening post. I suggest that if you want a discussion on a subject, keep it simple and ask your question outright without posting your criticism of your h.'s or ow's behavior, keep that for your story thread or discussions on that subject.
I am just attempting to answer your question in the last post.
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but I hope she dies in a fire.
:'(
Really?
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We've never responded to a comment we didn't like by saying "Shoo fly, shoo."
Yeah, that *wasn't* sarcasm.
That was just getting irritated one too many times.....
Whatever you want to call it, please don't equate it with being a New Englander. I'm from New England. My friends and family are from New England. The only other New Englander I know who would behave like that is my MLC H, who is...well, he's an MLCer.
It's not a New England trait. It's you. And this response in itself is a very good illustration of you absolutely refusing to take responsibility for yourself or your actions. Which is pretty much step 1 in the mirror work handbook.
When someone irritates you, as an adult human being with empathy and years of experience behind you and just simple good old decent behavior, you are perfectly within your rights to speak your truth. Say that you feel unheard. Say that you feel misunderstood. Say you are irritated and give your reasons why.
You also might look at what they said and try to understand where they are coming from. You might say you respect their right to have their opinion and then counter with your own opinion if it differs. Have a dialog. Or if you don't want to have a dialog, simply move on.
To say something like "shoo, fly, shoo" is just one example of you being rude and really childish. And more than that, it's dismissive. Which happens to be a behavior that is probably a huge trigger for a lot of LBSs on here, since MLCers are so dismissive and refuse to hear us, especially immediately after BD. I can almost guarantee your MLCer was dismissive like that to you and I can almost guarantee it made you feel all kinds of things that were not good.
I even tried to direct this thread back to the question you claimed you wanted input on in your first post and you still managed to veer it back to justifying your behavior (and managing yet another "the OW is a hooker" in the process).
We get it. You hate your H's OW. I'm not so freaking fond of my H's OW either. But there is SO MUCH truth in the statement that you give her more power if you dwell on her existence. And right now, due in part to you, your H's OW is Cersei Lannister sitting on the Iron Throne. She's feeding off your anger, whether you know it or not, whether you admit it or not.
Many people have chimed in and talked about how hard it is to remain silent in the face of such hurtful actions. "Patience is a virtue" is a saying for a reason. It's your choice if you want to keep shooting off barbed insults and moral platitudes to your H. But again, at least take ownership of your choice and don't try to claim it's some kind of New England regional idiosyncrasy. It's not.
But your question was how do you respond to naysayers. Well, I'd argue that in your case, those naysayers are probably really confused. You're seething with anger and spewing nasty statements about people paying in the afterlife and wanting people to die in fires, and yet you're standing for your marriage. I think any clear thinking person would see the rigid dichotomy between your searing hatred and your hope for a restored marriage and be utterly perplexed.
And as one last thought, you said:
Your stand can't even be based solely on the fact that you share a son.
I beg to differ......
I Stand for our family unit that he is trying so desperately to demolish. And bringing home some lowlife slime ball is only aiding and abetting in doing just that.
See, neither he, nor she, gets a free pass from me, Standing-Not Standing-whatever.
But hey, I didn't call her a prostitute, either!
a) I stood for quite some time and many others are standing who don't have any children. I completely respect wanting children to have a solid family unit. I completely respect wanting the LBchildren to learn lessons in patience and compassion and the unconditionals.
So I'll say again, your son is watching. And hearing. Your anger, your sarcasm, your insults...they are all born of hurt, and we ALL get that. But if you don't get a handle on it, it's only going to hurt you more. Your MLCer and the OW right now don't care and it's not hurting them. It's hurting you.
b) actually, you called her a prostitute on Ready's thread. And heck, I don't really care, you can call her whatever you darn well please. But she didn't act alone, she didn't hold a gun to his head, and the advice to read the article on misdirected anger at the OW is good and you'd benefit from taking it.
The anger is warranted. It's a stage that we all have to go through, but if you get stuck there, no one benefits, least of all you.
So in summary, here's my response to the actual question you posed in this discussion thread - and it's pretty circular: You don't have to tell anyone you're standing. It's your choice. But if you do and you come across naysayers, they are likely to be confused as to why you are saying you're standing for something that clearly has you so enraged and disgusted.
Which brings us right back to getting a handle on the anger.
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Thank you Terrified,
I agree Mego may want to check out Chump Ladies site.
You really may like Chump Ladies site, Mego.
RCR had real issues with her site, but everyone is different.
https://www.chumplady.com/
I have found some of her articles interesting, but I also found her personally quite a bitter, man hater myself. But that's just me. I never hated my H.
Just a preference, I suppose.
I would NEVER deliberately recommend her site to anyone who truly wants to reconcile with their spouse, but there are a few who maybe would benefit from her advise to toss their spouse aside and need the support from her site.
I say to each his own.
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Mego, you may want to see the exchange between RCR and Chump Lady here:
https://www.chumplady.com/2012/07/the-mid-life-crisis-made-me-do-it-really/
You can see their dialog at the bottom of the post.
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But your question was how do you respond to naysayers. Well, I'd argue that in your case, those naysayers are probably really confused. You're seething with anger and spewing nasty statements about people paying in the afterlife and wanting people to die in fires, and yet you're standing for your marriage. I think any clear thinking person would see the rigid dichotomy between your searing hatred and your hope for a restored marriage and be utterly perplexed.
And as one last thought, you said:
Your stand can't even be based solely on the fact that you share a son.
I beg to differ......
I Stand for our family unit that he is trying so desperately to demolish. And bringing home some lowlife slime ball is only aiding and abetting in doing just that.
See, neither he, nor she, gets a free pass from me, Standing-Not Standing-whatever.
But hey, I didn't call her a prostitute, either!
a) I stood for quite some time and many others are standing who don't have any children. I completely respect wanting children to have a solid family unit. I completely respect wanting the LBchildren to learn lessons in patience and compassion and the unconditionals.
So I'll say again, your son is watching. And hearing. Your anger, your sarcasm, your insults...they are all born of hurt, and we ALL get that. But if you don't get a handle on it, it's only going to hurt you more. Your MLCer and the OW right now don't care and it's not hurting them. It's hurting you.
b) actually, you called her a prostitute on Ready's thread. And heck, I don't really care, you can call her whatever you darn well please. But she didn't act alone, she didn't hold a gun to his head, and the advice to read the article on misdirected anger at the OW is good and you'd benefit from taking it.
The anger is warranted. It's a stage that we all have to go through, but if you get stuck there, no one benefits, least of all you.
So in summary, here's my response to the actual question you posed in this discussion thread - and it's pretty circular: You don't have to tell anyone you're standing. It's your choice. But if you do and you come across naysayers, they are likely to be confused as to why you are saying you're standing for something that clearly has you so enraged and disgusted.
Which brings us right back to getting a handle on the anger.
^^^^^^
What Nas said.
Exactly this.
(BTW, you did say you sent a text to your S -- while he was at Thanksgiving dinner - saying "I hope you aren't hanging out with prostitutes". So to coyly claim you haven't called OW that is a little self-delusional. And falsely accuses her. While you covet her time with the xH and the ILs you don't honour. While making Standing into an idol.
But I digress.
And need to reel in my own gift for biting remarks.
Just goes to show I need to keep looking in the mirror too. Sigh.)
ANYway, MGG, you did ask what covenant keepers to about the naysayers. I agree with Nas.
I don't call myself a covenant-keeper per se, but I do live as one.
It's been 4.5 years since BD and departure.
Legally (and emotionally) I am still married, so ....I live like a married person. It's as simple as that.
And I tell others........nothing.
Other people don't bring it up because nobody cares. They assume all is done.
If I ever have a discussion with someone, they might find my choice an odd curiosity. But they respect it.
Every now and then members of his family, or mine, or friends, will ask 'Are you divorced (yet)?'
And I say no. End of story.
They might ask if I am dating.
I say "No, not while I'm married".
They might look at me funny. And then we change the subject.
They assume I am an adult, and can make my own decisions. Period.
I don't have to address a lot of naysayers because this is simply a choice I've made for how I will be in the world. It's my choice, and no-one else's concern.
I don't wear it like a badge of honour.
And I don't take it on as a crusade, either.
The only people I talk about H with anymore are LBS friends. And I don't really have to tell them anything because they already get it.
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...
I have found some of her articles interesting, but I also found her personally quite a bitter, man hater myself. But that's just me. I never hated my H.
Just a preference, I suppose.
I would NEVER deliberately recommend her site to anyone who truly wants to reconcile with their spouse, but there are a few who maybe would benefit from her advise to toss their spouse aside and need the support from her site.
I say to each his own.
Thank you Thunder for recognizing the advice for what it was, and what it WASN'T.
As I've said many times, I try to see things objectively as best as I can. I have read HS, AND chump lady, and for *ME*, reality is somewhere in between. I believe HS is not for everyone, and I also believe CL is not for everyone.
She does come across bitter, but you have to understand HER truth. And a lot of her followers mirror her experience. For example, I *believe* in her case 6 months after she married her H, the OW made her presence known...This OW had been having a R with CL's H for many, many years. Her m was a farse right from the start. And there are posters that found out their spouse had been living double lives for the ENTIRE marriage. In THOSE cases, I don't think HS fits.
I also agree that it is NOT a site for standers. NOT AT ALL. However, if your heart has hardened, it may be easier to 'process' by reading her articles.
-T
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Even those who are covenant standers (few and far between) have not been very supportive of your 'attitude' toward ow and your h. so I don't think you can put it down to mob or herd mentality. If it were mob mentality, you would see the different 'groups' agreeing among themselves and that is not what we see here
Fine. Then, I don't know what it is.
All I know is that I've been repeatedly singled out for saying pretty innocuous things. I made the mistake of mentioning I was an OW 20+ years ago, and I'm still hearing about it. Everything from to "you're obsessed with celebrities!" to "you're still living in the early 90's!" (That latter comment just happened!)
I acknowledge that saying I hope (the person who has essentially stolen my identity) dies in a fire is not Christian, and perhaps that's where I should seek clergy. Or, maybe I'm just here, and I feel justified in saying it.
As for the fly-swatting? That was just me, being lazy. I suppose I should have said I find your comments irritating. Call me crazy but in my mind, it would have been the exact same thing.....
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And therein lies the problem. You think being rude and petty is the exact same thing as being calm, cool and collected.
And you absolutely cannot take criticism of any kind, constructive or otherwise.
In the relatively short time you’ve been the forum, i’ve watched you missed opportunity after opportunity to grow and heal due to your aggressive stubbornness, and instead I’ve seen you insult numerous people, be rude and dismissive, and sometimes just downright mean. You’re not being singled out. People are not responding to your approach because your approach is childish and rude.
Right down to the very beginning of your response here, which was simply the word, “Fine.” I can picture my teenage niece now turning on her heel, rolling her eyes and storming out of the room without listening to anything anyone has to say.
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and sometimes just downright mean.
Kindly elaborate. (....Because I called someone ELSE out for being a mean girl?). What user? What exactly did I say?
Enquiring minds....
I will tell you that your username has been mentioned to me in pm's as "One of The Ones That Should Be Avoided"....
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Interesting that you were warned about me considering I am one of the more infrequent posters. Enjoy your night, Mego.
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Thanx I will, but I still didn't get a clear answer as to who I am "mean" to, when, and how-?
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Mego, I have known Nas for years. She has always been a wonderful, caring, supportive person to everyone on this site.
Who ever is bad talking her is only trying to cause trouble. I would stay clear of them if I were you.
Please ignore them. They are not your friend.
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MG....Can you please explain why you automatically go into "attack" mode to everyone's posts? Why do you feel obligated to "fight" and/or "argue" with absolutely everyone. Everyone is not your enemy! You post asking for feedback, when you receive it you reply either dismissively, rudely or arrogantly. I am trying to work you out and I am confused!
Firstly you owe Nas an apology....and so many other posters. We are all trying to help you, but you continually attack or belittle any advice.
Secondly, please re-read this post. You have received some awesome advice, and yes some very well overdue 4x4's. It is now up to you. You can take the advice onboard and analyse your actions in order to eradicate your bitterness or you can remain bitter and turn everyone in your life away. Ultimately the choice is yours.
Thirdly, do not post a reply until you have re-read this thread at least 3 times. Open your somewhat closed mind and you may understand what the compassionate HS members are saying.
Throw the sarcasism to the curb, you are not doing yourself any favours - which is sad. We have had longtime members come out of the woodworks to reply to your post....many feeling compelled to help you because you have Red Flags in your posts....in your current mind frame you are very frustrating.
I have said this many times to you but please get some counselling, some face to face help. I am positive that you are wearing a mask, trying to be someone who you are not. You have admirable and commendable morals, values and beliefs.....your family means the world to you....but you are in dire danger of loosing everything due to your stubbornness, sarcasim and ignorance to see what you are doing....you are selling yourself short...IMO your lists do not reflect who you really are..
Please do not worry about your H....concentrate everything on healing yourself, I truly hope you take this onboard...because you gave strangers who actually care about you and want the best outcome for you.
The issue is...what outcome do you want....versus....what outcome you will cause as a result of your actions? Erractic abusive/arrogant behaviour will not get you where you want to be.
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MG....Can you please explain why you automatically go into "attack" mode to everyone's posts? Why do you feel obligated to "fight" and/or "argue" with absolutely everyone. You post asking for feedback, when you receive it you reply either dismissively, rudely or arrogantly.
Please elaborate. Because I am genuinely confused as to WTH you are talking about, and so far, your username has not been mentioned in my "Ones To Avoid" list from others on PM....
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Well now you’ve completely lost me. I’m guessing you really have no interest in saving your marriage. Are you really defending your behavior by using the old “I’m getting secret PMs from many many people telling me that you are a bad person.” My God, that’s Donald Trump-level deflecting. I can actually hear his voice in my head right now: “people are saying… “ You’ve got to be kidding me.
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MG....Hush....Shhhhh. Be quiet....Do not respond again until you have re-read this thread a few times. You just don't get it do you?
Cut the teenager rubbish out! Stop playing silly schoolgirl yard games and antics. You are selling yourself short....very short....which is very sad. HS is a great support forum for people wanting help. What exactly are you after MG? Do you want help or do you just want a place where you can continually abuse people in order to get your anger out? Don't reply...answer this to yourself. If you want help this place is a great haven...but that is entirely up to you and your attitude....people with a wealth of experience are available to you 24/7 if you want it.....
Like a Mlcer no-one can help you but yourself.
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Karma
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Please elaborate. Because I am genuinely confused as to WTH you are talking about, and so far, your username has not been mentioned in my "Ones To Avoid" list from others on PM....
Why don't you name the people sending you those PMs? It would make the conversation so much more lively and interesting.
Also, why are you such a sheep to just believe what anyone else tells you? Is it too much effort to interact with people in a normal manner and see whether they are someone you should avoid or not for yourself?
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MG....Can you please explain why you automatically go into "attack" mode to everyone's posts? Why do you feel obligated to "fight" and/or "argue" with absolutely everyone. You post asking for feedback, when you receive it you reply either dismissively, rudely or arrogantly.
Please elaborate. Because I am genuinely confused as to WTH you are talking about, and so far, your username has not been mentioned in my "Ones To Avoid" list from others on PM....
Mego, this will be my last post on a thread of yours. I debated not bothering at all, but I needed to say 'no, this is not ok'.
People have posted clear feedback to you. It isn't their job to explain it or keep repeating themselves or prove anything to you when you seem not to want to listen. That's your choice and I will leave you to it.
But it isn't ok with me to read people being belittled or abused again and again here on HS when so many of us come here hurting. You are angry but you are being nasty to people who are not responsible for your situation. Hence why I will detach from your future posts.
In particular, your responses to Nas and the PMs you say you've had? They lack grace, mego. Nas has a vanishing husband, money worries and is undergoing gruelling treatment for a serious illness that depletes her energy every day. I would humbly suggest that you have many blessings currently that she does not. And yet instead of recognising that she has used some of her limited energy to try to support you, you respond aggressively and imply publicly that other people are saying unpleasant things about her. Where is your compassion?
This is BS behaviour from an adult, truly crappy and rather similar to the behaviour we see from MLCers and ow. In fact your comment about ow in a fire is not very different from the death threats I received from an ow. It's just not good or constructive. And it is illogical to assume that HS is the only place you act this way right now, hence people trying to support you and your son in navigating your way through this awful time. Certainly none of us need it here on HS and I would ask you to stop, take a breath and reflect on whether you can interact differently if you want to use HS as part of your support system. There are ways to disagree with people while still showing them respect as a fellow human who has suffered a similar trauma. We understand pain and anger, we do, but people here are not your punchbags.
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I'm really saddened to see someone as caring as Nas being treated this way. Her long post was generous and beautifully written. It’s clear she’s not only altruistic but a well educated lady. I got so much from it, thank you Nas. I’m sure many other LBSs did too.
Please let’s not add more pain to our LBS community. We are all suffering, but some have it even worse.
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I have just read this thread from start to finish.
MG, I am truely shocked. You and I are in similar positions right now. I am nearly 2 years in, Divorced and now my Kids and XILS have basically been blackmailed by XW to accept/tolerate Om being at Family Events etc. (she would deny this of Course).
It is really hard for me atm and I have to stop myself from calling her and exploding but I can Control myself for now.
I have done it before, it doesnt help one Little bit. It only makes Things worse and that may be all that she remembers of me. The memories of me being "the most Patient and lovable H and F that a woman could ask for. Love you forever babes, my soulmate"...(posted on Instagram 8 months pre BD, 2 months pre PA) are probably so faded that they dont exist anymore.
Listen to the advice here, nobody is out to get you. Everybody cares.
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When exactly is limbo ? After an awakening ? During replay ? The whole Mlc ?
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MG, I am truely shocked. You and I are in similar positions right now. I am nearly 2 years in, Divorced and now my Kids and XILS have basically been blackmailed by XW to accept/tolerate Om being at Family Events etc. (she would deny this of Course).
It is really hard for me atm and I have to stop myself from calling her and exploding
Good on you. I am close....but, have yet to do anything today.
Found a brand-new "Turkey Trot" t-shirt in S15's suitcase. I knew he ran the Turkey Trot, but did not know the damn thing was sponsored by the school where OW IS THE FREAKING GYM TEACHER.. Yet, there it was....the 7th Annual! Suffice it to say....it's now in the trash.
Also received an envelope in my mailbox, addressed to H, from Ticketmaster. I opened it - two tix for a Goo Goo Dolls concert next August, in NY, near the wh*r^house! I am contemplating throwing those out, too. This residence is no longer his, so why he continues to have his mail sent here, I have no idea.....
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FYI - now that you're no longer married, opening mail addressed by him is a federal crime. Do yourself a favor and just write "not at this address" on the envelope.
I appreciate the fact that this is all a fresh pain. I'm pretty diplomatic. I want to encourage you not to set yourself up to be the "bad guy" vs nice OW in your son's eyes. That would be a bigger loss in all of this for you. It's his shirt - he's 15. Let him make his own choices, and he'll choose you.
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One thought I had MG, you have MS.
I think you would know that diseases such as MS are exacerbated by stress BUT there are many things you can do to turn down the volume of stress in your life. Your health is in your hands, if you choose.
Now I suspect you will retort that the stress is your husband's fault and OW's fault...but actually, the response that you continue to exhibit is nobody's fault but your own.
If you value your health, you may wish to take what has been said to you and think carefully about the quality of life that you want to have.
Throwing away your son's shirt is not right. It belongs to him, not to you.
Opening your husband's mail is also not right. Until mail stopped coming to the house (and it took a long time) I had printed address labels with his address on them and redirected anything to him. You can also notify the post office. However, to this day I still receive some of his mail, usually because the organization that has his old address doesn't seem to know how to change it.
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FYI - now that you're no longer married, opening mail addressed by him is a federal crime.
Actually, we *are* still married. We've settled on all the financials, so now just waiting for Judge to rule, then an official decree or whatever. All legal semantics, but still....plus God couldn't care less what's filed, and when....
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I agree with Ready2 about the shirt
I have no idea why he would have sent them to your address unless maybe he used a credit card that the statement still comes there or is registered with Ticketmaster in some form that way. Ticketmaster usually makes it pretty clear and mail is from them with their logo at the top left. It was addressed to him and you didn't order any tickets right? You are aggravating yourself again.
Even as livid as I was at the ex for what he did to me I still sent something to him in the mail he ordered through Paypal that was sent up with my PO box.
I did let him know in a note to change the address with Paypal and if anything else came in the mail I was keeping it.
IMHO Don't text or call him if you have an address for him. An Option: Send him the tickets in an envelope with certified return receipt. It's expensive but you'd have proof you sent them. I don't think with opened mail you can just write "not at this address" and reseal it with tape and put it in the mail. Or ask at the Post Office.
Include a note that tells him to change the address for his mail.
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I agree about the shirt.
That was your son's and you are gonna hurt him, not OW by throwing it out. I understand the need but..
The tickets? What tickets?! I never got any... ;)
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MG, opening his mail was wrong (though i did it too ;D)... you have recieved enough 2x4s because of the t-shirt already.
Do you have somebody you could take to the Concert? OK, its theft if you look really closely but look at all the Things (hopes, dreams, Futures, plans, securitys, finances, homes.... etc.) MLCers take from us.
Take a friend to the concert and have a night out at his expence, firetruck it, he doesnt Need to know that the tickets are at your house.
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Wellll......the t-$h!te is still in the trash. In all honesty, I tossed it out of anger, but also know that S15 won't even NOTICE that it's missing. I know this kid :)
As for the tix? They're still downstairs....since I have almost a year to decide what to do in the interim, I will happily make him squirm.
Just knowing that I can Yuck his Yum on a whim gives me great satisfaction.....
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Yuck his Yum
I am not sure what language this is or what it could remotely mean? Explain? Slang?
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Well I think it's pretty straightforward, but I'll elaborate.....Yuck his yum would be synonymous with burst his bubble, crush his rainbow, etc.
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Yes indeed Mego, now that you have clarified , it makes perfect sense ...most bizarre saying I have ever heard. Regardless, it would seem then it is fair to say the the goal of your actions is for redemption. To passive-aggressively poke, dig at, hit below the belt verbal slaps, trite comments etc , is to apply some sort of punishment for all the pain his MLC has caused you. I am not sure how you relate to people like this in the real world , but my emotional radar tells me to stay away from them. I suspect your husband is now convinced that leaving you was the smartest thing he ever did ... you keep handing him proof. Now , before you twist it all around and say " who cares this, who cares that, not standin, never said this, never said that etc " and apply some childish sarcasm to your response ...think about this . You have ( and continue to) sabatoge your stand or of ever having a return story to tell . You blindly are jeoparadizing the emotional health and wellbeing of your son . I know ..you will deny deny deny. So your thread title is very apt... " What Now?" . Good question. I believe "standing" may have a bleak ending as who is drawn back to or closer to this type of behavior? . I do NOT see anger ...something much darker and manipulative is at play here . I suggest you listen more and sarcastically "shoo" people away less ...but I do not believe you have the ability to do that . That is very sad as everyone has turned themselves inside out on the thread , all in effort to help you ( ahhh... right. You did not ask for "help" ) . I have zero faith you can change your thinking or approach . So now what ??
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And here I thought that "moderators" were expected to remain neutral....or at the very least, not to PILE ON along with the rest of the angry mob....silly me!
I guess I'm just that dark, and manipulative.......MUHAHAHAHA!
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Time to start a new thread. Thanks
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I've no idea how to do that, can I just delete??
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,,,before you twist it all around and say " who cares this, who cares that, not standin, never said this, never said that etc " and apply some childish sarcasm to your response ...
Barbiedoll,,, I do believe you are prophetic! That aside, I think you and the rest of us are wasting our time trying to get through to someone who just isn't interested. And not one apology either,,, not one. Says all I need to know.
Personally, I believe Mego loves drama. Her posts clearly reflect that, and the drama she creates by shocking us into commenting is far more appealing to her than any useful advice she could benefit from. Give it up. Don't feed the monster. Last time I post on this or any of Mego's other threads.
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There is an icon on the right hand side that says NEW Topic. Click on that and if you wish to continue this subject create a new topic with a explanation of the subject and either the icon for "Your Story" or "Discussion".
A moderator will lock this present topic for you.
The forum allows a thread to continue for 150 responses and then it must be locked.
If you don't want to continue this discussion, let me know and I will just lock the topic.
It's the same way as you started your other 8 threads.
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yeah....no continuation, please, thanx
Too much "piling on" going on....everyone adopting the proverbial "mob mentality".....and it's pretty frightening!
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I am sorry you feel that way.
I have been on HS since it started in 2010 and it has and is always a place that has helped many many people get through one of the most difficult situations that any of us have had to face.
There is no "mob mentality" as you have mentioned, rather there are people who truly care about one another, trying to get them to a better place.