Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: arp1 on June 20, 2011, 03:07:03 AM
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I was pondering on this question the other day.
When the BD occurs we are shell shocked; we never foresaw this mess, our partner's unhappiness, the soul-searching it causes, etc. Have we been blind to what's been happening or have we unconsciously pushed aside the problems as irrelevant or minor? Almost everything I've read on here seems to show that the LBS is genuinely surprised, bamboozled, confused about what has happened to their relationship. Nobody is perfect but are we the ones who weren't paying attention to our partners, not noticing the signals or warning signs?
In my case, so much had happened over a period of 4-5 years it's been hard to see anything clearly: multiple bereavements on both sides of the family, kids starting and adapting to high school, work pressures (both of us), etc. It just feels like life in general got in the way of my W & I's relationship to the point where we didn't know each other or what 'us' meant anymore. When I try to think back, it's just impossible for me to see the cracks appearing. My W had had a smaller meltdown about 8 years ago, which we came through, though I'm not sure how or why. I knew she had issues then, but I thought she'd put them behind her and was relatively happy until this terrible 4-5 year cycle of grief and upheaval started. That seems to have brought things to a head, prompted to the EA, etc.
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Dear arp1
I agree with you entirely. I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010 & yes I think complacency, 'making do' & being married for 28 years contributed - but nothing can EVER be an excuse for cheating on your spouse & all the lies, betrayal & deceit that goes with it.
My H literally disappeared to another town to live with this woman after knowing her for less than 3 months. He refused to tell anyone where he was to 'protect' her??? My son & I were just in the way - again our Son was not to blame for anything. You are not to blame either if there is another man! Just like me your W made vows 'for better or worse' not 'for better' & if it gets worse then I'm off! My H NEVER communicated with me at all about anything so how was I to know he was SO unhappy he would seek solace in the arms of a cheating sl*t who sleeps with married men & was married herself! Charming woman of high moral virtue! He should have talked to ME.
So are we LBS's to blame for the breakdown of our marriages? Only we know what we we closed our eyes to, ignored, etc I take full responsibility for whatever I did or didn't do, but I have been told that everything including his affair is my fault? How can that possibly be true for me or anyone else. These MLCs see they are unhappy & blame the nearest person - us! This has certainly been my H's inspiration for believing he is completely justified in living with OW & her family & to hell with the dreadful fall-out for me, our Son & others too. H is 'happy' that's all that matters in his head. Your W will be just the same! It's as though they cannot see the anguish & pain.
Take care of yourself.
Love & hugs
Fox. Xxx
I
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I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010...
So have I. And I discovered that I am the person I thought I was, that I like myself, etc. What was my W's reaction when I told her this? "I never asked you to do that...I never said you weren't a good person, etc."
My H NEVER communicated with me at all about anything so how was I to know he was SO unhappy .... He should have talked to ME.
This has been my point to my W. I know she has had issues with her arranging ALL things for us to do, organising things with the kids, etc (not true btw, but her perception is that it's always her). And I can see that with everything that has gone wrong in the past 4-5 years, particularly for her, that that may be a burden, but why didn't she say something? Why bottle it all up, become resentful and bitter, then lash out and drop the bomb? What's ironic is that she is the one who loves to talk and explore things. Why didn't she just say that she needed to talk about some things?
So are we LBS's to blame for the breakdown of our marriages? Only we know what we we closed our eyes to, ignored, etc. I take full responsibility for whatever I did or didn't do, but I have been told that everything including his affair is my fault? How can that possibly be true for me or anyone else? These MLCs see they are unhappy & blame the nearest person - us!
Totally agree with you Foxberry. I've said to my W that I take responsibility for things I've said/not said or done/not done - I made a list of things I needed to apologise for or explain how I was feeling at the time. Did I ignore or close my eyes to things? To what? I don't know what I was supposed to have seen! With the bereavements, she grieved in private, away from me and sought solace from the EA with the OM and talked to other people, not to me - I couldn't help, I wouldn't understand, etc.
Thanks. I helps to know I'm not alone in feeling this way.
x
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Arp, Heart Blessing has written about this and apparently what you saw 7-8 years ago was a mini crisis that she pulled through before being resolved.
So she has cycled back to this now to finish resolving the crisis now.
This is not unusual for MLC and it all works in cycles.
I just read something yesterday by RCR where she describes it like a slinky and the journey is on the path of the wire. but you go round and round in a circle but only move forward the width of the wire,
Maybe someone else can find you some links on this, sorry I don't have time to look right now.
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Well said Foxberry. My H never ever said a word about being unhappy with anything. I did see he was kind of depressed the last 3 years from financial difficulties and I tried to get him to get help but he wouldn't. The one time he did open up last fall he said he felt numb, dead inside and that he blamed himself for our finanicial problems that we had 2-3 years ago. I always told him it was the economy and not his fault. When I got the BD in February stating he was done with us and wasn't coming back, he was already living with OW and had been. I was and still am in total shock. We were married 19 years living together for 24 years. I thought I knew him so well. He works 3 hours away and had a apt. there. He said he was alone. 2 months after BD I hired a PI and found out all his dirty little secrets, his other life with OW. Last week found out he took a large loan against our 401K and he has done nothing but spend money. Sad part is he cut me and our 13 year old S off 5 weeks ago from all money. My H never ever talked about how he was feeling. He just doesn't talk about relationships and he is a conflict avoider big time. He needs praise all the time. I believe long time marriages just get comfortable, busy with jobs, kids and everyday life. I feel like I had a solid marriage and that I shouldn't of had to worry if H was thinking of abandoning us because we were married, we took our vows and I trusted him. No marriage after years are going to be like that new relationship with lust and infatuation and it seems that men always miss and want that. They just don't realize or remember that it wears off in time. I still find it so sad that H would give up his family, me and his S for some trailer trash lady that has lost custody of her 2 kids and probably has STD's. So much for our family memories and traditions. This is sooooo painful.
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Somewhere in the articles it describes that they ( the MLCer) actually go through a few stages before the BD. One I know is denial. They deny and suppress what they are feeling. Usually only in hindsight do we see that they were acting slight different. In my case, after a few family deaths, he began drinking heavier, but I too didn't see it coming. At BD they can no longer hold it in and replay comes out in full force.
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I believe long time marriages just get comfortable, busy with jobs, kids and everyday life. I feel like I had a solid marriage and that I shouldn't of had to worry if H was thinking of abandoning us because we were married, we took our vows and I trusted him. No marriage after years are going to be like that new relationship with lust and infatuation and it seems that men always miss and want that. They just don't realize or remember that it wears off in time.
This is true heartbroken. I tried to get my W to see that our lives just kind of overtook us: job, kids, families, bereavements, everything. Sh*t happens! But no, that didn't cut any ice. I think she does want that initial early relationship lust, fun, infatuation again (that's where the OM comes in) triggered by the bereavements and getting towards 50. Andrew G Marshall's book "ILYBINILWY..." identifies 6 stages of a relationship moving from limerence to 'loving attachment' (can't remember all 6 now), so yes, that initial phase only last about 3 years maximum. I've been unable to get her to see anything rationally or logically, so like everyone else here, I'm stuck with a selfish spouse who wants it all NOW. :'(
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Although we are all shocked at bomb drop, I think that many of us had some inklings into issues that we dismiss as "normal relationship stuff". For most of us, life did get in the way, as does the complacency that comes along with long-term marriages. We know that we intend to be with our partner through "thick and thin" and in our minds, that same idea is reciprocated back to us. I think that is one of the most painful aspects.....people giving up and not working towards a positive ending.
Once we get "the speech", we are left with no recourse. The MLC'er is done. Sure, they may go "through the motions" of various attempts to "try", but those are little more than superficial acts to give the appearance of working through things. They were done long before they tell us. No amount of pretzeling on our part is going to make any difference.....neither does begging, pleading, or crying. It irritates them and solidifies in their minds that getting away from us is the right decision.
So, where does that leave us? It leaves us "out of the equation" during MLC. Nothing we do is going to change their path. They need to walk through this journey alone. We can't help them. Trying to help them puts us in the way and likely lengthens the trip.
All we can do is stand back. Let them make the decisions they need to make, reap the consequences, and hope that in the end, they come through this better, more centered individuals with their good qualities realigned. There are no guarantees in any of this. That is the reality.
For some, the marriage/relationship will start over again. It will be a different relationship one in which all cards must be on the table. It will be two people who know that love is an action and not a feeling. We choose to love people, in spite of the decisions they make. They can choose to love us, in spite of what infatuations my lie on the other side of the fence.....for the grass is not always greener on the other side, it just takes longer for the washable markers to wear off.
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I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010...
Totally agree with you Foxberry. I've said to my W that I take responsibility for things I've said/not said or done/not done - I made a list of things I needed to apologise for or explain how I was feeling at the time. Did I ignore or close my eyes to things? To what? I don't know what I was supposed to have seen! With the bereavements, she grieved in private, away from me and sought solace from the EA with the OM and talked to other people, not to me - I couldn't help, I wouldn't understand, etc.
OMG arp1 - you won't believe this but my H insisted I MAKE A LIST of things that were wrong about me and what was needed to sort the marriage out....unbelievable! When I asked him if he was going to write things down - he said no - he didn't need to..... I felt the whole thing was my fault and only I could put it right....at Easter when he came back for his mini "reconciliation" with me - I feel now that it was more about H making himself feel better about why he'd left in the first place, as his conscience couldn't cope with the guilt....all the questions I had - a sort of grief for what I had lost and needed answers to - was just too much for him and actually justified his reason for leaving again!!! I should have thought how cowardly he'd been for leaving me alone for 6 months with no word and living with another MARRIED woman - rather than blaming myself - but I did day in day out - Incredible... It has only been over the past couple of days whilst with my Son and I've heard the way that he behaved with our Son when I wasn't around - that makes me see the problem IS HIM - as he treated our son in the same condescending way as he treated me.....
My heart goes out to you - I know your pain.....the only thing for me is that I never bump into or see my H as he's living with his "new pretend family" 300 miles away, so that is a blessing in a way. Nobody should be made to feel so bad about themselves that they have to write down what's wrong about them, or what it is perceived they have done.... there is a name for this - it's called Mental Cruelty! If it takes two to make a marriage, it takes two to break it up - not one person...we have to believe this!
Love and hugs
Fox xxx
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arp1 ~ Wow, I did not think that the lust and infatuation stage last that long. I thought it was a year or less. That is depressing.
Foxberry-that is cruel what your H did. I can't imagine being asked to make a list of all the things wrong with me. I know what I need to change in myself. I knew before BD but I had a hard time changing because my H never changed the things about him that I needed different. Like I said, he would never talk about our relationship. If we did get into an argument, he would always, and my mean always turn it around so we were feeling sorry for him. It was so frustrating. My Therapist said he turned himself into the "Victim" and because he always did that, my or our issues never got resolved over the years. So over time I became to resent him. I just know that my life was about him and our son and I did everything I could to make him happy. Everything was always about him. With H, everything was always about work. That came first and it always will. It doesn't matter who he is with.
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I actually had this discussion with my MLC wife yesterday. She gave me a whole list of items, and more recently added things that I've done after bomb drop. She said I pushed her buttons, and made her go for divorce.
Either way, I apologized to her. But it is too little too late. I dont understand it. Why not try to make things work, I dont. I really dont.
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Hobo,
You WON'T be able to understand. Neither can I. It just is.
Regarding "How come we don't see it coming" - there are so many answers to that....the MLCer wears a mask and hides their feelings to everyone. The LBS is in denial (I was). So much happens beneath the surface - prior to Bomb Drop.
Regarding the infidelity - most (not all) MLCers had never been unfaithful - so the LBS (at least ME) didn't suspect a thing. Would never, in a million years, have believed it.
And, I guess the last comment - What if we DID see it coming? What then? You CAN'T stop it. You CAN'T control it......it is someone else's crisis. Once they head for the tunnel - it must be played out to completion. No getting around it.
They say ignorance is bliss. I guess it is or was??? Had I known the firestorm that was coming 2 years ago (or more???) I may have done some things differently - but the result would have been the same.
Limitless
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Before my BD we were just "dealing" with his overwhelming job. I was there, waiting for him to be done with the project that was sucking the life out of him. I told him I was sorry what he was going through, but in the end, someone came along that didn't know or understand what was going on. So he chose to hang out with him instead of me. Likely it was to avoid reality, but I don't really know. My h had an EA with a young man, his feelings for this young man were very strong. I have a poem on my string.
I have no idea how this can happen I think that is what is most painful.
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heartbroken,
I don't think that lust and infatuation necessarily lasts 3 years (it CAN last up to that long) My understanding is that the hormones related to initial lust (Dopamine) last 3-6 months, whereas oxytocin (bonding love hormones) levels remain elevated for up to a year. However as RCR has stated, MLC affairs are not just lust - they are emotionally bonded affairs which is why the average "normal" affair lasts 6 months but with MLC it is more like two years. Of course these are all just averages...
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That is shocking Foxberry. At least I did my list of my own volition! You are right, it is mental cruelty: being made to feel that you are inadequate like that.
My W obviously feels that she did nothing wrong, has done all she could and that it was all my fault. She's thrown stuff at me from absolutely nowhere, e.g. I don't have a song that reminds me of her, she's deluded herself that we were in the same relationship. It all just made me feel so bad, so useless, so unloved. I think a lot of this stemmed from her stage of limerence with the OM.
I too knew/know what I needed to change about me or needed work. Everyone has faults, character flaws, etc, except the MLCer - they are these wonderful people who are just misunderstood >:(
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I think if we all really look at our R's before BD...we should see some things that were eye openers..
but we chose to ignore...My h had been working in NY for a total of 4 months...stressed out to the bone
admitted deep depression while there.....but when he came home for my 40th bday party for 3 days.
He confessed his undying love to everyone...couldnt get enough of me..told everyone how much he loved me
and that we had made it through the worst of times...( he was acting strange ) then returned to NY and 10 days
later fell head over heals in love with Ow#2.
It makes no sense to the sane ones...but I can reflect back and see he was dealing with MLC 3 years ago.
and was going through a mini crisis in 05-06.
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Most of us have an awareness of our own issues, as well as our spouses issues. In normal circumstances, these issues can be navigated. What we don't see coming is these issues reaching crisis proportion.....and the behavior that follows.
It's like my counselor told me not too long after bomb drop when I kept asking him how this could be happening. There were two things he said that stuck.
"You can't use logic in an emotional arguement. Don't engage"
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"What part of the word crisis do you not understand?"
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"What part of the word crisis do you not understand?"
So true! I might have to post that on my office wall as a reminder. Thanks DGU!
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The subject of this thread caught my attention. I would like to see what would be the answer to this question but it seems that it all comes down to examining what the MLCers tells us. Isn't it true that when we marry that there are things that arises (aside from being cheated on)? I would eventually gain weight, my hairline would start to recede, more gray hair shows up, and due to having kids the romantic vacations turns into Family vacations because of the budget? Maybe to rich families this "excuse" can't be used so it would be something else. Now as far as I remembered when I married my ex-wife 12 years ago my height was 5 foot 5 inches.(so much for being "Tall","dark", and "Handsome"). At BD one of the things that was brought up was my Height, I wasn't tall enough for her. So for me, despite her denial of having a third party involved I knew and felt that she already had someone else. Turns out the OM is 5 foot 11 inches tall.
What I am trying to say regarding the question how come we didn't see it coming... because they loved us for who we were until someone else came into the picture. We also had a list of what we were willing to accept and put up with when we married them but because we love them we accepted it or made some compromise in order to make this relationship going. If it were us that fell into this temptation, then we could be giving our spouse this list of complaints why we are leaving them.
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ece711
"because they loved us for who we were until someone else came into the picture."
Keep in mind that this is a symptom and not a cause. My ex-wife's love for me is buried not because she met someone else, but because she is in MLC.
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I agree DGU,
like I posted earlier.....my h professed his love for me to the top of the roof tops..then 10 days
later was in Love with Ow#2.
You cant be that IN love with your spouse and then it all go away because of OP...it doesnt work that way.
The Ow/OM is nothing but a symptom and addiction...No real love anywhere in there...
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I was only sticking to the subject of the thread "How come we don't see it coming?". DGU, and TS, I know it's a symptom... saying this though is an answer to a question that starts with a "What" not "How".
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I agree with Synicca.
My H graduated in May 2009. During a big party I had arranged for him, he made a speech, thanking me for my love and support and how he could not have done any of it without me. By this time he had already joined his running club which OW had introduced him to.
Looking back now, I remember him spending more and more time on a Sunday away from his family. After he had finished running, he would go out driving to all kinds of different places. I used to think it strange that he would want to visit these places, and sit in coffee bars etc on his own, which is what he led me to believe.
Then he began criticising the way I looked. He upset me a couple of times with comments such as how I had 'let myself go' and that I should 'try to look more feminine'. Even during the darkest days of MLC, I have always tried to look my best, and his remarks were deeply upsetting and so out of character. Eventually it was the late night text messages he received and him telling me I was nosey, and then staying downstairs when I went to bed.
Even if I had noticed these tell tale signs in the beginning though, it wouldn't have made any difference at all.
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What I am trying to say regarding the question how come we didn't see it coming... because they loved us for who we were until someone else came into the picture.
ece711, I think this is partly true, in so far as the OM/OW that comes along magnifies the MLCers perceptions of our deficiencies, faults or failings. Suddenly, we aren't accepted for who we are: they see this other person having the qualities they wished we had or thought we had. My W has said to me that I'm not the person she thought I was, but when we married she didn't care about her Uni friends reservations. The OM (an ex-bf) 'gets her', when she met him it was like going back to when they went out together 30 years ago, he's optimistic and I'm not, etc, etc.
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arp - that is the MLC rewrite, but tbh, at least in my sitch, my H stopped seeing me for "who I was" some time before he even met OW. He was withdrawing and distancing himself for the R gradually over the year before BD. He was also questioning everything about his life, alot (jobs, relationships with family and me, what he wanted, what he didnt want, who he was, whether he believed in taking drugs - yes, at 35 years old he started questioning if drugs were maybe a good thing ???) I was vaguely aware of a distance between us, but I thought (with having a newborn) that it was sleeplessness, stress, less sex etc - all the normal parts of having very young kids. I believed it was a phase and I also knew that I was frequently tired, stressed and was constantly in nurturing mode to the exclusion of my own needs. I just thought it was the hard part of marriage (the years with preschoolers, babies and no sleep) and that things would even out.
There was no way to see it coming unless you are the sort of person who goes through life and feels that every difficulty they encounter will inevitably have an even worse ending. I made the mistake of being an optimist and probably you did too ( a fact that our MLCer's would not understand the irony of when they claim we are pessimists or negative) One of the problems in my marriage was not that I was a pessimist and H was an optimist. It was that H was an idealist and I am more of a realist. Maybe that is why I may be less prone to getting caught up in the unreal "fantasy" of MLC and an affair...
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Looking back, I knew he was depressed and unhappy. I knew he was withdrawing from me but thought it was just the depression. I think he was looking for some excitement, something or someone to take away his depression, although we all know he is just covering up his symptoms. OW came along and gave him attention. She is a needy person and I'm sure just kept feeding his ego. Then it became a full blown affair and within just 2 months, she moved into his apt. in the town he worked during the week. I have a feeling she was putting the pressure on him big time to leave me. >:( And he did in February. He has shown no remorse at all. He also went right out the following week after BD and bought a new Harley. I didn't find out about her until the end of April. So now he should be completely happy with his life now. :'( He totally abandoned his wife and only son in every way including financially to be with her.
They live 3 hours away so truthfully I have no clue as to how he is, if he is happy ect.. We have NC at all.
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This is a really interesting thread.
I think most of us admit to having hindsight...realizing there were indicators perhaps but they are typically so subtle, so benign...who would see his typhoon blowing in other than a psychic?
I heard grumblings about H's age. Big deal - I'm older. My father died...note: MY father, not his. His parents moved away - that affected both of us. We had a business deal not work out - BOTH our time and money. My point is that 9 out of 10 times, these things that add up to be the catalysts for their MLC's are things that affect the LBS too...and aren't usually so extraordinary in the scheme of life.
If they were so wildly dramatic, the LBS would have an MLC right along with them, right?
It's called not being able to deal with things. That is their problem. Any time I was depressed, angry, whatever, I would talk to my H. He could have talked to me any time but he did not, choosing instead to let this pressure cooker build and never indicating the seriousness of what he was feeling. That may be what he learned from his parents, or because of society or whatever but I'm here to say unequivovally that this was HIS failing, NOT mine and I didn't know because he didn't tell me. I am not psychic. Who doesn't grumble about turning 45? Who doesn't become aware of their own mortality when a loved one passes on?
So maybe the problem was with me. In the beginning after bomb drop, and for a good year beyond, I would occassionally ask what I had done wrong, what could I do differently. He gave me all sorts of stupid criticisms along with a very few things I could legimitately work on...and a very few things we as a couple could too. But at that time I took EVERYTHING he said to heart. Then one day, when he was giving me his little list of my failings, I realized just how full of SH*t he was. And I told him so. And I never asked for another critique again nor will I. I also noticed that in all this time, he has never once asked me what he could improve on...so what does that tell you?
He has admitted to picking on me and looking for reasons. So if he had to make this stuff up in his mind to act like a sh*t, once again, that is his problem. Now as for seeing that coming, no, why would I guess the nicest man I knew turn into someone else when he never, ever gave me the courtesy nor showed the fairness that I deserved in addressing these issues that made him change his entire self?
When you see a small rain shower, you don't anticipate a flash flood. But even if you did, you could not have stopped it from happening.
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This is a really interesting thread.
When you see a small rain shower, you don't anticipate a flash flood. But even if you did, you could not have stopped it from happening.
You may not be able to stop it, but you would be able to prepare in order to survive the destruction that the flash flood will bring.
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Well said Bon Bon! you have hit the nail on the head, these things, these triggers happen to everyone, I know some people have really dreadful issues, but I also know people who have overcome such things, and never thought about leaving.
I cant help but think of my xh as a coward, someone who ran, rather than face, he ran from everything and everyone, with not even looking back.
We were not psychic, and when I did try to help just after BD I was told "Oh you have all the answers"!
Anyway hugs to all
NN
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hear hear Niff-Naff and Bon-Bon - my situation exactly! My normally quiet H anyway just withdrew without me even noticing he was even MORE quiet...unless you live - walking on eggshells with your H - why would you be looking for signs of him leaving - in my case after 28 years???? This is their journey, their sorrow, their dissatisfaction with life/marriage etc., and if they won't talk about it how for goodness sake are we supposed to know what's going on? My H said "if we'd communicated this would never have happened" really!!! what he SHOULD have said was "If I'd spoken up and told you my worries and concerns we could have worked on our marriage, but instead I cheated on you and went off with another cheating, low life woman" ha, ha! Ummm, I don't think I'll EVER hear my H say that! He's perfect and everything wrong in our marriage is 100% my fault..... NOT.....
Love and hugs
Fox xx
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Ecc711 - quoting you here:
"You may not be able to stop it, but you would be able to prepare in order to survive the destruction that the flash flood will bring."
I would agree if you are talking perhaps about financial issues and the like. That isn't something I've had to deal with so I can't be sure. But in terms of preparation, I guess it depends what you mean. If you mean that being aware of their levels of satisfaction and/or depression, that perhaps talking to them and so forth might help, perhaps.
But if you mean preparing yourself for the bomb drop or the change in behavior and personality, maybe some could but not me. If someone had told me my fabulous husband and best friend would turn on me (that's how I see it), I would never in a million years have believed it. It had to happen before my eyes to believe it and even when it did, it took a long time for me to process anything that was happening with a clear mind.
I have always been very sensitive to my husband's moods as I'm sure many people have here. I have always been a cheerleader, including about his age and his "failings" as he terms them. I've always been encouraging, sometimes blindly. He has told me many times that no matter what I said, no matter what my opinion of him, it did not matter because I loved him and was biased. So there is no way I could have talked him out of this MLC. No way.
niff naff...speaking of tough issues, even my own H has said a few times over the last few years that he realizes his problems are nothing compared to what some people deal with...so even he, an MLCer would agree with you.
Fox...just as long as you know the truth...it is NOT your fault. H will see that someday....
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Ecc711 - quoting you here:
"You may not be able to stop it, but you would be able to prepare in order to survive the destruction that the flash flood will bring."
I would agree if you are talking perhaps about financial issues and the like. That isn't something I've had to deal with so I can't be sure. But in terms of preparation, I guess it depends what you mean. If you mean that being aware of their levels of satisfaction and/or depression, that perhaps talking to them and so forth might help, perhaps.
But if you mean preparing yourself for the bomb drop or the change in behavior and personality, maybe some could but not me. If someone had told me my fabulous husband and best friend would turn on me (that's how I see it), I would never in a million years have believed it. It had to happen before my eyes to believe it and even when it did, it took a long time for me to process anything that was happening with a clear mind.
I have always been very sensitive to my husband's moods as I'm sure many people have here. I have always been a cheerleader, including about his age and his "failings" as he terms them. I've always been encouraging, sometimes blindly. He has told me many times that no matter what I said, no matter what my opinion of him, it did not matter because I loved him and was biased.
So there is no way I could have talked him out of this MLC. No way.
I completely agree with BonBon
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I tried to get my H to talk several times. He would never open up. About a month after he left I said to him that it would have been nice if he had said something, if he had let me know he was so unhappy. He replied, I did, you weren't listening. That is such a lie. Trust me, if he had ever said anything about being unhappy I would have been shocked. He never said anything. That is a cop out. Just one more thing to blame on me. He was the one lying and having an affair and living with the trailer trash OW while still with me and I never knew there was a problem. That is disgusting! I just remembered that on Valentines Day, 2 weeks before BD and he never came home again, he gave me a dozen roses. There were 2 cards and the one said I'm sorry. I always wondered what it meant. I can't remember what he said when I asked him but now I know. He knew he was going to be abandoning me and our son any day. He was just trying to get the nerve to do it. :'(
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Jim Conway describes MLC as creeping up under the surface.....undetected. It hits the MLCer like a ton of bricks as well. Not even the MLCer knows what is happening.....they just know how they feel.....and it's not good.
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DontGiveUp - I totally believe that. Thinking back, my H said he never felt good. He looked depressed all the time and he always had this dead look in his eyes. I used to ask him, where is _ _ _ _? I want the old _ _ _ _ back! It's like his body was here but mentally he was not. It was strange. He wasn't fun to be around and just looked unhappy and tired all the time.
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Heartbroken wrote:
"That is a cop out."
The whole MLC is. That is of course my own opinion and probably not shared by many. I'm not saying MLC isn't real (I believe it is) or even contrived (I believe it isn't) but I nonetheless believe it to be a copout. All of it. I believe it strongly enough that I've said it to my H.
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My H said, he had to fix his head..... :-\ I asked him if he saw my H please send him back to me.... He sobbed on the phone back in October and said in a txt a short time later that "if he was to have the chance of finding the love of the person I knew he had to spend time on his own. He did want us to work but he had to fix his head"..... I know now that even as he wrote that to me, he was going to spend the time with OW.....so confusing, so upsetting and so tragic.
Love and hugs
Fox xxx
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BonBon
Based on the definition of copout, I can see that. I just don't believe MLC is intentional or avoidable. As Jim Conway wrote, no one would ask to go through MLC.
copout - A person who fails to fulfill a commitment or responsibility.
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I dont think we can see it coming...we may see our spouses depressed, angry, lazy, tired all the time...bitc*ing
about this or that, but that sometimes can all be a part of every day life....
when I look back my H was exhausted all the time, fell asleep on the couch for hours after work. complained
about "getting Fat" and how he needed to "get healthier" He would turn me down for Sex.
His excuse, ( seriously ) too tired, or I dont want to fall asleep, or Im watching this. He said after BD that
I never wanted to have sex with him. :o :o
Back in June 2010 he cant remember things we did together. He swears I didnt go to the river boating, or
went to our friends with him. BD wasnt until Sept 10..so I think he was hitting the fog in June. :(
He had first PA in July of 10. so makes sense to me. NOW! >:( >:(
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I think the issues and the problems start way before bomb drop. You can trace the issues, but when and how bd is going to hit is the same as trying to figure out what stage they are in during MLC.
I think it is easy to look back and see the events leading to BD, but just like trying to look and figure out the precise stage our MLCer is in, it is better to just detach, let them complete their journey, and then move forward as they complete the transition.
I don't even try and guess where my w is in the process. Yes, I have thought about how I could have avoided BD, but listening to my w and the things she says about me, I realize I could have the kindness of Gandhi and the looks of Brad Pit and she would have still gone through this process.
We may in the future have predictors of MLC, but never really be able to predict all the cases and determine who is going to have a crisis in the future.
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I could have the kindness of Gandhi and the looks of Brad Pit
Ready..you already have these qualities as well as the love for people of Mother Teresa
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I made the mistake of being an optimist and probably you did too ( a fact that our MLCer's would not understand the irony of when they claim we are pessimists or negative) One of the problems in my marriage was not that I was a pessimist and H was an optimist. It was that H was an idealist and I am more of a realist. Maybe that is why I may be less prone to getting caught up in the unreal "fantasy" of MLC and an affair...
This definitely strikes a chord SandD: very true. One of the (many) criticisms my W has leveled at me is that I don't have the right outlook on life. Like you I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist; I'm pragmatic, I deal with things head-on and try to work through it. My W says she's 'glass-half-full-and-always-filling', IOW, she's and idealist and eternal optimist, so when things go wrong she can't handle it.
As BonBon said above very eloquently, there are things that inevitably come along in a marriage and in our lives generally that we have to deal with - getting older, parents dying, etc - and equally, there are situations that arise that you can't foresee or didn't plan on happening. Again, you have to handle them. My W seems to be utterly blind to this logic and seems to think that her life should always be hearts and flowers, that everyone should make her life wonderful for her. Now admittedly her middle sister had had to deal with her husband dying at 54 so she had a somewhat jaundiced view of life expectancy, but she was correct when she said to my W (who took offence to this), that her parents were 86 and 89 when they died, how long did she expect them to live? :-\
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I could have the kindness of Gandhi and the looks of Brad Pit
Ready..you already have these qualities as well as the love for people of Mother Teresa
Or the kindness of Brad Pitt and the looks of Gandhi What a combo that would make.
L
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I think this thread is so enlightening. I'm learning from everyone.
I was surprised at the optimist/pessimist/realist/idealist stuff. I would say that my husband is a pessimist and a realist at the same time. I would say I am (or...was)
an optimist and an idealist.
With my idealism, it's no surprise that I was hit so hard when he blindsided me with this MLC and yet, when it comes to most other things, I find myself being the realist. It's his idealistic fantasies of getting rich, being attractive forever, that seem to be so problematic for him whereas I'm in the who cares so long as we have each other, our health and what we need camp.
I agree with Ready....Pitt, Ghandi and even Bill Gates' money would not matter. An MLCer would find Pitt too good looking, Ghandi too nice and Gates too rich.
As I once said to my husband, "your whole problem is that you want what you don't have and don't want what you do have". He agreed. Ugh.
I just wanted to clarify that when I said the MLC is a cop out, I in no way meant it was a choice nor an intent. Not at all. I simply meant it is a way to avoid one's true self, true issues...and that they cop out on their life as it is.
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My W seems to be utterly blind to this logic and seems to think that her life should always be hearts and flowers, that everyone should make her life wonderful for her.
There was a discussion elsewhere about the idea that MLCers want to be "happy" all the time (sorry if I am misquoting you ready!), what they don't understand is the idealism in that sentiment. Contentment is so much more fulfilling because it allows us to live real lives (where people do die and we are sad, people argue and we are mad, people make mistakes and we react, people do kind things and we smile), understanding a sort of complexity about life. The idea that you can be happy and live in a state of bliss all the time is building an emotional utopia (by definition unachievable). That is why the fantasy life with OW, the freedom, the manic pursuit of excitement does not, in the end, work. Because it is not real. The happiness is fleeting like most feelings. The lust if fleeting. ANd the relationship is based on such a superficial knowledge of each other that there is nothing else to build it on when those things slowly die. Then they are left with each other; two messed up human beings, who have left a path of destruction behind them that gets harder and harder to escape because the fantasy escape has turned back into real life. The other person is not the saint, or the goddess, that the MLCer imagined - and rescuing them turns into a burden because their relationship was never based on being best friends with mutual respect and support, it was based on an emotional buzz. Well, imo anyway!
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BonBon,
I totally agree.....my H has just been sent the Financial Agreement for me by my wonderful S....can't carry on any more hoping and praying that H will continue to pay the bills etc., I need to move on with my life and sell this house that used to be our home and literally move away so that I can start again too. Over the past 9 months my H could take days, weeks or in some cases choose sometimes not to reply at all... all depends on how he "feels" we shall see how his MLC and depression reacts to this settlement...his holiday is coming up with his "pretend family" on Saturday - going to Spain for a week, OK for some isn't it??? He has no money, but hey ho that doesn't matter as OW is being wonderful and paying for my enigmatic, special H (lol) to go with them :( I'm sure the Wicked Witch of the West will have a screaming fit when she realises that I'm not going to melt away quietly and that my H will be paying for me for the rest of his "natural". ::) Finally they will both realise that their affair has got ramifications for everyone! I wonder how long H will remain "special" when he has to give me half his salary!!!!!
He cares less for the house he has left me in with no kitchen or plaster on the walls, he cares less the pain and anguish of really knowing "why" and the pain and heartache of his only Son, who has to stand by and watch his Mother in pain and bewilderment....
So I HAVE to think that he is ill, in MLC, Walter Mitty-land or somewhere over the rainbow - if I thought that he wasn't then my entire marriage would have been a lie....that in itself is too frightening and painful a prospect to even consider......
Fox xxxx
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Bon Bon, my MLCer told me at one point that I was too kind.
Huh????? (and believe me I wasn't all that kind around BD - my claws made an appearance at various points)
Too kind. WTF is that?
Of course, I was also full of blame all the time (but too kind), I had a temper (but too kind), and I didn't let him do what he wanted (but too kind)
Analysis is futile...
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my MLCer told me at one point that I was too kind.
One of the complaints my MLC'er had that has stood out the most was:
"You would give someone your last dollar and smile while they smack you in the face with it."
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it is really mind blowing the things they say....
mine said " Your just to compassionate, so giving and caring, I cant handle that" :o :o :o
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Mine said 'I know you are generous & won't give up on me. I don't deserve that really'
You don't say!!!!! 'generous' makes me sound like a maiden aunt! instead of his wife! Incredible
Nuts!
Love & hugs
Fox. Xxx
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This is an interesting post.
I would say Bon Bon that I am the pessimist with the glass half-empty approach whereas my ex always had the glass half-full outlook. However, as I always said, this meant that things came as a pleasant surprise to me if they were better and an upset to him if they were worse.
I honestly had no idea that this was going to happen. We were probably in a bit of a rut but every relationship goes through that and if only he had really said that he felt we had drifted apart, I'm sure we could have done something about it. However, the flattery of an old flame from the past was more appealing. He truly does seems to think that they can go back to their 'younger selves' when she only had two children instead of four and he didn't have any at all. However, as he says to his daughter "I haven't done anything to you". No, only taken away her second home and pretty much ignored her for the past year when she really needed some support. It'll be interesting to see how it all works out when she stays with the two of them next month for a few weeks. I think the cracks may start to appear a bit.
The last thing he said to me after coming back for a brief week was that "You are a lovely person". (So lovely that he wanted to go off and be with somebody else - permanently apparently.)
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Foxberry,
My husband told me that he needed to figure out things with himself and he could fix it himself. Then he was living with ow in about 4 weeks. Now how can he figure things out with himself if he is with ow? This is beyond me. I totally understand how you feel. Hang in there.
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My H tells me atleast once a week now...: your such a good person, Synicca"
I think he is trying to tell himself he doesnt deserve me....or maybe its a reminder that I am.....who knows.
I just think "alot of good it does me, you choose to be with a b*tch Ow over me...how is that right?"
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Judging by what all of you wrote, it just proves the point that none of this makes sense. THEY don't make sense. I was told I was too loyal. Oh, ok...
See, as Chrysallis is one way, I'm the other...yet we both deal with a spouse in MLC. Further evidence there is no way to predict nor prevent this imho.
Fox, don't even torture yourself with their vacation. Maybe they will get speared in the hind section by a bull...haha...
BTW, H and I will be traversing the pond in October and arriving in London...this is for my 50th birthday and frankly, it was my idea and I said I would go with or without him. He said in reponse..."WHAT?". A year ago, he would have said "fine".
I hope this time, our second big trip during his MLC, he doesn't look across the table from me and say "This is no big deal...I really had no interest in coming here". I wish I could meet some of you but since H will be in tow...well....probably not a great idea.
Sorry for the hijack!
xo
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Bonbon,
You will just have to lose H for a day!!! We HAVE to meet up on London!
You made me laugh out loud about the Bull!!!! Maybe they will haha :-)))
Chrysallis - you know you're lovely! We've met :-)))) sooner or later your H will see the GM for what she is!!! A hanger on, earning nothing & leaching on him. Just like my sitch they have both lost the most precious thing... Their relationship with their children....
Love & hugs
Fox. Xxxx
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I agree with Fox, Bon Bon. You were very kind to me when I first posted and it would be lovely to meet you. Maybe we can find something for H to do for the day!
Thank you Fox - you're lovely too! You're quite right - it's definitely their loss...
C
xx
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This shouldn't be very hard to do...
Bonbon,
You will just have to lose H for a day!!! We HAVE to meet up on London!
After all he is in MLC - they get lost very easily!
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Very funny Mitzpah,
Yes BonBon,
Just tell him you need some space to fix your head and that includes a champagne lunch with your friends at his expense! or Afternoon Tea at Fortnum and Mason or similar ;)
Fox xxx
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Sounds good to me!!
C
xx
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Ok, you're really tempting me!
I would love to meet you all!
Hmmm...maybe I should just say I need space dammit! LOL!
:)
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Absolutely!!! Tell him you know he wants to fix things so just give you his credit card & that will be a good start. :-).
Seriously - we are joking, but we would love to meet up, even for a cool glass of wine.
Lots of love
Fox. XxxX
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Although we are all shocked at bomb drop, I think that many of us had some inklings into issues that we dismiss as "normal relationship stuff". For most of us, life did get in the way, as does the complacency that comes along with long-term marriages. We know that we intend to be with our partner through "thick and thin" and in our minds, that same idea is reciprocated back to us. I think that is one of the most painful aspects.....people giving up and not working towards a positive ending.
Once we get "the speech", we are left with no recourse. The MLC'er is done. Sure, they may go "through the motions" of various attempts to "try", but those are little more than superficial acts to give the appearance of working through things. They were done long before they tell us. No amount of pretzeling on our part is going to make any difference.....neither does begging, pleading, or crying. It irritates them and solidifies in their minds that getting away from us is the right decision.
So, where does that leave us? It leaves us "out of the equation" during MLC. Nothing we do is going to change their path. They need to walk through this journey alone. We can't help them. Trying to help them puts us in the way and likely lengthens the trip.
All we can do is stand back. Let them make the decisions they need to make, reap the consequences, and hope that in the end, they come through this better, more centered individuals with their good qualities realigned. There are no guarantees in any of this. That is the reality.
For some, the marriage/relationship will start over again. It will be a different relationship one in which all cards must be on the table. It will be two people who know that love is an action and not a feeling. We choose to love people, in spite of the decisions they make. They can choose to love us, in spite of what infatuations my lie on the other side of the fence.....for the grass is not always greener on the other side, it just takes longer for the washable markers to wear off.
Still, this is the best and most concise description of the LBS experience I think I've ever seen. I wish I could send it to my wayward H, but of course it would be pointless. I don't remember, have you ever tried to talk to your H about MLC? I have never brought up the term to mine.
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Faith,
Thank you for repeating the quote from Still... it is, as you say, the best description I have ever read... doesn't give me any hope whatsoever, but has stopped me calling my H this morning....if only to hear his voice on his answering machine.... I find the description upsetting and yet it makes me FACE reality..... he had stopped loving me long before BD, for me, the worst bit for me to read was:
We choose to love people, in spite of the decisions they make. They can choose to love us, in spite of what infatuations my lie on the other side of the fence.....for the grass is not always greener on the other side, it just takes longer for the washable markers to wear off.
I wish I'd seen this before my Easter reconciliation :( because I kidded myself that he had finished with OW and could just forget his feelings for her - even though H told me he still had feelings for her.... you can't MAKE someone love you or stay with you..... so very sad and after 29 years of marriage.... I do blame OW too though if she hadn't been a woman of no morals whatsoever and made herself available to a married man - maybe, just maybe he could have talked to me about things? I don't know..... I wish I didn't hate her - but I do... she has given my H a home, paid for clothes, food and now a holiday on Saturday.... doesn't make me look a very attractive alternative does it?
So sad
Fox xxxx
Apologies for hijacking thread arp1 :)
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No apology required Fox ;)
I agree, reading this for the 2nd or 3rd time, that Stills post is a perfect distillation of our collective experience.
This is an interesting post.
I would say Bon Bon that I am the pessimist with the glass half-empty approach whereas my ex always had the glass half-full outlook. However, as I always said, this meant that things came as a pleasant surprise to me if they were better and an upset to him if they were worse.
I honestly had no idea that this was going to happen. We were probably in a bit of a rut but every relationship goes through that and if only he had really said that he felt we had drifted apart, I'm sure we could have done something about it. However, the flattery of an old flame from the past was more appealing. He truly does seems to think that they can go back to their 'younger selves'....
I'm not a pessimist, more of a realist, but I think you are right Chrysalis. This reflects what I see in my sitch exactly. Ex-bf OM comes along and the dream starts that she can go back to her old self with him, etc.
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Fox,
Don't forget...she is a symptom of his MLC, nothing more. Yes, she's making life easy for him but the situation of safe haven she has provided won't chase away his demons.
With apologies again for a short hijack, re: travels to London, I have till October so I will see what I can work out! ;D
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I don't remember, have you ever tried to talk to your H about MLC? I have never brought up the term to mine.
Ah, yes. I did make that mistake early on. I spoke to him about it maybe 2-3 times in 2008, before the speech, when I realized that he was going through such an emotional rollercoaster, was extremely unhappy, and did have any zest for anything. Of course, he vehemently denied that could be the case.
Since that time and as recently as last month, he has brought up my OCD with him being in MLC. I haven't mentioned it in almost 3 years, yet he still feels the need to tell me that he isn't. I think, deep-down, he knows there is something to it, but would never admit it.
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Foxberry,
My husband told me that he needed to figure out things with himself and he could fix it himself. Then he was living with ow in about 4 weeks. Now how can he figure things out with himself if he is with ow? This is beyond me.
I totally understand your situation. My W said she needed her own space, wasn't dependent on me now, had no intention of shacking up with anyone, would buy a place locally and live alone. Fast forward three months from her saying those words and she leaves country, family and friends and moves in with OM. I haven't seen or spoken to her since.
Co-dependency is all they know. MLC is a futile attempt to grow up in the way they failed to do first time around. They fail a second time because they go straight into another co-dependency. If they did live alone and find themselves it would be much healthier but actually getting in touch with the "real them" is too terrifying, hence the inevitable adulterous relationship.
honour
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Faith,
Thank you for repeating the quote from Still... it is, as you say, the best description I have ever read... doesn't give me any hope whatsoever, but has stopped me calling my H this morning....if only to hear his voice on his answering machine.... I find the description upsetting and yet it makes me FACE reality..... he had stopped loving me long before BD, for me, the worst bit for me to read was:
We choose to love people, in spite of the decisions they make. They can choose to love us, in spite of what infatuations my lie on the other side of the fence.....for the grass is not always greener on the other side, it just takes longer for the washable markers to wear off.
I wish I'd seen this before my Easter reconciliation :( because I kidded myself that he had finished with OW and could just forget his feelings for her - even though H told me he still had feelings for her.... you can't MAKE someone love you or stay with you..... so very sad and after 29 years of marriage.... I do blame OW too though if she hadn't been a woman of no morals whatsoever and made herself available to a married man - maybe, just maybe he could have talked to me about things? I don't know..... I wish I didn't hate her - but I do... she has given my H a home, paid for clothes, food and now a holiday on Saturday.... doesn't make me look a very attractive alternative does it?
So sad
Fox xxxx
Apologies for hijacking thread arp1 :)
Fox,
I am going to respond on your thread.
Limitless
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Just to add my bit to the discussion on whether or not to mention MLC or not.
Don't.
I did once, a few months in -- first I suggested that it might be depression, as that was something I knew about; when I found out about MLC in general (still not enough, though) I mentioned it to him as well. Once.
Since then he's thrown that back at me several times, saying "you don't think I'm serious, you still think I'm having a midlife crisis". Never mind that last year, at a low point, he said "maybe I'm just continuing my midlife crisis". By then I had thankfully learned to not say anything, at least about that.
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T&L,
It sure makes me wonder if they don't on some subconscious level realize that it is MLC. Otherwise, why would they keep bringing it up as if we are saying it to them daily. As I said, I haven't mentioned it for years, yet he still makes it sound like I say it daily.
On the other hand, when people contact me to offer support because they have seen my h in public and his announcement that we are no longer together, many have said, "Do you think it is a midlife crisis?"
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Food for thought.
My H coined it a midlife issue long before I realized that was what was going on.
He never denied it. He also was uncomfortable with the term when I said it but he himself has used it quire frequently. MLC's have such an embarrasing stereotype, perhaps that is why so many are reluctant among other things.