Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: strongFaith34 on April 15, 2017, 07:06:17 AM
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I wanted to create a new thread for people who just want some quick advice without it getting buried in their story,
I am 22 months into this, had 2 false returns. H filed for divorce last year with ridiculous requests such as no child support. I hired an attorney. After months of no movement on the divorce, his attorney is sending a proposal by Monday. He began reconnecting with the kids the past 4 months and going back to old habits, we are separated for a year. My question is, his attorney will send a proposal, if it sounds reasonable, what are my options? Can I delay the divorce or should I just agree if we come to a reasonable agreement. What happens if I do nothing with his divorce proposal?
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From my understanding, (others can correct me if I'm wrong) you have the right to make sure that proposal is to your liking. Your attorney will help you with this. If you do nothing with it, the courts can go ahead and proceed with the divorce without you and they could go ahead and grant it.
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I agree with pacasam's answer.
You can't stop them from divorcing you, even if you drag it out.
Accepting this all you can do is protect yourself.
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OM, I would treat it like the "real thing," even if you sense that perhaps he will not follow through. To that end, I would ask for exactly what you want and would need if you do split up.
I'm not trying to scare you, but if you read Watcher's thread, his wife seemed to come completely out of it, and then returned to some spectacularly shocking MLC behavior.
So, number one, protect yourself even in the eventuality of a divorce. Also, another thought, he may want a divorce but still want to reconcile. I have noticed many MLCers act like literally two different people with different goals. Try to treat the divorce and reconnection as two separate events, as bizarre as that may sound.
From what I have observed on the forum, the very clingy ones often will not follow through with the divorce. He may have gotten the ball rolling but may not be the one to complete it, or will drag it out himself.
i am getting a divorce initiated by my MLC-H. Although it is going to be finalized, he has created delays for almost a year and has still not turned in all the required supporting documents. And he is a lawyer.
Big hug to you. I am really glad to hear your husband has taken so many positive steps.
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I really appreciate the feedback. He got the kids a bouquet of roses last weekend for a school event they had. The kids are 6 and 5. I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, anytime he starts to act a bit like his old self, he usually does something to push the divorce. I would of agreed to the divorce a while ago, its just losing that shred of hope for the kids to have a family unit, traveling together, eating together. I can see the dissapointment my daughter feels that we are not a "family." H can't even look my way or even say Hello, its unfortunate the kids will not experience the feeling of having a mom and dad waiting for them at home after school each day, traveling together. Daughters need an example where their father shows their mother love and respect so they know what to look for when searching for a life partner. I know that I will be fine and I have a busy an active lifestyle, it's the loss my kids will suffer that kept me holding on..
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Disclaimer:
This is my reply based on MY situation...
My H went to see a solicitor about divorce December 2015 (after being confessing to OW in July - BD being April 2015).
I did extensive research into MLC, infatuation hormones/brain chemicals etc.
My H was seen as one of those who was self aware (having articulated foggy thoughts and always saying he loved me and OW was nothing)
Its a long saga of delays, mainly me delaying because H asked me (OW has a big hold on him) and although some of those delays have been from him, most have been from me, hoping he was going to 'wake up' or the infatuation chemicals etc meant he had more clarity....
Since November he had made more contact (every 2 weeks -prior I purposely left him to contact me and we went months ) he still out of the blue signed the consent order (financials) February 10th , despite telling me on 14th I was his valentine!!
But this time, when I found out a week later I didn't contact him at all, no emotional messages or texts and so he came to me............very very upset,
I have documented our conversations which shows his flawed thought processes and confusion..
But it made me realise you really cannot trust them or believe what they are saying or what your seeing..
because it changes.
IMO ocean, you need to see real consistent ACTIONS, not words
because they (MLC'ers) cycle and boy do they cycle!!
My H has also been a bit manipulative through his MLC (he wasn't before)
I now realise the weeks after he signed the last papers, it was very elaborate anchor checking....something I didn't think he was ever capable of before this.
I don't know your whole story Ocean, I don't know if there has been an AP.
But if there is/has, be very wary, because I am reading a very good book atm about the chemicals involved in infatuation/chemical addiciton and I totally believe the AP is an addiction.
I use to say they are cocaine with a pulse, (my H was an ex coke addict, so I knew a bit about it) but after reading this book, I now wonder if the AP is more like heroine.
Why does this matter?
because its a slightly different hook..I will explain at some point on my thread.
But whatever the 'drug', when they are in crisis and not wanting to really acknowledge what they have done, then it means they will do whatever is necessary to keep their old life there and that means dipping in and out of their addiction, hence why my H has become manipulative when this is not normally him.
I hope your H is making genuine moves forward and examining and facing what he has done, but I would urge caution and I would separate the legal stuff from what he is doing because you have to try, (and I know its hard) to not make decisions on the person he was and more on the person he is now, because he has a long way to go to be the person he use to be.
Also regarding the divorce and again this is my view of MY situation but I realised by "helping" him delay things I was enabling him to stay stuck.
My H is a huge people pleaser and its my view in MLC 'they' (MLC'ers) become extreme versions of themselves....
So H was trying to placate OW and realised, because I had made every effort to be compassionate and understanding that he thought he could do anything to me and I would always be there.................
AND in my situation my H's OW is a BP and I believe (given her previous history) she is a limerent addict and so by "preventing" her from having H I was feeding her addiction...
So in my case it was better to step aside.
That's not to mean I will speed things up, but I will answer every one of H's solicitors letters within a few days.
And Iwill protect myself and my home because I just cannot believe in anything my H says to me any more.
I believe he loves me BUT he is unreliable and working on skewed emotions
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I am 27 months into this after bd. H has been living with his ow for a year now. In that year we have had 8 months of nc and a face to face last august. He said he wasnt happy,didnt desire her and wanted to work on us. We slept together. After a month of this he vanished again. Completely abandoning us in every way. 6 months of nc again and then the court gets involved and he starts reconnecting with the kids again. After 2 years of threatening divorce he finally did in february. He has been having once a week visitation with d12. He told her last sunday that the ow found his lawyer for him. That tells me that she is pushing for this divorce. He also told her that he promised himself that he would never step foot in our house again on account of what happened between us last august. Am i wrong to think that he stillhas feelings for me? Does it sound like the ow is demanding that he do this because he told her what happened between us?
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MLCers are weak, they allow themselves to be controlled. In your situation, I would say be nice to your H so he starts to see this OW was not worth it, she has to control him to keep him away from you, what more do you have to lose. The fact that he has to stay away from you means his OW is scared and trying to control him, by you going NC she is definitely benefiting, I would say be nice, independent, and self confident around your H.
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I am nice when i answer the phone but he immediately asks for d12 and i give her the phone. Other than that there is nc between us. When there is contact i let him intiate it. We dont even dicuss d12 with each other. His choice.
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I find this script too. My h is reconnecting with the kids also but just in feb. the d went through. I stalled it but h never did a whole lot about it. His lawyer pushed the most and then the judge said it was on his docket too long so he divorced us right on the spot without an agreement. We had to go back a few days later. But get this. On the day we were getting a d h told me of a story of a couple who got remarried after a d. ( maybe ow gave h an ultmatium because they were coming up on their two year mark). But then in the next sentence h said i hope i find my soulmate. Its like they are saying things that get you beleiving they are coming out of it then bam they say one more thing and it twists around eveything they just said. I do think too that by holding back on the d it stalls them. After we were d, h text me that night and asked how i was. I did not respond( sometimes i wish i had now) so by this text i knew he was messed up. A couple days later h said his head was fd up before the d and now its even more fd up. I said well it was your choice and he agreed and said he made his bed and now he has to lay in it. Is ow still in the pic. ? Yep. He gave everything up for what? He has said many times it has nothing to do with ow . Well thats the way it looks and i just dont think he knows how to give her up . Last july he said that they both knew they shouldnt have gotten involved with each other. He said it went too far. He said he didnt want to hurt her but felt bad for hurting me. Thats the sick part. He knew her at that time for one year and a half but knew me since 15. Wtf and he cares more about her then all of our life, history children. Oh. The poor ow who goes after a married man . Ya i can see why someone would feel bad for hurting her. She knew what she was getting into . It makes me sick
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It makes me sick too. A whole life together and he acts like it never happened. He told me in august thatvthey both had regrets. How can those feelings just disappear?
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Does anyone think it was wrong of him to tell a 12 year old girl that?
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Since November he had made more contact (every 2 weeks -prior I purposely left him to contact me and we went months ) he still out of the blue signed the consent order (financials) February 10th , despite telling me on 14th I was his valentine!!
Almost 10 months since separation.. He sent me a kissing love emoji on Valentine's day too ::)
He asked me to attend his family function recently (his father's funeral) and texts about random/weird things that doesn't make any sense at all. Things that he can figure out himself or by just googling :o
Not sure if he's got OW, but he has been using Tinder (possibly sleeping around) and glued to his phone even more these days. I'm trying to go dark and not initiating contact, 9 out of 10 would be him initiating contact. Plus he has been doing nice things he wouldn't be doing when we were together.. But trying not to read too much into it.
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Plus he has been doing nice things he wouldn't be doing when we were together.. But trying not to read too much into it.
Spock
The whole point of my post is to show that you cant read anything into what they do....
Yes there are tiny signs but unless there is a consistent approach of actions NOT just words then all it is, sadly is cycling...
I would love to give you the benefit of my experience to save you some pain, but unfortunately it doesn't work like that and you will have to learn as you go through this process to guard your own heart....mine has taken an enormous beating over the last two years......BUT I believe in the H I knew and I believe that person is in there somewhere and I have seen that person pop up from time to time...
I cannot help my H any more than you can help yours but at this stage all I would say is be a friend when he needs one and don't contact him, unless you have to......
And you seem to be doing all the right things so i wish you luck xx
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Hi 1Trouble,
I(45) too am in the middle of a D with my MLC W(46). I also thought of slowing down the D but also realized that I can't and it will not help anything. I also learned that I can't believe anything she says. She was all nice and sweet, telling me we can do this with out lawyers then she files and I get hit with Temp Orders, have to be in court in 2 weeks. My lawyer was shocked and said this was well planned out. She was trying to keep me off balance and play to my emotional side. We had our court date, I stood strong and she was shocked, off balance and wouldn't answer any of my counter questions and started to break her fake appearance in court. Even her lawyer(woman), who was suppose to be a hard a$$, actually had to tell her to cool off. She even started to pi$$ off her lawyer.
Funny part, she couldn't make a decision on her own until whom ever was on the other side of her nonstop texts that was advising her, told her to do so. She would even try and go back and change her original decision on something.
I believe trying to slow down the D only gives them more justification for it. So, proceed standing strong and protect yourself.
Is anyone on this post dealing with kids that are really starting to melt down because of D talk from MLCer?
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Is anyone on this post dealing with kids that are really starting to melt down because of D talk from MLCer?
Hi LBMIKE my d9 went through a very rough time when ex left and him coming in and out of her life made it worse especially after ex had baby with ow , we came to a point were i had to totally cut of in order for her to re cooperate.......I have noticed how bad she gets when she is in contact with him and how much better she becomes when we r nc .....it was a harsh decision but to me her mental and emotional state is more important right now !!!
My question is ....why do they withhold child support even though there is a court order ?
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My question is ....why do they withhold child support even though there is a court order ?
Control? Even if there is a court order. To push boundaries? Like a sulky teenager who stays out past curfew knowing there are consequences because they know better than the rest of the world. Probably thinks he can get away with it and you will give him chance after chance.
I doubt they even think about it. It might be just a way of trying to hurt you or get back at you. My MLCer pays late or has to be reminded to pay to punish me when ive done something he doesn't like.
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Yes when he used to pay (he only paid 9 times in nearly 4 yrs ) he used to pay late, now even though the magistrate issued a mandate for his arrest and he was also ordered to pay all arrears till oct by another magistrate he went back to not paying and into vanishing mode . My parents say it s cause he could not care less about the kids and a friend says it s defiance .
It s true i did give him alot of chances but now that i put my foot down he still seems to get away with it .... :-\
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Because they want no responsibilities. Nothing applies to them. They are special. They think they carried us all through the marriage so now its our turn. Because they have gotten away with disrespectful behavior to us and think they always can. They believe they have control.
Vanishers want no chains from the past, no reminders of who they once were. It interferes with the new persona they have adopted. Fatherhood and child support don't fit anymore so they shed it like a snake sheds their skin. Just like they do the things they left in the house when they ran away.
J thought his ex was all about money so it was his way of punishing her. He wanted to force her to get a job. Instead I had him extradited back here from several states away. He sat in jail until the hearing. He was assessed a fine of double what he was behind, interest, plus $10k for wilful disobedience. He still thought he could get that written off. Its now several years after his youngest turned 18. He is still paying and will be paying for another 4 years. No sportsman privileges. No driving privileges. Just a weekly garnishment to look forward to. Not so special now. But he never misses a payment. Love begins with respect not paving the way.
Lp
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Thanks Maomina,
I told the W about the melt downs and that I was going to discuss with kids therapist. She was like, great, let me know. No concern about what was happening or what to do about it.
Now, my W's is mad that she is not welcomed at my family holiday gatherings??? She is the one who started an affair, BD me and drove me to the point of leaving, so the kids would have some peace. Really, do they think they can sit down at the table like everything is great???
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Thanks law professor so that's what ex meant when he said that he wanted to go back to zero and when he accused me of wanting to move on and leave him behind ......It was all about him . At first he seemed like a clinger it's now that he completely vanished and that's obviously my fault >:( ...... !!!! Or so he states !!
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Hi all, I have a question and any help would be fantastic.
W moved out a year ago and has an on-off relationship with OM, he seems to cheat on her but she keeps taking him back. At the begining of the year there seemed to be a touch n go that lasted about 4 weeks. During that time we had a day trip out of town as a family W, D15, S14 and myself and it was just like old times we had a great day but she was not seeing OM during that time. She has since gone running back to him.
Coming up D15 has a 5 day dancing competition out of town and the plan was for W to take her. Since then she has mentioned that I might like to come with them and bring S14. I said no.
A week later S14 tells me W has found some cheap flights for the 2 of us to go with them. Again I said no thanks.
Before that trip there are 2 out of town day compititions that D15 is going to. Yesterday W asked if she took D15 to one would I like to do the other. I jumped at the chance at some daddy daughter time and said yes. D15 and I then said we would ask one of the other mothers to help with things like hair and other things that dad is no good at.
At that time W looked at us both and said NO I'll be coming with you.
Now I would love the family time together but I don't feel great about it when W has a boyfriend. Is she cake eating, is she using me, is she anchor checking or should we all go together and show her what she gave up.
So my question, should we all go on the day trip or should I tell W no thanks you don't want me as a husband or friend so why would we go away together. If there was no OM I would be happy to go.
Any thoughts would be great.
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Attaching
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Notme,
My take-dont cut off your nose to spite your face. Move your focus to what's important.
1. You want to spend time with your daughter.
2. Presumably she would like to have her dad there.
Solution: Make daughter happy since she is what's important. The rest is not nearly as important. You can manage to make daughter happy and not be taken advantage by your wife.
From a daughter who loves her daddy very much.
Lp
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Notme, in going through something similar... W wants time here but has run off to OM as well. We have written alot the last 2 days and most of it was not nice. From either of us.... She keeps saying/ writting onlines which could mean anything to do my head in and it's working... I hate her right now. Its S18s Birthday next monday. Hes told her that she is not welcome.
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Hi all,
I'm glad this general topic post was setup. The quick questions and advice is great.
I was wondering how relationships with the family of their MLCer's were like after BD, rewriting of history, etc. My W had filed for D and I went to a Temp Order her lawyer setup after the, Oh, lets do this without the greedy lawyers. Well, she was ready with hers. So, I went, countered all of her BS and now her family has turned their backs on me. Very hurtful, especially being so close for 20+ years.
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LBMike.
I still have a good or very good relationship with Ws family. They are all on my team and have tried to talk to W but she just blocks them all. My MIL is German and FIL is Italian. FIL hasnt spoken to W since BD. He cant believe what shes doing. I thanked MIL yesterday for theyre support but I said theres no point in anybody talking to W like they do. Nobody will really say how they feel because shes fragile and they dont want to hurt her feelings (poor girl). I said its time that somebody (FIL would be nice) to let her know how everybody really feels and give her the full load. Its not going to happen but hey, im out of here. Trying to go NC and see what she will do.
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Hi all,
I'm glad this general topic post was setup. The quick questions and advice is great.
I was wondering how relationships with the family of their MLCer's were like after BD, rewriting of history, etc. My W had filed for D and I went to a Temp Order her lawyer setup after the, Oh, lets do this without the greedy lawyers. Well, she was ready with hers. So, I went, countered all of her BS and now her family has turned their backs on me. Very hurtful, especially being so close for 20+ years.
Depends on the family. H's family is pleasant to me if we need to talk for some reason, but otherwise ignores me. Considering most of his issues have to do with denial and avoidance, it's easy to see his FOO issues. Same as with your W, expend no energy trying to make them like you, IMO. It's sad, but their loss.
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I, too, am ignored by the majority.
After BAD, i deleted them all from fb because i didn't want to see any pictures of him and ow around new year and i didn't want to put them in any positions.
My SIL added me and told me i will always be family. 2 of my stepchildren come and see me and talk to me. SD26 told me i will always be her step mum no matter what.
SMIL talks to me on a regular basis. MLCer has gone mad, said that she's his family and shouldn't talk to me. She's gone mad and had many arguments with him over it, saying that she won't be told what to do. She's told him she loves us both and will support us both but won't get dragged into it by either of us.
MIL is gunning for me and i don't know why, a little while ago she claimed she took an overdose because of our relationship breakdown. At this point, she said missed me. She's well in with ow now though, when she isn't slagging her off behind her back. MIL is toxic and stirs up tension in many relationships so it's not long before she starts interfering.
So, in a nutshell, most of the family are trying to stay out of it and it is very awkward but they do talk to me if i talk to them.
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Thanks lawprofessor and Whyus,
lawprofessor your advice just makes it all so simple. It's about D15 not W.
Thanks
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Has anyone noticed a correlation with mlc and money? It seems to me that as long as they have money they continue . I read somewhere that money gives them power. I beleive this. It seemed as though my h was coming out of the fog a bit , maybe not. But he had been moving closer and such. A divorce was hanging over our heads . An answer was neeeded by lawters , judges , family. H went through with it ,i beleive because of all the pressure.(i think my h thought he could just file for d and it would just sit there on the docket forever) anyhow in the process, i pulled up a 401k that h forgot about. I get half of that . Now that h found out about this ,he seems to have gone back deep in tunnel and took money out of his 401k. He cant affford his living arrangements. My h hates renting, hates using credit cards, taking money out of a 401 k unheard offor him. I beleve my h is the energizer bunny , he keeps going and going . He has done it all . Moving, hotels, woman, drinknig , spending money, divorce , blaming everyone but himself, order of protection ( pretty sure he coerced ow to do it) lies, lies,lies . So my question. Again. Do any of you see this corelation with money and mlc lasting longer?
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I do. My h dont have the expenses he did when he was here being a h and father. He spends his money now on himself, the ow and her kid. When my d12 needs or wants something he is broke.
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Yes. But as long as they have the money to spend , they keep going. It seems that way.
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I don't know..in my case during the D, my exH made clear to me that I am not his responsibility anymore ( I have a full time job and was never depend on him) and he only cares for the welfare of our D. OK, fine!
He pays child support every month without delay + extra 10% (his idea). Besides he volunteered to pay D's school fee, which was included in the child support amount by the way. On the top of that he keeps transferring money to my a/c every time he receive bonus ( 4 times/ year).
By the way, every time he go on holidays with OW they share their expenses ??? I don't know how to explain his actions...only if he is desperately trying to shorten his Reply? ;D
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I think it's more they choose not to have responsibilities and with that comes money for others.
Our MLCers are very selfish.
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Wish that I never read this. When we sell our property W will get a nice big payment!!! Saying that though, I really don't think she will spend too much. She needs a new car and has to furnish her flat... I think she will just keep the rest for the future..... She has also sugested that we put our money in a joint account where neither has access incase we get back together!!! That was months ago though...
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Oh gosh, please don't do that, Whyus.
I would suggest two separate accounts, unless or until you get back together.
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Anyone have a MLCer who says that they are starting to feel emotions again?
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My H avoids me, doesn't talk to me, texts are strictly pick up and drop off times. He has not wished me Happy Birthday the past 2 years and doesn't even say hello. . He filed for divorce months ago.
Today the kids brought home a mother's day balloon, candle, and cards (kids are 6 and under).. i texted him a couple hours later that I really appreciate the thoughtful mother's day gifts. H responded a cold reply saying it is not from him, it's from the kids and pretty much not to text him other than kid related drop off, pick up.
Can anyone explain this behavior?
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I think the money and MLC go hand in hand. My H makes good money but is always broke. We are to split medical expenses for our D. I sent him a bill. He could not cover half of it.. and I am still waiting on the rest. He used to be a good money manager but not now. I don't think it matters what they make they will spend it... to show the new friends and OW how cool they are. It cannot last forever.. debt will catch up with them and hopefully reality.
Ocean: I am so sorry. Cool and distant are the worst..
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My H avoids me, doesn't talk to me, texts are strictly pick up and drop off times. He has not wished me Happy Birthday the past 2 years and doesn't even say hello. . He filed for divorce months ago.
Today the kids brought home a mother's day balloon, candle, and cards (kids are 6 and under).. i texted him a couple hours later that I really appreciate the thoughtful mother's day gifts. H responded a cold reply saying it is not from him, it's from the kids and pretty much not to text him other than kid related drop off, pick up.
Can anyone explain this behavior?
Some MLCers recognize that the LBS is a good parent, even if we were the cause of everything wrong in THEIR lives ::). It's possible the oldest asked to go buy something for you for Mother's day, and he grudgingly complied. Or he might have done it because he logically realized it was the thing to do. But in his mind, you aren't his mother, so it wasn't from him and he wasn't thoughtful. Besides, if you are nice, it throws his whole theory that you are evil out the window. So he can't allow you to be nice to him. ;) That's one interpretation, anyway.
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I agree with offroad mine could not digest the fact that I moved house simply to take the kids to a better school....any good thing i do is poopooed away any bad thing ....woah !!!!
Anyone notice that all the mlcer s family is a bit wacko as well of going through some kind of crisis? Both ex hs siblings are with others half their age and all r s got too serious too quick! Also all think that they r still in their 20's it's as if all the family is stuck!
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I have a question re: the OW.
My husband left me and our two babies for the OW. This was 9 months ago. He lives in our neighborhood so I see her car there every night. We are in the middle of a divorce so I have also seen all of his bank statements which show all of his hotel, flower, nails and dinner charges that he made while he was married to me and since he has left. I have called him out on this and he completely denies it. He went as far as saying the bank statements "are wrong". He says he isn't with anyone. I'm so confused as to why he doesn't just admit it at this point. I have proof. Is he just waiting until the divorce is final or does he not see a real future with her? FYI - she is a 27 year old waitress at the restaurant we owned. He is 43. She is an affair down in every way and I don't care about her at all but I don't want her near my children.
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Maomina,
Yes my X's family are all screwed up people. Nice but very dysfunctional.
Kitty,
Who knows why they lie, I guess its just part of their script. Easier than fessing up.
They don't want to be the bad guy...so they cover it up.
At least you know. He'll probably act like he just met her after the D is final. :-\
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Kitty yes mine did just that he denied and denied ....he even tried to get his mum to babysit our kids so i could get out of the house and find someone new ....maybe then he would have introduced her to the family using the excuse that i had moved on .....they know what they are doing looks bad and so they deny ....or else that s what I think :o
Thank you thunder I have been noticing this for quiet sometime now and also if the world says it s black they say white .....unbelievable a whole family stuck in wonderland even mil !!!!!
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I actually believe that what some people who finally "emerge" from MLC say, that they felt like two different people or like they were watching themselves. (An observation from my friend who had postpartum depression as well btw.)
I remember one time last year, we went to a therapy meeting. My then-H and I were having a conversation and I said perhaps we could continue it in the car on the ride to pick up our son from school. He panicked and told me that this was a bad idea for our son, all the while, clearing out space in the passenger seat for me. I ended up not riding with him, but this struck me as odd. Since reading about the split brain I have wondered a lot about this.
My feeling is that for this reason all communications are best kept to a minimum and directed if possible at the children, not the MLCer. The other day my former H had our son pick up flowers for me because I was sick. I texted a thank you to our son. At this point, I think it is humorous in a way that I need to make sure that he knows that I know that we are "over."
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Does anyone understand or have the psycology reasoning as to why a mlcer tries to make the ow the lbs? I do not get this. And does it make a difference for a return? I guess what i mean is if they think they turn ow into you would they still miss the real you?
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KB,
Maybe I'm not understanding.
The ow can dress like you are try to act like you, but there is only one you.
Dying their hair your color, or pretending to like what you like is not real. The MLCer will eventually see they are not authentic.
I know Ethan's Mom's ow tried to copy her and so did Nah's H's ow, but it is never worked. They were trying so hard to replace the W they sold out who they really were.
Is your X's trash trying to be you?
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I think h is doing it?
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Oh I see. He is trying to make her look like you.
Well that's pretty telling if you ask me. If he didn't want you why would he want her to look or act like you?
I think there is still something in him that misses you so he's attempting to change her.
At least I think that's what it seems like.
He'll figure out eventually she is not you, no matter how hard he tries.
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I've heard that it's possible to get stuck in the tunnel and never emerge. It's been 5 1/2 years since BD, add a year leading up to it and I'm going on 7 years since this nightmare began. H came home for 2 years and it seems like it started all over again. The difference this time is that he says he loves me, he just can't live with me (feels he can't live up to my "standards") so he moved out . Seems he's back to creeper status on various dating websites, drinking, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if this will ever end, if he's "one of those" who stays stuck. It's so hard to know where he's "at".
'
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Yes it is possible unfortunately it could be that he still has foo issues
As for ex h trying to turn ow into you I believe they try to recreate what they had out of guilt it will not work obviously. My ex ow is my total opposite and it's most probably cause he wants nothing to do with me and the kids due to either guilt ir cause there really was nothing between us on his side ! Many tell me that it's impossible for my ex to have mlc due to a failed marriage and addicts :'( . I do remember him regretting all the time he lost with me due to his habit but instead of trying to fix what he did to us he caused more damage and instead left us facing all the consequences ....In all this he's become a true narc!
Ex also wants to believe that ow gave him peace and a new life and he does not want to look back at what he left behind as he did everything in his power to push me away !
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I am trying to figure out whether I was married to a closet narcissist or whether he is going through an mlc and narcisstic traits are coming out due to his crisis. How do you distinguish between the two? I have read that people in mlc abandon their families and that narcissists devalue and discard. There were 2 bd's in my marriage where my husband turned into a completely different person and gave me the silent treatment and said he wanted out. Fast forward five years and now I know he was having an affair during this time with a co worker 16 years younger than him. I just don't know if he has a personality disorder or he's going through a crisis or both? Can anyone shed some light on this?
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Kitty - my thoughts on this are that if someone was a narcissist or a true personality disorder you would know before now. People with personality disorders don't hide those traits because they are who they are - especially narcissists. They think other people are the problem so no need to Mack their behavior. If these behaviors are foreign to your spouse then I think it's a phase or crisis. Doesn't mean they didn't have some narcissistic traits - but many people do that does not mean they have a full-blown personality disorder.
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Thanks RT! Is the silent treatment common in mlc?
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He said he didnt want to hurt her but felt bad for hurting me. Thats the sick part. He knew her at that time for one year and a half but knew me since 15. Wtf and he cares more about her then all of our life, history children. Oh. The poor ow who goes after a married man . Ya i can see why someone would feel bad for hurting her. She knew what she was getting into . It makes me sick
I just read this post and had to comment and get others' opinion.
At BD, my H said that he feels bad for OW. One year and a half post BD he still feels bad for her saying she has problems, she is poor, her cousin died of cancer. He has empathy for everyone but me. When I told him that I have now anxiety, panic attacks, depression, and losing my identity, lost my cousin to cancer, he justifies it by saying "I understand but you are strong", "you don't need me, you are independent", "you have always been this way", "your body always reacts to stress this way", etc. He has absolutely no concern for me because I am strong, but shows concern for others because they are weak? Sounds like a "knight in shining armor" syndrome to me. Is this common? I got the impression MLCs have no empathy for anyone reading through the stories with them leaving their children. Thanks everyone.
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Thanks RT! Is the silent treatment common in mlc?
In my situation, very common. My MLCH gives me the silent treatment or a one-word or one-sentence response with as few words he can use. Even when I wish him happy birthday, no response. When he needs something and I give him the silent treatment, he doesn't like it. I dont contact him often though. I let him do that when he is ready. Sometimes I do it just to check and gauge his emotional state because he is a vanisher.
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We know and recognize that the MLCer is not the person we once knew, how is it that the MLCer can act almost completely normal and like their old selves with kids and work?
I am 2 year in and H went through 1 year of rarely seeing the kids, and monster towards me. In the past 6 months, I notice that he is his old self when interacting with the kids. He is like a Santa dad but now that I think about it, I did all the raising the kids and he would just play with them so really no different than before.
I'm just curious if these MLCers are their old selves with everyone else except the ones who were close to them before BD?
If I asked anyone a year ago about H, they would say they know something is off but if I ask anyone now; they say he is just like the old H. As our divorce deadline gets closer, he has become just like the old H with kids.
With me, still doesn't greet me, always looks down or hides.
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The spouse is always the last they reconnect with. Hang tough OM.
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Ok, I'm not trying to be stage obsessive here but am trying to figure out how my H is progressing. A little history first Grumpiness 11/16 through 12/16. BD was 2/18/17 and he was a total monster at that time. Personality totally unrecognizable projecting and blaming. He pretty much remained that way for a couple of months. Saw him 5/6/17 and he was monstering that day actually in front of a co-worker at our old house...H was having a yard sale and he was actually trying to sell some of my stuff that I hadn't picked up yet. I suspect after I left the co-worker said something to H about his behavior because it was extreme as in he ran out to the end of the driveway and got nasty.....he usually doesn't run anywhere much less get nasty (monster has only brought out nasty). Reason why I think co-worker said something is because the next day was a touch and go and H was almost apologizing for the day before. We did go out to eat this day and his eyes were very shifty like he felt he was an open book and someone was going to attack him.
Next time I saw him was may 27....monster was still there although not exposing himself, only I could see the monster because I know my H. Could also see him evaluating a puzzle piece from approximately age 27/28. He says he remembers having the shifty eyes a few weeks before but doesn't remember what was going through his head at the time but could definitely see my point on my impression of what he was possibly thinking. By this time he's lost too much weight and his normally long cheeks (he has native american indian (cherokee) in his background) are looking hollowed out to the point of looking totally sucked in.
Ok hadn't talked to nor seen H until today..... spoke w/him on phone and as I've said this is the first contact since 5/27. He says on phone today, he feels totally disorganized and that he knows that he needs to work on that. He says he has been having bouts of depression. He complains about boss wanting him to work tomorrow but he's got too much to do and doesn't want to work. Pretty much we're having another touch and go and he's being what I'd call very open about what's going on with him. I told him I'm disorganized also and am trying to work that through. I told him he sent me too much in maintenance and asked him where he'd like me to mail it back to him, he says to keep it and I explained that I didn't want to confuse either of us any more then we already are and don't want him ending up taking me to court for it. I also tell him that I'm keeping a record of it and will send him a copy of that too. But in general he seems very open to what he's going through but he's not admitting any feelings as I can still tell his cramming those back down.
My question is do you all feel he's progressing through the tunnel, possibly in one of the depression phases? if so where?
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Just wanted to agree with Ready.
A narcissist does not just come out of the closet in a MLC. You would know WAY before then.
These people have no conscience or empathy for anyone but themselves.
My 1st H was a narc, but I didn't understand what was wrong for a long time.
I was young and could not understand how he never felt sorry for anyone, not even his kids.
The whole world revolved completely around him.
It may look like narcissism or Bi-Polar, but a MLC is something all together different.
I would say if your spouse was a kind, loving person before this crisis he doesn't have a mental disorder.
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I have a question about monster.
I know how to deal with it-not my circus, not my monkeys and hand them their guilt back at times.
But is there anything you can do to calm things down? Seems to me, every time I try to calm things down, it doesn't work! I say "I'm sorry you feel that way", he replies "no you're not, you don't care about anything any more".
This week he's said I'm only civil when I want something (projection). I've only initiated contact twice since BD (business reasons, S had an accident and I needed to find out MLCers earnings for last year).
I just want to get things on a nicer playing field. I think he is high energy and he's in escape and avoid. Is there anything I can do to calm things down or will it (maybe) calm down in his time???
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My question is do you all feel he's progressing through the tunnel, possibly in one of the depression phases? if so where?
Pascam If your BD was 18 Feb this year then your H is well and truly in replay. The MLC clock starts ticking at BD and not before. If that were the case then my H has been in MLC since 2006 at least...but that was the pre BD denial phase and who knows when that actually started. So BD is the date we "measure" the crisis.
How much of the articles have you read as the whole crisis is rooted in depression - I suspect you mean liminality and if so that is some time away. The average length of time for replay is 3-7 years and remember replay is part of escape and avoid which is the "stage" after denial. Escape and avoid can go on for much longer than replay.
I do not say this to depress you but to help you stop stage watching as such. All MLCers progress through the tunnel but it seems that clinging boomerangs (and your posts suggest that your H may be one) progress faster. RCR is very clear on this - they are not progressing faster they just cycle quicker and move from monster to normal to touch and go to monster etc..... but their progress through the tunnel is not necessarily any quicker than a vanisher or off and on contacter.
Remember too that monster can be charming, nice, friendly and not always angry. It's a form of manipulation and eventually you will begin to see through that.
So sorry Pascam - your H is well and truly in replay and you will be at this game for much longer. Try to take your eyes off what your H is doing and focus on yourself.
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S and D I know he's in replay and I've read the articles and don't want to read them to the point of having them memorized. LOL My question was about how he's progressing or if he's progressing.....meaning if he's improving and actually working on himself. My H is living elsewhere so I don't get to watch and see. I have been doing mirror work despite what people who have no idea what I'm doing think. I do realize it's as if he's trying to relive his 20s right now as he's living with an old friend from his 20s. They are present living in public housing. Unfortunately I know this friend is more on the toxic side then anything else...meaning when his parents died (his parents had mega bucks) he blew it on alcohol. Like I said I'm not trying to be stage obsessive....my mirror work doesn't allow me the time for that.
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What now,
I think each monster is as different as each spouse is. If you know what does not work, maybe the opposite will work?
Calming things down,IMO, has totally to do with our attitude and control of ourselves in the situation. If you are calm, he should start to respond in the same manner.
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Thanks, 1phoenix.
I've tried everything and he just argues with it all! I am calm, treating him as I would one of my kids when they start trying to get their way.
He has started to mirror me though. I told him a few days ago I was bored of his "everything is all your fault" routine. Now he's saying to me ”so I guess everything is my fault" 😂 tempted to tell him none of this is my choosing!
He seems to calm down when I stand up to him and give him a few home truths but it's only temporary.
I will keep trying and hope he starts running out of steam soon. Thanks again
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S and D I know he's in replay and I've read the articles and don't want to read them to the point of having them memorized. LOL My question was about how he's progressing or if he's progressing.....meaning if he's improving and actually working on himself.
Ok - but you won't know that until he is out of replay. Most MLCers are progressing through the tunnel and the majority of them do not have any clue about working on themselves and improving. Most if not all of them think that whatever is happening to them is always somebody else's fault. Usually it has to get worse before it gets better and that is an unknown time line.
Re the articles - you will be surprised at how much you will read them again and again and find something new each time. That is part of your mirror work. I am four years in and in the early stages of reconnection - I still return to them and find fresh thoughts and understanding.
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S&D well like I said right now my own mirror work is keeping me pretty busy. But even while doing my own mirror work it doesn't stop me from thinking about him and hoping and praying for him. I know he's not the monster that he used to be, but the monster is still there. In other words it's not spewing but will spew if given the chance and the few times I have dealt with him I've tried to not let him know that I see the monster on the surface and try not to engage in a way that it would speak up. The last time it spoke up was in the beginning of May since then it's been the surface monster. I'm the only one that knows him well enough to even notice this surface monster. Heck his sister's never even saw the spewing monster because of the good guy persona. He knows there's a monster but he prefers it to be called an alien. LOL
For those wondering what I'm talking about when I say surface monster... it's the little things that are barely noticeable after the spewing monster is gone. Only those of us that know our spouses best would recognize the surface monster. In my H....the pupils are presently (as of the last time I saw him) gone as in he's only got the whites of his eyes and then the color of his eyes. The black in his eyes no longer appear there. I think that may be a sign of how the MLC is affecting him. If he were on drugs the pupils would fill the color of the eyes not the other way around. Then there's how he handles himself as in body movements....head movements and physical reactions in general that only I know well enough to know whether it's normal or not. Notice how most of that is on the surface stuff?
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What Now,
Why do you not tell him that what is going on is not of your choice? If that is your truth, why are you not standing in it?
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S&D thanks for the summary reminder! My clinging boomerang keeps cycling and cycling .. And shes only been charming monster since regular monster was only at BD
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What Now,
Why do you not tell him that what is going on is not of your choice? If that is your truth, why are you not standing in it?
I kicked him out (didn't know what was wrong with him). Because I kicked him out, he sees it as my choice. I've said it was his choice lots of times and his replies just annoy me. When he's in monster mode, he spews massively. I'm a b!Tch, I have severe mental health issues, he list goes on. I guess I stopped saying it because I don't really know how to deal with him.
He is the complete opposite to how he used to be and I think I still see him as the man I fell in love with.
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What Now,
At the risk of the wrath of others, I think they are still the same person, only they are growing in a way that is destructive. They are hurting and do not know how to deal with the pain, themselves or their families.
So in order to achieve their growth, they do what they know from their childhood, run, yell, hide, leave behind, become self absorbed.
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I agree. As much as we think this is not the H we recognize, these are our H's but the teenager version of themselves before marriage and maturing. They are lashing out and treating us like their mothers because they cannot connect to us in an adult relationship type of way. I don't think it's possible to transform into a whole another person but it is possible to regress to earlier behavior.
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Thanks 1phoenix and Ocean. I agree, he is the same person, ive just never seen this side of him.
I will just treat him as I did my step children. Not budge. Be firm but fair. Tough love and let him know how his decisions got him to where he is but know when to stop and pick my battles.
Thank you
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Interesting discussion, a few times during our marriage my MLCH and I discussed the fact that we wished that we had met sooner (met at 31 and 34). On at least two of those occasions though he said that I probably wouldn't have looked at him because he wasn't a very nice person then. I also heard stories of some of the antics he got up to from old friends.
I'm just wondering if the Monstering entitled nightmare of a man that he is being now is actually that not nice younger version of himself??? And, he is right - I would not have looked twice at the person he is now.
Phillyg xxx
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..... Only those of us that know our spouses best would recognize the surface monster. In my H....the pupils are presently (as of the last time I saw him) gone as in he's only got the whites of his eyes and then the color of his eyes. The black in his eyes no longer appear there. I think that may be a sign of how the MLC is affecting him. If he were on drugs the pupils would fill the color of the eyes not the other way around. Then there's how he handles himself as in body movements....head movements and physical reactions in general that only I know well enough to know whether it's normal or not. Notice how most of that is on the surface stuff?
I understand what you mean. For me, at graduation lunch yesterday, it was the gruff way H did not want to see the pictures of the trip S and I took, or the anger when he saw his suit not on a hanger(because I was going to take it to the cleaners after S used it). The way he was constantly looking at his phone. He never did that before, but no one else would notice.
For me, though, it doesn't matter where my H is. In the tunnel, in replay, on the moon. Nothing I do is right or good enough or whatever. Since I can't do anything for him, all I can do is get out of the way. Unless or until he shows up on my doorstep begging my forgiveness for what he has done, where he is anywhere is of no concern to me. I guess what I'm saying is that we can't tell where they really are, other than not willing to be with us, unless there is a major change towards reconnection without replay behavior. Trying to figure anything else out is an exercise in frustration.
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Hello everyone, I was curious how long after BD the LBSs continue to get anxiety and/or panic attacks? I still get panic attacks randomly but they seem to be triggered by stress and the stress does not have to be related to communication with the MLCer (I have a vanisher so we are rarely in contact). I did start having those after BD though. Also, is it common for the MLCer to have empathy for OW/OM and others who have problems, while not having any empathy for the LBS? Thanks.
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Hi, I would think that the anxiety is pretty common with LBS. We have a lot to deal with on various levels. I still get panic attacks (BD 12/16) and am stressed a lot but our finances are no way sorted so a lot of my anxiety relates to that. My MLCH has zero empathy for me but pretends that he has it for the kids - who he hasn't seen for 7 weeks today - but it's not really there. For example my DD had a cast removed at hospital nearly a month ago and he only asked about it last week (to my son - will not speak to me). Also, they are on their school outing today and he doesn't even know where they have gone. My DD was sick a few weeks ago and he didn't even get in contact to see how she was. I know that that is more disinterest than lack of empathy but I doubt he cares about us very much at all now. I'm assuming that he still has it for others as he is trying to tell the world he is a good Dad. Keep strong and take care xxx
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What not, I don't think they are the same person. I think that person is gone.
I believe some part of them never grew. This crisis puts them back to a place where their growth was stunted. They were probably never really whole.
Hopefully one thing this crisis does for them is to allow them to regrow as a person. The core person I still there, but it needs to be a healthier version of themselves.
RCR articles say they shed the skin they were in and have to decide who they really want to be. This takes time. They may put on different skins to see how they fit. Presents them to the world to see how it feels. If one doesn't work they try another and another until it feels comfortable.
I think that's why we get so confused. They seem to change so often we don't recognize them anymore.
They will be changed afterwards. Never to be the person they were, but hopefully a better, healthier. more whole person.
I truly believe some of them change so much it's not possible to reconnect with them. They've changed too much and you are no longer compatible. While others only change certain aspects of their personality and reconcilement is quite possible.
You need to remember, we will change too. If both parties change in the same direct, for lack of a better word, it could end up being a wonderful relationship.
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Hi thunder, your perspective is much appreciated.
I'm not saying I don't buy what you are saying, but is there any chance they can flit between being themselves and completely changing?
It seems the only person he has "changed" with is me. Oh, and his mum. They were close but distant before but they're even closer now. Also, his step-mum. They were close before but, because she speaks her mind to him and doesn't let him disrespect me, he has monstered on her a couple of times. He seems to monster on anybody who stands up to him.
D, who is only 9, keeps calling him out on things. Simple things. For example, he sent her a message the other night saying "nighty night". She asked if he was ok and said "that's not like you at all". He asked for clarification and she just told him he normally says something different. She also told me (in her words) "dad still loves you. He's just a bit confused. He's happy with ow but I think he's just pretending most of the time mum. I think daddy is very unhappy but doesn't know how to put it into words".
So, to my knowledge, he's only REALLY changed with me. Relationship with mum has gotten closer and step-mum more strained. Almost as if they have swapped places.
D has noticed a change in him too. Surely, if they were a different person completely, they would change with everyone and not just the LBS?
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What now, I think they wear different masked for different people. What you see, may not be what others see.
"Well, he seems happy."
Well sure when they put that "happy" mask on their pretty good at convincing others, but they CAN'T fool you.
You know them better than anyone else, and it makes them angry. That's what sometimes bring out the Monster.
I think to answer your question, from all I've read in the beginning they do go back and forth between themselves and completely changing. Their not quite in the thick fog yet. Part of them is still in there.
I'm so sorry your d has to see her dad like this. She sounds pretty smart for her age.
She can see that isn't her dad.
Her explanation about him still loving you but is confused is amazing.
You just wonder if he said things to her or if she is coming up with this in her head. Either way it's pretty mature for 9 year old.
Maybe she senses he is pretending with the ow. Has she met her?
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It seems the only person he has "changed" with is me. Oh, and his mum. They were close but distant before but they're even closer now. Also, his step-mum. They were close before but, because she speaks her mind to him and doesn't let him disrespect me, he has monstered on her a couple of times. He seems to monster on anybody who stands up to him.
So, to my knowledge, he's only REALLY changed with me. Relationship with mum has gotten closer and step-mum more strained. Almost as if they have swapped places.
D has noticed a change in him too. Surely, if they were a different person completely, they would change with everyone and not just the LBS?
I totally understand what you are saying. I see a lot of that too in my H. The only one he has changed with is me. His sister's don't really see what I've seen and I've told the one that. His one sister is suspecting that something is going on but she can't pinpoint it and because of her compulsive lying I can't possibly be telling the truth. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with if she admitted it then she'd have to admit her own issues and change them and she doesn't want to do that, afterall it'd make her a better person. ::) ;D
I think my H is working his way through the replay. He made an interesting sarcastic comment the other day about daughter's getting their way w/the parents because the d's are spoiled mama's girls. But get this he grew up a big time mama's boy and of course both of his parents are gone now.
Will be interesting to see if he remembers today is the first anniversary of my mom's passing. I don't expect him to and if he does I'll be floored!
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Ah Thunder! Light bulb moment. That makes complete sense. That's why he gets angry when I tell him other people might take in his bullsh!te but not to expect me to!
Yes, unfortunately. 5 weeks after BD, he admitted to being with her but denies point blank he was cheating. I told him under no circumstances should he introduce the kids to her unless they had been together for a long while and we should both agree when that should be and tell them together. He agreed and said they were our kids and nothing to do with her.
6 weeks after BD, he takes the kids and they were introduced. I was no happy at all. They were still trying to get over our split and he gave them something else to deal with.
7 weeks after BD, they are trying to blend families (my D doesn't get along with her boys, 3 of them under 6 and S just tries to fight with them so it was unsuccessful. ow just started leaving her kids with her mum and spending the day with MLCer and my kids. A couple of times she just stayed in bed all day bit she NEEDED to be there).
9 weeks after BD, they're engaged.
They had their engagement party on Saturday night and he messaged me randomly. The kids still aren't aware and he thinks I'm not either. I live in a town where good news travels fast but bonkers news travels quicker. I know my relationship moved much slower but I had much more self respect and respect for others than ow has. She's a hot mess too
Pacasam - this adds to the crazy, doesn't it? When you tell people and they say they don't see it.
My D is on the autism spectrum (S is suspected to be too). I compare MLCer to her. She meltsdown (like a tantrum when she's been overwhelmed but she isn't in control of it) with me and only me. I was complaining to a friend who has a lot of experience in childcare. She said "you know, it might be annoying but its actually a massive compliment. Nobody but you gets to see the real D. That means she trusts you implicitly to be who she is in front of you and for you to not judge or be turned away by it." That's what I think MLCers do.
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Pacasam - this adds to the crazy, doesn't it? When you tell people and they say they don't see it.
Yes it is crazy and w/this one sister of his it's BEYOND crazy!!! She's got image problems as in has to be dressed to the nine. Puckered red lips The older barbie doll figure and expression on her face including the practically golf ball sized eyes and she thinks I'm the incompetent one!?! ROTFL She needs to think again!! Note this is the sister of H's that was our landlord that evicted us!!
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Silly question, but where does the looking cra@@y step fit in? Have seen someone at work go from always looking put together to not wearing marching socks!!!!!
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My H was going through some of his old things and his dad's things who passed away a long time ago, for an MLCer who has suppressed negative emotions his entire life, I feel this was one of the triggers of his MLC. What triggered your H's MLC?
I also wonder if this is why MLCers leave most their stuff when they move out and don't want to step into their old houses or if this is why they push the divorce and sale of the house so they have no emotional triggers?
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OM,
Maybe they are selfish, cruel, mean and cowards?
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I have a question about the OW. I know I need to stop obsessing over her as she is an affair down in every way but I continue to struggle with this. I keep reading on here that she is a symptom of his crisis and nothing more but the more I read on here it seems like many of these relationships are still going on and it scares me. Am I right?
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I have a question about the OW. I know I need to stop obsessing over her as she is an affair down in every way but I continue to struggle with this. I keep reading on here that she is a symptom of his crisis and nothing more but the more I read on here it seems like many of these relationships are still going on and it scares me. Am I right?
Kitty... you just hit upon the most talked about subject.
First I'll give you the short version that you can repeat again and again in your head.
My then 20-yr-old son said to me just days after BD, "Mom, he wasn't looking for someone better than you, he was looking for someone worse than himself"
He nailed it. That's what they are looking for and that's what they get.
Would you hook up with a married man? I don't care what he said to you, would you do it? Only pathetic, insecure, selfish girls will hook up with a married man. Period. Discussion over.
So why do they sometimes stay?
Here's my personal story....
My ex-husband (I call him the Leaver) is marrying the girl now that they have been together for five years (the first two while he was married to me).
Well then, that proves it, right? He had to leave the crazy and pathetic Nah, b/c he was in love and the young girl is not that bad, b/c they are still together AND getting married. It's like a fairy tale.
HA!.... That's the fairy tale they want the world to believe, b/c she is pathetic, selfish (and crazy insane jealous of me and maybe the most controlling creature that exists on this earth).... and he is a sad little coward.
It's all smoke and mirrors my friend.
The first year after he left I would beg a good friend of his for information. This friend and the Leaver saw each other every week and I just had to know if the Leaver and his girl were happy and in love. This friend said, "Nah, all men fantasize about young girls, divorce happens." I was heartbroken.
Time passed, I gave up asking.
A year later I ran into this friend and he frantically pulled me into his office and had to get it off his chest.
"EVERYBODY HATES THEM!!!!!" He filled me with stories of how the Leaver stomps around angry all the time and how the girl is a "stupid tw@t that everybody hates... she controls his every move" He had too many stories to write them all here.... but over the top cra cra crazy.
So he was kicked out of his band.
Fired from his high profile job (the girl was involved in that too).
Lost friends, family, respect, integrity, his retirement, all his favorite hobbies (incl. motorcycle, she won't ride)
On and on and on.....
Oh it gets better (well for me, worse for him)
Even though he is an almost vanisher, we had a long conversation on the phone a few months back, these are HIS words....
"I wake up every single fire trucking morning and get physically sick about what has happened. I think about you and what we had every single day. I feel like I'm living someone else's life"
So I asked him (I think I surprised him that I even knew the news)...
"So, then, why are you getting married?"
Silence for a few seconds then, "I don't know".
Oh I know.... the coward can't stop the train wreck that he created. How is he now after 5 years of destruction going to turn around and say, everyone was right from the beginning and he was wrong?
He can't.... he a big fat stupid coward.
End of story.
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Kitty, Nah is exactly right that they needed someone worse than themselves.
Many MLCers are incapable of being alone. Also, I believe that the OW is not a random person but someone who is able to help them correct sometng from their past. My X told he he had been searching for a long time, and I believe him on that one.
MLC is a very long process, so many of these relationships are going to last a long time. X and OW have been together four and a half years. They live together. And? He's still a mess as far as I know. OW is horribly controlling and possibly a narcissist. She will probably do whatever she must to get the ring before her true self comes out. He's too weak to see her for what she's is.
And he's too much of a coward to say he screwed up. Look at Nah's: same basic story. He doesn't sound like a man who is deleriously happy and cannot wait to get married. He sounds to me like a man caught in a corner and doesn't know how to extricate himself.
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Attaching looking forward to many good questions
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2 questions.
I'm cycling a little and thought i would do some mirror work to keep myself from the ledge! Anyway, identified that I'm a fixer. I do it when its not needed/wanted. How do I work on this? Do I work on active listening? I just don't know how to stop fixing.
My other. Its coming up to D's birthday and I love D to bits but I wouldn't bear it if ow's name was written in any cards or if he said the pressies were from them both. I know its not my occasion and I need to put D first. How have people managed before when MLCer starts signing things as part of a couple with op? And do you this its reasonable to say to him "look, I dont want ow's name in/on things. If this is to happen, you can take it home afterwards". I know it isn't about me. I know this. I know I should want D to be happy (i do), and initially she will be, later she will get sad though and hes never seen this part of it all.
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Coming from someone without little ones....I would just remove all cards from all gifts and write the name of who they are from somewhere on the package...make it a game for her and whoops, forgot mistress name, sorry.......
Fixing seems to be a common problem. Maybe think about it from a control aspect. You cannot fix what you cannot control. Therefore nothing to fix! Hope you can see that cycle. Took me awhile to figure that out. Now, letting go of control, I will leave that up to you to educate the rest of us on.....
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Nah and Medusa,
Thank you so much for your responses. They have made me feel so much better about my situation. My soon to be ex husband has yet to admit to his affair which is maddening since I have tons of proof. I don't want him back but I would love to hear him say that he regrets what he did someday. I know I can't wait around for that because it may never happen but hearing your stories makes me believe that even if I don't hear it he will probably be living with major regrets in the future. Thanks again for your help!
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Lol, thanks 1phoenix.
I live life by mottos like that "I don't worry about what I can't control" is one of them, but its coming from a needing to help place rather than a need to control. I always offer advice even when its not needed/wanted. I literally had to bite my lips closed a few days ago because my sister wanted to vent. She knows me so said before she started talking "look, I know what I need to do and I know what I'm doing but please let me tell you about this before I go crazy. I dont need help, I just need you to listen".
I guess the way to "fix" is just becoming more aware and asking people if they want me to shut up and listen or try help them figure it out.
As for others letting go of needing to be in control, its only something they can control :o ;) :D
All of this is changing me though, I feel I do worry about things I cant control and that might not happen and I do get anxious because I have no say in how he does things that impacts on my kids.
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What,
Hmmmm, let's think...... #1 has their life thrown into complete upheaval by #2, someone they trusted. That trusting relationship was uprooted too. #1y person who most often did not see it coming feels anxious and scared and unwilling to trust almost everything that involves the person #2 who blew everything up.
Seems pretty normal. Especially when it would revolve around their kids.
Would you expect no changes in #1?
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Is it bad that we show our ex s that we don't trust them ? Does it make the crisis worse ?
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No maomina, nothing we do makes it worse....or better.
They do that all by themselves.
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Thanks thunder .....I m asking this cause my friends ex confides alot in her and she says he sees her as his safe place ....yet he keeps going to her when he's in trouble and needs money
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Well, I certainly hope she doesn't give it to him.
Would you want your H to come to you only when he needed money or was in trouble? I sure wouldn't.
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No I wouldn't either .....She did give them to him yet again she believed him . I tried to open her eyes and she now won't speak to me :'(
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Oh honey, she is just mad because you can see the truth and she knows you can. She's in denial.
She'll come around. You were being a friend by trying to make her open her eyes.
She will just have to learn the hard way. It won't bring him back, like you said she is enabling him.
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Im looking for a story of a man mlcer who wife he called phonix. It was quite long, he returned to his wife and his ow name was mj. Can anyone find it and attach please ? Thanks
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KB,
Are you talking about Newman and Phoenix?
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I think so.
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I'd have to look and see if I can find anything.
I am still in contact with Phoenix and they are doing really good. Their marriage is solid now.
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i didnt realize you were friends with her. what does her h ever say about what the op ever meant to him ? why do they stay with them, if like my h says he doesnt love her and throws in there that question " how do you know i even like her?" ( ummm maybe cause you have been with her 2 1/2 years.) i would like to read the story again if you could find it. what is phoenixs advice to lbsers?
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Oh her H said pw was nothing to him, but he thought she was for a long time. He didn't really even like her and had no problem walking away from her, once he woke up.
Phoenix is a pretty straight shooter. She feels the same way a lot of RCR's articles do, but she was strong enough to walk away from him, after the shock of everything wore off. She was not going to chase him or give him any attention, unless he worked on himself and showed her he was worth taking back.
Actually, they still last I heard go to a MC about once every 6 months, just to make sure their staying on track.
They are happy though, and I haven't asked about the MC for a long time so I'm not sure they still go.
Sorry I still haven't looked for any article yet. I'll do that this morning.
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Would you hook up with a married man? I don't care what he said to you, would you do it? Only pathetic, insecure, selfish girls will hook up with a married man. Period. Discussion over.
Sooooo needed to read this!! My H's twat is the complete opposite of me. She honestly reminds me of an oompa loompa from the pictures I have seen; they did not fit together AT ALL, so why her? He even asked me that question, but kept saying how incredibly nice she was. "She's really a nice person." Yeah I'm sure she is so she can land her a married military man. She wouldn't have to go to school anymore and could move her and her spawn here to mooch off of him. That b!tc# is completely happy with the chaos she has helped create. ::)
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One question that has interested me for awhile. I recently started to do a bit of online dating. I find it hard to connect to another man quickly especially since it seems it's just online interactions or brief one time coffee dates. My question is how do these MLCers attach so quickly to the OP? Is it they don't care about who it is? It's just a willing warm body? Or is it just a thrill to attach to someone new? Like buying a new car is more fun than driving around in the 10 year beater?
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One question that has interested me for awhile. I recently started to do a bit of online dating. I find it hard to connect to another man quickly especially since it seems it's just online interactions or brief one time coffee dates. My question is how do these MLCers attach so quickly to the OP? Is it they don't care about who it is? It's just a willing warm body? Or is it just a thrill to attach to someone new? Like buying a new car is more fun than driving around in the 10 year beater?
Based on what I have learned I think this is in fact unfortunately what we all are doing: imposing sane onto insane.
I think right hemisphere of frotonotemporal love is damaged. This affects a person's sense of social rules, empathy, consequences and destroys their inhibitions.
I think this is why seldom is the OP so off base as to alert others something is wrong. However, it is often someone they likely wouldn't be with if they had faculties of inhibition preserved.
You are trying to connect to someone on many levels with full facility of discernment, outcomes, critical thinking. Your former spouse does not have this. It must be like a kind of half dream where they are coasting along and things are happening, sometimes good, sometimes nightmarish, but always a sense of not quite in their control, not quite inhabited in their own body.
This is my own theory based on what I have read here and observe. It has nothing to do with you or your ability to connect. To the contrary! For me the bar is so high for any new person who could enter my life I'm just not even sure they could exist at this point. Be encouraged you have high standards!💛
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It is so strange that they can function day to day at work or friends and no one knows anything is happening.
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It is so strange that they can function day to day at work or friends and no one knows anything is happening.
Not really. MLCers are a master at wearing masks.
Shocked, it's infatuation. Those exciting, wonderful feeling that give us a rush in the beginning of a relationship. They are running from reality and anything that makes them not think about their craziness is going to be attractive. Plus, the OW feeds their needs, particularly their lack of self-esteem. Many OW present themselves as the damsel in distress. The MLCer feels he is the only possible person who can save her.
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This may be dumb to ask, but what is the better MLCer to deal with a clinger or vanisher? And, is there any evidence on which one seems to get through their MLC trip any sooner?
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It is so strange that they can function day to day at work or friends and no one knows anything is happening.
Medusa is right. Problem is, for them, they can't wear the mask forever.
The first year after BD, I was painted as "playing victim" who "couldn't get over it". I guess after 28 years of marriage I was supposed to be happy that my husband bolted and bought a house for him and his 28 yr old gf. Nothing wrong with him, I mean doesn't every guy fantasize about younger women? His friend actually said those exact words to me.
That same friend of 30 years about a year and a half later pulled me into his office and said, "Mr. Nah acts like he hates me and I don't know why"
Well, well, well, welcome to the club.
Don't worry about him and if people can or cannot see him for what he is doing.
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This may be dumb to ask, but what is the better MLCer to deal with a clinger or vanisher? And, is there any evidence on which one seems to get through their MLC trip any sooner?
Not at all dumb. It's too early to tell if your husband is a vanisher or clinger. They often change especially in the early days.
Mine is close to a vanisher but we do have interactions.
Personally I prefer to have a vanisher although it has nothing to do rather or not he will get through his trip and sooner. It's not about him, It's about me. It was easier for me to detach and get on with my own life. I don't know what he's doing day in and day out, so his antics do not get in the way with my own life.
It's very normal for you at this stage to try to hold on to the past. Change is hard. Letting go is hard. The future might be different then the expectations that you had, which is scary.
I know it hurts. This is by far the most painful experience I ever went through, painful, scary, the worst experience of my life.... and then the best.
For now, just get through each day. It will get better, for you anyways.
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So if these MLCers are masters at wearing masks, have depression and have self esteem issues, then what is it about us that attracts this kind of person and/or didn't see this MLC coming? I am guessing they were sort of OK until the MLC hit due to some life event? Surely, they had some kind of coping mechanisms in their 40-50 years of life to make it as far as now. I do think MLC is real and there a definitely patterns, but I wonder just how much of their decision to run or cheat is really about conscious choice.
Things that make you go 'hmmmmm' :P
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Surely, they had some kind of coping mechanisms in their 40-50 years of life to make it as far as now. I do think MLC is real and there a definitely patterns, but I wonder just how much of their decision to run or cheat is really about conscious choice.
I think they do have coping mechanisms. Its how they got through life. I also think their decision to run or cheat are conscious choices made because of unconscious issues in their past coupled with mortality issues and hormone imbalances. A perfect storm if you will. I think of it as a disease that strikes without warning like cancer.........
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I think they do have coping mechanisms. Its how they got through life. I also think their decision to run or cheat are conscious choices made because of unconscious issues in their past coupled with mortality issues and hormone imbalances. A perfect storm if you will. I think of it as a disease that strikes without warning like cancer.........
Mine was dealing with the mortality issues and a few "life events" coming up. Twat just walked in one day according to him and the rest is history. My H has always been the calm, cool collected one. The one with all the confidence and now he is a mangled mess of worrying about what everyone thinks of him. Twat makes him feel manly in some way, not sure what I was doing all these years to make him feel un-manly ::), but wtf ever.
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quote author=Slow Fade link=topic=8954.msg608779#msg608779 date=1502383142]
Surely, they had some kind of coping mechanisms in their 40-50 years of life to make it as far as now. I do think MLC is real and there a definitely patterns, but I wonder just how much of their decision to run or cheat is really about conscious choice.
I think they do have coping mechanisms. Its how they got through life. I also think their decision to run or cheat are conscious choices made because of unconscious issues in their past coupled with mortality issues and hormone imbalances. A perfect storm if you will. I think of it as a disease that strikes without warning like cancer.........
[/quote]
So the ones that return home have somehow cured their disease?
And how exactly does that happen I wonder? I know it's not just black and white - it's all a mucky fog of smokey grey. It's just all so bazaar. And, it seems most don't really come back from this....
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So the ones that return home have somehow cured their disease?
I don't think "cure" is the right word. Why do they come back? I don't know. I do know that mine didn't come back "cured". He is still broken and a mental mess, but he's trying. WE are trying.
All we can talk about is our experiences. In this case one size does not fit all.
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I agree one size doesn't fit all.
SF. Did your H talk much about his reasons for returning - I should read your thread. How long was he gone? OW?.
Nice that you are both trying and working on things.
I'm sure it is not easy for you. Was your H a clinger or vanisher or in between? :P
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I watched an interesting talk given by a man who said he'd been through five terrible years and it had started when he was 45.
He explained how he suddenly felt nothing, poor memory and thinking, fuzzy head, no concentration and poor sleep! No connection to anything and just didn't feel himself at all.
He eventually got help and was diagnosed with low testosterone! He's now been receiving treatment for this and he said he started feeling better very quickly and things improved for him as the months went on.
I felt this was a very encouraging talk by this man and he actually sounded like he was going through a MLC with his description of all his experiences!
Sadly there was a Dr with him during this interview, giving his opinion and I felt he spoilt this serious discussion by laughing and joking and saying this wasn't to be confused with a MLC where a man just gets a sports car, young gf etc! This doctor seemed to see MLC as just one huge joke!
I thought it was worth mentioning anyway!
X
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I agree one size doesn't fit all.
SF. Did your H talk much about his reasons for returning - I should read your thread. How long was he gone? OW?.
Nice that you are both trying and working on things.
I'm sure it is not easy for you. Was your H a clinger or vanisher or in between? :P
Hero, he didn't talk much about anything! ::) I was over helping him with his yard one day and he just looked at me and said "Well, I guess we need to get xyz done if we are going to do this." I said "Do what?" and he said "Get back together." :o :o :o Could have knocked me over with a feather.
BD was Easter in 2012 but he'd been having an affair since 2010. He came home May of 2016.
He was a clinger. LearningIAMOK called him Superglue! Lol!
He explained how he suddenly felt nothing, poor memory and thinking, fuzzy head, no concentration and poor sleep! No connection to anything and just didn't feel himself at all.
He eventually got help and was diagnosed with low testosterone! He's now been receiving treatment for this and he said he started feeling better very quickly and things improved for him as the months went on.
Very interesting! I wish my H would have received some treatment! He refused to acknowledge anything other than it was all my fault!
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Mine is too embarrassed to go see a doc because it makes him feel less "manly".
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This may be dumb to ask, but what is the better MLCer to deal with a clinger or vanisher? And, is there any evidence on which one seems to get through their MLC trip any sooner?
I don't think there is anything to say one goes through faster than the other, SMS.
X started as a boomerang, became off-on and is now pretty much a vanisher. Over the years, Nah and I have compared ours because out timelines are something like 3 weeks apart. Hers has shown some progress in his own way. Mine? He's still one angry, controlling jerk. Nah's lost everything including his high-paying job. Mine went and managed a promotion.
We say they cannot look at themselves to realize they are the common denominator to all their problems until they reach rock bottom. I don't know if Nah's has or not, but he's a whole lot closer than mine because we do have tangible evidence of what he's lost.
So what's better to deal with? I will take am vanished any day of the week. I lived with my MLCer for 8 months and wound up in the psych ward because of his crap. It wasn't until he finally moved out and shifted to off-on that my real healing began. But there are people who are able to see theirs every day and get through. Really Trying comes to mind. I guess it boils down to our own personality as to what we can deal with.
Mine is too embarrassed to go see a doc because it makes him feel less "manly".
That may be an excuse. They usually don't think there is anything wrong with them, so why go to a doctor? The only reason me would go is to get his prescription for Viagra (the name of the LBS existence!).
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Mine went to the doctor . Had labs done and he said that everything came back perfect. He then told me the dr. Said " whatever you are doing ,keep doing because everything is perfect." H then said to me " you must be pissed". Isnt that great.? Of course i was hoping just the opposite.
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Interesting....my EH was diagnosed with low testosterone after BD....I just know something is not right with him due to the personality change....unfortunately we can't help...the monster persona attacks me like I am his worse enemy....breaks my heart!!!
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Who is " happy" who describes themselves going theough mlc?
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Ok I have one..
Having a W, my antenna is tuned to the W MLC topics.
I've heard W's are the least likely to return. I've also heard W's are just as likely, if not more than men to return because LBHs detach and let go faster than LBWs do. Of course, this is all based on anecdotal evidence and it seems that nobody can agree on anything anyway so take that with a gain of salt.
I will say, I can see both sides... however, I feel it's all a crap shoot.. men, women.. all different, different FOO issues.. no two MLCs are the same. What do you guys think about the return of the Ws? That could be a movie title.
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The statistics on any MLCer's return are sketchy and this forum is one of the few where evidence to support any statistics are available.
It isn't true that Ws are more likely to return but there seems to be increasing suggestions that the tunnel may be a little shorter for Ws rather than Hs. The problem is that we have no idea where they are in the tunnel and for how long until they are well and truly out of it.
RCR is clear that the liminality phase is where the MLCer does most reflecting and makes the decision to return or leave the marriage/relationship assuming that there has been no divorce up to that point. Liminality can take years to arrive at. Not only that the LBSer may not want the MLCer back.
It is a crap shoot - but no relationship or marriage can truly begin to work again until both the MLCer and LBS are healed - no matter how long it takes.
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I thought the fact that if you are d or not it doesnt much matter If they decide to return .
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Serenity, I believe a lot of these MLCer's have low T. I think that is exactly what my H's problem was.
I told you, mine even had hot flashes. Medication can be very helpful but most of them don't take it. Nothing wrong with them, ya know. ::)
As far as the test for low T, from what I've read there is a specific test to find out, but the problem is most doctors just do the general testing, which shows they are in the normal range. I can't remember what they called it but it is not just the routine test.
Gman, from everything I've read over the years I was under the same understanding, that women come back less ofter then men.
Now please no 2x4 guys know I love and respect every single one of you, but I do feel women generally can make single work better than men. I don't know if it's the fact that the majority of them have been the caregivers and more able to take care of themselves. In an emotional way, plus they tend to have a bigger support group with other women. It does seem like men need women more than women need men. Sorry, guys I just do believe that.
Plus out of the 4 groups of people it has been reported that the 2 happiest groups of people are single women and married men. Not my test. ha ha
KB, yes I think the spouse can come back even after a D.
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I personally know a female MLCer who returned but she was mostly a clinger!
But I also know one that didn't so it really varies. I don't believe a D makes any difference as to whether they return or not.
I did send the information about low testosterone to my H and he said he'd been looking into things for himself but didn't think that was 'his' problem. He told me he looks at my photographs everyday so he thinks he's fine! We are just over 7 years since BD!!
X
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Thunder, see, I think it'd be the other way around.. Guys would have more enablers around that would keep them out in lala land and support their single lives. IMH experience, there are always more "bro" types around that want to get you out for a beer because "it's what you need" then women. The "girls night out" types are a smaller group then the "bro" types, at least I think so.
But at the same time, wouldn't a wife feel like she had done everything for everyone and turn around not want to abandon the kids they put so much time and effort into?
But if nobody comes back, they aren't in a MLC.. right? They're a WAS. Or they bounced around for a while and went to another track.
I know my W isn't typical.. she was the controller, the fixer, but .. she's also the male in the relationship and I'm the female. I'm the one with the big support network. My closest friend is my old boss from my last job and she's been nothing but support. My mom, my sister, the lady I am going to see tonight, I used to rent a room from and I'm good friends with her and her husband. All my good, close friends are women. I have guy friends, but I don't enjoy the relationships as deeply as I do with my women friends. Platonic friendships work for me because I end up being just another "girl friend".
W? she has no one.. especially not after what she did, the lies etc. I'd think too the LBS has more of a support group rather than the MLC spouse. I could see a WAW having a support group, but not an MLC one.. people are bound to see through the lies, the destruction etc.
I'm not disagreeing thunder.. maybe there are more WAWs than MLC Ws than WAH vs MLC hs.. in reality..
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Gman,
Sorry to say (guess having a bad day here), but does it matter? If you have love for them, you will be there, more than likely, to pick up the pieces when they return. If you harden your heart, that door is closed.
So if they are a MLCer or an abandoner or an adulterer or just an a$$hat, does it matter? They are yours. They are yours to decide if you want them home. No one else.
And even if there is no return, that does not negate the love you have, if you have it. Love does not just disappear if it is real and true.
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1phoneix, I don't disagree with you at all..
I just wanted to discuss what I saw as a contradiction in what I've seen on various forums about the return rates of women. As I mention, some people think they get through it faster and are more likely to return home than men and some see it the other way around.
The LBS wasn't a factor here. Even the discussion between Thunder and I shows how much of a disparity there is in viewpoints.
I think for all of us, the LBS will always love their spouse and they will be here to pick up the pieces. Or even if they aren't, they will offer help and support. But sometimes too much damage is done and despite the love the LBS has, they have to protect themselves from abuse.
But no, love never disappears, we suddenly don't hate our spouses. We were married for a reason, we stayed married for a reason. People who don't want to be together aren't. I think maybe it's a question of how close we will allow them to come to us, for our own protection, but that's based on the MLCs intentions and behavior, not the feelings of the LBS.
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Gman,
Bad day here. Having a statistics can show whatever you want moment. SORRY.
Enjoy the discussion.
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I've taken three stats classes along with an entire course in generating tests, questionnaires and surveys. The biggest issue here is what many people have noted.. it's all anecdotal evidence and that's already a form of bias in itself, it's completely voluntary, as is with taking or filling out any kind of survey. Most people who volunteer are biased, simply because they feel strongly enough to answer. So that automatically biases the responses to being bi modal or having a heavy skew towards outliers. Reason being, the only people who reported on how their relationship turned out are those who felt strongly enough to come back and tell us. There's also no accounting for people like rose or never say never who are stuck in the middle currently.
I get stats :D If you wanted to look at it from the perspective, that's what we see on the forum. They come back or they don't. We simply don't have enough data to increase the reliability of the results. Not to mention it's a simple yes no question and we aren't accounting for other variables / situations. So yes, a skewed or bi modal curve is what I would expect from such a large amount of bias. :D
Sorry you're having a bad day! I don't disagree with you at all! And stats aren't perfect, there is also researcher bias and at the end of the day, it's just a best guess..
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We will never get real statistics that mean anything.
People who have been through it and done rarely want to keep rehashing the past.
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But if nobody comes back, they aren't in a MLC.. right? They're a WAS. Or they bounced around for a while and went to another track.
Can you clarify what you mean here, gman? Are you suggesting that if someone doesn't come back to the marriage/relationship that they didn't have a MLC? That if they don't return, then they are simply walkaway spouses? I'm not sure I'm interpreting correctly what you mean by the above statement.
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Gman, that are plenty of reasons that an MLCer might not come back. They might decide they are happier with OP, but that doesn't make them a WAS. They may believe the former spouse won't take them back, so they settle. Or some of them never make it through the tunnel.
There are no easy answers to reconciliation except do the mirror work and live your life as though she isn't coming back.
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I was just arguing semantics and asking about an observation I made across forums really.
There was no "asking for a friend" implied ;D I've been doing a hell of a lot mirror work and living like she isn't coming back..
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Thunder. Any luck in finding that article?
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Actually Kb, I lost a lot of articles I had saved. I went into a different address I used a few years ago to retrieve them and because I hadn't used the account for so long they archived them. I was so mad because I had tons of them. Ugh!
I'm sorry, I only have about 6 that he wrote about male (I think) MLC.
I'll PM one to you and see if it's useful.
I am beyond upset! : (
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OK, I haven't updated my thread for a few months but I have been reading and lurking here every day.
Just need a bit of advise today. H had sent S24 rail tickets to the town where he now lives so that S24 could go down and they were going to have a lads day driving racing cars. H sent S24 a text asking if he had got the tickets then immediately sent another text that was obviously meant for another woman. Hey Gorgeous, lots of kissing and love you at the end. School boy error on Hs part :-\
BD was 20 months ago, he lived at home for the first 8 months then moved into our flat locally after 8 months he sold the flat and moved 200 miles away near his family so and I quote 'I can start a new life with a new social life'. Up until now I believe the alternator was work and exercise, but he was having a EA with an ex married friend at BD, not sure if or how long this continued, since moving he has joined a Military Fitness group and attends often, he is still exercising excessively.
S24 refused to use the rail tickets today, though he didn't tell me why, he told H that he didn't want anything to do with him until he came clean with me, H at first blamed 'a friend' for sending the text on Hs phone my mistake. (How teenage can you get this man is the VP of a company FFS). H is driving up to speak to me now, he should be here in around an hour. How do I handle this, I have come a long way since I last updated my thread (will update it tonight) I have detached, I don't pursue or initiate contact (haven't for around 7 months now) but he finds a reason to contact me every couple of weeks. I am polite and friendly, don't ask about his life.
I am hoping I can hold it together and just say keep it light. I don't know how long this has been going on but he only moved 12 weeks ago and had no ties to that area before. He told S24 that it was casual but you don't end text to a casual friend with I love you.
Any advise?
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Oh wow Enyo, no I sure don't.
Do you know why he is coming?
I guess just do what you have been doing. Stay detached and just listen to what he has to say.
I wish you luck!
Let us know how it goes.
Hugs, stay strong.
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It sounds to me the EA or PA has been going on a long time. These guys are great at hiding and lying. If you H wants a R with S24 he was told he has to come clean with you. Really what good does coming clean with you do for you? I think your S24 was being an upstanding young man. Good for him. But I wouldn't get you hopes up. I think if he's just coming to confess it still leaves you in the same place with a cheating MCLer!
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Thunder and Shocked thanks for the replies.
At BD I was sure that H was having an EA with my ex training partner/married (ex) friend who also over the 12 months before BD became his training partner. I knew that they were developing an emotional connection as he disconnected with me but he has always adamantly denied it saying 'we were just friends'.
So he was here around 4 hours, before he came he spoke to S26 and got him to promise not to show me the text, which by that time he already had, so I didn't let on I had seen it. The text read like he was very emotionally involved with this women, it wished her a safe journey from her travels and asked that she let him know she had arrived safely it also said 'will catch you tonight for our goodnight beautiful, Love you' H admitted to seeing someone but, as he thinks that I haven't seen the text, said it was just casual and they had only ever met in a group with the rest of the fitness group. After reading the text this is obviously a lie but I didn't call him on it.
We had a really good talk and he finally admitted that he had been having an EA affair with the training partner at BD and that the feelings were reciprocated by her. He also admitted that they still talk 'occasionally' on the phone. I know that I am assuming here but I think that this EA (maybe physical?) is still ongoing and this is who the text was to. She is married to a man 17 years older than her, my H is 15 years older, and has two teenage boys, her H is seriously loaded and I think she is mercenary enough not to leave him, he bank rolls her hobby/business. I also know that flirting and reeling men in is a sort of hobby for her, she can't seem to help herself! so she could be doing this with half a dozen men!
All in all I feel that the gas lighting is over, I knew all along who he was seeing and this confirmation, even if she may not the current women, actually feels like a weight has been lifted off me.
I feel that I conducted myself with dignity and poise, I was calm and even got in a few truth darts. I also think that at the end of the day I am definitely be the better option, lets hope that I am still standing when/if he comes out of this.
Will update my thread with our conversation, which was enlightening, in the morning. Thanks for the advice. x
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I'm glad you feel good about it Enyo! I hope those feelings continue for you!!
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All in all I feel that the gas lighting is over, I knew all along who he was seeing and this confirmation, even if she may not the current women, actually feels like a weight has been lifted off me.
I feel that I conducted myself with dignity and poise, I was calm and even got in a few truth darts. I also think that at the end of the day I am definitely be the better option, lets hope that I am still standing when/if he comes out of this.
This sounds like me four+ years ago. When you have your suspicions confirmed it's as if you learn that your instinct is still intact and that is a biggie for, in a strange way, it validates you and your core.
Good to read that you remained calm and conducted yourself in a gracious way - it really is the best way to be. I took up RCR's comment about acting with grace and dignity about 4 months in after BD and that is how I have been ever since. Irrespective of whether H came back or not - I knew that I had to do it for myself so that I could hold my head high and say " I did nothing to perpetuate your crisis - I am the better option and I am the truer person"
It has sustained me throughout with my stay-at home high replayer. Now OW is gone and he is in the stages of reconnection. This is not to say that yours will do the same but I firmly believe that being gracious and dignified with the occasional meltdown (controlled or spontaneous) is a good way to pave the way and to help you detach.
BTW - starting a new thread.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=9306.