[crazyforhim]

Superdog- I have to say I do see a huge difference in my H.
I believe he is at the tail end of replay but who really knows and I see a man that is more mature, less monster, more depressed than earlier in replay but also more of the man that I knew before BD.
It is nice to see the changes but the depression is not so nice and he tries so hard to hide it from me but I can certainly hear it in his voice.

I haven't heard the words come out of his mouth yet but I guess time will tell the tale.
 

[kikki]

Hi Superdog
Uggh! It is a long long meandering path - this crisis of our H's!

My H had a return to replay last night (read the bit on my thread it will eeek you out).

The behaviour regressions are pretty hard to take - that would be especially difficult to tolerate.  I remember reading somewhere that these OW are often asked to tolerate, and partake in all sorts of things that they usually wouldn't dare ask of us.  You probably saw a window into that world.  He got things a bit confused by asking that of you.  Doesn't bare thinking about too much does it!

Think you and crazy are about 6mths ahead of me, although his detachment and the OW infatuation was building around mid 2009, BD wasn't until Feb 2010.
My H has been pretty manic again these past 6mths, but has recently been very open about not talking to me about how he was feeling (prior to BD) - and called it dishonest.  Acknowledged that his FOO set him up to be this way. He kept on saying how grateful he was that we could have these talks.
He seems much calmer these past few weeks, and much more like his old self.  He has been tramping one day per week, so I think that must be doing good things for his head. 

I'm not seeing much depression right now, although I did get a very mournful and long sounding phone message last night, when he couldn't get hold of us. 
There have been so many times, in the past few months,  that I've felt like he was holding onto the edge of the liminal abyss, and he's dragged himself back out and into replay again. 

[superdog]

I have a question about awakenings.....

I understand that they happen intermittently but from my own h's behaviour they almost seem like they forget what they realised at a certain point in time.

My h says things like he is to blame for everything yet when i say even the slightest thing eg: i asked why he doesn't use his phone in the house when people are in, it all of a sudden becomes my fault by him saying it's because i don't like it and never have??

I realise that this bit is about not accepting real responsibility for stuff and replay is still inplay, but when he made such a big deal of his apology about 9 months ago and letters he wrote me whilst living away outlined the classic replay of earlier events, he reverts back to this.

Is it merely denial and not coping with what they REALLY know to be true?

I am just wondering if they forget these moments of clarity for real or if they merely acknowledge then deny?

Just for the record i don't ask questions much at all, today i was merely making an observation to him and i told him this. I also said use away because nothing bothers me now.

I hope i have made some sense of my question.

SD
x

[GBM]

I have seen the same thing with my xh.  He had what I considered (and still do now) to be an awakening about 2 ½ years ago. In hindsight now, I can see what happened and put all the pieces together.  Prior to that he had some moments of clarity but it never stuck for long.  When it was real, I really felt it, it was very different but he still kept running after that.  It confused me.

 Mine created a ton of damage that was too great for him to handle, and what I have seen since has been dealing with the guilt and depression.   I was confused for a while because even after what I thought was a real awakening, he would regress.  He acted as though he was ready to face the damage, and I think he wanted to, but he was not at all prepared to face things. 

During the next round of connection for us, he was clearly depressed but very aware.  I think too aware of what he had lost.  He acknowledged things that he hadn’t in the past, like things I had done around my house.  He looked at pictures on my mantle with great sadness in his eyes. He had lost so much time, and had become aware of it.  He was overwhelmed and decided to run a little more to escape, but he could only go so far.  Just when I thought he was a goner for good, he’d come back for more!   With each cycle of connection for us, he, and probably I, have learned and gotten stronger.

It did seem like what he had learned or “awakened” to, had been forgotten, because when he felt cornered he’d spout off some serious nonsense.   I have learned since that he had not forgotten at all, it has just taken some time for him to process all of this.  I am learning from him just what a huge role guilt has played.  Fear has also been a huge factor.  When his feelings for me started to resurface, it overwhelmed him, and I saw how afraid he was of whether or not I would accept him. 

I hope this helps.  My xh is just now really starting to talk about things.  I hope he can continue to make progress.  The progress he has made lately has been very impressive, especially in acknowledging his guilt and how it makes him act.    He’s really frustrated with what he has done, and how to make peace with how his actions belied who he thinks he is.  He doesn’t understand most of what happened to him. What he does is trickling out slowly.

[superdog]

GBM, thank you so much for replying. This is exactly what I was getting at, you articulated it so much better. I guess maybe because you h is further on and you can see looking back.

It is confusing me as he appears to backtrack on what seemed real at the time it was said or done. My h keeps running shoes to his side at all times. I learned not to qustion, only to state things in actual fact, no opinions.

I see and hear guilt and it manifests in nonsense as you say. So I guess they don't forget just forget to deal with it.

Sd
X

[GBM]

Superdog,
 LOL "forgets to deal with it".  XH has forgotten a lot, and it all seems to be for the cause of saving himself at all costs.  All kidding aside, I have seen him absolutely panic when he has had a memory of something he did.  It isn't even spoken, I can just see the wheels turning, and the only thing he says is "I think I'm having a heart attack".  LOL, it may not be funny but when I look back on certain times, it amuses me, because I know this needs to happen, and he's not going to die!  I do treat him with a little bit of caution though, because it actually looks dangerous at times; his brain may short-curcuit if he gets too much information at once.  I tend to keep in mind that this man is very good at protecting himself, at everyone else's expense, so I don't worry too much.  He needs to learn how to not do this, and I have to give him credit, he is making huge progress.

I don't blame you for getting confused, and even very discouraged at times.  This take a long, long, time.  Some way longer than others; mine is a slow learner.  He has very immature defense mechanisms, and this is a big part of his problem. I see these moments of clarity, and then reverting back to MLC drivel as par for the course, and normal (for them).  I'm still learning.  Mostly I'm learning that I was seeing progress with him, but I didn't know it, or when I thought I did, I didn't have faith in it.  This was my face most of the time   

Keep on stating the facts, matter of factly; that's what I started doing.  It seems to have an impact....eventually.  Sometimes doing this would make him angry, or defensive, and he would say hurftul things to me to get me to be quiet.  One of the best things I said to him once was "you must be really hurting to be so nasty to me, I'm sorry you are hurting".  It broke his defenses right down.  He said "when you are wiling to forgive and forget, I'll come running, but I'm not going to live in the past".  I told him that I can forgive but forget....NEVER!!  I didn't hear from him for a month, but that's ok, he heard me, and he took away a little more of what will be required from him. 

[OldPilot]

I have a question about awakenings.....

I understand that they happen intermittently but from my own h's behaviour they almost seem like they forget what they realised at a certain point in time.

It sounds like you are talking about touch and go's/
They are STILL in CRISIS!
When the crisis is over then things will start to make sense again.
But not until that time

[Trustandlove]

you must be really hurting to be so nasty to me, I'm sorry you are hurting".   

What a good line -- well done. 

[justasking]

I agree with OP about them being touch and goes.

Awakening is at the end of replay as they start to move towards OW withdrawal or depression. At that point all replay behaviours will have subsided completely or be severely diminished.

But sometimes awakening looks like a touch and go and therefore maybe only seen in retrospect.

Hugs

[hyperglad]

It is hard to know because many times i thought this is it, he would say all the right things, how sorry he was, it was all down to him etc and I am sure like an addict or alcoholic he meant it at the time. When it really happened, only last Nov after he had been home properly for 12mths, it was so different , and its not what they say but how they act, what they do and how they treat you.When it finally happens I think you know.

((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))