Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: bluerose on November 27, 2018, 06:11:38 PM
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I noticed it was time for a new thread, so here we go. When i started this thread i never thought it would be this big. Hope it continues to help us understand these guys, if thats at all possible.
Tyks, the coward said some of the same things to me , quite awhile ago, we do not communicate.
Previous thread: https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10418.0
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Jumping aboard thread 20!!
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Glad we keep this thread going.
Do any of the rest of you 'clanishers of the vanishers' still have those moments when, bc you don't see the crazy, you wonder if really this is normal and how people behave when they run off with an ow/om?
Sometimes I think I come back to HS almost to double-check my own instinct, reading others stories so I can be reminded of my own WTF moments.
It didn't FEEL normal but some years on, idk, i sometimes wonder if I'm just being niave bc I would have behaved differently if I had wanted to leave him.
Gah, just having one of those mornings...tripped over an old note in his handwriting amongst some old paperwork and had one of those 'what the hell happened to that guy' moments.
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Glad this thread is still going. My boomerang at the beginning has become a vanisher. Yes, still get those WTF moments often, actually, every other day. The problem is right there, Treasur, the way they left us. Cruel beyond belief.
My take on it is because they are cowards, can't face their problems, and can't face giving others bad news. Can't face other's pain, especially if they caused it. That goes for their own kids, too. Can't face problems in general, that's why so many of them are penniless and indebted. They run from the truth, thus increasing their debt and making it harder for them to be able to clear their debt ever.
They are immature, believing that if they ignore problems, they might disappear. When faced with problems, they feel like victims, like they're so unlucky, or that others have forced them to cause their own problems. I believe the vanishers have this kind of personality.
They look for quick fixes. We are told that all the time, but I can relate it to their money problems, too. If they can borrow from a relative to keep going, they will. I call that a quick fix, too. It just increases their debt. I use the money example because my H is one of the extreme replayers, spending and spending to please OW, not paying off any debt, risking going to prison if he doesn't start paying maintenance by the end of 2019. I'm sure he has a plan for that, probably running away to some foreign land, as if there's anywhere to run any more. You can be found everywhere these days.
Comparing my H's quick fix system with his finances to how he is living his personal life, OW/spending/avoiding me and kids, helps me see it as a general problem in him as opposed to a personal refusal of me. We are told it's not about us, they did not reject us, and I know this to be correct in principle, but I do have to keep reminding myself. With a vanisher it's so easy to feel that they really did never love us and our marriage was a mistake. With a vanisher, you don't ever get a crumb like with the clingers, although a clinger drive your emotions crazy.
Coming to the forum helps me rebalance myself. There's comfort in hearing I'm not the only one living in this WTF world. There's no comfort in RL. I can't tell anyone in RL how I really feel, and you all know what I mean. Thank goodness for this site.
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Tyks. Thank you so much for the post.. All I could see while reading it was my Xh face and my d. They are both saying the same thing.
As far as the communication comment, what a joke... I ask as I am sure you all did. What was wrong and what I could do to help. I got , I don't know or silence.
I am trying to detach as much as other here and trying to be more like you all. Thank you for giving the advice and strength. I couldn't do this without all of you.
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Yup - I'm continuing on with this thread.
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Helps me when I have doubts and think "well, maybe I imagined those 20 years, and maybe xh is now normal and happy bc he left me/has his new wife/new life" - bc it is hard to know sometimes with no evidence even though it is sane to not look - and then I remember that logically my xh is most likely no different from all the other stories. That just bc I don't see it does not mean he isn't still a mess. Which for reasons I'm not sure I understand sometimes makes me feel better.
I think a vanisher is a bit like a RL version of Schrodinger's Cat actually :)
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Treasur, I think we ALL question at times, especially after a quiet period with no contact and not looking at any social media so we see no evidence of any strangeness. (Although I'm totally with you on the NOT looking at anything. It's just so much better that way.)
I find myself questioning ALL the time, maybe more so because my H has exhibited less of the cra-cra-crazy that some others have. For instance, Treasur, I can look at your situation and say holy crap, how could anyone ever question that he's a complete mess - my outside perspective is consistent while yours wavers because you're so much closer to your own situation.
My H never did anything really crazy, nor did the OW. To the outside world, he moved to a new state, got a better job and is in a happy relationship. They don't know he left me with a long letter about how he's been afraid of me for almost 2 decades, hasn't paid a dime towards his debt in two years, avoids getting divorced and makes ridiculous excuses to cover up his vanishing (you all know the old story: sorry I vanished for over a year, my phone went through the washing machine...)
Just a few weeks ago I said something to my sister in law about sometimes wondering if I'm making too much of all of this and she without hesitation looked at me like I had 3 heads and said, "You think this is the normal way a marriage ends?"
Then just last week she made a comment about how she must have been naive her whole life because she never knew a person could just "flip a switch" like that and how he definitely changed overnight, because there's no way we all, every single one of us, could have read him so wrong for such a long time.
And even hearing that, I still find myself questioning it all. And I suspect I probably will question certain things every so often for the rest of my life.
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Do any of the rest of you 'clanishers of the vanishers' still have those moments when, bc you don't see the crazy, you wonder if really this is normal and how people behave when they run off with an ow/om?
No. But I never thought any of this was normal. Normal does not include a personality change and psychotic episodes that have never happened before. At 12 years and counting from BD, I am certain none of this is normal. Still, now, it is all residual.
How would I end things? I don't know. With it is over, maybe. When I am really done with something I am done. It is pointless to try to get explanations or whatever from me. But I don't think there would be a fuss. Just, over and that is it.
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Coming along on no 20, boomerang to vanisher although back in touch with the children and the occasional kid speak with me so not a complete vanisher at present. That will change soon. Xx
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I can only speak in regards to my "clanisher" but to cut a very long and full of MLC Monster drama short. Last week we had our first telephone conversation since he left in April 2017. I got the feeling that he was doing his best to portray that everything was well with him and his new life but when I asked him twice, once in the middle and then again towards the end of the conversation as to whether he`s happy, his answer both times was that he`s feeling a lot better physically and has put on the weight that he lost.
Looking back,some parts of the conversation were quite amusing as the reason he called was that I had written asking him to contact me about the aparment/lease Bear in mind, the last 1 1/2 years with breaks inbetween, I`ve tried everything other than taking him to court (it would cost me money that I don`t have) to get him to sign the lease over to me but to no avail. These are two of his arguments against it;
1. I`m worried that the house management will make you sign a new lease with bad conditions
- This is absolutely ridiculous as he knows that I would not have to sign a new lease, the original one would stay valid as long as I live here, the only thing that would change ist that his name would be deleted from it.
2. I`ll never be able to find an aparment in Munich again
- I loved the second reason :) and maybe I`m wrong but him saying that does make it seem pretty obvious that he doesn`t want to stay living together with OW in her aparment forever, although I can`t imagine her letting him move out withough a huge drama as she has her ugly, long claws dug in deeply
Milly, I can identify so well with what you wrote, my MLCer has gotten himself into debt with four people (they`re the only ones I know about) with whom he used to do business with and has literally been in hiding since Summer 2017 because of them During the call last week, he told me that he`s always been an honest and straightforward person and has a few unpleasant matters that he will have to deal with in the near future, so maybe or better said hopefully he is starting to have some "clear moments".
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I find myself questioning ALL the time, maybe more so because my H has exhibited less of the cra-cra-crazy that some others have. For instance, Treasur, I can look at your situation and say holy crap, how could anyone ever question that he's a complete mess - my outside perspective is consistent while yours wavers because you're so much closer to your own situation.
Just a few weeks ago I said something to my sister in law about sometimes wondering if I'm making too much of all of this and she without hesitation looked at me like I had 3 heads and said, "You think this is the normal way a marriage ends?"
Then just last week she made a comment about how she must have been naive her whole life because she never knew a person could just "flip a switch" like that and how he definitely changed overnight, because there's no way we all, every single one of us, could have read him so wrong for such a long time.
And even hearing that, I still find myself questioning it all. And I suspect I probably will question certain things every so often for the rest of my life.
Thanks for the reality check, Nas.
A left over bit of legal crap sent me spiralling today. To be honest, it made me want to throw up and I hate those panic attack type feelings now. It will get resolved, I know, and I have emailed my L but it is something I thought was already sorted out. I just hate how fragile I feel, how little it takes to knock me off centre still.
Yes, what you say is quite right. Not always but often, I read stories here and have no doubt that someone else's spouse is on the crazy train, that is just isn't normal behaviour for a sane adult. Even a sane adult who no longer loves their spouse and wants to end their marriage. Yet it is harder to see close up in ones own situation. I would say the same about yours, Nas. Don't know the why or if it is MLC or not, but who uses an excuse like the washing machine one? Or says they want a divorce and then behaves in the exact opposite way?
And your SiL is right too, how weird it is to see people after years flip a switch not just on their marriage but actually on their whole persona. Again, difficult to know why, but reassuring when RL folks say 'wow, that IS weird'.
Changes nothing practically but for those of us with vanishers it is helpful to be reminded occasionally that we are not insane, that what happened isn't run of the mill and that this is why it does such a number on us for so long. Why 'moving on' from our marriage is maybe quicker than moving on from the insane way our marriage ended and the mess that created to sweep up.
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Exactly. It's so hard to stop thinking about the reality of what happened. It's not the marriage ending that is hard to move on from, it's all the craziness and unexplained/unexplainable other stuff.
My sister in law actually cried last week. It showed me that I'm not the only one who misses his presence. Since BD, she has consistently shown only anger at H, not just for leaving me, but for leaving them. She thought of him as a brother. The day he left me, he cried to her and told her, "I love the hell out of those kids" (our niece and nephew). He had not seen them for 4 months at that point and now hasn't seen or spoken to them in almost 4 years.
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My mother who has dementia cried and cried about my h being 'ill' and kept asking for him for almost 2 years. She treated him like a son for 18 years and always hated how his own parents treated him, so felt quite maternally protective towards him. Both of my parents really loved and trusted him, and would have described him as a great son-in-law. But he erased her too. I contributed to the cost of his paternal grandmothers care....he has never contributed anything or visited my mother since BD.
It is s$itty but pretty common I think that they throw everyone into the discarded box, Nas, no matter what they say at first.
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My take on it is because they are cowards, can't face their problems, and can't face giving others bad news. Can't face other's pain, especially if they caused it. That goes for their own kids, too. Can't face problems in general, that's why so many of them are penniless and indebted. They run from the truth, thus increasing their debt and making it harder for them to be able to clear their debt ever.
They are immature, believing that if they ignore problems, they might disappear. When faced with problems, they feel like victims, like they're so unlucky, or that others have forced them to cause their own problems. I believe the vanishers have this kind of personality.
Hope I did the quote correctly 1st time I've tried that
There are some character deficiencies in these people that contribute to their handling problems in the way they do. My ex for sure was like this. She complained that there was always tension when I was around that I made her feel like she needed to be doing something. I told her many times, she could relax but she put the pressure on herself and blamed me. It's like they don't have the ability to self reflect, everything is projected on us. Then when they start to hate themselves for the non-sense those things they hate about themselves is projected onto us too.
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I think your right treasur and nas, it’s the mess and unbelievable actions and changes that our spouses do. My h has erased everyone. His parents are very ill and when his mother was in hospital he saw her twice in 4 mths and he only lives half an hour away from the hospital or their home.
He flits in and out of our children’s lives. Is it me as what normal parent leaves his children a week before xmas and continues to vanish when the going gets tough or ow has a tantrum that he sees the children when she is off work so only sees them 4 times in 15 mths.
A normal divorce surely is quicker than a mlc divorce. H still has not started the financials as he can’t afford it but is spending a fortune on bikes and bike equipment and turned up on Monday to pick up son with a very expensive watch, trainers and jeans apparently.
For me the projection is unreal and that he almost made me think I was crazy for suspecting he was having an affair, that I was paranoid. The avoidance which h states is not rising to anything so h is not rising to my emails re divorce and seeing the children. I just sit back now and wait for whatever happens or he throws at me.
A normal break up is surely still not so hard and continuing with clanishers and crazy divorce how many yrs later! Xx
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My take on it is because they are cowards, can't face their problems, and can't face giving others bad news. Can't face other's pain, especially if they caused it. That goes for their own kids, too. Can't face problems in general, that's why so many of them are penniless and indebted. They run from the truth, thus increasing their debt and making it harder for them to be able to clear their debt ever.
The part in bold -- for the longest time I told myself that H just fell out of love, OW is a better match for him and his new life is going well for him because he is working hard at it, and the reason he vanished is simply because he can't face me because he knows it will hurt me to see that he's doing so well after leaving me.
Which may be true. He doesn't post his new life all over social media like some do. If he feels guilty because he knows it will hurt me to see that he is much better off after leaving me, then vanishing makes total sense for someone who wants to avoid uncomfortable feelings at all costs.
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I never really knew if my H was a vanisher or not. I know I haven't physically seen him for 2.5 years. He's been gone for 4 years (had one short return). But we have the occasional 'business related' contacts. He wishes me Happy Bday every year via text or email and he's been sending a Cmas gift to the house every year. Since he comes by the house once a month (I'm never there when he does) I don't get why he can't just leave a gift. Why mail it?. Over last 4 years he has mailed the Cmas gift to the house via UPS. :o
I've left him a Cmas gift when he comes to the house once a month. I actually wrap it. It's not a UPS box.
Yes, it's nice that he thinks of me enough to send a gift and wish me a Happy Bday. I just don't understand it.
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Hello fellow clanishers ....
Glad to see a new thread and thought I’d pop on it with some thoughts...
I think the bottom line with vanishers is that we will never truly know or completely understand it.... the whole vanishing act is a WTF experience.
It’s weird but I’ve gotten to the point I’m “used to it” now. I expect the unanswered-ness of it. I’m a little bit content with it even.
I don’t think immediately of hwow upon awakening.
I’m 3 years into this, so “Time” has done his/her magic.
I stumbled into the vanisher’s BD note the other day cleaning out my junk drawer. LOL. I didn’t recognize it at first even though a few months back I had been looking for it and couldn’t find it. The 2-sentence note he left by the television when he bailed didn’t even look familiar! I remember thinking “Oh wow, this is his BD note... I was looking around for this...” but it didn’t cause me pain or grief or a cycle. I just put it in its proper place (instead of junk drawer- LOL) and went on with my life.
At this point in my journey I think I will find it much more strange when the vanisher surfaces...
I have an intuition vanisher will face clannisher one day because it’s true that it’s not so much about the broken marriage as it is for HOW he did that. He’ll want a reckoning some day... and he’ll want it for himself. More than likely not for me.
I’m learning :D
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The letter flowed from an outburst from me. Pent up anger I guess when I asked him to do something very easy. The letter was sad. Just shows me that he is still messed up and still taking the easy road. I hope it helps some of us to see exactly how messed up they are.
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Between early January and May 2008 there were nearly 10 years. Aside from a court thing October 2014, I didn't saw Mr J in ten years. And before, since I come back, I saw him once, August 2007. Since he left, October 2006, I only saw him physically those 4 times.
Can't say it is a lot for more than 11 years since I returned home.
When I was still in the capital he would be around all the time. He would call, e-mail, text, you name like a mad man. The non physical contact carried on madly for a good while after I was back here. At a point, I start to cut contact. It was just driving me mad.
Watcher said on his thread that he does not have more 8 months of NC with his wife in him. At this point, I have 8, 18, 180 months or years in me of no NC with Mr J. I gain nothing from contact with him, only lose.
It is so much nicer to interact with normal, decent people than with a still manic, still angry, still depressed MLCer. Too much going on in my life right how for I to even consider sparing a moment for/with Mr J.
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Does anyone else with a vanisher feel as if their life was sort of raped? As if a huge question mark was slammed over your life and you were left standing there, metaphorically 'told' to just suck it up with no right to a voice? And do you think that makes the desire to shout or write or speak your truth somehow - whether at your vanisher or not - more of a compulsion?
Do you think that is more the case with a vanisher or not? Is a question mark worse or better than monster spew?
And if you did/do feel the need to reclaim your truth or remove that question mark, did you eventually find a healthy constructive way to do it? (I'm assuming that Nah will say her book was, and Lisa Arends used a blog and Vikki Stark wrote a book too)
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Clingers can tell you to just suck up because it is what it is. At times, literally and to your face. At times in angry monster.
There isn't much difference, other than clingers never let go and are a headache.
We want to write it/have our truth be heard/told regardless. There isn't much point in trying to tell it to a clinger. They don't listen.
Question mark is better than monster spew. Our sanity is spared.
I told my truth to Mr J, both verbally and in writing when he was a clinger. No idea if he listened. It is also on legal documents. In my case, I have his and OW1 letters. I happen to know exactly what happened, how and when. No, he does not know I have the letters.
I will never write a book, or a blog, or a story, about any of this. Don't need it haunting my past, present and future.
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Does anyone else with a vanisher feel as if their life was sort of raped? As if a huge question mark was slammed over your life and you were left standing there, metaphorically 'told' to just suck it up with no right to a voice? And do you think that makes the desire to shout or write or speak your truth somehow - whether at your vanisher or not - more of a compulsion?
Do you think that is more the case with a vanisher or not? Is a question mark worse or better than monster spew?
And if you did/do feel the need to reclaim your truth or remove that question mark, did you eventually find a healthy constructive way to do it? (I'm assuming that Nah will say her book was, and Lisa Arends used a blog and Vikki Stark wrote a book too)
Treasur to be honest it somewhat frustrates me on this site how some posters continually make comparisons about the type of MLCer we have and which is better in means of antics and recovery for the LBS. Every single one of us has endured pain and hurt from our Mlcers betrayal...that is why we are here....to seek support from people who understand our experience. Without judgement...sadly this is not always the case. There are too many posters obsessed with their own situations that they cannot and will not see other perspectives, they believe that their opinions and research is correct and will not look at situations with open minds. They are of no help to anyone with this type of mentality.
Each individual LBS handles their own situation uniquely. There is no scale to measure ones feelings, acceptance of the situation or healing time. We are all humans and as we all know are different.
Whilst I understand that the type of MLCer we have does bring its own issues and varying stress levels there should be no comparison. A LBS with a Clinger will experience different life challenges than a LBS with a Vanisher, LBS with children versus LBS's with no children. Our dynamics are totally different. We are all hurt and damaged. Some of us have damaged children and some don't. At the end of the day ALL LBS suffer emotionally regardless of the varying factors. We are all the same, experiencing this MLC mind firetruckery, who are learning to survive this ride the best we can. We have standers, non-standers, LBS who have moved on, people who don't believe in the MLC process, posters who do, people who don't believe in reconciliations and others who do. We are all different and our thoughts and opinions do matter. We all learn from each other in a supportive environment.
Oh boy do I constantly analyse my life critically. My life changed in a blink of a eye....no warning signs, no nothing. So yes I understand the rape term. I constantly replay things in my mind, revisit photos to see if I missed any vital signs. Yes I feel that my life has been a lie, that my children and I have been the victims of the sinister actions of the Mlcers mind...but I know that the man I married, the man I and others knew so well..would never intentionally hurt so many....BUT HE HAS!
In relation to your question, yes I do feel compelled to one day tell my story. The real story. I have remained quiet and composed whilst my H and the OW fabricate lies to justify their actions. I want the truth to one day be revealed and told....WHY you may ask....because the truth is important to me.
Many people don't believe their manufactured stories, as they know first hand....realistically these are the people that count....but it is still important to me to tell my story.
I do plan to write my story....mainly for therapeutic reasons for myself....it may well not be published....that is ok...it is for me, my kids and my family. Our story...Our truth.
Treasur if you wish to write your story, please do so. When we all first received our free ticket to this Mlc party we all frantically searched for books and research matter on MLC. As we all found there was limited material. Much outdated and or severely opinionated matter from a angry bitter LBS (no names required). I admire Nah and I do hope she writes the rest of her story. If a LBS can tell their story that will/could help another LBS during their journey isn't that a success? I want to be a success....what form of success is yet to be determined...I will know more as my story plays out.
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I am going to direct this to Brenross. Is it really necessary to use this forum to keep complaining about other posters?
I read Anjae's post (for I am pretty sure it is Anjae that you have a problem with) and I did not see that she was doing anything but add her thoughts to the previous posts.
We are not all the same, we don't have the same situations and we will always have differences of opinions.
Bashing people, as has been happening pretty regularly recently is pretty disturbing to me.
Is there anyway that we can stay on topic and stop taking personal shots at one another?
Every single one of us have been wounded deeply by our stories..empathy, support and caring is really helpful....calling others out is not in my opinion.
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I’m with xyz all the way on this.
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Xyzcf and Nas
Ladies you have both made an assumption which is not correct. As I have stated many times I do not have a issue with Anjae.....I was replying to Treasur post.
I do have a problem with many various posters making insinuations and comparisons on people's threads. We are all damaged and do the best we can. This site is for support.. If you read my posts you will see that I continually state this repetitively. Posters need to be respectful of everyone else's situation.
We are not all the same, we don't have the same situations and we will always have differences of opinions.
Bashing people, as has been happening pretty regularly recently is pretty disturbing to me.
Every single one of us have been wounded deeply by our stories..empathy, support and caring is really helpful....calling others out is not in my opinion.
This is exactly my point on my post and on numerous of my posts. Hero spouse has lost its focus somewhat....I do hope that it gets back on track.
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These are the comments that struck me Brenross. Because of late, there has been so much conflict on HS, I am pointing out how comments like this make me feel.
Without judgement...sadly this is not always the case. There are too many posters obsessed with their own situations that they cannot and will not see other perspectives, they believe that their opinions and research is correct and will not look at situations with open minds. They are of no help to anyone with this type of mentality.
Much outdated and or severely opinionated matter from a angry bitter LBS (no names required).
We can still state what we want to say...without stirring up the pot once again.
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The quote you put in red ink is what I was agreeing with. So I guess we are ALL guilty of making insinuations and assumptions at times.
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Without judgement...sadly this is not always the case. There are too many posters obsessed with their own situations that they cannot and will not see other perspectives, they believe that their opinions and research is correct and will not look at situations with open minds. They are of no help to anyone with this type of mentality.
Sadly isn't this the case? How many times do,you read a post and shake your head in disbelief xyzcf?
Much outdated and or severely opinionated matter from a angry bitter LBS (no names required).
I was actually referring to Chumplady - her views and her website.
The quote you put in red ink is what I was agreeing with. So I guess we are ALL guilty of making insinuations and assumptions at times.
Thank you Nas....lets work on getting this site back on track.
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Also, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion that there is no comparison and that we are all hurting. And I’m entitled to my opinion, which is that there is a very big difference between clingers and vanishers, between those who are financially abused in those who aren’t, between those who deal with personality disordered affair partners and those who don’t...etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
And of course we are all going to make comparisons between our situations. That’s what happens when you have so many different situations, so many different personalities and so many different opinions. The trick is to keep it a conversation and not an argument when making those comparisons. But to simply say that we are all hurting in the same way is not correct. A person who is not been financially abused has no idea how a person who has been financially abused feels. A person who has not ever been physically assaulted has no idea how someone who has been physically assaulted feels.
I personally have been given advice by well meaning people who have chastised me for my approach to my situation, when their situation is the exact opposite. Specifically, I have been told more than once by more than one LBS who has a financially responsible MLCer That I need to get over my “bitterness” about my financial situation. These are the kind of things that I think we all need to agree that we don’t know how we would feel unless we were actually going through this specific situation.
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Sadly isn't this the case? How many times do,you read a post and shake your head in disbelief xyzcf?
Actually, I shake my head when posters do not seem to understand that there is something really wrong with their loved ones, I shake my head at how so few people are faithful to the sacrament of marriage and I shake my head at children who are being exposed to new partners on both parent's side.
That is however my own personal world view...it's not a surprise to people who have known me for a very long time here.
I however do not have the right to expect that others will share my beliefs, although I am convinced that there would be more reconciliations if people could wait it out..no proof of that but just common sense to me....that if there is nothing to come back to, then that would deter the MLCer from even making an attempt. That if the LBSer is hateful towards their MLCer, common sense tells me that they would not ever wish to return.
That is pretty different from people who feel that they need to feel they are losing us if they ever try and return. One belief really isn't right or wrong...
Yes, let's get back on track by all means.
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I personally have been given advice by well meaning people who have chastised me for my approach to my situation, when their situation is the exact opposite. Specifically, I have been told more than once by more than one LBS who has a financially responsible MLCer That I need to get over my “bitterness” about my financial situation. These are the kind of things that I think we all need to agree that we don’t know how we would feel unless we were actually going through this specific situation.
Nas - If I do not have experience in a specific situation, or if I have the exact opposite situation, I read the thread and respectfully do not comment. I cannot comment - I have no experience to contribute and any post would be meaningless to the LBS.
You will notice that I comment frequently about Vanishers, financial abuse and abandonment of kids. These are my areas of experience....NOT EXPERTISE but experience based on my story.
I think we all have seen comments that we just shake our heads at. Posters medically diagnosing Mlcers with medical conditions and even recently a LBS going through current major reconnection issues a couple of posters questioned the Mlcers sexuality perference - I am sure this knocked the socks off the poor LBS. A poster can offer a suggestion but not be enforceful and show respect and compassion about the situation at hand.
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I guess just reading this thread lately I don't see where "HS" has gone off track. Not at all. Just some "threads" that have gone off track.
The vast majority of the threads on HS are just fine and very supportive of everyone.
Maybe if you find a thread, or a certain poster negative, ignore it/them and find more positives threads to follow.
Lord knows we have enough of them. :)
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This healing process isn't linear, just as the issues facing most LBS aren't static. Any input is good input because I think most of us have on some level dealt with not being heard. If you're reading, if you care - that's good. Of course no advice will be perfect. But I agree that compassionate opinions that don't try to shove advice down someone's throat are good (but I don't think that really happens that often here).
I would say a fair number of us were, or even are, accommodators. AND controllers. So by even holding back here so we don't "rock the boat" or hurt someone's feelings, or present any form of conflict or contrast, just perpetuates something that likely hasn't worked for us. Standing itself, especially with clingers, has a certain amount of accommodation built into it while we detach and allow them to process through whatever is happening with them. I like seeing people find a voice. There's no right or wrong here. And everyone is an adult who can handle way more, I believe, than we give them credit for. I mean...look what we're living through! If someone says something about your spouse or your stand or any choice you make that you don't agree with, it's an opportunity to speak your peace or ignore them. I don't think it's our job to bubble wrap everyone so no one gets offended.
The forum "is what it is" (sorry) because it is a collective. If it's changed, it's just part of how it's evolved. It may not be exactly as I found it almost seven years ago, but there's a lot less desperation, I can tell you that. And that includes me! And I thank this forum for helping with that.
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Absolutely love the bubble wrap analogy and it is perfect for this situation.
I’d also like to suggest that if someone gives someone else advice and you find yourself having an uncomfortable reaction to it, you have been triggered for a reason and it is very good excuse to look within and try to figure out exactly why you were triggered. And I am using the universal “you” here, not speaking to anyone specifically.
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I however do not have the right to expect that others will share my beliefs, although I am convinced that there would be more reconciliations if people could wait it out..no proof of that but just common sense to me....that if there is nothing to come back to, then that would deter the MLCer from even making an attempt. That if the LBSer is hateful towards their MLCer, common sense tells me that they would not ever wish to return.
I have said this before,... Xy, I think you are incredibly strong and I think you are 100% right.
I wasn't strong enough, I couldn't do it. I believed at the time if I shoved in his face that I could move on quickly without him that he would come crawling back with his tail between his legs. I foolishly thought that he would quickly see the errors of his ways and become a better man to win me back.
It doesn't work that way very often, does it?
I now feel if I stayed pleasant and focused on myself, not dating and drawing attention to what I was doing, we most likely would have had a better chance.
But, my journey didn't turn out that way. Instead as soon as I was let out in the world, I realized that there was so much that I hadn't experienced and jumped in with both feet. Our paths went in different directions even further. I truly believe thats why we don't often see many vanisher return stories, it's the LBS. The Leaver is a freakin' mess, lost his high profile job, friends, family, everything he loved. He walked out on me citing he missed a full house. This Thanksgiving it was him, his Mrs-tress and her mother as my son had to leave early. Who knows what my daughter did, all I know is she wasn't with them. We are all separated now, no longer the close family we used to be.
If we still had a home we would have had no less than 20-something people. He knows he can't come back, he made his bed and now that's his life. But me too, I can't go back,.. back to what? Back with his family after all that was said and done on both sides (including me), back with "friends" that back-stabbed me in the worst way? The house is sold, I live in another state, I'm married to another man.
Who knows if it would have been different if I just kept my head down and not said a word to anybody.
It's just not me, couldn't do it and honestly, right now, I'm glad I did it the way I did.
BUT... that's not to say it was the right way, just my way, for me.
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I think you are incredibly strong and I think you are 100% right.
I wasn't strong enough, I couldn't do it. I believed at the time if I shoved in his face that I could move on quickly without him that he would come crawling back with his tail between his legs. I foolishly thought that he would quickly see the errors of his ways and become a better man to win me back.
Dear Nah, you made me smile...but no, I am not "strong"..no more so than any other LBSer I have met. A priest in a class I am taking talked about adultery and what a deep deep wound it is (and not just for the person who had been cheated on but for the person who cheated too)...as I used to scream at the beginning of all this...I did not know what to do with the pain.
I am glad you wrote the above..because often I was told that he really needed to think he had lost me or he'd just continue to "cake eat"......but that isn't a certainty either.
Because the one true thing I do know, this is not about us and not about our marriages.
I have not had more success at reconciliation that others....it's really a crap shot....no rhyme or reason to why they come back.
I have distanced myself from him, don't contact him and have strict boundaries in place now that I did not before...I cannot allow him to hurt me again...the last time really tore me apart and that cannot happen again.....
He's still the clinging boomeranger he's always been (sigh) but regardless of a change in my behaviour, he's still in crisis...no improvement that I can see at all.
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I would love to hear more about what the priest had to say about how adultery leaves lasting wounds on both the betrayer and the betrayed. (That goes against what all of my counselors have ever told me, although I’ve often disagreed with them.)
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I would love to hear more about what the priest had to say about how adultery leaves lasting wounds on both the betrayer and the betrayed. (That goes against what all of my counselors have ever told me, although I’ve often disagreed with them.)
Sorry for the hijack but some people may find this interesting. My own thought is that adultery had pretty much been taboo throughout centuries and in many different cultures and religions throughout the world. Yet it has existed since the beginning of time..the difference being that our society doesn't consider it to be any big deal, let alone a sin.
Many MLCers, my husband included were very clear in their beliefs of remaining faithful to their spouses...the LBSer is really shocked that they would do this. Never ever would I have believed that he would cheat on us.
One speaker in this series I am attending spoke about several hundred years ago, if a man committed adultery and wished to be absolved of his sin, he had to do penance of 2 years living on bread and water alone AND he had to make it right with the one he cheated on...only after 2 years would he be absolved and be allowed to receive the Eucharist once more...it was very clear that he had to make reparation to his wife.
This priest spoke about how God's forgiveness is a given...it is a grace that anyone can receive. Indeed, we don't earn it, God freely forgives us for anything. But, repentance and penance are needed as he said to repair the deep wound that the adultery has caused...to both parties....indeed, a long time ago, when I asked my husband why he could not look me in the eye, he hung his head and repeated "shame, shame, shame".....
Anyway, now remember, this is a Catholic perspective and can only be applied in that context...when you go to the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) IF you are truly sorry for your sins, the priest, in the person of Christ if I understand correctly, absolves you of your sin and gives you a penance to do. If you have hurt someone, you would have to do something to make that right or you cannot be absolved of your sin. Without absolution you are not in a state of grace to receive the Eucharist.The priest talked about repentance and penance in this context and reiterated the deepness of this wound that adultery causes.
Then, this is the part that blew me away, he said that penance can also be done for the one who was wounded by the adultery, given up for the one who committed adultery...that is, I as well can do penance for my husband's salvation..I must say that did not sit well with me since I have enough "pain" in my life to last me a life time...yet the more I think about this, the more it makes sense...for what did Christ do for us?
He, who was without sin, took all our sins and died for us.
I am no "expert" on this. The priest I am taking the classes with actually provides instruction to seminarians on spirituality. It is a 26 week course that has been offered to lay people to deepen our spiritual journey.
A lot of this is foreign to me since I am a convert...but I know that my parents, not Catholic, were very clear about the permanency of marriage, that adultery was wrong, indeed in their world, that premarital sex was wrong.
But we don't want to hear any of this...we have become too modern to "believe" these old fashion ideals.....
Again, for me, the MLCer is in great pain over many many things...in an effort to stop the pain, they "medicate" with anything that will put it out...not realizing at the time what a mess they have made, things they have done that they can never go back and undo..so once again..it makes sense to me that their wound might even be greater than our own.
PS...I am not trying to start a heated argument about these things..you either have these beliefs or you don't.
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Again, for me, the MLCer is in great pain over many many things...in an effort to stop the pain, they "medicate" with anything that will put it out...not realizing at the time what a mess they have made, things they have done that they can never go back and undo..so once again..it makes sense to me that their wound might even be greater than our own.
PS...I am not trying to start a heated argument about these things..you either have these beliefs or you don't.
Thanks for sharing. I too believe that most of our Mlcers endure immense pain and a greater wound than us the LBS - yes they try their best to mask the pain and guilt but they can never run away.
I have said this before,... Xy, I think you are incredibly strong and I think you are 100% right.
I wasn't strong enough, I couldn't do it. I believed at the time if I shoved in his face that I could move on quickly without him that he would come crawling back with his tail between his legs. I foolishly thought that he would quickly see the errors of his ways and become a better man to win me back.
You hear so frequently that the ending of our stories is totally up to the LBS.
We all want the happy ending...either with or without our MLCers...which ever ending is the right direction and choice for us ❤️
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Bren
As it was my post that kicked off this discussion - which had a lot of different points in it - I suppose what I heard you say is a reminder that often the emotions are the same regardless of the details of our situation. And that we should tread carefully with our assumptions and be aware of our own filter. (I hope I don't come across as one of the less construvtivebpeople you were mentioning. My apologies if so, absolutely not my intent)
From my POV, and it is about who I was before this, I found the absolute contempt of being treated as if I had no right to be heard about my own life profoundly damaging. Being ghosted after 20 years aboutbpretty much everything including what I needed to do to get out of the situation was relentlessly frustrating and like a drip, drip message of 'you are not even worth a text message about furniture'. Both practically and emotionally, it was the worst thing for me and I simply could not get it at all. Worse than any of the other betrayals actually. Now perhaps that is bc there were other things I did not experience....watching my children cry or having a monster with the face of my h list my failings. Part of my personal healing is about accepting and dealing with that kind of profound and complete discard to the point of my then h apparently if passively wanting me to die. It certainly made the first few months frightening and bewildering. I am grateful that I never thought it was about me; it was so obviously extreme and about my xh.
There is a profound powerlessness to being ghosted, I think. But my pain is not a competitive sport, not at all, and you're right than one contact type is not worse or better. Just different challenges.
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There is a profound powerlessness to being ghosted, I think. But my pain is not a competitive sport, not at all, and you're right than one contact type is not worse or better. Just different challenges.
Treasur yes things did go southbound after my response to your post 🤔....fortunately the misunderstanding was clarified very promptly.
I have been ghosted by my H of 20 years, partner/best friend of 27 years. Ironically my H has also abandoned/ghosted our 4 children, and his beloved older brother. It just does not make sense at all! No doubt like many, I have witnessed marriages and relationships in destruction mode...the relationship deteriorates over a period of time...everyone notices the downfall....the relationship does not dissolve with a blink of a eye.
Being POWERLESS to rectify the situation is extremely hard and difficult. Yes it is normal for us all to have questions and self doubt. It stings when you hear fabricated stories that have been concocted by our former Spouses and the OP. I understand your almost obsession for your story...your truth. I too feel the same. IMO we do deserve the truth to be told....but I do believe the truth will come out in the end. And as I mentioned in my original reply...the people who count...the people who knew your Husband and you as a couple already know the truth. So maybe it is our obsession to disprove the stories that our Mlcers tell...so maybe our stories aren't warranted?
Have you contemplated writing your story...from start to current...your story is far from over so it will be a work in progress....your "to be continued" with your destined ending. You may find it somewhat therapeutic....even if it is only for your eyes only.
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Thanks, Bren.
To be fair, I do also know that my pain and sense of powerlessness was also exacerbated bc I'd just lost my father and my mother no longer knew who I was. Lots of simultaneous losses and a feeling of being left behind or abandoned, I suppose, reasonable or not. Can't imagine how hard it was for you and your kids too. How are they now?
I have no idea really what stories others have told. I have chosen not to look and bc my xh erased all of his old life, we have no remaining common links. Which is a blessing. Yes, the people who knew us and him were as shocked as I was and that did help me know it wasn't normal or about me. And that I wasn't insane! But of course in RL, while we are still working through it all, people have their own lives and move on.
I know Nah said she worked on her book for quite a few years. I may still be at the stage where I don't want the pain of looking back too much. Idk. And perhaps I haven't yet decided what my truth of those 20 years is. Perhaps the best truth really is how we rebuild and live after this experience.
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Thanks, Bren.
To be fair, I do also know that my pain and sense of powerlessness was also exacerbated bc I'd just lost my father and my mother no longer knew who I was. Lots of simultaneous losses and a feeling of being left behind or abandoned, I suppose, reasonable or not. Can't imagine how hard it was for you and your kids too. How are they now?
Treasur please do me a favour....never disregard your own story as being irrelevant or insignificant to others. Your “LBS” story is never irrelevant! I am so sorry to hear about your parents passing. Talk about a triple whammy...kick a good woman whilst she is down. Please look on the positive side (if you can) on this firetrucked up journey called "life".....with the massive speed bumps we incur, we somehow find out how “VERY” strong we are emotionally. We have ALL been there...ROCK BOTTOM...where you grasp for life with our fingertips. Who are we to judge others? To compare our hurt? To compare our story? What right do we have? You Treasur, are here and magically coping, lookmat what you are going through, yet you display compassion to others. We have all been through hell and are on our way to healing. Your story counts and is “very” significant. We all have a story...each and every single one of us has a significant story which needs to be shared. As we know through previous research that there are limited resources available on MLC.
As I mentioned previously, when I was Bd’ed I researched everything (like us all) everything I could on MLC. I got introduced to Chump Lady...such a toxic bitter woman...but I understand her hurt...we all do! BUT I DON'T want to be like her. I am an extremely compassionate person - even described as living in a fairytale - but that is irrelevant. I will forever put my children’s needs and wants first...am I wrong? I don’t know....but at this point in time they are what matters. I am the only responsible parent they have at this time....and that is what counts. Money is totally irrelevant - yes I am on the verge of bankruptcy....Indid not protect my finances. But I have learnt that material items are irrelevant! What counts is PEOPLLE...my family...my KIDS...and my honesty. Treasur your story is never insignificant....no member on here is...never forget that!
Everything will work itself out in the end....we will all end up where we are supposed to.
Xxx
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I have experience with a MLCer that was both a clinger and a vanisher. With a relative that was a wallower and my own crisis experience.
When it comes to my MLCer and my experience, I prefer a vanisher.
It was impossible to have peace and rest with the clinger version. It is peaceful with the vanisher version. The years with super clinger Mr J were hell, exhauting and did my health no favours.
There is a difference between clingers and vanishers. There is also a difference between a MLCer that was not/is not abusive, and one that is. There is a difference between a MLCer that has OW/OM and one that does not.
My cousin wallower cousin never left, never had OW. He and his wife reconciled. But had he left and had OW his wife would not take him back. Even if he was a wallower, at a point, he was losing it. She went to live with her parents and they only went back to live together long after his Liminality ended.
There is no comparison between my cousin and Mr J. Like there is no comparison between my very mild MLC and Mr J's one.
Out of curiosity, Xyzcf, how long should the LBS "wait it out"? 3 years? 5? 7? 10? 12? More? Leaving marriage sanctity side, not all of us are Catholics or religious, why should we "wait it out"?
I have the opposite feeling from Nah. Had I divorced, cut Mr J off right away and have someone new in my life, things may had been different. May, not they would when it comes to his crisis.
What would had been different, I think, because with a MLCer one never knows, would be the money and several other things fo me.
Mr J got himself trapped into a very specific world that, in my view, allows for a MLC to last, if not forever, almost for ever. In the clubbing/djing world, no one cares if you drink to the point of passing out, if you barely sleep, if you're almost 50 and still pulling all nighters, let alone who sleeps with whom.
It is constant party and no consequences, other than those to the person'e health. But even those don't seem to matter much.
As for the MLCe's pain. It may exist. But MLC does not help their pain, it only makes things worst and causes even more pain. To the MLCer, their spouse, children, etc. MLCers do not work on issues while in Replay and with Replay comes big damage.
I didn't research anything at BD. I had no clue what was going on, just that is was not normal. Only a while later a friend who had MLC mentioned it was probably a depression that may involve an identity crisis - I never heard a real life MLCer say they had a MLC. MLC to be was a red sports car, a 20 years old blond and it lasted 6 months.
After friend mentioned it, I thought of Jung, whose theory I knew. All that was before HS existed. Years later I come to HS by googling Jung + MLC. But since I come to conclude that, for the most part, Jung only wanted a free pass to his lifestyle, wife and OW. Which he got, with no Fuss from Emma, since she always knew he had married her for money - she was the second richest Swiss heiress. Emma never expected failthfulness from Carl.
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I had a clinger to vanisher. I agree the clinger was worse for me. I much prefer the vanisher in some respects mainly as my children and I function better as a family unit and I don’t get monster. Every time h pops his head up which he currently has, I feel all hell breaks loose in my home which it has again.
My h still controls our lives even from a distance when he is in contact with the children.
The children and I went to family counselling today. We have invited h but he won’t engage. It was brutal for me. Basically it came out that my h and s15 are the persecution as s15 is a mini h and my daughter feels she is the rescuer and the children see me as the victim. They see themselves as the victims as well as other aspects but I am just a victim while h is in contact.
I found it interesting that she said to my daughter write your families names on these pieces of paper and she wrote s15 name, her own name and mum but when it came to dad she put our father as dad is apparently reserved for a father that cares.
Do I feel I have said my truths? No I don’t. Do I feel I need to say them? Yes I do at some point but now is not the time while my children struggle. I have no idea when I can release my frustration as that is what I feel it is. I will have to wait and see when or if that will be possible. Xx
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Anjae and others, I need to clarify this statement:
Out of curiosity, Xyzcf, how long should the LBS "wait it out"? 3 years? 5? 7? 10? 12? More? Leaving marriage sanctity side, not all of us are Catholics or religious, why should we "wait it out"?
In no way do I feel that if you wait long enough, somehow, that will mean they will come back. RCR had addressed that in her articles. But many have expressed over the years, the the LBS has the last say. It is possible, in my mind anyway, that should the LBSer be in another relationship or married, the MLCer might feel that all doors are closed to them...again, there is no proof in that and it is every bit as possible that it wouldn't matter.
So, I don't see length of time in years but rather I think that many people get to a point where they are done and reconciliation is not possible because the LBSer doesn't want it.
Often, on HS, I hear that we "deserve" to find someone else, we are wasting our lives because we don't have someone to love and be loved by. Personally, that doesn't fit my paradigm, especially because I have never stopped loving my husband. Again, that is not true for others but it is for some.
My MLCer is a clinging boomeranger. It is both a blessing and a curse. I do occasional get to see the cracks, the bizzareness, the strangeness but it also keeps me off balance because he also appears very normal at times. In some ways, if I could erase him from my thoughts and heart, life might be more peaceful and easier but I actually know, that for me to be "healed" I need to resolve how I feel and how I respond to his contact.
Indeed, since I believe there is something really wrong with them, it is like dealing with someone who has a "mental health" problem...just when you think that what they are doing makes "sense", they upset the applecart by going in a different direction than what you anticipated..it unhinges me. At this point in time, it is the becoming unhinged that concerns me.
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XYZ
I agree with everything you said.
It's different for everybody. When we feel it's done, it's done. 1 year or 10. Doesn't matter.
If we lose our live for our spouse, well I don't think we could put enough into it to make it work.
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I think some people on this site are young and have kids and maybe that may be a determining factor for some of them.
Every situation is so very different.
I felt very different after my first divorce, at 35, then I did after the second one, at 63.
My priorities were different.
All you can do is do what is best for you and your situation. We support your choice to stand or not stand. We're not here to judge. :)
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Thank you for clarifying, Xyzcf.
I am not certain if the LBS being in a new relationship or marriage, or no longer wanting the MLCer back, stops the MLCer from trying to be back.
Real life MLCers I know, and there HS cases as well, thing Sewing22 who had her own crisis, try to get back even if the LBS is in a new relationship or marriage. It will be the LBS that will not take the MCLer back, not the MLCer who will not try to return.
Even MLCers who were physically abusive, like LP's husband, once out of the fog try to get back with the LBS. LP wants nothing to do with him. Or last time she posted about the matter, she didn't.
So, yes, the final choice is up to the LBS. The MLCer may want back, but if the LBS does not take them back, there will be no reconnection.
I don't think someone is wasting their life because they don't have someone in their life. It is up to each of us to decide what we want. I also don't mind if a LBS decides to have a new relationship or marriage.
I agree that jumping into a new relationship or marriage after BD, or until we aren't in a good place, is not a good idea. Even in a normal divorce it is not a good idea to quickly jump into a new relationship.
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Arguing is not helpful. If you don't like what a poster has posted, why not just ignore it? Everyone is entitled to an opinion and oftentimes too many people are adding fuel to the fire.
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What is happening on the forum lately? As far as I know, Mercury in retrograde ended yesterday. 😂
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What is happening on the forum lately? As far as I know, Mercury in retrograde ended yesterday. 😂
Nothing out of the ordinary. Those who aren't familiar with HS from the start, or almost from the start, don't know how it was when Stayed, Lawprofessor and LisaLives, among others, were around.
This is a nothing compared with those times. Things were far more heated and extreme by then and not until that long ago.
Now only I and In It are a bit toughter. Compared with Stayed, Lawprofessor, LisaLives and some others who used to be around I'm a softie.
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I don’t have a problem with heated discussion. What I’m noticing is different lately is people getting upset just from having to hear differing opinions. Isn’t that what the entire purpose of this forum is, a place for people to share their differing opinions and ideas and experiences? At least that is my definition of a support forum, and I suspect it is what most people also believe.
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I don’t have a problem with heated discussion. What I’m noticing is different lately is people getting upset just from having to hear differing opinions.
That always happened. HS has phases/ups and downs. Much like a MLCer. ;) ;D
Isn’t that what the entire purpose of this forum is, a place for people to share their differing opinions and ideas and experiences?
It is.
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But a long long time ago, when none of us really knew much about MLC and were so devastated by the shock of what had happened to us...the site was much more "kumbaya-ish" .Our members are much more diversified now and at a wide range of timeframes.
When I read RCR's words that MLC could last 2-3 years I literally screamed "I cannot last 2 years!"....opps, guess I was wrong about that. :P
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When I read RCR's words that MLC could last 2-3 years I literally screamed "I cannot last 2 years!"....opps, guess I was wrong about that. :P
In 2013 RCR changed it for 2-7 years. "The range we use is 2-7 years" https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/midlife-crisis-and-infidelity/time-and-expectations/, June 30, 2013.
We now know 7 years still doesn't cover it. And if it last 2 years or less it is most likely a midlife transition. Or a very mild MLC.
It is true long ago none of us knew much about MLC. As time went by, we learned a lot and saw things happen that we never thought were possible.
Like a MLCer divorcing the LBS 9 years down the road, like Xyzcf's husband did. Who does that? Why divorce 9 years down the road.
If we were still using 2-3 years, xyzcf's husband and her should had been reconciled for 6 years. And Mr J and Trusandlove's husband would had been out of crisis for many, many years. Not happening.
For anyone who doubts that all scenaries and outcomes are valid:
"Choosing to stop Standing is not failure.
Choosing to seek a new relationship with a new person is not failure.
Choosing to Stand as a Covenant Keeper even if your spouse does not return is not failure.
Success comes in many varieties." from https://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/standing-and-divorce/hope-expectations-probability-part-i/ , March 26, 2012.
It has long been known that there are different outcomes and that none is a failure and that what one LBS decides is not more or less valid than what another LBS decides.
I miss DGU - now, there is a Vanisher if I ever knew one ;) :)- he has photographic memory and is able to quote all the articles, blog posts, etc. without searching.
This recent idea that some have that, somehow, things haven't long been discussed and RCR hasn't wrote about them is baffling.
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I enjoy the discussion but what does it have to do with Vanishers?
Isn't that what this thread/threads were all about?
Maybe we should get back to those who started this thread to talk about their Vanisher's experiences. :)
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I enjoy the discussion but what does it have to do with Vanishers?
Nothing. Things got derailed, as they often do.
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I think we are back to a vanisher as did not arrange to pick the kids up at the weekend and had better things to do on the Saturday than see his kids so the kids didn’t reply as nothing really to reply to. He didn’t give a time or any other arrangements. Sunday he texts “ no answer!” He literally text those words!! The kids certainly didn’t answer that! Unbelievable.
Not see. Then in over 2 wks and the same pattern as May and June is 3 to 4 wks h starts
cutting back on contact then at 6 wks vanishes. We are at 6 wks of contact. H will be sulking as kids didn’t chase hi and pander to him so he will vanish again. Sad thing is he won’t even see what he has done wrong and it will be the kids fault which then is ultimately my fault as will be something along the lines of how I am raising the kids.
I didn’t contact h re the weekend or re kids. I kept nc. I had to text today re school meeting as advised by our support worker. All I text was “ school meeting at 2pm if you wish to attend. He read but did not reply and did not attend. Never does. Xx
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Yes I’d love to get back to more Vanisher centric info and updates on this thread - it used to be one of my go to threads being the LBS if a true Vanisher.
Update from me: 2 years and 4 months since BD and XH leaving, Divirce finalised in May this year and all is silent. I don’t hear anything other than the odd bit of info very occasionally through a partner of one of his friends. I don’t socialise in his circle anymore so he really has vanished out of my life. Although he lives in a nearby town with OW and their now 10 month old baby (yes OW did the classic get herself pregnant). I guess what I do know is that the Vanisher is very much still in what we would call ‘replay’ effectively living like a single man, out working, doing drugs and drinking / he developed quite an issue with cocaine from what I know.. I have seen the occasional pic via a friend - the dead eyes are still there, like really there so it’s very weird. I know he is moving in to a big renovation property with his parents, OW and baby - his parents are part funding it selling up their place to do so. It’s just weird. I know that the OW was made to sign legal papers so that she can’t take anything from the property and that she is still very much copying me - renovating the house like I did mine even down to seeking out the same carpenter who did my kitchen. Again weird. It’s like she’s creating a version of my old life - he must think it’s weird to (but of course will just go along with whatever as a classic conflict avoider)
When it comes to further down the line and do I think I will hear from my xH again? I don’t know, he really is the cowardlest person ever, he just disappeared and dropped his old life one day and has I think ended up in another one by accident, I think he wa scarified away with the tide and in too deep.. I’m not interested in reconciling, I would like my vindication, to know that he messed up and is regretful, that would be THE best day. But I’m not sure I will ever hear it. I used to be a hardcore stander, forgiving and adamant I would keep standing. But it’s very hard to love someone who has done the cruelest thing ever. And I see so mich how he wasn’t good for me I need and deserve more than he could ever give. Any happy memories he destroyed. So no I don’t want him back, I’m still hurt and still sad about what was lost but there’s no going back from that. And I have moved on anyway. I have a new partner, we have been together over a year now. I didn’t think I would ever be able to love fully again that there would always be a piece of me hardened and incapable of softening but I’m getting there. To this day I’m still amazed that I found someone new - I was THE most against it ever and in one night that completely changed so now I know to keep an open mind as anything can happen!
I’m still fascinated by the psychology of it all, still need so many whys answered but then I am the sort of person who likes to understand and have answers yet I know there’s so many things I’m never likely to get answers on. I trust the process and the script to a degree but I guess until you start to see things in your own story or journey it’s hard to fully trust it. And for those of us with vanishers looooong periods of time will pass before we see anything. My guess is I’m right in the middle of a very long period or phase where not much will change or happen but if and when it does I will update!
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When it comes to further down the line and do I think I will hear from my xH again? I don’t know, he really is the cowardlest person ever, he just disappeared and dropped his old life one day and has I think ended up in another one by accident, I think he wa scarified away with the tide and in too deep.. I’m not interested in reconciling, I would like my vindication, to know that he messed up and is regretful, that would be THE best day.
Yes, it would, wouldn't it?
We have a unique 'gift' with vanishers. Since we never see them, we get to fantasize what it will be like if we do have that conversation that we crave.
So how do we want that conversation to go? Do we want to sit with our heads down while he recounts years with someone else while we hoped for his return? Are we hoping for his gratitude that we so patiently, lovingly, dutifully waited for our one great love?
Firetruck that...
I was one of the lucky ones that, well kinda-sorta, had that conversation.
We had to meet about finances about 3 years after he left b/c he lost his job (meaning... life going down toilet)...
We really hadn't talked since he walked out the door, very few conversations and Hell no, nothing about relationship. I had zero expectations, maybe a few crumbs if I was lucky.
Let's face it, we were each other's entire life for 30 years, friends, family, acquaintances, it was so easy to start talking about other things then relationship and/or finances and we did...
He opened up about "obsessing" about drinking (he is/was a sober alcoholic), he confessed about trying "edibles' (at first I thought he meant underwear, he meant marijuana...lol),... he just lost his job AND he needed a hip replacement.
Whew... not exactly Mr. Living the Dream, now was he?
So, when he mentioned "edibles"... (and I thought he meant underwear), I mentioned I was in the mile high club...
omg, his face!! ;D ;D
He mentioned how my company was expanding (stalk much?),... I shrugged my shoulder and mentioned a few very impressive opportunities. He mentioned the house (now mine, not his) and the impressive renovations (again, stalk much?)...
He mentioned how he didn't like the alimony was going towards me taking my boyfriends (he dragged out the pronunciation of 'S'... ;D ;D ) on vacations... lol, I loved this most of all, (again, stalk much?).... I said, hey, I can do whatever I please with MY money and then recounted just a few of the places I had been.
There was more, but you get the idea.
The conversation became all about ME and MY amazing life. The same life that I thought was over when he walked out the door. Who cares if he so very 'sorry'? Let's face it, if we hear those words, would we believe them? They have been full of sh!t for years, why would we believe anything they say?
So, if you are fantasizing about THAT conversation, fantasize what YOU can say.
Live such an amazing life that he will be stuck standing there with his mouth gaped open while he realizes that he walked away from an opportunity to be part of something great.
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That is really how to have a conversation with our mlcer nah. I will remember that if I ever get to that conversation.
I am in a strong place at the moment even with all that is going on with my children. H doesn’t want to engage with support workers or school, fine, I will do on my own as I already have been. H doesn’t want to arrange child access and still just wants to fit them in when he feels like it? No sorry, not how this works any more.
H wants to ignore any messages re meetings or visitation. Apparently he is not rising to it! I call it avoiding! That’s ok, I will inform him and what he does with the information is up to him. H has really made himself look a fool and backed up everything I have said he does and doesn’t do to the support worker as he won’t engage with her either. Ow states parental alienation! Keep living in fantasy my dear. H has been offered that much visitation but doesn’t bother. H is about to lose the last shred of his previous life. His children. I used to be sad that he would miss further school plays and school prom, lost teeth even but now I just think, well h has missed all the best bits and it’s his loss. I’m not tolerating his behaviour any longer.
I don’t need to tolerate monster tantrum or sit and wait for him to contact our children or even turn up and so I won’t tolerate it. H hates me saying no!
H once text that he would be unable to move home on this particular day as sh&t hit the fan apparently and not to be upset as can’t be helped but would be home within the next two weeks and was that ok? I replied NO! H replied what do you mean NO! Exactly what I said NO! H cut contact at my NO. H cuts contact at anything he doesn’t like to hear.
Onwards and up wards xx
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Although he lives in a nearby town with OW and their now 10 month old baby (yes OW did the classic get herself pregnant). I guess what I do know is that the Vanisher is very much still in what we would call ‘replay’ effectively living like a single man, out working, doing drugs and drinking / he developed quite an issue with cocaine from what I know.. I have seen the occasional pic via a friend - the dead eyes are still there, like really there so it’s very weird.
I'm sorry, Sparkle. Yours really got himself into a huge mess.
The dead eyes ... Mr J has had dead eyes for nearly 10 years and his left eye is literraly almost closed. We have been living away from each other for more than 11 years, I get to see pictures at times. We more or less move in similar worlds, but not exactly the same. I saw him by chance here, while out with friends in January. He didn't look good.
To this day I’m still amazed that I found someone new - I was THE most against it ever and in one night that completely changed so now I know to keep an open mind as anything can happen!
I'm glad you found someone new and are able to love again.
At times, early on, a LBS will be very sure they will stand forever and that they are against having someone else. Then MCL keeps carry on with all its destruction and life happens to the LBS.
I trust the process and the script. But know a few MLCers never come out of the tunner, most do, and that there will not be many reconciliations because the LBS had moved on.
I don’t need to tolerate monster tantrum or sit and wait for him to contact our children or even turn up and so I won’t tolerate it. H hates me saying no!
No, you don't. It is his problem he doesn't like you saying no.
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Ugh... that extra layer of dealing with a vanisher when you have young kids.
No, we can't control their actions, and yes, the kids suffer.
BUT... here's your opportunity to show them what a strong person you can be... I didn't do a great job of this in the early days, but I did get better over time.
I have a very close relationship with my son but my daughter decided that she would follow The Leaver's footsteps. So what do I do? Same thing, I just live the best life I can live and hope that maybe she will catch up some day. If she doesn't well, it's her loss. This Christmas Eve I'm spending with her brother (my son), her aging grandmother (my mother) and all her favorite cousins, and her favorite cousin just had a baby. Where will daughter be? Well, she didn't spend Thanksgiving with my side of the family, AND she didn't spend it with her father either,... falling out? Who knows? Not my circus.
Who is she punishing?
Same thing with you RP, who is he punishing? Your kids have you, if he doesn't want to be a part of the family that the two of you made, he is most definitely the loser.
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They're all losers, in different ways.
I posted these on the articles to share thread, but they apply here because we often question if our vanishers ever think of us.
These seem to point to the conclusion that if they are suppressing the guilt and thoughts of us, it will surely come out in other ways, but it's not really possible for them to completely "erase" us.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dream-factory/201511/why-unwanted-thoughts-can-invade-your-dreams?amp
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experimentations/201801/how-suppressed-emotions-enter-our-dreams-and-affect-health?amp
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Interesting articles, Nas.
This stood out to me "We can suppress, medicate and ignore our dreams, but when we do so we may be risking missing out on ultimately necessary and catalytic experiences required at times for personal development."
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I'm very interested in the dream connection. I had very vivid dreams the night before BD about my X doing bad things to me. They were almost perfectly analogous to what happened. I again had a dream recently that my X was acting nice then turned evil and tried to push me off a cliff. It was like she was drawing me back in to try to eliminate or destroy me completely. The crazy thing was she was trying to be nice thru text for a bit then went Monster and informed me she was remarried. Most of my dreams have been good predictors of what was about to happen. Once again though my experience doesn't mean the MLC'r is having any of the same issues. I know she has had difficulty with what she's done and felt intense guilt at times because she told me so with out me asking. I would hope she has trouble sleeping given what she did.
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Yep h back to vanished, I’ve been blocked. When tried to inform him of family counselling meeting. Truth darts hurt and then h has a tantrum and vanished again. Another xmas without even a text to his kids. I can predict it! Xx
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Some great comments Nah, Anjae and really interesting articles Nas.
Nah - I LOVE the framing of how WE would talk about all the wonderful things WE have been doing. I don’t care for his guilt, I wouldn’t indulge it. His choices so he can own them and any guilt that comes with them. What’s done is done and it can’t ever be undone. Even if I never have that conversation to hear on the grapevine that the house of cards came tumbling down would be enough. But I won’t waste any time waiting for it in any case I’ve learnt enough to know that that desire will probably fade any way. I have learnt through this process to trust that time really does heal, that I’m stronger than I would ever have imagined and that I value myself so much more now. That took some work but it’s the most valuable thing an LBS can do. We are lucky that we have the space to do that with a vanisher...
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It's been eight years no contact for me. I rarely see my children as they only visit for their christmas presents, that's what kills me the most about this mess.if they were miles away I could understand but they only live a mile away and can drive. I was a happy content husband and father with a bright future for us all.Now everything's fragmented and dysfunctional.
Jack
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Thank you, Jack.
We don't hear from male LBS with a Vanisher MLCer.
Do you know why the children only come by for Christmas presents?
It must be very tought to have living only a mile away and never visiting.
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My vanisher jack lives 4 minutes away by car but I have the children. Is it the children’s choice to only visit at xmas? Who drives, the children themselves? Xx
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Jack,
You're not alone.
Sometimes I couldn't help but wonder if I did something wrong. It doesn't help that other people don't really get that sometimes the children can also turn their backs on the LBS. People ask me all the time, "how's daughter,... why doesn't daughter speak to you?".... Honestly, if it were someone else, I probably would also wonder if maybe the LBS did something to deserve this treatment if not only the MLCer but ALSO a daughter or son decided to turn their backs.
Now that time has passed... I know in my heart I was a good mother. My mother agrees (she lived with us), my siblings agree, my nieces and nephews who were at my house all the time agree... It just doesn't make sense. Why would a son and/or daughter ditch the parent that was abused, betrayed and abandoned?
Well, she did.
Her justification? I was "mean"... :o. I was mean because I had expectations of her cleaning up after herself, getting her homework done, speak to her parents and grandmother with a normal tone of voice. I spoke up when she yelled at her 75 yr old grandmother, or left a mess for days in the kitchen, or used my debit card without permission... that's why I was "mean"?
Loads of articles of "toxic parents", those articles piss me off. Is it possible that the adult child is selfish, spoiled, unaccountable for their own actions? Where are those articles? Is it possible that the parent did everything they could but was alienated by the other selfish parent?
Sometimes it's not only the parent that is a "vanisher", and just like the LBS of a vanisher, it's not always the LBSes fault when an adult child "vanishes".
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Thank you Anjae, I think they see me now as being ill and frail and not the Alpha male I used to be. Their protector and provider when they were younger. I love all my children but little girls are special to Daddy.
Unfortunately my coward of an MLC ex wife used the children while carrying on as cover, she used to take the girls with her as if going to an event, swimming,shopping, etc. She used them as pawns in her sick drama filled story book romances.
The mixed messages the children must have had to justify her behaviour at the time no doubt have contributed to their confusion during the separation and divorce. I can remember talking to my youngest daughter who was 17 at bomb drop in November 14th 2011 about divorcing and future christmases and she said "goody two lots of presents for us". Can you imagine how I felt at this time when I was hurting badly.
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Rising Phoenix, they can drive and the youngest has her own car. She promises to come up but doesn't and I've learned that words without actions are the sign of someone who is disengenuous. My son has a car but he lives 18 miles away so being busy working during the week in the city I can understand him valuing his free time. Boys are a bit more insular like that I think anyway, where as girls are normally more family and socially active, but not in my case.
Jack
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I see you're a Class of 2011 too, Jack. My be was January of 2011. There were sure a lot of us. We decided there was something in the air that year, or the water. :)
I'm sure that is very painful for you to have some of your kids so close and not make the effort, I'm really sorry.
It's awful how these MLCer's munipulate their own children.
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Yep Thunder, 2011 is etched in my sub conscious for eternity. I’ve slowly got used to their lack of interest in me. I’ve made a special tea for them on numerous occasions and thrown it away as the girls never turned up as arranged or called to cancel. I’m sure it was a form of torture and it worked I can tell you. If my foot heals up so I can drive again I can go to see them as it stands I’ve been in a plaster cast for a year and four months and I can’t see it coming off soon. I need to rest every thirty minutes as the pain is to much to bear at times.
Jack
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Nah, I hear you loud and clear and I blamed myself at first too. And your right people will talk and say there’s two sides to a story. Normally who’s shovelling the most muck wins similar to politics. Time and our behaviour patterns in comparison to others helps us back on our feet and family and friends reinforce our beliefs in ourselves and parenting capabilities.
You did right by correcting your daughter a firm hand now will pave the way for her future. The elderly must always be respected and raised voices only stir up disention amount others. Does she live with her Father?
I know from experience the Mlcer can poison the children against the innocent spouse by highlighting trivialities. It looks like this has happened with your daughter. Couple this with lack of respect for others and you have a long challenge on your hands trying to rectify the situation. Can you get her to counselling and what age is your daughter?
Jack
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My daughter is 28.
I have zero influence now as she has been out of my life for about four years now.
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Same here nah, it’s ripped me apart and in some ways desensitised me. Family was everything to me and now it’s all gone. I don’t know if your like me but I haven’t got the inclination or energy to start over anymore. I tried at first but reverted back to being alone. It’s silly but I still feel married to the memory of my beloved wife and meeting someone new feels like I’m betraying that memory. I’m guess I’m old fashioned in my ways and destined for singledom as it’s a safer bet.
Jack
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Thank you Anjae, I think they see me now as being ill and frail and not the Alpha male I used to be. Their protector and provider when they were younger. I love all my children but little girls are special to Daddy.
Jackolar,
As the mother of three children who are young adults, I can attest that little girls are special to daddy - it was a great joy for me to learn (24 years ago) that I was pregnant with a girl because I knew she could be very special to my husband.
I was my daddy's girl to the very end - it is less than two years that I lost mine. We had a bond like no other. :'(
My d23 is a feisty, beautiful, strong willed girl - independent and hard working like her mother ;), loves her dad deeply, doesn't take too nicely to her father having an ow and a "step" daughter. She just sails on and ignores them, lol. She funded and took both her licenses at the same time - she is licensed to drive a car and a motorcycle, as she can't afford a car, she drives her father's cast off motorcycle - she and I muddle through the repairs when we can but she calls her dad when things get too difficult (I don't think ow appreciates that very much ;D)
Do you really think that your perceived frailty is what keeps them away? - perhaps you could find something in common to draw them to you.
I was never estranged from my dad, yet he made a constant effort to be interested in all that I was - he would buy me books that he knew I would enjoy, he knew when I needed financial shoring up, he told me I was beautiful, well into my fifties when I was feeling rejected and unlovely, he enjoyed the music I enjoyed (or maybe, he introduced me to music he enjoyed?), he was a father to my husband, a guide in the dark nights of my soul - he would write me e-mails, telling me he was praying for me and my beloved. These were ways my dad loved me well!
Pray for your children always - they will benefit from your prayers
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You're welcome, Jack.
I am not sure I understand why now that you're frail the children avoid you. They are adults. People age, frailness and illness come. But it is complicated for me to understand because my dad died of a degenerative disease 12 years ago, days after BD. Several of my siblings, all younger than myself, looked after him.
About a year after I was back home I started looking after my maternal grandmother and did until she died eight years and a few months lates, including when she no longer had moviment and was tube feed - I tube feed her, changed her, clean her, etc. She raised me.
I am used to people becoming frail and not to get away because of it. But that is me and it may be very different for others.
Can you imagine how I felt at this time when I was hurting badly.
I can.
I end up not having a family of my own. Mr J left when we had decided to have children. I was 37 at the time, so not much time to give it a start. I could had got pregnant from someone, not an hard thing to do, but that was not what I wanted. I wanted a husband and family.
MLCers can totally ruin lives, theirs and others.
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Hi Mitzpah, I think the children are hurt and embarrassed by their involvement and the guilt is too much to bear seeing me not well. They have said their mother broke a sacred vow, they have said their mother said I was a good man. The conflicting right and wrong messages they have endured has no doubt traumatised them and robbed them of normality. Time and probably other girls have said how they love their fathers and I think they can see the error of their involvement.
My oldest daughter who is 27 has started to crumble emotionally and has been diagnosed with social anxiety she was picked up by the police after escaping from an ambulance.She knocked the door of a complete stranger and said she was sent there to save the world. The stranger could see she wasn’t well and called the ambulance. She’s due to have therapy when she’s allocated a slot by our nhs service I told her to ask for Edmr therapy. I’ve offered to pay privately for her and I heard no more from her. I personally think she’s been misdiagnosed and has quiet border line personality disorder but no ones going to listen to me.
The domino effect has seen both my former in laws perish. I myself believe the high level of cortisol through stress in my system for years has brought me to my knees. No one wins in MLC no one....
Jack
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Hi Anjae, take a look at my post to Mitzpah for my thoughts on the girls behaviour. I can see you’ve been a good caring woman and life has dealt you some bad cards. I sincerely hope your future will be brighter and you will find someone who deserves your love. You have good solid morals and are kind and caring to others and that’s are rare commodity in this day and age.
Jack
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I'm so sorry about the situation with your kids, Jack.
Yes, mLC has big ripples and I'm sure you're right that no one wins at all. Even though I loved my h, I tried very hard to respond to his wish for a divorce in a way which reduced the drama and cost for both of us. Over and over for about 18 months. Never succeeded once; he was too determined to do it in an MLC way and I couldn't change that. Made no sense at all even for him rationally. So, even if he is happy with ow who is now his wife and his new life, it cost him thousands, 2 years at least of psychiatric care and every friend and every bit of 20 years of his previous life. (And not to mention me, of course, a rather fab, faithful loving w and 20 years of shared memories and friendship). Ow really needs to do handsprings and magic tricks for 20 years to make that worthwhile from what I can see lol.
It is one of the frustrating things as an LBS that we see the ripples, but it often seems as if we are the only one that does. Or the only one that cares about them perhaps.
I do hope your daughter gets the help she needs. EMDR is a marvellous treatment...extraordinary...but it sounds as if she might need some other kind of treatment first as her behaviour is quite extreme from what you describe. And i suspect other mental health problems would get in the way of EMDR perhaps.
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She’s had the one psychotic episode so if no more happens edmr might be ok. Trauma counselling I suggested but she’s gone quiet again and didn’t turn up to day for her presents, and hasn’t replied to my texts in weeks. She’s a very sensitive arty and creative girl who can get extremely emotional at times.
I think her mums undiagnosed quiet borderline personality type. The quiet bpd acts inwards instead of outwards and if I’m right it could be hereditary. She hasn’t had the save the world thing anymore as far as I know, but her mum might want me to be kept out of the loop and could be why she’s not replying to my texts, calls and emails right now. There are other things she told me that worry me but that’s another issue and you probably wouldn’t believe me if I shared it so I best consign that to the X files for now.
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No one changes unless they want to.
Not if you beg them.
Not if you shame them.
Not if you use reason, emotion, or tough love.
There's only one thing that makes someone change: their own realisation that they need to do it.
And there's only one time it will happen: when they decide they're ready
I came across this quote this morning and it resonates to a Mlcer. This is the absolute truth! Don't ever think you can love someone enough to make them change their toxic soul destroying behaviour. You will be sorely disappointed. I realised I could only change myself. Work on myself. Yes some deep soul searching to figure out why I allowed myself and our children, to be deeply hurt over and over again. Why I allowed my precious children to live in chaos and drama. I am still a work in progress after four years. I still have no answers...but my children and I move forward every day....if people are meant to be in our live they will be. That is out of our control.
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No one changes unless they want to.
There's only one thing that makes someone change: their own realisation that they need to do it.
And there's only one time it will happen: when they decide they're ready
Yep. What we do or don't do will not change the MLCer. And we can't control them. They also can't control us, not matter how much they try.
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My Exh and I have been divorced since Feb ‘16. Haven’t seen each other since then either. BD was May ‘14. I miss him everyday but when he was done it’s like he flipped a switch and never gave me another glance. Maybe it shouldn’t have been a shock but I was completely blindsided.
Since we separated he’s initiated contact maybe 5 times and all of those were just to take care of business. I’m sure I did everything wrong when it first happened. I just was so unprepared. There was an OW but he denied it over and over. There were blocked calls on our bill and I noticed the extra attention she gave him on Facebook but when I asked him why he just said “I can’t control what people write one Facebook”. I don’t know it was an MLC or just him falling out of love anymore.
I’ve followed this thread for a while but have never posted anything. One of my family members told me that they got engaged on Christmas and I’m feeling abandoned and replaced all over again. We’d known each other since we were children, dated after I finished college and were married for 12 yrs. I miss him, his family and my life. He went from being kind to me to baiting me into fights and picking on me in front of family and friends
I struggle to understand how someone just walks away without a care and never looks back. The only conclusion I can come to is that I must have been horrible for him to have to cut me off the way he did. Within the first few months if I initiated contact he acted like I was some old coworker he’d lost touch with. “Heeey!!!” which made me feel like “was i the crazy one? is this how we pretend everything is fine while you divorce me ?”
As the site suggested I tried to match his communication style so that meant we never spoke. (We don’t have children) The week he told me he couldn’t do this anymore and wanted me to leave he posted a picture on Facebook of his beer and cigar with text reading “life is good!!!!” I thought to myself. “What the hell”. It’s been years and I still feel run over. I know I wasn’t perfect but like I said, I can’t imagine someone having to leave this way unless their spouse was unbearable. Now he’s asked her to marry him.
The replacement is complete. She’s successful, his age and seems like a nice person. She knew he was married but then again I found out later he had been telling friends all kinds of things about me. True and untrue before I knew anything was wrong. So who knows what he told her. I guess my point is that this situation never seems to stop hurting. I try to stay busy and not focus on him, especially since he’s never shown any kind of interest in me again. But stuff like this just brings it all up again and I feel like I haven’t healed at all. Trusting anyone again seems unimaginable. I didn’t want to divorce but I didn’t get a choice. He filed then sat on it until the judge ordered mandatory mediation. He knew I didn’t want it and I loved him but none of that mattered to him. So here I am. Sad all over again.
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Free....part of the trauma of this is much of what you describe, that it makes no sense and is a bit of a life mindf**k.
Here is what I'd like you to consider though.
1. Unless everyone here was also an unbearable hideous spouse, rationally it is more likely that it isn't about us at all.
2. Emotionally healthy humans don't end long marriages like a teenager ends a hookup, even if they fall out of love. They talk and feel bad and try to behave with respect and accept that it is painful for their spouse. And they don't file and then do nothing and play stupid baiting divorce games either.
3. People who have affairs lie, of course they do, but 'normal' lies die down after the need to lie goes. Emotionally unhealthy people keep going, lying like children about ridiculous things. Lies turn into gaslighting and that is when you start to doubt your own sanity bc they swear up is down.
4. Any ow who has an affair and then plans to marry someone who can treat his first marriage this way is almost always not an emotionally healthy person either. They are an affair down bc you and me and the other fine quality women here wouldn't find that acceptable in a future h. Doesn't matter how pretty or smart or professional they seem. Broken attracts broken. Trees hide in a forest.
5 of course you feel run over....welcome to the gang...your job now is to figure out how to heal and rebuild from this terrible insane hell that happened in your life and that made someone you loved turn into an unrecognisable monster. The first step in that is to say - no matter your faults because none of us were perfect - that this was an insane disordered way to end a marriage and that is about him, not you. That you did not break him, you can't fix him but you can fix you by refusing to be mindf**ked and refusing to take the blame or responsibility for things that don't belong to you.
If you check out some of the stories here, you will see that recovering often means recognising that you might have some level of PTSD and need some support with that as you restore some sanity to your life. I have been doing EMDR and it has made a huge difference to me.
And maybe think about starting your own thread, Free, so people can support you more personally. There are good people here who have walked in your shoes and stumbled up and through it.
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Treasur, Thank you for taking the time to respond. Ive gotten so used to keeping my feelings to myself because, in the past, if I ever talked about how I felt or what I experienced most people just say something along the lines “there’s always one person who doesn’t want it to end”. And then I end up feeling like a failure at moving on.
Your description of things is really helping. I’ve thought all these things before but when people look at me like I’m crazy for not understanding what went wrong or how a marriage could end this way again I question my own sanity. . Some friends have left me altogether and are supportive of his new relationship which also makes me question what I think happened.
I will definitely consider your advice. I don’t know what EMDR stands for but if you let me know I’ll look into it.
Thank You Again
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Free, as treasur says also consider a thread of your own as well as here. Also comment on other lbs threads. You are not alone. I hope you have had a chance to read the articles and guides available as they are so informative. I regularly return to re read.
Unfortunately people choose sides and not always the right side. If our h can lie to us and family including children then they can certainly lie to friends. Some lbs have also lost children who have sided with the mlcer. It is so difficult for children and family to understand or to have to choose a side. In the end they have lost out on a loving soul. After such a long time together, infidelity and betrayal and loss is one of the hardest things to deal with and each person moves on in their own time. I recently read there is such a thing as post traumatic infidelity syndrome. It basically is ptsd. As treasur says some form of counselling may be helpful. ptsd can be so debilitating which a lot of us lbs have been so drastically affected by at no fault of our own. Recognising it and seeking assistance I believe shows great strength.
Be kind to yourself and know you are in the right place to discuss your feelings with other lbs who have walked this most difficult path before you and continue to do so.
Hugs free. Xx
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Great quote: Trees hide in the forest.
Thanks, I´d never seen that before.
EMDR.com- will explain this therapy. It rewires your brain after trauma.
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Here, my dear Free, you are free to speak your mind.
All the messy bits.
We get it.
And if nothing else, it will help you know that you are not insane. Or that we all are lol.
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Free sadly we all get it. You are not alone.
Treasur's post to you said it all. (another powerful post Treasur...I love your writing style). It is not about us or the OW...it is about our broken Mlcers.
4. Any ow who has an affair and then plans to marry someone who can treat his first marriage this way is almost always not an emotionally healthy person either. They are an affair down bc you and me and the other fine quality women here wouldn't find that acceptable in a future h. Doesn't matter how pretty or smart or professional they seem. Broken attracts broken. Trees hide in a forest.
Ignore the OW...totally! She is a symptom of the MLCer. Totally irrelevant. Nothing more...nothing less. These type of people will always hang themselves when given enough rope.
Never play tug of war over a man – let go of the rope and walk away, because eventually both of them will fall face-first in the mud, without your help.
~ Savannah Grey
We are here for you...we totally understand what you are experiencing. I find this site a godsend...people in the real world just don't get it.
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I agree, another great post by Treasur, she has an amazing way with words and she helps you see the reality
Everyone here is great, as you can see from the replies on this thread alone, HS site is full of wonderful people. They offer understanding, support and advice, which is priceless when your dealing with this trauma
This site has helped me make sense of the nonsense. When your once loving partner does a 180 and acts as if you don’t exist it’s really hard to comprehend, but finding a place where there are so many similarities in their behaviour really helps you to not go completely bonkers, and no one here is shocked by even the most bizarre MLC behaviour. Also, unlike RL where people just don’t understand and make you feel like you can’t talk about it after a certain length of time, there’s no time restriction here and no limit to the advice given, we can talk about the crazy crisis for as long as we need and there are always people here to help 😊
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Amazing post from Treasur
Free I understand completely. You question yourself endlessly at first (well actually long after in fact). Your sensible head tells you it cannot be normal - marriages don’t just end like this. But you also just can’t get your head around it. This mysterious ‘MLC’ thing that no one in the real world (outside of here) really seems to get, that you think ‘that can’t have happened to me’ yet Treasur is right if you read enough here it is bizarre the similarities that occur in many different stories even down to the same lines being spoken. I would often get stuck thinking well the ‘vanisher’ thing comes from basically my H being to cowardly or not having the emotional maturity to handle the situation MLC or not. Yet that’s kind of the point vanishers DONT have normal functioning emotions or the abilities to handle their emotions. You chuck a whole dose of Mid Life causes in there whether situational (something happening) or physical (hormones etc) and boom they just cannot deal with it so they run, They bury, they avoid. They are skilful compartmentalisers and Detachers. I know my ex was long before his crisis.
I guess the tricky part is knowing how long they can keep up the avoiding/compartmentilising etc. There’s not much to go on with vanishers. I know of only a few cases where there’s been very low level contact after long periods of time. I think my vanisher would fall in to the camp of forever avoiding unless one major guilt trip/breakdown occurs. I think that’s what so many of us are interested in on this thread - happens with vanishers! Forever vanished? For me it’s not important I’ve moved on. I only hanker after some vindication but I’m working on that!
Be kind to yourself Free. Trust that time heals and your energy is best invested in to making YOU ok and keeping your mind open to other routes to happiness.
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Thank You Rising, Brenrose, ForTheTrees , StillHalfFull and Brenrose. Your kind words mean more than you know. Actually you all probably know exactly how much it s meant to me that you’ve all taken the time to comment and be supportive. I will definitely keep communicating on this forum.
Thank you again
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It’s not easy to see the open door ahead of you when you keep looking at the closed door behind you.
Why be envious of a woman that is marrying a known cheater? I know I don’t want to be “them”, why would any of us? We were blindsided, we didn’t know, we know we deserve better. If you don’t think you deserve better, that needs to be your focus, not “them”.
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Why be envious of a woman that is marrying a known cheater? I know I don’t want to be “them”, why would any of us? We were blindsided, we didn’t know, we know we deserve better. If you don’t think you deserve better, that needs to be your focus, not “them”.
I couldn't agree more. As LBS's we spend the first year post BD blaming the OP, I really think this a process of our grief. We blame shift, removing the responsibility from our Mlcers. We are looking for answers which sadly we don't find. Our Mlcers are responsible for the destruction of our marriages and families. Yes we acknowledge that there are contributing factors...the traits of a Mlcers, but we cannot control this. But the focus should never be on the OP....they are a symptom...normally a damaged individual also. Ignore and disregard them. They are really nothing to your family.
Should the MLCer decide to marry the Op acknowledge that the MLCer is only the shell of the man whom they once were. Honestly if we were to meet the MLCer for the first time, in their current persona....there would be no love...no connection....no relationship...no marriage. No nothing..because in their current state they would not even register on our radars. We deserve better.....concentrate on healing ourselves and our children....become the best possible version of ourselves. Trust fate that we will end up where we belong!
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All of this is quite right, of course.
We know that....just takes a while to really feel it maybe.
I do wonder if one of the challenges of a vanisher is that the person we knew lives in our head for a bit longer bc we don't see so much evidence of what they have become. Like a death without a body.
It does fade I think over time but that absence of new information is just another void to fill with our own answers and bc it is like imagining a zombie or tasting green with your elbow, it just takes a bit longer maybe to settle in.
The one bit of the MLC 'process' I have never been able to firm up on in my mind is if any significant bit of the person we knew still exists at all or if they are pretty much erased by the crisis. I just don't know. But it seems sensible to pick the most useful 'answer' for me as I don't know and that is to assume the person I knew de facto no longer exists.
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Treasur I believe that the persona we knew is still existent within that MLC burden body. They run from reality and avoid contact with people who mean something to them. This is only my opinion.
My ExH has been a vanisher for some time now. Ghosting from our children's lives He made no contact to our Children on Christmas Day or their birthdays, graduation and many other significant occasions etc, something that I cannot fathom. Ironically he did reach out to our eldest son 2 days after Christmas and they met up for a brief lunch. No invitation was sent out to our other 3 children. i believe that ExH has selected S1 because he has the most caring heart and is soft natured. I don't know (or want to know) what was discussed, that is not my concern. It was a brief lunch meet up, which S1 commented that it was awkward at times.
My ExH also has vanished from his beloved brothers life as well. The two brothers have been close all their lives. BIL has been beside himself as he has tried on many occasions to contact ExH to no avail...his calls and messages have been ignored. Then on New Years Eve ExH rocks up on his doorstep. Apparently his newly purchased motorbike is encountering some mechanical issues and he needed some help. BIL said that ExH appeared to be uncomfortable and could not maintain eye contact. Once again the contact was brief. Yes it was only contact because the MLCer wanted something...but it was a start.
I believe that the real persona co-exists within the MLCer's body. They know what they are doing....yet I am on the "Don't know why" theory why they continue hurting people who matter. BIL said that ExH looked horrible.
I was pleased that ExH reached out to S1 and BIL briefly.....sadly he only sort interaction with his B because he needed something and it suited him.
I do believe that whilst in crisis that the real persona is in that body somewhere....often hidden under the persona trying to reinvent their younger self.
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Has anyone been reading yellowroseoftexas’s thread?
Seems like her vanisher has reappeared after years of NC.
Interesting.
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I know, Nah, really interesting what's going on on Yellow's thread. Glad you pointed it out to everyone.
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Very interesting indeed.
I love Yellowroseoftexas' quote "As much as they try to forget us, the memories are there. Husband remembered a lot of stuff I forgot. And......he remembered the fun times". It is what we constantly remind ourselves of...no one can forget a large chunk of their lives.
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I did. But what I got was that it was Yellowrose who went NC and there was not contact for three years 2015-2018.
It was Yellowrose who ask her husband to come by because she had a situation with her S26. It was not him that got in contact. Like it was not him who cut contact.
Our 26 year old son moved back in wih me. He left at 18 for college and is home again. VERY STRESSFUL.
We had an incident and I asked husband (ex) actually to come over and help diffuse the situation. He did.
Regardless, MLCers tend to show up. Even if many years down the road.
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I’m often surprised now by how much my H remembers!
Even stuff that I’d forgotten!
X
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I'm watching Yellow's story with great interest.
I did. But what I got was that it was Yellowrose who went NC and there was not contact for three years 2015-2018.
So? Most of our vanishers are vanishers for a reason. Many would argue that mine was a vanisher because I started to date so early, and that might be true. Many are vanishers b/c of the influence of the ow (including Yellow's). Yellow was much smarter and stronger than me. She went NC early to protect herself, not to influence his behavior but to protect herself.
It was Yellowrose who ask her husband to come by because she had a situation with her S26. It was not him that got in contact. Like it was not him who cut contact.
Again, so? Would he have done that early after BD? Probably not. I contacted The Leaver a few weeks after BD, our son was suicidal, The Leaver knew I wasn't making it up. It didn't matter, The Leaver was a shell of who he used to be, he did nothing. He left it up to me, in my shocked post BD state, to deal with our suicidal son alone. Yellow's husband showed, regardless of who contacted who, I think this is significant.
...and now we have a vanisher that is poking his frightened little head into the real world.
This is when it gets extra tricky. I have yet to see a smooth ride.
btw... I also noticed the 3-yr mark. Whether 3 years is significant or not, I'm not sure, but it does seem to be a trend.
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So? So, real vanishers vanish not because the LBS cut contact or any other thing that come from the LBS. They took off at BD and that was pretty much it until the day they return out of the blue.
They also don't tend to come by when their LBS, who had contact with them, reaches out after three years and asks them to come round sort some things with their son.
There is not shortage of threads with contact with that sort of "vanishers". What we don't have is many stories with those that vanished at BD of their own free will and only made contact many years down the road.
Stayed friend's husband is one story we know of. He left, and turned up eight or nine years later at his LBS doorstep.
Yellowrose's three years mark is for NC. BD was July 2014. 4 years and seven months ago.
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So? So, real vanishers vanish not because the LBS cut contact or any other thing that come from the LBS. They took off at BD and that was pretty much it until the day they return out of the blue.
According to who? The vanisher rulebook?
Would you call him a clinger? A wallower? A boomerang?
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He seems to be a clinger, going by the fact he come by when Yellowrose asked him to because of their S26 and also because he went by yesterday when she invited him over for the party. A real vanisher would not show. Let alone twice in such a short time.
Try ask a real vanisher to come by sort issues with adult children and over to a party. Doubt there will be much luck. Even because, usually, the LBS has no clue where the vanisher is nor any way of contacting the vanisher.
I have said it many times before, pretty much everyone on these vanisher threads doesn not have a vanisher. They have an on/off. Some have boomerangs. For some reason, on/offs seemed to have dissapeared from HS type of MLCer, but they exist.
Regardless, he didn't show because he decided to, he showed because he was asked by his LBS. Very different from a MLCer, of any type, who shows because they realize it was time to show up. Usually the LBS does not ask the MLCer to come back, let alone a MLCer the LBS cut contact with years ago.
Would you (if there wasn't a new person in your life) ask your MLCer to go by the house to sort issues with your kids? Would you ask him for a party? After three years of NC? I wouldn't.
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I think it's a huge stretch to suggest YROT's H is a clinger. Three entire years of no contact and then he comes over and he's a clinger?
You are ignoring one very big consideration, that he was asked to come help with something and he came. Meaning he is not in the dark, incredibly selfish part of his crisis where he would actually refuse to help out. If YROT had called him for help 3 years ago, or even last year, he very well could have refused or just not answered her. This time, he responded and he agreed to help.
That to me doesn't suggest anything close to a clinger. It suggests a man who is starting to pull his head out of his a$$, realize he is not the only one on the planet who matters and start to think of others instead of just himself.
As for the "true vanishers," I think that's an issue of semantics. An MLCer who doesn't contact or respond to contact is a vanisher. That means my H is not truly a vanisher, even though he moved far away, changed his phone number while I was in chemo and NEVER contacts me. I sent him a message to let him know I knew my dog was dead in July. He responded immediately and kept responding for hours. Doesn't make him a clinger, or a boomerang. Just means he got a message and replied.
Same thing the other day when I sent him a message to let him know my mother had died. He replied very quickly. He's still a vanisher in my eyes.
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3 years of absolute no contact...no means of contact...is not classed as a Vanisher but a Clinger? Where is this written in the Mlc rulebook .....how many years of no contact constitutes a Vanisher? Sorry but YROT's husband is certainly a vanisher!
Would you (if there wasn't a new person in your life) ask your MLCer to go by the house to sort issues with your kids? Would you ask him for a party? After three years of NC? I wouldn't.
YROT did not disclose what the issue with S26 was and certainly does not need to. It is not warranted. I logically assumed that after 3 years of NC it was of a serious nature and YROT needed assistance from the other parent. There certainly isn't anything unusual about this when your kids need help. MLC or not...he is still a parent!
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You are ignoring one very big consideration, that he was asked to come help with something and he came.
I am ignoring what I said from the start? :o Read reply #70 of this thread. ;)
Both things are strange. That after three years a LBS breaks contact to aks the MLCer to go by and sort some issue, and that the MLCer who didn't had any contact from the LBS goes by right away.
It is also strange he accepts the invitation for the party after such a short time from the the first contact.
He may, or may not be in the most dark of his crisis. Since there has not been contact for three years, we don't know how deep is his crises or where he is on his crisis. Some MLCers never go that deep into crisis. Others do.
Lets see where it leads.
Maybe it is semantics to you. To me there is a big difference between someone who does not contact because that is what they have decided to do, and someone who does not contact because someone cut contact with them.
Your husband is most likely an of/off Nas. Just like most MLCers that, for some reason, we start to call vanishers are.
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Anjae,
If it bothers you so much that we call them vanishers, why dont you just stop reading this thread?
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I'd like a clear definition of a vanisher. My ex never contacts me. If I contact him ( rarely) it is only about child aupport issues. He responds. The issue is done and contact is done. Very quick and to the point email.
Is he a vanisher or not ? There is no contact otherwise and hasn't been since he was served with divorce docs in 2017. I call that a vanisher.
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I don't think the term "on/off" is very accurate for most of us on this thread.
In most of our cases the "on" is pretty non-existent. My opinion of "on/off" would be that the "on" happens with much more frequency than what I've seen in the last three plus years.
Maybe we should just call them runaways instead of vanishers.
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This discussion has come up many times. According to RCR, you can have contact with a vanisher, it's rare but it does happen.
Direct from RCR...
What Contact Type is your MLCer? These are unrelated to whether an MLCer is high-energy, low energy, Antihero or Accommodater.
Boomerang
This MLCer stays in contact--sometimes because you have children, but not always and often the children provide a convenient excuse. The contact may be Monster spew, it may be clingy and seeking reassurance, it may be cake-eating, but even when it seems they will just go away, they bounces back.
Off-and-On
This MLCer contacts in small bites, perhaps an email or other contact every few months. Touch-n-Goes are smaller or shorter than with a Boomerang. It may feel like a reopening of old wounds with each new contact which may increase during special dates and holidays. They may send gifts but offer no information other than a note--or may send no note. Touch-n-Goes where there is two-way communication are often tests and feelers to determine how you will treat them, what you want from them and whether you are judging them.
Vanisher
Is my spouse dead? You may know they are alive and how they seem to be doing because of the grapevine, or you may not. This MLCer seems to drop off the earth. They may contact on occasion, but contact is rare. Do not pursue, if you try to contact or follow your MLCer they will find a new hideout and bury themselves deeper, and blame you more. By leaving them alone you are allowing them the time to heal and to choose how they will heal even if you disapprove of their choices.
Like so many things, the Contact Types run along a spectrum with Boomerang at one end, Off-and-On in the center and Vanisher at the far end. MLCers may move on the spectrum--though they remain relatively static most of the time. When they move, they usually stay in a contact type for long periods. Some are Boomerangs in early and even late MLC but may Vanish once things seem finished--the divorce is final and either of you may have a new relationship. This may include vanishing from your children's lives.
Nas and I (and others) are good examples of having rare contact with our vanishers. I really don't think how the contact/no contact happens really makes that much of a difference unless the LBS makes the contact impossible, Yellow did not do this. Yes, she made it a challenge but not impossible. Also, if the MLCer did not want contact, he would not have responded.
This guy is a stereotypical vanisher (the absolute no contact for life exists but are extreme and rare) and he responded to contact,...how? Semantics. So what if it was by Yellow's request, like I said before, I requested for The Leaver's help close to BD, it was a big deal, my exact words were, "I'm afraid to leave the house and come back to find (son) hanging"...
No response. Years later I would challenge The Leaver in a message, and he would respond or call. It was about timing.
Yellow's vanisher probably would not have responded to her request years ago but he more than responded, he showed.
It's kind of a big deal, IMO.
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I’d say that a vanisher is a vanisher until they aren’t a vanisher anymore. I DO have a true vanisher I don’t need any rule book to tell me that.
Isn’t it obvious that someone who has vanished and remained silent for a long time may not have thought there was a way back to make contact, isn’t it conceivable that they are so ashamed of what they have done that they just stayed away. An LBS teaching out for a valid reason may have been the life line that was required, maybe he wouldn’t have ever reached out in his own or maybe he would have looked for a reason to do so. It can’t be easy to make contact again after the destruction they cause.
I don’t think it matters that this LBS contacted its obvious something’s shifted for the MLCr and the fact that there’s is conversation about memories the past etc just demonstrates so clearly that despite being away and living a different life for many years some DO still think about it.
My therapist told me about the man she was currently working with that had stayed away from the wife he had left for 20 years but that he was desperate to go back to her - he had been married to the OW had lived a whole other life but regretted leaving his first wife and it haunted him, his reason for going so long without admitting it to himself or anyone else - ego.
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Exactly tyks. These are people that we spent everyday with talking to and sharing our lives with for 20 -30 years. Then oneday it is just gone. The coward and i have 3 children together. Our youngest is a minor. We do not co parent at all. I raise her by myself. He plays daddy, half assed i might add, every other weekend. I have not had a conversation with him in probably a year or better. I do not allow him to pick up and drop her off at my house when its time for his visitation. He vanished from my life. That in my book is a vanisher. He may still be around the kids from time to time but not like he used to be. He is not the person he was before. He vanished who he was.
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his reason for going so long without admitting it to himself or anyone else - ego.
YES.
I had the rare gift of my ex actually telling me everything we want to hear... his choices haunt him, he thinks of me and the life we used to have together, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Then what? He married her and disappeared. Well, I'm no Yellow. I would not have made it easy for him to return, his fragile ego would have taken a beating. Can't have the hockey guys and the band people laughing at him with, "I told you so's", now could he? That's why, I believe, most vanishers don't return.
I really believe the true MLCers, especially the vanishers feel this way, no matter how they behave. They are cowards, frightened little boys who can't face reality, so they hide because it's the path of least resistance. They stay where they are because they don't want to admit to their friends and family that they blew up their world, and destroyed everything that was good because of their stupid ego.
Yellow's husband showed up because he wanted to show up. His ego is still preventing him to let his mask completely fall, but he is making baby steps b/c of Yellow. She went on with her life, she didn't try to control the situation, so he is inching towards her like a shy little kitten. But read her thread... oh he wants to be famous, he has this cool house, forgot her birthday, blah, blah, blah... all ego.
Classic vanisher behavior but b/c Yellow is so cool, this might be a rare return.
I'm on the edge of my seat.
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Thanks, nah. I have a vanisher. Xh does not contact me. He only responds if I initiate contact about child support.
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.
Direct from RCR...
What Contact Type is your MLCer? These are unrelated to whether an MLCer is high-energy, low energy, Antihero or Accommodater.
Boomerang
This MLCer stays in contact--sometimes because you have children, but not always and often the children provide a convenient excuse. The contact may be Monster spew, it may be clingy and seeking reassurance, it may be cake-eating, but even when it seems they will just go away, they bounces back.
Off-and-On
This MLCer contacts in small bites, perhaps an email or other contact every few months. Touch-n-Goes are smaller or shorter than with a Boomerang. It may feel like a reopening of old wounds with each new contact which may increase during special dates and holidays. They may send gifts but offer no information other than a note--or may send no note. Touch-n-Goes where there is two-way communication are often tests and feelers to determine how you will treat them, what you want from them and whether you are judging them.
Vanisher
Is my spouse dead? You may know they are alive and how they seem to be doing because of the grapevine, or you may not. This MLCer seems to drop off the earth. They may contact on occasion, but contact is rare. Do not pursue, if you try to contact or follow your MLCer they will find a new hideout and bury themselves deeper, and blame you more. By leaving them alone you are allowing them the time to heal and to choose how they will heal even if you disapprove of their choices.
Like so many things, the Contact Types run along a spectrum with Boomerang at one end, Off-and-On in the center and Vanisher at the far end. MLCers may move on the spectrum--though they remain relatively static most of the time. When they move, they usually stay in a contact type for long periods. Some are Boomerangs in early and even late MLC but may Vanish once things seem finished--the divorce is final and either of you may have a new relationship. This may include vanishing from your children's lives.
Thanks for sharing that, Nah. By RCR's definition, there is no way that my MLCer fits in the Off-and-On category. There is no contact by email, phone, text. There are no gifts, no touch and goes. We don't have children together so no reason for me to contact him and I don't.
Now, the definition she shares for Vanisher DOES fit my MLCer. I do know he's alive because of the grapevine and because this tiny town has 250 people in it and every so often I meet his vehicle on the road. I don't pursue him, he does have a new hideout and I have no idea if he's starting to "heal".
So I guess I'm still going to say that my MLCer is a vanisher.
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I really believe the true MLCers, especially the vanishers feel this way, no matter how they behave. They are cowards, frightened little boys who can't face reality, so they hide because it's the path of least resistance. They stay where they are because they don't want to admit to their friends and family that they blew up their world, and destroyed everything that was good because of their stupid ego.
You have accurately posted my feelings about my MLCer, Nah.
I don't expect him to ever leave the ugly, dark tunnel he dwells in.
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Who knows SB, your MLCer most definitely fits in the strange behavior category. Is he reeling b/c of his stupid decisions?
Your vanisher might win the trophy.
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Thankyou Nah for posting RCR’s definition/theory. Yes sadly, querying the definition of a Vanisher does pop its “ugly judgemental” head up repetitively. At the end of the day does it really matter...a Mlcer is a Mlcer! But then again some will question if another posters Mlcer is actually a Mlcer....It is laughable actually!
I find it totally contemptuous to every LBS of a “Mlcer” be it a “Vanisher” or “Clinger” or whatever on HS having to continuously validate that their MLCer is a Mlcer or Category of Mlcer is to others....i’m am pretty sure and confident that each LBS knows (unless they ask) what they have on their hands. The LBS know their situation best.
Yellows post is certainly validating our theories and I for one find it intriguing and interesting. One learns so much more when they listen and take onboard all the facts rather than sitting back and judging. We all have so much to learn on MLC. Life and people are far from predicable.
Everyone has personal theories and suppositions based on our personal MLC journey and research which we share as “opinions” to others...but we must remember that these are our opinions only.
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Yellow’s MLCer was contacted and showed up. And actually helped. I agree with Nah, it’s a big deal.
I contacted my H the other day because my mother died in an incredibly shocking and sudden way. He responded pretty quickly. But he showed no concern for how I felt about it and only showed mild interest in the entire situation.
Actions always speak volumes over words.
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I think there's hardly any here who have a true vanisher, as in disappeared off the face of the earth and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. The majority of us have Hs who, after an initial period of contact, are now completely ignoring us, ignore texts, no emails, some have moved far away, and appear to have completely forgotten their previous life with us.
I am interested in these stories, they are more the norm than the complete vanisher. I do think it's more semantics, as in the thread title might be slightly wrong for those of us who are participating in this thread, but if only the ones with the true vanishers were to post, this thread wouldn't have much going on.
I don't mind hearing about the versions of the vanishers. When we have one of these kinds, we know so little about what's going on in their lives, that if we hear a snippet here and there from each other, it helps. At least, I'm curious.
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I agree with milly. I consider my h a vanisher as milly says I get nothing, no text, no emails, nothing to me or the kids. He popped his head up twice in 2017 but mainly for the kids which didn’t last long and to continue to project on to me. He saw kids handful of times but when hears something he doesn’t like, off he pops again. I think twice in 15 mths is not a lot. It certainly wasn’t a touch and go as if he could of avoided me altogether he would of.
I don’t really care if he is not a true vanisher in the sense of the word but for me he is and I find this thread helpful. Xx
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I never even opened this thread because I don't consider my H a vanisher... yet. But I can see that happening in our case considering he moved abroad and we have no kids..
I really believe the true MLCers, especially the vanishers feel this way, no matter how they behave. They are cowards, frightened little boys who can't face reality, so they hide because it's the path of least resistance. They stay where they are because they don't want to admit to their friends and family that they blew up their world, and destroyed everything that was good because of their stupid ego.
I read this quote and it just felt like a description of my H.. It's the reason why I think I will have no other option but to move on.. My gut feeling tells me that he started to realize what he had done so he moved abroad rather than face it.. His move it's so unlike him and goes against many things he told me at BD (he wanted to live in his home town, close to his famility, etc etc) My entire family thinks he will regret leaving me but his pride will keep him away :-\
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So glad I read this thread. I'm humbled my story is interesting. 😊
I consider my husband a vanisher. Maybe not totally correct but it's the box I checked.
In 2017 my father died. I did not hear ANYTHING from husband. Husband and dad were very close. Husband did not attend the funeral service. He didn't check in with our 3 kids to see if they were OK. Youngest daughter decided to go to school the day of the funeral which was OK. Since she wasn't driving I had to leave the service early (it was held a couple of towns over) to pick daughter up from school. MR. YROT LIVES AND WORK FAIRLY CLOSE TO DAUGHTERS SCHOOL. No offer to help ME with HIS daughter. Nothing!!!!!!!!
Yes, it was a big deal when husband helped me with OUR son. But I knew/felt/sensed a change had occurred with husband. 2018 he bought me a Christmas present. This was the first time he acknowledged my existence. That he remembered I was in the universe.
Hopefully I didn't add to the confusing.
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I agree with how Nah describes the vanisher kind too. I believe my H is the ultimate coward, so scared of being caught in the wrong that he will hide for ever even if he’s not happy in his new life.
One day, I totally get how upu’re feeling. I’m working on accepting that my H will never come back because he can’t face others more than himself.
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So glad I read this thread. I'm humbled my story is interesting. 😊
I consider my husband a vanisher. Maybe not totally correct but it's the box I checked.
Well, welcome to the clanishers of the vanishers, Yellow. You're kind of a superstar over here this week. ;D
Yes, I feel it's totally correct that you have a vanisher. It's a spectrum and even though there are a few that have completely 100% disappeared for years, that doesn't mean our MLCers don't fit in the vanisher box, most of us do belong right here on the vanisher thread.
At this point, we don't know if your vanisher will be an extended touch and go (mine did that, and then disappeared again) or if you might be in the infancy of reconnection. Either way, I'm rooting for YOU, whether or not you reconnect with your vanisher, I'm praying that you find peace and happiness.
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Yellow - its great to have you on this thread! Hopefully you are able to give us some insight in to a vanisher in mid / later stages.
I think that most Vanishers vanish because of their personality traits such as a high level of cowardlyness, being able to compartmentalise well and in many cases they will be conflict avoiders so its just so much easier to stay gone for them, shut out the old life and look forwards even when they are are haunted with old memories. Im not sure they can always empathise or have strong levels of sentiment maybe thats one of their issues, maybe thats what some learn I can imagine its a very uncomfortable feeling to have such feelings. But like I said in my earlier post, ultimately I think they stay gone down to ego ruling......
I read about The Abandoned Wives Club and basically decided they are all likely LBSs of vanishers. There isn't a focus on MLC with AWC but I wonder if there are any stories of those abandoners that one day reappear for what ever reason.
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Thought I would share this with my fellow Clanishers of the Vanishers...an oldie but it is good to re-read along our journey.
MIDLIFE For Dummies
Welcome to the wonderful world of Mid Life Crisis!! You are about to embark on one of the most perilous journeys you have ever taken. A journey fraught with intrigue and guaranteed to turn you inside out! This book is designed to help you make sure you get the most emotional bang for your buck.
In these pages are the “how to” answers to the questions you have been asking yourself about damaging as many people as you can along the way. Come on and dig in, it’s time to get this roller coaster rolling on down the tracks!!
Chapter 1 – Choosing the Correct Speech
There are 4 basic speeches for you to choose from. They are:
a) I love you but I don’t know if I’m in love with you.
b) I’ve never loved you, and we should never have gotten married.
c) We got married to young. I never knew anything besides you.
d) You tricked me into marrying you, I would never have done it otherwise.
Once you have decided on which speech to give, you need to cause as much anxiety in your spouse as you can before you actually give it. Continue to the next chapter for Lessons in building anxiety.
Chapter 2 – Lessons in Building Anxiety
You will find these lessons to be helpful in causing anxiety in your spouse and others (depending on the level of pain and damage you want to cause), not just prior to giving the speech, but throughout your MLC.
Lesson 1 – Monstrification of Your Spouse
This is easy to accomplish. Simply think of only the “bad” things that your spouse has done throughout your entire relationship. Have one of those “angel” spouses? No problem, just remember how bad she always makes you feel. DO NOT under any circumstances remember fondly your spouse, or anything they have done for you. Remember, they are going to be the cause of all of your problems, so it is imperative that you convince your self of this first.
Lesson 2 – Emotional Detachment
This will be very easy to do after accomplishing lesson 1. All you have to do is start reminding yourself that you don’t care about them, what they feel, what they want, or if they hurt. Simple! Every time you remind yourself of this, you will get further and further away from your relationship emotionally. Now, that wasn’t too hard was it? On to lesson 3
Lesson 3 – Mass Confusion and Indecision
This lesson requires a little more thought and attention. You must constantly practice saying “I don’t know” to ANY and ALL questions. That is imperative!! Your spouse (and others) must never know precisely what is going on in-side your head. Also, never let them know where you are going, where you have been, who you were with (this will go hand in hand with the lesson on the Other Person, or OP), or whether or not they can expect you to return home.
Lesson 4 – Lies and Deceit
To get the most damage, and cause the most pain, you must lie and decieve at every opportunity. And to really achieve hall of fame status, you should be very inept at it, so that everyone knows that you are lying, or suspects, but can’t prove it initially. This works very well for the following chapters, OP and Cake Eating.
Chapter 3 – The Other Person (or OP)
Now it is time for you to succumb to temptation. You KNOW all of those other women/men want you! They have been coming on to you for years!! It is time for you to give them their chance at having some of you. Make sure that you leave a very confusing trail for your spouse to follow. One that lets them suspect, but have to dig and sneak (to make them feel worse about themselves) to find the information they need to prove it. Hold out admitting the affair as long as you can, and don’t admit it ever, if you can get away with it.
Chapter 4 – Cake Eating
This chapter is designed to string your spouse along in uncertainty as long as possible, because as long as they have hope, they won’t be able to go out and find their own lives and be fulfilled. Why should they get to do that, while you are so miserable? They shouldn’t!! So, make sure that you are affectionate occasionally (not too often, as this will raise anxiety levels), that you drag your feet about making a decision on the marriage, and that you leave and come back several times (as many as you can get away with).
Chapter 5 – History Revision
It is very important that you revise the life you have lead with your spouse. You must use words like: Always, Ever, Never and All of the Time. Always precede the statement with the terms: you, I, and we. As in “you always nag me” “I never ever (double bonus here) get to do what I want” and “We have to do what you want all of the time”. This will help to make your spouse feel like the way you are behaving is all their fault, and can cause them to feel even worse about themselves than they already did!!
Chapter 6 – It’s All About You!!
Remember this is all about you! What you want and need, RIGHT NOW! You shouldn’t have to wait until you can afford something, just go on out and get it! You deserve a new haircut, new clothes, and some new toys. You’ve worked for it. You would probably look great in that new Convertible, or on that new Harley!! So don’t hesitate! You live in the here and now! So why wait until tomorrow!!
Remember, the word is CRISIS and if you are in one, EVERYONE else should have to ride the Roller coaster with you! It’s no fun taking a ride alone, and you know what they say about misery loving company! Go on out there and get started, so much pain and damage, and so little time!
Chapter 7 – Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away
This chapter is to help you deal with the problems that your spouse will try to cause. We don’t want you to have to “deal” with anything, now do we? You shouldn’t have to “think” about any “issues” right now, except those that concern you “feeling good”. The best way to handle this, is to Avoid, Ignore, and Run Away. Any time someone tries to make you see a more “reasonable” stance on a subject, simply Avoid making a reply… stare out into space, as if you are thinking about something important, and they will become uncomfortable and leave you alone.
If there are responsibilities that need your attention, simply ignore them. You don’t have to do anything you don’t feel like doing. And the best for last is Run Away! This can be accomplished in many different ways. OP’s can help you Run Away from all of these “problems” as well as Alcohol, Drugs, New Sports Cars… etc the list is endless. Of course, you can always just leave… but remember not to let them know where you are going, and if you’ll be back!!
Chapter 8 – MC and Therapists
Your spouse may ask you to go to counseling with her/him. This is only useful to make them feel better. It cannot possibly have anything to you so there is no reason for you to follow-up with anything suggested–it doesn’t matter to you. The only thing you should look for is more reasons (excuses) for avoiding, running and ignoring (see previous chapter).
Chapter 9 – I Don’t Have To if I Don’t Want To and You Can’t Make Me!
Remember that this is about YOU, and what YOU want and how YOU feel!! No one else is important, so don’t let them make you feel as if you have to listen to anything they say. Your spouse will try to help you of course, because they love you. Don’t let them get away with giving you unwanted advice. Let them know in the teenage vernacular, that they can’t make you do anything.
This is important, you must be as childish as possible!! Any truly adult behavior on your part will only convince them that you are listening to what they are saying, and you will have to start back at the beginning. Of course, this technique can be used knowingly to cause more confusion and chaos, just beware of the danger, you don’t actually want to start acting like an adult!!
Chapter 10 – How To Threaten and/or How To Move Out
You threaten to move out for weeks or months but you don’t. (*)You tell your spouse that you got too much on your plate right now to look for a flat but that you will do so in 2 weeks time. After 2 weeks, repeat from (*).
If your wife wants to come too close to you, like entering your bedroom to talk to you, tell her to stay away or you will move out. When she replies that you will move out anyway tell her that you will move out faster if she comes any closer
Chapter 11 – Art of Clinging
The Art of Clinging to the End of the Mattress without falling off the matrimonial bed while still sharing it with your spouse.
Chapter 12 – Advanced Lessons
This is usually reserved for those in more difficult situations, where the LBS has responded not by tossing you out, threatening to leave, or filing for divorce, but instead persists in not only OFFERING to cooperate, but actually MAKING THE CHANGES you said you needed.
“I am tired of living like this/I don’t want to live like this anymore/I am not going to live my life like this?” often is coupled with another advanced tactic, “It’s not you, it’s me”.
This line is most effective AFTER the LBS has jumped through hoops and bent over backwards. It basically confirms that no matter what changes the LBS is willing to make, the incompatibility lies within the MLCer, who has no intention of, or implied desire or ability to, compromise.
Appendix
HOW TO MAKE YOUR SPOUSE THINK SHE IS CRAZY
1. When confronted by the evidence of an EA or PA, become very indignant. Stress that the LBS is obviously just a jealous sob/bi*ch, and you are entitled to “buddies” of the opposite sex.
2. Never, ever answer the question, “Are you okay? Is there something wrong?” with a direct answer that might actually lead to a discussion that might help the marriage. Continue to never talk to spouse, never give her/him a personal compliment or touch of affection and by all means work on the “cling to the edge of the mattress to avoid touching” manoeuvre that is so successful in making your spouse crazy.
3. Always bear in mind that your spouse will expect you to want to at least give them the chance to “fix” the marriage. Since you have already checked out emotionally (of course NEVER tell them that!), you are under no obligation to actually listen to anything they say or acknowledge anything they do. This tactic is also extremely beneficial when they employ the MLC diet. When they lose a massive amount of weight and you are in ear shot of someone who mentions to spouse about the weight loss, say “Are you losing weight? Why don’t you ever tell me things?”
4. Of course one of the most successful ways to drive them crazy may only be used when you have earned the MLC Black Belt. Go to marriage counselling for months, let them pour out their soul to you and the counsellor and let them believe they are actually accomplishing something. Then arrange things so the spouse finds you in your own home with OP. This will accomplish two things: a. She will finally have to understand how lucky you are to have found your “soul mate” and b. She will be doubly betrayed because she thought you were actually working on the marriage.
DON’T LET YOUR SPOUSE GET TOO INDEPENDENT – STATEGIES FOR SUCKING YOUR SPOUSE BACK IN
1. Make negative comments about OP or the chances that the relationship with OP will succeed. HOWEVER, under no circumstances, make any commitment to end the relationship with OP.
2. Make veiled hints about suicide or excessive drinking or drug use. Be erratic and hard to contact.
3. Do random acts of kindness such as yard work or something. That will keep your spouse confused and hopeful.
4. Make vague comments hinting that things might work out between you and your spouse IN THE FUTURE. HOWEVER, under no circumstances take any actions to work anything out.
CUSTODY – Using the Kids To Your Advantage
If you have children, they can be extremely useful for inducing fear and panic in your spouse. Recommended phrases include, “You’re poisoning my kids against me”, “You put that idea into their heads”, and “You need to do [insert pertinent action here] for the sake of the kids’.” Remember, your spouse, being a responsible and loving person, is not only trying to cope with his/her own feelings, but trying to protect the children, and you can use that to your advantage.
Don’t forget to use the fact that if you spend any time with your kids, you should get Extra Credit Bonus Good Parent points from your spouse. It doesn’t matter if you feed them ice cream for breakfast and have them watch “Hellboy” when they asked for “Veggie Tales”, you Just Wanted To Make Them Happy, and since YOU are the best judge of Happiness, that makes you Super Parent.
You can use this opportunity to trash talk your spouse (“Isn’t this more fun than what Mommy/Daddy would let you do?” “Mom/Dad doesn’t know how to relax.”) which of course, will be repeated back to your spouse so you get the benefit of destroying their self-esteem second hand.
Highly advanced MLCers may want to start casually using the word Custody, but be very, very careful. While useful for sending your spouse into a state of panic, you certainly do not want to be responsible for a bunch of kids who will seriously cut into your personal fun time. The word Custody should only be used in a casual tone of voice for the most devastating effect.
BUTTON PUSHING
You (the mlcer) know a lot about your spouse. You know what pushes their buttons to get them both upset and/or happy. You have the power, you can do it! So using the kids to upset them is fair game (see section on how to use “custody” to upset them but not take on the “custody”). And if that ever stops working, find something else. Suggestions might include pets, valuables in the home, their appearance, family, career. Nothing is out of your reach since you have put in so many years getting to know your spouse–use what you know.
THE BLAME GAME
By now, you should be aware that all of this MUST be your spouse’s fault, however, your spouse may not understand this completely yet, so you need to start planting the seeds.
There are several ingenious ways to put the blame on your spouse, and we will be exploring them all.
Method 1: The Non-Blame Statement
I’m trying not to blame YOU
This statement implies that you are “not putting the blame on them” but on closer look (which your spouse is guaranteed to be doing) The words actually put all of the blame on the spouse (where of course we know it belongs).
Method 2: The Passive Blame Statement
I don’t think that I can live with you.
My opinion never mattered to you.
I can’t live like this.
We rarely have fun anymore.
I don’t want to live this way anymore.
These are passive statements that don’t actually assign blame to your spouse, but your spouse will definitely get the idea if you use them. They can’t help but see that it MUST be them that makes you feel this way.
Method 3: The Direct Blame Statement
You never listen to me.
You never put creases in my pants.
You use bagged salad.
You never keep the house clean.
You are going to do it your way.
All of these are direct statements of blame. You should mix actual faults with things that don’t really matter to make it more confusing, and make your spouse feel as bad as possible about themselves.
Your spouse has probably already started doing the hard work to look inside his/herself (Yuck, what an awful thought!) and will take on all of the faults you list to try and correct them. This will keep them occupied for awhile, and you can avoid any serious relationship talks while they apologize for and try to fix all of their own faults.
Make sure that you don’t actually accept the apology, that way you can continue to bring the fault up which will slow down their self improvement process. Remember, they are working on becoming better human beings, and you wouldn’t want that to happen to fast, as that would interfere with your ability to string them along.
Note: NEVER ACTUALLY ADMIT TO ANY FAULTS OF YOUR OWN!!!! REMEMBER, YOU DON’T HAVE ANY! YOU ARE THE GOOD ONE, AND HAD THE RIGHT TO HAVE AN AFFAIR, LIE, SPEND MONEY, OR ANY OTHER THING, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE BAD!!!
Let’s not forget “We’re just incompatible – we always were.”
Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it’s “too little, too late”, or wasn’t what you meant AT ALL. If all else fails, put the LBS down for being so willing to change herself for your needs. Also, when the LBS starts to make changes, make SURE you find fault with these changes, or point out how it’s “too little, too late”, or wasn’t what you meant AT ALL.”
How to keep you spouse guessing…be mean one minute threatening divorce, etc then next day be kind and sweet almost the way your spouse remembers you..rinse repeat….
HOW TO CONTINUE THE CRAZINESS ONCE SEPARATION/DIVORCE IS AGREED UPON
1. Even though by now you, dear MLCer, have done everything human possibly to convince your spouse that you do not love him/her and want out, when the time comes to actually file, DON”T DO IT! This is the coup de gras of MLC. Absolutely DO NOT TAKE THE INITIATIVE. This is a most vital and awesome crazy-maker. Holding out will force your by now totally devastated spouse to finally throw up his/her hands and seek legal counsel.
2. Once the LBS has had enough and decides that divorce is in their best interest, you have won HUGE points here. Refusing to be the one to file now puts YOU in the role of victim, bringing you all the attention and pity necessary to allow you to again regain your image of the abused one in all this. Now you can, with absolutely NO guilt, tell everyone the divorce was your LBS’s idea (which of COURSE it was!) and they will assume that:
a. the LBS lost all that weight and obviously has been involved in an affair, and
b. the marriage ended because your LBS spouse is going through a – YES! THE PINNACLE OF CRAZINESS! – Midlife Crisis!!
Copyright The Midlife Club. :P
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Bren, thanks for reminding us of this list. It puts the crazy in a normal box. It had my H all over it. Thank sort of makes me feel better.
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I have seen this before and h ticks every box. Xx
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Funny enough, I found that list shortly after BD2 and despite being devastated, it made me laugh :) It ticked so many boxes that it helped me arrive to the conclusion I was not crazy!
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We are ALL so NOT CRAZY....OK lol. I do wonder to myself if I am the crazy one.... than I come here...if I am Crazy than I am very privileged to be surrounded by so many mutually crazy people on HS 😂
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Hello fellow Clanishers of the Vanishers!!!
I have a vanisher and have been following this thread. I'm not going to get hung up on the definition of whether he is a vanisher or not - in my eyes he is! Since he left in Dec 16 I have only spoken with him a couple of times, now not since October 17. Any communication is now through lawyers. He hasn't seen the kids or spoken to them for just over a year and even before that there was not much contact. We have no idea where he lives, we have just been erased from his life completely. I follow a lot of threads though and sometimes I feel that I cope better because he has vanished. It was horrendous on the couple of occasions when he did visit the kids and I admire the strength of all of the LBS's who have to interact with an uncaring ML'er on a regular basis because of the kids. We are all just in different versions of the same nightmare. Having a vanisher is odd though as sometimes my mind plays tricks on me and I have to remember that the last 20 years did exist. Anyway, following along, love and support to all, PG xxx
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PG, my mind plays tricks on me too! Hardly anything else in my life has changed, so I have little glimpses where it just doesn't register she's gone. It will hit me and I'll panic for a split second. It's less often now but occasionally happens. Sometimes its a dream then I wake up and realize oh ya she's gone.
Seems like it's been easier in many ways with her out of the picture. The LBS that deal with the Mlcer on a regular bases seems to drag out the excruciating pain.
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Philly, we ARE all different versions of the same nightmare. I follow your thread but sometimes I forget that there are so many versions of this atrocious MLC. Your kids have not seen their dad for a year. I worry for my S who has a pathetic dad right now, but it's still a figure that he glimpses at times, more like a shadow really not a whole person but still, something. I do feel for your kids, and you, too. And I totally understand what you mean when you wonder if maybe the last 20 years never existed, or we were in a comma or something, or in a movie, or a parallel universe........
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I agree with that. Its like your in the Matrix.
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Vanished h, no kids, no marital home, no contact from in laws after 20 years.
If I didn't have photos, I could easily believe that it was all just a dream.... ::)
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H is a vanisher, popped up twice in 18 mths for a short burst, monster. Kids given up and we no longer try so kids and me have vanished. H erased us and his old life and we have reached the point where we erase him and move forward. This is the year I get my sh^*e together. Xx
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Hello kindred Clannishers.
It’s easy to get hung up on semantics of “what type” spouse we’ve had to deal with, but we all here know well the ghost-spouse coward selfish person (aka: Vanisher!!!). No one should have to defend or justify their experience. We ALLLLLLLL know !!
Guess I’ve often wondered was it a dream? But I’m about to call MIL to wish her a happy birthday, so I know it was real. And I have pictures to remind me. And I have my crazy head that can’t seem to go even one day without remembering.
It breaks my heart those of you whose vanishers left both young and adult children.
Very heartbreaking for the kids.
Hang in there everyone ... better days will come
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I came across this interesting article this morning that I thought I would share with my fellow LBS’s. We constantly read on HS to avoid looking at the Mlcer and/or OW’s social media accounts. Something that I have not done since the very beginning...I am not interested in being apart of their fantasy world and I believe that by not succumbing to any temptation this has saved me from further hurt and anxiety. Nah’s Famous saying of “Smoke and Mirrors” was instilled in me...thanks Nah... the majority of any posts by the Mlcer and/or OW (& many other Social Media posters) are purely fake, attention seeking and mask the real identity of the poster.
https://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-people-who-facebook-relationship-brag-are-more-likely-to-have-low-self-esteem
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Well any updates from those with a vanisher?
I have not heard from my STBX since March 2018 when we finalized the financial split. His parting words to me were “our family is now over, goodbye”. Yep Monster right there. I’ve gone NC, his happiness of being free was too painful.
Adult children, met with him two weeks ago when he was in town to see his lawyer. Divorce in courts mid March. Kids say he doesn’t ask about me nor does he talk about his new life. At all. Finding out today they saw him and didn’t tell me (I’ve been thinking he has not been contacting them) feels uncomfortable like hiding and lying. I asked them to tell me in the future because it’s like keeping secrets. Made my stomach churn. BD August 2017,young OW they live together. Don’t know where nor does his children. 34 yrs married.
Sigh. Start new job tomorrow, was in a great mood....bit deflated now but know the only route is forward.
Any one else had any movement?
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Ausgator, it's early days for your H. He's deep in replay, that deep dark part of the tunnel where he can't see either end. Just the fact that not even your kids know where he lives should tell you. Many of us didn't know where our H's lived at some point. Many of them try to hide it. When my H sees my S14, he doesn't ask about me or talk about his new life. Of course this makes spending time with him very difficult for my S. They can only talk about stuff around them on the day. All normal for a MLCer in the middle of replay.
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Same here, aus, when h was in contact with kids as now no contact at all, won’t talk about me or his life. Only talked about a school or our dog. They only time he talked about me was to say I made fan cake as took daughter to a coffee shop and they had a slice of cake.
Congratulations on your new job. All we can do is move forward and a new job is moving forward. Xx
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Would someone like to start a new Discussion thread?
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New thread
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10659.new#new