Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Absolutely Fabulous on December 13, 2016, 06:52:18 AM
-
Newbies, read at your own risk.
This thread is for those that have been at this for a while, and will soon be or have been divorced. This is for anyone that has to go D&D or NC for your own personal sanity, safety, or just because you want to. To be able to have a real discussion without being lectured or attacked for your D&D or NC stance. I know the usual suspects will not be able to resist having their say, but this is going to be kept on topic. Despite some of their best efforts. Threads have topics for a reason: because people want to do discuss a particular topic. If this steps on your toes...
I personally can't deal with fresh newbies asking the same questions over and over again, any longer. This forum has so many good threads that answer most, if not all of their questions. And, does a great job as well. I don't want to have to relive any of the past through them any longer. That's all behind me now. But, I digress.. The purpose of this thread is to see how things are going for those who are beyond the "why?" question, and have moved on to GAL. How are you coping, doing, making out, whatever... Especially if you're D&D or NC.
I personally am enjoying being single, for the time being. The XH started this in 2008 and went full MLC in 2014. I had been bombed dropped 3x's before I had had enough, and gave him the divorce he so desperately wanted. We finalized it November 2015.
Now he has told the kids that he's moving back to our state ( just check out my main thread for all the gory details ) in a few months. And, wants to have the kids over the weekends. Of course he hasn't said a word to me. Asked the kids to ask me if it was going to be alright with me. ::) Typical. This is out of the blue and very sudden. Not sure what caused this turn of events. Not even sure if the OW/AD is moving with him. At any rate, he will be a little less than 2 hrs away, instead of living on an island. I'm sure this is yet another EA.
Truthfully I was enjoying the space, peace, and distance. This is going to complicate things a little, since the girls and I are planning on moving to TX after MD graduates. So this may be a ploy to keep us trapped in the state. All else has failed, so I guess this is his last attempt to force me to "stay on the shelf", and weigh anchor again. Not happening.
My kids are detached for the most part as well. In other words, if he wants contact, he has to contact them. They're tired of game playing, and can recognize when he's trying to be manipulative as well. They've become very savvy lately. We have settled into a life that so far, he hasn't really been a part of. We're just doing what we have to do to move beyond this mess, and it's been a good thing that he was so far away. The kids aren't fazed at this new turn of events. They've learned to go with the flow, just like mom.
Since he's coming back the kids now have a new motivation to get their personal businesses going. They really want to get out of this state. They liked him being so far away. He hasn't exactly been there. They're D&D, I'm NC.
How are some of you that have taken the same route doing? I know that at this point my kids don't even want me and the XH to reconcile. Yes he's done that much damage. Anyone else finding healing by being able to focus on yourself and/or your kids if you have them?
How is rebuilding your life coming along? How are you feeling these days? Are you considering dating or have you decided to be single for a while? Are you still hoping to reconcile? Have your kids started to get to a place where they are feeling more confident and healthier?
Where are you at this point of your journey?
Can't wait to hear your thoughts.
-
I am very dim/dark as well. I agree in some cases this is simply necessary. There was a point last year when my husband was more spaced out and stopped monstering/abuse. If he had continued that way I may have felt better with more contact.
I just want to comment about newbies asking why. The reason they are doing this is that they are in shock. It is not because they are unwilling to look up the article directory etc. That is a typical reaction of someone who has PTSD. Each and every person on this thread deserves our compassion, but someone actively in shock especially so.
-
Hi Velika,
As always love to hear from you. :)
About the newbies, I understand "why". The shock is so jarring it's almost palatable. I was just saying, that we have enough threads with the "why" questions. And, there are other threads where that's already been addressed. Lots of them. And, it brings people back to that place where they don't want to go back to. I just wanted this thread to move beyond that, for those who want to be able to talk about something else for a while.
Not to be confused with being insensitive to the newbies plight. After all, we've all been there. Think of this thread as being able to go outside to clear your head for a few minutes. At least that's what my hope for it is. It's not to leave anyone out, just let some others express their thoughts and opinions freely who are at a different stage in their journey.
And keep in mind that NC is not popular with many on HS. So, this is just one thread for those that have decided to take this route, and are willing to live with the consequences, because there are consequences. And, accept them no matter what the outcome.
-
Blerg, I just wrote a whole long post and didn't realize a new post hit at the same time so I lost mine. :(
Anyway, the gist of what I wrote:
Velika, I had a similar experience where for a long period my H was not monstering and was more depressed/spaced out/zombie-H, and if he had continued on like that maybe things would be different.
H moved far away to be with OW in June and I went dim at that time because I saw no reason for contact while he's off carrying on a new life/"relationship" with OW.
I went very dark in September.
In my case, going dark seems to have brought on a resurgence of blame and anger. A few weeks ago, as soon as he found out I was moving 700 miles away, he immediately had his lawyer draft D papers and is withholding alimony and demanding I sign them. (My lawyer has them - I can't sign them because they're wrong and don't even have my new address on them.)
H and I have a dog that is like a child (we don't have children) and the dog is with H because my living arrangements have been in flux for a year and I can't afford the dog's expensive medications because last spring the vet did an ultrasound that showed something on his bladder that they were not sure were cysts or cancer. The medication he's been on is supposed to shrink the growths if it is cancer or prevent it from becoming cancer if it isn't.
H knows how much I miss the dog and how much I wish he was with me. On Halloween, he was texting me and saying the dog was doing good and he commented that even though his cataracts really affect his eyesight, he still plays like a crazy puppy.
Now suddenly last week, just a few weeks later, he sends me an email saying he's mentally preparing to have to put the dog to sleep soon due to his declining health.
So in my case, it seems my going very dark has caused H to get angry and start looking for ways to regain control.
I didn't respond at all to his email about the dog because it's a no win for me. If I say I'm worried about the dog, I risk H feeling guilty and lashing out. If I respond in a too detached way, he will lash out and say I don't care.
It's too hard to carefully measure every word and every response. So I opted to not say anything at all.
-
Nassau, I'm so sorry to hear this. We had to give up our dog, and XH response? So glad that he can be happy now. The kids were devastated, but he wanted the dog gone for a while, so he was elated.
I can relate about the moving part. When we first moved out of the house, he refused to deposit all but $600 for 2 months, until the divorce hearing. At this point in time, he would only text or email. He was trying desperately to maintain control. We had already lost the house and the kids and I had to move in with my folks for a while.
NC has been a God send for me, until now. I don't know what the deal is, but I doubt seriously that he's had a change of heart. My best guess? The OW/AD and he are through, and he's running again. EA are the norm for him. Mine is upset that I'm NC as well, still trying to use my younger 2 to get the upper hand. He knows that we don't talk about him to OD, and she knows better than to bring him up to the younger 2 girls.
Refuses to adhere to the divorce decree which states: NO contact unless regarding the children. I get contact, when he does contact, on everything but. I just respond with brief replies.
-
I have been at this since June 2015. I am I guess no contact. If he emails something about my daughter that needs a response I will answer. But I don't feel the need to be treated like crap any longer. The way I see it. He did this and he needs to fix it. He moved out of state also. At first I was upset. But know I'm just happy not to see him at the grocery store. No more drama. I would love to reconcile. But that would have to come from him as I would never lower my self to put my self back in that situation again
-
Sorry question my 3 girls, I read a lot of threads and have seen some crazy but not on yours, hope I am not reading wrong. Just so I understand are you standing or not?. Ps follow any thread topic that gets my attention.
-
I'm not really doing much of anything. If that makes any sense. I'm just on the fence. Just waiting to see what happens next.
-
I have been at this since June 2015. I am I guess no contact. If he emails something about my daughter that needs a response I will answer. But I don't feel the need to be treated like crap any longer. The way I see it. He did this and he needs to fix it. He moved out of state also. At first I was upset. But know I'm just happy not to see him at the grocery store. No more drama. I would love to reconcile. But that would have to come from him as I would never lower my self to put my self back in that situation again
Good place to be. No drama is great. We were loving it as well. Now, we have to wait and see what he's up to now. It's going to be interesting. He's all over the place, so we are just sitting back and watching the show.
-
I do not post much here ... if ever.
So brief history:
BD Nov 2013
Touch and Go Mar 15
BD2 Dec 2015
OW back in picture Feb16
D&D/NC since.
What prompted me to reply was the reaction to D&D/NC. We do have a son so its almost impossible for full NC as you all know. She pulled the reaction stuff all through Mar trying to regain power, similar ... she put the dog down in April ... little beg and plead in June, set Mediation appt that week. Dropped Mediation and attained a Lawyer and had me served one day after my birthday ... since will cast out looking for sympathy about once a month since.
For me I did not want to go NC, but after dealing with MLC for 2 1/2 years, the monster that came with it I just felt it was for me and my own mental health at that point. She chose to pursue OM thats fine, leave me out of it .. go down that cheese-less tunnel and figure yourself out. Since then I decided to just live.
The "Are you standing" question made me actually ask myself the same .. I still frequent this site and another that deals with MLC but I do not think/consider myself standing at this point ... not for who she currently is now anyways and I am not even sold I would buy the finished product at this point, have not slammed to door on it completely I guess at this point but I am not wrapping my tree with a yellow ribbon waiting for a return either.
In spirit of the thread ... I went NC (for now) as a direct result of my boundary being crossed, not to punish nor to try to wake her up but just because emotionally I could really not take it any longer, I was just not strong enough any longer ... like the shore getting pounded day in and day out by the ocean waves . That was 10 months ago and I feel much more grounded and in control of my life rather than that helpless limbo feeling I felt for several years ..... I can see why one would want to warn the newbies of the content here as many of us are past the shock of it all, accepted MLS takes time and for some of us NC is the only way to preserve ourselves during their crisis.
Hope that all was some what coherent ...lol
-
I am dark, with the occasional dim (birthday acknowledgement ). I work, hang with my friends and my kids, do what I want, when I want and don't concern myself much with my MLCer. I'm happier that way. Any contact with him bothers me, so I just don't. He needs to feel the loss of me. If it's no biggie for him, I'll be in a fine place to move on. D20 is coming in and we're heading for Harry Potter World. I drive off road. I geocache, go to concerts and sleep till noon on weekends. I color with like minded individuals. I'm standing until. I still don't know until what. But I am not standing stll.
-
Divorced a whole week bit no longer standing and very dark. There is no reason to be NC because while X can still annoy me, he doesn't devastate me.
My life is mine and has been for quite awhile. X tookthe chancw of allowing me to "get used to the idea of divorce". I did more than get used to the idea: I embraced and owned it, I worked through the pain and anger. I've forgiven.
I am at the point where I have no expectations about anything. If he comes thriohgh and wants to show remorse, I will probably listen, but I will be okay if he doesn't. I've complet lay let go and am mostly indifferent. What happens to X is his doing. I know what he gave up. So do my kids. That's really all that matters to me.
-
M3G, I know. I am feeling especially tender toward one newbie right now and just hope that no one would ever feel badly for asking "why" as many times as they needed to here on this forum. Better than asking the source of the problem, as well all know too well.
I am huge advocate of no contact immediately in any case where there is emotional abuse. I deeply regret not going no contact immediately. As I have written many times I believe these extreme cases involve mental illness and/or severe personality disorder, and this is also a reason to contact the MLC spouse'a doctor and enlist the help of professionals like a good lawyer, therapist, and psychiatrist to help come up with a plan for communication/insulation right away!
M3G we have similar harassment type MLCer. I think of what you wrote at least once a week, how your ex is using you to stay sane. It is very hard to be the recipient of this type of demented fixation, because as you write this person will not let up even when we refuse to engage.
-
I have been nc for just a week at this point but so far I love it. I find if there is contact it leaves me with hope and expectations. Besides I'm tired of hearing all the derogatory comments that come out of his mouth and I'm tired of him treating me like a long list friend. Nc is working for me at this point so I'll keep it going. As someone else said here, he needs to feel the loss of me as well. Maybe if they feel the loss it'll make them wake up. Maybe not, probably not. Whatever. I like my sanity and less cycling :)
-
Great responses.
Medusa, so glad it's finally over for you. I really thought that you would've been divorced before me, but I know all that he's put you through.
Velika, I figured you knew a newbie that you wanted to help. It's understandable. That's why the disclaimer: I don't want anyone to feel like they're being picked on. Especially newbies, it's a vulnerable time for them. You and I both had, as I do believe Medusa once said on one of my earlier threads, "the jerk of the year". Or something along those lines. Mine was really trying for special a$shole of the year honors.
Caliguy, congrats on taking your life back. You just get tired of the antics, games, and control tactics. It just gets old. I don't know where they get the energy to keep going. Standing just gets to be a chore after too long for some of us. My kids don't want us to get back together. They don't trust him either.
Offroad, Rebecca D&D and NC is so much easier when you make up your mind. Isn't it great how little power they have over us now. They become almost an after thought.
-
I'm D&D and total NC due to DV ( three years ago and 6 months ago) that sent me to the hospital for x-rays.
I have a decent job which I commute too (I have held for two years) and a good car and a home.
My days are spent with family or friends or in a peaceful household of just me and my cat. I have healed from the trauma and triggers. I laugh and feel content and happy. I do not take any $h!te from anybody in RL. I have worked through a lot of the anger and have my self esteem and a lot of my confidence back. :)
I sleep and take magnesium and B12. I haven't quite gotten into getting "involved again. I still have a few trust issues.
I too regret I didn't go NC right off the bat. A lot less damage would have been done to me. From 2010-2013 what was going on was abuse.The relationship had been toxic and abusive from almost the beginning. After I left I was being harassed by phone email and at my place of employment.
Monstered at ( this went on for a lot of the relationship) so again another abnormal "normal" for me. WAY too much contact. I was rigid with fear most of the time and cried almost constantly. I had no one to point that out to me. Some said he wasn't "done" with me. What I didn't know was I could be done with him. He tried to make my life as miserable as possible. Said horrible things just so he could listen to me cry.
I could have used a lot more NC 2x4's in 2010 when I first started posting... :P
Going back to the toxic relationship post D for a year and eight months damn near took my sanity (and my life if my head had hit the pavement harder)..He accused me of being crazy..I wasn't crazy I was being abused. He told my children I was going to commit suicide. Called the troopers on me to take me to be evaluated. I was released. He also provoked and recorded me. Took my oldest D to try to get an order of protection against me..(I was trying to leave). He took my car and my bank card and stranded me. This only a small part of the story. The game playing and lies and drama were going to continue until I ended it.
I wasn't dealing with an MLCer as I thought I was. I was dealing with an NPD as my mother had one. LBSer's need to put themselves and their physical, mental emotional and spiritual safety first. Do not underestimate the un-predictably of an MLCer or an underlying personality disorder.
With NC you protect you from anymore damage.
-
I am done but not divorced yet. We have legal separation filed with court and I filed for the divorce part of it nearly 2 weeks ago. I went NC at about 2 months post-BD except dealing with finances and S5 and visitation. It has been amazing! No longer do I deal with his robot speeches or monster because I don't say anything or ask anything outside of these parameters. Everything is a business transaction. I've been strong in my stance when it comes to my convictions. I don't waiver. He knows he cannot mess with me. I am compassionate, though, at times. I do pray for him. I also allowed for him to stall spousal support as he's broke, but will get a big chunk when his father's land is sold in winter/spring. I haven't been a complete b!tc#.
My3girls: I agreed to not move out of state without going to court but had no plans anyway. If you don't have a legal document stating you can't move, then you can move to wherever the heck you want unless he takes you to court. But, since he moved out of state, abandoning you and shacking up with OW, doesn't look good in a judge's eyes. Keep NC and continue being the empowered, amazing, strong goddess this MLC blessed you to be!
I have dated on and off, mostly lunch dates, but a few graduated to a few dates and intimacy. A platonic male friend turned into something more this week but now he's all messed up over it, mostly because he can't let go of a girlfriend he broke up with 18 months ago. You'd think I'D be the one with emotional issues after sex! Not so. Amazing how much clarity I have. I know what I want and won't settle. I certainly am not going to put up with a cry baby over an ex. Ugh. I don't want a serious relationship which is why I thought platonic guy would work out because he's stuck on ex. I know, sounds kooky but I actually WANT a guy who isn't ready to marry me tomorrow and any guarantee is appealing. My take on my freedom is I'm an adult. I am honest with dates. Some won't settle for less than a full-blown relationship and that's ok. We say our good-byes. I don't lead anyone on. I am an empowered, intelligent, beautiful, funny woman whose self-esteem and sparkling personality were destroyed the last 2 years by my H's MLC. Now that I'm way far into my recovery (18 months of MLC plus 5 months post-BD), I will not settle and also won't sit around crying over H. And, though many don't think this is a long enough time to start dating or be done, trust me. I was fantasizing about leaving HIM months prior to BD. I think in many ways he knew and beat me to the punch. I felt so stuck and miserable. Never again!
-
More, I love your spark!
I haven't dated, or seen anyone. I'm not against it, just not in the financial position I want to be in be able to focus on anyone but the kids. Looking forward to it. There is a guy that I'm interested in, that seems to be interested in me. So, who knows. I just want to be able to have something more to offer at this point.
Besides launching a business and trying to get website going are my main priority for now. Not to mention another new business venture that I'm really happy with. I'm loving my newfound freedom. I leave him to his antics, it's just the way it is. He'll be crazy until he's not anymore as Rugged Endurance says. I'm good with that. So long as he stays in his little world. I guess Lala land isn't all it's cracked up to be.
-
My3girls,
You certainly must have your hands full. I see how dating is a challenge. I've been lucky to find a few guys who either travel for work or work from home. I consult and write from home so it's great to be able to go on lunch dates and hang out after when S5 is in school and after school. I had to get creative because H only takes S5 about 10% of the time and I'm not gonna stick my son with a babysitter every night. So, this is what is working for me. Not sure how I keep finding these particular men but I guess if they are self-employed or work from home we have the same drive and other stuff in common. It was too much work to try to schedule dates with guys who worked 9 to 5.
I really feel for you and your dilemma of your H moving closer to you. I broke the NC rule today to inform H our good friend's fiancee died of an overdose and wake is tonight. He said he was glad I thought of him. Got me all pissy. NO I am NOT thinking of you so don't flatter yourself. You NEEDED to know this information and since you don't talk to any of our friends due to your shame and guilt I was the only person to reach you. Ugh.
-
My3girls,
You certainly must have your hands full. I see how dating is a challenge. I've been lucky to find a few guys who either travel for work or work from home. I consult and write from home so it's great to be able to go on lunch dates and hang out after when S5 is in school and after school. I had to get creative because H only takes S5 about 10% of the time and I'm not gonna stick my son with a babysitter every night. So, this is what is working for me. Not sure how I keep finding these particular men but I guess if they are self-employed or work from home we have the same drive and other stuff in common. It was too much work to try to schedule dates with guys who worked 9 to 5.
I really feel for you and your dilemma of your H moving closer to you. I broke the NC rule today to inform H our good friend's fiancee died of an overdose and wake is tonight. He said he was glad I thought of him. Got me all pissy. NO I am NOT thinking of you so don't flatter yourself. You NEEDED to know this information and since you don't talk to any of our friends due to your shame and guilt I was the only person to reach you. Ugh.
PM me, we should talk. ;)
Glad you're meeting men that seem to understand where you're coming from. The guy I've met has a business as well: investor and works another job. He's a great guy, could really be something, if we both decide to go that route. Just too busy at the moment to really give it a go.
They seem to think that everything is about them. That's the biggest reason I went NC, got tired of that massive EGO and all that pride. Self-centered, self-absorbed and selfish. Who has time for them while raising my kids? I will be working from home for the most part, so I really can appreciate what you do. I'm going to be monetizing my blog soon, and starting another one for the business that I'm launching.
Have to get my kids to do the same. They'll be blogging, have a website, and getting on Youtube. Thank God we homeschool. MD is graduating a year early at 17 yrs this year, and YD 12yr is on track to graduate early as well. Life has been really crazy. I have no clue with OD 21 yrs is going to do. She's a professional make up artist. A pretty good one. Just wish she could get her life together.
Will be volunteering as well. Got to keep it moving. All the things I wanted to do while I was married that caused too much friction and chaos for me to handle. I just hope that he's just blowing smoke, if you know what I mean. I have a suspicion that since he hasn't said anything since that day, he may have been "fishing" to see what I would say or do. He no longer has the ability to bait me. Sorry, that ship has also sailed.
Funny, I just don't seem to be worried about it. In the past, I would've had a cow. Now, nothing. I really do believe: Not my circus, not my monkeys.
-
M3G,
I am not divorced yet, though final orders were supposed to be filed last month, he is dragging his feet. For the most part we are NC except if it has to do with final orders. In most cases I let my attorney handle it though did have contact with him last night that reminded me why I went NC in the first place. For me NC was best for me. I honestly have no desire to see or speak to him and since we do not have children together there really isn't a reason to have to talk to him.
Someone I dated long ago came back into my life about 8 months after he moved out. He and I have been seeing each other regularly but he understands that right now I am not ready for any serious commitment though he has expressed the desire for me to move closer to where he is. I just don't want to make any serious decisions until this is over and I have had a chance to clear my head more.
My days are spent working on building the Design/Development company I am a partner in and building the new company I just opened on my own. Since I work from home, I work the hours that are convenient for me and when I can't sleep then I just work to take my mind of things. Weekends are spent with my kids and grandkids, with two new babies there is always a lot going on. Of course my other babies (3 horses) keep me occupied as well. Their antics definitely keep me on my toes.
-
HI All,
I just saw this discussion, and just in time as I have went NC. I was tired of Hoping that something would change, cause with each Text I responded to I had Hope
Hope=Expectations, and that vicious cycle was keeping me stuck. Its time to get on with life.
The Brief Story about contact is.Almost every morning id get a "God bless you K , Hope you have a good day" they were almost always the same, Sometimes they were more detailed, and for the past 3 months he would even include a Little Cute Meme.. ::)
I Stopped replying Nov 6th.. he continued for about 2 weeks, but they since have stopped altogether. Which ill admit has really shook me.but its something I did for me.i also believe it makes no difference either way if he comes back or not.
thanks for starting the discussion, its interesting to see what others are going thru.
-
Same with me. Each text was hopeful and the. The hopes were gone. Crash.
Hope _ expectations :(
-
So NC has been working pretty well for the ones that use it. Sanity and peace are worth it. I know that it can be really difficult to continue with the status quo when you're dealing with someone that is only interested in maintaining control.
D&D works well with those who have smaller kids. It can't be helped. Our kids seem to be another way that they try to maintain control. Mine are old enough to be able to decide if they really want to deal with him or not. We haven't heard anything more about him moving back to the state, so it might have been a touch and go. Not sure. Or maybe a fishing expedition.
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.
-
Here's the blog on 'No contact'. NC is not usually recommended unless the mlcer is violent but I'm not sure you mean the same thing by NC.
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/communication/the-no-contact-boundary-beware/
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/communication/no-contact_clearing-up-the-confusion/
-
M3G why do you think this?
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.
-
I've tried to go NC. But only lasted a few days. I always fell Right back into it.
I've went NC after months of praying about this whole thing.. For me, God opened my eyes to some harsh realities I have not wanted to face... He gave me a second chance at life. (I was very ill and almost died.) Its time for me to live that and be my best Me! Am I saying I wouldn't take him back... Absolutely not,I still think he's my soul mate. But right now I have to put him away.. And I still don't think it will make one bit of difference weather he comes out of this or not
-
I like the idea of this tread M3G. It gives a perspective of where the more "mature" LBS has got to!
Even with 3 kids aged from 21 to 11 my contact with X is extremely limited. I have no inclination at all to contact her unless it is absolutely necessary and regards the kids. She does try and contact me fairly regularly often with angry spewing which is very easy to ignore. I do feel sorry for her as my kids have said that she seems to be looking for the end of the rainbow, but keeps moving in the opposite direction. There is nothing that attracts me to her any more and in any dealings I try and treat her as I would any other acquaintance. I find this to a good place to be as any responses that I make to her are not emotionally linked. Her latest way of indirectly communicating with me is to pass messages to me through my kids.
As far as dating, I have not made a conscious effort to go out looking. I have no intention of becoming a recluse, but am not going to try and force myself into any form of relationship. With all the internal work done I would rate most people on this site as being quite a catch by the way!!
-
Hi everyone,
I have been NC 2 months now. We have 2 teenagers and I see them whenever I want. I just work around her schedule this way we don't have to see each other. I enacted it for peace and sanity because she has a nasty Monster. It works.
She has her own MLC er NC on me so that also helps . We have a NC standoff apparently.
Now NC has given me plenty of time to analyze our marriage. It has made me question many aspects of our dysfunction. Honestly it has made me question as to whether I want to be with this woman anymore. Maybe that's the point of NC.
I am also a realist. If there is any hope for a reconnection than NC cannot go on forever. I am surprisingly in a state of numbness in regards to my W. Again, maybe that's the point. I had to get my feelings for her under control.
My W placed us in Limbo. I'm learning that I don't like Limbo. I want to break out of Limbo. Maybe NC finally gives me the nerve to break out.
I had to get my desire for her under control. It's just not there anymore and that's a good thing because she used it to her advantage. So in a way, we are both finally on the same playing field in regards to our emotional detachment.
I also have to add that I clearly stated to her why I had to go NC. My IC says its important that she understand. She was particularly abusive one night so I left. Her raging anger and abuse crossed my boundary. So now she knows what she must do to remedy the situation. Hahaha, I'm not holding my breath. We will see what happens.
-
Hi my3g
I was a regular contibuter to HS but since my D has been final I have found it hard to contribute.
I know my H will not return
My H has not seen his son for over a year and his daughter for nearly 2. He has tried but both kids do not want him in their life - his attempts to reverse this have been utterly pathetic and without real feeling. We have very little need to contact H and for me I have only really started to heal since going NC. Before I looked and held on to every little crumb that came my way - over anaylsing his every move and expecting at every turn for him to come home.
I know I don't want him - saw a photo of him yesterday at his xmas function and he looked repulsive - but I feel I want someone in my life but it's hard to start again. I have lots of friends, my life is ultra busy but deep down below the surface I miss that certain intimacy of a longterm partner . It is also such a longtime since I have dated ... Do I read signs wrong ... I have several male friends who constantly text me but is this just friendship ??? And shouldn't I be just happy with friendship ... I am finding this next stage quite tricky - I do not ever want to be desperate to have just any man in my life...
Bit of a ramble but I guess some of you will understand
SC
-
M3G, I will send you a pm. Strongcurrent, you will know when you are ready to date or take friendships further. I think it is important to be able to say, "I am done with my MLCer entirely," first and foremost. I became done early on--3 months post BD because I lived in MLC hell with H for 18 months prior. I fantasized leaving HIM but was committed to making it work. A platonic male friend and I just evolved from friendship (texts mostly but also spent time together) to a physical relationship. I don't consider him a boyfriend and am clear I do not want a relationship. I had to express my interest in him first. He is younger and I think was intimidated by me so I doubt he would have ever started that discussion. If you can imagine dating, kissing, etc. any of these men, then you will likely need to be the one who starts the discussion. Some may be interested in taking the friendship further, others may not. Don't take it personal if they don't. It's not you. Rejection is God's protection. I am sure there are men who are happy to see you are single. You'd be surprised.
-
Newbies, read at your own risk.
This thread is for those that have been at this for a while, and will soon be or have been divorced. This is for anyone that has to go D&D or NC for your own personal sanity, safety, or just because you want to. To be able to have a real discussion without being lectured or attacked for your D&D or NC stance. I know the usual suspects will not be able to resist having their say, but this is going to be kept on topic. Despite some of their best efforts. Threads have topics for a reason: because people want to do discuss a particular topic. If this steps on your toes...
I personally can't deal with fresh newbies asking the same questions over and over again, any longer. This forum has so many good threads that answer most, if not all of their questions. And, does a great job as well. I don't want to have to relive any of the past through them any longer. That's all behind me now. But, I digress.. The purpose of this thread is to see how things are going for those who are beyond the "why?" question, and have moved on to GAL. How are you coping, doing, making out, whatever... Especially if you're D&D or NC.
I personally am enjoying being single, for the time being. The XH started this in 2008 and went full MLC in 2014. I had been bombed dropped 3x's before I had had enough, and gave him the divorce he so desperately wanted. We finalized it November 2015.
Now he has told the kids that he's moving back to our state ( just check out my main thread for all the gory details ) in a few months. And, wants to have the kids over the weekends. Of course he hasn't said a word to me. Asked the kids to ask me if it was going to be alright with me. ::) Typical. This is out of the blue and very sudden. Not sure what caused this turn of events. Not even sure if the OW/AD is moving with him. At any rate, he will be a little less than 2 hrs away, instead of living on an island. I'm sure this is yet another EA.
Truthfully I was enjoying the space, peace, and distance. This is going to complicate things a little, since the girls and I are planning on moving to TX after MD graduates. So this may be a ploy to keep us trapped in the state. All else has failed, so I guess this is his last attempt to force me to "stay on the shelf", and weigh anchor again. Not happening.
My kids are detached for the most part as well. In other words, if he wants contact, he has to contact them. They're tired of game playing, and can recognize when he's trying to be manipulative as well. They've become very savvy lately. We have settled into a life that so far, he hasn't really been a part of. We're just doing what we have to do to move beyond this mess, and it's been a good thing that he was so far away. The kids aren't fazed at this new turn of events. They've learned to go with the flow, just like mom.
Since he's coming back the kids now have a new motivation to get their personal businesses going. They really want to get out of this state. They liked him being so far away. He hasn't exactly been there. They're D&D, I'm NC.
How are some of you that have taken the same route doing? I know that at this point my kids don't even want me and the XH to reconcile. Yes he's done that much damage. Anyone else finding healing by being able to focus on yourself and/or your kids if you have them?
How is rebuilding your life coming along? How are you feeling these days? Are you considering dating or have you decided to be single for a while? Are you still hoping to reconcile? Have your kids started to get to a place where they are feeling more confident and healthier?
Where are you at this point of your journey?
Can't wait to hear your thoughts.
Calamity,
Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent? There are different types of abuse: violence is only one of them. Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the other ones before speaking out about why the rest of us shouldn't remain NC. Here's a link take a look and then get back to us. http://www.lifeskillsintl.org/Signs_of_abuse.html According to Dr. Paul Hegstrom there are 21 different types of abuse. So, maybe those of us here are tired of dealing with the other forms. Toxic behavior is still toxic, we don't have to be hit to be hurt.
It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway. That bothers you :o. This constant need to remind other adults about articles that we have read, and decided to make our own decisions about; is clearly a matter of your discomfort with our choice. If you don't like what we post: stay off the thread. Period. Enough already, it's clear that you don't agree. So this is obviously a case of us agreeing to disagree. Period.
We have made this decision and can live with it. You don't agree, but that's not our problem. It's yours and the others that agree with you. This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about. I know that you've read enough of my posts to know that I pull no punches.
-
M3G why do you think this?
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.
I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you: It means that we can control how much nonsense we are willing to deal with concerning them. How much time, energy, and effort that we are going to let them control concerning us. How much space we are going to let them rent in our heads for free. Lastly, how much longer we are we going to empower them. They've been in control for long enough: at our expense. Why be jerked around for years and years? And with no guarantees?
I have 3 girls to teach how to be treated by the person that is supposed to love you. I have 3 sets of eyes watching, and quite frankly, I'm more concerned at this point about how it's affecting them. Especially their future marriages. MLC seems to be a generational curse in some families. I know it's been in both mine and my XH's.
If you need more of an explanation than that, might I suggest the book, "Controlling People", by Patricia Evans.
-
I like the idea of this tread M3G. It gives a perspective of where the more "mature" LBS has got to!
This was my hope for this thread. Those of us who have chosen this route deserve to be able to talk about it without being lectured, or having to constantly told that our stance is not a good one. If it works for you personally, go for it. This is who this thread is for.
Thanks for the support Hardwork. ;D
-
Quote from: xyzcf on December 14, 2016, 07:57:36 PM
M3G why do you think this?
Quote
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.
I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you:
I asked a simple question, that's all.
It is not always possible to be in "control" of the communication. I did not want LBSers who must interact with their spouse to feel like they are failing if they cannot always enforce their boundaries.
As much as you would like this thread to ONLY be commented on by people who totally agree with you, that is not the way that Hero's Spouse works. No thread is off limits to any member, regardless of any rules that you try to impose.
LBSers, including newbies are going to read all threads in their search for understanding of this catastrophic event. Each LBSer will choose for themselves what works for them in their particular situation. Respect for differing opinions is always appreciated and we can learn from each other in spite of having a different view point.
-
Quote from: xyzcf on December 14, 2016, 07:57:36 PM
M3G why do you think this?
Quote
We need to be the ones to control the communication, no matter what.
I do believe that that is self explanatory. The only people we can control are ourselves. But since you need this spelled out for you:
I asked a simple question, that's all.
It is not always possible to be in "control" of the communication. I did not want LBSers who must interact with their spouse to feel like they are failing if they cannot always enforce their boundaries.
As much as you would like this thread to ONLY be commented on by people who totally agree with you, that is not the way that Hero's Spouse works. No thread is off limits to any member, regardless of any rules that you try to impose.
LBSers, including newbies are going to read all threads in their search for understanding of this catastrophic event. Each LBSer will choose for themselves what works for them in their particular situation. Respect for differing opinions is always appreciated and we can learn from each other in spite of having a different view point.
It's not a one size fits all. Period. As I have stated, I will respectfully agree to disagree with you. This is the last time I'm going to address you on this. Feel free to continue posting, but I'm staying on topic.
You can control unnecessary communication. Legal or concerning the kids is different, and I would suggest to anyone that even that be done through a lawyer to avoid toxicity. That is a real boundary that shouldn't be crossed. If you subject yourself to further abuse, that is your choice. No one can make that choice for you, but for those of us who choose not to... Again, our choice.
I won't be cherry picking, and won't be responding anymore to anyone that does. I didn't impose any rules, hence the disclaimer. I don't normally respond to you on threads. I thought by now you would've have gotten the hint. ;) And that is my choice.
-
Caliguy, Watcher and Hardwork,
Thanks for posting, it's nice to see the male take on this. From what I understand many times you are forced into NC against your wishes. Thanks for sharing. I hope that this thread gives you support and encouragement in your journeys.
-
Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent?
This is a discussion thread which I presume means a discussion with different points of view. We post on the forum for support, advice, sharing among other things. If you are shutting down anyone who disagrees with you what's the point of a forum?
The reader can chose to define violence as more than physical violence. I agree that any contact with a mlcer could be regarded as abuse IF the lbs is not detached.
It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway.
The reason I posted the link was that it was not obvious to me that everyone on this thread had read about NC. I know for a fact that some people only read the forum without posting, some post without ever reading the articles.
I believe 'no contact' is very misunderstood. IF you are not standing, fine, go no contact but if standing, then I would be very careful. Without communication any chance at reconciliation OR some kind of normal relationship would be impossible.
This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about.
So as I said, you want to silence anyone who disagrees?
-
I think that if a MLCer recovers at a certain point and attempts to reach out in a meaningful and responsible way, it is always possible to become less dim or dark and take a wait-and-see approach using a lot of caution.
Until then, I think that very low contact is important, both for the LBS protection and also not to make a volatile situation worse.
Many highly volatile, abusive, "monster" MLCers have behaviors that resemble mental illness, severe personality disorder like NPD, and addiction -- and in fact this may be what is going on. There are many great resources online for these and none involve "paving the way." Most identify the importance of responding and not reacting and of firm boundaries. I feel the "grey rock" or "medium chill" technique is a very useful tool for someone dealing with manipulation and abuse.
I also think Larry Bilotta has an idea along these lines, be nice and pleasant but no time for MLCer. Can't talk, can't visit, can't stay. Act as though you have just found out that your MLCer has been institutionalized.
I feel that telling a newbie to detach or do the 180 is like telling someone whose home was just bombed out that they need to detach from the home, or act cheerful and busy so the home can be rebuilt. Few in that level of emotional devastation can manage this. In this case, low/no contact is a very helpful realistic guideline that protects a vulnerable LBS from an irrational and aggressive MLCer.
One fantastic resource online that OffRoad recommended is Out of the Fog. It has really great, detailed guidelines for dealing with people with suspected or diagnosed personality disorder/mental illness.
I am someone who spent several months engaging with MLCer not understanding what was going on. Then I attempted a more detached style of interaction. While this was valuable from an observation standpoint, he ended up cycling back into aggressive/monster state and continues to cycle from attempts at being "friendly" to being angry and controlling even with almost no input from me. All to say, no contact may reveal just how little we have to do with any of this.
I also feel in terms of LBS personal growth no contact is invaluable. It has helped me have time to reflect, learn from this experience, and above all I feel really learn that I am responsible for my own responses to things, and that ultimately what is going to make me feel good or bad are my own actions and behavior. As Watcher writes, this distance is a time to really look back and look forward.
-
Clearly you are not getting what this thread is all about. Please reread the first 3 lines, and the last line of the paragraph. Your toes must really hurt. Violent?
This is a discussion thread which I presume means a discussion with different points of view. We post on the forum for support, advice, sharing among other things. If you are shutting down anyone who disagrees with you what's the point of a forum?
The reader can chose to define violence as more than physical violence. I agree that any contact with a mlcer could be regarded as abuse IF the lbs is not detached.
It's obvious to anyone that is reading the posts on this thread that we have all read about NC. And, still made this decision anyway.
The reason I posted the link was that it was not obvious to me that everyone on this thread had read about NC. I know for a fact that some people only read the forum without posting, some post without ever reading the articles.
I believe 'no contact' is very misunderstood. IF you are not standing, fine, go no contact but if standing, then I would be very careful. Without communication any chance at reconciliation OR some kind of normal relationship would be impossible.
This is a thread where apparently those who are tired of being silenced on this issue are speaking out about it. As I have stated in the first post, as a usual suspect: you've had your say. Now it's time to continue to have ours. So, I hope that I've made myself clear on what this thread is about.
So as I said, you want to silence anyone who disagrees?
The only thing your post is implying, at least to me. Is that you feel that we who are reading or posting on this thread are incapable of and/or lacking: sound judgment, the ability to make our own decisions based on the information provided, that we don't understand what it is we are doing, and that we are making a poor choice according to your assessment of OUR PERSONAL SITUATIONS.
At the very least, it is questioning our intelligence, critical thinking skills, and an ability to assess our our situations to come to the right conclusions for ourselves and our families. Not to mention that you aren't privy to anyone's complete situation, and making a statement that LBSers need to be careful is a blanket one size fits all, within a complex set of circumstances.
Besides your line of reasoning ( and stance ) is based on your own personal decision to not go NC. We can decide for ourselves what we are going to do, we ( those that have made this decision ) really don't need others to remind us of their personal decisions not to NC, there are enough threads for that stance already. That debate is tired and old, and enough threads have been hijacked with this issue.
I'll just leave this right here.
-
As always Velika, well said.
-
I have stated that this thread was for those who wanted to post without being lectured, attacked, and I should have added admonished for their stance.
I have noticed that people who have been standing for a number of years, seem to have a problem with those of us who have chosen NC. I have seen many defend the "Paving the Way" stance.
Here is my take on PTW within my own situation. I regret that I even tried. Not only did it make my situation worse, but it caused my children to be caught up in a crossfire of the XH's making that has fundamentally changed them.
- We lost our home, and our dog.
- I was financially ruined, something that I'm just now starting to recover slowly from.
- One of XH sisters' testified against me during the custody hearing: alleging that I abused my kids.
- I had to quit my job shortly before the divorce to move in with my folks, at which he promptly deposited $600 for 2 months straight after the judge granted me the psychological evaluations ( for him and myself ) I requested. Just so I couldn't pay for them. And they were never done.
- My girls therapist didn't believe them at about their dad at first and pressured them to maintain contact; until he found out about their dad not telling them that he was living with AD until they got to their apartment during visitation.
- We have moved 3x's since the divorce and will be moving again the summer.
- XH refuses to comply with the divorce decree, and custody arrangement. I'm NC, he's not. ( divorce is only a piece of paper ).
- I've lost friends over his "smear campaign" because they don't want to get involved.
- The kids had to deal with him posting the OW/AD on facebook so that they and all of their friends found about about her at the same time.
- We have had to watch my OD self destruct, and continue on that path.
- I've dealt with monstering from XH and OD until I went NC with him and D&D with her.
- My younger girls don't want him to come back, and don't want me to reconcile either. That's saying something.
And those are just the highlights.
Most of this was while PTW. So, NC was also for my kids protection as well. So, the articles although well thought out and researched have missed something vital: not everyone is willing continue on with this type situation based on their own needs at the time.
There comes a time with NC is a good thing, and may be the only thing that brings healing. It's a way for those of us who are no longer clinging to the past to move on in a healthy way. It's not for everyone, but for those of us who chose it: it works. No matter what the outcome. Let those who have their MLCers' back tell the rest of us what they think. If yours hasn't come back, then it's all speculation at best. Delusional at worst.
For those of you who want an alternate article to have another take on NC follow the link. link.https://thestagesandlessonsofmidlife.org/the-midlife-spouse-let-them-go/
RCR has done a great job with her research and articles, but, as I tell my kids: There's always a 3rd option. In other words there are other voices, thought and research on the subject. Take a look if you're so inclined.
-
At the risk of getting scolded by My3girls for daring to post on this thread, I think being reminded of the articles is a good thing. Even though they may have been read at one point, as you move through this process different things stand out or become more relevant. Its always good to go back and review information.
As for NC, I never went NC with my H but then again I never initiated contact either. (and we aren't talking about abusive, dangerous spouses here) I think responding to contact is vital to reconciliation if that is a possibility in the future. I was distant but if he called or texted I responded on my own schedule. I never left him out in the dark even if he was being monster. If he was monster, I called him on it and politely told him he could talk to me when he could do so in a respectful, decent manner and I then ended our call/text or whatever.
I think a lot of people are getting hope confused with expectations. It is entirely possible and effective to have hope without expectations. That is what we call detachment. It works, its healing, but it does leave the door open without obliterating our hearts when they run back into the tunnel. Live like they aren't coming back for yourself, but that doesn't mean you have to jettison hope at the same time.
M3girls you have a right to a discussion thread, however you do not have to be so "monster" to the people who have a difference of opinion and choose to discuss it here. The way you choose to speak to the people you disagree with is rude and condescending and not in the spirit of Hero's Spouse..........
-
Slow fade, Monstering, really? I think that when people tell the truth without sugar coating it, they get a lot of flack as well. I also believe there is a fine line between Paving the Way and Co dependent behavior.
-
This is reason for this thread. For some reason on this forum, there are many people who don't like certain styles of the people posting: GET OVER IT. This is a discussion, and as long as the rules aren't being broken then the threads should continue with the topics at hand.
The need for voices of descent is valued, but not to point where the topics ( all that we are discussing on this thread ) get lost because a few people want to get pick apart one particular sticking point. Too many times people have been scared off of threads because someone's feeling got hurt, and they wanted the world to know it. That takes away from others who may need to vent, or otherwise express themselves on the one place that they can. HERE! You're feelings are no more important than anyone else's and it's high time someone pointed that out.
No one on the outside knows what we are all going through, and for once we should be able to have a thread where the PTW people read and see where we are coming from. But that doesn't happen here. Why? Because PTW's feel threatened by those of us saying that it might not work in all cases: especially theirs. I said it.
If this hurts your sensibilities then be honest enough to say so without hiding behind articles and "other peoples'" feelings. Speak for yourselves and stop trying to speak for others who may or may not agree with you. I speak for myself and will not make any apologies for doing so. I've come a long way, and being PC on this thread is no longer an option for me. I stay within the parameters of the forum and will continue to do so. I'm not running an adult day care, those days are over. My parents were good enough to teach me that not everyone is going to agree with, like or even care about what you say or think. Maybe that's a lesson that should be considered today.
At least I'm willing to engage, and others want to be able to say what's on their minds as well. Condescending? Depends on who you talk to.
-
M3G, I agree with you.
I think the healthiest place anyone can get to is to not want to be with someone who doesn't love, value, respect, or want you.
Many of us find bomb drop confusing because we had believed that many of these things were true. It is possible and even likely in some cases this was true and there is a biophysical/neurobiological reason for this apparently sudden change (whether temporary or permanent), but it is also possible that our spouse has a longstanding personality disorder or underlying condition we were unaware of or were vaguely aware of but didn't understand.
My feeling is now, once bomb drop hits -- it is up to our spouse to demonstrate that they really were the person we had believed. If they cannot do this, we must accept that they either have tragically changed and won't accept help (or cannot be helped), or that we did not have the ability to see/understand clues that they weren't the person we wanted them to be or believed them to be -- and after we have gone through the grief process get to a point where we simply energetically, authentically don't accept this, not in anger or protest but because something has changed in us where we cannot accept a person who cannot be loving or respectful to us.
I think No/Low contact is a way to get to this point. I feel like M3G -- that what my husband did was a betrayal and a violation, but I betrayed and violated myself even more by asking someone who was being so disrespectful to stay with me.
I notice again and again in comments by people who have moved on, that they are in relationships now that they never had before, with a kind of deep love and solid feeling that is the best they have known. I feel this is no accident. I believe what many of these people write, that you want to get to a place where you love yourself in a way that you will only accept someone who loves you and themselves the same way.
Ideally, for your MLC spouse's own growth, Low/No Contact is also -- energetically -- a barrier that will help them grow as well. If they lose something they later realize was valuable through their own behavior, this is a chance for them to truly develop as a person.
-
Thanks Velika. :D
This the last thing that I'm going to say on this bend in the road. I, nor is anyone else, responsible for others perceptions of anything they read. We post you decide how you're going to take it. None of us is responsible for anyone else's feelings, thoughts or way of handling what you decide ( and it is your choice ) to continue reading.
-
Besides your line of reasoning ( and stance ) is based on your own personal decision to not go NC. We can decide for ourselves what we are going to do, we ( those that have made this decision ) really don't need others to remind us of their personal decisions not to NC, there are enough threads for that stance already. That debate is tired and old, and enough threads have been hijacked with this issue.
Me? I have no contact with my x. We had lots of contact at first then after a year, I began to avoid him and from there we gradually ceased contact. I was not detached enough to handle seeing him or talking to him; it took me a week to recover each time so... In retrospect this might have been a mistake because he was definitely a clinger.
I think the terms 'dim', 'dark', 'no contact' and 'paving the way' are getting confused; I posted the links for clarification.
BTW, we always recommend that the lbs protects his/herself financially. No matter what.
-
Velika, as usual, you have delivered a well thought out post. I, too, had way too much interaction for 16 months. How many times did I have to beat my head against a brick wall ? I have a low energy wallower that is full on monster thoughout the mlc. I admit, a lot of the monster was from my doing. It has been really quiet for the both of us for 2 months now with NC.
I am NC , like I said, but I also realize that I am going to have to be receptive at some point but I will not accept her current behavior. I read RCR all the time. There is nothing wrong with learning. In my situation this whole MLC has read like a textbook. It's been pretty point on.
At this moment, NC is needed for me. Without it I would not be able to run a house nor take care of my 2 kids. The mlc er has the house and the kids in my situation. That's my doing. I am at my best mentally at this moment.
I believe that I am paving the way, even in NC. I haven't turned away from her or my kids. I just recognize, for everyones sake, especially my boys, that mom and dad just cannot be around each other at this moment.
It's sounds crazy, but I do want a future with this woman. However, I can't allow her to keep knocking the crap out of me. There is a fine line between both philosophies. It simply does not have to be one or the other in all cases. It's all about survival, plain and simple. I choose to survive and am very appreciate to all the help that I can get from all sides.
THANKS
-
I believe that I am paving the way, even in NC. I haven't turned away from her or my kids. I just recognize, for everyones sake, especially my boys, that mom and dad just cannot be around each other at this moment.
It's sounds crazy, but I do want a future with this woman. However, I can't allow her to keep knocking the crap out of me. There is a fine line between both philosophies. It simply does not have to be one or the other in all cases. It's all about survival, plain and simple. I choose to survive and am very appreciate to all the help that I can get from all sides.
This is exactly right Watcher......
-
Besides your line of reasoning ( and stance ) is based on your own personal decision to not go NC. We can decide for ourselves what we are going to do, we ( those that have made this decision ) really don't need others to remind us of their personal decisions not to NC, there are enough threads for that stance already. That debate is tired and old, and enough threads have been hijacked with this issue.
Me? I have no contact with my x. We had lots of contact at first then after a year, I began to avoid him and from there we gradually ceased contact. I was not detached enough to handle seeing him or talking to him; it took me a week to recover each time so... In retrospect this might have been a mistake because he was definitely a clinger.
I think the terms 'dim', 'dark', 'no contact' and 'paving the way' are getting confused; I posted the links for clarification.
BTW, we always recommend that the lbs protects his/herself financially. No matter what.
Now, I'm lost. What was your original point? We are discussing what happened if you're in the process of, or already divorced and either D&D or NC. How things have been going since, and how things are going for LBSers now.
I really don't understand what you are trying to convey here. Are you telling us about how things are since, or am I missing something? That was the original reasoning behind this thread. The hope that we could talk about our new lives to encourage and give hope to one another. Can you please clarify if that's why you are posting, just make sure we're on the same page. If not, that's up to you, but this is supposed to be a clearing of the head type of thread, with the focus on the LBSer not the MLCEr.
-
Velika, as usual, you have delivered a well thought out post. I, too, had way too much interaction for 16 months. How many times did I have to beat my head against a brick wall ? I have a low energy wallower that is full on monster thoughout the mlc. I admit, a lot of the monster was from my doing. It has been really quiet for the both of us for 2 months now with NC.
I am NC , like I said, but I also realize that I am going to have to be receptive at some point but I will not accept her current behavior. I read RCR all the time. There is nothing wrong with learning. In my situation this whole MLC has read like a textbook. It's been pretty point on.
At this moment, NC is needed for me. Without it I would not be able to run a house nor take care of my 2 kids. The mlc er has the house and the kids in my situation. That's my doing. I am at my best mentally at this moment.
I believe that I am paving the way, even in NC. I haven't turned away from her or my kids. I just recognize, for everyones sake, especially my boys, that mom and dad just cannot be around each other at this moment.
It's sounds crazy, but I do want a future with this woman. However, I can't allow her to keep knocking the crap out of me. There is a fine line between both philosophies. It simply does not have to be one or the other in all cases. It's all about survival, plain and simple. I choose to survive and am very appreciate to all the help that I can get from all sides.
THANKS
This post makes sense. It's a situational deal. This is a great example of how you are handling it. Thanks Watcher for getting us back on topic.
-
Do you mean that all of you on this thread are not standers? And, I have no opinion on whether or not a person is a stander.
My point is, be clear about what 'no contact' means IF you are standing. If not it doesn't matter if there's contact or not.
-
"How is rebuilding your life coming along? How are you feeling these days? Are you considering dating or have you decided to be single for a while? Are you still hoping to reconcile? Have your kids started to get to a place where they are feeling more confident and healthier? Where are you at this point of your journey?"
Nice thread idea and I agree that the "get over it" and hold everyone accountable voice isnt always embraced here. Admittedly I have not read all the responses yet but wanted to add my experience.
I am not a stander and I have limited contact with my xw. With distance (2.5yrs since bd, divorced 16 months) I see things differently. I (most of us) was ghosted out of an 18 year relationship. I am not NC because we have young kids but after a while of constant conversation with her I have realized she is generally a miserable human being and have no room in my life for someone like that. I still have compassion for her and care about her as a human being but that is all. I understand why she is miserable but will not tolerate it. I put up with to much in my marriage to continue to subject myself to it in divorce. I will say this about mlc... When someone changes their values they change who they are. An affair is a drastic shift against most people values and regardless of "why", most of them did it.
I am in full rebuild mode but before I could start rebuilding my life I had to rebuild myself. That took a lot of time and effort. I never think about getting back together, I dont want that anymore. I am dating someone now and it has been a great opportunity for me to learn about myself in a relationship and make some necessary adjustments. Only a few months in but so far she has exceed my expectations in every way simply by being emotionally mature, thoughtful and reliable. I stay in the present and enjoy the moment. If I do the right things today, tomorrow will take care of itself. This applies to kids, work, relationship, fitness etc. My kids healing has mirrored my own. Im glad I was a stander but think long term limbo is harmful, especially to younger kids. They need us to lead by example that it is safe to move on.
I have learned so much that I can finally say I am greatful this happened. In hindsight my xw has never been a happy person. She has always carried anger and been pessimistic, just the opposite of me. We were a perfect match for all the wrong reasons. I absolutely paired with someone that would force me to face and resolve my childhood issues! I am so much happier today than I have ever been in my adult life. I learned to love and trust myself which makes loving and trusting others easier and more enjoyable. I also see in hindsight all the ways I failed in my marriage and what I could have done better... I try to own it all and learn from it to become a better man.
-
We are discussing what happened if you're in the process of, or already divorced and either D&D or NC. How things have been going since, and how things are going for LBSers now.
Now I'm confused, you posted this My3girls and yet you agree with Watcher who is standing AND paving the way and using no contact as a way to take care of himself. I don't believe he is divorced........
-
We are discussing what happened if you're in the process of, or already divorced and either D&D or NC. How things have been going since, and how things are going for LBSers now.
Now I'm confused, you posted this My3girls and yet you agree with Watcher who is standing AND paving the way and using no contact as a way to take care of himself. I don't believe he is divorced........
This is not a standing only post. This is for anyone that is in D&D and NC. Period. The confusion started when the post about NC article was posted. It's not about NC itself, it's about those who are in either D&D and NC that are living their lives in accordance with it. That NC article post became a distraction from the initial post with the disclaimer.
-
DJ, I love to read your posts. I'm glad that you've taken the time to chime in.
We might have been married to polar opposites. Mine was always ready for the other shoe to drop. Anger was his first reaction to everything. I've been doing a lot on my own. I'm a positive upbeat person for the most part, and I really am enjoying the change in my inner circle. More positive things have been happening because of it.
I personally am not really interested in dating per se, but I do miss having someone in my life. I just don't have the time or the energy to put into a new person at the moment. I don't feel that I'm ready to be in a relationship while I'm still raising my kids and running businesses. That may change if the right man comes along.
I agree that self reflection is the key. I don't feel the need to focus on him and what he's doing. To tell you the truth he wasn't on my radar until he told the kids that he's planning on moving back to the state. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
I really believe that this time has been good for me and my girls as well. I hope that OD gets her act together, he really had her going for a while with the lies and manipulations. I think that that's calmed down. For now.
Glad to know that things are working out for you for the most part. Please keep contributing to this thread, love hearing what you have to say.
-
I am dim/dark, paving the way, and standing, (though I have to say I'm not a big fan of labels because I think they encourage people to focus on differences rather than commonalities).
I am not dating and not interested. For me, I will live as a married person until I am no longer married. Tho he separated 2.5 years ago, I'm still legally married, so.....
I am moving forward with my life without rancour toward H, who was very much in Monster mode at BD. I have been emotionally abused for certain - I believe sudden, involuntary and arbitrary jettisoning of a spouse, family and friends is abusive.
DD is 'working' for me in that it helps me in two ways:
1) letting go of my sense of hurt from H's actions so that true forgiveness is possible and I can feel at peace, and
2) allowing me to work on my own 'stuff' absent the negative emotional fuel that comes from contact that has covert expectations attached.
I also find standing apart from the emotion of contact is helping me become strong enough, physically, spiritually and emotionally in order to rebuild a trusting relationship, should the opportunity to reconcile present itself.
What has happened is that I have become stronger, and more serene. Our contact now is much less, which I am learning not to worry about. Learning not to worry has been a big lesson in the 'becoming stronger' deppartment.
I will probably send him Christmas greetings, though, because this is a season that to me is very much about peace and reconciliation in a global sense. And I do wish for there to be peace between us.
I have never gone NC - not in the definition of NC whereby even if he contacts me I will not respond. In my opinion, I think the term NC is often used on this board when the behavioural application is actually Dim / Dark. And I think that was the point Calamity was trying to make. Tho I understand I 'receive' the messages of others' posts through my own perceptual filters, just like everyone else.
I'm not quite sure I understand what was meant by a 'mature' LBS, so I'll leave that to hardwork to clarify from his perspective.
To me, a mature LBS is someone who has worked through the initial emotional trauma of BD; who has determined what the right path is for them without comparing or discrediting the path of another; and who has a level of compassion for all LBSs despite the stage or direction of their journey.
In the context of HS, I would define an a mature LBS as someone who can discuss and clarify and disagree with others without being disagreeable.
-
We are discussing what happened if you're in the process of, or already divorced and either D&D or NC. How things have been going since, and how things are going for LBSers now.
Now I'm confused, you posted this My3girls and yet you agree with Watcher who is standing AND paving the way and using no contact as a way to take care of himself. I don't believe he is divorced........
This is not a standing only post. This is for anyone that is in D&D and NC. Period. The confusion started when the post about NC article was posted. It's not about NC itself, it's about those who are in either D&D and NC that are living their lives in accordance with it. That NC article post became a distraction from the initial post with the disclaimer.
I understand that this is not a standing only post but I still have the same question. Since when did this go from a discussion of those who are dim and dark, no contact to a discussion about those who are divorced or in the process of a divorce? Are you narrowing down the focus even further? Your disclaimer says nothing about divorce or being in the process of divorce.....it only references those who are committed to a D&D and NC stance for now
I don't think I mentioned anything about being a standers only discussion........just trying to get some clarification in case someone asks.......
-
We are discussing what happened if you're in the process of, or already divorced and either D&D or NC. How things have been going since, and how things are going for LBSers now.
Now I'm confused, you posted this My3girls and yet you agree with Watcher who is standing AND paving the way and using no contact as a way to take care of himself. I don't believe he is divorced........
This is not a standing only post. This is for anyone that is in D&D and NC. Period. The confusion started when the post about NC article was posted. It's not about NC itself, it's about those who are in either D&D and NC that are living their lives in accordance with it. That NC article post became a distraction from the initial post with the disclaimer.
I understand that this is not a standing only post but I still have the same question. Since when did this go from a discussion of those who are dim and dark, no contact to a discussion about those who are divorced or in the process of a divorce? Are you narrowing down the focus even further? Your disclaimer says nothing about divorce or being in the process of divorce.....it only references those who are committed to a D&D and NC stance for now
I don't think I mentioned anything about being a standers only discussion........just trying to get some clarification in case someone asks.......
This is a distraction, and has nothing to do with the what I originally posted. If you need more clarification, then why don't you let some other people post for a while, and see what they say. It may just be you. Your perception is noted. Not my responsibility to repeat myself. I don't even do that with my kids. You either get it, or you don't. If you feel that's rude, than you'll have to live with it. It is what it is. My thread, I set the tone, you can chose to read and respond or not. Your choice. IF you take something the wrong way, that's truly on you.
-
Onward, I think Hardwork meant by stages not actual maturity level. :)
-
All I can say is my IC therapist who is one of the best in our area affirmed I was emotionally abused by H during the 18 month MLC crap I lived with prior to BD. It's called withholding abuse and IS considered domestic abuse. It wore on my mental state. I fantasized about leaving him on numerous occasions but wanted so bad for my marriage to work. I'm done because of that abuse and the monstering abuse after BD. I will NEVER allow someone to abuse me again even if it's subtle. So, I am grateful for this thread. Domestic abuse isn't just physical. Most of us have been abused by our MLCERS here but excuse it as MLC behavior, mental illness,whatever. Sorry, but I am the happiest I've been in years thanks to my NC and D decision. Please respect that this is what I needed to do to be whole and happy again. I don't judge any standers.
-
This is a distraction, and has nothing to do with the what I originally posted. If you need more clarification, then why don't you let some other people post for a while, and see what they say. It may just be you. Your perception is noted. Not my responsibility to repeat myself. I don't even do that with my kids. You either get it, or you don't. If you feel that's rude, than you'll have to live with it. It is what it is. My thread, I set the tone, you can chose to read and respond or not. Your choice. IF you take something the wrong way, that's truly on you.
Wow. Words I've heard almost verbatim from some MLC'rs.......Domestic abuse isn't just physical. Most of us have been abused by our MLCERS here but excuse it as MLC behavior, mental illness,whatever.
I have never heard any of the mentors or RCR use MLC as an excuse for abuse. In fact I'm sure they are pretty clear about protecting yourself financially, emotionally and physically in all cases no matter what. What is being discussed here, if I understand My3girls correctly, is the CHOICE to either be dim or dark or no contact as a tool to help an LBS heal and cope with the MLC behavior. Abuse is totally outside of any advice given otherwise. If you are being abused, get out and get help immediately.
What is NOT advocated by this site, is thinking that dim and dark or no contact is some kind of road-map to follow in order to cause a reconciliation. As far as I know, there is no formula or steps to follow. You have to do what works for you. Dim/dark and no contact are used when you need to step back and get your equilibrium again. Its a time out in order to gather strength and consider options. Its an emotional safety zone for the LBS when needed.
-
When I saw "D&D" on the thread title I thought it mean "divorced and done", not dim and dark. I agree with Calamity that if you're not standing, contact type doesn't matter because you have no reason to take a contact stance (and are free to tell them to get lost if that's what you want).
That was the original reasoning behind this thread. The hope that we could talk about our new lives to encourage and give hope to one another. Can you please clarify if that's why you are posting, just make sure we're on the same page. If not, that's up to you, but this is supposed to be a clearing of the head type of thread, with the focus on the LBSer not the MLCEr.
I like the reason behind this. I think so many times we just circle back to the MLCer all the time, and there's plenty of places to talk about them if we need to. That's one reason I don't "identify" as a stander - it just wraps a big part of my identity around someone else, and I'm finally to the point of detachment where I don't want that.
I have to encourage you guys that if you do hit financial rock bottom because of an MLCer, there's hope on the other side. I'm about half way through the bankruptcy process and it has not been as awful as I was expecting. I have modified my home loan in order to keep my house, and will need my bankruptcy judge to sign off on that, but it's all good. I've spent so much time focusing on 'saving' myself in every direction, it almost feels weird to not have that on my plate. It's all given me a newfound confidence that I can handle whatever happens. I've suffered with so much anxiety my whole life, but between my spiritual beliefs and the actions I'm taking, I don't feel it nearly as much. Empowerment helps. There's a future for us.
-
My3girls,
I haven't read your thread or know you personally, but in this post I hear a lot of anger. Which sometimes seems to be a trend on this site. I've been at this going on 6 years, and knowing what most of the people have gone through you would think that you could offer more kindness with others who disagree with you. Your totally right, there are more opinions and you should give them the right to express them, no matter what they are. Just saying..........................
FH
-
That was the original reasoning behind this thread. The hope that we could talk about our new lives to encourage and give hope to one another. Can you please clarify if that's why you are posting, just make sure we're on the same page. If not, that's up to you, but this is supposed to be a clearing of the head type of thread, with the focus on the LBSer not the MLCEr.
I like the reason behind this. I think so many times we just circle back to the MLCer all the time, and there's plenty of places to talk about them if we need to. That's one reason I don't "identify" as a stander - it just wraps a big part of my identity around someone else, and I'm finally to the point of detachment where I don't want that.
I have to encourage you guys that if you do hit financial rock bottom because of an MLCer, there's hope on the other side. I'm about half way through the bankruptcy process and it has not been as awful as I was expecting. I have modified my home loan in order to keep my house, and will need my bankruptcy judge to sign off on that, but it's all good. I've spent so much time focusing on 'saving' myself in every direction, it almost feels weird to not have that on my plate. It's all given me a newfound confidence that I can handle whatever happens. I've suffered with so much anxiety my whole life, but between my spiritual beliefs and the actions I'm taking, I don't feel it nearly as much. Empowerment helps. There's a future for us.
This is exactly what I was trying to convey. Thanks RTR, you get what I've been trying to say all along. I never implied that this thread was for standers or non standers. I simply asked a few questions, and prefaced it with where I was coming from. I've referred to D&D as Dim and Dark on previous threads. I thought that the context in which it was written was clear. Apparently not in the title, but definitely in the first post. This should clarify it.
Finding Hope, don't confuse anger with frustration. There are times when people go off on tangents ( I find that it happens a lot on the spouse due to not reading previous thread posts ) because of misunderstandings before clarifying. What you were reading was my frustration, not anger. If I was angry, I would have had no problems saying so. And even if I were, that's okay as well. This is the place to be able to express thoughts, opinions, and feelings, even the ones that make others uncomfortable.
-
I would like some advice from the veterans....been through monster and H's emotional rollercoaster for 18 months....I know this isn't a long time but the damage that has been done is too much....Just reviewing the things H has done and rereading his texts made me realize I am done. Why am I holding onto someone who lives in a different reality? Who gets joy out of making me suffer?
He dropped out of the kids lives and moved 20 minutes away with a male roommate for 10 months and, barely visited the kids.
He hired a lawyer and filed for divorce, he decided to fight for 50% custody because I wouldn't agree to a quick divorce on his terms. When I hired a lawyer, he suddenly moved down the street and started taking the kids to his place more frequently. He does not want to pay me child support.
I was holding off on the divorce, but now I am thinking I should serve him and finish it quickly. He was barely spending time with the kids until I hired a lawyer; now he is trying to prove he deserves 50%. He set up their bedrooms and bought them furniture at his apartment. Any advice? Should I quickly file?
-
What is NOT advocated by this site, is thinking that dim and dark or no contact is some kind of road-map to follow in order to cause a reconciliation. As far as I know, there is no formula or steps to follow. You have to do what works for you. Dim/dark and no contact are used when you need to step back and get your equilibrium again. Its a time out in order to gather strength and consider options. Its an emotional safety zone for the LBS when needed.
.
The whole reconciliation question is just part of a series of questions, and really isn't that big a part of the entire equation. Just one part. It seems to be what you're stuck on. If anyone is thinking of reconciliation. I've meet people that went NC and years later the MLCer wanted to come back. So in the grand scheme of things: we really don't know if contact is really necessary. There are sites and therapists that will tell you that it's essential, and others will tell you it doesn't make much of a difference. It depends on who you talk to, and who and what you believe.
I know that time is the one thing that makes a difference, and I do believe there is someone here on the spouse that left, and moved to another country to get away, and her husband went after her and found her. Don't know if she was NC, but it does make one wonder if they don't feel more confident knowing that the LBSer is going to wait for them no matter what they do. I personally believe that as long as they feel they can keep you waiting they will. If they know without a doubt that you will wait for them, they may make you wait for the rest of your life. Which seems to suit some of the MLCers ( especially the ones that have remarried and stayed married, just fine ). Waiting for a shadow might not be such a good idea, but to each his own.
-
I would like some advice from the veterans....been through monster and H's emotional rollercoaster for 18 months....I know this isn't a long time but the damage that has been done is too much....Just reviewing the things H has done and rereading his texts made me realize I am done. Why am I holding onto someone who lives in a different reality? Who gets joy out of making me suffer?
He dropped out of the kids lives and moved 20 minutes away with a male roommate for 10 months and, barely visited the kids.
He hired a lawyer and filed for divorce, he decided to fight for 50% custody because I wouldn't agree to a quick divorce on his terms. When I hired a lawyer, he suddenly moved down the street and started taking the kids to his place more frequently. He does not want to pay me child support.
I was holding off on the divorce, but now I am thinking I should serve him and finish it quickly. He was barely spending time with the kids until I hired a lawyer; now he is trying to prove he deserves 50%. He set up their bedrooms and bought them furniture at his apartment. Any advice? Should I quickly file?
The real question is: What do you want? Do you want to do this quickly? Is there a financial issue where you need to get this resolved fast? Are you feeling pressured? What does your lawyer say?
Are you Dim and Dark right now?
-
I thought D&D mean divorced and done too..
MoreWillBeRevealed:
Nice post. I feel the same way throughout most of the relationship. A man will not ever abuse me on any level again. Actually I allow no one to.
I have been way to tolerant with quite a few of my same gender friendships too. I make excuses for them and let things slide.They get out of balance and one sided. I get hurt by these friends being pretty harsh.
Then they try to dismiss it or blow it off. I don't want that in my life.
I actually had a friend of mine try to manage me down a few ways and one of them was by saying " When you get hurt you tend to shut down"
Well who wouldn't ..what are you supposed to do open yourself up to more abuse? I've been NC with her for a few months.
-
I thought that the context in which it was written was clear. Apparently not in the title, but definitely in the first post. This should clarify it.
My bad! :) I will admit that I jumped in partway. Will go back and catch up. :)
-
Makes sense it was Dim and Dark... :-[
-
I thought D&D mean divorced and done too..
MoreWillBeRevealed:
Nice post. I feel the same way throughout most of the relationship. A man will not ever abuse me on any level again. Actually I allow no one to.
I have been way to tolerant with quite a few of my same gender friendships too. I make excuses for them and let things slide.They get out of balance and one sided. I get hurt by these friends being pretty harsh.
Then they try to dismiss it or blow it off. I don't want that in my life.
I actually had a friend of mine try to manage me down a few ways and one of them was by saying " When you get hurt you tend to shut down"
Well who wouldn't ..what are you supposed to do open yourself up to more abuse? I've been NC with her for a few months.
You sound good these days In it. RTR don't sweat it, we've all been guilty of jumping ahead to the good stuff. ;)
-
You too My3..I still have those days..it just isn't all day for day after day like it used to be. I try to figure out " Has it really been a bad day? Or was it one negative encounter ( that was for a few minutes) I was stuck in all day". Most of the time when I'm tired things feel worse.
I had a coworker ( male) trying to play games with me at work. Acted like he was "in control" (or tried to see if he could be) of what I was doing etc.
He was being vague about where he was in the building and we were on walkie talkies. Its a big place,
When I used the walkie to find out his location he told me he was in one place so I went there.. he wasn't there
Then the games started. He started talking in riddles and being vague. Maybe he thought he was being cute..I haven't a clue.
And I disengaged by telling him flat out "I'm not playing games with you!" And didn't talk to him for the rest of the day.
A few days later he asked me about it and I told him flat out:
" I don't play games. I only have so much energy in a day and I am not walking all over this f#cking store trying to find you!"
He apologized.
-
OM, I would do what you believe is truly best for the kids. If he has been uninvolved and this is documented, it may be in your best interest to reach an agreement that reflects this choice.
I just want to add, I really agree with whoever said to keep a gentle and respectful tone on the forum. It's good for everyone! 💛
-
I believe 'no contact' is very misunderstood. IF you are not standing, fine, go no contact but if standing, then I would be very careful. Without communication any chance at reconciliation OR some kind of normal relationship would be impossible.
I bolded the above part from your post, Calamity. I do not believe this to be true. I was BDed on January 1st. He got his divorce finalized on July 26th. There has been virtually no contact at all.
At this point I am standing. I do not send unwanted birthday greetings to him. I won't be wishing him Merry Christmas. He obviously doesn't want contact from me. I am busy trying to live a different life.
I do think that it is entirely possible that we could experience some kind of normal relationship in the future (and it may be years in the future) even though there is no communication.
Just stating my personal thoughts and beliefs. I sure hope I don't get bashed and roasted. :(
-
For me hope does =expectations. And that was keeping me stuck. And allowing me to let H disrespect me. He had Even brought OW to my town, to a festival he know me and the kids were at... Talk about a smack in the face! And I still responded to his texts like nothing ever happened.... Well, I realized how much disrespect he was still dishing out!! So yes, I have went NC 😲 even my daughter said "mom, how can you allow him to even talk to you? You are so much better than that" I realized I was sending her a message. And I didn't like that message!! I also realized I must not think enough of myself to let this happen yet again with him. 3 years of narcissistic, infidelity, withholding affection. Before BD! I love my husband..... But this guy walking around in his much abused body... I don't know that person... BUT I am getting to know me. And I think she deserves better... Just sayin. Thanks again for this discussion. Much needed
-
Not from me Stillbaffled I believe the same thing..not in my case of course. ::) Any future relationship is out of the question.
IHMO staying in contact after a devastating blow like this pretty much says " Hey I'm ok with what you did or are doing" and leaves you open to manipulation and abuse and is not a connection.
There's no real communication with them anyway with the state they are in.
And once you realize you deserve better that when things start to change.
-
Kat and In It, I really love these posts.
If MLCer wants LBS back, let them prove themselves. If not what have we really lost? An abusing and unfaithful partner is not worth having.
-
One thing that there is certainly no shortage of in this world is people. So what is it that makes us put up with abuse from an MLC’er? Sure there may have been many happy years together in the past. But that is just it, the past. If a friend or acquaintance unleashed the sort of abuse that some people have received from their MLC’er there is no way that person would remain a friend.
So for me it all comes down to what you choose. Why would I choose to have someone who has broken trust and is abusive towards me in my life? At times there is a tendency to make excuses for the MLC’er. Yet I certainly am not willing to make excuses for my X. My choice has been to move out of the toxic environment that this fiasco produced and be with people who actually want to be around me. As I said before there are billions of people in this world so why look towards the person who has done more damage to you than everyone else put together?
While NC started as a conscious effort, now it’s a case of disinterest in that person. What they are doing or with whom is no longer a concern. The attraction is gone and the empty space that was there after BD has been filled with positive experiences and people.
-
Good Morning,
As I have been asked by the author of the thread to comment, after thinking about it for a little while (remember? Respond, don't react? ;) ) I've thought a bit about it and ordered my thoughts/ideas. First, I am trying to focus on the initial opening discussion but will occasionally refer to comments from other posters as I did find them interesting but, for the most part, I want to respect the wishes of M3G and stay close to the topic. Second, I refuse to engage in a cat fight with anyone over anything. I will be glad to discuss whatever but I have enough drama in my life with my mid-lifer - 'nuf said.
This is what I personally feel about limiting contact and the various "levels" of doing so. I have no basis for this except what I have experienced and observed in my life.
Advance warning : This will be a long read and I ramble a bit
For a little background as to why I feel the way I do about limiting contact:
This is my second time on this Rollercoaster (Yes, apparently I have some magical attraction to women who will go into some crisis :P ) with xW going off the rails at age 33 (so mid- or quarter?) with full-blown Godzilla-Monstering for more than 10 years and with a small child (at that time - D was 3 when xW blew up - she is 26 now)! Currently, my Mid-Lifer is a Low-Energy Clinger, minimal to no monstering after BD and the few weeks afterwards so a totally different kettle of fish.
First, a slight definition of terminology - NC vs. nc (capital letters vs. small) from my view.
When I say NC (upper case) I mean exactly that - NO direct contact between the Mid-Lifer and the LBS - ALL communication is handled via 3rd party from the LBS point of view. As noted in a previous post in this thread, we can only control ourselves. When one is NC, we still can not control what our Mid-Lifer does. We CAN, however, control how we respond to it and, in NC (upper case) I feel that means that there is NO direct response from the LBS to the Mid-Lifer. MLr sends a note? Response is returned via Attorney. ML'r tries to call (Thank GOODNESS for Caller ID - I didn't have that first time around so used my Answering Machine as a call screener)? Block the number or don't answer. NO direct engagement - period.
For me lower case nc is about the same as black hole dark - for specific things, there may be direct contact but that is it... OK? Now that we're all on the same sheet of music maybe....
My experience with NC/nc :
I see NC as one of the most potent defensive weapons (and I use this term with full knowledge) in the arsenal of the LBS. It is totally appropriate and a means of self-protection in cases of abuse, either physical or mental (now the degree of what constitutes mental abuse is VERY subjective and is a personal decision that I am not going to go into. Physical abuse, however is straight forward and is a 100% no-go for me. In my view it is also a reason to not even consider reconciliation because that is a red line that shall not be crossed ... ever... for any reason... ) because the whole purpose is to remove any direct contact between the LSB and the Mid-Lifer.
When xW was in the depths of crazy, she would often call and literally scream at me... for hours... until I put an end to it with NC. With the exception of 3 days around my D(now 26)'s High School Graduation, I have had no contact at all with xW for more than 15 years. To this day, seeing her name in FB posts from D or in my e-mail inbox (more on that in a second) elicits a visceral gut-level response (PTSD anyone?) from me. xW has sent me FB Friend requests ( :o ??? You can NOT make this stuff up - FB needs a button when you delete such requests that says "I'd rather have my squishy bits pounded flat with a hammer or a root canal without novacaine!") LinkedIn requests (again, WTF? She was a paralegal secretary so our lines of work have NOTHING in common) all of which I have simply deleted. I refuse to have anything to do with her.
In the initial stages, when I would try to arrange visitation, she would use the opportunity to go off on a Monster rant, slinging all kids of baseless accusations (mostly regarding parental kidnapping, etc.) , cursing, and would refuse to allow D to visit me so I finally had to haul out the nuclear Weapon of NC. ALL communication regarding visitation were then sent via my attorney and included the implicit threat of enforcement actions begin filed if she failed to comply. As xW was a paralegal, she was fully aware of the consequences of her actions in that regard and would ALWAYS agree to the proposed visitation. She would then usually try to call or send really hateful letters (this was before e-mail got off the ground in a big way for private people) which I would then deliver unopened to my attorney who would deal with it, usually by reading for any pertinent information and then tossing the letter in the circular file. That way I was insulated from the MonsterMadness..... This continued until D was about 12 or 13. In that time, xW followed the High-Energy script of serial AD's (one of which took her into Bankruptcy - OM<x> was 33 and still living in mom's basement - what could POSSIBLY be wrong with this picture?), smoking again (and not just cigarettes), etc.. Once D was a little older and would speak for herself, my contact with D was opened up and I dealt directly with her regarding schedules and such with the only "contact" for xW being me ordering and sending plane tickets for D to her for the dates agreed between D and myself.
For D's High School Graduation, we (I was then married to current Mid-Lifer and S was on the scene) received an invitation to her graduation and follow-on party.... We used that as a springboard for our summer vacation to visit my parents on Colorado and S's Godparents in Atlanta so we made a 3 week thing out of it. I basically arranged everything either remotely or with D (she worked at a hotel in the area so that was how we got that squared away) but I did reply to xW thinking her for he invitation, accepting it and giving her our itinerary. Those were 3 days of stress because I was constantly waiting for the explosion - it never came but I could not shake the feeling.... On a side note, I didn't even recognize xW in the Auditorium where the graduation was to take place. She came up and said "Hey you! We saved some seats over there." and I guess the look on my face must have said "Who the heck are you? for second because she continued with "where xSIL and xWSD1 & xWSD2 are sitting" THEN I finally realized who this person was... :o Yes, seriously. I would have NEVER recognized her... After the ceremony, MLCW, S D and I went back to our hotel and then D went back home. The next day was a pool party at their house (xW had remarried several years before - actually about the time that the monster was beginning to disappear) and it was a decent time - no incidents and we all had a reasonably good time. xW's brother and sister were there too and everything went fine...
So, in that way, we downgraded from NC to nc. I have no desire or need to have any contact with her as there is zero chance of any kind of R, friends or anything, because I refuse to accept ANY risk that the old monster could reappear... Yeah, THAT (in my eyes) qualified as emotional or mental abuse. For crying out loud, I'm 53, have been out of that situation for 20 something years and it is STILL a trigger for me.
Going NC brought out Monster10 as if "normal" Monster was not bad enough.... but I had to do that to set the boundary that I refused to be bullied, I refused to be abused by her, and it was in HER hands to change it by CHOOSING to be a reasonable decent human being instead of a rabid Godzilla on Steroids. It took her nearly 10 years to make that decision...
Having said all that, NC is like Gandolf on the Bridge with in "The Lord of the Rings." It is a boundary that shall not be crossed. Some say that it should be of finite duration. My personal take is that it is dependent on 2 things - First , the ability of the LBS to deal with the Mid-Lifer and second, the Mid-lifers ability respect whatever boundary has been put into place with NC as the consequence for crossing it.. there also MUST be REAL consequences for crossing that boundary. Without real consequences, the Mid-Lifer will ignore the boundary, just like any other. In my case, my attorney told xW in plain terms that if she continued, there would be a restraining order filed. When xW started contacting my employer and monstering, a "Cease and Desist"order WAS filed (Like I said, actual real consequences) with the threat of a law suit for tortious interference with employment being filed.
This is why I refer as NC (upper case) as a weapon. There are real consequences involved, just waiting for the trigger to be pulled. That is the only way in which NC can really be effective. To put it bluntly, the Mid-Lifer will have to feel the pain of crossing the boundary.
Note to M3G: You noted that in the court order, your x(?) is conjoined from contact other than with respect to the kids but you say he continues to contact you about everything and anything other than the kids. That puts him in contempt. What are the consequences of that action? Does that mean that you have to report his breaking of that injunction? If so, have you? Otherwise it is an idle threat that has no backing and, as we have all experienced, if the mid-lifer doesn't feel the burn, they will not respect the boundary.
NC, for those with small kids and who are in close proximity to their mid-lifer, is also not for the faint of heart. It means (to me) that the kids are dropped off or picked up at a 3rd party location so direct contact between the LBS and the Mid-Lifer is prevented. Usually Social Services will have been involved at some point in some way or another from my understanding/perspective and agreements are made as to where and when the kids are exchanged.
On to nc/Dark/Dim - I differentiate these as usually NC is for those who need protection from their abuser and have neither hope or desire of reconnection/reconciliation because, let's face it, if there is truly NO contact, there can be no reconnection.
Therefore, I see nc/dark/dim as more of a tool for the LBS that allows the LBS to respond rather than react. To me, the three above terms imply that there IS direct communication / contact with the Mid-Lifer, albeit limited to specific subjects/times/means. These three tools are more flexible in their usage and can be applied as needed. If the Mid-Lifer has some respect for boundaries (yes, it CAN happen, especially among the lower-energy types like mine), going up the severity scale can be used as the "response" to a boundary being broken. for example, in one thread on HS, the LBS set a boundary of "If you choose the Adult Child over me on my Birthday, I will go nc for 30 days or until such time that you do <xyz>." In another thread, it is "I am going to have no contact with you until you see a mental health professional about your anger." This is a clear boundary. the resulting reaction is clearly defined , and the conditions for the lifting of the reaction are all clearly spelled out.
Again, for me, UPPER CASE NC is of unlimited duration and is solely based on the needs/situation of the LBS whereas nc/Dark/dim are well-defined methods/levels of interaction and the transition to a lower level is a response to to trespassing or crossing a line, are finite in duration and have well-defined criteria and are levels of communication/contact based on the .
In my current situation, I go between dim and dark. The communications pipeline regarding the kids and planning around them is fully open. Other than that, we have discussed things like Christmas presents, for the kids, who will make Christmas dinner, will we go to church together, etc. MLCW asked me the other day if I could take care of the kids on the 22nd "because she is going out to dinner." I replied that I'd be happy to have the kids but I did not take the bait of asking about the dinner because, frankly, the Mid-lifer is going to do who/what the Mid-lifer is going to do so I am not going to waste my time or energy on it... All that does is rev up the Monkey-Braining. In addition, I do not share my plans with her except as it pertains to where the kids will stay on that particular night. She has decided to be a single mom so she no longer has the right to know what I am doing just as I feel I have neither the need nor the right to know what she is doing when the kids are with me.
Since I still entertain the possibility of reconnection and because my mid-lifer is not abusive at this time (in my opinion), I am keeping the communication paths open so that, IF she decides at some point before my life moves on that she will get her head out of her .... fog... and if she works through the issue(s) that brought her to MLC in the first place and IF she hasn't burned every bridge between us, there is a possibility that we can rebuild... and see where we go from there....
Side Note: XYZCF asked a question regarding the control of communication that I thought was pertinent with respect to the LBS... One thing that the LBS has to remember is that, even in NC, there are some things that are simply out of our control and the Mid-Lifer is at the top of the list. As I said above, the Mid-Lifer's gonna do what they are gonna do and we have no control over that. We CAN have, SHOULD have, and DO have control over how we respond to them and, depending on how limited you have chosen to be with your Mid-Lifer (and, like anything else, yes, it is a choice that you or I make) that response should follow the boundaries that have been put in place, either by the courts or by the LBS themselves. That means that the LBS may need to take a certain set of actions if the MLC'er has violated the court order for example. Like M3G said, we only control ourselves and I would add that we should also be consistent and consequential... After all, we are dealing with someone who is spinning madly somewhere in the spectrum between "toddler in Temper Tantrum Mode" and the "petulant pouty passive-aggressive teenager in Puberty."
-
Been watching this thread. I don't have much to contribute. Just wanted to chime in and say Ursa-that is the most well thought out informative post I have read about NC/nc/D&D. I am still trying to figure out boundaries, as I have a particularly abusive (NPD, not physically) MLCer. We still have a small child so NC just isn't possible....or at least I didn't think so until now. Your post was pure gold to me.
Thanks,
-T
-
I thought D&D meant Divorced and Done too. M3G--you use a lot of acronyms. When you start a thread, I suggest you define the acronym first and then use acronym throughout. Nothing wrong with acronyms that are standard and listed in the acronym resources section of this forum. D&D was not listed on that acronym list, or at least I couldn't find it. So now many of my previous posts would have been written differently.
UM--I don't agree that NC means everything through 3rd party. I feel I have instituted NC but still see H when he drops off S5 from visitation. I just never engage with him. I have made a few errors but for the most part feel I am doing well with NC. As long as I do not engage with H, I don't experience abuse from him.
-
UM--I don't agree that NC means everything through 3rd party. I feel I have instituted NC but still see H when he drops off S5 from visitation. I just never engage with him. I have made a few errors but for the most part feel I am doing well with NC. As long as I do not engage with H, I don't experience abuse from him.
Fair enough... That is why I said that it was MY experience, my understanding and what I had to put into place. With my xMonster, if there was ANY contact, it was full-on rage. She could not control herself... and why I differentiated between what I called upper case NC and lower case nc. If you and your Mid-Lifer are able to NOT engage when in physical proximity, then you are already one step ahead of the game. Many abusive spouses use those instances as a chance to get a shot in... Heck, mine met me one day in the airport when I was flying through (I arranged it so I could see D before I had the NC in place) and proceeded, in front of D (who was 3 at the time) and zig hundred other people in the terminal, to go on a full-blown screaming rant that culminated with her throwing D papers in my face just as Security showed up.. This was pre-9/11 so she was able to get to the gate... It was UG-LY!
-
UM, you should never apologize for your long posts. They are very enjoyable to read.
I am nc because contact brings out the mush in me. It takes days to recover my sanity and strength to carry on. So far h has not contacted me (even though he said in his email that I posted that he would continue to communicate with me when he wanted to). I guess he hasn't wanted to. That's okay by me. Makes me miss the old h less.
-
UM, you should never apologize for your long posts. They are very enjoyable to read.
I am nc because contact brings out the mush in me. It takes days to recover my sanity and strength to carry on. So far h has not contacted me (even though he said in his email that I posted that he would continue to communicate with me when he wanted to). I guess he hasn't wanted to. That's okay by me. Makes me miss the old h less.
Hi Tyks,
Here is your NON-HS-Friendly emoji in response to H (If you click the link, you'll be able to see it... https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sgiving-the-finger_100-111.gif (https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/sgiving-the-finger_100-111.gif)
-
Lol. That gave me the laugh I needed this am. Thank you
-
I am nc because contact brings out the mush in me. It takes days to recover my sanity and strength to carry on.
This was me. I used to think, I should be stronger, I should be able to deal with him but 'shoulds' are self-defeating. We do what we can and maybe it is just what we need to survive.
-
I thought D&D meant Divorced and Done too. M3G--you use a lot of acronyms. When you start a thread, I suggest you define the acronym first and then use acronym throughout. Nothing wrong with acronyms that are standard and listed in the acronym resources section of this forum. D&D was not listed on that acronym list, or at least I couldn't find it. So now many of my previous posts would have been written differently.
UM--I don't agree that NC means everything through 3rd party. I feel I have instituted NC but still see H when he drops off S5 from visitation. I just never engage with him. I have made a few errors but for the most part feel I am doing well with NC. As long as I do not engage with H, I don't experience abuse from him.
You'll have to forgive me, I was married to Marine for 20yrs., the military uses a lot of acronyms. I had explained towards the end of the post that my kids were D&D ( Dim and Dark ) and I was NC. I'll be clearer in subsequent posts. In my defense, if everyone had read the initial post all the way through instead of just the title, they would have understood. There's only so many characters you can use in the title, so, I improvised. I also had a disclaimer for newbies. They wouldn't know what D&D was. Velika being at this for a while knew exactly what I was talking about, and responded immediately. I see More that you are a newbie, this was really supposed to be for us that were at this for a few years into it here on HS. Although you are welcome there are many of us on here who have been dealing with each other for years ( Medusa, TNT, Velika, In It, Calamity, XYZ, RTR, ect... ). So that was why I had a disclaimer.
Thanks UM for your input, as always well thought out and well written. I agree with TNT that was the best explanation of D&D and NC that I've read in a long time. I'm NC on my end, but he still contacts, the last time I did have to go through my lawyer. Hence why I think he's moving back to the state. For the time being I want nothing to do with him, and have told him as much. So, NC has been a major consequence in my situation. I respond, I don't react. I also don't initiate contact unless I'm forced to. Like this month when he didn't deposit our money until 5 days after the due date. That made my bills late, so I had no choice but to contact. He ignored, I sent a joint email to him and my lawyer. The money was deposited the next day.
TNT great to see you posting again.
UM, He is indeed in contempt of court, but with him living on an island, he tends to get warnings. That's about the best we can do for now. He usually backs off for a while. I will be looking in to a 3rd party pick up when and/or if he does move back. I'm not interested in reconciliation at this time, and he's in need of serious therapy. Even my younger girls have told me that they would never speak to me again if I took him back. I lost a marriage, almost lost my OD because of it. Not jeopardizing my relationship with my younger 2.
I choose NC as a direct defense against him using the OW/AD to try to humiliate me and my younger 2 kids. OD liked her: she agreed with her out of control lifestyle. Go figure. Now, OD is talking to me again. I think that that's a good sign that the AD used her to get close to XH and now she's served her purpose. Poor kid, now she doesn't see much of her dad, unless she works with him at his snow cone, oops, shaved ice stand.
Thanks to everyone participating. And I too hope that the cat fights will stop. This is supposed to be a place where we can share, and yes, I do expect sometimes for this thread to get raw. It's why I started it, no pretenses. Controversial as this topic is, it really does need to be addressed openly and honestly.
Whether thin skinned or thick, everyone, including those of us who are more candid and/or blunt should be respected. Provocative statements are unnecessary, and if you provoke someone, then you can expect them to be triggered. And, on this post may give you a piece of their minds. So if you don't want to illicit that type of response from those who may be dealing with a "monstering mlcer" don't push anyone's buttons. People are dealing with enough drama from the MLCer.
-
Oh geez, UM. I don't blame you for wanting no contact with that insane woman! Ugh. She sounds like a piece of work. I am fortunate that mine doesn't monster or say abusive hurtful things if we keep conversations to financials and our son. The monster and fake robot (just as hurtful) comes out when H is asked ANY question about how he is doing or really anything is presented regarding anything other than financials and son. I instituted this form of NC and not inquiring about anything at about 2 months. Like I said, I haven't been perfect with it, but last time I asked H if he was ok (I swore he relapsed on drugs) I learned not to do that again. That was a few months ago.
M3G--I did read your entire thread. I just didn't pick up on dim and dark meaning D&D because I had it in my head it meant divorced and done. No apologies needed, just thought I'd make that suggestion. No worries. Keep doing a great job putting you and the girls first.
-
No worries More, In it and RTR did too, and they've been on heer longer. ;D Honest mistake. 8) It's all good.
I really thought that newbies would be put out by the posts, and I didn't want any to feel like people had "just given up". When this first happens, you're searching for any glimmer of hope that this will pass quickly. I didn't want to dash anyone's hope. At first it's all you really have.
Just glad that the dust has settled and everyone is now on the same page.
-
FWIW I was and still am NC/DD with my ex.
Looking backwards I think part of my reason for doing it was it was the only thing
that I could DO with a Wallower turned to Vanisher.
She does not contact me, never has and so I do the same thing back.
I was the pursurer in the relationship and that is one way she could keep CONTROL.
When I stopped pursuing their was no more CONTROL.
SO I think that part of it comes down to each situation, possibly the type of contact that
exists. Certainly if I had a clinger things may have been quite different.
-
M3G, it's hard on every forum where you have so many situations lumped together. I was on a (musical) keyboard forum for years and we kept getting talked to be the mods about social behavior on the forum. There was an off topic forum on there, but it was all guitar players and they're a different breed from us keyboarders! lol.
Ideally, if it's ok with the forum (and it usually never is) there'd be a forum for each "social" group, Newbies, D&D, NC, long term and I'd like to see a men's LBS forum honestly.
It's just all the headaches that come with being a forumite!
-
M3G, it's hard on every forum where you have so many situations lumped together. I was a (musical) keyboard forum for years and we kept getting talked to be the mods about social behavior on the forum. There was an off topic forum on there, but it was all guitar players and they're a different breed from us keyboarders! lol.
Ideally, if it's ok with the forum (and it usually never is) there'd be a forum for each "social" group, Newbies, D&D, NC, long term and I'd like to see a men's LBS forum honestly.
It's just all the headaches that come with being a forumite!
Gman, It's a lot like trying to herd cats at best, and baptize them at worst. They had a men's forum here on HS, it was called the "Man Cave". It didn't end well.
OP, you've seemed to come a long way. How are things going for you now? Are you interested in reconciliation, or are you done? You've been on here for a while, and I know that you've seen and read it all. From what you've observed, what do you make of the whole Dim/Dark versus No contact debate? What's your take based on being on HS for a while?
-
OP, you've seemed to come a long way. How are things going for you now? Are you interested in reconciliation, or are you done? You've been on here for a while, and I know that you've seen and read it all. From what you've observed, what do you make of the whole Dim/Dark versus No contact debate? What's your take based on being on HS for a while?
I think there is more hype than it deserves.
Until 2 people want to reconcile and have a relationship, their can not be one.
One person can do everything right and NOT reconcile.
Another can do everything wrong and reconcile.
Or any other combination in between the above two.
In the end we each have to do what is right for ourselves.
As far as me, well I guess I am doing what I was meant to do.
My ex and I met up three times this past summer for two graduations and a wedding.
We were cordial to each other but their was nothing more than that.
I would say that is the best that I can hope for.
I am past the point of really caring for more or expecting any more than that.
If she treats my children and my future grandchildren well I will be happy.
I am close to 8 years past bomb drop.
Things are going well for me and I have learned much in this time.
So that is my .02
-
I think another thing I recently learned and I think I can agree with is:
Hope= expectation.
Having expectations leads to disappointments. And I'm pretty sure that's most of the pain I deal with. I still am trying to deal with losing my kids in this.
I have to give up or let go of any hope of a relationship with them or I will continue to allow it to keep upsetting me.
Although it is really nice not to have someone around trying to control my emotions..tell me to stop having them..freaking out at me....or telling me I shouldn't cry.(the ex)
Just the sentence "Giving up hope" to me has such a negative connotation about it.
So if it translates to "Giving up expectation" somehow makes it not sound so awful.
Struggling today..trying to blame it on the holidays. :'( I don't really want to because I really like Christmas. I just cannot wait until this one is over with.
-
In it, I think a lot of us feel that way. I cannot wait for the 24hours to be over with. Christmas will just not be the same :(,. (((hugs))))
-
Init and T;
I feel the same way.
My D will be final in 27 days. I have been D&D for 6 weeks. I am on they same pages as Tyks. I become mush and takes me days to recover. I am not sure if I am done yet or not.
-
I guess the next thing to ask about is how are you all handling the holidays?
I'm staying NC and my kids are still Dim and Dark. He's not keeping up the contact so who knows what's really going on. This is the first Christmas that he's not going to be around the younger 2 girls. He chose to bring the AD/OW to his nephew's wedding last month, so he's not able to see the girls during his designated custody arranged time. Couldn't afford to do both. Priorities... ::) The girls aren't fazed, and are really happy to be spending it with no drama and without his antics.
This is going to be the first Christmas since the divorce where there are no more issues for the girls and I at least.
-
I'm spending mine with family..cousins and an Aunt.I'm looking forward to a lot of laughs, good food, and people who I love and who love me.
The same way I have spent the last two holidays.
No drama or negativity. And continued NC for my peace.
-
Everything is going great for me and the holidays. Since I won't have S5 on xmas eve night and Christmas day, I have plans to hit some "marathon" 12 step meetings and am going to my close friends' who are awesome cooks. I've always had the custody schedule of having my other kids (adults now age 29 and 20) till 6pm xmas eve. As such, all of our family's traditions are on Christmas eve till 6pm.
I have actually been able to co-parent well with H in planning holidays. I had to communicate with him several times yesterday and then this morning. I really don't like this much contact but it's regarding S5. Started out H needing me to keep S5 the night before Christmas eve because he said he needed to go to a 12 step meeting and meet up with another recovering addict. As much as I can't stand him, I support his recovery and am glad he's going back to meetings. Plus, I'll have S5 the day and evening prior to xmas eve and xmas eve till 6pm.
-
So another 2 holidays down, and changes are taking place all around.
This month is supposed to be the month that the EX is moving back to our state, not far from where we live now. The kids are pissed because he's planning to be back in time for MD's Bday which is at the end of this month. We have no clue if he's bringing Gollum ( the kids name for her not mine [ although they have other friends who have told them to stop insulting Gollum ] ) with him to live.
That'll be interesting if he does. Bringing the AD/OW to a small town where he broadcasted all of his and her relationship for everyone to see. I hope she doesn't plan on attending any swim meets. That will be something to behold. I'm staying completely NC. His choice, he has to live with it.
I'm just a little baffled... Why on earth would he want to come back to the one place he claims he hated so much? It's really blows the mind how crazy they can be. I was the reason for his ______ ( fill in the blank with every script you can think of ), and why he had to divorce me. I'm not buying this he wants to be closer to his kids BS, he barely acknowledges or contacts them. I doubt seriously that he even remembers that they exist until someone asks him.
So, they aren't even remotely interested in why, let alone that he's coming back at all. They would prefer to act like he doesn't exist. He's been a special kind of s*it since this whole thing got started. And don't even get me started on the AD... Talk about feeling threatened by me. Wow, the s*it she pulls is legendary, but I guess it's all par for the course. IF she moves here, we won't be putting up with her s*it, even if I have to go to court to ensure it. He's her problem now.
MD unfriended him on FB. So now he and the AD have resorted to tagging each other, and the AD tags my OD so that it can come through MD's timeline if OD shares it with her. MD doesn't really do FB so, it's all in vain. She's no longer letting that bunch take her to crazytown. They seem to know far more about us, then we know or care to know about them. I still see that XH and AD are still reading my blog. There's only a few posts that I wrote specifically for their viewing pleasure. ;D It should be very clear that I have indeed moved on. 8)
Well it's 2017, and I'm ready for a new chapter in my life. I'm not going to keep being dragged back to 2016 by him and his antics. This is a new year, and time for me and my kids to finish moving on. No matter what he does.
Is there anyone else that is dealing with a CB that is hellbent on disrupting your new found peace? Anyone with a MLCer that is dragging their feet with the divorce they so desperately wanted ( been there ) and accusing you of it? Anyone dealing with projection this season regarding the kids not wanting to see or talk to them? Any AD/OP's that really took a stab at your Christmas/New Years?
Anyone new to Dim and Dark or No Contact? Anyone gone ghost recently?
-
My h has always said the phone lines go both ways but yet he is putting the responsibility of communication on a 12 year old liftle girl. She did however call him on November 12 and confronted him about how she felt about things and he brushed her off. It was easy to see that during parts of the conversation,she had him on speaker phone, she was the adult and he was the 12year old. She told him that she was cutting herself and he just didnt care. He still has tet to call and check on her. He wanted a daughter so badly and i gave him one. Now he has nothing to do with her. She however said that she is done with him. This kills me everyday.
-
Oh boy, talk about dragging his feet and then accusing me of it. I first started asking him for his financial disclosure form in December 2015. It took him until May 2016 to give it to me, and at that time it was hand written and contained many errors. Then I had to chase him all summer to try to get him to sign the separation agreement my lawyer drafted. I was constantly met with ridiculous excuses ("I couldn't talk to my lawyer because there was a thunderstorm.")
Finally at the end of August I said I would have my lawyer file and he said no, to save me the expense he would have his lawyer do it. Then nothing for weeks on end. At the end of October, he found out I was moving 700 miles away. Then he had his lawyer hastily draft paperwork using my old address. He presented this paperwork to me three days before I was set to move to a new state, knowing there was no way I would have time to have it reviewed by my lawyer and signed in front of a notary public before I moved.
At that point, he said he was withholding any more alimony payments until his lawyer received the signed paperwork, which of course I can't sign until some things are changed on it.
It was at this point he sent me a delusional email saying that he was withholding payments because "I've been trying to get you to do this for a year and I don't want it to drag out any longer."
Since then I have emailed him twice to let him know that my lawyer has the paperwork and to ask him what his lawyer has said about moving forward, considering the confusion now that I live in a different state. Crickets. He will not respond to me anymore.
-
Bluerose, all I can say is it's not going to get any better. Just keep your daughter in therapy, and do the best you can. Those of us that pray are indeed praying for you. They just don't want to deal with any responsibility, and will argue the kids down. Believe me, my younger 2 have been through it. IF she doesn't want to deal with him, then let him live with the consequences. Kids have really long memories, and when he finally realizes that she doesn't care anymore... Well, you get the picture.
Nassau, I feel your pain. We were set to move over the summer. We had a roommate that was jealous of the fact that she went through the same thing, and my XH had to pay up. Hers didn't, so she left us high and dry with the rent and security deposit. That was a major set back. Before that, when we had to move because the house got foreclosed on, he only deposited $600 for the months of July and August. I had just gotten a job, and he took the money I needed to pay for my lawyer. Thank God my family stepped in. We were planning on moving back then too. Deja vu? Not this time, I luckily learn from my past mistakes. I don't mention anything about moving anywhere but here.
Now he's moving back to the state? Probably trying to derail our plans to move no doubt. He knows that we hate it here, and will leave first chance we get. They throw very serious financial tantrums at our expense. The deposit will probably be late, again. Which means late fees for me, and less money for my MD's Bday. Does that sound like a plan to anyone? Twisted and crazy, I want no more part of that, thank you very much.
I'm forging ahead to 2017. I don't really give him much thought other than financially to be honest. That's all he is to us these days: a deposit at the beginning of the month. Period. That's all he'll ever be to me from now on. I know that chaos and confusion follow him, and I'm not going to let him disrupt our lives any longer. Besides, if he brings the AD, then they're both running from something. Bringing it up here to my stomping grounds won't help. The need for drama is so passe', and yes, I'm past it.
-
Ok, so today I'm finding that my patience is really being tested.
The XH has decided to relocate back to the area. He will be arriving the day before what would have been our 22nd anniversary on the 20th of this month. MD birthday is on the 29th and he wants to do something with her. She of course doesn't want to have anything to do with with him.
He also been texting me for the last 2 days which is a big no-no. He's supposed to send things through the mail. That's the only way that I will deal with him. And, you guessed it, he won't do that, that sounds too much like telling him what to do.
The divorce decree states NO contact unless regarding the kids. He's been violating that since the day after the divorce hearing, so for me NC has been the last and final boundary that I will not let him violate.
At any rate, now he's texting the girls everyday like he's been here all along. They are just as tired of the BS as I am. So now he's acting like he's coming home. Has he got a surprise in store for him: we aren't interested in playing this game any longer. I'm not sure how the girls are going to respond when he gets here, but he won't be getting one from me on anything that doesn't concern the girls. And even then, it's going to be all written correspondence. Period.
OD's best friend came over to return the house key she had while were away at Christmas, and guess what? The OD still hasn't said anything to even her about XH leaving. Now that's telling. Can you say E&A yet again. Don't even know if the hag is coming with. If she is, this is a small town, and I wouldn't want to be in her shoes. Not in this neck of the woods.
At any rate, he really is pushing to see if I'm going to break NC. Nope, not going to happen. So we'll see if "Monster" comes out again to throw his usual tantrum.
In 15 more days, we'll find out...
-
Hi my3girls, so sorry your XH is definitely moving closer to you. I think they overstep boundaries like texting because they 1. think we should be over it all by now. 2. feel entitled. 3. believe the rules don't apply to them. What does E&A mean?
-
Hi More,
E&A: Escape and Avoid.
-
So now I have to put my money where my mouth is. He's definitely coming back to the states. Not relishing this. I have to admit it was easier to stay NC while he was living elsewhere. This may or may not complicate things. Not sure.
I do know that he's trying to reconnect with the kids, so this is going to probably be an interesting week. He's relocating back to the area this Friday. I don't know what his plans, are. And, quite frankly, I don't care. As long as he leaves me alone, it's all going to go well.
I don't know if the AD is coming with. That could pose a problem with the kids: they hate her. She had been trying to get on their good side. Not an easy task since EX as been a real SOB. Not helping her case at all.
My hope is that he doesn't try to manipulate the kids. That would be a real mistake on his part. They're more savvy now.
Question
Is anyone else out there dealing with a long distance MLCer that has decided to relocate back to their area? Or one that has relocated already? If you're NC or Dim and Dark, how did you handle the situation?
-
Hey my3.
Nice , sorta , to read your intro as l got sick of the same thing and felt l maybe got a bit heavy on my last thread intro but you do get fed up with explaining and almost defending so l'm with you all the way.
l don't think it's surprising at all he wants to move back, obviously time has shown him how bloody stupid he was moving away from his own kids and acting the way he did. Hopefully he even realizes the damage he has done to them and is willing to go through anything now to prove himslef to them again and rebuild their relationship.
l'd give all that a chance and l hope the kids let him in bc they only have one childhood and one dad and to block the way they are is just pure hurt underneath which maybe in time can be salvaged if he proves himself to them again this time.
l really hope he does or l'm coming over to kick his effg ass good.
life in general ,l've been moving on 12 mths or so now myself. Have no interest in R anymore she's just too different and l'm not attracted to her anymore really either, she's not the person l would have stood for 4yrs ago.
Lots of changes in my world. First l moved out the rental l rented after selling our house and over to my little cabin in a tiny town.
That turned out to be a really bizarre experience in itself , in a good way , funny, bc l was dreading it. Only moved over to clear some left over debt and get on my feet last resort.
But l couldn't see my d as much from there , that was bad, but l also learnt how to be alone again , that was good, and l met some great people over there and also got involved with someone new.
l sorta found a peace again , yaknow.
The new one probably isn't gonna work out , various reasons and some biggies that are hard to do much about but it did show us both that life goes on and can even be even better than it was before , lotta fun, so a big lesson there for both of us as she was going through much the same.
So l;ve slowly gotten on my feet and meanwhile d and l were looking at different areas and after 15 mths or so of that l found a new place in a good town and nice and close to d , that we really liked.
So l managed to get that awhile back and moved in 3 or 4 mths ago.
It's a renovator which l love doing , love anything in property and houses and so l've been slowly still getting back on my feet and starting bits and pieces to the place.
love the house , not 100% on the town yet , not sure how much l fit in here but time will tell l guess and hopefully things will pan out.
So that's the main thing goin on right now.
D's been busier than ever so although l'm back close l'm not really seeing her as much as l'd like but she is a teen with a million friends and a new bf so dado's not quite toppa the list right now but that's cool l get it and she knows l'm here , the place is here and just as much hers as mine , she still comes and goes but she's on a huge friend kick right now and with the new bf well , hey l'm good but l'm not that good haha.
No doubt in time she'll get her rhythm back in coming and going as she usually does getting use to a new place.
But in the meantime it gives me time to my own life so l'm playing with the house and getting out and about. Got some free wkends for a change too here and there so that's pretty big.
Bout it for now but as for the future , who knows l guess.
Good luck with everything going on and l hope that dad of theirs repairs some of the damage he's done.
-
Hey Hawk,
It's always good to hear from you, and to know that you're doing well and hanging in there.
I hope he can do the right thing by the girls too. He's been a real horse's *ss to us all. And that's putting it mildly. I just don't get why he wants to come back here. His reputation is trashed, despite the fact that he's not moving back to our town. He has a sister her, but many more relatives in another state. He barely talks to the sister that lives here. Didn't see her much when we were married.
OD is still living on the island and I have no clue why he would leave "the favorite" behind. My guess: he's running again. Strange that he would want to run back to the one place he claimed he hated so much. And, I'm the only other person that he knows here. In the immortal words of Alice of Wonderland: curiousser and curiousser. I'm not wracking my brains too much about it.
I just may take you up on coming over and kicking his effing *ss. Lord knows he deserves it at this point.
I also feel your pain with constantly having to defend and explain my threads. Look no further than the previous posts on this one. But, I digress. I really don't trust him as far as I can throw him, but then again, I don't have to. He needs to work on his relationship with them. I'm just not interested in him in anyway at this point anymore.